View Full Version : Turkey: what is going on?
Jedburgh
04-11-2007, 03:44 PM
Moderator's Note
This thread has been renamed from 'WTF News Network : Turkish Senior Ranks' mass resignation/retirement' to 'Turkey: politicians and generals - what is going on?' In October 2015 the thread was renamed from Turkey: politicians and generals - what is going on? - to Turkey: what is going on? A small number of older threads and SWJ pieces were merged in.
A thread 2008-2009 called 'Secularism and Foreign Policy in Turkey', which contains background to the latest issues has now been merged into this thread.
In mid-2016 there was a separate thread on the attempted military coup, with 21,7k views and this has now (February 2017) been merged into this thread.(Ends).
WINEP Policy Focus, Apr 07:
Secularism and Foreign Policy in Turkey: New Elections, Troubling Trends (http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/download.php?file=PolicyFocus67.pdf)
Turkey is often said to offer a counter-example to every cliché regarding Muslim majority countries and the Middle East. For starters, the country has been westernizing since the days of the Ottoman Empire. Second, Turkey has been staunchly secular since the interwar-era reforms initiated by its founding president, Mustafa Kemal Ataturk. Third, Turkey has been a multiparty democracy since 1950. And last but not least, Turkey has maintained a pro-Western political orientation since the end of the World War II...
...The United States should be concerned about the AKP domination of Turkish politics because the AKP’s erosion of the secular Turkish weltanschauung is weakening the country’s pro-Western foreign policy orientation. Is the Turkish democracy strong enough to face the AKP beyond 2007? Will Turkey’s secularism and Western orientation prove resilient under this party’s leadership? What are the AKP’s stakes in the 2007 elections, and who are likely challengers to the party? Last but not least, what are the implications of this fateful period for U.S. policy, and what should the United States do to maintain Turkey’s pro-Western foreign policy orientation?....
Tom Odom
04-11-2007, 04:53 PM
thanks mate
Good report in most regards. Interesting in all.
As WINEP paper I was not surprised that anti-Israel was equated to anti-Semitic and then tied to anti-American. While the 3 can be related they are not defined as such.
Tom
Old Eagle
04-11-2007, 06:13 PM
Others of you may know better, but the conventional wisdom has always been that the Turkish military is the keeper of secularism. Whenever politics strayed too far from center, the military would stage a coup, impose a government and "do over". The last coup was around 1980, so there is a theory that events are overdue.
Although only anecdotal, my recent contact with Turkish officers seems to indicate a drift in the pro-clerical direction (from earlier datapoints in the 70s and 80s). If the officer corps, the bastion of secularism, becomes more religiously oriented, what might follow? Any other insights?
Likewise, as TIME mag was seeking its "Man of the Century" for the 20th century and asked for e-mail input, Turkish "voters" overwhelmed the tabulators with votes for Ataturk. Of course, TIME does not operate a democracy and Ataturk was not selected. Given the current tension between Islamic countries and organizations and "the west", maybe he should have been. A successful secular Muslim state. Hmmm.
The BBC posted this interesting counterpoint to the study about the Islamist shift in Turkey
Turks argue over next president
By Sarah Rainsford
BBC News, Ankara
Mr Erdogan has denied pushing a pro-Islam agenda
The Turkish parliament has begun the process of electing a new president, in what is already proving a highly controversial contest.
More than 300,000 people took to the streets of the capital at the weekend to pressure Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan not to stand.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6558967.stm
goesh
04-18-2007, 12:30 PM
I doubt the Kurds will be sacrificed to bolster Turkey's historical pro-West policy orientation. I thought all along that when Turkey refused to let the 3rd ID embark from its soil into Iraq from the north during the invasion the problems were just starting. A precursor to a more Islamic military orientation I would guess. From other posts it almost appears as if Turkey and Iran are in bed togather over the Kurds.
tequila
04-18-2007, 12:42 PM
Zaman notes that this latest presser should be viewed in context (http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=108270)with revelations that the military may have planned a coup against the AKP government in 2004, as well as the possibility that Erdogan may declare for President soon.
Ten years ago, the Turkish Armed Forces organized a series of press conferences to undermine --successfully as it turned out -- the religious-right and center-right coalition government of Necmettin Erbakan and Tansu Çiller. The military delivered a series of orchestrated criticisms of its own government -- then forced the Cabinet to sign what amounted to a loyalty pledge, a strategy that waggish pundits at the time labeled “the post-modern coup.” This time Gen. Büyükanıt seemed determined to deconstruct not his own government but its uneasy coalition with the government of George W. Bush.
...
In many ways the general’s speech seemed less a foray into the political arena than an attempt to re-polish the military’s image -- tarnished after another leaked news story that senior commanders had seriously considered staging a coup in 2004. There was no record or even a trace of such a plot in the military archives, Gen. Büyükanıt said. He knew, because he had looked.
And for the grand finale. What would the military do if Tayyip Erdoğan succeeded in having himself appointed president and thus military commander-in-chief? He didn’t actually pose the rhetorical question. He did say he knew the procedure for selecting a president was laid out formally in the Constitution but that it was certainly his hope that the new president would not simply pay lip service to the secular nature of the republic but respect its very core.
Eurasianet's analysis of the demo (http://www.eurasianet.org/departments/insight/articles/eav041607final.shtml).
The organizer of the April 14 march was an NGO chaired by a retired military police chief rumored to have led two coup attempts against the government in 2004. That link encouraged many to stay away – one prominent intellectual even compared the protest to the march on Rome that brought Mussolini to power in 1922.
Many of the Ankara protesters had nothing to do with either the organizing NGO, or Turkey’s head opposition party, whose leader occasionally makes veiled calls for military intervention. Yet there was something evocative of the tumultuous 1920s about the rally. Ubiquitous images of Ataturk, who died in 1938, contributed to that, as did the participants’ defiant rhetoric. It’s clear that present-day partisans of Turkey’s secularist tradition see themselves as on the frontlines of a culture war over the future direction of the state.
...
"We are today’s mad Turks", schoolteacher Hasan Devecioglu said approvingly, as a speaker on the platform called for the "imperialist" International Monetary Fund, the US and the EU to "get your hands off Turkey."
He was referring to a fictionalized retelling of the Kemalist version of Turkey’s liberation struggle that has barely left best-seller lists since it was published in 2005. The success of Turgut Ozakman’s "Those Mad Turks" stems largely from the fact many Turks see parallels between the dying days of the Ottoman Empire and today.
After the First World War, while the Sultan and his Istanbul government collaborated with British occupation forces, Turkish nationalists prepared to fight from the depths of Anatolia. Today, increasingly anti-Western secularists think, the collaborators are the AKP and the invaders are Brussels and Washington.
tequila
04-24-2007, 12:28 PM
Erdogan declines (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6587061.stm)to run for Turkish presidency.
The interesting question that comes to my mind is whether his alternative, Gul, is just a proxy/figurehead. They both are allegedly Islamists/Islamic fundamentalists; each man's wife is known for wearing the head scarf.
I imagine there is some interesting talk around the chey house tavla boards.
tequila
04-24-2007, 05:10 PM
NYTIMES report (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/24/world/europe/24cnd-turkey.html?hp).
Turkey’s majority political party today chose a prominent leader with an Islamic background to compete for the presidency, a move expected to extend the party’s reach into the heart of Turkey’s secular establishment — and boost a new class of self-described Muslim moderates — for the first time in this country’s history.
The choice of Abdullah Gul, 56, the affable, English-speaking foreign minister who is Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s closest political ally, is expected to be confirmed by parliament in several rounds of voting that begin on Friday.
Turkey is a Muslim country, but its state, set up in 1923 by Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, is strictly secular, and the presidency is its most important office. The selection of Mr. Gul, whose wife wears a head scarf, is not likely to sit well with secular Turks, some of whom worry that their lifestyles — drinking alcohol, wearing miniskirts, and swimming in co-ed pools — could eventually be in danger.
Mr. Gul, an agile reformer who has long been his party’s public face abroad, nodded to those concerns in a press conference in Ankara after his nomination today, saying, “Our differences are our richness.” His candidacy was a minor concession. The choice most distasteful to the secular establishment was Mr. Erdogan himself, who deftly bowed out.
...
“These are the new forces, the new social powers,” said Ali Bulac, a columnist for a conservative, mainstream newspaper in Istanbul. “They are very devout. They don’t drink. They don’t gamble. They don’t take holidays.”
“They are loaded with a huge energy.” he added. “This energy has been blocked by the state.”
That energy has helped drive a spectacular economic boom in Turkey. In the country’s two largest cities, progress dazzles. Shiny new fuel-efficient taxis zip down tulip-lined streets. New parks have opened. The air is no longer polluted. The economy has doubled in size in the four years since the AK party came to power, a growth spurt that was kept on track by its strict adherence to an economic program prescribed by the International Monetary Fund ...
This picture of an AK Party rally surprised me. Not many Arab Islamists feature female background dancers.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/04/25/world/600-turkey.jpg
goesh
06-08-2007, 04:53 PM
taken from: adkronosinternational: 6/8/08:
"TURKEY: CENTRE RIGHT MOTHERLAND PARTY QUITS ELECTIONS
Istanbul, 8 June (AKI) -
......
Also on Friday, Turkey's Electorate Council, the body which regulates the elections, vetoed the candidature of thee ethnic Kurdish candidates - Orhan Dogan, Selim Sadak and Hatip Dicle - accusing them of of extremism. The three, all former members of the defunct Kurdish-rights Democracy Party (DEP) - banned by the authorities for its perceived extremism - had planned to run as independents."
SWJED
07-23-2007, 08:42 AM
23 July LA Times - Turkey's Ruling Party Wins Big in Parliamentary Elections (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-turkelect23jul23,1,598229.story?coll=la-headlines-world) by Laura King.
Voters Sunday handed Turkey's Islamist-influenced ruling party a decisive victory in parliamentary elections, rewarding it for stewardship of the country's robust economy but raising the specter of bitter new quarrels over the feared erosion of Turkey's secular traditions.
With 99% of the votes counted, the Justice and Development Party, known by its Turkish initials AKP, garnered about 47% of the vote, according to unofficial results — a substantial increase over the 34% it received in elections five years ago when it came to power.
The vote could have far-reaching consequences for Turkey's engagement with the West, including its drive to become the first Muslim-dominated country to join the European Union. Though secularist parties have been cool to that idea, the AKP has vowed to press ahead with the bid despite early rebuffs...
19 July BBC - Two Faces of Modern Turkey (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6906010.stm).
Jedburgh
10-12-2007, 02:52 PM
The Jamestown Foundation's Eurasia Monitor, 12 Oct 07:
ECHR Ruling Highlights Discrimination Suffered by Turkey's Alevi Minority (http://www.jamestown.org/edm/article.php?article_id=2372499)
The October 9 ruling by the European Court of Human Rights (http://cmiskp.echr.coe.int/tkp197/view.asp?item=1&portal=hbkm&action=html&highlight=1448/04&sessionid=2630051&skin=hudoc-pr-fr) (ECHR), stating that compulsory religious instruction in Turkey violates the rights of religious minorities, has highlighted the discrimination suffered by the country’s substantial Alevi community (Aksam (http://www.aksam.com.tr/), Milliyet (http://www.milliyet.com.tr/), Radikal (http://www.radikal.com.tr/), October 10)....
....Alevis have traditionally been regarded with suspicion by Turkey’s Sunni Muslim majority and suffered both discrimination and occasional pogroms. In July 1993 37 people were killed when a Sunni Muslim mob set fire to a hotel in the Anatolian city of Sivas that was hosting an Alevi cultural festival. Although it fielded a few token Alevi candidates in the July 22 general election, Turkey’s ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP) is an almost exclusively Sunni Muslim . Both publicly and privately, leading AKP members have frequently refused to recognize Alevism as a distinct religious tradition, regarding Alevis as renegade Sunnis rather than having an identity in their own right. In September 2005, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan publicly dismissed Alevism as a culture rather than a religion and said that the only place for prayer was a mosque.....
My wife is an Alevi Kurd from the eastern part of Sivas province in Turkey (right up against the border with Erzincan province, for those who care about such matters). We actually stayed at that very hotel in Sivas not a week prior to the incident.
The article actually puts it pretty mildly. Among many Sunni Turks there is a real depth of prejudice and bigotry against those who are known to be Alevis in Turkey, and many nasty myths spread around about them in the country. The one that really angers the Alevis is the one about "mum söndü" (the candle went out) - Some Sunni Turks like to relate that the Alevi have a ceremony where they gather together in the evening, they put out the candles, and then engage in incestuous and adulterous orgies. In the culture, this goes beyond being an extreme insult, the tale debasing Alevi family and personal honor.
A pretty notable piece written for the Brookings Institute here (http://www.brookings.edu/articles/2005/1116turkey_taspinar.aspx). While posted in November 2005, it has a lot of explantory power IMO.
Today, more than two years after the invasion of Iraq, Turkey has yet to lose its potential to disappoint Washington. As the second Bush administration is stepping up its profreedom rhetoric in the Middle East, it is quite disconcerting that the most democratic Muslim country in the region shows no signs of solidarity with the United States. Quite the opposite, Turkey is often in the news for its rampant anti-Americanism and solidarity with Bashar's Syria. Polls after polls confirm that growing numbers of Turks perceive their NATO ally more as a national security threat, rather than a strategic partner. One of the flashiest symptoms of Turkish distrust towards the United States is the best-selling novel in the country, which depicts a Turkish-American war over Kirkuk in northern Iraq.
What went wrong? Why has Turkey become the most anti-American country in the West? One needs to go beyond the generic and global phenomenon of Bush-bashing in order to fully grasp the dynamics behind Turkish anti-Americanism. In many ways, Turkey is a sui-generis case. Recent polls illustrate that while anti-Americanism is in relative decline in Europe, the trend in Turkey is in the opposite direction. Moreover, unlike past domestic trends, the current wave of anti-Americanism in Turkey seems to be embraced by all segments of Turkish society. For all these reasons, the Turkish case needs to be analyzed in a historical and comparative perspective. This essay is an attempt to do so.
goesh
10-23-2007, 11:39 AM
If the Turks want Islam to be a cornerstone of their strategic thinking, fine, so be it. It's a hell of alot easier to tighten our bond with the Kurds than it is to put up with their BS. Turkey has yet to be punished for their refusal to allow the 3rd ID to roll South out of Turkey during the invasion after so much logistical energy and money was expended on said plan. That cost us some lives and treasure and they need to look closer at Afghan and truly see what comes across the Paki border to wreak havoc and see the same dynamic on their Southern flank waiting to explode up their Turkish a**es.
tequila
10-23-2007, 12:28 PM
If the Turks want Islam to be a cornerstone of their strategic thinking, fine, so be it.
Actually it is the secular nationalist parties and the avowedly secular military which are most eager to smash the Kurds. The Turkish Islamists are generally seen by the secularists as far too pro-Kurdish and pro-American, as seen in this editorial (http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=83784).
It's a hell of alot easier to tighten our bond with the Kurds than it is to put up with their BS. Turkey has yet to be punished for their refusal to allow the 3rd ID to roll South out of Turkey during the invasion after so much logistical energy and money was expended on said plan. That cost us some lives and treasure and they need to look closer at Afghan and truly see what comes across the Paki border to wreak havoc and see the same dynamic on their Southern flank waiting to explode up their Turkish a**es.
As far as value as allies go, I think throwing over the Turks for the KRG has about as much strategic value as jettisoning Britain in return for Ireland.
Ken White
10-23-2007, 04:27 PM
What am I missing?
tequila
10-23-2007, 04:52 PM
The second quote is from Goesh, not the editorial.
The linked editorial, to clarify, is from a secularist/Kemalist newspaper, where the writer basically says that Turks can't get too upset about the Armenian genocide vote in Congress or the PKK terrorists because they elected the AKP, the Islamist party, which is soft on Armenians, Americans, and Kurds. If they really wanted to be respected on either issue, they should have elected the secularists.
Ken White
10-23-2007, 07:00 PM
but I was obviously operating in the disconnected mode... :o
goesh
10-24-2007, 03:38 AM
I am only suggesting they be shown some serious disrespect. This Armenian debate business is a polite slap with a glove on. They are much like dogs in the proverbial manger. Their old animosity towards the Kurds appears to have blinded them and they could not see much beyond the inevitable Kurdish gain they knew would accompany the toppling of Saddam Hussein, so they sat smug and complacent forbidding the 3rd ID their Northern egress after assurances had been given. They will sit smug and complacent when the sparks fly in Iran, and they will fly there, in part because they share Kurdish animosity with the Persians. This to me is the Islamic imprint on strategic thinking that is creeping in on them, nothing more. When the 'all seeing eye' casting its rays from DC focuses on Iran and necessarily must exploit what the Kurds can provide against Iran, we can hardly then expect the Kurds to stay on a leash when it comes to settling old scores with Turkey.
tequila
10-24-2007, 08:47 AM
I am only suggesting they be shown some serious disrespect. This Armenian debate business is a polite slap with a glove on. They are much like dogs in the proverbial manger. Their old animosity towards the Kurds appears to have blinded them and they could not see much beyond the inevitable Kurdish gain they knew would accompany the toppling of Saddam Hussein, so they sat smug and complacent forbidding the 3rd ID their Northern egress after assurances had been given.
Do you think disrespecting a proud ally is a good way to make them do what you want them to do? Sounds like an excellent way to convince them that your friendship isn't worth anything at all and that perhaps they should find better allies, like the Chinese or the Iranians. If you read the Turkish press, you'll find that many Turks already think like this due to reports of American weapons and advisors in PKK camps.
They will sit smug and complacent when the sparks fly in Iran, and they will fly there, in part because they share Kurdish animosity with the Persians. This to me is the Islamic imprint on strategic thinking that is creeping in on them, nothing more.
You're going to have to decipher this one for me, I have no idea what you mean here.
SWJED
02-27-2008, 12:23 AM
While not exactly an Islamic Reformation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Reformation) the BBC is reporting (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7264903.stm) that Turkey is preparing to publish a document that represents a revolutionary reinterpretation of Islam - and a controversial and radical modernisation of the religion.
The country's powerful Department of Religious Affairs has commissioned a team of theologians at Ankara University to carry out a fundamental revision of the Hadith, the second most sacred text in Islam after the Koran.
The Hadith is a collection of thousands of sayings reputed to come from the Prophet Muhammad.
As such, it is the principal guide for Muslims in interpreting the Koran and the source of the vast majority of Islamic law, or Sharia...
Surferbeetle
04-21-2008, 10:37 PM
From today's Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aGtJGf29G29c&refer=home) news
Turkey is playing hardball in the geopolitical struggle over an $8 billion pipeline at the center of Europe's efforts to cut dependence on Russian natural gas.
The nation, which bridges Europe and Central Asia, is trying to profit from its strategic location and become a key part of Europe's energy plan. This might bolster its push to join the European Union -- if its negotiating tactics don't exhaust Europe's patience.
Europe wants Turkey to be a transit corridor along the Nabucco pipeline's 3,300-kilometer (2,062-mile) route from the Caspian Sea region to Austria. Turkey wants more control: acting as a regional energy hub, collecting gas from the east, buying some domestically at below-market prices and passing on the rest to Europe for a variable fee.
In January 2006, Nabucco catapulted to the top of the EU's agenda after Russia briefly cut gas deliveries to Ukraine over a price dispute, blocking flows to Europe. Although Nabucco's capacity of 31 billion cubic meters would account for only 5 percent of the EU's 2020 gas needs, it would provide competition and may help lower prices, the EU says.
``The Nabucco pipeline is a clear economic and political necessity,'' said EU Energy Commissioner Andris Piebalgs in a March 2006 interview.
Gas-Rich Regions
Turkey, a member of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization and an EU candidate since 2005, has long aspired to link the oil-and gas-rich regions of Central Asia with Europe. Its port city of Ceyhan receives 1 million barrels daily of Azerbaijani oil through the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline.
Ron Humphrey
04-22-2008, 02:09 AM
From today's Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aGtJGf29G29c&refer=home) news
I would hope this one is looked at long and hard before being jumped into.
You know like the difference between the different vendors in a flea market selling the same thing and the guy standing in between you and the very same product he's selling but for much less somewhere behind him. Sure I'll let you pass but you have to buy this first:eek:
Jedburgh
06-18-2008, 05:56 PM
CSIS, 6 Jun 08: Turkey's Shifting Dynamics: Implications for US-Turkey Relations (http://www.csis.org/media/csis/pubs/080606_turkeyshiftingdyn.pdf)
Turkey remains a pivotal actor in many important dimensions of U.S. foreign, national security, and economic policy. For more than half a century, a sound relationship with Turkey has been central to advancing U.S. interests in Eurasia and the Middle East and to creating new strategic opportunities for the United States and its other NATO allies. Yet, fundamental changes in their country and neighborhood have altered how Turks view and pursue their interests. The governing Justice and Development Party (AKP), supported by a new middle class from the Anatolian heartland that has emerged amidst growing prosperity, has eclipsed traditional secularist parties. Many Turks now favor more freedom of religious expression in public life. However, the AKP’s moves to reduce some of the strictures of state-enforced secularism have raised fears of creeping Islamization among the old elite and the military guardians of Atatürk’s republic and triggered a Constitutional Court case seeking to ban AKP and a number of its leaders from politics. Turkish politics are poised to enter a period of turbulence and unpredictability.....
RAND, 11 Jun 08: The Rise of Political Islam in Turkey (http://www.rand.org/pubs/monographs/2008/RAND_MG726.pdf)
This monograph describes the politico-religious landscape in Turkey and the relationship between the state and religion, and it evaluates how the balance between secular and religious forces—and between the Kemalist elites and new emerging social groups—has changed over the past decade, particularly since the AKP came to power in 2002. The study also assesses the new challenges and opportunities for U.S. policy in the changed Turkish political environment and identifies specific actions that the United States may undertake to advance the U.S. interest in a stable, democratic, and friendly Turkey and, more broadly, in the worldwide dissemination of liberal and pluralistic interpretations of Islam.....
Complete 135 page study at the link.
Rex Brynen
06-18-2008, 08:11 PM
As the RAND report correctly notes, Turkey is at a turning point:
The real threat confronting the AKP at the onset of Prime Minister
Erdoğan’s second term is not a direct intervention by the military, but
rather a decision by the judiciary to close down the party.
..and very likely to turn in the wrong direction (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7439056.stm), with the secular-Atatürkist "deep state" apparatus banning the party and its key leaders. Given the AKP's relatively impressive record of governance (better than any other Turkish party in decades, I would argue), and its very moderate and democratic Islamism, this is indeed a depressing possibility.
It also has broader implications: radical Islamist movements are likely to point to the AKP's fate as proof that electoral participation and moderation are pointless. Even when you win elections, increase your vote share in subsequent elections, promote foreign investment, improve human rights, participate in NATO (and send forces to ISAF), try to join the EU, and mediate Israeli-Syrian peace.... you still aren't allowed to stay in power. Why not then turn to violence?
I've yet to hear Western governments weigh in on this in any significant way. Certainly, EU leverage has declined as EU accession looks increasingly unlikely. It is also hard for outsiders to comment on internal Turkish judicial processes without raising nationalist hackles. Still, it would be a tragedy if the remarkable democratic transition in Turkey was reversed.
MattC86
06-19-2008, 05:20 AM
As the RAND report correctly notes, Turkey is at a turning point:
It also has broader implications: radical Islamist movements are likely to point to the AKP's fate as proof that electoral participation and moderation are pointless. Even when you win elections, increase your vote share in subsequent elections, promote foreign investment, improve human rights, participate in NATO (and send forces to ISAF), try to join the EU, and mediate Israeli-Syrian peace.... you still aren't allowed to stay in power. Why not then turn to violence?
I've yet to hear Western governments weigh in on this in any significant way. Certainly, EU leverage has declined as EU accession looks increasingly unlikely. It is also hard for outsiders to comment on internal Turkish judicial processes without raising nationalist hackles. Still, it would be a tragedy if the remarkable democratic transition in Turkey was reversed.
The (potential) parallels here with Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt are interesting. I heard a former DoS official once say, "we really have no idea what the hell they'd be about if they were in power. There's a strong chance that they'd be moderate Islamists, along the lines of the AKP, but no one really knows," and that we should try to find out and then when Mubarak dies press for the whole crappy system (really vestigial Nasserism) to fall on the scrap heap.
I believe that may have some merit - in the long run I just don't see secular moderates winning in the ME, let alone secular liberals. Moderate Islamist groups may be the least indigestible solution; but as the DoS official says, someone needs to figure out what the heck some of these groups would be like in power.
I agree also a military coup is highly unlikely - for one, the recent Islamization of the officer corps (no longer highly secular) and the fact that a move against the AKP and another coup would end Turkey's Europe aspirations forever, as well as damage its status as the reliable and stable ME country. . .
Regards,
Matt
davidbfpo
06-19-2008, 07:50 AM
A minor point for this thread. The chances of Turkey joining the EU fully are slim, whatever the diplomats say. Leaving aside Greek and Cypriot objections, there is no public support for this extension (not that the public has much impact on the EU) and the EU has got enough to do without adding a huge member.
I am not convinced accession to full EU membership is what AKP seeks, but the reassurance for maintaining democracy or having a political "comfort blanket" that being part of Europe provides. Very different from the economic aspects.
davidbfpo
Jedburgh
06-23-2008, 07:11 PM
I agree also a military coup is highly unlikely - for one, the recent Islamization of the officer corps (no longer highly secular). . .
I concur that a military coup is unlikely - the pending coup is judicial in nature. However, I believe that you overstate the "Islamization" of the officer corps. Not only do overtly Islamist officers continue to be purged, but as a group the Turkish officer corps remains almost virulently secular, and Kemalist ideology continues to be drilled into them from their earliest days to the end of their careers. That doesn't mean that there aren't such elements within the military - but I feel that that those elements are a very long way from having the power to exert any significant influence over internal or external military decision-making.
....and the fact that a move against the AKP and another coup would end Turkey's Europe aspirations forever, as well as damage its status as the reliable and stable ME country.
Here I believe that you understate the determination of the elite secular Turks to preserve their Kemalist ethno-nationalist identity. This would not be the first time that they've cut off their nose to spite their face (refer to issues related to Armenia, Cyprus, the Kurds, etc.). The move against the AKP is ongoing; it is unlikely to be halted at this point. But, as stated above, it is not the Turkish military that will ultimately remove them from power, but the Turkish judicial system.
The supreme irony is that the threat of radical Islam in Turkey will likely increase due to the secularists' attack on the moderate and reformist AKP.
Jedburgh
07-01-2008, 07:32 PM
EDM, 1 Jul 08: Turkish Police Detain Senior Retired Generals (http://jamestown.org/edm/article.php?article_id=2373193)
Early on the morning of July 1, the Turkish police detained (http://www.tiscali.co.uk/news/newswire.php/news/reuters/2008/07/01/topnews/turkey-widens-coup-probe.html&template=/news/feeds/story-template-reuters.html) 24 hard-line secularists during a series of raids in Ankara and Istanbul. Those taken into custody included retired General Sener Eruygur, the former commander of the Turkish Gendarmerie; retired General Hursit Tolon, the former commander of the First Army; Sinan Aygun, the head of the Ankara Chamber of Commerce; and Mustafa Balbay, the Ankara representative of Cumhuriyet daily newspaper.
The Turkish media reported that several of the arrests came during police raids on offices belonging to the Association for Ataturkist Thought (ADD), a secularist NGO that was founded in 1989 to promote the ideals of Mustafa Kemal Ataturk (1881-1938), who founded the modern Turkish republic in 1923. The ADD is currently headed by General Eruygur. In the spring of 2007, the ADD was one of the main organizers of a series of mass public protests in which hundreds of thousands of secular Turks took to the streets in an ultimately unsuccessful attempt to prevent the ruling Justice and Development party (AKP) from appointing Abdullah Gul as the country’s president.
It is thought that those taken into custody on July 1 are being held on suspicion of links to a shadowy Turkish ultranationalist group known as Ergenekon (http://jamestown.org/terrorism/news/article.php?articleid=2373933). The group first came to public attention in June 2007, when the Turkish police discovered 27 hand grenades and a small quantity of explosives in a house in the Istanbul suburb of Umraniye. Subsequent investigations eventually led to the arrest in January of retired Gendarmerie General Veli Kucuk, the alleged founder and leader of Ergenekon, and 12 associates.....
This should really stoke up tensions between the secularist right and the AKP; and the timing is just right. The prosecutor on the party closure case is making his opening statement today.
Here's a link (http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/home/9330480.asp?gid=244&sz=62097) to the English story from Hurriyet. This story suggest the arrests are directly part of the Ergenekon investigation.
And here's (http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=108790) the link to the Turkish Daily News story as well.
Jedburgh
07-25-2008, 06:36 PM
The Economist, 17 Jul 08: Turkey's Future: Flags, Veils and Sharia (http://www.economist.com/world/europe/displaystory.cfm?story_id=11745570)
....Yet the biggest boost to religious education came from the army itself, after it seized power for the third time in 1980. Communism was the enemy at the time, so the generals encouraged Islam as an antidote. Religious teaching became mandatory. Islamic clerical-training schools, known as imam hatip, mushroomed.
Another example of how army meddling goes awry is Hizbullah, Turkey’s deadliest home-grown Islamic terrorist outfit. Hizbullah (no relation to its Lebanese namesake) is alleged to have been encouraged by rogue security forces in the late 1980s to fight separatist PKK rebels in the Kurdish south-east. The group spiralled out of control until police raids in 2001 knocked it out of action. But not entirely (http://jamestown.org/terrorism/news/article.php?articleid=2373928). Former Hizbullah militants are said to have regrouped in cells linked to al-Qaeda, and took part in the 2003 bombings of Jewish and British targets in Istanbul.
Banning the AKP could strengthen the hand of such extremists, who share the fierce secularists’ belief that Islam and democracy cannot co-exist. If instead the AKP stayed in power, that would bring Islamists closer to the mainstream.....
Rex Brynen
07-30-2008, 09:52 PM
Turkey’s Governing Party Avoids Ban (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/31/world/europe/31turkey.html?hp)
By SEBNEM ARSU and SABRINA TAVERNISE
New York Times
Published: July 31, 2008
ISTANBUL — Turkey’s governing party narrowly missed being banned in a court ruling on Wednesday that released months of pressure in the country and handed a victory to the party’s leader, a former Islamist.
The party, Justice and Development, or AKP, as it is know in Turkish, was kept alive by just one vote — six members of Turkey’s Constitutional Court voted to close it, but seven were required. A ban would have brought down the government, forcing national elections for the second time in a year and pitching the country into chaos.
jmm99
08-02-2008, 01:33 AM
do you think will evolve from this decision.
AdamG
07-30-2011, 03:17 AM
Reading music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS6vrgwq6Hw)
Hours after the country’s entire military echelon, including the Chief of the General Staff, resigned from their posts in a reaction to civilian rulers, the government appointed Gendarmerie Forces Commander Gen. Necdet Özel late Friday as the land forces commander, in a move to end the crisis as swiftly as possible.
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=highest-ranking-turkish-soldiers-resign-2011-07-29
davidbfpo
07-30-2011, 11:21 AM
From the BBC yesterday:
There has been a history of tension between the secularist military and the governing AK party, with the two sides engaged in a war of words for the past two years over allegations that parts of the military had been plotting a coup.
Investigations into those allegations, known as the "Sledgehammer" conspiracy - appear to be the root cause of today's resignations, says the BBC's correspondent in Istanbul, with the senior military wanting to go ahead with scheduled annual promotions for some of the officers implicated - and the government refusing.
Link:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14346325
When this subject has come up before it has been unclear if the prosecutions are substantiated by evidence or an attempt by the government to undermine the military's role as 'guardian' within Ataturk's principles.
AdamG
08-15-2011, 08:45 PM
For the first time in Turkey, a serving general is appearing before a civilian court. The general and other senior officers are accused of seeking to overthrow the government in an alleged conspiracy called "Sledgehammer." Prosecutors claim the investigation seeks to end political meddling by the army, but concern is growing that there maybe other motives behind the four-year investigation
http://www.voanews.com/english/news/europe/Alleged-Military-Coup-Plotters-on-Trial-in-Turkey---127772643.html
The dramatic changes in Turkey’s armed forces killed any hope of reviving Israeli-Turkish military cooperation. The indictments against dozens of officers mean in effect that the army will make no attempt to challenge the government’s Israel policy. Furthermore, following the success of Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan and his party in eroding the army’s status, the government will make a concerted effort to maintain this achievement.
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?id=233666
In foreign policy, a Turkey satisfied with its Islamic identity would stop considering itself intuitively Western, especially given the resonance of the notion of a politically defined “Muslim world” since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. This means an increasingly tense relationship between Turkey and NATO, the symbol of all Western institutions. It also means that Turkey will be open to all sorts of non-Western dalliances. An AKP decision to buy Russian weapons, say, or invite the Chinese to a joint naval exercise in the Mediterranean would be applauded by Turks, including the military.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/from-ataturk-to-erdogan-reshaping-turkey/2011/08/11/gIQA5lKjFJ_story.html
davidbfpo
08-15-2011, 10:22 PM
An AKP decision to buy Russian weapons..
Too late, IIRC Turkey has purchased Russian weapons before today: MLRS, wheeled APCs and small arms.
AdamG
08-17-2011, 01:53 PM
Too late, IIRC Turkey has purchased Russian weapons before today: MLRS, wheeled APCs and small arms.
Alot of Eastern Bloc weapons Turkey has are ex-DDR acquired at bargain basement prices and sourced from W. Germany.
AdamG
08-19-2011, 02:31 AM
Related?
Turkish aircraft have attacked 60 sites in northern Iraq used as bases by the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) in a "successful" operation, military headquarters said in a statement.
It followed an attack by the rebel group that killed nine Turkish troops.
The statement said the military would press ahead with strikes until the rebels were "rendered ineffective".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14570301
bourbon
08-19-2011, 04:58 AM
Too late, IIRC Turkey has purchased Russian weapons before today: MLRS, wheeled APCs and small arms.
It’s the big stuff like warships and fighter aircraft that counts, where it is just as much diplomacy as it is an arms deal. Then it gets into countertrades, offset agreements, industrial cooperation, etc. Nobody pays just cash in those deals.
Small arms, APCs, MLRS on the other hand are relatively simple; they don’t require significant foreign training, and spare parts can probably be sourced from other FSU countries. These kinds of deals don’t have that much money and people going back-and-forth, and do not represent a significant shift in relations.
AdamG
01-06-2012, 10:32 AM
ISTANBUL, Jan 6 (Reuters) - Former Turkish armed forces chief General Ilker Basbug spent his first night behind bars on Friday, charged with trying to overthrow the government in an unprecedented development likely to exacerbate tensions with the military.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/06/turkey-plot-idUSL6E8C600320120106
davidbfpo
01-13-2012, 08:38 PM
I am still trying to follow this developing situation, with the current Islamic government pursuing via the criminal justice route the leadership of the army and other critics.
Hat tip to FP Blog for offering a background explanation, 'Behind Bars in the Deep State' which is sub-titled:
Does a shadowy mullah in Pennsylvania really hold the reins of power in Turkey? If not, then why are the country’s leaders so intent on silencing a single investigative journalist?
The article points the finger at a shadowy Muslim group.
Oddly the article has been pulled and is not cached. Will try to link another day.
tequila
01-13-2012, 08:56 PM
The Fetullah Gulen movement is not that "shadowy" - it is a massive outfit its own website (http://www.fethullah-gulen.org/)and quite a large number of media outlets (http://www.fountainmagazine.com/).
BBC story (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-13503361) with some details about Ahmet Sik's case.
Recent NYTIMES story about Gulen charter schools in Texas (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/07/education/07charter.html?pagewanted=all).
I'd be worried less about the Gulen movement and more about the AKP's actions - though given the Turkish military's actions in the past, it's hard for them to complain about creeping authoritarianism.
AdamG
01-16-2012, 04:50 PM
Oddly the article has been pulled and is not cached. Will try to link another day.
I think you might have encountered internet outages/hiccups over the last 48h.
Here it is
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/01/11/behind_bars_in_the_deep_state
also here
http://arunwithaview.wordpress.com/2012/01/11/behind-bars-in-the-deep-state/
Meanwhile, historical precedence in the news
http://articles.cnn.com/2012-01-10/world/world_europe_turkey-coup-indictment_1_turkish-constitution-military-junta-recep-tayyip-erdogan?_s=PM:EUROPE
SWJ Blog
05-02-2012, 09:50 AM
A Different War on Terrorism: The U.S., Turkey and the PKK (http://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art/a-different-war-on-terrorism-the-us-turkey-and-the-pkk)
Entry Excerpt:
--------
Read the full post (http://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art/a-different-war-on-terrorism-the-us-turkey-and-the-pkk) and make any comments at the SWJ Blog (http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog).
This forum is a feed only and is closed to user comments.
SWJ Blog
08-30-2012, 10:07 AM
Book Review: Democracy, Islam and Secularism in Turkey (http://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art/book-review-democracy-islam-and-secularism-in-turkey)
Entry Excerpt:
--------
Read the full post (http://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art/book-review-democracy-islam-and-secularism-in-turkey) and make any comments at the SWJ Blog (http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog).
This forum is a feed only and is closed to user comments.
davidbfpo
12-21-2012, 02:33 PM
An interesting analysis of what is going on:
Turkey's AKP government has over a decade promised a new model of governance: progressive and reformist, Islamist and democratic. But a series of developments, including the expanding power of prime minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, is now exposing the party and its policies to ever-deeper scrutiny....
Link:http://www.opendemocracy.net/kerem-oktem/turkey-end-of-islamism-with-human-face
omarali50
12-21-2012, 07:24 PM
this is an interesting article about fethullah gulen http://www.city-journal.org/2012/22_4_fethullah-gulen.html
Fuchs
12-22-2012, 12:42 AM
Keep in mind some if not most of the Western-like modernisation of the Turkish state in the last decade or more was done in order to conform enough to the EU for becoming a member.
Bluntly stated, enough Europeans don't want the Turks to join - the EU is already very diverse without growing beyond actual occidental Europe. It's having its issues and doesn't need more.
The membership of Cyprus coupled with the basically unresolved conflict on Cyprus basically ensured that if Greece doesn't veto, Cyprus does and if Cyprus doesn't, some other veto will be found.
So the Turks basically gave up the idea of joining the EU and Erdogan et al instead began to develop Turkey as a comeback great power with an identity between Europe, Arab countries and Central Asian turk nations.
With Turkey going its own way, he apparently also figured that Turkey can have its own interpretation of what a modern state is like and doesn't need to accept Western ideas on this at face value.
The problem in Turkey is in my opinion a lack of political and probably also media plurality. It's either AKP or the pro-military autocrats IIRC, and there should really be a third choice which could form a coalition with both and keep the political culture from going too far towards either extreme.
I'm not well-informed on their party landscape (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_Turkey), though.
davidbfpo
01-03-2013, 11:51 AM
Hat tip to a "lurker" for this article, published by the Hudson Institute, 'The Gulen Movement in Azerbaijan' by Fuad Aliyev:http://www.currenttrends.org/research/detail/the-gulen-movement-in-azerbaijan
The conclusion starts with:
The Glen movement has arguably emerged as the most successful movement in Azerbaijans unfolding Islamic revival. No other Islamic movement in Azerbaijan can claim such an extensive organization or level of influence in business, charity, lobbying and, above all, in the field of education. Moreover, the movement has managed to acquire this influence without revealing its ideological mission. This has, not surprisingly, generated considerable suspicion of its motives. And despite its reputation as a post- Islamist movement that seeks integration with society, it is nonetheless still widely perceived as having a religious-political agenda.
Not sure if there is an Azerbaijan thread, so placed here.
davidbfpo
02-02-2013, 11:58 PM
It is more than admirals, but The Economist provides an update on the apparent emasculation of the Turkish military by the civilian government. It starts with:
..has nobody to command its navy. Just such a situation looms in Turkey after this week’s resignation of Admiral Nusret Guner, the number two in the navy who was expected to take over when its incumbent head steps down in August. There are no other qualified candidates, not least because more than half of Turkey’s admirals are in jail...
Link:http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21571147-once-all-powerful-turkish-armed-forces-are-cowed-if-not-quite-impotent-erdogan-and-his?fsrc=scn%2Ftw_ec%2Ferdogan_and_his_generals
davidbfpo
02-13-2013, 08:49 PM
Prime Minister Tayyip Erdoğan did something quite symbolic last weekend: He visited the hospitalized ex-general Ergin Saygun, who was recently sentenced to 18 years in prison for a military coup plot against Erdoğan’s own government. Both Saygun, who had undergone a heart operation just hours after the postponing of his sentence, and his family were positively surprised. Many others were puzzled.
Link:http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/love-the-kemalists-hate-their-kemalism.aspx?pageID=238&nid=40968
SWJ Blog
08-30-2013, 03:40 PM
Why Syrians in Turkey are Not “Refugees” and Why it Matters (http://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art/why-syrians-in-turkey-are-not-%E2%80%9Crefugees%E2%80%9D-and-why-it-matters)
Entry Excerpt:
--------
Read the full post (http://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art/why-syrians-in-turkey-are-not-%E2%80%9Crefugees%E2%80%9D-and-why-it-matters) and make any comments at the SWJ Blog (http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog).
This forum is a feed only and is closed to user comments.
SWJ Blog
08-31-2013, 02:31 PM
The Young Ataturk: From Ottoman Soldier to Statesman of Turkey (http://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art/the-young-ataturk-from-ottoman-soldier-to-statesman-of-turkey)
Entry Excerpt:
--------
Read the full post (http://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art/the-young-ataturk-from-ottoman-soldier-to-statesman-of-turkey) and make any comments at the SWJ Blog (http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog).
This forum is a feed only and is closed to user comments.
davidbfpo
03-31-2015, 04:20 PM
In August 2011 the contest between the politicians and generals appeared to end with the 'Sledgehammer' criminal charges being laid against over two hundred suspects (see Posts 33-35). A 2014 BBC report after earlier trials and appeals:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24457491
Today on Twitter a US observer tweeted:
Sledgehammer saga ends as Turkish court acquits all defendants, citing strong suspicion of fake evidence.One I think Turksih report:http://www.worldbulletin.net/turkey/157224/236-acquitted-in-turkish-military-coup-case
Curiously and purely by coincidence attention has been diverted, including the BBC, to two quite different news stories. First a near nation-wide electricity outage:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32130567
Then a siege in Istanbul, where a banned Marxist-Leninist group DHKP-C, have seized a state prosecutor in a court building. News report:http://mashable.com/2015/03/31/prosecutor-hostage-turkey/#:eyJzIjoidCIsImkiOiJfMDhlcHZ0N3llaDFpbzBobjBrb2xt dF8ifQ
Or the BBC:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32129012
Background reading on this group, suitably Byzantine:http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/9/27/istanbul-okmeydanineighborhoodarrows.html
davidbfpo
09-08-2015, 01:31 PM
Hat tip to WoTR for this commentary:
Most observers of Turkey have reduced every single problem facing Turkey to one factor: Erdogan, its president. He is certainly a troubling leader, but Turkey's trials run far deeper than one man.
Link:http://warontherocks.com/2015/09/the-unbearable-lightness-of-blaming-erdogan-or-what-turkey-experts-are-not-telling-you/?
A taster:
We are looking at a multi-player game of chicken where different actors are speeding toward each other with no intention to step on the brakes. Erdogan is driving the largest vehicle, but it takes more than one driver to cause a pileup.
davidbfpo
09-12-2015, 11:07 AM
A somewhat surprising opinion column in the NYT, by an American SME, who writes that the military are now back in favour with President Erdogan:http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/12/opinion/turkeys-military-rulers.html?
davidbfpo
10-13-2015, 01:52 PM
Moderator's Note
This thread has been renamed from 'WTF News Network : Turkish Senior Ranks' mass resignation/retirement' to 'Turkey: politicians and generals - what is going on?'
In October 2015 the thread was renamed from Turkey: politicians and generals - what is going on? - to Turkey: what is going on? A small number of older threads and SWJ pieces were merged in.
A thread 2008-2009 called 'Secularism and Foreign Policy in Turkey', which contains background to the latest issues has now been merged into this thread (Ends).
davidbfpo
10-13-2015, 01:57 PM
An Open Democracy article on Turkey after the terrorist bombing of a pro-Kurdish rally in Ankara; in summary:
What we have witnessed in the last two years, culminating in the horrible scenes of 10 October in Ankara, is the end of the Turkish Republic as we know it.Link:https://www.opendemocracy.net/umut-ozkirimli/ankara-bombing-and-end-of-turkish-republic
This article cites another report, minus a link, so here it is:http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/10/turkey-bombing-ankara-many-will-have-seen-this-attack-coming
A lengthy BBC report after:
he Islamic State (IS) group is the prime suspect in the Ankara bombings that killed nearly 100 on Saturday, Turkish PM Ahmet Davutoglu has said.Link:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34505030
davidbfpo
02-06-2016, 04:31 PM
Those who watch Turkey will probably know, but given its regional role we should note "enemies to the front and rear". The article starts with:
The latest footage to come out of Sur, the historical district in Diyarbakir that has been under total lock down by Turkish armed forces for the past sixty days, shows a level of devastation one would sooner expect in Syria. In more ways than one – empty streets lined with debris, bombed-out buildings, tanks and soldiers shooting at invisible assailants – the situation in Turkey’s predominantly Kurdish southeastern regions resembles a war zone.
Link:http://www.juancole.com/2016/02/turkey-descends-into-civil-war-as-conflict-in-southeast-escalates.html
Then a UK paper headline, sadly:
Horrific video 'shows unarmed Kurds waving white flag shot dead by Turkish soldiers'
Link:http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/horrific-video-shows-unarmed-kurds-7225065
davidbfpo
03-06-2016, 01:17 PM
A short commentary on the path taken by the Erdogan-led AKP government, including taking over this week an opposition newspaper:http://tahirabbas.co.uk/index.php/no-freedom-no-speech/
It ends with:
People in Turkey remember the dark days of the 1980s and 1990s, when ethnic and sectarian violence was the norm, with people sharply divided politically, culturally and economically, and when a dark and gloomy cloud hung over the nation without hope or opportunity. The irony is that half of the nation regards anything the ruling party does as perfectly acceptable in the current climate of actual terrorism in the form of far left violence, Islamic State bombings and the perennial bogeyman, the PKK, resurfacing as Turkey’s most sinister enemy within. With an immense electoral mandate, the AKP leadership sees itself as untouchable. Such hubris is often the pride before the fall.
davidbfpo
03-15-2016, 11:08 AM
A short article after recent events:https://theconversation.com/bombing-in-ankara-who-is-fighting-who-in-turkey-56223?
Which concludes:
So brace for further attacks on Turkey’s major centres of population. The tragedy is that the more regular these become, the more polarised civil society will become in the country. The prospect of communal violence against minority Kurdish populations in parts of Turkey is growing more likely and an end to the conflict seems further away than ever.
davidbfpo
03-20-2016, 08:00 PM
Via Twitter. This may explain some of the context for recent mayhem and murder in Turkey.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cd_nxF1XIAABgEv.jpg
davidbfpo
06-13-2016, 01:17 PM
A two part piece on Defence-in-Depth blog by Bill Park, a Kings War Studies academic, reviewing Turkey and the Kurds. The first part ends:
In fact, many Kurds are assimilated, but the Turkish state has never embraced or even truly grasped the fact that Kurds are at least as different from Turks as, say, Poles are from Germans or, if preferred, the Irish and Scots are from the English. There will be no settlement of Turkey’s Kurdish question until and unless Turks accept the ethnic, linguistic, cultural and historical distinctiveness of the twenty percent or so of Turkey’s citizens that are ethnically Kurdish rather than Turkish. There are few serious signs that this recognition is imminent.Link:https://defenceindepth.co/2016/06/08/turkeys-kurdish-problems-the-kurds-turkish-problems-and-the-crises-in-the-middle-east-part-1/
The second part looks at the trans-border aspects and ends pessimistically that after one century of conflict, nothing has changed.
Link:https://defenceindepth.co/2016/06/13/turkeys-kurdish-problems-the-kurds-turkish-problems-and-the-crises-in-the-middle-east-part-2/
SWJ Blog
06-29-2016, 07:50 PM
Turkey Teetering on the Razor`s Edge of Terror: The Istanbul Ataturk Airport Attacks (http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/turkey-teetering-on-the-razors-edge-of-terror-the-istanbul-ataturk-airport-attacks)
Entry Excerpt:
--------
Read the full post (http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/turkey-teetering-on-the-razors-edge-of-terror-the-istanbul-ataturk-airport-attacks) and make any comments at the SWJ Blog (http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog).
This forum is a feed only and is closed to user comments.
Condor
07-15-2016, 09:28 PM
Here we go...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jul/15/turkey-coup-attempt-military-gunfire-ankara
Where is Outlaw 09 on this? I expected up-to-the-minute translated social media feeds!
;)
OUTLAW 09
07-16-2016, 10:44 AM
BTW...this US Senator is an avid Assad supporter.....
As an American...cannot say much about my own elected officials these days as it appears they really know nothing about the world we all live in.....
Senator Dick Black
@SenRichardBlack
Good news of the day: Military attempting to oust Turkish dictator #Erdogan #TheManWhoWouldBeHitlerAssad's friend Senator Dick praises Turkey military coup against elected government.
A US senator praising a military coup against a legally and democratically elected official makes one think just how democratic this Senator really is...???
Even I have my differences with where Erdogan is headed but he still is in the eyes of his civil society a democratically elected official..and that has to be respected at all costs......
AND even non Erdogan supporters went into the streets to support the government WHY.... the Turkish civil society differently remembers what it was like to live under a military dictatorship....
Assad fights people with tanks
Erdogan fights tanks with people
Pro #Assad gang celebrated #TurkeyCoup and now accuse civilians of wrongfully put down the military. Cynics. https://twitter.com/shehabifares/status/754063708729516036 …
OUTLAW 09
07-16-2016, 11:18 AM
Famous Syrian rebel singer-turned-commander in a pro-govt protest in Turkey shouting against Assad. An apt metaphor.
Hassan Hassan @hxhassan
I can't emphasize enough how this mess emanates from a flawed perception of Erdogan's popularity, in Turkey & beyond. Media created a bubble
davidbfpo
07-16-2016, 04:15 PM
The BBC News has several reports and comments. I am no expert on Turkey, let alone its military, but the attempted coup was a disaster before it started. The President was not "at home" and was able to broadcast a call for supporters to take to the streets - amplified by CNN. My recollection is that previous coups have been without initial bloodshed and undertaken by all the high command.
It is almost as if the plotters have achieved what the AKP and President Erdogan have been unable to do - unify everyone behind them.
That the police arrested the soldiers involved is very different, IIRC the police have always been "second class" to the military and will the accused now appear in civilian courts?
OUTLAW 09
07-16-2016, 06:05 PM
Erdogan: "US have to give us #Gulen if we are to cooperate together." In meantime, 1,500 Americans at #Incirlik can't go in, out or fly.
BREAKING: Erdoğan speaks live, calls U.S to hand over Fethullah Gulen if U.S is strategic ally - @CNNTURK_ENG
Remarkable demand from a so called NATO ally......
Haaretz.com
✔ @haaretzcom Kerry: Turkey would have to prove wrongdoing by Gulen for U.S. to extradite him
http://htz.li/61H #TurkeyCoup
ISIS didn't waste time: taking advantage of Incirlik Airbase shutdown it is advancing in #Manbij-N. #Raqqa w/ several assaults vs #SDF/#YPG
Manbij: #ISIS has started a new offensive against #YPG around #Manbij from multiple axis. #ISIS fighters advancing now.
Kyle W. Orton @KyleWOrton
From AKP/Erdogan POV, U.S. is: supporting the PKK, came in very late to support the govt against a coup, and refuses to hand over Gulen.
Kyle W. Orton @KyleWOrton
Should say: I have seen no evidence Gulen had anything to do with the coup attempt (or any of the other conspiracies he's accused of).
Incirik Air Base, housing 90 US nuclear weapons, shut off from power.
http://fb.me/4iIr10Rog
OUTLAW 09
07-16-2016, 06:10 PM
NOTICE anything with this comment when you read the above.....???
Dugin in Ankara day b4 coup: Turkey & Russia have same enemy–US hegemony & it's instrument radical islamic terrorism http://katehon.com/news/alexander-dugin-gave-press-conference-ankara …
BREAKING: Secretary of Labor Süleyman Soylu live on news channel Haberturk: "The US is behind this coup"
Dugin gave speech in Ankara yesterday, today says Turkey "forever Eurasian" after coup. Bad feeling about this.
https://twitter.com/JvanDijkS/status/754303063373086721 …
THIS is critical to understand......as it ties nicely into Dugin's comments.....
The Russian narrative re: Turkish coup seems perfectly coordinate among all RU storytellers
http://katehon.com/agenda/pro-american-coup-turkey …
OUTLAW 09
07-16-2016, 06:40 PM
Where is Outlaw 09 on this? I expected up-to-the-minute translated social media feeds!
;)
Have enough to do with Ukraine and Syria.....while Erdogan was democratically elected does not mean I fully support every action he has taken in the last four years....
OUTLAW 09
07-16-2016, 06:48 PM
Erdogan blames a guy from the Poconos for Turkey coup. Forget Dugin was in Ankara pushing Turkey closer to Russia, away from US/NATO "enemy"
OUTLAW 09
07-16-2016, 06:48 PM
Erdogan supporter with sign of extreme right-wing Grey Wolves posing against lynched dead soldier.
OUTLAW 09
07-16-2016, 06:50 PM
Azor...BTW this interests me more......
More we know what has followed after so called #TurkeyCoupAttemp more reasons we have to think the Coup was real...& #Erdogan was behind it.
Some 'pro coup' soldiers, now in custody, reportedly thought #Turkey coup attempt was just an exercise - AP
1st thing Turkey coup plotters did was take over TV station. Remember Russia's Strelkov did same in Donetsk #Ukraine https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/27/ukraine-donetsk-pro-russian-forces-seize-tv-station-parade-captives …
TurkeyCoup
- 265 dead
- 1600+ injured
- 3000+ soldiers arrested
- 2700+ judges arrested
- US airbase closed
- Coup ongoing in some areas
After Incirlik airbase has been shut down, multiple Russian airstrikes target Azaz in north rural #Aleppo, #Syria, several civilians killed
BREAKING: Turkish Defence Minister says it is too early to say that a possibility of a military coup is totally suppressed - @ragipsoylu
Eve 1: "We finished them."
Eve 2: "Ah, no, we didn't yet."
Eve 3: "Give us 6 more months." ?!
OUTLAW 09
07-16-2016, 07:56 PM
Erdoğan speaks of foreign forces who want to pit army against the people at Istanbul rally #Turkey
Istanbul: Reports of heavy clashes at Tuzla districts military garrison
Some coup loyalists were at Incirlik, home to nuclear weapons & US troops/planes. A rebel jet refueled there. Serious ramifications.
EchoSec picking up lots of posts about pro-government demonstrations in Istanbul tonight
davidbfpo
07-16-2016, 08:50 PM
A really good article that dissects the coup and why cyber power crippled them. Note President Erdogan was in a plane, having left his holiday venue and was hitting the keyboard.
Link:https://medium.com/@thegrugq/cyberpower-crushes-coup-b247f3cca780#.bg0sqqrvb
Azor...BTW this interests me more......
More we know what has followed after so called #TurkeyCoupAttemp more reasons we have to think the Coup was real...& #Erdogan was behind it.
Some 'pro coup' soldiers, now in custody, reportedly thought #Turkey coup attempt was just an exercise - AP
1st thing Turkey coup plotters did was take over TV station. Remember Russia's Strelkov did same in Donetsk #Ukraine https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/27/ukraine-donetsk-pro-russian-forces-seize-tv-station-parade-captives …
TurkeyCoup
- 265 dead
- 1600+ injured
- 3000+ soldiers arrested
- 2700+ judges arrested
- US airbase closed
- Coup ongoing in some areas
After Incirlik airbase has been shut down, multiple Russian airstrikes target Azaz in north rural #Aleppo, #Syria, several civilians killed
BREAKING: Turkish Defence Minister says it is too early to say that a possibility of a military coup is totally suppressed - @ragipsoylu
Eve 1: "We finished them."
Eve 2: "Ah, no, we didn't yet."
Eve 3: "Give us 6 more months." ?!
Yes I do wonder if it was a sting operation where the AKP used its loyal commanders to lure opposition ones into a coup before withdrawing support. Ergdogan is using this to expand executive power further and to arrest judges. If the coup isn't over yet and it's only a small faction in the military, then why are the intelligentsia being purged? Very false flaggy to me. The conspirators never captured any of the government leadership. Whereas Erdogan called pro-AKP crowds to the streets to take on soldiers who were never going to mow them down, now there's a curfew...
Outlaw 09, it is curious how the base fits into the failed coup:
The base was shut down and electricity cut off
The base houses 90 nuclear bombs (tactical, free-fall)
Aircraft involved in the coup re-fueled at the base
Given the sudden Russo-Turkish rapprochement, and indications that the failed coup may have been incited (sting) or wholly (false flag) launched by the government itself in order to consolidate political and legal power further, as well as Turkish suggestions that the US was behind the coup, perhaps this is part of a process to oust US forces from Turkey?
OUTLAW 09
07-17-2016, 10:17 AM
Outlaw 09, it is curious how the base fits into the failed coup:
The base was shut down and electricity cut off
The base houses 90 nuclear bombs (tactical, free-fall)
Aircraft involved in the coup re-fueled at the base
Given the sudden Russo-Turkish rapprochement, and indications that the failed coup may have been incited (sting) or wholly (false flag) launched by the government itself in order to consolidate political and legal power further, as well as Turkish suggestions that the US was behind the coup, perhaps this is part of a process to oust US forces from Turkey?
Azor....you are actually seeing the correct picture.....although the West has not caught onto it yet.
1. there was to be a major national council meeting where the purging og officers was going to decided....leaked to the AKP media several weeks ago
2. there is social media reports of families talking to the "captured sons" who took part openly stating we were alerted of a "coup alert and follow on exercise
3. a lot of the coup officers were in the LTC/COLs and MAJs levels which is totally not normal for a coup although a lot of top commanders were arrested
4. this whole mess actually started with the series of released intercepted voice conversations of members of the Erdogan family and himself involved in deep corruption....and the follow on arrest of many of those charged with corruption out of those tapes...that triggered the first Erdogan wave of prosecutors and judges being fired and a change in the release of voice tapes and a clamp down on the press
5. then when the officially legal arm of the Kurds the HDP won 13% of the votes in the previous election it effectively blocked Erdogan from creating his one man rule
6. then the sudden clamp down on all Kurdish activists and the HDP to taking away their parliamentary immunity
7. then the sudden purge of his PM who he viewed as being to western friendly thus moving the position to a hardcore AKP supporter
8. then the Erdogan refusal to allow members of the German Parliament and the German Defense Minister to visit her troops (the Tornado crews) due to the Germans stating that Turkey committed genocide with the Armenians.....this after the Germans bent over backwards to assist Turkey in setting up election booths across Germany for the last Turkish elections and providing the Patriots when he felt threatened by Assad.....
Thus triggering the PKK into action thus giving Erdogan an excuse to look like the powerful leader for the next election which he and AKP won giving him singular powers....
This so called coup now gave him the right to purge the military and bring in only AKP friendly officers ie Islamists and to purge the judiciary which he did.
BUT this is the key......the US sees it as well......
U.S. warns Turkey against 'insinuations' of involvement in coup attempt
http://www.unian.info/world/1421840-us-warns-turkey-against-insinuations-of-involvement-in-coup-attempt.html …
In some aspects Erdogan is just as dangerous as Putin is.....
OUTLAW 09
07-17-2016, 10:23 AM
A great bystander's account of the Turkish non-coup, by novelist @kayagenc
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/16/opinion/a-night-at-the-coup.html?smid=tw-share&mtrref=t.co&assetType=opinion&_r=0 …
Sky rocketing anti-Americanism and lead of Islamic factions on streets seem to become the main theme 2nd day after #TurkeyCoupAttempt
OUTLAW 09
07-17-2016, 10:53 AM
Azor....you are actually seeing the correct picture.....although the West has not caught onto it yet.
1. there was to be a major national council meeting where the purging og officers was going to decided....leaked to the AKP media several weeks ago
2. there is social media reports of families talking to the "captured sons" who took part openly stating we were alerted of a "coup alert and follow on exercise
3. a lot of the coup officers were in the LTC/COLs and MAJs levels which is totally not normal for a coup although a lot of top commanders were arrested
4. this whole mess actually started with the series of released intercepted voice conversations of members of the Erdogan family and himself involved in deep corruption....and the follow on arrest of many of those charged with corruption out of those tapes...that triggered the first Erdogan wave of prosecutors and judges being fired and a change in the release of voice tapes and a clamp down on the press
5. then when the officially legal arm of the Kurds the HDP won 13% of the votes in the previous election it effectively blocked Erdogan from creating his one man rule
6. then the sudden clamp down on all Kurdish activists and the HDP to taking away their parliamentary immunity
7. then the sudden purge of his PM who he viewed as being to western friendly thus moving the position to a hardcore AKP supporter
8. then the Erdogan refusal to allow members of the German Parliament and the German Defense Minister to visit her troops (the Tornado crews) due to the Germans stating that Turkey committed genocide with the Armenians.....this after the Germans bent over backwards to assist Turkey in setting up election booths across Germany for the last Turkish elections and providing the Patriots when he felt threatened by Assad.....
Thus triggering the PKK into action thus giving Erdogan an excuse to look like the powerful leader for the next election which he and AKP won giving him singular powers....
This so called coup now gave him the right to purge the military and bring in only AKP friendly officers ie Islamists and to purge the judiciary which he did.
BUT this is the key......the US sees it as well......
U.S. warns Turkey against 'insinuations' of involvement in coup attempt
http://www.unian.info/world/1421840-us-warns-turkey-against-insinuations-of-involvement-in-coup-attempt.html …
In some aspects Erdogan is just as dangerous as Putin is.....
BINGO......now the "truth arrives".....via Dugin as always who was in Turkey just before the coup...which actually surprised me as Turkey was not his sphere of influence as he has been focused up to then on eastern Ukraine....
Many in the West view Dugin as a crazy neo right radical ideologue but he is up close and tight with Putin and was often in the past an advisor to Putin's inner circle....
Yes he is right wing crazy but crazy as a fox........
BREAKING: Erdogan, Putin to meet in first week of August, Turkish presidential source says - @anadoluagency
Two indicators that lead me to believe Putin knew this coup was coming......
1. during the Moscow press conference the Russian FM was not terribly worried about the outcome of the so called coup although Kerry was taken by surprise....the Russian FM was not if one reads body language well...
2. when asked if the Russian government was going to pullout their tourists that just got allowed to visit Turkey...Russian response was "not yet as we see no reason to"....as if they anticipated it ending quickly....by all appearance in their statements they were not in the least bit worried about their tourists...
BTW....major indicator...
Ten days before the coup Russian Sputnik carried an interview with the Turkish FM stating that he had discussed allowing Russia to use the NATO airbase...then he suddenly pulled back and stated he had not......but Russian media carried the story for a couple of days
This all has come about after a series of so called IS terrorist attacks on Turkey....which some have called false flag attacks.
OUTLAW 09
07-17-2016, 11:05 AM
Turkey's jails are filling up with alleged coup plotters. The Justice Minister says 6000 people are now detained.
http://m.france24.com/en/breaking/20160717-turkey-detains-about-6000-over-coup-plot-justice-minister?ns_campaign=reseaux_sociaux&ns_source=twitter&ns_mchannel=social&ns_linkname=breaking&aef_campaign_ref=partage_aef&aef_campaign_date=2016-07-17 …
1 of biggest reasons Mr. Erdogan recovered from coup bc "critical" media gave him voice.
Today 2 independent news sites shut down.
Payback?
OUTLAW 09
07-17-2016, 11:05 AM
Gulen challenges Erdogan to let an independent international committee investigate #TurkeyCoup.
https://twitter.com/zamanamerika/status/754483041498640385 …
French foreign minister says the failed coup does not give Erdogan a "blank cheque" for purges - Reuters
Turkish commander Brigadier General B.E. Van at US Incirlik base is also arrested:
http://www.haberdar.com/gundem/incirlik-in-turk-komutani-van-tutuklandi-h42872.html?mnst=16481 …
davidbfpo
07-17-2016, 11:07 AM
The main thread on Turkey currently is, which may provide background on recent events and into which this thread one day will merge:http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/showthread.php?t=13879
OUTLAW 09
07-17-2016, 11:49 AM
Michael Weiss @michaeldweiss
My latest: If you liked Erdogan before the coup, you'll love him now:
http://thebea.st/29ZebnQ
OUTLAW 09
07-17-2016, 02:27 PM
Now the "Revolution is eating it's own children"....there is more going on than meets the eye...when this happens.......
Ankara: Arrest warrant for #Erdogan's top military assistant Ali Yazıcı.
Erdoğan's top military aide Col. Ali Yazıcı in custody for complicity in coup attempt
http://sabahdai.ly/q4O8D3
Higher and higher it goes...
NOTE: If he was part of coup, even more amazing they didn't attempt to detain Erdogan
https://twitter.com/mahirzeynalov/status/754679274364407808 …
Are we potentially seeing a reverse coup where a democratically elected official using a "so called coup" takes complete control and basically declares himself a "sultan".......with absolutely no controls on his power by eliminating all control/balance mechanisms of a nation state claiming to be democratic....
Turkey under Erdogan has had the undeclared slant of reestablishing Turkish leadership in the areas of the former Ottoman Empire...using both the AKP and the Turkish neo Nazi group "Grey Wolves.
Now we are seeing the shift of Turkey from a secular democratic Muslim nation state to a right wing Islamist nation state....probably the first time in history that we can in fact witness such a transition.....Attaturk is spinning in his grave as this was the inherent danger he foresaw for Turkey historically speaking....
Erdoganist media asking:"When those treacherous media executives will be arrested?"
They talk abt independent media
As Erdogan rounds up judges, where's the evidence they had anything to do with coup attempt?
http://bit.ly/29LZrc0
6000 people are arrested with a pretext within 24 hours.
Was the list made before the coup?
OUTLAW 09
07-17-2016, 02:30 PM
French are good at calling a spade a spade........
Turkey may no longer be a viable partner in fight against Isis following coup, says French FM:"there are suspicions" http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/turkey-coup-latest-isis-syria-iraq-not-viable-partner-france-foreign-minister-a7141501.html …
OUTLAW 09
07-17-2016, 02:32 PM
Azor....you are actually seeing the correct picture.....although the West has not caught onto it yet.
1. there was to be a major national council meeting where the purging og officers was going to decided....leaked to the AKP media several weeks ago
2. there is social media reports of families talking to the "captured sons" who took part openly stating we were alerted of a "coup alert and follow on exercise
3. a lot of the coup officers were in the LTC/COLs and MAJs levels which is totally not normal for a coup although a lot of top commanders were arrested
4. this whole mess actually started with the series of released intercepted voice conversations of members of the Erdogan family and himself involved in deep corruption....and the follow on arrest of many of those charged with corruption out of those tapes...that triggered the first Erdogan wave of prosecutors and judges being fired and a change in the release of voice tapes and a clamp down on the press
5. then when the officially legal arm of the Kurds the HDP won 13% of the votes in the previous election it effectively blocked Erdogan from creating his one man rule
6. then the sudden clamp down on all Kurdish activists and the HDP to taking away their parliamentary immunity
7. then the sudden purge of his PM who he viewed as being to western friendly thus moving the position to a hardcore AKP supporter
8. then the Erdogan refusal to allow members of the German Parliament and the German Defense Minister to visit her troops (the Tornado crews) due to the Germans stating that Turkey committed genocide with the Armenians.....this after the Germans bent over backwards to assist Turkey in setting up election booths across Germany for the last Turkish elections and providing the Patriots when he felt threatened by Assad.....
Thus triggering the PKK into action thus giving Erdogan an excuse to look like the powerful leader for the next election which he and AKP won giving him singular powers....
This so called coup now gave him the right to purge the military and bring in only AKP friendly officers ie Islamists and to purge the judiciary which he did.
BUT this is the key......the US sees it as well......
U.S. warns Turkey against 'insinuations' of involvement in coup attempt
http://www.unian.info/world/1421840-us-warns-turkey-against-insinuations-of-involvement-in-coup-attempt.html …
In some aspects Erdogan is just as dangerous as Putin is.....
Alexander Dugin was in Turkey one day before the putsch. Dogu Perincek, a deep state Eurasianist, is Dugin's guy.
OUTLAW 09
07-17-2016, 02:35 PM
Now the "Revolution is eating it's own children"....there is more going on than meets the eye...when this happens.......
Ankara: Arrest warrant for #Erdogan's top military assistant Ali Yazıcı.
Erdoğan's top military aide Col. Ali Yazıcı in custody for complicity in coup attempt
http://sabahdai.ly/q4O8D3
Higher and higher it goes...
Are we potentially seeing a reverse coup where a democratically elected official using a "so called coup" takes complete control and basically declares himself a "sultan".......with absolutely no controls on his power by eliminating all control/balance mechanisms of a nation state claiming to be democratic....
Turkey under Erdogan has had the undeclared slant of reestablishing Turkish leadership in the areas of the former Ottoman Empire...using both the AKP and the Turkish neo Nazi group "Grey Wolves.
In 50 years, will Erdogan's hunt on the Gulenists feel like Stalin's purge of Trostskyists, vast majority of whom had no relation to Trotsky
Notice....there is not much coming from the Erdogan regime after yelling at the top of their lungs..."he is responsible".....ALL hype for the masses.....
SecKerry: Been no formal request for extradition of man Erdogan blames for #TurkeyCoup, #FethullahGulen. "Look forward to receiving it"
OUTLAW 09
07-17-2016, 02:35 PM
CNN Trk ENG
✔ @CNNTURK_ENG #LATEST İncirlik base in Turkey which was closed after coup attempt reopens, ISIS operations from the base resume
Turkey picture from #Ankara showing group of men attacking Syrian shops
OUTLAW 09
07-17-2016, 04:43 PM
Turkey's witch-hunt kicks off. Former university rector, a govt critic, tweets that he is being arrested. https://twitter.com/drmehmetates/status/754708857088249856 …
"When they came for the disabled I said nothing, when they came for the Communists I said nothing, when they came for the Socialists I said nothing, when they came for the labor unionists I said nothing, when they came for the Jews I said nothing.......when they came for me there was no one left to say anything...."
Many have quietly said in private over the last few years that there is a not so subtle drift towards fascism in Turkey via their Grey Wolf paramilitary group, the ring wing Islamists and Turkish nationalists....
That same Erdogan right wing Turkish groupings are strong in Europe especially Germany......
VIDEO: Erdogan supporters attack school associated w/ Gulen in #Germany after failed coup -@thevocaleurope
OUTLAW 09
07-17-2016, 04:53 PM
Turkey's coup attempt "might cause [Erdogan] to question himself,” Selahattin Demirtas tells @borzou in Diyarbakir: https://www.buzzfeed.com/borzoudaragahi/turkeys-kurdish-leader-hopes-failed-coup-will-make-erdogan-s?utm_term=.db5YARaA2#.xyp41Eo1Z …
BREAKING: Turkish official: Clashes between security forces, resisting coup backers in Istanbul.
Reports of clashes at #Konya air base in central #Turkey (now contained) & #Istanbul's Sabiha Gokcen Airport, where shots reportedly fired
UPDATE: Air Strike Reportedly Hits Coup Plotters At Airbase Near Ankara.
Erdogan says he will discuss the possibility of restoring the death sentence with the opposition #Turkey
EU policy on the death penalty - Is Erdogan signaling the dream of entering the EU is over?
http://eeas.europa.eu/human_rights/adp/index_en.htm …
Turkey: Compilation of reports in local media suggest mid- to high-level military officials arrested in *at least* 17 provinces.
OUTLAW 09
07-17-2016, 05:29 PM
Azor...this is what I pay attention to these days as Dugan ties into eastern Ukraine in a heavy way......
Russo-Turkish Rapprochement through Idea of Eurasia:
Alexander #Dugin’s Networks in #Turkey
http://www.jamestown.org/uploads/media/Jamestown-LaruelleRussoTurkish_01.pdfRusso-Turkish …
AND he ties into the US in other ways that the Us MSM and WH are not paying attention to.....
My look at growing ties between US hard-right extremists and Kremlin-linked organizations:
http://www.eurasianet.org/node/79686
OUTLAW 09
07-18-2016, 06:35 AM
On #Turkey arrests "That the lists are available already...indicates that
this was prepared & at a certain moment should be used"
BUT WAIT Erdogan does not want him in the country as then there would be a major upheaval against him and his AKP......
Turkish cleric Gulen says Erdogan behind coup, willing to be extradited
http://reut.rs/29NIzxE
BREAKING 1,800 Special Operations Unit police officers have been brought to Istanbul from neighboring provinces w/ their armoured vehicles
OUTLAW 09
07-18-2016, 07:12 AM
Michael Weiss
✔ @michaeldweiss Did Obama get Erdogan wrong?
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/obama-turkey-225659 …
This coup is highly unusual due to the following:
Another "mystery": Why was #Erdogan in no rush to reach #Istanbul then?
At least 3 holding patterns before landing.
I asked why Erdogan's jet went into a holding pattern despited being "hunted by pro-coup F-16".
"Why they didn't fire is a mystery,"
Military source says, #Erdogan was in sight of putschists' F-16s
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0ZX0Q9 …
OUTLAW 09
07-18-2016, 07:37 AM
Reuters: Senior security official says #Turkey has removed/fired 8,000 police across the country including in #Istanbul and the capital #Ankara
Much of the police sided with Erdogan during #TurkishCoupAttempt but these are times where total loyalty is demanded https://twitter.com/mahirzeynalov/status/754929717434847232 …
Do not believe Erdogan fully understands he is driving a new opposition into the arms of a counter revolt......a lot of discontented unemployed people are now angry at him coupled with the PKK...he will have his hands full for years to come.....
Thus far, very few navy officers were arrested, the head of the navy denounced the coup immediately #Turkey
BUT...then...
Commander of the Black Sea fleet, Rear Admiral Omer Faruk Harmancik was arrested #Turkey
Reports that ranking AKP official's brother arrested on suspicions of siding with #TurkeyCoup - via @AssetSourceApp
Major General Mehmet Disli, the brother of AKP figure Saban Disli, is suspected of being one of the main leaders of the coup
TURKEY: Almost every major unit in the Turkish army has lost their commander after #TurkeyCoup - @Ald_Aba
Thus the Turkish Army is virtually leaderless right now ....was this the intent of Erdogan???
OUTLAW 09
07-18-2016, 08:04 AM
Chaos Plays Into Erdogan’s Hands After a Career Shaped by Coups
http://bloom.bg/29DaZ06
Interesting comment as it is true that suddenly everything is occurring at the same exact time......
After #TurkeyCoup, #ArmeniaCoup the attacks on govt forces started in #Kazakhstan.
https://twitter.com/AFP/status/754935670846529536 …
"Red" alert issued in Almaty, Kazakhstan after gunmen attack police station
http://ow.ly/VB2o302l4Hu
Arrest lists are known in advance claimed by EU......
- 3,000+ soldiers/high ranking officers
- 7,850 police officers
- 2,745 judges
- Higher Education Board meeting soon
Turkish government seemed to have list of arrests prepared: EU's Hahn - Reuters
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-security-eu-hahn-idUSKCN0ZY0EA?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Co ntent&utm_content=578c7f9e04d301515ee2e33e&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter …
"Planned coup"...certainly not...BUT a possible "staged coup"...most certainly......
THIS smacks of the "Iranian hotheads" move on the Iranian military in 1979/80......
Turkey has just had its own version of Röhm Putsch. Ataturkism is on its death bed.
OUTLAW 09
07-18-2016, 08:29 AM
One needs to urgently pay close attention to what this far right Russian ideologue says and writes as he has the ear of Putin and who is deeply tied into eastern Ukraine........NOTICE he brings for me the first time the interconnection between Turkish Islamists and the MB.....this would explain just why the former PM was recently fired...claiming he was to westward leaning....
Alexandr Dugin @A_G_Dugin
Post-Coup Turkey Will Be Distinctly Eurasian
The aftermath of the failed US-directed and Gulen-inspired coup attempt is already making itself clear, with Prime Minister Yildirim stating that Turkey might reinstate the death penalty to deal with the plotters. This statement is just as symbolic as it is substantial, since not only does it disprove allegations that Erdogan "planned this" himself for some Machiavellian purpose, but it also indicates that Turkey has decided to shun the West. The EU is strictly against the death penalty and would immediately halt the decades-long drawn-out accession negotiations with Turkey as a result.
Erdogan correctly calculated that the EU wants nothing to do with his country and that Turkey is unable to milk extra benefits from the bloc after the Brexit referendum, so he recalibrated his state's foreign policy to align with the multipolar world instead. This saw the recent news of Turkey belatedly declaring Al Nusra a terrorist organization and opening up secret reconciliation talks with Syria, despite still repeating the "face saving" refrain of "Assad must go". Furthermore, Turkey is part of Russia's nascent coalition of regional powers opposed to the US' daring attempt to militantly carve out the "second geopolitical Israel" of "Kurdistan". Not only that, but Turkey are Russia are also back on track for reimplementing the Balkan Stream megaproject, which when paired with China's complementary Balkan Silk Road high-speed rail project from Budapest to Piraeus, is perhaps the most ambitious multipolar outreach to Europe that has ever been attempted.
The US stands to lose many of its strategic gains in the past decade if any of these multipolar counteroffensives succeed, let alone all of them, which is why it desperately masterminded this last-ditch attempt to safeguard its unipolar hegemony. Try as it might, though, it was patently obvious what the US was doing, and even Syria's close Iranian ally - which many might otherwise think would have a relative interest in Erdogan's downfall - voiced its support for Turkey's "brave defense of democracy" via a tweet by Foreign Minister Zarif. Despite this statement being somewhat of an oxymoron, it proves that the Syrian government's most active on-the-ground ally understands the greater interests at play here and is thus standing behind Erdogan (however shocking this might seem to many) because of the bigger picture that was just elaborated on above.
As a closing forecast, it's very likely that Turkey will accelerate its multipolar pivot and finally embrace its Eurasian destiny, though not without forthcoming American-improvised Hybrid War challenges - a renewed Kurdish insurgency, left-wing terrorism, a Color Revolution, Daesh attacks, maritime proxy hostility via Greece, engineered provocations with Turkey's other neighbors, a civil war, and/or another feeble coup attempt -- in order to throw the progressively Islamifying and Muslim Brotherhood-inspired state into such chaos that it becomes impossible for its new multipolar partners to make any substantial use of its territory in their joint quest to dismantle the unipolar world order.
Alexandr Dugin @A_G_Dugin
Hillary Clinton connected with Fetullah Gulen
Alexandr Dugin @A_G_Dugin
Eurasian bloc in Turkey: Erdoğan and the Kemalists against Gülen and the US
OUTLAW 09
07-18-2016, 11:36 AM
Kerry warns Turkey’s NATO membership could be in jeopardy
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/world/wp/2016/07/18/kerry-warns-turkeys-nato-membership-could-be-in-jeopardy/?tid=sm_tw …
Key base near #Syria risks new #Turkey-#US tensions post-coup bid
https://www.yahoo.com/news/key-near-syria-risks-turkey-us-tensions-post-104553594.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=tw …
Turkey will be lost de-facto when it becomes an illiberal premodern tyranny. Even if it remains a NATO member formally.
OUTLAW 09
07-18-2016, 11:46 AM
The Turkish government is noted to be extremely slow...BUT it only took them SEVEN hours to put together a list of 4K to be fired from the judiciary, a list of 8k policemen and 21 police chiefs to be fired and or arrested....
It took only SEVEN hours to but together a list of all the senior commanders for the entire Army.......as well as a list of those who have been critical of Erdogan..........
Wow...this was a super fast Turkish government........
Erdogan acknowledges they knew about a "military activity" at least 7-10 hours before the coup
They named Gulen as the ring leader but produced no evidence and he even offered to come back to Turkey but no Turkish response...BUT then arrested a senior commander who was the brother of a high level AKP member?????
OUTLAW 09
07-18-2016, 11:54 AM
When you purge army, judiciary, interior ministry, ignore due process & promise executions. What does that sound like? Hmmm, a #TurkeyCoup?
This is balanced by a number of social media comments from the family members of some of the soldiers that have been arrested.....stating they had been told by their commanders that they were going on a short notice counter coup exercise...thus the minimum of ammo given to them...and or virtually no ammo...in some cases thus the quick surrender when confronted by civilians....
TurkeyPurge
- 30 provincial governors
- 47 district governors
- 8777 Interior Ministry staff (incl. police)
- 2745 judges
- 3000+ soldiers
It's pretty easy when you plan it yourself
Now Erdogan wants to seriously crash his own economy
BREAKING: 1,500 people sacked from Turkey's finance ministry
In order to purge thee sheer numbers ONE must start months ago compiling such lists...it simply cannot be done in 7-10 hours.....
The Greek COLs junta coup took months to plan and was to the end still purging....
OUTLAW 09
07-18-2016, 12:50 PM
Turkish prime minister: There could be 'a questioning of our friendship' with the US
http://read.bi/29OvkwM
Turkish PM on relations with US: "If our friends still ask us to show proof [of Gulen's role] we will... have to question our friendship."
OUTLAW 09
07-18-2016, 12:51 PM
Russia-backed Wikileaks about to release 100k hacked Turkey political docs.
Russia's information war on Turkey.
https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/754866748067807233 …
ANNOUNCE: Get ready for a fight as we release 100k+ docs on #Turkey's political power structure. #TurkeyCoup #Soon
Turks will likely be censored to prevent them reading our pending release of 100k+ docs on politics leading up to the coup.
We ask that Turks are ready with censorship bypassing systems such as TorBrowser and uTorrent
And that everyone else is ready to help them bypass censorship and push our links through the censorship to come
THIS will be interesting as I am betting many with have to do with Erdogan and his corruption.....
OUTLAW 09
07-18-2016, 12:56 PM
Kerry warns Turkey’s NATO membership could be in jeopardy
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/world/wp/2016/07/18/kerry-warns-turkeys-nato-membership-could-be-in-jeopardy/?tid=sm_tw …
Key base near #Syria risks new #Turkey-#US tensions post-coup bid
https://www.yahoo.com/news/key-near-syria-risks-turkey-us-tensions-post-104553594.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=tw …
Turkey will be lost de-facto when it becomes an illiberal premodern tyranny. Even if it remains a NATO member formally.
US Embassy denies Washington Post report on Kerry, says Turkey key ally to US, NATO and EU
http://www.dailysabah.com/politics/2016/07/18/us-embassy-denies-washington-post-report-on-kerry-says-turkey-key-ally-to-us-nato-and-eu …
Kerry: “People have been arrested very quickly” as Mogherini closes EU door if Turkey brings back death penalty
https://www.neweurope.eu/article/kerry-on-turkey-a-lot-of-people-have-been-arrested-very-quickly-as-mogherini-closes-eu-door-if-turkey-brings-back-death-penalty/ …
OUTLAW 09
07-18-2016, 01:39 PM
4.7% of the population now banned from leaving Turkey (public sector employees). Certain ppl w special passports can do so w prior consent.
davidbfpo
07-18-2016, 01:50 PM
WoTR has three good articles on the coup:http://warontherocks.com/2016/07/welcome-to-the-turkish-winter-the-great-purge-is-just-beginning/
OUTLAW 09
07-18-2016, 02:01 PM
BREAKING: Police and prosecutors begin search of #İncirlik NATO air base in #Turkey - @CNNTURK_ENG
Looks like Turkish government is trying to find evidence linking the #US to failed coup.
OUTLAW 09
07-18-2016, 02:06 PM
What's happened in Turkey was less a coup than Erdogan and the AKP massively trolling their enemies at home+abroad.
http://observer.com/2016/07/turkeys-weekend-of-the-long-knives/ …
TURKEY: Deputy Mayor of Sisli (#Istanbul district) shot and wounded as post-coup violence continues.
OUTLAW 09
07-18-2016, 04:36 PM
Michael Weiss
✔ @michaeldweiss Great detail: Did F16s really have lock-on on Erdogan's plane, which disguised itself as a Turkish Airlines craft?
Exclusive: all the details about the air ops and aerial battle over Turkey during the military coup
https://theaviationist.com/2016/07/18/exclusive-all-the-details-about-the-aerial-battle-over-turkey-during-the-military-coup/ …
Was this really a "coup" or a "military rebellion"..valid question???
OUTLAW 09
07-18-2016, 04:37 PM
stavridisj
✔ @stavridisj My take on the coup in Turkey and the implications for NATO in foreign-policy magazine
http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/07/18/turkey-and-nato-what-comes-next-is-messy-coup-erdogan-incirlik-air-base-nuclear-weapons/ …
Erdogan could convert counter-coup into Islamist counter-rev'n, ending Turkey’s status as secular democracy.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/turkey-faces-its-iran-1979-moment-1468797632 …
Turkey is resorting to the same bullying tactics used with the EU and recently with Germany.....
Turkey blames the failed coup on Fethullah Gulen, a cleric based in the United States who has a wide following in Turkey and denies any involvement.
Ankara has demanded Washington hand him over. Washington says it is prepared to extradite him but only if Turkey provides evidence linking him to crime. Yildirim rejected that demand.
"We would be disappointed if our (American) friends told us to present proof even though members of the assassin organization are trying to destroy an elected government under the directions of that person," Yildirim said.
"At this stage there could even be a questioning of our friendship," Yildirim added
BREAKING: #US Amb. to TR: Speculations US supported coup attempt categorically untrue, harmful to decades-long friendship - @CNNTURK_ENG
OUTLAW 09
07-18-2016, 05:12 PM
Russia-backed Wikileaks about to release 100k hacked Turkey political docs.
Russia's information war on Turkey.
https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/754866748067807233 …
ANNOUNCE: Get ready for a fight as we release 100k+ docs on #Turkey's political power structure. #TurkeyCoup #Soon
Turks will likely be censored to prevent them reading our pending release of 100k+ docs on politics leading up to the coup.
We ask that Turks are ready with censorship bypassing systems such as TorBrowser and uTorrent
And that everyone else is ready to help them bypass censorship and push our links through the censorship to come
THIS will be interesting as I am betting many with have to do with Erdogan and his corruption.....
Bet was won........
WikiLeaks
✔ @wikileaks #TurkeyCoup: AKP supporters should pay attention. Our pending megaleak of docs both helps & harms AKP. Are you ready to find it all?
WikiLeaks
✔ @wikileaks #TurkeyCoup: Our pending release of 100k docs on Turkish political power? Just kidding. The first batch is 300k emails, 500k docs.
This really going to get interesting as I am betting a number of the emails pertain to Erdogan and his son's corruptuion that started this mess in the first place.....
Best definition of Turkey's AKP ever: Islamist party seeking quasi-theocratic ends through quasi-democratic means.
https://twitter.com/20committee/status/755025707525369856 …
AND tied to the MB big time......
OUTLAW 09
07-18-2016, 05:56 PM
"Turkey’s military—2nd biggest in NATO—managed to stage a revolt that amounted to not much more than a battalion"
Tortured generals (like most of us grunts) will say anything to stop their torture
BREAKING: What's left of a Turkish general admits everything, including shooting down MH370, Erdogan told me personally via Twitter.
CNN Türk ENG
✔ @CNNTURK_ENG BREAKING TR President Erdoğan tells CNN #Turkey will make formal written request for Gulen's extradition w/in days.
Wkill be interesting to see what evidence they provide after the leak of the emails occurs.....
OUTLAW 09
07-18-2016, 06:31 PM
Top counter-terrorism official responsible for #Turkey’s campaign v #ISIS found with hands tied behind his back, shot in neck.
BREAKING: One of coup plotters aboard a “rebel” F-16 was the pilot who downed Russian Su-24 in Nov 2015. Arrested?
https://theaviationist.com/2016/07/18/exclusive-all-the-details-about-the-aerial-battle-over-turkey-during-the-military-coup/ …
OUTLAW 09
07-18-2016, 07:21 PM
Link to full transcript of #TurkeyCoup-plotters WhatsApp group. Feel free to contribute to translation:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vlzUDFGmYjtJZznLvJbRfHcYKmvdEtlSQxKUmSIUh0Q/edit …
Thanks everyone - all is being translated! Crowdsourcing is great. Will publish full translated transcript ASAP.
Many thanks everyone! Document is now being fully translated in English. I will make the document public as soon as possible.
The coupplotters' WhatsApp group confirms this. Currently analysing and cross-referencing all messages, write-up tomorrow on @bellingcat.
OUTLAW 09
07-18-2016, 07:24 PM
Turkish foreign minister rejects arrest lists claim
http://aa.com.tr/en/todays-headlines/turkish-foreign-minister-rejects-arrest-lists-claim/610653 …
OUTLAW 09
07-18-2016, 07:24 PM
Power to Incirlik air base in #Turkey is still cut, running on backup. Could eventually limit counter-ISIS fight says @PentagonPresSec.
OUTLAW 09
07-18-2016, 07:34 PM
President Erdoğan: "If the TBMM legislates for the death penalty, I'll sign it into law."
1. Army generals charged today. 2. Death penalty to be signed if parliament legislates. 3. Executions imminent.
Erdogan cannot leave Southern divisions without command. Needs to convince officers to agree. Hence the arrests and control in cities.
Erdogan needs argument to keep Southern officers at bay and divisions in positions, because he cannot stop those units.
BREAKING
Police officers in #Istanbul reportedly carrying out random checks on public mobile phones, checking Whatsapp messages, photos etc.
There are still groups active and trying to reorganize in Istanbul.
Turkey - Tension rises in eastern Turkish province amid reports of march on Alevi neighborhoods - LOCAL
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/Default.aspx?pageID=238&nID=101758&NewsCatID=341 …
Keep an eye on Turkish army barracks in East and South.
OUTLAW 09
07-19-2016, 05:57 AM
This well know retired former NSA and CI officer wrote an interesting article on the so call Turkish coup that should e read in full......
Upside: Erdogan is so busy destroying his own country he can''t flood Europe with refugees quite as quickly now.
http://observer.com/2016/07/turkeys-weekend-of-the-long-knives/ …
So was it a well controlled sting operation looking like a real coup????
This is an excellence piece by @20committee explaining the #TurkeyCoup & its implications.
One has to realize that trying to keep a coup a secret with over 100 Generals supposedly involved would be short of a miracle......the Hilter attempt had only five major planners.....
Reports indicate 112 Generals been arrested. Total # of generals in Turkish Armed Forces btw 360-375.
1 out of 3 generals are arrested.
OUTLAW 09
07-19-2016, 07:27 AM
2 pilots who shot down Russian plane arrested in coup purge. Erdogan will hand Putin their heads at next meeting. http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2016/07/19/Turkish-pilots-who-downed-Russian-jet-part-of-coup-plot-.html …
No visa-free travel for Turkey in 2016 despite deal: EU Commissioner
http://www.unian.info/world/1425118-no-visa-free-travel-for-turkey-in-2016-despite-deal-eu-commissioner.html …
OUTLAW 09
07-19-2016, 07:54 AM
Growing anticipation of Turks about the coming Wikileaks data dump of over 500K government/AKP emails and documents as those that do not support Erdogan hope to finally see some of what has been driving to cover up his and his family's corruption activates....
There are constant social media tips on how to over come the Turkish government shutdown of the net when they are leaked.......
OUTLAW 09
07-19-2016, 12:13 PM
The Associated Press
✔ @AP The Latest: 257 reportedly dismissed from Turkish prime minister's office.
http://apne.ws/29Lyn75
100 National Intelligence Agency (MİT) personnel suspended from duty in connection to failed coup attempt in Turkey
So two of Erdogan's top military aides were in fact Gulenist-affiliated "terrorists" ? That seems credible #Turkey
Breaking Erdogan's aide Colonel Erkan Kivrak arrested in Antalya #Turkey
492 employees of the Religious Affairs Directorate have been sacked #Turkey
OUTLAW 09
07-19-2016, 12:37 PM
Turkey's PM confirms in speech that an official request for Gulen's extradition was sent to the #US
Hello...anyone home in the Turkish government....US stated request with solid court reviewable evidence...not just a "request"........
Turkey pulled the same stunt when a German comedian was viewed as slandering Erdogan...they sent a request for his arrest.....Erdogan does not seem to quite understand Western law......
OUTLAW 09
07-19-2016, 01:43 PM
The Associated Press
✔ @AP The Latest: 257 reportedly dismissed from Turkish prime minister's office.
http://apne.ws/29Lyn75
100 National Intelligence Agency (MİT) personnel suspended from duty in connection to failed coup attempt in Turkey
So two of Erdogan's top military aides were in fact Gulenist-affiliated "terrorists" ? That seems credible #Turkey
Breaking Erdogan's aide Colonel Erkan Kivrak arrested in Antalya #Turkey
492 employees of the Religious Affairs Directorate have been sacked #Turkey
15200 personal/staff from #Turkish Education Ministry have been sacked for allegedly having ties to Gulen Mvmnt & #failedcoup.
What we are seeing is a complete reset of all Turkish State Institutions from secular to Islamist/MB with a right wing nationalist ideology.
Russians comparing Erdogan's purge to the Stalin era.
OUTLAW 09
07-19-2016, 01:50 PM
This is exactly what triggered the first round of serious Gezi demonstrations against Erdogan and which then led to charge of corruption against him and his son....over the construction contracts....
After failed coup, Turkey's Erdogan vows to build barracks in central Istanbul
http://read.bi/29R0inG
Turkey's media authority revokes broadcasting rights of all "parallel state" radio and TV stations.
http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/rtukten-flas-karar-butun-hepsi-iptal-40154575 …
3 critical newspapers - Yeni Hayat, Yarina Bakis and Ozgur Dusunce -- were refused for print publication. Their websites were also banned.
Higher Education Council requests the resignation of 1577 deans (all the deans of all of #Turkey's universities)
OUTLAW 09
07-19-2016, 02:31 PM
There is a persistent rumor going around that there are some missing Turkish naval vessels but nothing with names and then this.......the Admirals have not come out and clearly supported Erdogan as of yet....
Those admirals are close to Southern Division command officers - biggest threat to Erdogan.
https://twitter.com/andrewmichta/status/755368362062995459 …
Who knows? Russian Army TV: Turkish Deputy Prime Minister denied reports about the disappearance of 14 warships https://twitter.com/zvezdanews/status/755403767646912517 …
OUTLAW 09
07-19-2016, 02:58 PM
BREAKING Turkish FM avuşoğlu and Defence Minister Fikri Işık won't attend anti-ISIL ministerial meeting in Washington
Turkish FM and Defence Min won't be in Washington for anti-ISIL meeting b/c there is a National Security Council meeting in Ankara tomorrow
OUTLAW 09
07-19-2016, 03:26 PM
Al Arabiya English
✔ @AlArabiya_Eng #BREAKING: The #Turkish Press General Directory cancels 34 journalists' press cards
BREAKING: Turkish Education Ministry revokes licenses of 21,000 teachers in private institutions - ministry official
OUTLAW 09
07-19-2016, 04:28 PM
BreakingNews Turkish Media quoting officials: Martial law and state of emergency could be declared in #Turkey in the next few hours..
THIS after they declared the coup for ended ...but has it really ended?????
OUTLAW 09
07-19-2016, 04:43 PM
Al Arabiya English
✔ @AlArabiya_Eng #BREAKING: The #Turkish Press General Directory cancels 34 journalists' press cards
BREAKING: Turkish Education Ministry revokes licenses of 21,000 teachers in private institutions - ministry official
If you want to change a country at its most fundamental level take control of its education system & thus its future
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36838347?SThisFB …
OUTLAW 09
07-19-2016, 04:46 PM
The U.S. tried to kill Erdogan, says editor-in-chief of Turkish daily
http://wpo.st/Il9n1
Another Middle East country you thought was an ally actually believes you're a great satan.
http://www.yenisafak.com/en/columns/ibrahimkaragul/the-us-tried-to-assassinate-erdogan-2030493 …
OUTLAW 09
07-19-2016, 05:13 PM
Well it now appears that Erdogan and his regime is in fact Takfirist...as they are denying a Muslim a Muslim burial.....only the Takfirists can do that.....
Turkish Religious Affairs says mosques will not give religious services, won't do funeral praying for coup plotters.
OUTLAW 09
07-19-2016, 05:49 PM
CNN Trk ENG Verified account
@CNNTURK_ENG
Turkish PM asks U.S which asked for evidence to extradite Gulen: Did u ask for evidence for terrorists after 9/11
Before Gulen is extradited to #Turkey, a federal judge will have to weigh in as he is a US resident & will get due process says @PressSec
Turkey is sounding more and more like Putin in his accusations against the US....
Notice KSA has remained very very quiet.......
7,500 arrested, 20,000 sacked, travel ban imposed for 3 million in just 3 days & #Turkey's govt didnt stage the coup
59,628 people have been suspended, fired or stripped of professional accreditation since the coup attempt in Turkey http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-19/turkey-extends-purge-to-universities-asking-all-deans-to-go
OUTLAW 09
07-19-2016, 06:05 PM
The U.S. tried to kill Erdogan, says editor-in-chief of Turkish daily
http://wpo.st/Il9n1
Another Middle East country you thought was an ally actually believes you're a great satan.
http://www.yenisafak.com/en/columns/ibrahimkaragul/the-us-tried-to-assassinate-erdogan-2030493 …
.@USEmbassyTurkey aggressively trying to quash irresponsible, unsubstantiated rumors US was behind coup attempt. https://twitter.com/cnnturk_eng/status/755435338521309184 …
OUTLAW 09
07-19-2016, 06:09 PM
Turkey authorities to arrest dozens of government-critical high-profile journalists in the coming days: pro-govt source
Ah....the restoration of 'Democracy' gathers pace....
AND this was not "planned before hand" by Erdogan....come on.....
The scale of the purge is Stalinist, minus of course the Vysshaya Mera Nakazaniya: 1/3 of the military leadership and 1/3 of the judiciary. Now civil servants and educators are caught up in the widening purge...
There is talk of Erdogan creating an Islamist paramilitary loyal to the AKP and of establishing a garrison in Gezi Park, the better to control Istanbul.
There seems to be no mechanism in place to prevent Erdogan from becoming an authoritarian supreme leader. After the "convenient" Daesh attacks that secured the AKP's election victory, I doubt that the Turkish people will be trusted to choose wisely again...
Now, Yeni Safak claims that the coup plotters were part of the "FET/PDY terrorist organization (http://www.yenisafak.com/en/news/number-of-martyred-increases-to-240-in-turkish-coup-attempt-2496470)".
Sounds suspiciously like the case of the Trotskyite-Zinovievite Terrorist Center, does it not?
OUTLAW 09
07-20-2016, 06:34 AM
The scale of the purge is Stalinist, minus of course the Vysshaya Mera Nakazaniya: 1/3 of the military leadership and 1/3 of the judiciary. Now civil servants and educators are caught up in the widening purge...
There is talk of Erdogan creating an Islamist paramilitary loyal to the AKP and of establishing a garrison in Gezi Park, the better to control Istanbul.
There seems to be no mechanism in place to prevent Erdogan from becoming an authoritarian supreme leader. After the "convenient" Daesh attacks that secured the AKP's election victory, I doubt that the Turkish people will be trusted to choose wisely again...
Azor....now you are getting the game Erdogan has been playing together with IS....he allowed a massive flow of IS fighters to clear through turkey into Syria as they were "viewed as fighting Assad", he allowed them to R&R inside Syria, then "fell into line" when the US applied pressure on him to fight IS but realize he never really did clamp down on them inside Turkey and he has really never broken close ties to Russia all the while "selling himself" as the coming restorer of the Ottoman Emprise...
He supported Is close anti Assad forces in and around Aleppo to keep the other anti Assad forces ie FSA in line and dependent on his resupply......
AND then when they were under massive Assad, Putin and Iranian pressure he does nothing for them after leading them on for over 5 years......
Right now the heavy weapons/munitions flow into the anti Assad forces are coming via the UAE and KSA....not Turkey.
This sums up what many Turks think....that are not AKP supporters and that is about 60% of the country right now.......Erdogan plays to the right wing of Islam and the more conservative areas or Turkey and he definitely wants a non secular Turkey.....
I track this commenter for a number of years now.......
Full moon setting over Nuruosmaniye Mosque (left) & Bayezid II Mosque (3rd img)
(Between them; Corruption)
Gnaydın!
We seriously now have to look at the role of the Muslim Brotherhood and their ties to the AKP....
Hopefully the data dump announced by WikiLeaks will shed some light on a number of the corruption affairs Erdogan was/is tied into and the MB.....
Hassan Hassan @hxhassan
It might be easier if Ankara just releases a list of people not involved in the coup plot.
Watching this program on Al Jazeera.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p_yN41SN_FI
A Turkish defense analyst, Can Kasapoglu, explains that, "two and three star generals", attempted to dissuade soldiers from obeying orders from the coup plotters. Kasapoglu then crowed that only one senior officer (Ozturk) was involved in the coup and that the Turkish people were aware that the Turkish military did not support the coup.
If this is the case, then why were 1/3 of senior officers purged?
Also, to Outlaw 09, do you think that the Diyarbakir Rally bombing was done by Daesh or by Erdogan/AKP partisans who wanted to halt the HDP's progress? It would be reminiscent of the Russian apartment buildings in '99...
OUTLAW 09
07-20-2016, 07:24 AM
Now, Yeni Safak claims that the coup plotters were part of the "FET/PDY terrorist organization (http://www.yenisafak.com/en/news/number-of-martyred-increases-to-240-in-turkish-coup-attempt-2496470)".
Sounds suspiciously like the case of the Trotskyite-Zinovievite Terrorist Center, does it not?
This is exactly why Erdogan does not care about Turks in general the same people he claims to want to be leading......
After a long bloody and brutal Kurdish PKK war....were thousands were killed..it was actually winding down with compromises on both sides....Kurdish language classes in the schools, local no military Kurdish political parties allowed and the PKK pulling into northern Iraq.
Then after the Gezi demonstrations and the following election where Erdogan did not win the majority and where he thought we would because the legal Kurdish party took 13% he was effectively blocked from creating his one man rule under a right wing Islamist/MB AKP party...suddenly then so called PKK/IS attacks started, and he ripped up all compromises with the PKK and basically declared the legal Kurdish opposition party "traitors" and stripped them of their parliamentary immunity then held new elections where he ran on an law and order agenda and won big time.
Thus he was home free and clear...BUT he was still not fully able to kick out the secular concept set in place by Ataturk.
There have been rumors of the last several years that portions of the military were not so happy with Erdogan and they felt he was destroying the secular nature of Turkey...what the coupists I think did not take into consideration was that the majority of all Turks have had enough of military dictatorships and thus would have never supported it.
The interesting question is...knowing that a coup was in the wind and coming did Erdogan and his supporters allow it knowing it would fail and then use it to completely cleanse Turkey of all secular aspects.
IMHO...definitely yes they did.
Why do I say that...Erdogan himself alluded a number of times to a possible coup for over the last 18 or so months...
OUTLAW 09
07-20-2016, 07:46 AM
RELEASE: 294,548 emails from Turkey's ruling political party, Erdoğan's AKP
https://wikileaks.org/akp-emails/
Will be interesting to see what the take up is on this as it requires Turkish translations first.....
WikiLeaks has published 294,546 emails along with thousands of attached files from 762 mail boxes that allegedly belong to the primary email domain of Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan's ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP).
The most recent email in the trove released by the whistle-blowing organisation on Tuesday was sent on July 6, 2016. The oldest dates back to 2010.
"It should be noted that emails associated with the domain are mostly used for dealing with the world, as opposed to the most sensitive internal matters," WikiLeaks said on its official website.
WikiLeaks said it obtained the emails a week before Friday's attempted coup.
"WikiLeaks has moved forward its publication schedule in response to the government's post-coup purges.
We have verified the material and the source, who is not connected, in any way, to the elements behind the attempted coup, or to a rival political party or state," the organisation said.
WikiLeaks previously claimed that the Turkish government would attempt to censor the distribution of the documents, and urged the Turkish public to be ready to bypass any government attempts at blocking access to the material.
"Turks will likely be censored to prevent them reading our pending release of 100k+ docs on politics leading up to the coup," the organisation said on Monday via Twitter.
"We ask that Turks are ready with censorship bypassing systems such as TorBrowser and uTorrent. And that everyone else is ready to help them bypass censorship and push our links through the censorship to come."
WikiLeaks later claimed that its infrastructure was "under sustained attack," following its announcement of the imminent publication of the AKP emails.
"We are unsure of the true origin of the attack. The timing suggests a Turkish state power faction or its allies. We will prevail & publish," WikiLeaks said on Twitter.
Being not a fan of WikiLeaks I find this actually a good move on their part regardless of what politics they have behind the release....as it will allow a deeper understanding of Erdogan and his AKP...
AND based on the DoS, DDoS attacks on their site....the emails are being perceived as damaging by someone inside Turkey....
In the ME perception rules over everything else...
OUTLAW 09
07-20-2016, 08:22 AM
Azor......ever hear of this group...check the video....interesting to see who is behind them....
Check out http://youtu.be/999sJ6JRcFI to see USA's finger in Turkish coup attempt!
Once a "perceived" rumor/narrative gets into circulation that "perception" becomes reality in the ME.....
OUTLAW 09
07-20-2016, 09:15 AM
We can sum up everything that has happened using history as the guiding light into this darkness.......
Famous Watergate Question applies to what happened in Turkey Friday night: "What did they know and when did they know it ?"
What has been largely overlooked and it goes to this statement above....Erdogan when travelling never really ever had a F16 fighter escort....as he travelled on his own personal jet.
Friday night he had a fighter escort did he not and his own personal jet was using a Turkish airline transponder code not his own Flightradar 24 transponder code that was normally used??????? AND he had left his scheduled hotel in "quietness"....and far earlier than anticipated before the planned coup raid team arrived to capture him.....
OUTLAW 09
07-20-2016, 10:14 AM
YES they knew three days in advance....now confirmed.....
Chief Gen’s aide: “I learnt about the coup in the morning of 14 July 2016 at around 10.00”
Chief Gen’s aide: “I wiretapped former Chief Necdet Ozel. I was putting a small device in his room every morning. I recorded everything”
Chief Gen’s aide: “I was a top student but Gulen brothers provided me w the questions of the military exam the day before anyway in 1989”
Chief General’s aide-de-camp confesses he is a Gulenist. “I was a poor kid, met Gülen brothers in high school. I dreamt to be soldier”
Chief Gen’s aide: “When I became an orderly officer I started to apply the commands coming from Gulen brothers”
BUT WAIT this does not make sense..if he was a thorough Gulenist...then why did he plant the bug and know about the coup in advance????
Sounds awful like they are simply "staging the evidence" that Gulen was behind the coup and giving the government reasons to shut down so many Gulen sponsored schools and fire so many teachers.....
OUTLAW 09
07-20-2016, 10:53 AM
Turkish parliament dismisses eight executives as purge against Gulenists continues
http://bit.ly/29T6o78
This is seriously starting to look like the German Rhoem putsch under Hilter...now attacks on suspected liberal, left and or Gulen bookstores....
In der Türkei werden offenbar Buchläden gestürmt und zerstört. (Montag)
https://www.facebook.com/roj24news/videos/1746052388999547/ …
Turkey bans academics from travel in latest post-coup measure
OUTLAW 09
07-20-2016, 12:10 PM
Turkey blocks access to WikiLeaks after ruling party email dump
http://reut.rs/29TgbKH
@wikileaks Turks blocked from WikiLeaks can use a proxy or any of our IPs
https://141.105.65.113/akp-emails/ (confirm security exception)
Lawrence Wilkerson told Russian state-run Sputnik News that the CIA was behind the Turkish coup.
http://m.sputniknews.com/analysis/20160720/1043321847/cia-coup-turkey-part.html …
BREAKING: Turkish government preparing to withdraw teaching licenses from 21,000 teachers in private institutions
BREAKING: 96 academics suspended from #Istanbul University
OUTLAW 09
07-20-2016, 12:44 PM
Some of the Erdogan AKP supporters have been hitting the "incense burner a little to hard lately"......even out does the Russian "vodka moments".....
Pro-Erdoğan journalist Alper Tan says #Turkey's gov’t has the right to attack Gülen’s house in US with drones
http://ow.ly/Hlrx302qydr
Turkey's National Security Council meeting now under president Erdoğan.
Prepare for the worst.
Erdoğan to announce "important decision" today, rumored to be imposing state of emergency
http://ow.ly/5Xkr302q2VF
Turkey bans academics from work trips abroad and urges those overseas to quickly return home
http://ow.ly/7K88302qaFz
EU official: “But we just can’t deny any more what is going on [in #Turkey]. Visa liberalisation is dead for the moment..."
May have not been important for Erdogan but it was massively important for the Turks as a whole due to having deep connections to friends and relatives in the rest of the EU....
The restoration of 'democracy' continues...
via @BenjaminBilski
OUTLAW 09
07-20-2016, 01:34 PM
Even though Erdogan does not care if the EU let's him in or not...he does care about NATO membership even if he looks like he is warming up to Putin...why he still views Greece as an "enemy" and NATO as a way to keep them in check PLUS the nice massive funding flow that comes in yearly for NATO base use.
At a time when his own economy will be taking a massive hit over the next years.......because business investment does not like turmoil......
Turkey coup attempt: Risk of Nato suspension as Erdogan's purge intensifies
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/18/turkey-coup-attempt-istanbul-deputy-mayor-shot-in-the-head/ …
He cannot be kicked out of NATO but he can be suspended......for not adhering to the democratic principles that guide NATO....
So now he is bribing his own public by enticing them with construction jobs....who will own the construction companies...Erdogan naturally especially after Gezi....using land he probably already owns.
Erdogan Vows to Build Bosphorus Bypass Canal
http://www.maritime-executive.com/article/erdogan-vows-to-build-bosporus-bypass-canal …
Turkey Pro Erdogan columnists now claiming ExPM Davutoglu was in contact with putschists and would lead the new gov if coup had succeeded.
CNN Türk ENG
✔ @CNNTURK_ENG BREAKING Turkish Def Min launches investigation on all military judges and prosecutors, suspends 262 of them.
OUTLAW 09
07-20-2016, 01:40 PM
This will interesting to see if Erdogan let's it go ahead and or brutally puts it down as he did in Gezi......
Grkan zturan @Obefintlig
Main opposition CHP to hold an anti-coup rally on July 24, sunday in #Taksim Square inviting all who are against coups and pro-democracy.
OUTLAW 09
07-20-2016, 01:51 PM
New screen set up on Istanbul's Taksim Square. Major announcement from Erdogan expected today.
This is interesting as it confirms previous comments that some of the troops actually thought they were on an snap anti coup exercise thus were not often even armed with ammo.
Soldiers sent for president told target a 'terrorist':
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/20/europe/turkey-failed-coup-attempt/index.html …
Would also explain why the F16s did not shot him down......after recognition was made....
OUTLAW 09
07-20-2016, 03:31 PM
I added numbers of sacked employees in 5 days of crackdown based on official statements: 67,473 employees sacked as of this hour then this .....now over 74K.
Turkish Edu Min suspends 6,538 people in second wave of dismissals after #TurkeyCoupAttempt.
http://turkey.liveuamap.com/en/2016/20-july-turkish-edu-min-suspends-6538-people-in-second-wave …
That means if these 74K were not mad at the government before the coup they will definitely mad now.....
Police storm headquarters of Meydan newspaper, top editors @LeventKenez and @gulizbaki arrested
http://turkey.liveuamap.com/en/2016/20-july-police-storm-headquarters-of-meydan-newspaper-top …
OUTLAW 09
07-20-2016, 03:55 PM
An extremely interesting point that is actually true that is forgotten in the Erdogan junta coup.........
Turkish military was "the most cohesive element of Turkish society" And now?
http://buff.ly/29Yjsdh
The Turkish public had a high respect for the Turkish military...especially appealing as an organization to get into...
OUTLAW 09
07-20-2016, 04:24 PM
Erdogan is still in bed with IS which is still in bed with Russia and Iran......
French intel: 100 jihadis enter Syria from Turkey each week
http://thehill.com/policy/defense
Under Turkey's pressure, Azerbaijan shuts down its largest private university, founded by businessmen close to Gulen.
More #TurkeyPurge #'s:
- 492 from Religious Affairs Dept
- 393 from Family & Social Policy Min.
- 70 from Environment & Urbanization Min.
CNN Türk ENG
✔ @CNNTURK_ENG BREAKING State-run AA says Turkish Edu Min starts process to close down 626 schools and institutions after #TurkeyCoupAttempt.
OUTLAW 09
07-20-2016, 05:27 PM
BREAKING — Turkey sends 2 F-16 warplanes for observational flight after 2 missing Turkish coastguard vessels appear in Greek waters
Erdogan’s Final Agenda
http://www.oasiscenter.eu/press-review
Some ppl in Ankara r thinking abt leaving NATO.Next week Erdogan meets Putin who wld love to see it happens
Erdogan owes his survival to pillars of civil society he has eroded & seeks to weaken further
You can't purge tens of thousands f/govt in days unless you've been keeping a list for some time
Erdogan's civil service purge is about settling scores, not punishing coup
Erdogan has long persecuted opponents based on false conspiracies. Now he has a real conspiracy
Erdogan and Daesh
I have seen you and Crowbat discuss Russia’s accusation that Erdogan was in league with Daesh, in the aftermath of the Su-24 shootdown, on the Syria thread. Both of you claimed that Erdogan was directly supporting Muslim Brotherhood-inspired rebel units in Syria, in addition to the FSA, and that because he believed that the PYD-PKK was more of a threat to Turkey, he resisted efforts to target Daesh forces that were in contact with the Assadists and the PYD. However, your more recent comments on this thread suggest complicity if not conspiracy with Daesh rather than turning a blind eye due to prioritizing the PYD and Assad.
Erdogan and Putin
It took Erdogan over 6 months to apologize to Putin for the Su-24 shootdown, before which he was defiant. Yet soon after the incident, the Turkish-Kurdish conflict flared up significantly, which I have always assumed was at Moscow’s instigation (arms and funding) and the PYD began to receive close-air support from the Russians in Syria. After months of this and increasing tensions with secularists in the military, Erdogan apologizes to Putin who quickly re-establish ties as if months of anti-Turkish propaganda and economic measures had never happened, and Erdogan turns to rooting out opposition in the military. Interestingly, the Mayor of Ankara seems almost willing to extradite the F-16 pilots to Russia now that they have been caught up in the counter-coup dragnet (http://tass.ru/en/world/889217)
Back to the Coup
It sounds more and more like the coup was a desperate move by a small military faction that did not have widespread popular or military support, and which due to their bungling ended up bringing the Islamists’ wrath down. Only a few dozen soldiers seemed prepared to kill for the coup and the regiment or brigade deployed to seize vital infrastructure was unaware of its true mission and unprepared to use force to accomplish it.
Do you believe those goofs at “Newsbud” that the US was behind the coup? So MSNBC reports a rumor that Erdogan is seeking asylum in Germany and then the UK and that constitutes support for the coup?
If the US had wanted to overthrow Erdogan it could have deployed special forces from Incirlik to help the plotters capture the AKP leadership, and used electronic and cyberwarfare capabilities to disrupt social media and communication among AKP loyalists.
Do you have a source for what the Chief General’s Aide-de-Camp said?
It sounds as though the AKP and Erdogan were well-informed that a coup was possible prior to the August 2016 meeting of the Supreme Military Council, during which further purges similar to Ergenekon were expected. The fact that the coup had so little support within the military but that so many of the leadership had been arrested could be an issue more of complicity rather than conspiracy (which seemed to be limited to colonels and below). Basically, Erdogan considers any general officer who did not actively work against the coup to be treasonous…
If Erdogan was aware, then he could have taken measures earlier rather than allow this deadly theater to unfold in the streets and skies above Istanbul and Ankara.
The suggestion that Turkey may be suspended from NATO is an interesting one. Quite frankly, I think that NATO views Erdogan as a liability and the reduced footprint in Turkey, whether the withdrawn F-15s or Patriot batteries, is indicative of a desire to reduce risk. I would not be surprised if the tactical nuclear bombs at Incirlik have already been moved secretly or are in the process of being moved.
Question – how much of Erdogan’s purge is legal? I know that if a similar mutiny or attempted coup occurred in the United States, the POTUS could not simply arrest and sack a professor in Alaska that he disliked…
https://www.flightradar24.com/a67396c
Watching an aircraft without a callsign perform loops around the Aegean just west of Marmaris. It originated in Feke district where there are no airports...
Assuming the aircraft is military, then the closest airports would be at Diyarbakir (F-16s; 382 km from Feke) and Erhac/Malatya (F-4E; 229 km from Feke). This would require aerial refueling then for the distance from Feke to Datca.
It has circled multiple times over the Datca Peninsula and Koca Ada Isl., with a lesser focus on the coastline east of Bodrum.
Could it be searching for missing ships from Marmaris, which is home to a naval and coast guard base?
UPDATE:
A second no-callsign aircraft has appeared headed for the same area with the same originating point. Passing the baton? (20:13 UTC)
First plane is now heading southeast toward Cyprus, while the second takes up position over the Datca Peninsula (20:26 UTC)
First plane disappeared from radar coverage over the Mediterranean and second plane turning back from Datca to originating point (20:30 UTC)
Second plane suddenly whipped around again and is heading back out toward Datca (20:36 UTC)
https://www.flightradar24.com/a67396c
Watching an aircraft without a callsign perform loops around the Aegean just west of Marmaris. It originated in Feke district where there are no airports...
Assuming the aircraft is military, then the closest airports would be at Diyarbakir (F-16s; 382 km from Feke) and Erhac/Malatya (F-4E; 229 km from Feke). This would require aerial refueling then for the distance from Feke to Datca.
It has circled multiple times over the Datca Peninsula and Koca Ada Isl., with a lesser focus on the coastline east of Bodrum.
Could it be searching for missing ships from Marmaris, which is home to a naval and coast guard base?
UPDATE:
A second no-callsign aircraft has appeared headed for the same area with the same originating point. Passing the baton? (20:13 UTC)
First plane is now heading southeast toward Cyprus, while the second takes up position over the Datca Peninsula (20:26 UTC)
First plane disappeared from radar coverage over the Mediterranean and second plane turning back from Datca to originating point (20:30 UTC)
Second plane suddenly whipped around again and is heading back out toward Datca (20:36 UTC)
Second plane has continued to circle around Datca. A third has appeared on the same track, appearing at Zengen, some 149 km east of the military airport at Konya (22:15 UTC)
OUTLAW 09
07-21-2016, 04:46 AM
Erdogan and Daesh
I have seen you and Crowbat discuss Russia’s accusation that Erdogan was in league with Daesh, in the aftermath of the Su-24 shootdown, on the Syria thread. Both of you claimed that Erdogan was directly supporting Muslim Brotherhood-inspired rebel units in Syria, in addition to the FSA, and that because he believed that the PYD-PKK was more of a threat to Turkey, he resisted efforts to target Daesh forces that were in contact with the Assadists and the PYD. However, your more recent comments on this thread suggest complicity if not conspiracy with Daesh rather than turning a blind eye due to prioritizing the PYD and Assad.
Erdogan and Putin
It took Erdogan over 6 months to apologize to Putin for the Su-24 shootdown, before which he was defiant. Yet soon after the incident, the Turkish-Kurdish conflict flared up significantly, which I have always assumed was at Moscow’s instigation (arms and funding) and the PYD began to receive close-air support from the Russians in Syria. After months of this and increasing tensions with secularists in the military, Erdogan apologizes to Putin who quickly re-establish ties as if months of anti-Turkish propaganda and economic measures had never happened, and Erdogan turns to rooting out opposition in the military. Interestingly, the Mayor of Ankara seems almost willing to extradite the F-16 pilots to Russia now that they have been caught up in the counter-coup dragnet (http://tass.ru/en/world/889217)
Back to the Coup
It sounds more and more like the coup was a desperate move by a small military faction that did not have widespread popular or military support, and which due to their bungling ended up bringing the Islamists’ wrath down. Only a few dozen soldiers seemed prepared to kill for the coup and the regiment or brigade deployed to seize vital infrastructure was unaware of its true mission and unprepared to use force to accomplish it.
Do you believe those goofs at “Newsbud” that the US was behind the coup? So MSNBC reports a rumor that Erdogan is seeking asylum in Germany and then the UK and that constitutes support for the coup?
If the US had wanted to overthrow Erdogan it could have deployed special forces from Incirlik to help the plotters capture the AKP leadership, and used electronic and cyberwarfare capabilities to disrupt social media and communication among AKP loyalists.
Do you have a source for what the Chief General’s Aide-de-Camp said?
It sounds as though the AKP and Erdogan were well-informed that a coup was possible prior to the August 2016 meeting of the Supreme Military Council, during which further purges similar to Ergenekon were expected. The fact that the coup had so little support within the military but that so many of the leadership had been arrested could be an issue more of complicity rather than conspiracy (which seemed to be limited to colonels and below). Basically, Erdogan considers any general officer who did not actively work against the coup to be treasonous…
If Erdogan was aware, then he could have taken measures earlier rather than allow this deadly theater to unfold in the streets and skies above Istanbul and Ankara.
The suggestion that Turkey may be suspended from NATO is an interesting one. Quite frankly, I think that NATO views Erdogan as a liability and the reduced footprint in Turkey, whether the withdrawn F-15s or Patriot batteries, is indicative of a desire to reduce risk. I would not be surprised if the tactical nuclear bombs at Incirlik have already been moved secretly or are in the process of being moved.
Question – how much of Erdogan’s purge is legal? I know that if a similar mutiny or attempted coup occurred in the United States, the POTUS could not simply arrest and sack a professor in Alaska that he disliked…
Azor....as always.....good comments.
IMHO if you look at all I have posted here and on the Syrian thread and what CrowBat says there is a four way axis between IS/AQ, Iran, Russia and Turkey all using IS/AQ for each of their own political end goals.
I have posted a number of links on the Syrian thread from well respected ME/Syrian SMEs who have been saying this for a long while that this axis exists and have pointed to a overwhelming amount of evidence to back it up.
Yesterdays US Treasury statement also posted clearly shows via their threat finance analysis the same exact linkage.
BUT no one in the West especially the Obama/Rhodes WH wants to go down that path...the question is WHY????
What Erdogan is currently doing is not in synch with their legal system...that is why they just declared a 90 emergency allowing him to now do what he has already done...he is now a full scale dictator......
OUTLAW 09
07-21-2016, 11:53 AM
BREAKING: TURKEY WILL TEMPORARILY SUSPEND THE EUROPEAN CONVENTION ON HUMAN RIGHTS
http://www.hotnews.ro/stiri-21173464-.htm …
OUTLAW 09
07-21-2016, 12:22 PM
Tehran news media outlet Farsnews is saying the Russians warned Erdogan of the impending coup......
https://archive.is/CJgFh#selection-899.0-910.1
Several Arab media outlets quoted diplomatic sources in Ankara as saying that Turkey's National Intelligence Organization, known locally as the MIT, received intel from its Russian counterpart that warned of an impending coup in the Muslim state.
The unnamed diplomats said the Russian army in the region had intercepted highly sensitive army exchanges and encoded radio messages showing that the Turkish army was readying to stage a coup against the administration in Ankara.
The exchanges included dispatch of several army choppers to President Erdogan's resort hotel to arrest or kill the president.
The diplomats were not sure of the Russian station that had intercepted the exchanges, but said the Russian army intelligence unit deployed in Khmeimim (also called Hmeimim) in Syria's Northern province of Lattakia is reportedly equipped with state-of-the-art electronic and eavesdropping systems to gather highly sensitive information for the Russian squadrons that are on an anti-terrorism mission in Syria.
Continued.....
OUTLAW 09
07-21-2016, 12:53 PM
We intr'vd rights lawyer Orhan Kemal Cengiz yesterday on Turkey's crackdown. Today he was detained at IST airport.
http://wapo.st/2aisYJV
Very concerned to hear from columnist & human rights lawyer Orhan Kemal Cengiz & writer Sibel Hurtas they are detained at Ataturk airport +
OUTLAW 09
07-21-2016, 01:17 PM
Austria summons Turkish ambassador, says Ankara may have organized pro-Erdogan protests in Vienna -
http://www.wsj.com/articles/turkish-protests-in-vienna-incited-by-ankara-says-austrian-foreign-minister-1469102477 …
Similar demonstrations also broke out in Germany...
Greek court gives suspended sentence to Turkish officers who fled coup @AFP
CNN Türk ENG
✔ @CNNTURK_ENG BREAKING Turkey's Dep PM Mehmet Simsek tells Reuters that more than 1,000 ppl in the military are still on the run.
Ex-Air Force commander Gen. Ozturk accused by Turkey of masterminding the coup. Turkish military is denying it. https://twitter.com/AliKINCAL/status/756114210292203520 …
AM News: Russia Criticizes NATO for Inaction On Turkey;
http://www.interpretermag.com/russia-update-july-21-2016/#14635 …
And will Turkey suspend all international agreements, elections just to keep #Erdogan in power longer (like Putin)? https://twitter.com/AP/status/756105652758609920 …
OUTLAW 09
07-21-2016, 02:06 PM
We intr'vd rights lawyer Orhan Kemal Cengiz yesterday on Turkey's crackdown. Today he was detained at IST airport.
http://wapo.st/2aisYJV
Very concerned to hear from columnist & human rights lawyer Orhan Kemal Cengiz & writer Sibel Hurtas they are detained at Ataturk airport +
Were arrested for writing a long article on why did Erdogan take so long to respond when he knew in advance...two days...before the coup...two days is a long time in coup time....
OUTLAW 09
07-21-2016, 03:09 PM
Syrian Assad accused Erdogan of trying to use the coup for the Islamization of Turkey
http://turkey.liveuamap.com/en/2016/21-july-assad-accused-erdogan-of-trying-to-use-the-coup-for …
Wow...a genocidal dictator calling out an Islamist dictator ......the kettle calling the pot black so to speak....
OUTLAW 09
07-22-2016, 08:51 AM
Article 25 of State of Emergency Act spells doom for Turkish journalists and analysts - punishes "exaggerated" news.
Point of inquiry: has anyone found those three coup F-16s? Still missing as far as I've heard.
Turkish TV channel names certain theatre actors as traitors. Owned by close Erdogan associate.
http://m.ahaber.com.tr/webtv/gundem/millete-dusman-tiyatrocular …
"The purge goes far beyond the need to preserve the security of the state."
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21702465-turkeys-president-destroying-democracy-turks-risked-their-lives-defend-erdogans?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/erdogansrevenge …
BREAKING: No obstacle to extending Turkey's state of emergency beyond initial three months - Erdogan tells Reuters
He will rule now as a single dictator using the Emergency Powers that will never be rescinded….
The defeat of the military coup seems to have opened the way for Erdogan's counter-coup
http://econ.st/2afzVbL
BUT WAIT…just another excuse to extend the 90 day Emergency Powers
Erdogan says new coup "possible"
http://www.unian.info/world/1431232-erdogan-says-new-coup-possible.html …
OUTLAW 09
07-22-2016, 09:08 AM
This morning a military officer attempted to commit suicide by jumping off the Bosphorus Bridge in #Istanbul
Police forces convinced him not to jump. Some Turkish media suggest he is a pro-coup officer, but this seems unconfirmed so far #Turkey
Pres #Erdogan "is acting like a vengeful sultan" in response to failed coup says the @TheEconomist
http://econ.st/29Qt2LR
OUTLAW 09
07-22-2016, 10:24 AM
Turkey spent the better part of the last ten years checking off the 36 blocks necessary to join the EU and had completed 26 of the required 36....then about two years ago under Erdogan started to back track and drag their feet all the while claiming it was the fault of the EU......
Then they attempted to blackmail the EU with the free visa travel in exchange for refugee flow controls which the EU reluctantly did .......
Then it now appears they really do not care about the EU free visa travel as Erdogan attempts to bring back the death penalty......which is an automatic reject of the free visa travel and EU membership....
WHAT will slow down Erdogan is the US/NATO talk of suspending Turkey from NATO which they can in fact do and that would cut millions flowing into Turkey at a time when the Turkish economy has been stagnating under Erdogan.....
BREAKING: Turkish Justice Minister says death penalty is a legal matter and should not be of any concern to the EU
OUTLAW 09
07-22-2016, 08:05 PM
Turkish Court of Accounts dismisses 108 personnel over failed coup attempt
https://www.turkishminute.com/2016/07/22/turkish-court-accounts-dismisses-108-alleged-links-failed-coup-attempt/ …
Turkish Court of Accounts dismisses 108 personnel over failed coup attempt
https://www.turkishminute.com/2016/07/22/turkish-court-accounts-dismisses-108-alleged-links-failed-coup-attempt/ …
This Court specifically deals with public finances, so it could be related to the corruption allegations against Erdogan that coincided with his split from Gulen. Again, another instance of the purge deviating from anti-coup to anti-opposition.
OUTLAW 09
07-23-2016, 07:25 AM
This Court specifically deals with public finances, so it could be related to the corruption allegations against Erdogan that coincided with his split from Gulen. Again, another instance of the purge deviating from anti-coup to anti-opposition.
Azor....what is extremely interesting in all of this that has gotten totally lost in the Erdogan narrative is that in fact the Gulen movement inside Islam is a very interesting development and brings with it for the first time in over 1000 years a possibility of a "reformational movement" inside Islam that bodes well for the future....for Islam itself and it allows a secular/modernist way forward for Islam and could in fact counter the "traditionalist viewpoint" of say Erdogan /AKP/IS/AQ......and even the MB.
That is the true threat Erdogan sees in Gulen.......
What is interesting is how deep the Gulen movement had and still is inside the Turkish society.....
That is what is meant behind the Erdogan statement....."we will tear out the evil by it's roots".....
He is doomed though to fail over the long haul as ideas never can be stopped once started....as one cannot "tear" them out of the head of the individual.
Everything thing he thinks he is doing to counter the coup will in the end just strengthen the personal beliefs of a Gulen individual...because it will prove to that individual that Gulen was/is correct.
Might take years but in the end hate to say it...Erdogan is already losing....
OUTLAW 09
07-23-2016, 07:28 AM
Erdogan has signed decree to close 1043 pvt schools, 1229 charities, 19 unions, 15 unis, 35 med centers,
extend detention period to 30 days
OUTLAW 09
07-23-2016, 11:26 AM
Erdogan and his AKP/MB has not quite figured out that the rest of the world while not condoning coup's simply does not like the counter coup to produce a dictator who cuts a long tradition of democracy claiming he is protecting democracy......
Turkey keen for mention in G20 communique, but rejected
http://reut.rs/2a13r8T
Just what was he thinking or maybe not thinking????
The Turkish economy has been really struggling and will fall into the deep end in about a month or two and he needs foreign funds to flow and he will not be getting them....
AND even his AKP members are angry now at the EU for potentially not allowing free visa travel to the rest of the EU.....they seem to not understand the connection to democratic principles and free visa travel...per EU....
OUTLAW 09
07-23-2016, 12:51 PM
This Court specifically deals with public finances, so it could be related to the corruption allegations against Erdogan that coincided with his split from Gulen. Again, another instance of the purge deviating from anti-coup to anti-opposition.
Azor...now we are getting back to your original comment....was it a false flag or not ?????
New York Times World
✔ @nytimesworld Failed Turkish coup accelerated a purge years in the making
http://nyti.ms/29Uq8WA
Erdogan and the AKP/MB have for years wanted to swing the Turkish secularism towards Islamic fundamentalism......
They were simply waiting and took and or provoked the disgruntled military elements....into action OR helped along the way.
OUTLAW 09
07-23-2016, 12:53 PM
Extended period of detention w/out charge: Turkey's Erdogan signs first decree under state of emergency http://in.mobile.reuters.com/article/idINKCN1030D2?irpc=932 …
OUTLAW 09
07-23-2016, 03:45 PM
Turkey seizes over 2,250 institutions in post-coup crackdown
http://abc7.la/2a0FBpB
Turkey trying to pressure Gulen by arresting his family members....
AFP news agency
✔ @AFP #UPDATE Turkey detains Fethullah Gulen's nephew after coup attempt: state media
http://u.afp.com/Zr2T
OUTLAW 09
07-24-2016, 07:48 AM
This is exactly how the Iranian 1979 hotheads took over the entire Iranian military .....exactly how it is done.......
UPDATE: Turkey's PM says 163 Generals and Admirals have been detained post-coup, around 45% of the Turkish military's total
OUTLAW 09
07-24-2016, 07:55 AM
This is an important read for those following this thread....and for those in the DC decision making process..... Well worth reading especially if one has been watching Erdogan since he came into power a number of years ago....this coup fits his m.o. like a glove to complete is counter coup.
Kyle W. Orton @KyleWOrton · 1h1 hour ago
Important overview of #Turkey's evolution under Erdogan by @stevenacook: "There was no democracy for it to lose."
How Erdogan Made Turkey Authoritarian Again
It wasn't so long ago that the Turkish leader was seen as a model democrat in the Islamic world. What happened?
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/07/how-erdogan-made-turkey-authoritarian-again/492374/
OUTLAW 09
07-24-2016, 02:08 PM
UPDATE: Turkish prosecutors are investigating people who claimed on social media that coup attempt was hoax carried out by the government
Even before the coup Erdogan had complete control over social media and the internet....
OUTLAW 09
07-24-2016, 03:11 PM
BREAKING: @amnesty International says has 'credible evidence' of torture of #Turkey coup detainees - @i24NEWS_EN
MORE: "In the worst cases some have been subjected to severe beatings and torture, including rape.”
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2016/07/turkey-independent-monitors-must-be-allowed-to-access-detainees-amid-torture-allegations/ …
Azor...now we are getting back to your original comment....was it a false flag or not ?????
New York Times World
✔ @nytimesworld Failed Turkish coup accelerated a purge years in the making
http://nyti.ms/29Uq8WA
Erdogan and the AKP/MB have for years wanted to swing the Turkish secularism towards Islamic fundamentalism......
They were simply waiting and took and or provoked the disgruntled military elements....into action OR helped along the way.
Yeah I've argued from day 1 that it is not necessarily a false flag, but is at very least an "aggressive sting".
Bill Moore
07-24-2016, 08:15 PM
Constantinople is in the process of changing hands again, East to west, west to east, East to west, and now west to east again.
OUTLAW 09
07-25-2016, 05:14 AM
Erdogan Hints at Executing 13,000, Exits European Human Rights Convention
http://lsh.re/150VU
OUTLAW 09
07-25-2016, 05:43 AM
Foreign Affairs
✔ @ForeignAffairs The failed coup has made Turkey weaker and therefore more vulnerable to Russian coercion.
http://ow.ly/leqj302yg5q
OUTLAW 09
07-25-2016, 07:38 AM
Full analysis, transcript and translation of #TurkeyCoup WhatsApp group now online at @bellingcat.
OUTLAW 09
07-25-2016, 09:40 AM
Erdogan Hints at Executing 13,000, Exits European Human Rights Convention
http://lsh.re/150VU
31 academics arrested with 1 dollar bills said to prove Gulen group membership, Hurriyet says
http://mobil.hurriyet.com.tr/5-kentte-akademisyen-operasyonu-onlarca-gozalti-40168356?utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=post&utm_campaign=5-kentte-akademisyen-operasyonu-onlarca-gozalti-40168356&utm_term=post …
OUTLAW 09
07-25-2016, 09:53 AM
Nazlı Ilıcak among 42 journalists to be detained as part of gov’t crackdown on media #Turkey
https://www.turkishminute.com/2016/07/25/nazli-ilicak-among-42-journalists-detained-part-widening-govt-crackdown-media/ …
Erdogan is not only arresting coup plotters but those still loyal to Turkish who have not openly voiced support for Erdogan.....
Credible report: loyal officers of Turkish Armed Forces that we know, who were against coup, have been arrested for NOT being pro-Erdogan !!
OUTLAW 09
07-25-2016, 10:01 AM
Is anyone aware of Turkish ambassadors thanking EU host countries for anti-coup support as ambo in Tehran just did?
http://www.haberler.com/feto-nun-darbe-girisimi-2-8642706-haberi/?utm_source=haberler.com&utm_campaign=twitter_paylas …
Alwaght @EnglishAlwaght
Turkish Daily Accuses American Gen.of Plotting Coup Hours before Fire near NATO Base
http://alwaght.com/en/News/61925
OUTLAW 09
07-25-2016, 10:11 AM
Turkey basically attempted to blackmail the EU with the Syrian refugees to get 3B Euros and free visa travel and still is bullying the US....knowing full well they have no court verifiable evidence to link Gulen to the coup as requested by the US....
Ties with Turkey will be impacted if U.S. doesn't extradite Gulen: minister
http://reut.rs/29ZTgwp
Turkey has been told what they need to submit and yet Turkey still has submitted nothing....as they have absolutely nothing....
Erdogan is basically driving Turkey into far more isolation that they were before the coup...his "buddies are now Putin and Khamenei"....
Even KSA and the GCC has remained largely silent....
OUTLAW 09
07-25-2016, 10:46 AM
Decision to close down #USAK, a highly professional think tank in Ankara is a democratic disgrace.
https://twitter.com/ozdemsanberk/status/757513478697525248 …
CNN Türk ENG
✔ @CNNTURK_ENG #BREAKING Turkish Mil. Chief of Staff in testimony as witness: I stood against coup, told them not to shed blood
BUT he did not blow the whistle?????
OUTLAW 09
07-25-2016, 10:52 AM
Azor...here is your "smoking gun" compliments of the UK SIGINT....an online article in the German Focus is coming out with the following..........
They picked up email, SMS and phone chatter from different parts of the Turkish government 30 minutes after the shooting started indicating that the purges would start the next day and Gulen would be be balmed as the coup mastermind.
Believe this is a deliberate shot across the bow of Erdogan with his constant accusations that the US was behind the coup.....
Because if those recordings ever went public it would in fact damage Erdogan who naturally would claim they are fakes just as the recording of his son's corruption and his calls were called "fakes"....
OUTLAW 09
07-25-2016, 10:57 AM
Turkey has already been a country in which opposing the narrative of Erdogan is considered 'treason' and a crime. https://twitter.com/AlArabiya_Eng/status/757276841304621059 …
OUTLAW 09
07-25-2016, 10:59 AM
Alwaght @EnglishAlwaght
Turkish Daily Accuses American Gen.of Plotting Coup Hours before Fire near NATO Base
http://alwaght.com/en/News/61925
Turkey govt mouthpiece Aksam claims detained #Incirlik Air Base commander Bekir Ercan Van met US, #Iran, #Syria & #Iraq intelligence
OUTLAW 09
07-25-2016, 11:00 AM
CPJ
✔ @pressfreedom The press freedom crackdown after the #TurkeyCoupAttempt continues. Stay up to date with our Crackdown Chronicle:
http://bit.ly/29OPBjI
Worth following them.....
Another suspicious suicide in #Turkey : Lt.Col. İsmail Çakmak, arrested over alleged coup charges, found hung in Silivri prison.
AI has reported cases of rape, and torture are ongoing now in Turkish prisons...
Amnesty "The interviewee heard one police doctor on duty say:Let him die.We will say he came to us dead"
Turkey journo says his home raided at 3 am while he was away for vacation. He reported himself to local police. https://twitter.com/aydin_huseyin_/status/757425598482485252 …
31 academics including professors were detained across #Turkey as gov't casting a wide net to crackdown on dissent & criticism
Fox TV news manager Ercan Gün is reportedly targeted with arrest warrant in #Turkey's crackdown on press.
Samanyolu TV news presenter & anchorman Abdullah Abdülkadiroğlu who hosted govt officials in his show for years faces arrest warrant.
davidbfpo
07-25-2016, 11:51 AM
A wide ranging, short article on Defence in Depth, a Kings War Studies blog site:https://defenceindepth.co/2016/07/25/how-do-military-coups-fail/
The author ends with:
Turkey currently faces the prospect of an AKP dictatorship being imposed after a failure to impose a military one. Erdogan appears to be settling scores with all potential opponents – whether they backed this coup or not – thereby compounding the instability arising from the spill-over from the Syrian civil war, the renewed Kurdish insurgency and IS terrorism.However he continues with a really painful passage:
In this case, there is an ominous precedent set by the putsch launched by pro-Communist Indonesian officers on 30th September 1965. After this coup’s collapse, Indonesia’s top brass launched a purge which killed an estimated half a million people, and also replaced Sukarno’s dictatorship with that of Suharto (https://defenceindepth.co/2015/10/01/the-act-of-killing/). Indonesia 1965 demonstrated that a failed coup d’etat can be every bit as disastrous as a successful one. One can only hope that Turkey does not provide another example.
OUTLAW 09
07-25-2016, 04:20 PM
REMEMBER those so called 600,000 Wikileak's AKP emails that they announced they were dumping
Instead of "AKP emails", Wikileaks dumped private info of ALMOST EVERY WOMAN in Turkey Yes.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/zeynep-tufekci/wikileaks-erdogan-emails_b_11158792.html …
It was reported widely in Western media as "Erdogan Emails" because Wikileaks claimed that. They weren't. Apparently, nobody checked it.
The databases dumped endanger practically every woman in Turkey. The emails have no public interest as they're a large Google group.
OUTLAW 09
07-25-2016, 04:27 PM
3 members of the High Electoral Council, which governs elections in Turkey, arrested as part of coup backlash:
http://www.birgun.net/haber-detay/3-ysk-uyesi-tutuklandi-121507.html …
Erdogan dictatorship is just about in place.....
Turkish Health Ministry suspends over 5,000 personnel as purges continue after coup attempt
https://www.turkishminute.com/2016/07/25/health-ministry-suspends-5000-personnel-allegedly-linked-attempted-coup/ …
OUTLAW 09
07-25-2016, 05:09 PM
Ret. 4-Star US Gen. rebuffs Turkish paper's conspiracy theory that he used CIA money to back coup against Erdogan:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/retired-u-s-general-dismisses-allegations-he-masterminded-turkey-coup-1469455731 …
OUTLAW 09
07-25-2016, 05:11 PM
REMEMBER those so called 600,000 Wikileak's AKP emails that they announced they were dumping
Instead of "AKP emails", Wikileaks dumped private info of ALMOST EVERY WOMAN in Turkey Yes.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/zeynep-tufekci/wikileaks-erdogan-emails_b_11158792.html …
It was reported widely in Western media as "Erdogan Emails" because Wikileaks claimed that. They weren't. Apparently, nobody checked it.
The databases dumped endanger practically every woman in Turkey. The emails have no public interest as they're a large Google group.
Wikileaks dumped addresses of millions of women in Turkey. Hundreds murdered each year by exes, stalkers, etc. Now, they've an address book.
.@wikileaks is part of the Russian intelligence network now.
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/all-signs-point-to-russia-being-behind-the-dnc-hack …
OUTLAW 09
07-26-2016, 07:21 AM
CNN Trk ENG
✔ @CNNTURK_ENG #BREAKING Turkey's Deputy PM Şimşek says Erdoğan will travel to Russia's St Petersburg on August 9
CNN Türk ENG
✔ @CNNTURK_ENG #BREAKING State-run AA reports 2 Turkish generals based in Afghanistan detained in Dubai after attempted coup
OUTLAW 09
07-26-2016, 09:27 AM
Turkey's Deputy PM Mehmet Simsek in Moscow: "We are here to improve our relations and bring them to an even higher level than before Nov 24"
Deputy PM @memetsimsek said that he thanked Russia for its support towards Turkey during the July 15 coup attempt http://aa.com.tr/en/politics/erdogan-to-meet-putin-in-russia-on-aug-9/615754 …
US embassy personnel are now sending home their families....
OUTLAW 09
07-26-2016, 09:44 AM
What planet does Erdogan actually reside on and or in?????
In an interview with German broadcaster ARD, #Erdogan urged the EU to lift visa requirements for Turkish citizens !!
http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/turkeys-president-erdogan-accuses-eu-of-breaking-migrants-pact-34912791.html …
Initially Erdogan literally blackmailed the EU actually Germany into supporting his refugee proposals....ie 3B Euros AFTER already receiving 2B Euros for humanitarian aid to those Syrian refugees inside Turkey AND lifting of visa requirements.
Turkey largely reneged on that agreement by basically not accepting any refugee returnees from Greece and allowing virtually no refugees to travel to the EU.
THEN along came his AKP dictatorial counter coup and his spoken threat of reinstating the death penalty for 13,000 AND the EU then stated you have left the terms of entry to the EU that you wanted and until you return to those terms ALL visa lifting is now formally stopped as well as any talks about joining the EU have been stopped.
Erdogan urgently needs money and investment flows as his economy is actually tanking under massive corruption and while he eyes Russia... Russian aid is not forthcoming either as they cannot even support financially Crimea......they offer tourist trade, a pipeline and or maybe lifting of export sanctions imposed after the shot down of their SU24 but money forget about it they have none.
AND his own AKP supporters really did want the visa lifting to occur and now they are ticked off and blame the EU not Erdogan....
OLD Turkish saying....what goes around comes around with a vengeance....or what the military calls second and third order of effects.
You can tell the altered state of reality he reside in with this comment....
Mr Erdogan told ARD that Turkish voters wanted the death measure, stating that "if we are in a democratic state of law, then the people decide".
BUT he is now not exactly in what one in the West would call a "democratic state" with his counter coup underway....and his unlimited powers via the declared State of Emergency ending all democratic legal rights for as log as he wants it....he is now in a dictatorial world of a one party rule in some ways he is following Putin's led with the opposition basically all in jail .
OUTLAW 09
07-26-2016, 11:08 AM
WHEN one controls the entire media landscape including the social media and entire internet WHAT does one expect....this cannot be thought to "unusual" by MSM.....
Turks believe cleric Gulen was behind coup attempt: survey http://reut.rs/2a8ge9t
OUTLAW 09
07-26-2016, 12:33 PM
Turkey had the second largest NATO Army and was highly professional...they have now after the AKP/Erdogan putsch gone to zero effectiveness now inside NATO........
Turkey's military 'is now a broken force' — and 'it will take years for it to heal'
http://read.bi/2a8oSoq
This is a given when you arrest over a third of the top Generals, sack all Division Commanders and arrest virtually all of the mid level officers ie LTCs and COLs.....his AF went to zero effectiveness in about 48 hours....
AND this from Erdogan that wanted to become the "Sultan" of a "new Ottoman Empire" with Russia, Iran and Turkey...thinking he could get more money from the West if he stayed in NATO......
One really has to relook the evidence that was mounting on the Turkish support to IS which has been also supported at the same time by Russia, Iran and Assad......
OUTLAW 09
07-26-2016, 12:45 PM
Why the Failed Turkish Coup is Very Bad News for the War on #ISIS.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/07/19/why-the-failed-turkish-coup-is-very-bad-news-for-the-war-on-isis.html …
Nothing like falling in line with the AKP putsch...in order to keep from going to prison.......
Main opposition party CHP leader Kılıçdaroğlu supports government: "Gülen must be extradited to Turkey."
Previously the CHP supported Gulen against Erdogan......
OUTLAW 09
07-26-2016, 05:56 PM
Turkey is widening crackdown after the attempted coup amid international alarm
http://read.bi/2anWkUI
We're now well past the attempted coup and into the purges...
Thank you David for your insightful comparison to Indonesia. You are quite right for suggesting that Erdogan's excess may result in a successful military coup. Remember when Morsi thought that Al-Sisi was "his" man?
Thank you Outlaw 09 for your continued updates. Any source on the British SIGINT report of purge preparations?
OUTLAW 09
07-26-2016, 07:11 PM
We're now well past the attempted coup and into the purges...
Thank you David for your insightful comparison to Indonesia. You are quite right for suggesting that Erdogan's excess may result in a successful military coup. Remember when Morsi thought that Al-Sisi was "his" man?
Thank you Outlaw 09 for your continued updates. Any source on the British SIGINT report of purge preparations?
Azor...the UK comment came via BBC and was a one time comment which is highly interesting as I took it to be a not so subtle signal to Erdogan that they hold evidence on his long planned counter coup and to not take it so far...and you notice the Turks passed on commenting on it..and have mellowed in their death comments massively since then......completely confirming the comment in my eyes.
OUTLAW 09
07-27-2016, 07:17 AM
Azor....notice now how Erdogan is "backtracking".....he is trying to walk back his initial rhetoric on death sentences and rooting out the evil.....
Pressures from the UK SIGINT is starting to work as has the threat to suspend from NATO and the EU swinging the free visa travel weapon......
For Erdogan....the direct threat was the SIGINT report and the EU visa rejection which a majority of his AKP really did want....
Erdogan drops all lawsuits he filed against opposition political leaders to show appreciation of solidarity after failed coup: official
Erdogan is just like Trump...when he dislikes something he goes to court immediately....to attack it....
OUTLAW 09
07-27-2016, 07:20 AM
AFP news agency
✔ @AFP #BREAKING: Turkey issues arrest warrants for 47 ex-staff of Zaman daily: official
Revival of Turkish Stream would be Gazprom funding "Russia's geopolitical ambitions rather than its own commercial interests" - Sberbank
OUTLAW 09
07-27-2016, 07:55 AM
The Turkish govt. embarrasses the entire country by distorting its own military doctrine.
https://twitter.com/Conflicts/status/758198294413729793 …
Turkish military pilots had clear orders in November 2015.
OF COURSE they couldn't "check back w/ the president" before firing at invaders.
OUTLAW 09
07-27-2016, 10:52 AM
The Turkish govt. embarrasses the entire country by distorting its own military doctrine.
https://twitter.com/Conflicts/status/758198294413729793 …
Turkish military pilots had clear orders in November 2015.
OF COURSE they couldn't "check back w/ the president" before firing at invaders.
Turkey's ex-PM #Davutoglu says General Staff investigated & ruled out #Gulen-links for pilots who shot down #Russian jet on #Syria border
OUTLAW 09
07-27-2016, 10:57 AM
Former PM Davutoğlu: The initial info about coup attempt was that there'd be an assasination attempt on Hakan Fidan https://twitter.com/AJTCanli/status/758218607558098944 …
Davutoğlu: "Fidan, chief of intel, tried to resolve this situation with Chief of Gen. Staff" -Might explain why they didn't notify the govt?
OUTLAW 09
07-27-2016, 10:59 AM
The #AKP has the middle class to thank for thwarting the #TurkeyCoup
http://bit.ly/2a1Ws9V
OUTLAW 09
07-27-2016, 12:24 PM
NOTICE that absolutely no western media and or Turkish media has YET to pickup on the fact that the bulk of the WikiLeaks data dump on the AKP was in fact the personal identification of millions of Turkish women including addresses, phone numbers, bank accounts, employers and on and on in a nation state that has a high rate of killing women.....
WHY is that?????
BUT WAIT...Wikileaks only wants to reveal corruption...BUT personal identifying data is fair game.....this even discredits Anonymous
Anonymous @YourAnonNews
WikiLeaks is not pro Russia or pro Trump in any sense. They just want to reveal corruption.
Russian stooge, Assange, aka @wikileaks has doxed almost every woman in Turkey for no reason
http://metro.co.uk/2016/07/26/wikileaks-published-personal-details-of-almost-every-woman-in-turkey-for-no-reason-6029338/ …
OUTLAW 09
07-27-2016, 12:39 PM
12th day since coup. We still dont know who is #1 among coupists.Neither we know who make the coup's "peace council" https://twitter.com/cahitbingol/status/758269672806576128 …
OUTLAW 09
07-27-2016, 05:43 PM
Military says 8,651 soldiers participated in Turkey’s coup attempt http://bit.ly/2apDAnZ
OUTLAW 09
07-27-2016, 06:52 PM
CNN Trk ENG
✔ @CNNTURK_ENG 149 general and admirals, 1099 officers, 436 non-commissioned officers sacked from the Turkish Army.
Breaking News Feed @pzf
SHUT DOWN IN TURKEY TODAY:
-18 TV channels
-3 news wires
-23 radio channels
-45 newspapers
-15 magazines
-30 journalists arrested
OUTLAW 09
07-27-2016, 08:14 PM
The AKP empowered the Gulenists, in part, to coup proof Turkish institutions, including the TSK
Gulenist power increased following two trials based on forged evidence, alleging, of all things, a coup plot against the AKP
The subsequent promotions following these two trials accelerated the careers of officers now alleged to be a part of the plot
OUTLAW 09
07-27-2016, 08:28 PM
Putin and #Erdogan: "The Beginning of a Beautiful Friendship" -
https://themoscowtimes.com/articles/putin-and-erdogan-the-start-of-a-beautiful-friendship-54742 …
It would appear that Turkey is aiming for its own version of Debaathification. The results will be different, but it is equally unwise.
OUTLAW 09
07-28-2016, 09:07 AM
BREAKING: Turkish government says it has information that Gulen is preparing to leave the United States and seek asylum in another country
@ezgibasaran does a stellar job dismantling the widely-held belief that Glen is somehow a good guy:
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/Default.aspx?pageID=449&nID=102173&NewsCatID=548
BUT since Erdogan controls the entire media...not so sure this is a valid article..
SWJ Blog
07-28-2016, 03:43 PM
Turkey Looks to Rebuild Military After Purging Half Its Generals (http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/turkey-looks-to-rebuild-military-after-purging-half-its-generals)
Entry Excerpt:
--------
Read the full post (http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/turkey-looks-to-rebuild-military-after-purging-half-its-generals) and make any comments at the SWJ Blog (http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog).
This forum is a feed only and is closed to user comments.
OUTLAW 09
07-28-2016, 04:53 PM
Request made by Ankara Chief Prosecutor's office for seizure of the property of 3,049 detained judges & prosecutors:
http://t24.com.tr/haber/3-bin-49-hakim-ve-savcinin-mal-varligina-el-konulacak,352381 …
Now we see Erdogan and the AKP enriching themselves......
Turkey creates a ‘Traitors’ Cemetery’ for scores of dead coup plotters:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/turkey-creates-traitors-cemetery-for-dead-coup-plotters/2016/07/28/22004616-54c2-11e6-b652-315ae5d4d4dd_story.html …
OUTLAW 09
07-28-2016, 05:47 PM
Russian Su-24 downed upon order from ex-PM Davutoglu - Hurriyet
http://www.unian.info/world/1441892-russian-su-24-downed-upon-order-from-ex-pm-davutoglu-hurriyet.html …
OUTLAW 09
07-28-2016, 06:00 PM
Erdogan is now escalating and making demands on Germany to arrest all Gulen supporters among the German Turkish community......
stern
✔ @sternde Streit eskaliert: Trkei fordert von Deutschland Auslieferung von Glen-Anhngern
http://stern.de/6985366 /sdn
Side note....the right wing Turkish fascist group Grey Wolf was highly active in Germany in the 70/80 to the point of using weapons on the streets...so is this the Erdogan subtle threat to Germany???
OUTLAW 09
07-29-2016, 07:58 AM
This is what triggered the unrest against Erdogan in the first place and triggered the accusations of corruption against him and his son over the construction contracts....it is almost a slap in the face of a strong democratic and young fairly large secular minority against Erdogan and will provoke long term a lash back in some form....
Istanbul Mayor: We will re-build old military barracks over Gezi Park. Our President already stated it clearly. https://twitter.com/Hurriyet/status/758913556691587072 …
US spox Kirby says US has no info re Turkish ministers announced visit to DC for Gulen extradition.
Confirms early reprts they may not come.
Some say Erdogan really does not want him inside Turkey as it is better to keep him the "enemy" but at a far distance as they really do not know the strength of his following inside Turkey that is way they are rounding up anyone they think might somehow be tied to him....
OUTLAW 09
07-29-2016, 09:09 AM
Just another way of saying we are creating a one party one man ruler....
Ambo of Turkey: Massive detentions are due to exceptional threat & large network of ppl involved in plotting the coup
So unless all turks kiss the ring of the Sultan you are a "plotter".....
Main opposition party CHP strictly against bringing army and intelligence under direct control of the President https://twitter.com/barisyarkadas/status/758916676951773185 …
OUTLAW 09
07-29-2016, 09:18 AM
Turkish FM....over 300 diplomats maybe fired
On #Turkey journalists detention:"We've thrown a net, they will be tried to see if they're guitly" - TR Ambassador to #Ukraine Y.C.Tezel
OUTLAW 09
07-29-2016, 10:42 AM
Turkey shakes up armed forces, U.S. says purges harming cooperation
http://reut.rs/2attgwY
Prominent columnist Hilmi Yavuz (80) who has been under detention, deprived of access to his medicines. @RSF_inter
http://m.t24.com.tr/haber/gozaltina-alinan-hilmi-yavuzun-yakinlari-doktor-raporu-istendigi-icin-ilaclarini-bile-ulastiramiyoruz,352462 …
OUTLAW 09
07-29-2016, 12:19 PM
Erdogan: "#US General Joseph Votel, the commander of US Central Command, is taking sides with the #Turkey coup plotters."
OUTLAW 09
07-29-2016, 01:43 PM
One of my journalistic mentors Erkan Acar is arrested in Erdogan's Turkey.I know Acar for 7 years,he's a journalist!
OUTLAW 09
07-29-2016, 02:55 PM
Now we are all in trouble....if you were planning a vacation to Turkey think again......you could be arrested when you land ........
BREAKING: Erdogan says that countries that did not congratulate Turkey for defeating coup attempt were siding with the coup conspirators
OUTLAW 09
07-29-2016, 05:17 PM
Erdogan's moving toward Russia
http://bit.ly/2awCWoF
https://twitter.com/CNNTURK_ENG/status/758992146816913409 …
CNN Türk ENG
✔ @CNNTURK_ENG US Gen Votel says any report that he had anything to do w #TurkeyCoupAttempt is "unfortunate&completely inaccurate"
BREAKING US Chairman of Joint Chiefs Dunford will visit Turkey on July 31 - Turkish Minister says
Understand what "depoliticization of military" means: With Army in Disarray, a Pillar of Modern Turkey Lies Broken http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/29/world/europe/turkey-military-coup.html?smprod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share …
OUTLAW 09
07-29-2016, 06:40 PM
Erdogan's moving toward Russia
http://bit.ly/2awCWoF
https://twitter.com/CNNTURK_ENG/status/758992146816913409 …
CNN Türk ENG
✔ @CNNTURK_ENG US Gen Votel says any report that he had anything to do w #TurkeyCoupAttempt is "unfortunate&completely inaccurate"
BREAKING US Chairman of Joint Chiefs Dunford will visit Turkey on July 31 - Turkish Minister says
Understand what "depoliticization of military" means: With Army in Disarray, a Pillar of Modern Turkey Lies Broken http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/29/world/europe/turkey-military-coup.html?smprod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share …
Pro-Erdogan account calls on Turkish gov't 'to hit the plane of US Chief of Staff, put the blame on Gulenist pilots'
OUTLAW 09
07-29-2016, 06:41 PM
Emre Soncan. To learn anything about the military, he was the reporter to read. Extraordinary journalist. Arrested.
Ufuk Sanli. His Al Monitor columns shed light on Turkey's economy. An avid reader, excellent reporter. Arrested.
Yakup Cetin. We know his face because he was live on TV when a story broke out. As every great reporter, arrested.
Bayram Kaya. Made his career by digging into Turkey's economic life. Now under arrest for excellent court reporting.
Hasim Soylemez. A general assignment investigative reporter who wrote about almost anything. Price: Arrested.
A talented journalist, unwavering editor. Published a series of court investigations. Now paying the price. Arrested
Reuters World
✔ @ReutersWorld BREAKING: Turkey interior minister says passports of almost 50,000 people have been cancelled following coup attempt
OUTLAW 09
07-29-2016, 07:01 PM
Germany is awaiting this Sunday a series of pro Erdogan and anti Erdogan demonstrations that promise an outbreak of violence...Germany has warned turkey about exporting their counter coup into Germany.....
Cologne preparing for big pro-Erdogan rally on Sunday. 15.000+ participants - several counterrallies planned
Some German media is now stating the Turks living and working in Germany must finally declare their loyalty
OUTLAW 09
07-30-2016, 04:40 AM
Just a year or so ago Turkey was a safe haven for journos writing on Syria. It's all a disaster
https://twitter.com/Poynter/status/759065776565391361 …
OUTLAW 09
07-30-2016, 09:55 AM
OK so who is lying to whom.......
Discrepancies among testimonials offered by #Turkey military officers on coup suggest something different/larger than what gov't tells us
OUTLAW 09
07-30-2016, 06:04 PM
OK so who is lying to whom.......
Discrepancies among testimonials offered by #Turkey military officers on coup suggest something different/larger than what gov't tells us
Turkey intel knew the coup plans at 16.00 hours, Gen.Staff at 18.00, action started at 22.00. Why wait to intervene? Who dropped the ball?
AND WHY????
OUTLAW 09
07-30-2016, 06:05 PM
Amnesty Turkey researcher: @aforgutu @amnesty
https://twitter.com/andrewegardner/status/759433915396481024 …
Andrew Gardner @andrewegardner
Yes there is a court order for my twitter account to be blocked. Why? Don't know, but I tweet Amnesty research on Turkey. Yes we will appeal
Turkey misses chance for peace with Kurdish militants after coup failed
http://reut.rs/2ayZUf1
How come Radio Sputnik did not lose its FM license in Turkey during the recent Russia-Turkey "cold war" ?
How come Radio Sputnik broadcasts on FM in Turkey, yet not a single NATO-country radio station is licensed there?
OUTLAW 09
07-30-2016, 07:44 PM
Erdogan Slams US Reaction to Failed Coup
http://abcn.ws/2ai3maT
Erdoğan tells CENTCOM Chief Votel: "Who are you? Know your place..."
Turkey prosecutor wants to send detained journo Lale Kemal to jail. She wrote for Jane's Defence-Weekly & others
TURKEY RELEASES HUNDREDS OF SOLDIERS DETAINED AFTER COUP ATTEMPT
OUTLAW 09
07-31-2016, 12:00 PM
In just 5y TUR has gone from an island of stability and examplar of democracy in the Islamic world to a country in a quasi state of war.
OUTLAW 09
07-31-2016, 02:42 PM
Great example of being a Muslim and showing loyalty to the foreign country one resides in.......
An unusual sight: German national anthem played to a sea of Turkish flags waving at #Cologne rally
Turkey EU Minister slams Germany for not respecting freedom of speech.
In Turkey, this week,48 journalists detained
https://twitter.com/omerrcelik/status/759733498739425280 …
OUTLAW 09
08-01-2016, 05:52 PM
Erdoğan also invites leaders of AKP, CHP & MHP to deliver speeches in an anti-coup rally in Istanbul on Aug 7th, again exclude HDP leader.
Erdoğan and leaders of the main opposition party & nationalist movement withdraw all cases against each other, exclude Kurdish HDP leader.
OUTLAW 09
08-01-2016, 05:53 PM
Great example of being a Muslim and showing loyalty to the foreign country one resides in.......
An unusual sight: German national anthem played to a sea of Turkish flags waving at #Cologne rally
Turkey EU Minister slams Germany for not respecting freedom of speech.
In Turkey, this week,48 journalists detained
https://twitter.com/omerrcelik/status/759733498739425280 …
The initial from AKP claimed number of participants of 40K tuned out to be
20K and most of those were bussed in from five other countries.....
OUTLAW 09
08-02-2016, 10:35 AM
Arrest warrant issued for 100 including doctors working at GATA military hospital in #Turkey capital, police sweeps going on at premises.
Owen Matthews: #Erdogan and #Putin are strongmen in love
http://bit.ly/2aLxl07
Turkey gov't spox Numan Kurtulmuş says restructuring military is not a mere coincidence but the result of well-planned framework study.
OUTLAW 09
08-02-2016, 04:36 PM
Erdogan: The West supports 'terror' and stands behind 'coup plotters'
http://read.bi/2ascGJb
davidbfpo
08-02-2016, 10:46 PM
Dr Omar Ashour, of Exeter University & Brookings, is a regional SME and has a strong interest in the role of the military - plus I like reading him.
A short article and the Abstract says:
On the night of 15 July 2016, Turkey witnessed its bloodiest coup attempt in the history of the Republic. The very essence and symbols of Turkish democracy came under bombardment for the first time. But despite its brutality and seriousness, the coup was an utter failure. This expert brief attempts to understand why it failed and what lessons can be learned for coup-proofing and the future defense of Turkish democracy. The brief is composed of four sections. It first outlines a trajectory featuring the decline in successful military coups in Turkey. Then, it analyses that as a result of major socio-economic and socio-political changes in Turkish society. Finally, the brief identifies the challenges of formulating coup-proofing policies in emerging democracies and concludes with broader comparative practices.Link:http://sharqforum.org/2016/08/01/the-failed-coup-and-the-challenges-of-defending-democracy-in-turkey/
OUTLAW 09
08-03-2016, 11:06 AM
The "Sultan" speaks........
Turkey president #Erdogan slams West AGAIN, accuses it of supporting coup, says he has 'Allah' on his side & Turkish military against it.
BUT WAIT Gulen also prays to Allah and Allah was never a dictator....NOR has the Turkish military ever been against "Allah"...
In rare show of humility. #Erdogan asked forgiveness for past alliance with #Gulen, says failed to see his 'true face'
OUTLAW 09
08-03-2016, 07:05 PM
The "Sultan" speaks........
Turkey president #Erdogan slams West AGAIN, accuses it of supporting coup, says he has 'Allah' on his side & Turkish military against it.
BUT WAIT Gulen also prays to Allah and Allah was never a dictator....NOR has the Turkish military ever been against "Allah"...
In rare show of humility. #Erdogan asked forgiveness for past alliance with #Gulen, says failed to see his 'true face'
Erdogan to US: "what kind of strategic partners are we, that you can still host someone whose extradition I have asked for?"
BUT WAIT.......Turkey has provided not a single piece of evidence to the US.......
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.