Inspiration needed - SWJ town square scene

[SWCAdmin]

So we've often imagined ourselves as the open, unclass, neutral ground akin to a market in a town square at a little Swiss crossroads amongst all the mountain peaks of the various silos of excellence and juggernauts of cloistered brilliance. Now we are very fortunate to have an illustrator who is going to turn that image into a reality.

Now calling for what sort of things should be pictured in there.

We're not really sure if we'll make it very busy with TONS of stuff, a la Where's Waldo?, or we'll distill significantly. But for now, free thinking hats on.

What are the images that depict the essence of small wars and Small Wars Journal? Today and historical.

Examples: (don't bother trying to categorize, I just threw a couple out to make sure we're thinking broadly and uncategorized)


People - Teddy Roosevelt and his rough riders, Petraeus & Crocker, Clausewitz
Activities - voting, MEDCAP, Predator strike
Places / Things - 9/11, Saddam's statue, Gitmo, Algiers
Misc squishy things - justice, 3 block war

We'll be watching this list and culling the ideas for development with the artist. Please fire away.

[slapout9]

John Wayne with his Green Beret!

[jcustis]

-a silhouette of a commander at the end of a handset, running from a radio on a RTO's back
-a silhouette of a corpsman/medic administering aid to a child
-a silhouette or photo of a Marine/soldier playing soccer with LN children, while other troops are conspicuous in the background as overwatch.

[Steve Blair]

-a silhouette of a commander at the end of a handset, running from a radio on a RTO's back
-a silhouette of a corpsman/medic administering aid to a child
-a silhouette or photo of a Marine/soldier playing soccer with LN children, while other troops are conspicuous in the background as overwatch.

I also like the TR idea. Somewhere in the corner you need a copy of the original Small Wars Manual, and maybe a shadow of Old Bill (the mounted trooper done by Remington to show the continuing role of cavalry in the US's small wars).

And Slap, what about a SF guy based loosely on Larry Thorne? Might better capture the international aspect of SW.

[davidbfpo]

A 'terp' helping the infidel, a map upside down and something that shows how weird the real world is. Maybe a Russian-made chopper, in US markings?

[Polarbear1605]

1120How about the cover from the book "The Ordeal of Samar" ...file attached

[slapout9]

-a silhouette of a commander at the end of a handset, running from a radio on a RTO's back


Having been an RTO for a Platoon leader and Company Commander (carried all my gear plus a PRICK 77) I can strongly identify with this one;)

[Kiwigrunt]

A confused wounded UN soldier with an unloaded rifle pointing at his ROE card or COIN manual while locals with cell phones try to penetrate his body armour with spears to finish him off.

With a jet flying overhead…..and a donkey and a Hummer in the distance;)…and a man in a three piece suite with a briefcase standing with his back to it all, lecturing the commander.

[M-A Lagrange]

A confused wounded UN soldier with an unloaded rifle pointing at his ROE card or COIN manual while locals with cell phones try to penetrate his body armour with spears to finish him off.

With a jet flying overhead…..and a donkey and a Hummer in the distance;)…and a man in a three piece suite with a briefcase standing with his back to it all, lecturing the commander.

A confused wounded UN soldier with a stick trying to contain local militia armed with cell phones and AK or RPG and to calm them down by distributing candies.

With an MI8 flying over and a old APC tracked by donkeys and a man in a three piece suite with a briefcase lecturing the commander who is drinking tea and watching cricket in a parade uniform from a powerfull country as swaziland...

That would be more accurate ;)

[Red Rat]

A TV news crew or at least locals shooting footage on their '4G' mobiles!

Not sure how we could illustrate IEDs - perhaps a C-IED team?

Getting Picassoesque perhaps something showing the use and abuse of religious faith in small wars (and large ones too)? A skyline with Christian, Muslim, Hindu and Buddhist temples or one building with aspects of all 4 (or more)?

[William F. Owen]

A sniper scope image with the cross hairs resting on the head of an armed rebel/insurgent - who is kissing his wife and child "good-bye." - literally!
Kill the bad guy. Not his family.

Sorry if that's a bit full on for the all "Oprah Winfrey Way of War" folk so here's a picture to make you feel "fluffy".

http://williamthecoroner.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/idf_soldier_and_kittyimage21.jpg

[Red Rat]

Has George Michael left 'Wham' and joined the IDF? ;)

[Bob's World]

Interesting. Comes back to the question of "what is a small war"?

Grenada, the Falkland Island campaign were both small wars, but very conventional.

Iraq and Afghanistan both large wars, but with a mix of activities. As was WWII and WWI for that matter (uh oh, getting into the equally messy reality that Asymmetric Warfare is nothing new either.}

You could have scenes of Armor and Artillery units rolling up guideons and disbanding; while officers from the same units then migrate to Leavenworth to write manuals on Counterinsurgency and Irregular Warfare, et al.

I guess as good of definition as any is that a small war is one where the populace at home has no real stake as to if the conflict is won or lost, and goes on about its life with business as usual before, during and after; win, lose or draw. Sadly, we can all draw dozens of images of how to picture that.

(and after writing this, realize that once again I have determined that the critical perception is that of the affected populace. "size" is determined by how important the populace thinks the war is, not by number of troops engaged, area covered, casualties incurred, tactics employed, etc, though all contribute to that perception.)

Next post will be from back in Kabul, packing up the computer and getting ready to head out.

[SWCAdmin]

Good stuff. Thanks, all. Keep 'em coming!

[William F. Owen]

Has George Michael left 'Wham' and joined the IDF? ;)
It's now OK to be gay in the IDF - actually has been for quite some time.


Interesting. Comes back to the question of "what is a small war"?
Small Wars is IMO, a very useful term. - as used in the 1906 covering letter to the Imperial General Staff, by C.E. Callwell!
Small war is warfare against irregulars/rebels.
The Falklands was in no way a Small War. May have been over some small Islands, but it was definitely all arms formation combat operations between regular armies.

[Fuchs]

The Falklands was in no way a Small War. May have been over some small Islands, but it was definitely all arms formation combat operations between regular armies.

There weren't enough tanks/AFV present to really call it "all arms".
The UK had iirc a half dozen CVR(T) and the Argentinians had iirc a similar number French-made 4x4 armoured cars that were iirc unable to move up the icy hills during battle.

[selil]

I'm kind of partial to it.

[Bob's World]

The scotch and the Oreos are proven commodities, will be happy to join you for both.

As to the book, I'm not so sure. I'm mentally composing a piece tentatively titled: "Zombie COIN - Why FM 3-24 has no Soul"

("Soul" being an understanding of insurgency itself. Ok, couldn't help myself, still sitting at the airport...)

[slapout9]

Don't know how to put this on a T-Shirt but it is inspirational.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FVrpiG7haE

[Corto]

How about the "I give a #### about your chai!" Guy:
http://www.cnas.org/blogs/abumuqawama/2009/04/i-give-####-about-your-chai-i-care-about-mission.html
To me he sums up the whole deal.

[Entropy]

Here's my vote, which provides a nice alternative to the current SWJ logo :D

http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs585.snc3/30856_126428027372974_118330578182719_351937_61822 1_n.jpg

[slapout9]

There is also a message for the media in there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qv5m4hTMuWU&feature=related

[marct]

The scotch and the Oreos are proven commodities, will be happy to join you for both.

Scotch, yes; Oreos, no. I have to admit, I shudder at the juxtaposition :eek::D!


As to the book, I'm not so sure. I'm mentally composing a piece tentatively titled: "Zombie COIN - Why FM 3-24 has no Soul"

("Soul" being an understanding of insurgency itself. Ok, couldn't help myself, still sitting at the airport...)

Oh, Gods..... GET IT WRITTEN NOW!!!!!!!!! Seriously, Bob, I've already got one of your papers on the required reading list, but I want that!!!!!

Personally, I'd take an image of a trooper, put a media guys on his back, an NGO person on their back, and a politician on top of them and sub-title it "The modern, agile soldier". Then again, I've been told I have a low sense of humour... :confused:.

[MikeF]

Oh, Gods..... GET IT WRITTEN NOW!!!!!!!!! Seriously, Bob, I've already got one of your papers on the required reading list, but I want that!!!!!

Ditto, sir. Why do you think we take the time to critique you? Consider it free editing and peer review.

Preach it Brother Bob. Preach! Pastor done told me that I need some saving on my soul :wry:.

[MikeF]

In Dear John (yes I watched it. If you didn't, then you got your own issues). Anyways, in Dear John, there was a great scene when the Green Beret was patting an indigenous soldier on the shoulder as he was executing a task. I thought that scene summed up small wars perfectly.

[Entropy]

Zombie COIN. Sounds like something in the vein of this book (http://www.amazon.com/Pride-Prejudice-Zombies-Classic-Ultraviolent/dp/1594743347/).

[slapout9]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2x5GVBzMwT8&feature=related

[MikeF]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2x5GVBzMwT8&feature=related

Slap just nailed it.

See first. Understand first. Act first.

Done.

[AdamG]

Zombies?

Those are the little kids with AK-47s and dead eyes...
http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Politics/images-2/afghan-child-with-ak47.jpg

http://www.iansa.org/documents/images/tamba-ak47.jpg

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/pictures/Pictures/pal-child-abuse-16.jpg

Peter Pan he ain't
http://www.fmft.net/African%20Infantryman%20of%20the%20Year%20Liberian %20militias%20child%20soldiers%20AK%2047%20%201.jp g

http://ak47.lanternblog.com/Images/zulu.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_FtuG0ZOGjI4/SaKtRbVMGwI/AAAAAAAAAz8/PiR0nlpu0_o/s320/African+Infantryman+of+the+Year+Liberian+Militiame n+AK+47+Kalashnikov+Child+soldiers+children+soldie rs.jpg

(the one on the right, obviously)
http://www.rfa.org/english/news/burma/children-10032008123736.html/child-soldier

http://images.lightstalkers.org/images/373939/Child_soldier_large.jpg

Notice a theme here?

[Starbuck]

How about something that symbolizes service members, government officials, NGOs and academics working together? Maybe have all four of them circled in a war zone, talking?

[40below]

An image that that symbolizes modern war?
I can't resist:

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f195/minus40/n599384677_1532252_3196357.jpg

(I know McChrystal shut it down, but the KFC is opening and Timmies is still there)

[AdamG]

How about something that symbolizes service members, government officials, NGOs and academics working together? Maybe have all four of them circled in a war zone, talking?

http://iraqslogger.powweb.com/images_full_column/73879985_10.jpg

Heh. :wry:

[Cold Sea]

The Kandahar AFB Burger King is a great idea to include, BK's lawyers might disagree though...so maybe a generic burger sign over the "Swiss town square" somewhere.

I also like the image of all the service members, NGO types, Academics and assorted USG folks together playing poker....

Who should be included in the academics at the epicenter of this piece?
Nagl, Gentile, Kilcullen, Petraeus, Crocker, Exum...

McChrystal? Mattis?
Who else?

[William F. Owen]

I also like the image of all the service members, NGO types, Academics and assorted USG folks together playing poker....

Who should be included in the academics at the epicenter of this piece?
Nagl, Gentile, Kilcullen, Petraeus, Crocker, Exum...

McChrystal? Mattis?
Who else?
It may be interesting to note, that this is the SWJ Town Square Scene, NOT the "New COIN" Town Square. Only Gian Gentile actually participates here and he is not one of the COIN boys. I'm here because most of the views here are very sceptical of COIN.

[Cold Sea]

It may be interesting to note, that this is the SWJ Town Square Scene, NOT the "New COIN" Town Square. Only Gian Gentile actually participates here and he is not one of the COIN boys. I'm here because most of the views here are very sceptical of COIN.

What other COIN skeptics should be included?

[Steve Blair]

Why just fixate on current events? This isn't the SWJ Current Conflicts Town Square, either. Small Wars are timeless in so many ways (and will most likely remain so until Wilf can impose his war dictatorship that only allows major state-on-state refereed events....;)). You could have a bemused member of Marius' Mules resting on his pilum and looking at his modern counterpart (a Marine, perhaps, with his 100lb+ 'combat load'). Behind them could be a member of Mackenzie's Fourth Cavalry kitted out for campaign, and the ubiquitous "Red Coat" fitted for an extended patrol in India or Afghanistan. Scouts and auxiliaries from all eras could be shown brewing coffee around a fire, waiting for the large state troops to get their acts in gear.

The idea of small wars transcends eras, no matter how much doctrinal bickering may currently surround them.

[Cold Sea]

Why just fixate on current events? This isn't the SWJ Current Conflicts Town Square, either. Small Wars are timeless in so many ways ...The idea of small wars transcends eras, no matter how much doctrinal bickering may currently surround them.
Which brings up an interesting point...Should historical figures like Che or Giap be included in this particular illustration?

[Steve Blair]

Giap would be a candidate for sure. Che already has his own t-shirt.

[Corto]

Giap would be a candidate for sure. Che already has his own t-shirt.
Point taken about Che...
But I suppose that the illustration is about counterinsurgents, not insurgents...So I retract my suggestion about Giap. Otherwise the illustration would have to include Mao, Sandino, Aguinaldo, OBL, etc.

[slapout9]

How about the picture of Che on the morgue slab :)it was published in a lot of papers back in the day.

[40below]

How about the picture of Che on the morgue slab :)it was published in a lot of papers back in the day.

Hell, toss in a pic of Prabhakaran on his slab as a bookend to that one.

[William F. Owen]

(and will most likely remain so until Wilf can impose his war dictatorship that only allows major state-on-state refereed events....;)).
Actually the opposite. I'm a Small Wars guy!
Big Wars are extremely scary and dangerous and require actual expertise. You have to be able to command, do logistics and move large numbers of men.

Small Wars has none of that, and they are rarely strategically decisive. I'd rather be crushing rebellions than fighting for anything that actually mattered, against anyone who was actually any good! :eek:

[Backwards Observer]

Rambo: First Blood Part II - The Musical (You Not Expendable)

You Not Expendable (Youtube Link) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzEPKGT-ZYU&feature=player_embedded)

(Hat Tip - Dangerous Minds)

[sabers8th]

Rand Held its COIN Symposium in 1962 could do a round table with Stephen Hosmer facilitating these honorable gentlemen:

Charles T.R. Bohannan, Lieutenant Colonel, AUS-Ret.
Wendell W. Fertig, Colonel, USA-Ret.
David Galula, Lieutenant Colonel (French Marine Corps)
Anthony S. Jeapes, Captain (British Army)
Frank E. Kitson, MBE, MC, Lieutenant Colonel (British Army)
Edward Geary Lansdale, Brigadier General, USAF
Rufus C. Phillips, III
David Leonard Powell-Jones, DSO, OBEY Brigadier General
(British Army)
John R. Shirley, OBE, Colonel (British Army-Ret.)
Napoleon D. Valeriano, Colonel (formerly with the Armed Forces
of the Philippines)
John F. White, Colonel (Royal Australian Army)
Samuel V. Wilson, Lieutenant Colonel, USA

[Corto]

Rand Held its COIN Symposium in 1962 could do a round table with Stephen Hosmer facilitating these honorable gentlemen: ...

They skipped Sir Robert Thompson!

[MikeF]

Rand Held its COIN Symposium in 1962 could do a round table with Stephen Hosmer facilitating these honorable gentlemen:

Charles T.R. Bohannan, Lieutenant Colonel, AUS-Ret.
Wendell W. Fertig, Colonel, USA-Ret.
David Galula, Lieutenant Colonel (French Marine Corps)
Anthony S. Jeapes, Captain (British Army)
Frank E. Kitson, MBE, MC, Lieutenant Colonel (British Army)
Edward Geary Lansdale, Brigadier General, USAF
Rufus C. Phillips, III
David Leonard Powell-Jones, DSO, OBEY Brigadier General
(British Army)
John R. Shirley, OBE, Colonel (British Army-Ret.)
Napoleon D. Valeriano, Colonel (formerly with the Armed Forces
of the Philippines)
John F. White, Colonel (Royal Australian Army)
Samuel V. Wilson, Lieutenant Colonel, USA

Here's the link to the document. The file is rather large, but well worth the read for anyone that wants to be a serious practisioner. As with all Rand products, make sure you click the free download button and not the "pay to play" button.

http://www.rand.org/pubs/reports/R412-1/

[MikeF]

They skipped Sir Robert Thompson!

I think he was deployed to Vietnam during the symposium.

[Cold Sea]

Here's the link to the document. The file is rather large, but well worth the read for anyone that wants to be a serious practisioner. As with all Rand products, make sure you click the free download button and not the "pay to play" button.


Thanks for that link! That's one hell of a meeting of minds...

[MikeF]

Thanks for that link! That's one hell of a meeting of minds...

I just wished that we had transcripts of the private conversations that they had at night at the bars.

[OfTheTroops]

Nicotine
Caffeine
Alcohol

Burlap sacks

Sir Robert Peele

Aldo the Apache

Custer

That damned link/ circle powerpoint descibing COIN

Doctrinal terms on an airport display which change arbitrarily

[Cold Sea]

Doctrinal terms on an airport display which change arbitrarily

Which doctrinal terms are currently in vogue, and which ones are out?

[MikeF]

Nicotine
Caffeine
Alcohol

Burlap sacks

Sir Robert Peele

Aldo the Apache

Custer

That damned link/ circle powerpoint descibing COIN

Doctrinal terms on an airport display which change arbitrarily

Given the time period, I think that you forgot discussions of comparing/contrasting women of ill-repute in various conflict zones.

[Steve Blair]

Nicotine

Custer



He'd be a good example of a small wars failure...

[Infanteer]

I guess as good of definition as any is that a small war is one where the populace at home has no real stake as to if the conflict is won or lost, and goes on about its life with business as usual before, during and after; win, lose or draw. Sadly, we can all draw dozens of images of how to picture that.


Good one - the image for "small wars" could be a soldier fighting in a ditch somewhere with the image of the nation behind him, watching TV or shopping at the mall.

[Starbuck]

Point taken about Che...
But I suppose that the illustration is about counterinsurgents, not insurgents...So I retract my suggestion about Giap. Otherwise the illustration would have to include Mao, Sandino, Aguinaldo, OBL, etc.

I don't know...many service members have an affinity for T.E. Lawrence, and he was definitely the insurgent.

[OfTheTroops]

another success

Von Steuben

Geronimo

BOS is out Warfightin Function in
my knowledge is too limited to keep up
Lotsa buzzwords of course

PPT

[Steve Blair]

Geronimo was of limited utility, though like Che he's good on t-shirts....;)

Of the NA leadership, Red Cloud would be a good choice, as would Cochise or Mangas Coloradas. There's also a slew of Eastern tribes who could toss up some significant leaders.

[OfTheTroops]

Geronimo as a figurehead for an essentially leaderless organization would be good on Tshirts but the decentralized org is the essential part to SWJ crossroads. Starfish (http://www.starfishandspider.com/preview/18.html)

[Steve Blair]

Geronimo as a figurehead for an essentially leaderless organization would be good on Tshirts but the decentralized org is the essential part to SWJ crossroads. Starfish (http://www.starfishandspider.com/preview/18.html)

I get that, but Geronimo was actually disliked by many he was supposedly leading and was overall a much less effective leader than Juh, for example. And he doesn't come close to either Cochise or Mangas.

NA tribal groups in general, and the Apache in particular, are better thought of as very loose clan alliances than any sort of decentralized organization (especially during the 1800s).

[OfTheTroops]

I am definitely not the expert there. I think we agree but are not very agreeable a least I am not lol

[M-A Lagrange]

Good one - the image for "small wars" could be a soldier fighting in a ditch somewhere with the image of the nation behind him, watching TV or shopping at the mall.

This reminds me a picture I saw few month ago. It was taken in a marines barraks in A-stan. You could se a guy preparing to go for patrol and a board. On the board it was written: the marines are at war while the nation is shopping at the mall...

[sabers8th]

I think out of all those people I mentioned, MG (RET) Tony Jeapes is the only one still alive besides Dr Hosmer. He did write a excellent book SAS Secret War about his time in Oman, I was lucky enough to correspond with him via email a very generous and insightful man.

Kelly