RFI: Drones for border control in a rainy forest environment

[davidbfpo]

From M-A Lagrange. Looking to identify an experiment, probably done in South America, using drones for border control in a wild rainy forest environment.

My question is simple: how effective is / was it for border control and tracking individuals/groups movements?

Thanks in advance.

Marc

[carl]

Why not check out the records of manned aircraft doing the same kind work in the China, Burma, India and southwest pacific areas in WWII? Also the experience of the Brits in Malaya and our experience in Vietnam with both fixed and rotary wing aircraft. I don't think the drone part is the important part. A drone is just an observation platform that has more endurance but no peripheral vision. The important part of your question is the rainy forested part and there is lots of experience with that. The Columbian and Brazilian experience would be good to look at also. In Columbia I believe we used things like the YO-3, in Vietnam too.

Just going from memory, they haven't been too successful. You can't see through the canopy. The NVA/VC used to move around thousands of men and vehicles, even tanks and we never saw them despite lots of airplanes and helos looking. Even in North Korea the PLA was able to move hundreds of thousands of men into position without our seeing much. There was no tropical forest there.

[Firn]

@carl: I think those past lessons are highly valuable for many aspects of the craft however I don't know if the same goes for sensors like thermals, lidar and radar + plenty of computing power. In that latter case recent experiments in such environments would be very interesting indeed.

[jmm99]

As Emmerson points out, drones ain't about to go away. See, from National Defense: Worldwide, Drones Are in High Demand (http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/archive/2013/May/Pages/Worldwide,DronesAreinHighDemand.aspx) (May 2013, by Dan Parsons), as illustrated by this Brazilian example:

http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/archive/2013/May/PublishingImages/brazilian-hermes-450.jpg

Brazil is not an established drone player - yet:

1716

but, it certainly looks like a strong comer. See, Merco Press, Brazil and Israeli companies join to develop unmanned aircraft for border control (http://en.mercopress.com/2013/02/06/brazil-and-israeli-companies-join-to-develop-unmanned-aircraft-for-border-control) - Brazilian defence contractor Avibras will join plane maker Embraer SA and the local unit of Israeli Defence Company Elbit Systems in developing unmanned aircraft in Brazil, the companies said on Tuesday (February 6, 2013).

Will drones be effective in a "rain forest" ? That is beyond my expertise; so, I leave it to someone else to pick up that part of the thread. If they are effective for recon, intel, etc., in the "rain forest"; one wonders how long it will take for them to be weaponized. Crossbow, fusil, etc.

Regards

Mike

[davidbfpo]

Mark,

On a quick search it appears that Brazil has been using drones

1) http://latinamericacurrentevents.com/brazilian-drones-to-help-detect-clandestine-factories-and-airstrips-in-bolivia/19935/

Started with civil applications:http://latintrade.com/2011/10/brazil%E2%80%99s-homemade-drones

2) Chile too on its Peruvian border: http://latinamericacurrentevents.com/chile-employing-drones-in-fight-against-drug-trafficking-along-border-with-bolivia-peru/15692/

The first two reports are secondary press reports, the original source didn't translate here. So perhaps a deeper search on Brazil?

[M-A Lagrange]

Thanks everybody.
I am very much interrested in the performences of the technologies developed to "see under the canopy".
Basically, in DRC the UN are planing to deploy drones to control the border (rainy forest and high vegetation). My wondering is how effective those technology are in such environment and what are the limits.

Thanks again.

Marc-Andre