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SteveMetz
06-16-2007, 01:11 PM
Thought it might be interesting to compare (but, Tom Odom, the menu at Applebees doesn't count!).

Here's mine:

Currently

Fouad Ajami, The Foreigner's Gift: The Americans, the Arabs, and the Iraqis in Iraq

In the queue

Ali Allawi, The Occupation of Iraq
Peter Galbraith, The End of Iraq
George Tenet, At the Center of the Storm
Andrew Sullivan, The Conservative Soul
Rupert Smith, The Utility of Force: The Art of War in the Modern World

Tom Odom
06-16-2007, 01:17 PM
Thought it might be interesting to compare (but, Tom Odom, the menu at Applebees doesn't count!).

Here's mine:

Currently

Fouad Ajami, The Foreigner's Gift: The Americans, the Arabs, and the Iraqis in Iraq

In the queue

Ali Allawi, The Occupation of Iraq
Peter Galbraith, The End of Iraq
George Tenet, At the Center of the Storm
Andrew Sullivan, The Conservative Soul
Rupert Smith, The Utility of Force: The Art of War in the Modern World

Applebees in DeRidder? Now that would be something--all that culture. Maybe we could go exotic and get the Outback with all that "Australian culture"--you know, like they came up with in Tampa, FL?

Riight now I am fully engaged with trends; they make for an exciting read :eek:

SteveMetz
06-16-2007, 01:25 PM
Applebees in DeRidder? Now that would be something--all that culture. Maybe we could go exotic and get the Outback with all that "Australian culture"--you know, like they came up with in Tampa, FL?

Riight now I am fully engaged with trends; they make for an exciting read :eek:

Did you see the link (http://render2.snapfish.com/render2/is=Yup6laP%7C%3Dup6RKKt%3AxxrKUp7BHD7Kofrj%3DQofrj 7t%3DzrRfDUX%3AeQaQxg%3Dr%3F87KR6xqpxQQPQxaPaxnlJx v8uOc5xQQQ00GQeoeJneqpfVtB%3F*KUp7BHSHqqy7XH6gXPeQ %7CRup6aQQ%7C/of=50,377,442)in my reply to you in the "Red Dawn" thread?

Tom Odom
06-16-2007, 01:30 PM
Did you see the link (http://render2.snapfish.com/render2/is=Yup6laP%7C%3Dup6RKKt%3AxxrKUp7BHD7Kofrj%3DQofrj 7t%3DzrRfDUX%3AeQaQxg%3Dr%3F87KR6xqpxQQPQxaPaxnlJx v8uOc5xQQQ00GQeoeJneqpfVtB%3F*KUp7BHSHqqy7XH6gXPeQ %7CRup6aQQ%7C/of=50,377,442)in my reply to you in the "Red Dawn" thread?

Yep

That ain't me--that guy has hair

Culpeper
06-16-2007, 07:55 PM
"Lone Survivor: The Eyewitness Account of Operation Redwing and the Lost Heroes of SEAL Team 10 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0316067598/104-3075668-4435162?ie=UTF8&tag=smallwarsjour-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=1789&creativeASIN=0316067598)" by Marcus Luttrell.

JeffC
06-16-2007, 09:57 PM
Ah, good. I just posted a recommendation for Luttrell's book in a different community here. I finished it in 10 hours - couldn't put it down, and had to wipe the tears out of my eyes about fifty times or so. What a heart-breaking, and inspiring, book.

Rifleman
06-16-2007, 10:07 PM
Currently:

- Chesty: The Story of Lieutenant General Lewis B. Puller, USMC (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/037576044X/104-3075668-4435162?ie=UTF8&tag=smallwarsjour-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=1789&creativeASIN=037576044X) by LTC Jon T. Hoffman, USMCR
- Police Sniper by Craig Roberts

In the queue:

- A Devil of a Whipping: The Battle of Cowpens (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/080784926X/104-3075668-4435162?ie=UTF8&tag=smallwarsjour-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=1789&creativeASIN=080784926X) by Lawrence E. Babits
- Cracking Cases: The Science of Solving Crimes (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1591021995/104-3075668-4435162?ie=UTF8&tag=smallwarsjour-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=1789&creativeASIN=1591021995) by Dr. Henry C. Lee

Sargent
06-17-2007, 02:59 AM
I'm working on my dissertation, so I'm reading a lot, but here are the highlights:

Josephus, Wars of the Jews (Whitson translation) -- I read a page or two before bed

Lt. Charles Gatewood and His Apache Wars Memoir (Kraft, ed.)

Near a Thousand Tables: A History of Food (dissertation-related, but my husband's deployment has been replete with important food/dining issues -- the many meals he shares with the IA BNCO, over which they do much work, not to mention the relationship building (dining diplomacy), as well as the boxes of baklava he has bought for my husband to send back to me, which, even three weeks later were awesome; the problems with contractors as food providers (aka, the unlearning of the first lesson of American military history); candy-bar diplomacy; and finally, let's not forget the relationship between culture/society, war, and military organizations)

Oliver Knight, Life and Manners in the Frontier Army


In the queue...

Agostino Von Hassell, Military High Life: Elegant Food Histories and Recipes

Mary Massey, Ersatz in the Confederacy



.

Mark O'Neill
06-17-2007, 04:26 AM
Applebees in DeRidder? Now that would be something--all that culture. Maybe we could go exotic and get the Outback with all that "Australian culture"--you know, like they came up with in Tampa, FL?

Riight now I am fully engaged with trends; they make for an exciting read :eek:

Tom,

At least you recognise the irony. That place is as Aussie as Jacques Chirac is an American neo-con. And, before anyone else gets in, 'Aussie Culture' is not an oxymoron. really.

I am currently reading Tom Mockaitis' The New Terrorism[I] , refreshing Kitson on my recently acquired Hailer Publishing edition of [I]Low Intensity Operations and bed time reading is Monash's The Australian Victories in France 1918.

In the queue are Horne's book A savage war of peace (have started it twice now but keep on getting distracted) and Boot's War made new.

cheers

Mark

Mike in Hilo
06-17-2007, 07:19 AM
Currently: Mark Moyar's Triumph Forsaken--The Vietnam War 1954-1965, which will be followed by Red Acropolis, Black Terror (Greek Civil War) by Andre Gerolymatos; and The Kappillan of Malta, an oldie by Nicholas Monsarrat.

Cheers,
Mike.

Granite_State
06-17-2007, 08:48 AM
Just finished Mao's On Guerrilla Warfare last night.

Now, Brave New War.

To come:
No God But God
Licensed to Kill
The Village
Iron Kingdom
The Village That Died for England

Plus lots of interwar and armor stuff for the dissertation.

Steve Blair
06-17-2007, 01:20 PM
I'm working on my dissertation, so I'm reading a lot, but here are the highlights:



Oliver Knight, Life and Manners in the Frontier Army


In the queue...

Agostino Von Hassell, Military High Life: Elegant Food Histories and Recipes

Mary Massey, Ersatz in the Confederacy



.

The Knight book you have in the list is very good, if you haven't read it before. The Frontier Army's one of my big research "things," so I've read it more than a couple of times now.

Current reading?
After Tet by Spector (re-read)
A series of SAMS monographs on cavalry in the UA, MOOTW, and so on (for a paper)
Low Level Hell by Mills (for the same paper - this is a re-read)
Setup by Tilford (for an article project - also a re-read)
Chasin Ghosts by Tierney (about 3/4 of the way through and not impressed)
waiting in the wings:
Taking Haiti by Renda
Masters of Death by Rhodes

SteveMetz
06-17-2007, 01:51 PM
The Knight book you have in the list is very good, if you haven't read it before. The Frontier Army's one of my big research "things," so I've read it more than a couple of times now.

Current reading?
After Tet by Spector (re-read)
A series of SAMS monographs on cavalry in the UA, MOOTW, and so on (for a paper)
Low Level Hell by Mills (for the same paper - this is a re-read)
Setup by Tilford (for an article project - also a re-read)
Chasin Ghosts by Tierney (about 3/4 of the way through and not impressed)
waiting in the wings:
Taking Haiti by Renda
Masters of Death by Rhodes

Butch Tilford will be ecstatic to know he still has readers. He teaches history at Grove City College now.

Steve Blair
06-17-2007, 01:59 PM
Butch Tilford will be ecstatic to know he still has readers. He teaches history at Grove City College now.

Earl Tilford's book is one of the most insightful I've seen regarding both the AF's role in Vietnam and its operational culture (along with The 11 Days of Christmas, although it is focused on Linebacker and LB II). I'm usually pointing our cadets in its direction so they can get a different view on the AF in Vietnam, as the MAS syllabus tends to trot out the "company line." And since it's a free pdf download from the AU I'm hoping at least a couple of them will eventually read it.

SteveMetz
06-17-2007, 02:07 PM
Earl Tilford's book is one of the most insightful I've seen regarding both the AF's role in Vietnam and its operational culture (along with The 11 Days of Christmas, although it is focused on Linebacker and LB II). I'm usually pointing our cadets in its direction so they can get a different view on the AF in Vietnam, as the MAS syllabus tends to trot out the "company line." And since it's a free pdf download from the AU I'm hoping at least a couple of them will eventually read it.

In my opinion the Air Force is the service least tolerant of deviation from the company line. Butch retired as a major, in part because he was an iconoclast.

T. Jefferson
06-17-2007, 02:08 PM
I am currently reading “Finding the Target” by Kagan, a very good analyses of transformation.

“The End of Iraq” by Galbraith is very informative, yet comes across as an apologetic for Kurdish independence.

Steve Blair
06-17-2007, 02:11 PM
In my opinion the Air Force is the service least tolerant of deviation from the company line. Butch retired as a major, in part because he was an iconoclast.

I would agree with that opinion. Been pondering an article or something along those lines for some time now. And they do themselves no favors with that attitude.

SteveMetz
06-17-2007, 02:26 PM
I am currently reading “Finding the Target” by Kagan, a very good analyses of transformation.

“The End of Iraq” by Galbraith is very informative, yet comes across as an apologetic for Kurdish independence.

I should have listed Fred's book in my queue as well. I wrote a letter to the editor of the Weekly Standard about Fred's most recent Iraq essay for them. I hope they run it next issue. Here's what it said,

I've just read Frederick Kagan's "The New Old Thing" in the June 11 issue. While I normally agree with Fred on most things, I take issue with his argument that the Abizaid-Casey strategy which focused on training Iraqi forces "failed" and the current approach of using American forces to protect Iraqi civilians is better. I base this on the history of insurgency over the past fifty years. In almost every instance where insurgents succeeded, the immediate precipitant was not violence against civilians, but a collapse of will on the part of local security forces. The key is not whether Iraqi security forces can themselves substitute for American forces in short term, but that they retain their morale, and coherence. That should be our primary goal over the next few years. Perhaps the Abizaid-Casey strategy was not the best way to assure that. If so, we should adjust our efforts to bolster the Iraqi security forces, not abandon them.

SteveMetz
06-17-2007, 02:30 PM
Been pondering an article or something along those lines for some time now.

You're probably familiar with it but the classic work on service cultures was Carl Builder's The Masks of War.

Having spent most of the career working for the Army, I've always liked the fact that it tolerates loyal iconoclasts (even though it doesn't promote them to flag rank). Krepinevich, MacGregor, McMaster, and Vandergrift come to mind. I was worried that under GEN Shinseki, the attitude seemed to be spreading that the Air Force routinely trounced the Army in budget battles because it "spoke with one voice." So the Army appeared to be moving in that direction. Luckily it was a passing fad.

Steve Blair
06-17-2007, 02:35 PM
You're probably familiar with it but the classic work on service cultures was Carl Builder's The Masks of War.

Having spent most of the career working for the Army, I've always liked the fact that it tolerates loyal iconoclasts (even though it doesn't promote them to flag rank). Krepinevich, MacGregor, McMaster, and Vandergrift come to mind. I was worried that under GEN Shinseki, the attitude seemed to be spreading that the Air Force routinely trounced the Army in budget battles because it "spoke with one voice." So the Army appeared to be moving in that direction. Luckily it was a passing fad.

The Marines seem to have a similar philosophy, and the Navy at least lets them ramble in the pages of Proceedings. Sadly, with the AF it's more a matter of "burn the heretics" than it is anything else. Or they let them write interesting papers for the Air University and then shuffle them away.:wry:

I took a course from Don Vandergiff last year. Very interesting guy. I just missed MacGregor when he had the Quarterhorse at Fort Riley, which is something I regret. He was seriously interested in the squadron's history and really pumped his troopers up with it.

Sargent
06-17-2007, 03:15 PM
Earl Tilford's book is one of the most insightful I've seen regarding both the AF's role in Vietnam and its operational culture (along with The 11 Days of Christmas, although it is focused on Linebacker and LB II). I'm usually pointing our cadets in its direction so they can get a different view on the AF in Vietnam, as the MAS syllabus tends to trot out the "company line." And since it's a free pdf download from the AU I'm hoping at least a couple of them will eventually read it.

Mark Clodfelter also does a very good job examining the air war in Vietnam. He makes one of the best points to counter the critics of the early air war -- the argument that it was too restrained, particularly the interdiction piece -- by pointing out that there simply were not enough targets. The predominant force in the early years was the VC/NLF, and they managed to fight on 35 tons of supplies per day. That translates into 7 deuce and a half trucks -- but probably more like a couple of hundred bicycles -- and such targets are not well-suited to air delivered ordnance, or interdiction of any sort.

This also explains why the air war was more successful under Nixon -- the decimation of the VC/NLF after Tet means more is coming from the North, and they are shifting to a more conventional form of war -- plus, Nixon is dealing with China, so the latter's support to the North is waning a bit. (At the other end, the early campaigns against the North _help_ that regime -- helps them to get assistance from the Soviets and the Chinese -- NVN GDP rises during Rolling Thunder.)

He also argues that the AF would not have conducted the air campaign much differently if it had been in charge.

SteveMetz
06-17-2007, 03:17 PM
The Marines seem to have a similar philosophy, and the Navy at least lets them ramble in the pages of Proceedings. Sadly, with the AF it's more a matter of "burn the heretics" than it is anything else. Or they let them write interesting papers for the Air University and then shuffle them away.:wry:

I took a course from Don Vandergiff last year. Very interesting guy. I just missed MacGregor when he had the Quarterhorse at Fort Riley, which is something I regret. He was seriously interested in the squadron's history and really pumped his troopers up with it.

Macgregor is an interesting cat. Utterly brilliant guy but I get the impression that he very quickly decides whether he considers someone he's met worth taking seriously. If not, it doesn't matter who they are. I remember an incident when he was a LTC (in uniform at the time) and he was in my office, pounding his fist on the desk yelling, "The Army Chief of Staff is an idiot!!" (An idea he was not alone in holding). Doug was my student at CGSC back in the day, and we've always gotten along fine.

Ski
06-17-2007, 03:26 PM
Don is a good friend of mine, and I can't say enough about what he has helped with in my career. The Army should have made him a LTC at least for his work however.

I've only met MacGregor once, and I found him to be probably the smartest officer I've ever met, but with an ego that matches his intellect. I'd rather have 100 of these types of men than the opposite.

Steve Blair
06-17-2007, 03:27 PM
Mark Clodfelter also does a very good job examining the air war in Vietnam. He makes one of the best points to counter the critics of the early air war -- the argument that it was too restrained, particularly the interdiction piece -- by pointing out that there simply were not enough targets. The predominant force in the early years was the VC/NLF, and they managed to fight on 35 tons of supplies per day. That translates into 7 deuce and a half trucks -- but probably more like a couple of hundred bicycles -- and such targets are not well-suited to air delivered ordnance, or interdiction of any sort.

This also explains why the air war was more successful under Nixon -- the decimation of the VC/NLF after Tet means more is coming from the North, and they are shifting to a more conventional form of war -- plus, Nixon is dealing with China, so the latter's support to the North is waning a bit. (At the other end, the early campaigns against the North _help_ that regime -- helps them to get assistance from the Soviets and the Chinese -- NVN GDP rises during Rolling Thunder.)

He also argues that the AF would not have conducted the air campaign much differently if it had been in charge.

Yeah, I've read Clodfelter as well. Both had good points, although I really enjoyed Tilford's tales about the AF and truck-busting.

Nixon also had the advantage of being able to target large conventional forces (Linebacker and the whole Easter Offensive). Once the PAVN decided to come across the borders with heavy conventional forces they played right into the hands of the airpower guys. Nixon also benefited from political conditions that helped cut certain supplies to the North (like SA-3s).

In terms of stuff coming from the North, I believe it was Tilford who suggested (though I've seen this in other place as well) that the interdiction effort actually hurt itself because it forced the Vietnamese to break the Ho Chi Minh Trail down into smaller and smaller pieces. NVA divisions (until the conventional Easter Offensive) still required a very small amount of supplies, and those smaller trails could handle the bikes, coolies, and trucks that kept the divisions going. More trails equaled less concentration, more possible hiding places, and huge targeting problems for the AF. One road with five trucks is easier to target than ten roads with five trucks.

T. Jefferson
06-17-2007, 03:49 PM
I should have listed Fred's book in my queue as well. I wrote a letter to the editor of the Weekly Standard about Fred's most recent Iraq essay for them. I hope they run it next issue. Here's what it said,

I've just read Frederick Kagan's "The New Old Thing" in the June 11 issue. While I normally agree with Fred on most things, I take issue with his argument that the Abizaid-Casey strategy which focused on training Iraqi forces "failed" and the current approach of using American forces to protect Iraqi civilians is better. I base this on the history of insurgency over the past fifty years. In almost every instance where insurgents succeeded, the immediate precipitant was not violence against civilians, but a collapse of will on the part of local security forces. The key is not whether Iraqi security forces can themselves substitute for American forces in short term, but that they retain their morale, and coherence. That should be our primary goal over the next few years. Perhaps the Abizaid-Casey strategy was not the best way to assure that. If so, we should adjust our efforts to bolster the Iraqi security forces, not abandon them.

I certainly agree that we ought not to abandon Iraqi security forces in general. The main question seems to be where and how to utilize our limited resources both military and political. Seems to me that only have a very small window left in which to effect many desperately needed changes.

Ironhorse
06-17-2007, 07:56 PM
I recently read John Stewart's (et al) America (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0446691860?ie=UTF8&tag=smallwarsjour-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=0446691860).

T. Jefferson, great work on the forward. ;) That was sheer & epic genius. That and the paragraph summarizing the working of Congress were Pullitzer material.

Abu Buckwheat
06-18-2007, 12:45 AM
Now that I finished my book on Iraq I am taking a look at some others ... I am almost finished Assassin's Gate ... I ran across this guy and the charachters in that book so many times its like reading my own Iraq bio! :D Excellent book in my very biased estimation.

SteveMetz
06-18-2007, 01:23 AM
Now that I finished my book on Iraq I am taking a look at some others ... I am almost finished Assassin's Gate ... I ran across this guy and the charachters in that book so many times its like reading my own Iraq bio! :D Excellent book in my very biased estimation.

How about come over here and finish *my* Iraq book then! I've got 300 pages and am waiting to hear if Potomac Press wants to sign it.

I sat next to Packer at the Chilis in Leavenworth during the famous February 2006 meeting to vet 3-24. Brilliant guy. I loved his piece on Kilcullen in last December 18th New Yorker. And I even made brownie points with my teenager who was impressed that I had dinner with someone who had been on the Daily Show a few weeks earlier.

If you haven't read it, I think Ron Suskind's The One Percent Doctrine is one of the most important books to come out over the past few years.

Abu Buckwheat
06-18-2007, 02:01 AM
How about come over here and finish *my* Iraq book then! I've got 300 pages and am waiting to hear if Potomac Press wants to sign it.


Good luck with Potomac. I got told that no one wanted to read a book on the insurgents... by nine publishers over two years. Said Iraq was unmarketable and not likely to last as a political subject! However they all wanted a personal narrative story of my time in the Palace! :D

I loved the sourcing in the One Percent Doctrine but hated his writing ... terrible prose.

Sargent
06-18-2007, 02:14 AM
The Knight book you have in the list is very good, if you haven't read it before. The Frontier Army's one of my big research "things," so I've read it more than a couple of times now.

Current reading?
After Tet by Spector (re-read)
A series of SAMS monographs on cavalry in the UA, MOOTW, and so on (for a paper)
Low Level Hell by Mills (for the same paper - this is a re-read)
Setup by Tilford (for an article project - also a re-read)
Chasin Ghosts by Tierney (about 3/4 of the way through and not impressed)
waiting in the wings:
Taking Haiti by Renda
Masters of Death by Rhodes

I zorched through the Knight book early in my research, to get the lay of the land, and am now going through it in detail for use in the diss. Of course, I think Coffman's Old Army is great for this period as well. The chapter on the families in the post-Civil War period is a hidden treasure. I think most probably skip it -- who wants to read about the families? -- but I could swear that Coffman suggests that Libbie Custer and Bill Hickock had an affair -- she certainly seemed to know how to have a good time. Greene's Ladies and Officers of the US Army (or Army Aristocracy) is another good one, though he is in an obvious snit about all of the partying, and is very critical of any wife who is not on her best behavior.

I have a memory of reading Mills, for my MA thesis, but I read so many VN memoirs I could just be making it up. What is the paper?

Cheers,
Jill

SteveMetz
06-18-2007, 09:25 AM
Good luck with Potomac. I got told that no one wanted to read a book on the insurgents... by nine publishers over two years. Said Iraq was unmarketable and not likely to last as a political subject! However they all wanted a personal narrative story of my time in the Palace! :D

I loved the sourcing in the One Percent Doctrine but hated his writing ... terrible prose.

The project Potomac is looking at isn't really about the insurgency per se. It's called Iraq and the Evolution of American Strategy and looks at the way we used our conflict with Iraq as a lesson and a model from at least 1991 on. In other words, it first drove RMA thinking and transformation in the Cebrowski/Owens mode, then drove a revised version of transformation that we're in the midst of today.

My Learning From Iraq (http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pdffiles/PUB752.pdf) will be one chapter.

jonSlack
06-18-2007, 11:02 AM
Since March I have managed to find time to read "God's Terrorists" by Charles Allen, a biography on Orde Wingate titled "Fire in the Night", "Banker to the Poor" by Muhammad Yunus, a biography of Mike Calvert titled "Mad Mike," Farwell's "Mr. Kipling's Army," and Chuck Palahniuk's "Survivor." I also read a smattering of articles and essays from various authors from sources such as Foreign Policy and The Atlantic to include Huntington's "Clash of Civilizations" essay from Foreign Affairs and Fukayama's essay "The End of History."

Right now I am taking a break from military history and working my way through Lord of the Rings for the first time. I should finish the Two Towers today or tomorrow and then move right along into the Return of the King. Next is either going to be Charles Allen's "Soldier Sahibs" or "Brave New War" if it finally gets here.

I highly recommend both "God's Terrorists" and "Fire in the Night." "God's Terrorists" centers on the origins, development, and history of militant Sunni Islam in the Indian subcontinent and the development of Wahabism in Saudi Arabia and its spread and impact on the Indian subcontinent and the rest of the world. The book ends in modern times with the rise of the Taliban and AQ in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

As mentioned above, "Fire in the Night" is a biography of Orde Wingate. It chronicles his entire life but specifically centers on his service in Palestine, Ethopia, and finally Burma. While his service and accomplishments in those three theaters were very interesting and remarkable. However, also interesting are the authors' coverage of Wingate as an individual including his eccentricities, some of which made me laugh out loud a number of times and also lead me wonder how an officer like Wingate would fare in the US Army today. One especially humorous, but not atypical, incident involved Wingate's packing list on a reconnaissance flight of Italian controlled Ethopia which consisted of nothing but "a large piece of cheese, an onion, and an old-fashioned alarm clock with a bell and carrying handle." Following the completion of the recon, when asked why he carried the alarm clock, Wingate responded by announcing "Because wrist watches are no damned good - they never work."

Steve Blair
06-18-2007, 12:55 PM
I have a memory of reading Mills, for my MA thesis, but I read so many VN memoirs I could just be making it up. What is the paper?

Cheers,
Jill

Working on an idea for using cavalry as a reaction force for UW efforts. It's something I've been kicking around for a while, and the class gives me a nice excuse.

SteveMetz
06-18-2007, 01:20 PM
Working on an idea for using cavalry as a reaction force for UW efforts. It's something I've been kicking around for a while, and the class gives me a nice excuse.

Horse cavalry? (I suspect Huba wass de Czege would love that!).

If so, I remember that the original Small Wars manual does offer some useful advice on how to pack a mule.

John T. Fishel
06-18-2007, 01:49 PM
From my vantage point here on Rancho La Espada I can argue that horses DO provide some real advantages in terms of mobility - especially in insurgent warfare. BTW, both the Small Wars Manual and Callwell's Small Wars discuss the use of horses and mules.

During the El Salvador war, one of the major problems faced by the ESAF was pursuit of guerrila units. The standard G tactic was to drop anti-personnel mines on the trail to discourage direct pursuit from getting too close. Indeed, most ESAF casualties were caused by mines. One obvious solution was increased use of helicopters but the US was not going to supply more helos in the significant numbers required.

Meanwhile, in the Small Wars Operations Research Directorate (SWORD) we had a countermine program going with the ESAF. It involved a combination of off the shelf metal detectors, blast chaps and booties from Natick labs, and a c-m training program. I tried to sell my boss on using horses to substitute for the helos that were never going to come. One cultural problem was that the ESAF cavalry (like most horsemen) really loved their horses and such a program would put them at risk. So, I proposed calling these folk "Mounted Infantry" and mounting them on cheap little horses that could be had for about $150 each. My idea was a mounted pursuit platoon with a remuda of 5 horses per rider. The point man would be equipped with the blast chaps and booties. His horse would trigger the mine - the animal would be destroyed but the rider would be safe - and a second equally equipped rider would take point. The first guy would mount a new horse and follow on. Meanwhile, there would be no slowing of the pursuit.

Needless to say, I failed to convince my boss:( but it was still a good idea.

BTW, SF has used horses both in Afghanistan and, more importantly, in JTF 6 on the border with Mexico in the "Drug War."

Steve Blair
06-18-2007, 01:54 PM
Horse cavalry? (I suspect Huba wass de Czege would love that!).

If so, I remember that the original Small Wars manual does offer some useful advice on how to pack a mule.

Not so much horse (although I'm not opposed to that at all). I'm looking at the Vietnam-era division cavalry squadron as the framework. That said, I'm sure that horse mounted elements could be worked in, and they certainly have a role to play in some situations.

SteveMetz
06-18-2007, 01:54 PM
From my vantage point here on Rancho La Espada I can argue that horses DO provide some real advantages in terms of mobility - especially in insurgent warfare. BTW, both the Small Wars Manual and Callwell's Small Wars discuss the use of horses and mules.

During the El Salvador war, one of the major problems faced by the ESAF was pursuit of guerrila units. The standard G tactic was to drop anti-personnel mines on the trail to discourage direct pursuit from getting too close. Indeed, most ESAF casualties were caused by mines. One obvious solution was increased use of helicopters but the US was not going to supply more helos in the significant numbers required.

Meanwhile, in the Small Wars Operations Research Directorate (SWORD) we had a countermine program going with the ESAF. It involved a combination of off the shelf metal detectors, blast chaps and booties from Natick labs, and a c-m training program. I tried to sell my boss on using horses to substitute for the helos that were never going to come. One cultural problem was that the ESAF cavalry (like most horsemen) really loved their horses and such a program would put them at risk. So, I proposed calling these folk "Mounted Infantry" and mounting them on cheap little horses that could be had for about $150 each. My idea was a mounted pursuit platoon with a remuda of 5 horses per rider. The point man would be equipped with the blast chaps and booties. His horse would trigger the mine - the animal would be destroyed but the rider would be safe - and a second equally equipped rider would take point. The first guy would mount a new horse and follow on. Meanwhile, there would be no slowing of the pursuit.

Needless to say, I failed to convince my boss:( but it was still a good idea.

BTW, SF has used horses both in Afghanistan and, more importantly, in JTF 6 on the border with Mexico in the "Drug War."

I hope PETA doesn't monitor this board. You're going to end up with a bunch of unshaven protesters outside Rancho La Espada. Of course, the idea is not without precedent. The Navy used to train dolphins to blow up underwater mines. But I think it gave up because it was so hard to convince the dolphins to wear that white silk headband before a mission.

Tom Odom
06-18-2007, 02:16 PM
How about come over here and finish *my* Iraq book then! I've got 300 pages and am waiting to hear if Potomac Press wants to sign it.

I sat next to Packer at the Chilis in Leavenworth during the famous February 2006 meeting to vet 3-24. Brilliant guy. I loved his piece on Kilcullen in last December 18th New Yorker. And I even made brownie points with my teenager who was impressed that I had dinner with someone who had been on the Daily Show a few weeks earlier.

If you haven't read it, I think Ron Suskind's The One Percent Doctrine is one of the most important books to come out over the past few years.

I really enjoyed Packer's insights on the evolution of the neo-cons and their rise to influence. Pages 30-31 are especially interesting.

His writings on Chalabi are on the mark; funny that we dismissed pretty much out of hand in the early 90s reports sourced to the "Iraqi resistance". Packer's book does much to explain how that all changed.

Tom

Granite_State
06-18-2007, 03:18 PM
Working on an idea for using cavalry as a reaction force for UW efforts. It's something I've been kicking around for a while, and the class gives me a nice excuse.

Can you throw a post up when this gets published and is available on the internet? My PhD stuff covers similar territory, about eighty years back though, and I'd love to read it.

Steve Blair
06-18-2007, 04:02 PM
It's for a class, so it might not make it to the internet (at least not initially...if it's solid enough I'll look at shopping it out). But I'd be happy to send you a copy once it's over and done with.

Sargent
06-18-2007, 06:23 PM
All --

My husband just read David Danelo's Blood Stripes. I thought you might enjoy his comments.




So in the beginning of the book the author spends some time giving something of a primer on the Marine Corps. Its interesting to read because I've never really stepped back to think about some of the nuances and details. For example he talks about the really junior guys (Pvt-LCpl) and says that basically there are four groups: boots, outcasts, former LCpls, then the giant mass that is the LCpl. Boots are obvious, and as he interestingly noted, are generally viewed as communal property. Everyone else belongs to a particular fireteam / squad / platoon / company, and even if you outrank someone you can't just grab them and tell them what to do. Boots are the exception. Outcasts are those individuals who are former LCpls and were busted down for doing something really stupid or un-Marine like. They aren't boots, but are treated somewhat like them, though they will often try to bully the actual boots. Former LCpls are the guys who were busted down for less critical issues -- usually underage drinking or similar. They are definitely not boots, and retain some respect. They will boss around the boots when they are lumped in with them. Then there is the mass of LCpls. "Being a LCpl is like being caught in a real-life version of Lord of the Flies. Boots survive by doing what they are told. LCpls excel through alpha male characteristics of strength, cleverness, skill, and force of personality. LCpls who possess greater leadership ability ... are promoted into more senior positions, such as SAW gunners. The strongest among them become fire team leaders. They are given omnipotent power by the gods of the Marine Corps over the lives of three other Marines".

He goes on to deconstruct other areas as well. He talks about the umbiquitous "who you with?" question and how the response is almost always just two number (i.e. 3/11) and what that means in the Marine Corps.

There are other areas he goes into, but basically I think he does a pretty good job giving people an introduction into the background and mindset of Marines.

The area I found most interesting is his treatment of the Marine Corps view of Order/Disorder. He talks about how the Marine Corps embraces both incredible detailed Order and fully chaotic Disorder. More specifically how individuals, especially leaders, have to walk a balance between the two while paying respect to both. He brings up the standard rank and file Order down to every squad leader has a list of every item each of his Marines has and their serial numbers. The list go on up the chain, so every platoon / company etc has some massive amount of detail - trying to establish Order. Operations are planned, briefed, rehearsed, prepared for, inspected, etc -- again trying to establish Order. Then however there is the ultimate Disorder - combat - which Marines seem to be able to excel in, and which the Marine Corps tells Marines they have to be able to operate in. On top of that leaders have to establish their own balance between the two for everything. Follow every rule and you'll be know as an unimaginative, uninspired robot and Marines will think less of you and not want to follow you. Flaunt every rule and you'll be know as a loose cannon and not a team player. Marines will think less of you and not want to follow you.

One example -- any squad leader worth his salt will not let another squad leader tell his Marines what to do (except for the communal boots for things like working parties). This, he says, is adherence to order. Trying to make things and authority clear and unambiguous. However that same squad leader, faced with a disciplinary problem within his squad, will shun the orderly and established disciplinary enforcement process. He will prefer, and be more respected for, not following the rules and coming up with his own methods. He will even be given at least tacit approval by the chain of command to do this. In fact, it is almost viewed as a failure to resort to the orderly and established process.

On a broader level he talks about the extreme order and discipline the Marine Corps is known for. Then he talks about how the Marine Corps also prides itself on an 'expeditionary mindset' -- embracing the disorder, and basically saying "just drop us off and we'll figure things out". This leads to things like in 29Palms - hey I need a new radiator hose for my HMMWV. Well I'll put in a request for one, but I know they won't get one here soon, so I'll see if I can scrounge one off of that old truck they dropped off for use as an arty target.

I'm rambling, but I thought it was quite interesting. The Marine Corps own yin/yang concept. I know you think I'm such a big rule follower,* but you should know that in the field I'm known to be more on the disorder side. I always get into a little trouble for being too much of a cowboy about things. Even here. (The latest was not wearing a cover on Camp Fallujah. We come in in full combat attire. We de-gear and walk the 50 yards from our vehicles to the chow hall. I don't see a point in covers, and we don't always know when we are coming in so sometimes we don't have them with us. It irritates the hell out of people because "its a base regulation to wear covers blah blah blah" -- I've been talked to a couple times about me or my guys not wearing covers).

One last interesting tie in. He knows how Marines love the Spartans and their view of things. He brings up that the order/disorder and rules/expeditionary mindset is similar to what the Spartans tried to instill. He brings up the Spartan agoge - the military training all Spartan males had to attend starting at age 7. At the agoge the boys were not given enough food, but they were also drilled on the importance of laws and rules. The Spartans intentionally made it so the boys had to steal food to survive (or at least to thrive in the agoge) even though it was specifically against Spartan law (the thing they were training to protect). The Spartans tried to instill respect for the orderly, but also a resourcefulness and ability to operate within disorder.


* Actually, I chafe because I know that he is a big rule breaker on behalf of his Marines and his mission, but when it comes to his own existence as an individual within the institution he can be a little too "this is the way they do it and I can't change that."

BScully
06-18-2007, 08:54 PM
Just finished reading Cobra II and Imperial Grunts. Just started one from Tom Odom's reading list...The True Believer by Eric Hoffer. So far a very interesting read. Next up is Shake Hands with the Devil by Dallaire, also from Tom's list.

Not a book, but extremely good (and from Tom's list) I also read T.E. Lawrence's The Evolution of a Revolt.

Brian

Jedburgh
06-19-2007, 02:37 AM
Currently re-reading Patrick Seale's The Struggle for Syria (http://www.amazon.com/Struggle-Syria-Post-War-Politics-1945-1958/dp/0300039700). Last read it over a decade ago and its been sitting on the shelf. I picked it up again because I just finished reading The Great Syrian Revolt and the Rise of Arab Nationalism (http://www.amazon.com/Syrian-Revolt-Nationalism-Modern-Middle/dp/0292706804/ref=sr_1_2/002-5787829-3157653?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1182220306&sr=1-2) by Michael Provenance. Seale's book covers the period following that covered in Provenance's, so I figured I'd go through it again to tie the threads together....

Culpeper
06-19-2007, 05:01 AM
Imperial Grunts: Robert D. Kaplan (http://www.amazon.com/Imperial-Grunts-American-Military-Philippines/dp/1400034574/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-7259232-7266305?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1182229198&sr=8-1)

Culpeper
06-19-2007, 05:11 AM
I recently read John Stewart's (et al) America (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0446691860?ie=UTF8&tag=smallwarsjour-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=0446691860).

T. Jefferson, great work on the forward. ;) That was sheer & epic genius. That and the paragraph summarizing the working of Congress were Pullitzer material.

I have a copy of that book. My sister in San Francisco sent it to me for Christmas. She gets all her news from John Stewart. She seems very happy. No joke.

Stevely
06-19-2007, 05:36 AM
I just finished Brave New War and recently before that, My Life Among the Deathworks by Philip Rieff, which is long and depressing indictment against modern anti-culture, written by a member of the culture establishment (professor of art and sociology IIRC at UVa, recently deceased). Unfortunately Rieff spent too much time in the belly of the beast, and his writing has much of the stilted, somewhat disjointed, jargon-ridden style found amongst po-mo culture types, but it was a rewarding read nonetheless. I will post something about it when I have the time/ energy. Probably join the BNW discussion at some point, too...

Currently reading Jesus of Nazareth by Pope Benedict.

Old Eagle
06-19-2007, 12:42 PM
Just re-read The Ugly American. I still have my 55cent original copy. Lederer & Burdick use irony in the title, of course, because the chapter on the "ugly American" is actually about a true hero, while many of the beautiful people are really the ugly ones. Military comes off pretty well.

Gotta re-read Hofer now that Tom has dredged that out of my memory.

goesh
06-19-2007, 12:54 PM
The Little Green Book: Sayings of Ayatollah Khomeini

Ski
06-19-2007, 01:54 PM
Mostly focused on Master's degree related reading:

Stonewall in the Valley by Robert Tanner
Maurice's Strategikon translated by George Dennis
Warfare, State and Society in the Byzantine World, 565-1204 by John Haldon
Storm of Steel by Mary Habeck
The Training of Officers by Martin Van Creveld (have read this many times)
Technology and War by Martin Van Creveld
The Russian Way of War, Operational Art 1904-1940 by Richard Harrison

Culpeper
06-20-2007, 05:28 AM
Mostly focused on Master's degree related reading:

Stonewall in the Valley by Robert Tanner
Maurice's Strategikon translated by George Dennis
Warfare, State and Society in the Byzantine World, 565-1204 by John Haldon
Storm of Steel by Mary Habeck
The Training of Officers by Martin Van Creveld (have read this many times)
Technology and War by Martin Van Creveld
The Russian Way of War, Operational Art 1904-1940 by Richard Harrison

I once read, "I Rode with Stonewall" (http://www.amazon.com/Rode-Stonewall-Henry-Kyd-Douglas/dp/0807803375); by Henry K. Douglas. It is interesting due to the fact that he wrote in basically real time and doesn't describe battles necessarily by the names we are now familiar with.

LawVol
06-20-2007, 04:40 PM
I'm ashamed to admit that I'm only just now reading Nagl's book. :o Next in the queue is Patrolling Shanghai (thanks Slapout) and Patrolling Baghdad. If anyone has read the Baghdad book and has any insight, please pass it along especially if you've done the stuff is discusses.

Thoughts for the future: The Education of Henry Adams and The History of the Peloponnesian War.

nichols
06-20-2007, 04:49 PM
My night time reading is currently divided with two books;

The First Salute by Barbara Tuckman
The Burning of Washington by Antony Pitch

My daytime hip pocket book;

What went wrong by Bernard Lewis

My last roadtrip book was Imperial Grunts.

Stu-6
06-23-2007, 07:24 PM
Currently working onThe Modern Middle East by Mehran Kamrava, so far it is as solid and very readable work dealing with the political history of the region since WWI. Next on the to read pile The Terrorist of Iraq by Malcolm W. Nance.

zenpundit
06-23-2007, 09:27 PM
Martin van Creveld's The Changing Face of War (http://www.amazon.com/Changing-Face-War-Lessons-Combat/dp/0891419012/ref=pd_sim_b_2/104-7052511-7160729). The last couple of chapters would be of particular interest, despite the harshly critical tone, to SWC members.

Next up will be either Caesar (http://www.amazon.com/Caesar-Life-Colossus-Adrian-Goldsworthy/dp/0300120486/ref=sr_1_1/104-7052511-7160729?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1182633993&sr=1-1) by Adrian Goldsworthy and/or Boot's War Made New (http://www.amazon.com/War-Made-New-Technology-Warfare/dp/1592402224/ref=sr_1_1/104-7052511-7160729?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1182633956&sr=1-1).

Bodhi
06-24-2007, 12:38 AM
I recently finished Michael Oren's "Power, Faith, and Fantasy: America in the Middle East: 1776-Present" and highly recommend it. Currently, I'm just now finishing up John Ferling's "Almost A Miracle: The American Victory in the War of Independence." His "A Leap in the Dark" covering the same period was great, and this is definitely not disappointing. Next in the queue are Phillip Bobbitt's "The Shield of Achilles: War, Peace, and the Course of History" and Timothy P.Wickham-Crowley's "Guerrillas and Revolution in Latin America: A Comparitive Study of Insurgents and Regimes Since 1956."
Semper Fidelis

Stevely
06-24-2007, 02:52 AM
Next in the queue are Phillip Bobbitt's "The Shield of Achilles: War, Peace, and the Course of History"

I really need to finish that. Very insightful and interesting book, but a bit long on the explication, perhaps. Or, I have the attention span of a 10 year old...

Ski
06-24-2007, 11:27 AM
I get to read "Strategy" by Liddell Hart this week, joy to the world.

SteveMetz
06-24-2007, 11:53 AM
I'm ashamed to admit that I'm only just now reading Nagl's book. :o Next in the queue is Patrolling Shanghai (thanks Slapout) and Patrolling Baghdad. If anyone has read the Baghdad book and has any insight, please pass it along especially if you've done the stuff is discusses.

Thoughts for the future: The Education of Henry Adams and The History of the Peloponnesian War.

I was ashamed to read Nagl's book as well. At least that's what I keep telling him.

Mark O'Neill
06-24-2007, 12:00 PM
I get to read "Strategy" by Liddell Hart this week, joy to the world.

At least it is far easier read than Clausewitz! Do yourself a favour and follow it up with Andre Beaufre's An Introduction to Strategy I think they make a good tandem read.

Cheers

Mark

Ski
06-24-2007, 12:13 PM
Thanks Mark, will do.

phil b
06-24-2007, 10:09 PM
Just starting reading "Wing to Wing: Air Combat in China, 1943-45". It's the story of the Chinese-American Composite Wing. Technically a Chinese Air Force unit, it was established to train Chinese air and ground crews up to the level modern air combat. The unit was organized so that the Chinese and American components mirrored each other (Chinese CO-American CO, American pilot-Chinese co-pilot and so on among the air and ground crews). The unit flew P-40s, P-51s and B-25s. The CACW produced 5 American aces and 3 Chinese aces.

slapout9
06-25-2007, 12:59 AM
Here is link to paper written by Steven Metz in 1993 on the "Future of Insurgency" I read it some time ago but I read it again very good paper. Read and then read Brave New War and find on Mr. Metz was figuring this out in 93 but not to many were listening. especially like the terms Spiritual Insurgency and Commercial Insurgency. Best price on the net free download:wry:

http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pdffiles/PUB344.pdf

PhilR
06-27-2007, 03:21 AM
I mm landing in MNF-I HQs in 3-4 days, so I've been mainly going through LtGen Mattis's MARCENT reading list (I'm pretty sure SWC has a link to it) and the host of books on Iraq and COIN. Coming as a planner from one staff (III MEF in Okinawa) to another staff, two recent reads that I think may be helpful are:

Strategic Assessment in War by Scott Gartner (1997)-Gartner gives an interesting analysis of how war leaders use key indicators to base significant decisions upon. He doesn't argue about whether the indicators are correct, but he finds that its mainly the rate of change of an indicator significantly changes that decisions are made (for good or bad), not when they reach some plateau, etc.

How to Lie With Statistics by Darrell Huff (1954)-A small classic in its field. Anyone subjected to, or involved with, the intersection of EBO and powerpoint should be required to read this.

For just a good read on leadership and the chemistry involved in creating new military formations, I recently read Ridgeway's Paratroopers by Clay Blair (1985).

SteveMetz
06-27-2007, 09:00 AM
Here is link to paper written by Steven Metz in 1993 on the "Future of Insurgency" I read it some time ago but I read it again very good paper. Read and then read Brave New War and find on Mr. Metz was figuring this out in 93 but not to many were listening. especially like the terms Spiritual Insurgency and Commercial Insurgency. Best price on the net free download:wry:

http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pdffiles/PUB344.pdf

Yea, but he was on drugs.

Ken White
06-27-2007, 04:12 PM
are equally good...

Hopefully, he learned that long term use is bad for the circulatory system. Or is it the lymphatic system? Something, I forget... I'm old... :wry:

Ski
06-27-2007, 09:13 PM
I just read one of the most peculiar books on the US military.

It's called "The Men Who Stare at Goats" and it's about, well, a whole bunch of off the wall stuff such as psychics, the "first earth battalion" and weird interrogation techniques.

Seems to be based around a guy named MG Stubblebine who was the Army G2 in the early 80's.

Weird, and I can't believe most of the stuff is true. Anyone ever heard of this sort of thing going on?

SteveMetz
06-27-2007, 10:07 PM
I just read one of the most peculiar books on the US military.

It's called "The Men Who Stare at Goats" and it's about, well, a whole bunch of off the wall stuff such as psychics, the "first earth battalion" and weird interrogation techniques.

Seems to be based around a guy named MG Stubblebine who was the Army G2 in the early 80's.

Weird, and I can't believe most of the stuff is true. Anyone ever heard of this sort of thing going on?

I think there was a Marine version of that as well. It was called "The Men Who Date Goats."

Jedburgh
06-27-2007, 10:26 PM
Here's a slightly less sensationalized view of the same subject matter:

Unconventional Human Intelligence Support: Transcendent and Asymmetric Warfare Implications of
Remote Viewing (http://www.lfr.org/LFR/csl/library/Bremseth.pdf)

From 1972 until 1995, United States military and intelligence organizations conducted paranormal research and operations involving a process known as remote viewing. Remote viewing is generally recognized within the scientific community as the psychic ability to access and provide accurate information, regardless of distance, shielding or time, about people, places, objects or events inaccessible through any normally recognized means. Official confirmation of government participation in such research occurred in 1995 when a small portion of the voluminous classified research material was made publicly available via the Freedom of Information Act.

Paranormal research, involving parapsychological and psychical functioning (PSI), has been perceived as a controversial field by American academia and scientific communities who have met its reported results with outright dismissal, skepticism, or methodological criticism. Since both the military and the intelligence agencies pursue efforts deemed acceptable risks, their involvement with remote viewing, therefore, sparks curiosity. What made the risk of potential ridicule by association acceptable? This paper reviews remote viewing's evolution, examines why and how the United States military and intelligence agencies became involved in its controversial application as a unique HUMINT support method, and explores its, heretofore, unrecognized status as an important and possibly revolutionary form of warfare with asymmetrical implications.

Dominique R. Poirier
06-27-2007, 11:07 PM
Both at the same time, depending the mood of the moment:

- Spy Wars - Moles, Mysteries, and Deadly Games, by Tennent H. Bagley.
- Movies - A Psychological Study, by Martha Wolfestein and Nathan Leites.
- Espionnage Business - Guerre Economique et Renseignement, by Jean Jacques Cecile (A French book. Don't know whether it is available in English.)

Ski
06-28-2007, 12:57 AM
BWAAAAHHAAAAA! LMAO! Nice one Steve!:D



I think there was a Marine version of that as well. It was called "The Men Who Date Goats."

SteveMetz
06-28-2007, 01:02 AM
BWAAAAHHAAAAA! LMAO! Nice one Steve!:D

Someone said T.X. Hammes lurks here, so I'm trying to smoke him out.

slapout9
06-28-2007, 01:13 AM
There was a movie made about this called "Suspect Zero" with Ben Kingsley as an FBI agent that does this. Based loosely on allegations that the FBI was involved in (Remote Viewing) this also. Should be out on DVD. There is a website I found once where you can order the remote Viewing kits if you want to try it yourself. Just let the SWC know when you find out where Bin Laden is hiding.:eek:

Here is the link for your Remote Viewing supplies and training also a short video of a Remote Viewing test by a TV station.

http://www.remoteviewing.com/movies/watchmovie.html?title=demonstration&act=select&player=wmv&speed=300

Correction: title of the movie is "Suspect Zero"

Tom Odom
06-29-2007, 04:06 PM
I just read one of the most peculiar books on the US military.

It's called "The Men Who Stare at Goats" and it's about, well, a whole bunch of off the wall stuff such as psychics, the "first earth battalion" and weird interrogation techniques.

Seems to be based around a guy named MG Stubblebine who was the Army G2 in the early 80's.

Weird, and I can't believe most of the stuff is true. Anyone ever heard of this sort of thing going on?

He spoke at my advance course graduation. I had a senior officer tell me about the spoon bending.

And yes he is Lee Marvin's brother--he made a joke about his brother's palimony battles when he spoke to us.

Tom

Tom Odom
06-29-2007, 04:12 PM
I read Stirlings Desert Raiders when I was a kid. And I picked up a reprint in 1985 and packed it around for 22 years before reading it (again) on the flight to Kansas this week.

Funny thing was that I had been to many of the places referred to in the book, like Kabrit which is in the Sinai along the Bitter Lakes and had a Bar-Lev line position when I was there in the mid to late 80s. Also the book resonated more after 20 + years of developing an understanding just how hard it is to change a military. That Stirlling did it at age 24 is truly remarkable.

Tom

Tc2642
06-29-2007, 06:50 PM
Reading -

On Strategy: A Critical Analysis of the Vietnam War H.G. Summers

The Third Wave A. Toffler

Clausewitz R. Parkinson

Jut finished -

The Interrogator's War: Inside the Secret War Against Al Qaeda C. Mackey with G. Miller.

Found it to be a very informative and a little easier to read than the other three but a real eye opener. Recommended.

SteveMetz
06-29-2007, 07:17 PM
Reading -

On Strategy: A Critical Analysis of the Vietnam War H.G. Summers

The Third Wave A. Toffler

Clausewitz R. Parkinson

Jut finished -

The Interrogator's War: Inside the Secret War Against Al Qaeda C. Mackey with G. Miller.

Found it to be a very informative and a little easier to read than the other three but a real eye opener. Recommended.

On Strategy was written in the office next to mine.

Sarajevo071
07-03-2007, 01:12 AM
Making a Killing: The Explosive Story of a Hired Gun in Iraq
by James Ashcroft

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Making-Killing-Explosive-Story-Hired/dp/1852273119

Old Eagle
07-03-2007, 12:31 PM
The Places In Between by Rory Stewart. Scotsman's walk from Herat to Kabul 2002. Very big on cultural geography. Wish I had read it before going to Afghanistan.

Jedburgh
07-03-2007, 01:22 PM
The Places In Between by Rory Stewart. Scotsman's walk from Herat to Kabul 2002. Very big on cultural geography. Wish I had read it before going to Afghanistan.
I just picked that one up, but haven't read it yet. I recently read his Prince of the Marshes (http://www.amazon.com/Prince-Marshes-Other-Occupational-Hazards/dp/0156032791/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-6046066-4829567?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1183468767&sr=1-1), which I really enjoyed, having spent a bit of time in the same areas of Iraq during the same time-frame. The style of writing has faint echoes of that of the memoirs of Brit political officers who served in Iraq in the '20s.

goesh
07-03-2007, 03:52 PM
I'm reading available essays and pamphlets by Mahmud Es'ad Cosan on Sufism trying to focus in on the Naqshbandi sect

Tom Odom
07-03-2007, 03:57 PM
I'm reading available essays and pamphlets by Mahmud Es'ad Cosan on Sufism trying to focus in on the Naqshbandi sect

I am reminded of a grad school prof at the Naval Postgraduate School who taught us about Islam. A Sufi, he would repeatedly tell us that contempating our navels was good Sufism but only bad Sufis contemplated their anuses.

I simply won't ask where you might be reading this tract...:eek:

Tom

goesh
07-03-2007, 05:14 PM
The Flower and the Rifle

Don't you see?
We are the same
my petal is the trigger
giving birth and death
the same mother
the trigger is my petal
giving death and birth
the same father
Don't you see?
we must carry the flower and the rifle
giving but one to the advancing stranger
who knows not of birth or death
but trods unknowing in Allah's world of motionless purity
the echo of falling petals and casings
brings His stillness
Don't you see?

attributed to Hassan al-Banna, founder of the Muslim Brotherhood
but not verified

I think I'm at the lower end of contemplation here, Tom

SteveMetz
07-03-2007, 05:23 PM
The Flower and the Rifle

Don't you see?
We are the same
my petal is the trigger
giving birth and death
the same mother
the trigger is my petal
giving death and birth
the same father
Don't you see?
we must carry the flower and the rifle
giving but one to the advancing stranger
who knows not of birth or death
but trods unknowing in Allah's world of motionless purity
the echo of falling petals and casings
brings His stillness
Don't you see?

attributed to Hassan al-Banna, founder of the Muslim Brotherhood
but not verified

I think I'm at the lower end of contemplation here, Tom

Now, see, that's our problem--our warfighters are not poets. Well, except for the Marines, but most of their poems begin, "There was an old man from Nantucket..."

Military Review actually ran one of my ditties in their "war poetry" section last year.

goesh
07-03-2007, 06:34 PM
In Jerusalem: by Mahmoud Darwish
(an excerpt)

.............
A woman soldier shouted:
Is that you again? Didn’t I kill you?
I said: You killed me . . . and I forgot, like you, to die.

SWJED
07-03-2007, 06:43 PM
Now, see, that's our problem--our warfighters are not poets. Well, except for the Marines, but most of their poems begin, "There was an old man from Nantucket..."

Military Review actually ran one of my ditties in their "war poetry" section last year.

Chesty Puller was a fine Marine
and a fine Marine was he
He called for his whiskey
and called for his wife
and called for his corporals three....

Is that better?

jlechelt
07-03-2007, 08:39 PM
Currently reading Prodigal Soldiers by James Kitfield.
Fantastic book.

SteveMetz
07-03-2007, 09:53 PM
Currently reading Prodigal Soldiers by James Kitfield.
Fantastic book.

He's very good. His War and Destiny is nicely done as well. Do you know him? He's very approachable.

Jimbo
07-03-2007, 11:04 PM
The Utility of Force[I] by Rupert Smith

[I]Occupation of Iraq on standby

jlechelt
07-04-2007, 01:17 AM
He's very good. His War and Destiny is nicely done as well. Do you know him? He's very approachable.

Thanks for the response Steve. No I don't know him, but I will certainly try to make contact with him at some point. The book is absolutely fascinating. I bought his War and Destiny: looks good as well, but I'm kind of curious as to why it might not have gotten wider play. Is it because he writes to a more specialized audience? Not, perhaps, the same crowd as the masses who buy Fiasco, Cobra II, and the Woodward trilogy? Those are all fine books, but not nearly as expansive as Prodigal Soldiers. Any thoughts on that?

laroe
07-04-2007, 03:55 AM
Licensed to Kill: Hired Guns in the War on Terror (http://www.amazon.com/Licensed-Kill-Hired-Guns-Terror/dp/1400097827/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-6512047-9621507?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1183520348&sr=8-1) -- by Robert Young Pelton
Brave New War: The Next Stage of Terrorism and the End of Globalization (http://www.amazon.com/Brave-New-War-Terrorism-Globalization/dp/0471780790/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-6512047-9621507?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1183520657&sr=8-1) -- by John Robb

Robb provides intriquing new perspectives informed by economics, technology and even biology -- at a 50,000-foot elevation. Pelton walks us through it on the ground.

laroe
07-04-2007, 04:12 AM
[...]
I highly recommend both "God's Terrorists" and "Fire in the Night."
[...]

Thanks for the reqs. I have to take seriously the recommendations of anyone who cites the Dropkick Murphys in his sig line.

SteveMetz
07-04-2007, 07:34 AM
Thanks for the response Steve. No I don't know him, but I will certainly try to make contact with him at some point. The book is absolutely fascinating. I bought his War and Destiny: looks good as well, but I'm kind of curious as to why it might not have gotten wider play. Is it because he writes to a more specialized audience? Not, perhaps, the same crowd as the masses who buy Fiasco, Cobra II, and the Woodward trilogy? Those are all fine books, but not nearly as expansive as Prodigal Soldiers. Any thoughts on that?


On War and Destiny, Jim Kitfield is not as well known as Mike Gordon and Tom Ricks, and the book probably had less popular appeal because it was not just on Iraq, but put the Bush national security policy in a wider perspective. The only problem is that it's like two books--one on the Bush strategy and the other just sort of a war story of his time in Iraq as an embed. So you shift from a grand strategy perspective to the view from inside a Bradley. He really should have written two books. If you want to contact him, I think I have his email address at the office and can get it to you next week. I don't know if his choice of publishers had any effect. Potomac did War and Destiny. They were considering my Iraq and the Evolution of American Strategy manuscript but I haven't heard from them, so I'm assuming they're not interested. I'm not pushing it hard at this point since it's unfinished.

On the other three, Ricks is awfully astute but I think his hatred for Rumsfeld was so burning hot that it tainted the book. He vacillated between serious analysis and attack. I'm quoted a couple of times in Fiasco although not by name. In fact, he lauds a briefing I prepared. I met Mike Gordon standing outside BIAP in the early May 2003. Cobra II is on the mark but, of course, it really ends before the insurgency took off. There also have been a few revelations about how the policy was made since it came out. Woodward I don't know what to think of. I've read all three but just can't decide whether to trust them. He relies so much on whoever will talk to him, so it is very much an Armitage perspective.

jlechelt
07-04-2007, 01:43 PM
Thanks Steve. I can't speak for Potomac, but your manuscript title points towards what I'm sure is a fascinating read. There really isn't enough stuff on the grander strategy perspectives. Perhaps in a year and a half it will be less "current events" and become "recent history."

I loved the Ricks book because it was the best up-to-date perspective that considered most of the major issues. He also gave voice, I think, to a lot of people who didn't have one before. However, I have heard that some of his quotes were taken out of context, or some other tidbits didn't match up with reality.

Woodward: I hear you on that one. Fun to read though. Besides, all of Washington knows how he operates. Talk to him, get good coverage. So shame on those who opt out. The President tried to take advantage of that for the first two, but decided not to for the third.

Any other decent Iraq books coming out, or does anyone know of any names out there who have projects in the pipelines?

Two books I'm looking forward to reading: Charlie Wilson's War and Locher's War on the Potomac (might be off on the title there). I have heard that both offer great perspectives on how Congress can influence war policy. A lost art I fear.

SteveMetz
07-04-2007, 02:05 PM
Thanks Steve. I can't speak for Potomac, but your manuscript title points towards what I'm sure is a fascinating read. There really isn't enough stuff on the grander strategy perspectives. Perhaps in a year and a half it will be less "current events" and become "recent history."

I loved the Ricks book because it was the best up-to-date perspective that considered most of the major issues. He also gave voice, I think, to a lot of people who didn't have one before. However, I have heard that some of his quotes were taken out of context, or some other tidbits didn't match up with reality.

Woodward: I hear you on that one. Fun to read though. Besides, all of Washington knows how he operates. Talk to him, get good coverage. So shame on those who opt out. The President tried to take advantage of that for the first two, but decided not to for the third.

Any other decent Iraq books coming out, or does anyone know of any names out there who have projects in the pipelines?

Two books I'm looking forward to reading: Charlie Wilson's War and Locher's War on the Potomac (might be off on the title there). I have heard that both offer great perspectives on how Congress can influence war policy. A lost art I fear.

I need to read Charlie Wilson's War since my friend Mike Vickers (Janine's boss) plays a major role. Mike tells me the movie version with Tom Hanks will be out around the end of the year.

I'm still in the middle of Ajami's The Foreigner's Gift and am swept away. Not only is he one of the best pure writers alive today, but he has amazing insights into both the Iraqi and the American psyches. I highly recommend it. I also found Chandrasekaran's Imperial Life in the Emerald City useful.

On a more pressing note, being a South Carolinian who also lived in the Kansas City area, I have a packer cut beef brisket and two pork shoulders which have been on a hickory fire since 3 AM. Dinner is at 6 this evening. Expecting about 25 people.

Jimbo
07-04-2007, 06:18 PM
I have to agree with steve on Fiasco. Ricks' lets some of his biases color what could have been a much better book. He has made some comparisons that are just not valid.

jlechelt
07-04-2007, 06:22 PM
I have to agree with steve on Fiasco. Ricks' lets some of his biases color what could have been a much better book. He has made some comparisons that are just not valid.Interesting point. Examples? Even with a few mistakes or biases, it seems he pretty much nails a lot of the problems that have been evident over there. No?

Jimbo
07-04-2007, 06:43 PM
Ricks' didn't really understand the "mosaic" that is the Iraqi insurgency. So in ignoring that, he makes faulty compairisons of techniques and procedures used by different American units. His comparison the 101st and 4th Infantry Divisions is one glaring examples. That comaprison is based on some assumptions that Ricks' either made or he lets the reader makes in what those two units were facing on the ground.

jlechelt
07-04-2007, 07:58 PM
Thanks Jimbo. Interesting.

jlechelt
07-05-2007, 04:28 AM
Interesting website for avid readers.

Goodreads is kind of like a myspace or facebook for books. Allows you to post what books you're currently reading, what books you have read, and you can rate and review the books.

Here's a link that will have you listed as someone who can see what I'm reading: http://www.goodreads.com/friend/i?i=LTM2MDY5NzI2ODc6MzA5%0A

Or, of course, you can go there and sign in without me being listed as a "friend."

Either way, probably a useful site for the readers of smallwarsjournal.com

SteveMetz
07-05-2007, 12:41 PM
Interesting point. Examples? Even with a few mistakes or biases, it seems he pretty much nails a lot of the problems that have been evident over there. No?

I don't think there are mistakes, per se, but he selects his evidence on the basis of how bad a light it casts on the administration. To give one example, he uses a few things my organization did (including some of my own) which warned of problems before the intervention and, because we are a government entity, draws the conclusion that the administration should have been aware of what it was getting into. While I'd like to believe that, I realize there was lots of other analysis which supported the administration's policy choices.

Another example is the famous Shinseki congressional testimony. Ricks, like many people, uses that to criticize the administration. As it turned out, Shinseki was right but those using this to attack the administration overlook the fact that Shinseki's number was a swag while CENTCOM and the Joint Staff had done detailed analysis that arrived at much smaller numbers. So while history has proven that Shinseki's swag was more accurate than CENTCOM and Joint Staff's analysis, the critics overlook the fact that in the context of the time, it made sense for the administration to accept the detailed force requirement analysis of CENTCOM and the Joint Staff rather than General Shinseki's swag.

jlechelt
07-05-2007, 12:58 PM
I don't think there are mistakes, per se, but he selects his evidence on the basis of how bad a light it casts on the administration. To give one example, he uses a few things my organization did (including some of my own) which warned of problems before the intervention and, because we are a government entity, draws the conclusion that the administration should have been aware of what it was getting into. While I'd like to believe that, I realize there was lots of other analysis which supported the administration's policy choices.

Another example is the famous Shinseki congressional testimony. Ricks, like many people, uses that to criticize the administration. As it turned out, Shinseki was right but those using this to attack the administration overlook the fact that Shinseki's number was a swag while CENTCOM and the Joint Staff had done detailed analysis that arrived at much smaller numbers. So while history has proven that Shinseki's swag was more accurate than CENTCOM and Joint Staff's analysis, the critics overlook the fact that in the context of the time, it made sense for the administration to accept the detailed force requirement analysis of CENTCOM and the Joint Staff rather than General Shinseki's swag.

To ask the simple/stupid question: what is "swag"?

Interesting. I certainly can't claim to know all that you had access to, but coming up with analyses to support the Administration's preferences is likely rarely difficult. The task of any administration should be to dig deeper than anything given to them. Hindsight is 20/20, I realize, but that is how administrations are judged. I guess I'm just pointing out the obvious.

Thanks though. Most enlightening.

SteveMetz
07-05-2007, 01:07 PM
A best guess based on expertise and experience rather than actual analysis. The Joint Staff, the services and the combatant commands have sophisticated force requirement models and methodologies which they used. Shinseki just came up with a figure based on his expertise and experience.

The question is: Why why did these processes generate force requirements that we now know were wrong? It all comes down to assumptions--the most fragile part of any strategy. To over simplify, administration officials forced CENTCOM to accept assumptions such as a benign environment once the regime was removed, acceptance by the Iraqis of the emigre leaders like Chalabi, international support, etc.

Having spent much of the last four years looking at Iraq decisionmaking, I break the culprits down into two categories: the actual architects of disaster, (Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Feith, and, of course, the President), and the passive contributors--those who could have stopped it but didn't (Powell, Rice, Meyers, and Franks).

jlechelt
07-05-2007, 01:58 PM
A best guess based on expertise and experience rather than actual analysis. The Joint Staff, the services and the combatant commands have sophisticated force requirement models and methodologies which they used. Shinseki just came up with a figure based on his expertise and experience.

The question is: Why why did these processes generate force requirements that we now know were wrong? It all comes down to assumptions--the most fragile part of any strategy. To over simplify, administration officials forced CENTCOM to accept assumptions such as a benign environment once the regime was removed, acceptance by the Iraqis of the emigre leaders like Chalabi, international support, etc.

Having spent much of the last four years looking at Iraq decisionmaking, I break the culprits down into two categories: the actual architects of disaster, (Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Feith, and, of course, the President), and the passive contributors--those who could have stopped it but didn't (Powell, Rice, Meyers, and Franks).
Well said. A great paper or book there.
To bring Ricks back into it, I think he was correct in stating that the threat from Iraq was presented with a worst case scenario, and what it would take to fix the problem was presented with a best case scenario. The fact that Shinseki could be wildly ON the mark with just an experienced guess, compared with all of the analysis coming from everyone else, is truly embarrassing.

Merv Benson
07-06-2007, 08:29 PM
I just posted my review (http://prairiepundit.blogspot.com/2007/07/anthropology-and-insurgents.html) of Insurgents, Terrorist and Militias by Richard H. Shultz, Jr. and Adrea J. Dew. It is a very good book that readers of this site will find worth while. It gets into the art of fighting against tribal societies using Somalia, Chechnya, Afghanistan and Iraq as examples. Check out the review for more details.

Granite_State
07-07-2007, 03:39 AM
I need to read Charlie Wilson's War since my friend Mike Vickers (Janine's boss) plays a major role. Mike tells me the movie version with Tom Hanks will be out around the end of the year.

I'm still in the middle of Ajami's The Foreigner's Gift and am swept away. Not only is he one of the best pure writers alive today, but he has amazing insights into both the Iraqi and the American psyches. I highly recommend it. I also found Chandrasekaran's Imperial Life in the Emerald City useful.


Loved Charlie Wilson's War, it's a fantastic story at the very least. The personalities in play are amazing.

I have to say, though, I'm really skeptical of Ajami based solely on one thing, this disgusting comparison between a convicted perjurer and our war dead:
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110010185

Maybe it's small-minded of me, but after seeing his name on this, I've found it awfully hard to take his analysis seriously.

jlechelt
07-07-2007, 05:08 AM
Loved Charlie Wilson's War, it's a fantastic story at the very least. The personalities in play are amazing.

I have to say, though, I'm really skeptical of Ajami based solely on one thing, this disgusting comparison between a convicted perjurer and our war dead:
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110010185

Maybe it's small-minded of me, but after seeing his name on this, I've found it awfully hard to take his analysis seriously.

I have heard great things about Charlie Wilson's War. Most importantly, a staff person from HASC said that it offers a great understanding of how Congress - and staff? - can have a major impact on war policy. I haven't read it yet, so I'm only passing along what I have heard, but that makes me want to read it all the more.

Libby: I agree - the comparisons of him to a true fighter in Iraq is sad. I haven't followed the case closely, but there is definitely too much partisanship in deciding what should happen to the little guy. How anyone can claim lying in a federal investigation is ok, well, that's beyond me. But 30 months might have been a bit stiff, considering all of the shame he has had to bear for his crime. Perhaps the President's action make sense, but heaven forbid he actually still pardons Libby. As has been ably pointed out since the lsentence was dropped by the President, was how he has not followed his own strict procedures for others. Everyone who wants a pardon or a sentence dropped probably has the same story to tell. Time will tell, but Libby sure isn't a brave soldier.

Still trucking along with Prodigal Soldiers. Absolutely fantastic. If only my six month old daughter would allow me more time to read! Quite selfish she is. But cute.

mike sullivan
07-20-2007, 03:12 PM
Jeffrey Record, Beating Goliath (Struggling to finish)

In the mail. . .
David Pryce-Jones, The Closed Circle: An Interpretation of the Arabs (On a work reading list)
Hamilton, Bathroom Remodeling for Dummies (Because my wife says she is tired of the Bathroom – the book explains the rest.)

SteveMetz
07-20-2007, 03:29 PM
[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][SIZE="4"]Jeffrey Record, Beating Goliath (Struggling to finish)

All you really need to read are the dustjacket blurbs. Art they are.

Ski
07-20-2007, 04:36 PM
When I read those blurbs, I thought to myself, "Man, they really did get a chimpanzee to write at Ft. Detrick!";)



All you really need to read are the dustjacket blurbs. Art they are.

Stu-6
07-20-2007, 04:50 PM
I just finished Malcolm W. Nance’s The Terrorist of Iraq which is excellent (he needs a better publisher though my copy had two chapter threes). Now I am reading that staring at goats book sort of comic relief.

SteveMetz
07-20-2007, 04:51 PM
When I read those blurbs, I thought to myself, "Man, they really did get a chimpanzee to write at Ft. Detrick!";)

I take great issue with that! A chimp would NEVER do. When I was asked to write a blurb for Record's book, I outsourced it sto a WOMBAT! I mean, EVERYONE knows that chimps split their infinitives.

Granite_State
08-16-2007, 01:24 PM
Thought I'd resurrect this, just finished Licensed to Kill: Hired Guns in the War on Terror. Despite the title, solid book, looks at contractors in Afghanistan, Iraq, and then closes with a bit on Executive Outcomes and the African mercenary scandals of the last decade or so. Accords pretty well with what I heard from a friend who worked as a security contractor in Iraq.

LawVol
08-16-2007, 04:46 PM
I'm going old school and reading Queen Victoria's Little Wars by Byron Farwell. If anyone has any suggestions for follow on books in this area, please let me know.

Tom Odom
08-16-2007, 05:08 PM
Farwells book on the British Army (http://www.amazon.com/Mr-Kiplings-Army-Byron-Farwell/dp/0393304442)is equally great and entertaining

wm
08-16-2007, 06:14 PM
Farwells book on the British Army (http://www.amazon.com/Mr-Kiplings-Army-Byron-Farwell/dp/0393304442)is equally great and entertaining

So are his Eminent Victorian Soldiers and The Great Boer War. You might also try Donald Featherstone's Khaki and Red for some additional insight into Queen Victoria's Wars of Empire.

Douglas Porch has a couple of books (Conquest of the Sahara and Conquest of Morroco) on the French colonial expoerience in North Africa if you want to expand beyond the British Imperial milieu.

jcustis
08-16-2007, 06:17 PM
Recent reading finished within the past two months or so:

Hot Zone by Richard Preston. Absolutely scary stuff about USARAMID folks out of Ft. Dietrick dealing with an Ebola outbreak in a primate clearinghouse in Reston, VA. I think it was the basis for the movie Outbreak.

Training and Leadership for the Fight by MSG (ret.) Paul Howe. The book has a focus on kinetic, snake-eater stuff and SWAT training techniques, but a great read nonetheless.

The Guts to Try: The untold story of the Iran hostage rescue mission by the on-scene desert commander by Col (ret.) James Kyle. Almost finished with this one, but it is a slow grind. Excellent so far in terms of providing insight into the incredible logistical hurdles tackled by the air component to support the planned Delta raid.

Van
08-16-2007, 07:30 PM
The Military Signal Corps Manual, MAJ J. Andrew White 1918, A History of Tactical Communications Techniques, David L. Woods, 1965 and the Liddell and Scott Greek-English Lexicon.

Some cutting edge computer science guys needed a liberal arts/history nerd for a project they are working on :D

For myself, I'm working through Baden-Powell's Aids to Scouting for N.-C.Os. & Men and My Adventures as a Spy. It's amazing what a military officer could do when he didn't have to worry about turning out a PowerPoint slide.

Thes last two might tie in with the 'pre WW I/1900 British Army' thing some other folks are following.

Culpeper
08-17-2007, 04:11 AM
Recent reading finished within the past two months or so:

Hot Zone by Richard Preston. Absolutely scary stuff about USARAMID folks out of Ft. Dietrick dealing with an Ebola outbreak in a primate clearinghouse in Reston, VA. I think it was the basis for the movie Outbreak.

Training and Leadership for the Fight by MSG (ret.) Paul Howe. The book has a focus on kinetic, snake-eater stuff and SWAT training techniques, but a great read nonetheless.

The Guts to Try: The untold story of the Iran hostage rescue mission by the on-scene desert commander by Col (ret.) James Kyle. Almost finished with this one, but it is a slow grind. Excellent so far in terms of providing insight into the incredible logistical hurdles tackled by the air component to support the planned Delta raid.

I read The Hot Zone (http://www.amazon.com/Hot-Zone-Terrifying-True-Story/dp/0385495226/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-6278433-2320903?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187323857&sr=1-1). I might suggest The Coming Plague (http://www.amazon.com/Coming-Plague-Emerging-Diseases-Balance/dp/0140250913/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-6278433-2320903?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187323716&sr=8-1) and Betrayal of Trust (http://www.amazon.com/Betrayal-Trust-Collapse-Global-Public/dp/0786884401/ref=pd_bbs_2/102-6278433-2320903?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187323716&sr=8-2).

jcustis
08-19-2007, 02:56 PM
I've long sought an academic-oriented work to bring me back to my roots as an International Relations major, and I recently pinged the candidates and newly minted lieutenants at MarineOCS.com for a recommendation.

I wanted something that was currently in use in academia, and more theoretical in nature. While it was good to see that some of the old stuff by Waltz was still in play, I selected John Mearscheimer's The Tragedy of Great Power Politics from a list offered by a poster who also posts here.

http://www.amazon.com/Tragedy-Great-Power-Politics/dp/039332396X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/103-3745267-9764625?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187534857&sr=8-2

I'm only a few pages into the second chapter, but Mearsheimer has already impressed me with his ability to pull in the competing principles of realist and liberalist theory, as well as describe the various strains within each theory that argue against each other, and how the major theorists make their point. For you older hands here, if your college freshman or sophmore has thoughts on being a Poli sci major and this isn't on their gear list yet, I recommend it.

Due to the many sections where Mearsheimer delves into periods of great power muscle-flexing (i.e. war), I think it would still make for a good book for consecutive rainy weekend afternoons, no matter whether you read primarily for pleasure or more direct reasons like myself.

davidbfpo
08-19-2007, 06:51 PM
Three books on the Indian Army and mindful of the Imperial era battleground of the North West Frontier re-appearing:

The Indian Army and the King's Enemies 1900-1947, by Charles Chenevix Trench (pub. Thames & Hudson 1988 in hardback)

The Frontier Scouts (the NW Fontier locally recruited units) by Charles Chenevix Trench (pub. Jonathan Cape 1985 in hardback)

A Matter of Honour: An account of the Indian Army, its officers and men, by Philip Mason (pub. Penguin Books 1974)

I've not checked Amazon for current availability and they maybe in a very good library.

davidbfpo

Rifleman
08-20-2007, 12:52 AM
Just checked out See No Evil about CIA agent Robert Baer. I haven't started it yet.

I just finished reading part of The Hunt For Bin Laden by Robin Moore. I quit about halfway through. I thought it started okay but I couldn't finish when I found out about all the controversy surrounding Jack Idema.

jonSlack
08-20-2007, 10:39 AM
I read Baer's See No Evil a few years ago and found it very interesting. The book served as the inspiration for the movie Syriana (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0365737/) and Baer served as an advisor on the film. If you have not seen it yet, it would not be a bad follow up for when you finish the book. However, I recommend reading the book first because the movie contains of some of the personal experiences that Baer covers in his book.

As for what I am reading: I have been and am continuing to take a break from nonfiction books. I just finished Eco's Foucault's Pendulum (http://www.amazon.com/Foucaults-Pendulum-Umberto-Eco/dp/015603297X/ref=sr_1_1/102-3001594-7616136?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187606078&sr=1-1) and I am reading John le Carre's The Russia House (http://www.amazon.com/Russia-House-John-Carre/dp/0340924330/ref=sr_1_1/102-3001594-7616136?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187606239&sr=1-1) now. Not sure where I am going to go next but I think it will end up being Charles Allen's Soldier Shahibs (http://www.amazon.com/Soldier-Sahibs-Charles-Allen/dp/0349114560/ref=sr_1_1/102-3001594-7616136?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187605733&sr=8-1).

goesh
08-20-2007, 11:36 AM
I'm in the al-Zawiyah website trying to add to my understanding of the Sufis~~ one sin of the foot: running away from the battlefield against enemies of Islam

Tom Odom
08-20-2007, 03:03 PM
I'm in the al-Zawiyah website trying to add to my understanding of the Sufis~~ one sin of the foot: running away from the battlefield against enemies of Islam

Be advised that one Sufi is not like all Sufis; there are numerous sects of Sufi thought, be it Sunni or Shia based. So when you speak of "the Sufis" that is so generic as to be near meaningless as a descriptor of Sufi thought.

Put 6 Sufis in a room and you will have at least 12 opinions....

Tom

selil
08-20-2007, 03:12 PM
Dartnell, Michael (2006) "Insurgency Online Web Activism and Global Conflict", University of Toronto Press, Toronto, 172 Pages, ISBN 0-8020-8553-9

It's an interesting book that looks at the information war and the propoganda outlets outside of the main stream media. So far I'm fairly disapointed as I thought it might be much more technical in nature and right off the author seems to have ignored the real world impacts of insurgency and gone right to the soft science side of things. I'll keep reading it's got some excellent bibliographic references I've already read so it will likely make a nice three or four hour read (104 pages of text the rest appendix and bibliography).

goesh
08-21-2007, 02:49 PM
I hear ya', Tom. I count anywhere from 16-20 major sects of Sufis and IMO the Qalandars and Naqshbandiya deserve extra attention and I think the "6 Sufis with 12 opinions" is exactly what makes the mystical aspects of Islam so elusive, at least to us outsiders.

Steve Blair
08-21-2007, 02:54 PM
"Rethinking Military History" is on the side table right now.

Stevely
08-23-2007, 09:28 PM
I read Baer's See No Evil I just finished Eco's Foucault's Pendulum (http://www.amazon.com/Foucaults-Pendulum-Umberto-Eco/dp/015603297X/ref=sr_1_1/102-3001594-7616136?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187606078&sr=1-1)

One of my favorite novels of all time. Well worth the read!

tequila
08-24-2007, 10:28 AM
"Rethinking Military History" is on the side table right now.

Superb book. Not sure if I agree with all his political sidebars and theories, but very thought-provoking.

Currently reading: Revolution Unending: Afghanistan 1979 to Present (http://www.amazon.com/Revolution-Unending-Gilles-Dorronsoro/dp/1850657033)by Gilles Dorronsoro.

Just finished: China Marches West: The Qing Conquest of Central Eurasia (http://www.amazon.com/China-Marches-West-Conquest-Central/dp/067401684X)by Peter C. Perdue.

A major theme of both Black's and Perdue's work is how history is constructed to form narratives, often for ideological purpose, and how desperately we can cling to those narratives if they are comfortable for us.

jcustis
08-24-2007, 11:07 AM
how history is constructed to form narratives, often for ideological purpose, and how desperately we can cling to those narratives if they are comfortable for us.

It's funny that many of our brethren from other services probably accuse the Marines of this all the time.:D

tequila
08-24-2007, 11:43 AM
Pshaw! A Marine never lies, cheats, or steals. Ever. I know this because my drill instructor told me. :D

Actually your comment made me check out the new USMC Professional Reading List (http://www.mca-marines.org/pdf/USMCReadingList.pdf). Some updated stuff here from the new Commandant. Notably The Ugly American for E1-E3, Counterinsurgency Warfare for O2, and Triumph Forsaken for O5.

Steve Blair
08-24-2007, 12:44 PM
Superb book. Not sure if I agree with all his political sidebars and theories, but very thought-provoking.

That's my take on it as well. He makes some very broad statements regarding some areas and stances, but there is a great deal of value mixed in with it.

Stu-6
08-24-2007, 04:51 PM
I recently finished George Tenet’s Centre of the Storm, which was actually better than I expected. It is, of course, at times self-serving “here’s why it’s not my fault” BS but not as much as I expected, certainly less so than Tommy Frank’s American Solider drivel.

Currently I am reading Rajiv Chandrasekaran’s Imperial Life in the Emerald City, which is good . . . if somewhat depressing.

MattC86
08-28-2007, 09:38 PM
I'm finishing Truman by McCullough. Simply one of the best biographies I've ever read about a fascinating man who really should be a role model for all, no matter what they seek to do.

On my desk, just checked out, are the Lester Grau companion works "The Bear Went Over the Mountain: Soviet Combat Tactics in Afghanistan" and "The Other Side of the Mountain: Mujahideen Combat Tactics." Nagl's "Learning to Eat Soup With a Knife" is in the pipeline.

To flip this around, here's a question: Anyone read or know of a good biography of George Marshall? The more I read of him in other sources, the more I realize both how great of a man he was and how little I actually know about him. Any recommendations would be appreciated.

Matt

davidbfpo
08-31-2007, 08:38 PM
Just finished second reading of 'Traffiking and Terrorist Networks, Government Bureaucracies, and Competitive Adaptation' by Michael Kenney. Published by The Pennsylvannia State University Press 2007 (ISBN 0=27102931-5). Best chapters are on how "narcs" and terrorists learn.

Shown on Amazon at $45 and one brief review. Not looked at the other hits.

davidbfpo

St. Christopher
09-07-2007, 01:43 PM
I just finished rereading Dr. J. Michael Waller's exceptional How to Fight the War of Ideas Like a Real War. Required reading for all you information warriors out there.

Funny aside: Over my holiday on the beach this past weekend, I read World War Z: An Oral History of the Zombie War by Max Brooks. It's a fictional account of the aftermath of a zombie invasion, and some of the IW/COIN stories in there are pretty good. It's funny to read and start thinking about how you'd apply conventional and unconventional tactics of war in the event of a zombie invasion. Trivia note-- the Marines are credited with inventing the single most useful tool in the whole zombie war: an E-tool with a steel battle axe on the end called the "Lobotomizer" or just the "Lobo."

If anyone's interested, I can post my counter-motivation bibliography that I use for work. Also have a poo-poo load of sources for MA thesis.

Du4

slapout9
09-07-2007, 02:29 PM
If anyone's interested, I can post my counter-motivation bibliography that I use for work. Also have a poo-poo load of sources for MA thesis.


I would like to see it posted.

SWCAdmin
09-07-2007, 02:41 PM
Please do.


If anyone's interested, I can post my counter-motivation bibliography that I use for work. Also have a poo-poo load of sources for MA thesis.


I would like to see it posted.

Stan
09-07-2007, 02:43 PM
If anyone's interested, I can post my counter-motivation bibliography that I use for work. Also have a poo-poo load of sources for MA thesis.


I would like to see it posted.

Hey Slapout,
I'm game, let her rip !
You can keep the MA stuff for the younger crowd...no time to race if all I do is read for an MA :D

Sarajevo071
09-07-2007, 02:55 PM
Not sure if anyone read book "Journey of the Jihadist (Inside Muslim Militancy)" by Fawaz A. Gerges, but seams to me it would be worth reading for some.


A civil war is being waged among jihadists for the soul of Islam. While all Islamist radicals may share a vision of a purified and unified ummah, or Muslim community, few agree over how to bring it about. Ultramilitant wings, such as Al Qaeda, dominate our thoughts and headlines, for they have exported their brand of terrorism to America's shores and are carrying it into the heart of Iraq. Yet they are in the minority. Most jihadists are struggling, often against great odds and under enormous pressures, to accommodate themselves to gradual social and political change in the Arab world.

As Middle Eastern scholar and media commentator Fawaz A. Gerges reveals in this unstinting, deeply personal, and brilliantly illuminating book, we need to know now more than ever who the jihadists are and to listen to what they are saying to each other and the world. Gerges went to Cairo, the birthplace of modern Islamist radical thought, and began a dialogue with one of the movement’s founders. Using these conversations as a starting point, Gerges spoke with hundreds of other jihadists throughout the Arab world, tracing the evolution of extremist thought from the 1970s to the present—from the civil war in Lebanon, which Gerges and his family endured, to the war in Iraq that is giving Al Qaeda a new lease on life.
...

http://journeyofthejihadist.com/

PhilR
09-07-2007, 03:17 PM
Just finished The Federalist Papers (Hamilton, Madison and Jay). Not always the most exceiting read, but refreshing to see the depth of dialogue on basic political issues. I read it to fulfill the usually disregarded portion of Sun Tzu's quip about knowing oneself. I found it very enlightening in describing some our (the West in general and the US specifically) assumptions on what is required for an operating republic.
I don't think we realize the disconnect when we take our western institutions and try to apply them where the societal chemistry doesn't match. Michael Mandelbaum has a decent article in the latest Foreign Affairs along this line ("Democracy Without America").

slapout9
09-07-2007, 03:19 PM
Please do.


Just so there is no confusion that quote is from St. Christopher!! he is the one with bibliography that I would like to see posted. I screwed the quote thingy button up. St. Chris has got the stuff not me.:wry:

Mondor
09-07-2007, 04:24 PM
Small Unit Action in Vietnam Summer 1966; I just finished the chapter covering Howard’s patrol.

The German Campaigns in the Balkans (1953 edition); Finished this last week. I always learn something new when I go over this.

Anabasis by Xenophon; Not in the original Greek!

Adam L
09-07-2007, 06:25 PM
Thought it might be interesting to compare (but, Tom Odom, the menu at Applebees doesn't count!).

Here's mine:

Currently

Fouad Ajami, The Foreigner's Gift: The Americans, the Arabs, and the Iraqis in Iraq

In the queue

Ali Allawi, The Occupation of Iraq
Peter Galbraith, The End of Iraq
George Tenet, At the Center of the Storm
Andrew Sullivan, The Conservative Soul
Rupert Smith, The Utility of Force: The Art of War in the Modern World

When you get to The Utility of Force make sure you are in a good state of mind. Its interesting but the writing is dry as toast. Also, a book that might complement Andrew Sullivan's or anything on politics you might read, The Conscience of a Conservative by Barry Goldwater. 45 years later its still important.

St. Christopher
09-07-2007, 06:50 PM
Just so there is no confusion that quote is from St. Christopher!! he is the one with bibliography that I would like to see posted. I screwed the quote thingy button up. St. Chris has got the stuff not me.:wry:

These selections are from my counter-motivation "vetted readings" file. I make everyone I do business with read these before we start executing. Most of these articles are Google-able and downloadable; some of the books you may have to purchase.

"Choosing Words Carefully: Language to Help Fight Islamic Terrorism (http://www.ndu.edu/csc/docs/Choosing%20Words%20Carefully--Language%20to%20Help%20Fight%20Islamic%20Terrorism %2024%20May%2006.pdf)," Dr. Douglas E. Streusand and LTC Harry D. Tunnell IV.

"Storytelling and Terrorism: Towards a Comprehensive 'Counter-Narrative Strategy (http://www.ccc.nps.navy.mil/si/2005/Mar/casebeerMar05.asp)," William D. Casebeer and James A. Russell

"Anti-Americanism and the Rise of Civic Diplomacy (http://www.fpif.org/fpiftxt/3795)," Nancy Snow

"Strategic Communication: A Mandate for the United States (http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/jfq_pubs/1839.pdf)," Jeffrey Jones

Exploring Religious Conflict (http://www.rand.org/pubs/conf_proceedings/CF211/), Gregory Treverton, et al. RAND

Terror’s Mask: Insurgency Within Islam (http://www.jhuapl.edu/POW/library/terrormask.htm), Michael Vlahos, JHU-APL

"THE ELONGATING TAIL OF BRAND COMMUNICATION (http://blaiq.typepad.com/occams_razor/files/the_elongating_tail_of_brand_communication_by_moha mmed_iqbal.pdf)," Mohammed Iqbal

Next-Generation Media: The Global Shift (http://www.aspeninstitute.org/atf/cf/%7BDEB6F227-659B-4EC8-8F84-8DF23CA704F5%7D/NEXTGENERATION.PDF); Aspen Institute; Richard P. Adler, Rapporteur

Terror in the Mind of God (http://www.amazon.com/Terror-Mind-God-Religious-Comparative/dp/0520232062), Mark Jurgensmeyer

"The Promise of Noopolitik (http://www.firstmonday.org/issues/issue12_8/ronfeldt/index.html)," David Ronfeldt and John Arquilla

I also regularly exhort the works of Dave Kilcullen, T.X. Hammes, Jim Guirard, and other luminaries of the COIN world.

I wrote a couple papers this year for Johns Hopkins on counter-narrative strategy, which I find tremendously fascinating in Vlahos's, NPS's, and Jurgensmeyer's works. Vlahos in particular has done great work in equating our current Long War to the poetic tradition of Islam. I just discovered the noopolitik piece above, and I find that paper absolutely compelling in its portrayal of the Information Age (in which one must nest any narrative strategy, counter or otherwise).

I find that some of the most interesting thought in Info Age warfare comes at the rapid pace of that generation-- a "burst culture" that spits out more blog entries and articles than truly analytical or procedural books. Hey, good idea for another thread-- what's in everybody's RSS reader and which ones do you use?

Du4

skiguy
09-07-2007, 11:34 PM
Ijtihad: Reinterpreting Islamic Principles for the Twenty-first Century (http://www.usip.org/pubs/specialreports/sr125.html)

Teaching about the Religious Other (http://www.usip.org/pubs/specialreports/sr143.html)
(this one's quite interesting)

Slowly reading the COIN manual

Mike in Hilo
09-10-2007, 11:30 PM
Found this recently, am in the midst of reading it. Something I should have read long ago. Col. William Le Gro's Vietnam: Cease Fire to Capitulation. All 235 pages are available on line in three segments:

http://libraryautomation.com/nymas/Vietnamfulltext1.html
http://libraryautomation.com/nymas/Vietnamfulltext2.html
http://libraryautomation.com/nymas/Vietnamfulltext3.html

Actually, the account covers the war from the 1972 aftermath of the Nguyen Hue Offensive to the final debacle. Le Gro ran intel at the Saigon DAO during the period. I had the privilege of knowing Col. Le Gro, albeit briefly, in 1974. He was a straight shooter who could be brutally honest.

The work's coverage, in terms of accounts of major engagements; shifting enemy and friendly order of battle; leadership, morale and supply issues; etc., is extremely detailed. Ample, expected examples are provided of the cancer of corruption, but so are others of genuine heroism in furtherance of a hopeless cause. The degree of detail should enable the reader to come to his/her own conclusions regarding the mixed picture that Vietnamization represented.

Cheers,
Mike.

jlechelt
09-28-2007, 03:04 PM
Read Charlie Wilson's War. WOW!

Currently reading Victory on the Potomac. A great case study of Congress's involvement in GNA - and military legislation in general. Didn't realize that Weinberger was so disliked. According to Locher, for good reason.

Question:
What are the best and most fair books on the Vietnam War? Books that cover the military and politics.

Steve Blair
09-28-2007, 03:10 PM
Krepenevich's "The Army and Vietnam" is a good study, although it does focus more on the Army as opposed to politics. Palmer's "The 25 Year War" is also a good one, though it's older.

If you're looking for the feel of "on the ground," anything by Kieth Nolan is a must-have. There are also a number of good battle/campaign histories out there, starting with Moore's "We Were Soldiers...".

Tom Odom
09-28-2007, 03:12 PM
I am reading Ambassador and Mrs Krueger's book (http://amazon.com/gp/product/0292714866/ref=s9_asin_title_1/105-4263532-8897249?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0S4CYJF2QXSNH47NRD8A&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=311499201&pf_rd_i=507846)on their aborted tour in Burundi. I especially like the chapter devoted to my evil ways in Rwanda. :eek:

Next is Abu Buckwheat's book on the insurgency in Iraq. (http://www.amazon.com/Terrorists-Iraq-Strategy-Tactics-Insurgency/dp/1419661108/ref=pd_bbs_1/105-4263532-8897249?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1190992296&sr=1-1) :D

Tom

SteveMetz
09-28-2007, 03:27 PM
I am reading Ambassador and Mrs Krueger's book (http://amazon.com/gp/product/0292714866/ref=s9_asin_title_1/105-4263532-8897249?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0S4CYJF2QXSNH47NRD8A&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=311499201&pf_rd_i=507846)on their aborted tour in Burundi. I especially like the chapter devoted to my evil ways in Rwanda. :eek:

Next is Abu Buckwheat's book on the insurgency in Iraq. (http://www.amazon.com/Terrorists-Iraq-Strategy-Tactics-Insurgency/dp/1419661108/ref=pd_bbs_1/105-4263532-8897249?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1190992296&sr=1-1) :D

Tom

I'll update my part of my own thread.

Recently finished:

Tenet's At the Center of the Storm (OK, because my expectations were low)
Robb's Brave New War (excellent)
Mary Habeck's Knowing the Enemy: Jihadist Ideology and the War on Terror (excellent except for the policy recommendations)
Robert Kaufman, In Defense of the Bush Doctrine (horrible)

Since I'm rushing to finish the manuscript for my Iraq and the Evolution of American Strategy (and I just completed a 16K word draft chapter on the formation of the Bush strategy up to the Iraq decision), I'm trying to limit my reading. I am playing with Evan Jenkins, That or Which, and Why: A Usage Guide for Thoughtful Writers and Editors and I'm dipping into Shakespeare to clear my mind. This morning I also worked through two excellent articles: Paul Pillar's "The Right Stuff" in the current issue of The National Interest, and David Betz's "Redesigning Land Forces for Wars Amongst the People" in Contemporary Security Policy.

jlechelt
09-28-2007, 03:28 PM
We Were Soldiers is indeed great.
How about Karnow's Vietnam, and Herring's America's Longest War? I read reviews on Amazon and they said that the Herring book was more about diplomacy.
Also, with regards to the argument over "The US could have won if it did this or that," or "There was no way to win the Vietnam War," any recommendations for the best books or articles on both sides?
Thanks.

SteveMetz
09-28-2007, 03:46 PM
We Were Soldiers is indeed great.
How about Karnow's Vietnam, and Herring's America's Longest War? I read reviews on Amazon and they said that the Herring book was more about diplomacy.
Also, with regards to the argument over "The US could have won if it did this or that," or "There was no way to win the Vietnam War," any recommendations for the best books or articles on both sides?
Thanks.

I usually recommend Karnow as a very readable and balanced introduction for people who have not delved into the Vietnam literature (students, for instance)

Probably the most discussed "we could have won it if we did this" are Andy Krepinevch, The Army and Vietnam and Harry Summers, On Strategy. They recommend, though, diametric opposites. I'd have to look through my stuff at the office for something that would fall into the "nothing would have mattered" school (which I myself am close to).

Ken White
09-28-2007, 05:19 PM
wanted to do before we went in and I do mean a realistic assessment thereof -- a nagging little item with which we continually seem to have a great deal of trouble... :mad:

Viet Nam presented some achievable goals; unfortunately, they wandered out of reach while we tried to fight a land war in Europe in the rice paddies of SE Asia for seven long years. There was never going to be a 'win' -- just as there was and will not be one in Iraq but an acceptable outcome was reachable (and is in Iraq).

Limited war is a dangerous and tricky proposition... :wry:

For Viet Nam, I'd also recommend Lewis Sorley's A Better War and Bruce Palmer's The 25 Year War: America's Military Role in Vietnam (the only book by a GO I ever recommend to anyone...)

Edited to add:
Oops. Just realized I inadvertently lied -- Slim's Defeat into Victory is another General's book worth reading. After racking my tiny brain, I'm pretty sure just those two...

Merv Benson
09-28-2007, 07:29 PM
I just finished John Keegan's Intelligence In War. It is excellent. He uses some historic examples beginning with Nelson's search for the French fleet on its way to Egypt. His discussion of code breaking was especially interesting. The Poles made a significant contribution to breaking Germany's Ultra code. One of the lessons he takes from the intelligence derived is that it is not always that helpful, because some of the dots are always missing. The German invasion of Crete is given as an example where being forewarned wasn't enough. He also looks at the US Magic intercepts and how they led to the victory at Midway, with the assistance of a lot luck. It is a very good read.

I am currently reading Bruce Catton's The Coming Fury which is the first volume in his Civil War Trilogy. It is outstanding. I have been meaning to read his books on the Civil War for about 40 years and am glad I finally got around to it.

For those looking for Vietnam War books, Mark Moyar's Triumph Forsaken should be your top choice. He has access to sources out of North Vietnam that were not available when most of the books were written in the 1970s. If you are interested in counterinsurgency warfare, you will enjoy this book.

Another Vietnam book worth reading is Admiral U.S.G. Sharp's Strategy for Defeat. It is mainly about the air war.

selil
09-28-2007, 08:07 PM
Funny aside: Over my holiday on the beach this past weekend, I read World War Z: An Oral History of the Zombie War by Max Brooks. It's a fictional account of the aftermath of a zombie invasion, and some of the IW/COIN stories in there are pretty good. It's funny to read and start thinking about how you'd apply conventional and unconventional tactics of war in the event of a zombie invasion.

OK, I went and read "World War Z" just because I thought it would be fun. What I found was an excellent analysis of pandemic. Zombie's are an allegory to pandemic (walking wounded, unable to care for themselves, requiring uninfected to feed them), etc.. So what is show from patient zero all the way through the end of the book is a series of events where containment is broken and contagion spreads. The ideas that zombies don't die and carry the contagion (unless you whack em in the head) shows a lot of the medical, social, welfare problems in the brutality of the solutions needed.

The examples of the soviets (purge) when dealing with the undead may seem ludicrous and fanciful but is based on what happened in Stalinist times when Army units refused to fight. Some times the issues are pretty hard to talk about in the real world but "World War Z" discusses them no-holds barred. It was a great book that you can't take to seriously but can read in a day that is filled with lots of "huh?" moments. I suggested it to a DHS/CDC specialist and I can't wait to hear what she says.

I read part of the book to my wife and we've decided we need to write an academic paper on what bad sci-fi stories can tell you about homeland security.

Culpeper
09-29-2007, 04:23 AM
The Americans at Normandy: The Summer of 1944--The American War from the Normandy Beaches to Falaise (http://www.amazon.com/Americans-Normandy-1944-American-Beaches/dp/076531200X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-2795688-4839038?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1191039711&sr=1-1)

SWCAdmin
09-29-2007, 01:24 PM
I haven't read something stupid in a while. (Note I said read, not said).

Just finished Florence of Arabia (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0812972260?ie=UTF8&tag=smallwarsjour-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=0812972260)by Christopher Buckley for purely recreational reading. He has a flair for the absurd that ought to resonate with those who have savored the AO. A little slow in the beginning during the shaping ops, but after it set up the situation and characters, it just had me in stitches.

One passage that I think resonates a little too much in the non-fiction world:

On Capitol Hill, the cries of "Who lost Matar?" grew louder and louder. Senators pounded their podia, demanding answers. The president declared that he, too, wanted answers. The CIA said that although it would have no official comment, it, too, perhaps even more than the president and senators, wanted answers. The secretary of state said that there might in fact be no answers, but if there were, he certainly would be interested in hearing them. The secretary general of the United Nations said that he was reasonably certain answers existed, but first the right questions must be asked, and then they would have to be translated, and this would take time.

There were those who urged caution, and those who urged that now was a time not for caution but for boldness. Then there were those who urged a middle course of cautious boldness. There were extremists on both sides: the neo-isolationists, whose banner declared, "Just sell us the damned oil," and the neo-interventionists, who said "Together, we can make a better world, but we'll probably have to kill a lot of you in the process."

Privately, the American president was said to be torn -- between dispatching an aircraft carrier (perhaps the most dramatic gesture available to a president, short of actually landing on one); and dispatching a nuclear submarine. A distinguished naval historian pointed out on public television that submarines are every bit as lethal as aircraft carriers, but, being underwater, are harder to see and therefore "less visually impactful." It was, as another historian said on public television, "a time of great ambiguity." And yet even about that remark, reasonable people differed.

Granite_State
09-30-2007, 07:31 AM
About a quarter of the way through Gordon Corrigan's Mud, Blood and Poppycock. I think he overstates his case, but generally does a good job overturning myths about WWI.

Van
09-30-2007, 03:39 PM
I just finished John Keegan's Intelligence In War. It is excellent.

You might like The Craft of Intelligence (http://www.amazon.com/Craft-Intelligence-Legendary-Fundamentals-Gathering/dp/1592282970/ref=sr_oe_1_2/105-1516514-3865206?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1191166547&sr=1-1) by Allen Dulles. An absolutely first-rate discussion of intelligence by one of the U.S. intel community's "Grand Old Men". Hmmm... now that I'm thinking about it, I need to put into the cue for a re-read.

Kreker
10-01-2007, 02:25 PM
We Were Soldiers is indeed great.
How about Karnow's Vietnam, and Herring's America's Longest War? I read reviews on Amazon and they said that the Herring book was more about diplomacy.
Also, with regards to the argument over "The US could have won if it did this or that," or "There was no way to win the Vietnam War," any recommendations for the best books or articles on both sides?
Thanks.

HR McMaster's, Dereliction of Duty.
Best.

ericmwalters
10-01-2007, 04:01 PM
Originally Posted by jlechelt
Also, with regards to the argument over "The US could have won if it did this or that," or "There was no way to win the Vietnam War," any recommendations for the best books or articles on both sides?
Thanks.

Strongly, strongly recommend Eric Bergerud's THE DYNAMICS OF DEFEAT: THE VIETNAM WAR IN HAU NGHIA PROVINCE (Boulder, CO: Westview Press, 1991). This works takes on both Summers' and Krepinevich's arguments, arguing that it didn't matter what the U.S. did, without a strong government in Saigon that enjoyed the support of the indigenous population, it was merely a matter of time. The Communists understood this, we apparently refused to, even though many within the most senior levels of government--to include McNamara and Westmoreland--articulated such appraisals as early as 1965. In this vein, Lewis Sorley's A BETTER WAR: THE UNEXAMINED VICTORIES AND FINAL TRAGEDY OF AMERICA'S LAST YEARS IN VIETNAM and Mark Woodruff's UNHERALDED VICTORY: THE DEFEAT OF THE VIET CONG AND THE NORTH VIETNAMESE ARMY: 1961-1973 don't quite answer Bergerud's arguments, at least to me.

McMaster's DERELICTION OF DUTY is excellent, certainly. It argues the war was mounted primarily out of political expediency...and is a fairly depressing yet fascinating read. But it doesn't provide strategy arguments regarding the central question asked in the quote above.

For a contrary view, check out Mark Moyar's TRIUMPH FORSAKEN which argues we should have left the Diem brothers in power which provides the most articulate response to Bergerud. Also see Michael Lind's THE NECESSARY WAR: A REINTERPRETATION OF AMERICA'S MOST DISASTROUS MILITARY CONFLICT which argues we had to fight the war no matter how it came out. Both these works are very controversial.

As with most controversies, there is a lot of depth (and reading) needed to be well-grounded in the arguments and differing assumptions/interpretations of the facts. We're a very long way from any sort of definitive treatment of the arguments for and against the war and strategic options....

SteveMetz
10-04-2007, 03:16 PM
I'll update my part of my own thread.

Recently finished:

Tenet's At the Center of the Storm (OK, because my expectations were low)
Robb's Brave New War (excellent)
Mary Habeck's Knowing the Enemy: Jihadist Ideology and the War on Terror (excellent except for the policy recommendations)
Robert Kaufman, In Defense of the Bush Doctrine (horrible)

Since I'm rushing to finish the manuscript for my Iraq and the Evolution of American Strategy (and I just completed a 16K word draft chapter on the formation of the Bush strategy up to the Iraq decision), I'm trying to limit my reading. I am playing with Evan Jenkins, That or Which, and Why: A Usage Guide for Thoughtful Writers and Editors and I'm dipping into Shakespeare to clear my mind. This morning I also worked through two excellent articles: Paul Pillar's "The Right Stuff" in the current issue of The National Interest, and David Betz's "Redesigning Land Forces for Wars Amongst the People" in Contemporary Security Policy.

'nother update.

Now reading

John Keegan, The Iraq War
Niall Ferguson, War of the World

In the queue

Rupert Smith, The Utility of Force
Martin van Creveld, The Changing Face of War

Started, but current on hold

Colin Gray, Another Bloody Century
Ralph Peters, Wars of Blood and Faith

CR6
10-12-2007, 04:38 PM
To flip this around, here's a question: Anyone read or know of a good biography of George Marshall?
Matt

Pogue's 4 volume biography on Marshall is awesome. It's available in paperback from the George C. Marshall foundation, Lexington, VA.

http://www.marshallfoundation.org/pdfs/Musum_gift_shop.pdf

Ed Cray's General of the Army: George C. Marshall, Soldier and Statesman is a good one volume bio, but not on Pogue's level.

Stoler's George C. Marshall Soldier-Statesman of the American Century
is a short read, but decent intro to the man.

Wildcat
10-15-2007, 02:14 PM
In the queue:

Robert D. Kaplan, Hog Pilots, Blue Water Grunts: The American Military in the Air, at Sea, and on the Ground.

John Robb, Brave New War: The Next Stage of Terrorism and the End of Globalization.

John J. Tierney, Jr., Chasing Ghosts: Unconventional Warfare in American History.

And on the fiction side, a book I'm very much looking forward to reading, Phillip Jennings' Nam-A-Rama.

tequila
10-15-2007, 02:43 PM
Abu Buckwheat / Malcolm Nance's The Terrorists of Iraq: Inside the Strategy and Tactics of the Iraqi Insurgency (http://www.amazon.com/Terrorists-Iraq-Strategy-Tactics-Insurgency/dp/1419661108/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-9934271-9381738?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1192458208&sr=8-1)- Get this book. It's everything that SWJ'ers say it is.

Laurent Dubois' Avengers of the New World: The Story of the Haitian Revolution (http://www.amazon.com/Avengers-New-World-Haitian-Revolution/dp/0674018265/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-9934271-9381738?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1192458288&sr=8-1) - About halfway through. The social background of the slave system in French St. Domingue, the wealthiest single colony in the New World, is detailed quite well. We are still, unfortunately, denied a clear view of the slave insurgency at its birth and thus unable to discern exactly how it was organized and led, except that it was executed with exceptional competence. A very fine and readable history.

Caroline Finkel's Osman's Dream: The History of the Ottoman Empire (http://www.amazon.com/Osmans-Dream-History-Ottoman-Empire/dp/0465023967/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-9934271-9381738?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1192458573&sr=8-1)- About halfway on this one as well. Pretty good "sultan's history" of the empire - a good framework for building on more. Wish there was some more on the military and bureaucratic institutions of the empire, but Finkel has done very fine work considering the size of her subject. Random telling detail: Post-16th century, the term "Turk" in Ottoman writings was typically used disparagingly.

Just started Dr. Jonathan Shay's Achilles in Vietnam: Combat Trauma and the Undoing of Character (http://www.amazon.com/Achilles-Vietnam-Combat-Undoing-Character/dp/0684813211/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-9934271-9381738?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1192458972&sr=1-1).

Finished Gilles Dorronsoro's Revolution Unending: Afghanistan 1979 to present (http://www.amazon.com/Revolution-Unending-Afghanistan-Comparative-International/dp/0231136269). Superb social and political history of late modern Afghanistan. Demolishes many a preconception if all you've read is romantic stuff written by British officers pre-1900 (most of my own reading about Afghanistan falls in this area, sadly). Surprisingly one of my Afghan expat friends didn't know half the stuff in here despite the fact that her grandfather is mentioned in the book.

Steve Blair
10-15-2007, 03:25 PM
Shay's book is good. Been meaning to pick up his second one for some time.

Wildcat
10-15-2007, 03:31 PM
Almost forgot: just pre-ordered my copy of Robert B. Strassler's followup to The Landmark Thucydides, which gets released on November 9: The Landmark Herodotus. Very, very excited about this one. I can't wait to see it sitting on the shelf next to Thucydides.

MattC86
10-15-2007, 03:37 PM
Pogue's 4 volume biography on Marshall is awesome. It's available in paperback from the George C. Marshall foundation, Lexington, VA.

http://www.marshallfoundation.org/pdfs/Musum_gift_shop.pdf

Ed Cray's General of the Army: George C. Marshall, Soldier and Statesman is a good one volume bio, but not on Pogue's level.

Stoler's George C. Marshall Soldier-Statesman of the American Century
is a short read, but decent intro to the man.


Thanks - I actually just finished Cray's book yesterday. It was a pretty good one volume, but it had so many of those annoying little factual errors as to make it a bit trying. None of them were major issues, but they detract from the overall credibility of the work. As one of my professors once said, "I opened up a major biography of Jefferson Davis. The first sentence read, 'Jefferson C. Davis was the product of. . . .etc, etc.' and Jefferson C. Davis was a Union officer who murdered a fellow general. Jefferson F. Davis was president of the Confederacy. How can you trust a guy who can't get his subject's name right?" And the Cray George C. Marshall biography was the same way, though maybe not quite as bad. John Marshall is referred to as the first chief justice of the Supreme Court on the first page - he was the fourth. Ridgway is referred to as a Major General during his stint as CINC-Far East - he was a full general. Just annoying stuff like that which detracted from an otherwise readable and enjoyable biography.

I did see all four volumes of Pogue's massive work in the Cornell library, and it was enough to intimidate me thoroughly.

Interested in seeing how "Chasing Ghosts" is; I saw it at the library and might pick it up on my next run. I'm finally reading Galula's Counterinsurgency Warfare: Theory and Practice, with Shultz's Insurgents, Terrorists, and Militias also competing for time with my textbooks. . .

Matt

Steve Blair
10-15-2007, 03:45 PM
"Chasing Ghosts" is, IMO, not very good at all. I've got some thoughts on it here (http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/showthread.php?t=2250). Short version: he relies on dated sources, makes some assorted historical errors, and generally seems more interested in making a point (something he denies enough times that I tend to doubt it...."methinks he doth protest too much") than he is dealing with history. Of course, YMMV, as it almost always does with books....:)

MattC86
10-15-2007, 03:48 PM
"Chasing Ghosts" is, IMO, not very good at all. I've got some thoughts on it here (http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/showthread.php?t=2250). Short version: he relies on dated sources, makes some assorted historical errors, and generally seems more interested in making a point (something he denies enough times that I tend to doubt it...."methinks he doth protest too much") than he is dealing with history. Of course, YMMV, as it almost always does with books....:)

What is the Asprey work you refer to on that page? Is there any comparable work on the history of American irregular warfare experience?

EDIT: nevermind, read the whole thread. . . found the book.

Matt

Steve Blair
10-15-2007, 03:53 PM
From the Small Wars Journal Reading List:
War in the Shadows - Robert Asprey. "Ranging from Alexander the Great's battles with Asiatic Scythians, through the Russian Revolution, and on up to the turmoil in the Middle East and the battle in Northern Ireland, War in the Shadows is a book of monumental sweep and singular perspective. It also contains a comprehensive and hard-hitting strategic evaluation of the Vietnam War - one of the most significant analyses of the war that won't go away. War in the Shadows tells the story of the countries currently torn by armed insurgencies and clarifies the causes of each conflict. It provides the broad viewpoint necessary for understanding them in the historical terms of guerilla warfare. With the collapse of the Soviet Union, the end of the Cold War, and a highly unstable new world order, this brand of rebellion has never been more powerful and potentially disruptive."

You can also order it off that page here (http://smallwarsjournal.com/reading-list/) (which gives the site some kickback from Amazon...:)).

As far as the American experience, I'm not aware of a single distilled volume (and I'd be suspicious of one at this point). Our experience tends to be isolated in specific periods or wars (which is why I was so disappointed with "Chasing Ghosts"...he had a chance and really blew it). It's possible to put together a decent overview with a short reading list (say 5 volumes or so), though.

Wildcat
10-15-2007, 04:02 PM
"Chasing Ghosts" is, IMO, not very good at all. I've got some thoughts on it here (http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/showthread.php?t=2250). Short version: he relies on dated sources, makes some assorted historical errors, and generally seems more interested in making a point (something he denies enough times that I tend to doubt it...."methinks he doth protest too much") than he is dealing with history. Of course, YMMV, as it almost always does with books....:)

Interesting... I'll probably still pick it up, though it sounds to me like it will be a lot like Max Boot's The Savage Wars of Peace, perhaps. Any thoughts on a comparison of the two?


I'm finally reading Galula's Counterinsurgency Warfare: Theory and Practice, with Shultz's Insurgents, Terrorists, and Militias also competing for time with my textbooks. . .

Ahh, Galula... right up there with Roger Trinquier as a classic text on COIN. I've been meaning to pick up War in the Shadows, too.

Steve Blair
10-15-2007, 04:05 PM
Boot at least uses current sources. "Chasing Ghosts" does not. I think his most "modern" source is Robert Utley's work on the Frontier Army. Just about everything else he cites was written before 1970, and one whole section is based on his own PhD work (which is dated as well). He doesn't use any recent Civil War scholarship on the border conflicts between Kansas and Missouri, and ignores Linn's work on the Philippines. How you can write meaningfully on the Philippines without consulting Linn is beyond me.

goesh
10-15-2007, 04:53 PM
Whitehead - Religion in the Making

"Life is an offensive, directed against the repetitious mechanism of the Universe" ~ A.N.W.

Steve Blair
10-15-2007, 05:51 PM
Oh, yeah...the point of the thread...:o

Hampton Sides "Blood and Thunder"

Jedburgh
10-15-2007, 06:21 PM
....As far as the American experience, I'm not aware of a single distilled volume (and I'd be suspicious of one at this point). Our experience tends to be isolated in specific periods or wars....
Perhaps not exactly falling into the type of book under discussion, but this two-volume set is written from the point of view of evolving doctrine - of course it does that by looking closely at the events that influenced that doctrine....

U.S. Army Counterinsurgency and Contingency Operations Doctrine, 1860-1941 (http://bookstore.gpo.gov/actions/GetPublication?stocknumber=008-029-00337-6)

U.S. Army Counterinsurgency and Contingency Operations Doctrine, 1942-1976 (http://bookstore.gpo.gov/actions/GetPublication?stocknumber=008-029-00429-1)

Steve Blair
10-15-2007, 06:24 PM
True enough, Jed. I'd actually forgotten about those...:o

MattC86
10-27-2007, 07:55 PM
Just finished Anthony James Joes' Urban Guerrilla Warfare. Interesting book, but he seemed to say, essentially, that urban guerillas can cause a lot of damage and headaches, but in the end are doomed to fail, as they violate too many of Mao's cherished tenets on insurgency. He even claimed, in the end, the Chechens were defeated in Grozny, because the Russians took the city.

I felt he focused too much on who won the battle instead of who won the "war" - the political dimension and context, so critical in insurgency/COIN ops, was seemingly entirely omitted. Interesting but flawed read. Short, though.

Just started Michael C. Fowler's "Amateur Soldiers, Global Wars." Has anyone read this? If so, what do you think of his arguments? In essence, he takes Hammes' 4GW concept to the extreme - really to a 5GW - in challenging the traditional concepts of political power, armed forces, and victory. It's an interesting and provocative read, so far, but is so nontraditional in its concepts and arguments that I'd be very interested in what any other SWC members have to say about it.

Also, if could be so bold, can I suggest (if only for my own benefit) that posters write a quick blurb about the books they read in addition to identifying it, so that we can get an idea of whether it is worth tracking down or not?

Matt

tequila
10-27-2007, 10:48 PM
MattC86 - Is he referring to the First Chechen War?

He should remember that in 1996 the Chechens retook the city from the Russians in one of the most amazing examples of an insurgent force defeating a modern military that I know of. Some 3,000 Chechens infiltrated Grozny, immobilized a garrison of 11,000 or so Russians, and destroyed Russian attempts to relieve the city. The defeat brought about the negotiated settlement and ultimate Chechen victory. Certainly an outstanding example of the guerrillas' ability to "swim" in the "sea" of the population of Grozny.

Of course, the Second Chechen War showed what happens when critical political splits occur in the insurgency itself.

SteveMetz
10-28-2007, 10:41 AM
Just finished Anthony James Joes' Urban Guerrilla Warfare. Interesting book, but he seemed to say, essentially, that urban guerillas can cause a lot of damage and headaches, but in the end are doomed to fail, as they violate too many of Mao's cherished tenets on insurgency. He even claimed, in the end, the Chechens were defeated in Grozny, because the Russians took the city.

I felt he focused too much on who won the battle instead of who won the "war" - the political dimension and context, so critical in insurgency/COIN ops, was seemingly entirely omitted. Interesting but flawed read. Short, though.

Just started Michael C. Fowler's "Amateur Soldiers, Global Wars." Has anyone read this? If so, what do you think of his arguments? In essence, he takes Hammes' 4GW concept to the extreme - really to a 5GW - in challenging the traditional concepts of political power, armed forces, and victory. It's an interesting and provocative read, so far, but is so nontraditional in its concepts and arguments that I'd be very interested in what any other SWC members have to say about it.

Also, if could be so bold, can I suggest (if only for my own benefit) that posters write a quick blurb about the books they read in addition to identifying it, so that we can get an idea of whether it is worth tracking down or not?

Matt

We need to get Tony on here if he's not already. I'm going to email him.

SWJED
10-28-2007, 11:51 AM
Abu Muqawama's counterinsurgency reading list to include bare bones essentials, intermediate reading (colonial and modern), advanced reading, political Islam and Islamist violence, fiction and films can be found here (http://abumuqawama.blogspot.com/2007/10/great-counterinsurgency-reading-list.html). Recommended additions to the list by site visitors can be found in comments.

One that I would add is The Village (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0743457579/smallwarsjour-20/103-5461000-6295861?) by Bing West.

MattC86
10-29-2007, 05:46 AM
We need to get Tony on here if he's not already. I'm going to email him.

So he can shred my probably misinformed and half-as*ed review of his book? Uh-oh.

Thanks for the link, SWJED.

Matt

MattC86
10-29-2007, 05:49 AM
MattC86 - Is he referring to the First Chechen War?

He should remember that in 1996 the Chechens retook the city from the Russians in one of the most amazing examples of an insurgent force defeating a modern military that I know of. Some 3,000 Chechens infiltrated Grozny, immobilized a garrison of 11,000 or so Russians, and destroyed Russian attempts to relieve the city. The defeat brought about the negotiated settlement and ultimate Chechen victory. Certainly an outstanding example of the guerrillas' ability to "swim" in the "sea" of the population of Grozny.

Of course, the Second Chechen War showed what happens when critical political splits occur in the insurgency itself.

I'm still not up on my history with regard to the Chechen Wars. Joes was referring to the first war and talked only briefly about the second. He did describe the Chechen retaking of Grozny, but still categorized the Chechen urban insurgency as a failure, along with his other case studies. I think he thought of the battles in Grozny as less of a true urban insurgency and more of a more-or-less conventional, Hue-like urban fighting.

Matt

SteveMetz
10-29-2007, 09:18 AM
So he can shred my probably misinformed and half-as*ed review of his book? Uh-oh.

Thanks for the link, SWJED.

Matt

LOL. He's pretty thick skinned. Anyone who writes has to be.

Alex Alderson
10-29-2007, 09:06 PM
From my comfortable position in Wiltshire, Abu Muqawama's list hits the right notes except one. Any student of the classics, and I thought that Abu Muqawama, from my dealings with him was one, one with a refreshing radicalism, would put Bunch of Five ahead of Gangs and Countergangs. If anyone wants the distilled truth of the undispute British master, Bunch of Five has to be near anyone's bedside table - to pick up on the back cover of the Chicago Press edition of 3-24.

tequila
10-30-2007, 02:09 AM
I've always been a bit suspicious of T. E. Lawrence, especially after reading David Fromkin's take on the man (http://newcriterion.com:81/archive/10/sept91/fromkin.htm).

For similar readings from the insurgent's vantage point, I'd recommend Milovan Djilas' WARTIME (http://www.amazon.com/Wartime-Milovan-Djilas/dp/0156947129).

Mao's On Protracted War (http://www.marx2mao.com/Mao/PW38.html#s1)and On Guerrilla Warfare (http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/works/1937/guerrilla-warfare/) are fine distillations of Maoist guerrilla theory.

Paul McLeary
10-30-2007, 02:54 PM
I just finished Young Stalin by Simon Sebag Montefiore, and there's a lot more to young Koba's early terrorist/criminal enterprises than we had previously thought. It's a great look into how terrorism relies on simple robberies, heists and shakedowns to finance itself. He doesn't draw any larger lessons from this, but it's very nicely done.

skiguy
10-30-2007, 07:49 PM
I've always been a bit suspicious of T. E. Lawrence, especially after reading David Fromkin's take on the man (http://newcriterion.com:81/archive/10/sept91/fromkin.htm).



Interesting link, tequila. I find the man very intriguing. Just watched 'Lawrence of Arabia' for the first time. Great movie. Started reading 'Revolt in the Desert', but with school and all it will be a while before I finish it.

SabreXray
10-31-2007, 10:22 AM
The Battered Bastards of Bastogne by George Koskimaki


Book Description
The Battered Bastards of Bastogne is the product of contributions by 530 soldiers who were on the ground or in the air over Bastogne. They lived and made this history and much of it is told in their own words.

The material contributed by these men of the 101st Airborne Division, the Armor, Tank Destroyer, Army Air Force , and others is tailored meticulously by the author and placed on the historical framework known to most students of the Battle of the Bulge.

Pieces of a nearly 60 year old jigsaw puzzle come together in this book, when memoires related by one soldier fit with those of another unit or group pursuing the battle from another nearby piece of terrain.

George Koskimaki is a noted historian of the 101st Airborne Division. His other books include D Day With The Screaming Eagles and Hell's Highway. He lives in Northville, MI.
Talk about soldiering. Modern warriors are soft compared to these guys.

SabreXray
11-02-2007, 10:08 AM
Finished the BBB.

Now reading FM 3-24.

JP

Mktennis
11-02-2007, 12:14 PM
I am currently reading The Guns of August. I'm really enjoying it.

tequila
11-02-2007, 12:32 PM
I am currently reading The Guns of August. I'm really enjoying it.

One quibble I've had with that book, which I also enjoyed, is that it is somehow sold as a great treatise on how the Great Powers blundered into the First World War, when I found that its treatment of how the war came about was quite short and incomplete. Much better was its treatment of the initial battles and the depiction of the popular cultures in France and Belgium that led up to the war, and Tuchman's fine writing style.

goesh
11-02-2007, 02:04 PM
Vedic Ecology/Practical Wisdom for Surviving the 21st Century - I'm planning a 10+ character post on Karma Yoga and shock n' awe warfare

SteveMetz
11-02-2007, 02:10 PM
Vedic Ecology/Practical Wisdom for Surviving the 21st Century - I'm planning a 10+ character post on Karma Yoga and shock n' awe warfare

Is that like Zen and the Art of Waterboarding?

goesh
11-02-2007, 04:23 PM
The Tao and Sensory Deprivation Tanks: the Subtle Nuance of Pax Americana - Mukasey will want to read it once I've finished the Karma Yoga monograph

Waterman
11-11-2007, 03:01 PM
Christopher Hitchens's Blood, Class and Empire and God Isn't Great: How Religion Poisons Everything; Matt Simmons's Twilight in the Desert; Michael T. Klare's Blood and Oil; Scahill's Blackwater.

Waterman
11-11-2007, 03:03 PM
Tuchmann was a hottie, too.

patmc
11-11-2007, 04:26 PM
Finishing "American Orientalism" by Douglas Little. It was an assigned reading from a course on "Americans, Israelis, and Arabs" back in school. We only read the chapters on the peace process. I wish I had read the whole thing back then, it gives a pretty good summary of all the major US policies and interests in the Middle East since 1945.

Xenophon
11-11-2007, 09:08 PM
I'm reading Britain and the Arabs by John Bagot Glubb since I can't find his Story of the Arab Legion

CR6
11-12-2007, 02:30 PM
I can't find his Story of the Arab Legion

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/used/listingResults.asp?z=y&stage=csListingResults&WID=2134093

You can get it for between $12 and $20 used through B&N on-line.

Xenophon
11-12-2007, 03:29 PM
Thanks! Just don't tell Amazon I'm cheating on her.

Rob Thornton
11-12-2007, 04:06 PM
Just finished Grant's memoirs - a worthy and relevant read which shows the more things change the more they stay the same, as well as providing 1st person context to events that defined us a nation

Currently reading COBRA II part of the ILE course, but well worth the read because it does a good job of linking the strategic, operational and tactical, discusses the campaign which has been overshadowed by the post Invasion War - but still has some incredibly important lessons available, and because it speaks to the courage and determination of our soldiers and marines to overcome fog & friction and make good use of chance.

Also reading (because I've wanted to for awhile) Field Marshal Viscount Slim's memoirs - Defeat into Victory - another memoir along the lines of Grant - which so far has plenty of good things available to those of our profession willing to listen.

Best, Rob

SteveMetz
11-12-2007, 04:11 PM
Just finished Grant's memoirs - a worthy and relevant read which shows the more things change the more they stay the same, as well as providing 1st person context to events that defined us a nation

Currently reading COBRA II part of the ILE course, but well worth the read because it does a good job of linking the strategic, operational and tactical, discusses the campaign which has been overshadowed by the post Invasion War - but still has some incredibly important lessons available, and because it speaks to the courage and determination of our soldiers and marines to overcome fog & friction and make good use of chance.

Also reading (because I've wanted to for awhile) Field Marshal Viscount Slim's memoirs - Defeat into Victory - another memoir along the lines of Grant - which so far has plenty of good things available to those of our profession willing to listen.

Best, Rob

I've just finished a first draft of my chapter on the Iraq decision and the conventional campaign, so I revisted Cobra II, Fiasco, and Keegan's book. I met Gordon at BIAP in May 2003. That's him on the left in the picture.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i162/ssif21/100_00321.jpg

I'm about to finish Peter Galbraith's The End of Iraq and will probably start Martin van Creveld's The Changing Face of War after that. Or I may finish Colin Gray's Another Bloody Century since I'm trying to get him to write the foreword for my book.

Rob Thornton
11-12-2007, 05:27 PM
I've just finished a first draft of my chapter on the Iraq decision and the conventional campaign, so I revisted Cobra II, Fiasco, and Keegan's book. I met Gordon at BIAP in May 2003. That's him on the left in the picture.


The fights up and around Nasiriyah, Samawah, Najaf, and Kifl, as well as the ambushes laid out for the AH-64s when they went on their deep attack need to be studied in depth. As I read those chapters (11-15) I got to thinking about some of the discussion Terry Terriff and I had and some of the things I've read recently by guys like Frank Hoffman.

This blending of enemy capabilities faced by Vth Corps and the MEF served up some tactical and operational challenges that I believe are certainly relevant and there to be picked up on by friend and foe alike. I hope history does not paint the invasion of Iraq and the attack to Baghdad as something that was a foregone conclusion - it was a real fight for those engaged in it, both against a determined enemy, the terrain/weather and our own friction (logistics & C2 most notably) generated as the campaign progressed - the units involved made it work.

To take it as an easy win would be irresponsible, and will leave us ill-prepared for future adversaries who have made good use of their time and have well scrutinized our own capabilities, or lack thereof.

This is what bothers me - while I acknowledge the need for a balanced full spectrum force, I'm having some problems imagining one that does everything equally well - it seems to me that might just as well mean one that does everything equally poor. We cannot train and maintain everything and every skill set to a "T" across the broader force -not with a prohibitive OPTEMPO - the best we might hope for is a "P" (or "P+ if given sufficient train up time)". We'll have the devil of a time trying to field and maintain the equipment to do so - as well as recruit and retain the folks we say we need.

I think any solution has got to start with people and fostering those attributes that make things (weapons, equipment) and even organizations work in ways they may not have been intended to. As far as equipment and technology - I think things that offer greater utility while retaining reliability, that are easier to sustain from the perspective of operating in a non-permissive, hostile environment , and offer a reasonable MTBF without having parts or sub-systems that become single points of failure or seek to take the person out of the loop for sake of saving the machine should be the rule. The technological means should enable to person - not the other way around.

It might mean we will not be able to perform strategic somersaults in delivering small, highly survivable, highly lethal formations on demand and as such may have to have and retain a bigger force, and it may mean we will have to invest in stronger legs to get us there and sustain us - but maybe that is OK if it provides us operational flexibility and tactical opportunity when and where and when it matters.

As we are an instrument of policy to achieve a political object it should be anticipated that we will find ourselves in wide variety of wars requiring us to do everything from invade a country with a comparable military that is well led and knows the terrain to COIN to humanitarian support to enabling civil support. Ken's point about balance and consistency should be heeded.

Well - I did not know I was going to write all that - but if you want a book that will provide some material for considering thoughts on force structure,and other military problems - COBRA II is a good one.

Steve, let us know when the book comes out - I'd like to pick up a copy.

Best, Rob

goesh
11-15-2007, 12:21 PM
Al Qu'ran, again, in light of the Sarajevo thread and subsequent discussion on Christian/Islamic parallels and invariance.

PhilR
11-17-2007, 07:12 AM
Not sure if this is the proper thread, but I just ran across this on the Australia Land Warfare Studies website: http://www.defence.gov.au/Army/lwsc/ (its under Study Papers)
Its a pretty good reading list. Many titles are familiar, but many are "out of the mainstream" for military reading lists (and I'm not just talking about Australia-specific titles). There's a healthy dose of fiction and I was intrigued by logic of its matching of book titles to ranks (the idea of mathing is common, but there are some interesting choices here). Also, there seems to be a logic to the list in that the books are presented in a manner to suggest that some should be read close together--to gain differing perspectives on a subject.
The intro article on reading military history, originally published in 1965, is also well worth the time.

SteveMetz
11-17-2007, 10:33 AM
Not sure if this is the proper thread, but I just ran across this on the Australia Land Warfare Studies website: http://www.defence.gov.au/Army/lwsc/ (its under Study Papers)
Its a pretty good reading list. Many titles are familiar, but many are "out of the mainstream" for military reading lists (and I'm not just talking about Australia-specific titles). There's a healthy dose of fiction and I was intrigued by logic of its matching of book titles to ranks (the idea of mathing is common, but there are some interesting choices here). Also, there seems to be a logic to the list in that the books are presented in a manner to suggest that some should be read close together--to gain differing perspectives on a subject.
The intro article on reading military history, originally published in 1965, is also well worth the time.

Interesting. Peter Leahy (the Chief of Army) was my student at Leavenworth.

SteveMetz
11-17-2007, 12:19 PM
Having just finished Galbraith's The End of Iraq, I picked Colin Gray's Another Bloody Century up again. I was about 120 pages in. So I laid in bed last night reading the passage where he gores me.

Merv Benson
11-17-2007, 05:50 PM
Rob Thorton said:


The fights up and around Nasiriyah, Samawah, Najaf, and Kifl, as well as the ambushes laid out for the AH-64s when they went on their deep attack need to be studied in depth. As I read those chapters (11-15) I got to thinking about some of the discussion Terry Terriff and I had and some of the things I've read recently by guys like Frank Hoffman.

I agree. I think the A-10 is a superior aircraft for that particular mission, and my guess is that if the Army was flying them, they would have been used.

I am currently reading Bruce Catton's Terrible Swift Sword. I just finished his The Coming Fury. The political and military incompetence on both sides fascinating. I like both books. My next book will be Never Call Retreat which will finish off his trilogy. They were written in the early 1960s, but are very readable and informative.

SteveMetz
11-17-2007, 06:05 PM
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/used/listingResults.asp?z=y&stage=csListingResults&WID=2134093

You can get it for between $12 and $20 used through B&N on-line.

I noticed that Potomac is already knocking down the price on my book (http://www.potomacbooksinc.com/Books/AuthorDetail.aspx?id=13203) and it's 10 months before publication. At this rate, by the time it finally comes out, they'll be paying people to take it.

Gian P Gentile
11-18-2007, 02:07 AM
Steve:

Congratulations on your book.

I noticed that the advertisment to your book has you as an "expert." Beware, dpeters may come after you next.

gian

Rob Thornton
11-18-2007, 10:16 PM
I noticed that Potomac is already knocking down the price on my book and it's 10 months before publication. At this rate, by the time it finally comes out, they'll be paying people to take it.

Steve don't worry - the price in the AWC bookstore will be $40 and it will be on the required reading list:D

Congrats - its quite an accomplishment to publish a book.
Best Regards, Rob

Rob Thornton
11-19-2007, 03:40 AM
Hit this a few minutes ago while reading Field Marshal Viscount Slim's "Defeat Into Victory: Battling Japan in Burma and India, 1942-1945" and wanted to share why I think amongst the various books and articles you might pick up why you might also pick up something from a British general who fought a tenacious and skilled enemy, in one of the worst places you could get stuck fighting a war - his observations run the gamut from civil military operations to tank warfare in restrictive terrain - from jungle fighting to HUMINT.

Here are some of Slim's observations on morale:


Morale is a state of mind. It is that intangible force which will move a whole group of men to give their last ounce to achieve something, without counting the cost to themselves; that makes them feel they are a part of something greater than themselves. If they are to feel that, their morale must, if it is to endure - and the essence of morale is that is should endure-have certain foundations. These foundations are spiritual, intellectual and material, and that is the order of their importance. Spiritual first, because only spiritual foundations can stand real strain. Next Intellectual, because men are swayed by reason as well as feeling. Material last-important, but last-because the very highest kinds of morale are often met when material conditions are lowest.

Slim goes on to lay out the composition of each category:


1) Spiritual
a) There must be a great an noble object.
b) Its achievement must be vital.
c) The method of achievement must be active, aggressive.
d) The man must feel that what he is and what he does matters directly toward the attainment of the object.

2) Intellectual
a) He must be convinced that the object can be obtained; that it is not out of reach.
b) He must see too, that the organization to which he belongs and which is striving to achieve the object is an efficient one.
c) He must have confidence in his leaders and know that whatever dangers and hardships he is called upon to suffer, his life will not be lightly flung away.

3) Material
a) The man must feel he will get a fair deal from his commanders and from the Army generally.
b) He must, as far as humanly possible, be given the best weapons and equipment for his task.
c) His living and working conditions must be made as good as they can be.

This is from the chapter entitled "The Foundations" which is the first after Slim has been promoted from command of VVV Corps to the command of 14th Army. Prior to that he'd been brought in from a division command in the Iraqi desert to take command of I Burma Corps - which had ended with a very difficult withdrawal while in contact with the Japanese back through Burma to India.

By the time he writes down his foundations of morale - the ones broken out above, he'd learned a helluva lot about leading men under the most difficult circumstances.

If you get a chance to read this book - you'll see allot of familiar observations about character, decision making under pressure, chance and opportunity in war, the importance of logistics, the effect of poor reports, or what it takes to adapt a unit to the conditions at hand to solve the tactical and operational problems it faces.


Best Regards, Rob

Ski
11-19-2007, 02:55 PM
"Basic Principles of the Islamic Worldview" by Sayyid Qutb

"From Secularism to Jihad: Sayyid Qutb and the Foundations of Radical Islamism" by Adnan Musallan

Writing a Master's Paper on the influence of Qutb on Al Qaeda and other Arab terror groups. Fun stuff. Sunnis, in general, have an extremely literal translation of the Quran. Qutb's basic message is that anyone outside of Islam is a jahili, and that includes the Shi'i and the Sufi as well.

SteveMetz
11-19-2007, 03:42 PM
"Basic Principles of the Islamic Worldview" by Sayyid Qutb

"From Secularism to Jihad: Sayyid Qutb and the Foundations of Radical Islamism" by Adnan Musallan

Writing a Master's Paper on the influence of Qutb on Al Qaeda and other Arab terror groups. Fun stuff. Sunnis, in general, have an extremely literal translation of the Quran. Qutb's basic message is that anyone outside of Islam is a jahili, and that includes the Shi'i and the Sufi as well.

You might want to get in touch with Sherifa Zuhur (http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pubs/people.cfm?authorID=555).

120mm
11-19-2007, 03:54 PM
I have been challenged by an on-line "weapons expert" to re-read "Mis-Fire; The History of How America's Small Arms Have Failed Our Military" by William H. Hallahan. I read it when it was first released, in the mid-90s, and left with somewhat of a sour taste in my mouth.

The "expert" challenged me to re-read it, and while there are some interesting bits, it is even more awful than I remember. If I were to grade it as 19 separate papers, it would average a "C", with some chapters getting an "A" and some getting an "F". This book is filled with internal contradictions, unsupported conclusions, and some "facts" that are just downright wrong.

Note to budding authors/historians: If you want to write history, write history. If you want to write technical history, without actual technical experience, please, spare us all from your floundering.

Ski
11-19-2007, 09:13 PM
Thanks for the link Steve


You might want to get in touch with Sherifa Zuhur (http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pubs/people.cfm?authorID=555).

Granite_State
11-23-2007, 11:10 AM
Bloch's Strange Defeat. Only about 15 pages in, but good so far.

MattC86
11-24-2007, 06:59 PM
Liddell-Hart's The other Side of the Hill: Germany's Generals, Their Rise and Fall, With Their Own Account of Military Events, 1939-45.

He does an amazing job of breaking down the tendency of the Germans to blame things on Hitler, and showing exactly what happened. Eye opening.

Also an interesting study in the moral obligations of high command. Without Liddell Hart (probably my favorite military writer these days) saying it explicitly, I take away from it the terrible moral failure of the German generals isolating themselves from "political" decisions. It is convenient for the high-ranking officer to claim he only executes national policy determined by others, but to me, while his uniform prevents him from issuing orders to the highest civilian command, it does not, it must not remove him from the moral obligation to his country and his soldiers, to do what is right.

Matt

zenpundit
11-24-2007, 10:39 PM
He does an amazing job of breaking down the tendency of the Germans to blame things on Hitler, and showing exactly what happened. Eye opening.

Matt

Agreed.

Hitler was neither insane nor incompetent as a statesmen engaged in high military affairs, despite a lack of professional training or command experience. His intuitive judgments of developing military situations were often better than many top Wehrmacht generals and field marshals and Hitler's assessments of enemy psychology were frequently very shrewd.

Hitler's mental capacity declined as the war progressed along with his health but Hitler, while essentially a self-taught amateur, hadability to work with than many comparable historical figures. Certainly moreso than Stalin or Roosevelt (Churchill came to the table with extensive, if bitter, experience at high level wartime policy making during WWI and service on the Western Front).

zenpundit
11-24-2007, 10:40 PM
" had more ability to work with " - sorry!

goesh
11-27-2007, 03:42 PM
Pox Americana: The Great Smallpox Epdidemic of 1775-82: Fenn, Elizabeth

Wars against man and disease have many similiar appendages. Elements of the Colonial press accused Cornwallis of intentionally spreading smallpox - talk about WMD and old time psyops.....

Old Eagle
11-27-2007, 04:49 PM
Not a military book, per se. Great read, especially for Afghan hands. Peace is right around the corner.

I still have a hard time believing Hosseini is writing in a foreign language. Writes much better than I do in my native language. (Better'n a bunch of you, too. No offense.)

Norfolk
11-28-2007, 01:59 PM
Leavenworth Paper No. 22 Moving the Enemy by Dr. Gary J. Bjorge. I am just fascinated by Su Yu's mastery of the Operational Art and his crystal-clear Strategic foresight.

Tom Odom
11-28-2007, 02:04 PM
Norfolk,

Gary Bjorge is a great historian and firend. He really broke ground on that one. he has also done great work on Merrills Marauders.

Best

Tom

Tom Odom
11-28-2007, 02:05 PM
Norfolk,

Gary Bjorge is a great historian and firend. He really broke ground on that one. he has also done great work on Merrills Marauders.

Best

Tom

Norfolk
11-28-2007, 02:06 PM
Norfolk,

Gary Bjorge is a great historian and firend. He really broke ground on that one. he has also done great work on Merrills Marauders.

Best

Tom

Tom, did Dr. Bjorge also write one of the CGSC's papers on Merrill's Marauders or was that all Col. McMichael?

slapout9
11-28-2007, 02:12 PM
Norfolk, can you post the link to the paper? Thanks

Tom Odom
11-28-2007, 02:14 PM
Gary did a special study (http://www-cgsc.army.mil/carl/resources/csi/Bjorge/BJORGE.asp)on them. Scott McMichaels used them in his light infantry study (http://www-cgsc.army.mil/carl/resources/csi/content.asp#hist).

Best

Tom

slapout9
11-28-2007, 02:22 PM
Thanks Tom got them all now. Slap

Norfolk
11-28-2007, 03:03 PM
Gary did a special study (http://www-cgsc.army.mil/carl/resources/csi/Bjorge/BJORGE.asp)on them. Scott McMichaels used them in his light infantry study (http://www-cgsc.army.mil/carl/resources/csi/content.asp#hist).

Best

Tom

Thanks Tom, much obliged.

Sorry Slap, I just saw your post, and Tom beat me to it!

For anyone who's interested, here's the link to Dr. Bjorge's Leavenworth Paper No. 22 Moving the Enemy:

https://cgsc.leavenworth.army.mil/carl/download/csipubs/bjorge_huai.pdf

jcustis
11-29-2007, 03:27 AM
The Devil Came on Horseback: Bearing witness to the genocide in Darfur by Brian Steidle w/ Gretchen Steidle Wallace.

Public Affairs, 2007. 223 pages

Steidle is a former Marine Corps captain who contracted to serve as a monitor for the African Union in first southern Sudan, and eventually Darfur from Jan 2004 to Jan 2006. Upon ending his contract, where he was forced to be a completely impartial observer only, he became a vocal advocate for intervention and resolution of the Darfur crisis.

His account of the internal strife between the various players and the innocents caught in between is a fairly easy read, most of the time. There are some occasions, however, when it seems obvious that his journal or voice recordings factor too heavily in the chopped writing. As an example, there are several occasions when the tension rises quickly and shots are fired, but his team simply leaves the area and Steidle makes no more mention of the incident.

It could stand to have several detailed maps throughout the book, since I had to go to Reliefweb to find more detailed maps that provided some perspective of topography at least. As much as I enjoy the relatively easy read and reasonable length, I have also found myself desiring more development of Steidle's fellow team-members, the NGO groups working around them, and even the janjaweed (devils on horseback) militiamen who ae blame for much of the torture, rape, looting, and village burning. About 60% of the book tracks as though he is simply recounting daily events out of a journal or filed investigations.

I give it 3 out of 5 stars. Good for getting started with an understanding of the problems in Sudan/Darfur.

bourbon
12-16-2007, 07:04 PM
I need to read Charlie Wilson's War since my friend Mike Vickers (Janine's boss) plays a major role. Mike tells me the movie version with Tom Hanks will be out around the end of the year.

From the Shadows to the Silver Screen (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gZuJmfmY5crFIMDNaIOkqspFs1FgD8THVPMO0), By RICHARD LARDNER. Associated Press, December 15, 2007


Related story:
Hollywood and the CIA: The Spook Stays In The Picture: (http://www.motherjones.com/cgi-bin/print_article.pl?url=http://www.motherjones.com/news/outfront/2008/01/hollywood-and-the-cia.html) Charlie Wilson's War is only the latest in a string of movies brought to you by CIA insider Milt Bearden, Laura Rozen. Mother Jones, December 13 , 2007.


Besides Hanks, the film features Roberts as a right-wing Texas heiress and, in a bit of creative casting, Philip Seymour Hoffman as the late Gust Avrakotos, an operative remembered by colleagues as a "macho Greek" überhawk. "Avrakotos, rest his soul, would turn in his grave if he imagined that the guy who played Truman Capote was playing him," says Bearden.
Got a laugh at this, Gust Avrakotos comes off as a real hard guy in CWW, Ghost Wars and Milt Bearden's book, If I recall his nickname was "Dr. Dirty". Truman Capote!

Currently Reading: Unholy Terror: Bosnia, Al-Qa'ida, and the Rise of Global Jihad by John R. Schindler.
Schindler, a professor at the Naval War College and former NSA Balkan hand, argues that the 92-95 Bosnia conflict served in the 90's as much the same way Afghanistan did in the 80's for the Jihad. Slowly working my through this, but so far so good.

tequila
12-17-2007, 01:02 PM
Bourbon - Does Schindler have much on the role of Bosnia vis a vis Chechnya in this regard?

bourbon
12-17-2007, 03:17 PM
Let me get back to you on this next week, I've briefly lent my copy out.

Granite_State
12-20-2007, 09:28 PM
Fields of Fire. About halfway through, some of the characters seem more like stereotypes than full people, but otherwise really enjoying it.

patmc
12-20-2007, 11:00 PM
Just finished Sir Robert Thompson's "Defeating Communist Insurgency."

Great read, and offers lots of clear, practical advice. I'm glad that our new strategy seems to be more in line with coin thought like this book offers. Fast read, but great information.

Next: Persian Mirrors: The Elusive Face of Iran by Sciolino. So far, great insight into the day-to-day life of Iranians, and their personal attitudes and politics.

davidbfpo
04-05-2013, 04:40 PM
Moderator at work

New thread created to enable easier searching, so now split into years, started with 2007.