Mystery missile contrail stumps Pentagon

[AdamG]

W T F, over?


WASHINGTON — The US military has so far been unable to explain an apparent missile contrail off the coast of California and is still trying to determine its cause, a Pentagon spokesman said Tuesday.

KCBS television caught the long exhaust plume on camera as it arced into the evening sky west of Los Angeles on Monday night, sparking reports of a missile launch.


http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5ilG0xDsK33UKZD05iITbXdoXDuPA?docId=CNG.2c86b e75efb5b458889a3e6981673a8d.2f1

See also
http://www.cbs8.com/global/category.asp?c=155799&clipId=&topVideoCatNo=149659&topVideoCatNoB=155712&topVideoCatNoC=155713&topVideoCatNoD=155710&topVideoCatNoE=155711&autoStart=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=5274555&flvUri=&partnerclipid=

[Entropy]

Probably not a missile. (http://uncinus.wordpress.com/2010/11/09/4/#more-440)

[AdamG]

Reasonable explanation, but it should have taken less than an hour for the FAA to whip out the flight plan of whatever aircraft was on that vector - as seen from the angle of the film.

Right?


*
If we're playing "Most Likely/Most Dangerous", here's something asymmetrical to think about...
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/aug/07/threat-of-scud-attacks-a-reality/

[slapout9]

Reasonable explanation, but it should have taken less than an hour for the FAA to whip out the flight plan of whatever aircraft was on that vector - as seen from the angle of the film.

Right?


*
If we're playing "Most Likely/Most Dangerous", here's something asymmetrical to think about...
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/aug/07/threat-of-scud-attacks-a-reality/

AdamG,that is interesting because "IF" it is a missile it seems to act more like a solid fuel rocket than some type of a sub launched missile as the media say may have happened. Could very well be contrails too.

[Entropy]

Reasonable explanation, but it should have taken less than an hour for the FAA to whip out the flight plan of whatever aircraft was on that vector - as seen from the angle of the film.

Right?



Probably, assuming they have the correct time for the sighting.

You can actually track aircraft live (http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KLAX) and you can see there are always a lot of flights heading toward LAX from the Pacific. Historic data is available if one is willing to pay.

[AdamG]

Probably, assuming they have the correct time for the sighting..

One would think that a minion of the Pentagon would have been all over this like the proverbial white-on-rice in the first hour : if a layman such as I can point out 1) the hard position, bearing and time of the observer (KCBS TV helicopter crew, time marked digital tape) and 2) the database of all flights (from your aforementioned FAA database) within +/- 5 degrees of the observers' camera bearing , match target's travel vector (from point first observed to where it leaves the film frame) to one of the FAA radar tracks and it'd be real simple to say "Oh, that was Flight XXX from XXXX".*

Failure to do so has left the folks responsible for Pax Americana's perimeter security looking like smacked asses.

* Yes, I've done this before - with surface vessels. Made the E4 RTO put down his undergrad coursebook and work up the math, just to make life interesting in the TOC.

*
What the spot reports probably sounded like -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiWQZhUmmRw

[carl]

The reference cited by Entropy states that an aircraft would have taken 12-15 minutes to lay a contrail like that. If it was a missile it would have taken much less time to lay a smoke trail like that. Does anybody know how long the video in question was?

[bourbon]

Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

http://www.collider.com/uploads/imageGallery/Men_in_Black/men_in_black_movie_image_tommy_lee_jones_and_will_ smith.jpg

[Stan]

Entropy, great links with math to boot. Nothing like logic to dispel rumor and flawed intel :D

It was only a matter of time before this missile thread got hijacked but Bourbon has beat me to it :mad:

This video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZMwKPmsbWE) should at the very least clear any misconceptions about nuclear war and what happens to California :cool:

Regards, Stan

[AdamG]

Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.


Your scientists have yet to discover how neural networks create self-consciousness, let alone how the human brain processes two-dimensional retinal images into the three-dimensional phenomenon known as perception. Yet you somehow brazenly declare seeing is believing? Your scientific illiteracy makes me shudder, and I wouldn't flaunt your ignorance by telling anyone that you saw anything last night other than the planet Venus, because if you do, you're a dead man.

http://www.wearysloth.com/Gallery/ActorsV/tve17613-00000320-372.gif[/QUOTE]




Entropy, great links with math to boot. Nothing like logic to dispel rumor and flawed intel :D

Declaring a problem solved without providing an answer is a Pentagon trick. :D

Video of object's contrail starts about about 0.28 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AMdHBgHtNE

Oh yeah, definitely a Southwest Air commuter... if it has two wings shorn off and is defying gravity. 'Zippy' is a good description, don't you think?


It was only a matter of time before this missile thread got hijacked but Bourbon has beat me to it :mad:
Regards, Stan

Scroll up to Post #6, this was already self-hijacked <pinky to lips>

Meanwhile, Pentagon thumbs remain firmly lodged in their third points of contact.
http://www.nationaljournal.com/nationalsecurity/mystery-missile-pentagon-has-no-reason-to-believe-it-20101110

*


When someone makes an unannounced launch what looks to be a ballistic missile 35 miles from the nations second largest city (at sea in international waters), and 18 hours later NORAD still doesn't have any answers at all - that complete lack of information represents a credible threat to national security. If NORAD can't answer the first and last question, then I believe it is time to question every single penny of ballistic missile defense funding in the defense budget. NORTHCOM needs to start talking about what they do know, rather than leaving the focus on what they don't know.

- naval analyst Raymond Pritchett

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/11/video-catches-mystery-missile-launching-near-l-a/

[Stan]

Hey Adam,



Declaring a problem solved without providing an answer is a Pentagon trick. :D

Yep, had 23 years of practice doing the dance :p


Video of object's contrail starts about about 0.28 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AMdHBgHtNE

Oh yeah, definitely a Southwest Air commuter... if it has two wings shorn off and is defying gravity. 'Zippy' is a good description, don't you think?

Thanks for the video. I gotta tell ya the Russian rocket scientist with the "ballistic missile launched from a sub" was a real nice touch :D

This is good too !


All DoD entities with rocket and missile programs reported no launches scheduled or inadvertent, during the time period in the area of the reported contrail...

Regards, Stan

[AdamG]

KZLA LOS ANGELES A2832/10 - THE FOLLOWING RESTRICTIONS ARE REQUIRED DUE TO NAVAL AIR WARFARE CENTER WEAPONS DIVISION ACTIVATION OF W537. IN THE INTEREST OF SAFETY, ALL NON-PARTICIPATING PILOTS ARE ADVISED TO AVOID W537. IFR TRAFFIC UNDER ATC JURISDICTION SHOULD ANTICIPATE CLEARANCE AROUND W537 AND CAE 1176. CAE 1155 WILL NOT BE AVAILABLE FOR OCEANIC TRANSITION. CAE 1316 & CAE 1318 WILL NOT BE AVAILABLE FOR OCEANIC TRANSITION. CAE 1177 WILL BE AVAILABLE FOR OCEANIC TRANSITION. W537 ACTIVE, CAE 1176 CLOSED. SURFACE - FL390, 09 NOV 20:00 2010 UNTIL 10 NOV 01:00 2010. CREATED: 08 NOV 20:52 2010

NOTAM was supposed to start three hours after the plume was seen (reported as @ 17.00 Pacific).


Marc Ambinder, who is an encyclopedia of how the government works, thinks it could be a a spy satellite. He tweets: When launching spy satellites, opsec = timing of launch... post-launch cover story can be weak.
So, basically, it could have been an impromptu satellite launch.
http://www.businessinsider.com/was-the-mystery-missile-actually-a-spy-satellite-2010-11#ixzz14tGttNAf

[Fuchs]

AdamG,that is interesting because "IF" it is a missile it seems to act more like a solid fuel rocket than some type of a sub launched missile as the media say may have happened.

Many SLBMs have solid fuel rocket engines. It's safer and more durable.

[slapout9]

Many SLBMs have solid fuel rocket engines. It's safer and more durable.

We were talking about SCUD's


I think this guy did it:D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9uPv3x2eDo

[Entropy]

Personally, I like Jeffrey Lewis' translation of the DoD statement (http://lewis.armscontrolwonk.com/archive/3136/it-aint-no-thing):


I should render this statement in English:

DOD: “While there is nothing at this time that leads the Department of Defense to believe this is a missile launch …”

English: It wasn’t a missile.

DOD: … the department and other US government agencies with expertise in aviation and space continue to look into the condensation trail (CONTRAIL) seen and reported off the coast of southern California on Monday evening.”

English: But we will take this very, very seriously because we are professionals. After work, however, over a beer, we might use the term “nutjob that doesn’t know a jet contrail from his ass on fire.”

DOD: “All DoD entities with rocket and missile programs reported no launches, scheduled or inadvertent, during the time period in the area of the reported contrail.”

English: Look, we didn’t launch anything.

DOD: NORAD and USNORTHCOM confirmed that it did not monitor any foreign military missile launch off the California coast yesterday …

English: Nor did we see anyone else launch anything.

DOD: and has determined that there was no threat to the US homeland.

English: Did we mention that we are taking this very, very seriously because we are professionals? At least until we get to the bar?

DOD: In addition, the FAA ran radar replays from Monday afternoon of a large area west of Los Angeles. Those replays did not reveal any fast-moving, unidentified targets.

English: Don’t you think it is odd that the FAA radars only show airplanes?

DOD: The FAA also did not receive reports of any unusual sightings from pilots who were flying in the area Monday afternoon.

English: Or that no one else, other than the helicopter crew, say anything but airplanes?

DOD: “If any new information comes to light in the coming days, we will update the press and public.”

English: Time for that beer.

[CloseDanger]

NOTAM was supposed to start three hours after the plume was seen (reported as @ 17.00 Pacific).


Not if, as I suspect, they use Zulu (UTC) time. ;)

[AdamG]

But Doug Richardson, the editor of Jane’s Missiles and Rockets, examined the video for the Times of London and said he was left with little doubt.

"It’s a solid propellant missile," he told the Times. "You can tell from the efflux [smoke]."

Richardson said it could have been a ballistic missile launched from a submarine or an interceptor, the defensive anti-missile weapon used by Navy surface ships.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/10/earlyshow/main7040379.shtml

[slapout9]

If it was an intentional launch of a missile.....then why was it done? What is the message and who is it for?

[Tom Odom]

it could have been an impromptu satellite launch.

Is this the missile equivalent of stand-up comedy?

Who launches satellites on an impromptu basis?

Serge, the Rodeo Drive Designer Rocketman?

"oooh you look like a big payload guy with lots of thrust..."

[CloseDanger]

Just to let the international community know we are still alive and kicking over here. (Pacific Coherence)

[Entropy]

Serge, the Rodeo Drive Designer Rocketman?

"oooh you look like a big payload guy with lots of thrust..."

I think I just found next year's Halloween costume! :D

[slapout9]

Serge, the Swiss Rocket Man:)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-oQ--U-WaQ

[AdamG]

T'was the Pleadians.
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/11/09/pleideans-shot-down.html
:eek:
Possible MILF, but too crazy to even contemplate tagging.

[slapout9]

T'was the Pleadians.
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/11/09/pleideans-shot-down.html
:eek:
Possible MILF, but too crazy to even contemplate tagging.

Alrighty than, you solved that mystery. 2 questions....what does MILF stand for and who are the Pleadians?

[Entropy]

Slap,

Milf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MILF)

Pleiedians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleiadeans)

[slapout9]

Entropy,
really is amzing what you can at this site:D

[AdamG]

Ok, so it wasn't the Pleadians. It was a Chinese Navy Jin class ballistic missile nuclear submarine, deployed secretly from its underground home base on the south coast of Hainan island, that launched an intercontinental ballistic missile from international waters off the southern California coast.
http://www.infowars.com/wayne-madsen-china-fired-missile-seen-in-southern-california/
:confused: Maybe with Pleadian Navy advisers onboard?


Wayne Madsen is a Washington, DC-based investigative journalist, author and syndicated columnist. He has written for several renowned papers and blogs.

Madsen is a regular contributor on Russia Today. He has been a frequent political and national security commentator on Fox News and has also appeared on ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, CNN, BBC, Al Jazeera, and MS-NBC. Madsen has taken on Bill O’Reilly and Sean Hannity on their television shows. He has been invited to testifty as a witness before the US House of Representatives, the UN Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda, and an terrorism investigation panel of the French government.

As a U.S. Naval Officer, he managed one of the first computer security programs for the U.S. Navy. He subsequently worked for the National Security Agency, the Naval Data Automation Command, Department of State, RCA Corporation, and Computer Sciences Corporation.
http://schema-root.org/people/career/journalists/wayne_madsen/

[slapout9]

Interesting story but seems awfully risky for China to do something like that, with nothing really being achieved by that action. Still seems strange that the Pentagon has not figured out what it was, except to say it was not a threat.:confused:

[Entropy]

Adam,

That article is so bad I don't know where to begin.

Anyway, the guy on the helicopter that shot the original video said he filmed the "missile" for about 10 minutes. Now let's consider that it takes less than 10 minutes for a missile or even the Space Shuttle to reach orbit. Standing on the ground, you usually can't see the missile at all after 2-3 minutes because it's already gone below the horizon.

Compare the news video to an actual rocket launch under similar lighting conditions (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZP91I5v18Do).

In short the only way it could be a rocket is if it was one built by the Pleiedians and if they've given their technology to the Chinese, we might as well pack it in right now.

[AdamG]

Adam,
That article is so bad I don't know where to begin. .

Exactly why I posted it - if I had to read that gibbering mess, I'm going to share the misery.

I recommend a good Rye as an eye-bleach/brain-wash.

[carl]

Anyway, the guy on the helicopter that shot the original video said he filmed the "missile" for about 10 minutes. Now let's consider that it takes less than 10 minutes for a missile or even the Space Shuttle to reach orbit. Standing on the ground, you usually can't see the missile at all after 2-3 minutes because it's already gone below the horizon.

Thank you Entropy. This is the first time I've read anything about how long it took to lay the trail. Now I know it twas an airplane and twernt a missile.

[AdamG]

http://msi.nga.mil/MSISiteContent/StaticFiles/NAV_PUBS/UNTM/201045/NtM_45-2010.pdf


"Intermittent missile firing operations 00001Z to 2359Z daily Monday thru Sunday in the Naval Air Warfare Center Sea Range," the warning said. "The majority of missile firings take place 1400Z to 2359Z and 0001Z to 0200Z daily Monday thru Friday."

Via (I know, I know...)
http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=235013

The 2010 Grassy Knoll.

[Entropy]

I suppose the author couldn't be bothered to query the NGA database, where he'd discover that that particular notam is reissued weekly and has been for at least a few years. In other words, that notam is in effect continuously.

[Ken White]

How much fun would that be... :D