“How the Glock became America’s weapon of choice” | Fresh Air (24 January 2012)

[ganulv]

A bit to my surprise as I have never had much interest in handguns (I have owned a half dozen or so shotguns and rifles over the years but have had neither need for nor general curiosity about handguns at any point in my life) I much enjoyed today’s Fresh Air (http://www.npr.org/programs/fresh-air/), an interview with the author (http://www.glockthebook.com/glock-meet-the-author.asp) of a recently published book about the history of the Glock in the United States (http://www.glockthebook.com/).

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How the Glock became America’s weapon of choice (http://www.npr.org/2012/01/24/145640473/how-the-glock-became-americas-weapon-of-choice)

[…] The Glock was created in 1982 by curtain-rod manufacturer Gaston Glock. Glock didn’t like the handguns available on the market and decided to manufacture a new gun from scratch. Before starting, he asked gun experts in his native Austria what could be done to improve a handgun for the modern era. […]

[carl]

A very interesting and fair broadcast by Fresh Air.

I remember when we transitioned from a Smith & Wesson SA/DA .45 to a Glock 31. The Glock was easier to shoot, easier to make hits with, easier to field strip, easier to clean, lighter and held almost twice as many rounds. I was thrilled and wondered why on earth anybody would want something other than a Glock. From any but a hobbyist's standpoint, I still do.

[Stan]

I just wish someone would improve on the S**T curtain rods we end up buying :D

I've always been a big fan of the .45 round and while the Glock version is everything that Carl said it is, it just isn't my Colt Commander nor my Springfield.

It's like having a jap bike. Two wheels, easy to maintain, faster...yep.
But it just isn't the same thing :D

[gute]

Curtain rods, huh. Who would of thunk. I'm a Glock guy - I've been carrying one for about 20 years. My agency went away from issuing 9mm handguns to the 40 cal around 2000/2001. The 40 cal definitively packs a bigger wallop.

[Stan]

Curtain rods, huh. Who would of thunk. I'm a Glock guy - I've been carrying one for about 20 years. My agency went away from issuing 9mm handguns to the 40 cal around 2000/2001. The 40 cal definitively packs a bigger wallop.

Hey Gute,
Did you ever hear about a 2006 report from the PA PD during a shooting incident where the findings concluded it was impossible for .40 S&W 180 gr. JHP ammunition to expand with only 1" or less penetration in a human body?

LEOs were using Glock 22s and M4s and the assailant a .45.

Got to find that pdf... really strange Sierra.

I guess if I had to decide between a wimpy 9mm, I'd go with the 40 too :D

[gute]

Hey Gute,
Did you ever hear about a 2006 report from the PA PD during a shooting incident where the findings concluded it was impossible for .40 S&W 180 gr. JHP ammunition to expand with only 1" or less penetration in a human body?

LEOs were using Glock 22s and M4s and the assailant a .45.

Got to find that pdf... really strange Sierra.

I guess if I had to decide between a wimpy 9mm, I'd go with the 40 too :D

Sure have. The report on the shooting was distributed throughout my agency and if I remember right the fire arms unit at Quantico felt the .40 failed to stop the threat because of shot placement. I am not surprised that it took so many rounds to take him down. The guy was a bad dude and wanted to go out in a blaze of glory.

[selil]

When I had the option 25 years ago I went with the competitor to the G-Lock. I bought the Ruger P-85. It's still a pretty wimpy 9mm, but we still had the 38cal rule. Not long after I left they decided anything went, and they bought Sig Sauer in 40 and 45 cal. Before I was at that department I was at another department that had the opposite to the 38cal rule and we were required to ONLY carry 45cal and up. My first issue weapon was a Lar Grizzly in 45 win magnum. Then a k-frame S&W 44mag. No wonder I've got arthritis.

[jmm99]

I doubt that either of us has "Arthur" from shooting the 44mag (gotta love that cartridge - mine in early 1970s Ruger Super Blackhawk, totally factory); but I'll yield to your superior knowledge of your own body as to your arthritis. :)

On pistol, I'd have to go with the 45 Combat Commander (out of the Colt box with a "little" tweaking).

Yeh, I'm just an old-fashioned SA gunner. :D

Regards

Mike

[slapout9]

1- The Glock is a good weapon but it is not a miracle weapon and it is certainly not the only good weapon out there.

2-Have spent a lot of time in Emergemcy Rooms collecting evidence and talking to ER Docs and they always ask two questions WHERE was the victim hit and how large was the calibre. Shot placement is the real question to ask.

3- I met a Deputy from the Palm Beach County Sheriff's department who shot a subject at almost point blank range through the heart!!!! with a .45 and the subject still managed to turn go back to his car and put it in gear and attempt to drive away before he became uncouncious.:eek:

4-The greatest advance IMO is the ability to buy handguns that have light mounts already built into the handgun. Laser sights and TAC lights on handguns are the real advances in Combat shooting.

5-The return of Point Shooting even to a limited degree is also good, which just goes to the old saying that good equipment is important but good training is everything.

[ganulv]

3- I met a Deputy from the Palm Beach County Sheriff's department who shot a subject at almost point blank range through the heart!!!! with a .45 and the subject still managed to turn go back to his car and put it in gear and attempt to drive away before he became uncouncious.:eek:
I did a search on Google Scholar and discovered that this situation is apparently less freakish than I would have assumed (http://ats.ctsnetjournals.org/cgi/reprint/13/3/208.pdf)! ’Course Floridians are a different breed (http://youtu.be/xhEDRZMY_3U?t=1m5s) in general…

[AnalyticType]

There was a time when I adhered to the philosophy "why sting 'em with a BB when you can smack 'em with a brick!" To that end, like jmm99, I had a Ruger Super Blackhawk .44mag -- with the 10.5" barrel :D -- and it did a bang-up job of changing the minds of a crew of intruders who were breaking into my house one night -- fortunately before I had to cause any of them to lay on the ground saying "ow" a bunch.

But after a while the mule-kick got old. I acquired a S&W 9mm (model 915) and fell as much "in love" with a gun as a girl can be without raisin' eyebrows. I also learned what y'all already know: larger caliber doesn't guarantee stopping power but placement and type of projectile does. So, in the interest of economical range practice without compromising my ability to inflict maximum trauma damage on intruders, I have stayed with 9mm -- and am seriously happy with my new Springfield XD(m) -- and go through 400-500rds of FMJ a couple times a month at the range, but keep the mags loaded with Federal Hydra-Shoks when not at the range. :cool:

I do like the XD(m) for the twin safeties, easy field strip, the fit of the grip and balance, and those 19rd magazines!

I've shot the Glock .40, and also in 9mm, but just wasn't much of a fan.....

[carl]

I hope this doesn't turn into a "my favorite pistol is better than your favorite pistol" discussion because those never end. But I half hope it does because they are great fun and they never end.

I went to one of those firearms schools once and the guy who ran it said the reason the argument about which pistol and calibre is best never ends is because none of them are. All of them are marginal and vastly inferior to a two handed gun be it rifle or shotgun. The only reason to use a pistol is because you got into situation where you can't get to your rifle.

[Surferbeetle]

Mike,

Quick sidebar...thanks for the lawfare breakouts, good stuff. :)

Carl,

A game of 'my favorite' sounds fun...;)

38 S&W with a built in laser and a 9mm Sig are both a hoot, however, the Sig is all about precision, accuracy, reliability, no drama, and plain old fashioned let's get ur done.

Sig Sauer wins

On the other hand something beautiful from Benelli in a 20 gauge is what i am hoping for this Christmas. The associated honey-do list is an amazingly tough one though...;)

[AnalyticType]

I did try to pull myself back on-topic at the end of my last post.

...GlockGlockGlock... lmao!

[slapout9]

I did a search on Google Scholar and discovered that this situation is apparently less freakish than I would have assumed (http://ats.ctsnetjournals.org/cgi/reprint/13/3/208.pdf)! ’Course Floridians are a different breed (http://youtu.be/xhEDRZMY_3U?t=1m5s) in general…

1-I was shot with a .44 magnum and didn't even no it for almost 2 hours and(it did knock me to the ground) by the way that happened AFTER my Glock .40 jammed.:eek:

2-Spent a lot of time talking to ME (Medical Examiners) sometimes called Coroners and bulletts done 2 things. Exactly what you think they would do and some of the most incedible unbelieveable things I have ever seen. I actually recovered a bullet on a stretcher in the ER that had worked it's way out of a suspect.

3-If you want true stopping power or true knock down power.....use the Patrol Vehicle:D

[slapout9]

I hope this doesn't turn into a "my favorite pistol is better than your favorite pistol" discussion because those never end. But I half hope it does because they are great fun and they never end.

I went to one of those firearms schools once and the guy who ran it said the reason the argument about which pistol and calibre is best never ends is because none of them are. All of them are marginal and vastly inferior to a two handed gun be it rifle or shotgun. The only reason to use a pistol is because you got into situation where you can't get to your rifle.

My backup gun for years was .32 automatic, often called a mouse gun.....but I never found anyone who wanted to get shot by it.

[Stan]

3-If you want true stopping power or true knock down power.....use the Patrol Vehicle:D

Hey Slap,
That's exactly what the SF anti-terrorism course teaches. "You have a much larger weapon. Ever see what people do when a car comes at them ? Why run while he shoots at you... drive over the SOB !" :D

[Stan]

I did try to pull myself back on-topic at the end of my last post.

...GlockGlockGlock... lmao!

I was just checking out your site (http://www.maxton.com/intimidator1/intimidator1_page4.shtml). Whoa Nellie that is a work of art !

I've cringed at the thought of firing a .45-70/.410 Derringer, but your Intimidator Puzzle Pistol I would love to try (even if only once ;) )

[jmm99]

in both Trapdoor Springfield ("low test" loads) and Marlin ("medium-high test" loads). The thought of firing a derringer in the latter loads, esp. at the higher end of their spectrum, shakes my gums to what used to be my teethlines.

The next step up would be a .458 WM or the like revolver - but, maybe someone has already thought of that. :) My main reason for having the large calibers (44mag and 45acp) about is that I'm used to the two weapons.

Less can be more (which is why my .22 target pistol and .22 "trapping" revolver are still hanging around - probably better choices at my age).

A "few years ago" (don't have a source), a kid on one of the South American national pistol teams was coming back from a match; and was stopped by an insurgent roadblock. One thing rapidly led to another and he controlled the situation with one of his match pistols (prob. a .22 or .32 short w/ "low test" loads) - all head shots as I recall the story. Maybe someone here has a source on that one - a cool story.

Regards

Mike

[Old Eagle]

I own two Glocks:

an entrenching tool

and a "combat" knife

just no curtain rods.

[gute]

1-I was shot with a .44 magnum and didn't even no it for almost 2 hours and(it did knock me to the ground) by the way that happened AFTER my Glock .40 jammed.:eek:

2-Spent a lot of time talking to ME (Medical Examiners) sometimes called Coroners and bulletts done 2 things. Exactly what you think they would do and some of the most incedible unbelieveable things I have ever seen. I actually recovered a bullet on a stretcher in the ER that had worked it's way out of a suspect.

3-If you want true stopping power or true knock down power.....use the Patrol Vehicle:D

What was the cause of the jam?

[AnalyticType]

I was just checking out your site (http://www.maxton.com/intimidator1/intimidator1_page4.shtml). Whoa Nellie that is a work of art !

I've cringed at the thought of firing a .45-70/.410 Derringer, but your Intimidator Puzzle Pistol I would love to try (even if only once ;) )


Hey Stan,

The site isn't mine, but I'd love to have the Intimidator Puzzle Pistol too! Talk about a conversation piece for the coffee table... Not much utility there, but truly gorgeous nonetheless.

[slapout9]

What was the cause of the jam?

Failure to feed. Most likley caused by me. I had a shotgun pointed at me by a very unfriendly person about to pull the trigger, actually he did pull the trigger and while I was ducking, I was also pulling my weapon from my duty holster and I had a very poor grip on the weapon, which is probably why it failed to feed the second round.

[carl]

Failure to feed. Most likley caused by me. I had a shotgun pointed at me by a very unfriendly person about to pull the trigger, actually he did pull the trigger and while I was ducking, I was also pulling my weapon from my duty holster and I had a very poor grip on the weapon, which is probably why it failed to feed the second round.

What year did that happen? We had a problem with our Glock 31s in that they would occasionally lock open after firing 2-3 rounds from a full magazine.
When we brought it to their attention they responded immediately by adding an additional coil to the magazine follower spring and giving us replacement springs for every magazine for free. That solved the problem. Everybody initially thought it was from not gripping the gun tight enough or properly, but it wasn't.

[gute]

What year did that happen? We had a problem with our Glock 31s in that they would occasionally lock open after firing 2-3 rounds from a full magazine.
When we brought it to their attention they responded immediately by adding an additional coil to the magazine follower spring and giving us replacement springs for every magazine for free. That solved the problem. Everybody initially thought it was from not gripping the gun tight enough or properly, but it wasn't.

I had a Glock 27 a few years ago and had some of the same problems with magazine feed. I sold it to another agent who wanted a 27 as back-up. I went back to my Smith model 60 5-shot for undercover work and a general back-up. I always carry my Glock 22 and at least one extra mag. DEA regulations make it clear that an agent is to carry his issued full size duty pistol for all enforcement activities, but I have noticed agents that use the compact 27 with a Glock 22 mag. Personally, the Remington 870 12 gauge makes a believer out of everyone and I've had suspects scream like little girls and poop themselves when looking at the BOOM end. Guys who poop themselves end up in the new guy's G-ride. Makes for a great day:D

[slapout9]

What year did that happen? We had a problem with our Glock 31s in that they would occasionally lock open after firing 2-3 rounds from a full magazine.
When we brought it to their attention they responded immediately by adding an additional coil to the magazine follower spring and giving us replacement springs for every magazine for free. That solved the problem. Everybody initially thought it was from not gripping the gun tight enough or properly, but it wasn't.

Now you tell me:( everyone kept telling me to sue the Bastards:wry:....it was 1999. And the spring problem you describe above is what I believe actually happened. The other version was what others told me they think may have happened

[slapout9]

DEA regulations

One of the best training films I ever saw on what a good sight picture looks like was out put out by the DEA.

[Stan]

Hey Slap,
Where did you put that article on your shooting incident ?

That was some freaky Sierra :eek:

[gute]

Now you tell me:( everyone kept telling me to sue the Bastards:wry:....it was 1999. And the spring problem you describe above is what I believe actually happened. The other version was what others told me they think may have happened

Funny, my PFI kept telling me I was "limping wristing" the shot. I've never limped wristed anything in my life.

[slapout9]

Hey Slap,
Where did you put that article on your shooting incident ?

That was some freaky Sierra :eek:

It's on here somewhere, I don't remember which thread right off hand.

[selil]

Slaphappy have you seen the Judge showing up yet? That little piece of nastiness is on my short list for future purchases.

Law enforcement tall tale: Late 80s I worked a surgery on a victim/suspect who had been shot six times in the abdomen by a 44Mag at about 7 feet. The bullets eviscerated his stomach, kidney, big chunk of liver, and general mayhem to below the rib cage. Took the docs about 12 hours to stabilize and sew him up. After he was shot he jumped from the second window of a house, and ran five blocks dragging chunks. The doctors were worried that he'd get up and run away (we'd had that happen more than once during surgery).

My take away after seeing an officer die from 22lr's is that bad ass attitude is a true survival trait.

[carl]

Slap and Gute:

We had our problem a year or two later so that you had your malfuction in 1999 would stand to reason.

Everybody in our organization initially attributed it to limp wristing also. I had a heck of a struggle getting them to see that proficient shooters all over the state were having the same problem regularly so it wasn't limp wristing.

The funny thing about limp wristing is the only pistol that I ever fired that would malfuction if you limp wristed it was that lousy Berrata.

[gute]

Slaphappy have you seen the Judge showing up yet? That little piece of nastiness is on my short list for future purchases.

My dad has one - it's a freakin hand cannon!