View Full Version : Identification Friend or Foe in a somewhat worse neighborhood than Golden Hills...

Presley Cannady
12-20-2012, 07:44 AM
...San Diego.

Just like it says on the tin.

Presley Cannady
12-20-2012, 02:16 PM
...San Diego.

Just like it says on the tin.

I'm looking for credible resources from law enforcement and military on the subject of distinguishing between the good guys and the bad guys down range. Google's not turning up much in the way of scholarship, so I thought I'd ask you guys.

12-26-2012, 06:53 PM
you don't need to be a scholar to do that, 18 year olds do it everyday downrange. perhaps interviewing a group of people who have a couple of tics under their belt and looking for similarities would be better?

12-26-2012, 07:46 PM
Surely there must be open source material on this issue, particularly after the introduction of "shoot, don't shoot" training, first in the open air (Clint Eastwood in Magnum Force) and then video screen enabled tests? IFF is too military and technical term for searching.

The comparatively short range of many LE shooting incidents, as referred to often, is a significant factor as the human eye can see the possible target(s) clearly compared to up 300m away.

A few thoughts from someone in an armchair.

12-26-2012, 08:20 PM
Am I correct in concluding that you want to look at practical application in the field of the rules of engagement (ROE, ROEs) and the concept(s) of positive identification (PID) ?

Google Advanced: "rules of engagement" + "roe" = 200,000 + hits; "positive identification" + "pid" = 18,000 + hits.

My own opinion is summarized in a year-old post, The ROE (http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/showpost.php?p=131018&postcount=131).

Practical application in the field (which today includes remote drone control centers) will in the end boil down to the actual test(s) used by the individual shooter to decide "shoot; don't shoot" - i.e., what causes one's "shoot" switch to flip, and then to flip back to status quo ante.

If so, I think you (or anyone else) will find it very hard to get personal answers in a public forum - or in a private conversation, for that matter. One issue is security classification; another is self-incrimination.

Good luck, though, in your quest.



12-27-2012, 08:53 PM
I think your best bet is LTC Dave Grossman...
This guy has done a detail study of gun fights and effects before and after...and will talk to ya. :)

12-27-2012, 10:59 PM

There is a LE thread 'Good Police Work' that may help:http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/showthread.php?t=4430

In particular the references to the pre-WW2 training in using small arms, by Mr W.E. Fairbairn, of Shanghai Municipal Police, although on checking sidearm use was not his focus:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_E._Fairbairn

Post-WW2 Rex Applegate is mentioned(although I've only read his book on riot control):http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_Applegate