Special Forces Use of Pack Animals

[SWJED]

Posted at Secrecy News (FAS Blog) - Special Forces Use of Pack Animals (http://www.fas.org/blog/secrecy/2007/01/special_forces_use_of_pack_ani.html).


U.S. special operations forces typically make use of some of the most sophisticated military and intelligence gear available. But sometimes a "no tech" solution is the right one.

So, for example, Special Forces "may find themselves involved in operations in rural or remote environments... using pack animals," including horses, donkeys and mules.

"Pack animal operations are ideally suited for, but not limited to, conducting various missions in high mountain terrain, deserts, and dense jungle terrain."

An Army Special Forces manual (http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm3-05-213.pdf) (large pdf) provides instruction and doctrinal guidance for using pack animals in training and combat missions.

"This manual provides the techniques of animal pack transport and for organizing and operating pack animal units. It captures some of the expertise and techniques that have been lost in the United States Army over the last 50 years."...

The 225 page manual provides a basic introduction to the characteristics of each of the various pack animals, some rudiments of veterinary care, and miscellaneous lore....

The Special Forces manual has not been approved for public release, but a copy was obtained by Secrecy News.

Also see Chapter VII - Mounted Detachments of the Small Wars Manual (http://www.smallwarsjournal.com/documents/smallwarsmanual.pdf).

[Rifleman]

In the late '80s and early '90s some SF personel attended packing clinics in the Rocky Mountain states instructed by civilian outfitters and guides. I guess it was an attempt to relearn things that the Army had let slip from it's institutional memory.

I used to work for a Wyoming outfitter who had instructed some SF. He was kind of a crotchety old drunk, although he knew his way around pack stock. I don't think SF sent teams to him more than a couple of times, for obvious reasons. I believe the teams were from 7th SFG (A).

[Uboat509]

It is still taught from time to time.

SFC W

[goesh]

You'd be surprised how much stuff a dog can pack. Burros are darn agile critters too and can carry a tremendous load. The best thing about them is they can both be eaten too. A husky mutt could come in darn handy in rough terrain I tell you. Let's say you've got a base camp at a lower elevation and an OP up higher, well all you have do is load Fido up with chow or canteens or clips and whistle him up then he can be whistled back down or kept up there at night for sentry duty. A dog's ears and nose can come in darn handy to alert you to movement on the perimeter. Dogs are pretty good morale boosters too. Maybe some burros and dogs could be drafted - the Public wouldn't complain too much about that....

[Jedburgh]

FM 25-6 Dog Team Transportation - 4 Jan 41 (http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/ref/FM/PDFs/FM25-6.PDF)

FM 25-7 Pack Transportation - 25 Aug 44 (http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/ref/FM/PDFs/FM25-7.PDF)

[Steve Blair]

Don't the Marines still have a pack animal program? When I was working for an organization in Kansas we got a request for copies of that 1944 FM jed linked to for a Marine course. All I remember now is that it was on the West Coast somewhere. This would have been in 1998 or 1999.

[Tom Odom]

Historically this was of course more the norm than the exception. That the former Sec Def chose to seize on such ops in Afghanistan just shows a lack of historical understanding.

Despite its fearsome reputation for mechanized warfare, the Wehrmacht was largely horse drawn, especially in the Infantry and Armored Infantry.

The Burma theater was a donkey's paradise: look at the 5307th Composite Unit "Merrills Marauders".

6th Ranger Battalion was originally a mule/donkey unit. They converted to Rangers because they had been handpicked as strapping farm boys.

Same thing in the ETO--especially Italy.

Besides I felt like a pack mule in Ranger school. Does that count?

Tom

[Bill Moore]

Tom,

On the lighter side thanks for the historical reference to the Rangers legacy tied to a much of asses. I'm going to use that one for a few of my buddies down the road. Bill

[El Machetazo]

The Marine Corps still runs an animal packing course at Bridgeport.

[Stan]

The Marine Corps still runs an animal packing course at Bridgeport.

Thanks for the post...Indeed interesting !


Marines practice their horse packing skills (http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/marines/a/marinehorse.htm) at the base stables. Using animals to carry gear has been used since the beginning of warfare, but fell out of military use with the advent of all-terrain vehicles.

CAMP LEJEUNE, N.C. -- With plans for a seven-month deployment to Afghanistan in the near future, the Marines of 2nd Battalion, 8th Marine Regiment, are honing their mountaineering skills in order to be ready for combat in any clime or place.

Reverting to a less technological means of maneuver warfare, these Marines are preparing for service with horses and mules to ensure success on the battlefield.

[carl]

If I remember correctly, when Crook was chasing the Apaches around in the 1880's, his mules were hauling loads of up to 400 pounds. Indian Army elephants, at the time, were only able to carry 500 pounds.

[Mike Spight]

When I was still teaching in the SOF Element, CGSOC, one of the DJMO instructors (an ADA LTC who was a real, no BS cowboy--grew up on a Montana ranch) would run a weekend class for SOF Advanced Track students out of the stables on Ft. Leavenworth. Subject: packing and riding horses.

I believe it was offered 2 or 3 times in the two years I was there.

[MattM]

The Manual makes mention of the daily food and water requirements for pack goats, but offers no more information on these beasts of burden.

The following link has a lot of information. I do not know if it is the best source of information on pack goats; I read the manual mostly because it was titled for Special Forces and not regular Army, which made me curious. The resourcefulness of using old "technologies" was interesting as well.

<http://www.napga.org/>

What piques my interest the most is that for CENTCOM and SOUTHCOM, goats could be procured in country and disposed of locally and beneficially at end of mission. While pack goats may not have "taken off" as the next yuppie pursuit in suburban Kabul or Bogota, I'm sure there is a lot of local expertise. Basically, I think the option of using pack animals is much more feasible when the using US unit is not shipping livestock half way around the world, but sourcing the muscle locally (not necessarily the supplies and nutrition). Also, it seems a string of goats is a lot less conspicuos than mammoth stock jack mules.

[Rifleman]

If I remember correctly, when Crook was chasing the Apaches around in the 1880's, his mules were hauling loads of up to 400 pounds. Indian Army elephants, at the time, were only able to carry 500 pounds.

That doesn't sound right to me. Could you find a source for that?

The cavalry used 25% as a rule of thumb for the amount a saddle horse should carry for sustained operations. That means 1000lbs of horse carries 250lbs of trooper and gear. Some Arabs can sustain 1/3 bodyweight.

So, using that rule of thumb, a 1000 - 1200lbs mule should have a 250 - 300lbs load, maximum. If anything, pack stock should carry less proportionately, not more; dead weight is actually harder on an animal than a good rider.

Having said that, both animals and men were pushed past exaustion on campaigns when the tactical situation required it.

[Jedburgh]

....So, using that rule of thumb, a 1000 - 1200lbs mule should have a 250 - 300lbs load, maximum. If anything, pack stock should carry less proportionately, not more; dead weight is actually harder on an animal than a good rider.
It appears that you're pretty much on target. The '44 Pack Transportation FM states that, Over terrain which is not mountainous, the pack mule may be expected to travel 20 miles or more per day carrying 250 pounds of pay load. (Pay load does not include weight of the saddle and its accessories.) As long as the mule receives proper care and feed, this expectancy of his capability continues indefinitely. In mountainous terrain, the mule is capable of carrying 250 pounds, but the distance should be reduced to 10 or 15 miles per day. Loaded pack mules usually are able to travel anywhere a man can walk without the use of his hands for support.


BBC, 4 Aug 07: Venezuela's four-legged mobile libraries (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/6929404.stm)

....As the project grows, it is using the latest technology.

Somehow there is already a limited mobile phone signal here, so the organisers are taking advantage of that and equipping the mules with laptops and projectors.

The book mules are becoming cyber mules and cine mules.

"We want to install wireless modems under the banana plants so the villagers can use the internet," says Robert Ramirez, the co-ordinator of the university's Network of Enterprising Rural Schools.

"Imagine if people in the poor towns in the valley can e-mail saying how many tomatoes they'll need next week, or how much celery.

"The farmers can reply telling them how much they can produce. It's blending localisation and globalisation."....

[William F. Owen]

As as has been reported in various press sources, the Lebanon war saw the first IDF "combat" use of Llamas for transporting supplies. Over the weekend I met one of the guys who had operated with them. The activity is actually more "classified" than I imagined, but here are a few pointers:-

a. Llamas are better behaved than donkeys. They are also much quieter. They never really say anything and they walk almost silently compare to a donkey.
b. Llamas will go places donkeys will not.
c. Llamas can be made to "sit" in a Humvee. Donkeys can't even get into a Humvee.
e. They eat and drink less than donkeys.
f. Their coats are excellent camouflage and the even "white" Llamas can be "toned down" using camouflage while doing the animal no harm at all. It's just hair.

on the down side,

e. Opinion was that Llamas can't carry as much as Donkeys, (you can't really ride them) and are far more expensive to buy. This apparently is a problem!!

[Rex Brynen]

Just so you know Wilf is serious (really)...

http://www.animalpicturesarchive.com/Arch05/1154567910.jpg

[gh_uk]

http://www.orthodoxanarchist.com/images/alpaca.jpg

[Jedburgh]

As as has been reported in various press sources, the Lebanon war saw the first IDF "combat" use of Llamas for transporting supplies. Over the weekend I met one of the guys who had operated with them. The activity is actually more "classified" than I imagined, but here are a few pointers:-

a. Llamas are better behaved than donkeys. They are also much quieter. They never really say anything and they walk almost silently compare to a donkey.
b. Llamas will go places donkeys will not.
c. Llamas can be made to "sit" in a Humvee. Donkeys can't even get into a Humvee.
e. They eat and drink less than donkeys.
f. Their coats are excellent camouflage and the even "white" Llamas can be "toned down" using camouflage while doing the animal no harm at all. It's just hair.

on the down side,

e. Opinion was that Llamas can't carry as much as Donkeys, (you can't really ride them) and are far more expensive to buy. This apparently is a problem!!
....just as an FYI, Llamas are covered in the first section of Chapter 10, Llamas and Other Animals of the field manual (http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm3-05-213.pdf) mentioned in the first post in this thread.

[Rex Brynen]

That would be Unmanned Donkey Vehicles *g*

Tragic end for smuggling donkeys (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3267873.stm)
By Mohamed Arezki Himeur
BBC, Algiers
Thursday, 13 November, 2003, 15:36 GMT


Smugglers in Algeria have reportedly come up with a novel way to get their contraband into Morocco - donkeys, with tape recorders on their backs.

A taped message is repeated, saying "Err", Arabic for "walk", so that the donkeys do not stop as they follow the smugglers' tracks unaccompanied.

However, the customs service learnt of the ruse and has killed 200 of the donkeys, says the El Khabar newspaper.

[J Wolfsberger]

The Burma theater was a donkey's paradise: look at the 5307th Composite Unit "Merrills Marauders".

My first wife's father was one of the mule skinners with Merril's Marauders. I may be misremembering, but he claimed that they were able to provide almost all the logistic support for the unit. (He still had his McClellan saddle. I admired the fortitude it took to spend hours on the d--- thing. :D)

[Steve Blair]

That doesn't sound right to me. Could you find a source for that?

The cavalry used 25% as a rule of thumb for the amount a saddle horse should carry for sustained operations. That means 1000lbs of horse carries 250lbs of trooper and gear. Some Arabs can sustain 1/3 bodyweight.

So, using that rule of thumb, a 1000 - 1200lbs mule should have a 250 - 300lbs load, maximum. If anything, pack stock should carry less proportionately, not more; dead weight is actually harder on an animal than a good rider.

Having said that, both animals and men were pushed past exaustion on campaigns when the tactical situation required it.

I missed this one earlier....

There was much talk about mules being able to carry 250-400 pounds, but it was just that...talk. Thomas Devin discovered in 1868 that mules were really only capable of handling about 200 pounds; anything more than that and mobility was reduced to an unacceptable level. Crook's packers might have squeezed a few more pounds on them, and had better stock, but you're still looking at 250 pounds as a maximum (and the 1944 packers' manual was based on articles and manuals that were a direct result of Indian Wars experience with mules).

Crook was notorious for his expenditure of men and horses on campaign, and had been since before the Civil War. He was much more careful of his mule train (too much so in the opinion of many who campaigned with him in 1876). Other commands had reasonable success with them (Mackenzie used mules during his Remolino raid in 1873 and later during the Red River War...and if I recall he also complained about Crook's logistics during the 1876 campaign).

Mules, on the whole, tended to work best with small scouting operations or columns that had under, say, 150 men. Once you cleared that point, it became something of a toss-up, IMO.

[Tom Odom]

My first wife's father was one of the mule skinners with Merril's Marauders. I may be misremembering, but he claimed that they were able to provide almost all the logistic support for the unit. (He still had his McClellan saddle. I admired the fortitude it took to spend hours on the d--- thing. :D)

good paper here on the Marauders from a good friend Dr, Gary Bjorge

Merrill's Marauders:Combined Operations in Northern Burma in 1944 (http://www-cgsc.army.mil/carl/resources/csi/Bjorge/BJORGE.asp)

Also a Chapter in Research Survey #6 (http://www-cgsc.army.mil/carl/resources/csi/content.asp#hist)on Light Infantry on the Marauders and the Chndits Gary wrote this one as well.

Tom

[milnews.ca]

Canadian military looking to donkeys to help carry the load during summer
Canadian Press, 12 Dec 08
Article link (http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5ggK4wePj5q0pU3Yjtv6cF000UzNg)

The Canadian Forces already have tanks, armoured vehicles and helicopters at their command in their battle against the Taliban in Afghanistan. They are about to add one more item to their arsenal - the donkey, perhaps the humblest of the beasts of burden.

Yes the donkey corps, for lack of a better name, is in the plans for next summer.

Even those involved in the project see the humour of going back to basics in an era of high-tech weaponry.

"You can't have a project like this that you don't laugh at a bit, but it has the potential to be very successful and, like a lot of things we do, we're adding another arrow to the quiver," said Capt. Chris Quinlan.

The terrain is one of the major challenges facing Canadian and coalition troops in Afghanistan. There are mountains, irrigation canals, grape fields, mud walls around compounds, and wadis - a dry riverbed that contains water only during times of heavy rain.

Roadways can be limited and narrow, meaning the Taliban can easily place improvised explosive devices that can prove deadly to vehicles carrying Canadian and Afghan soldiers.

The other problem is the heat during the summer months. The temperature can hit the 50s, even 60s.

"Last summer we were up to 55 degrees Celsius, so you're looking well over 100 degrees Fahrenheit," said Maj. Charles Jansen, the self-proclaimed "Ass-Master" spearheading the donkey brigade idea.... More on link


Also, a tongue-in-cheek draft of a shoulder patch for the soon-to-be-formed Canadian Forces Pack Animal Command (CFPANCOM) :D
http://tonyprudori.pbwiki.com/f/Pack%20Animal%20Command.gif

[120mm]

As an old cowboy, I found the 1940 Marine Corps Small Wars Manual had one of the better sections on the care, feeding, handling and training of pack animals and the associated equipment. I believe it even went into how to manufacture the pack equipment locally if necessary, and how to acclimate foreign animals to new locatiosn.

[Steve O.]

I realize that this an older post, but a link to it is what brought me to this board. I just want to make you all aware of the other Long Range Penetration Unit that took up the mission from the Marauders at Myitkyina and continued on to open up the Burma Road. The Mars Task Force, the 5332d Brigade, was also a unit that moved with mules. My Father was a member of C Bty, 612th Field Artillery Bn (Pack), which, along with the 613th FA (PAK) was the artillery slice of the task force. They employed the 75mm Pack Howitzer which was designed to be broken down and packed on mules. Despite the fact that they carried out the same mission in the same area as Merrill's Marauders, the Mars Task Force is not nearly as well known. After they opened the route to China, the Mars Men rolled over into a FID role and trained members of the Chinese Army in a wide range of military tasks.

Many years later, the members of the Mars Task Force were authorized, along with other units from WWII who carried out unconventional missions but were never designated as such, to wear the Green Beret.

[davidbfpo]

Maybe should be in the Obituary thread, but seems best here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/military-obituaries/army-obituaries/5845146/Major-Victor-Warren.html

davidbfpo

[Uboat509]

I just finished a basic horse and mule packing course. I have seen 250 lbs used a number of times on this board and I know that it was in the old manual but we were taught no more than 10 -15% of the animals body weight, which meant about 150lbs as an upper limit. I wasn't really all that impressed with the animals. They tended to be willful stubborn and high maintenance.

SFC W

[Rank amateur]

They tend to be willful stubborn and high maintenance.

SFC W

So are some council members, but you learn to love them. :D

[Ken White]

and the Mules... :D

[Rifleman]

I wasn't really all that impressed with the animals. They tended to be willful stubborn and high maintenance.


They can be at that. Yet, was it likely any different for a Mongol packing a Bactrian camel?

Of course, many NCOs think that troops tend to be willful, stubborn, and high maintenance too.

It is what it is.

[John T. Fishel]

Uboat, RFD TV has a number of programs devoted to equine training. One of them even deals with mules and donkeys. Horses, donkeys, and mules are smart animals with lots of quirks but they all respond to repetition, intelligently applied pressure, and release. One of my favorite trainers, Aussie born Clinton Anderson has a training motto, "As gentle as possible, as firm as necessary TO GET THE JOB DONE."

Pretty good for all stubborn, high maintenance old mules...:eek:

Cheers

JohnT

[Uboat509]

The problem is that, as far as I can see, the areas where these animals might be preferable to more modern modes of transport is very narrow. Excluding their use as a means of blending into the local population, which is a different issue, there really aren't many places where I could not do the same job better with modern equipment. I am aware that these animals can be trained and used effectively but I can't help but feel that it is not worth the effort when there are better means available.

SFC W

[John T. Fishel]

Whose war is it anyway?:rolleyes: If it is their war, then some of the "modern" stuff may not be either available or appropriate. If I may refer to the El Salvador experience here, one of the problems faced by the ESAF was an effective means of pursuit of fleeing FMLN bands. Helicopters would have been the best solution but ESAF didn't have enough and the USA wasn't going to supply them with sufficient numbers. I proposed to my boss a concept of mounted infantry (as distinct from cavalry) using lots of cheap ($150 each) horses with the point rider wearing blast chaps and blast booties as a defense against mines. If a horse took a mine he would be destroyed on the spot and the point rider would mount a new horse and keep going. The pursuit column wouldn't be slowed at all. Couldn't sell it because my boss only saw helos as the solution (oh, and he was a personal friend:confused:).

Cheers

JohnT

[Ken White]

and Teams applied (LINK) (http://www.boston.com/news/world/asia/articles/2009/09/27/special_forces_become_part_of_village_life/) the skills may come in handy.

Now if we can just cease with the CIF stuff and get other less extensively trained Fords dedicated to that so the SF trained Cadillacs can do what they should do... :wry:

[slapout9]

I just finished a basic horse and mule packing course. I have seen 250 lbs used a number of times on this board and I know that it was in the old manual but we were taught no more than 10 -15% of the animals body weight, which meant about 150lbs as an upper limit. I wasn't really all that impressed with the animals. They tended to be willful stubborn and high maintenance.

SFC W
You need a Mule Skinner:D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j70GSW6YMaM&feature=related

[Majormarginal]

I think that is the title of a book about Rangers rescuing Allied POWs in the Phillippines. Their original MOS was Mule Skinner.

[William F. Owen]

I am aware that these animals can be trained and used effectively but I can't help but feel that it is not worth the effort when there are better means available.


And that is confirmed by the IDF's use of Llamas - in preference to Donkeys of Mules. Long Range dismounted infiltration into enemy territory, along pre-cleared routes, with extensive UAV support.

[Rifleman]

I have a co-worker who packs llamas for summer trips in the Rockies. He says they are something to carry your backpack. They can sustain about what an average well conditioned hiker can. Since many tourists are not well conditioned, the llamas are needed.

I can see how this could be very helpful for a soldier when the circumstances are right to employ it, since the soldier wouldn't arrive at his objective as fatigued. I don't doubt llamas have their place but they're not exactly like the Roman practice of one mule per tent group either.

[Firn]

I can see how this could be very helpful for a soldier when the circumstances are right to employ it, since the soldier wouldn't arrive at his objective as fatigued. I don't doubt llamas have their place but they're not exactly like the Roman practice of one mule per tent group either.

If a Lama can only carry a man's load than the advantages experienced by the IDF for the specific tasks must be rather large. The question here is how much can an average well conditioned hiker carry according to your co-worker? ;)

[Rifleman]

He will load 70-80lbs in some cases. Usually that's for a short trip. Often not so much for longer multi-day trips. The animals have to pack off and on all summer so it becomes an issue of sustainment.

So you can see, it's similar to a man with a rucksack. Someone in shape can often do 70-80lbs, but not usually for any great distance day after day.

[John T. Fishel]

llamas traditionally pack up to 100 pounds.:cool:

Cheers

JohnT

[Rifleman]

Something regarding the difference I've alluded to between what an animal can do a few times and what an animal can sustain: an excerpt from Norman Maclean's excellent short story "USFS 1919: The Ranger, the Cook, and a Hole in the Sky":

"...each of the side packs has to weigh the same and together (with the top pack) they shouldn't weigh more than 175 pounds for a horse and 225 for a mule - at least, those were the Forest Service regulations then, but they were twenty-five pounds too heavy if the animals weren't to be bone heaps by the middle of the summer."

Montana author Norman Maclean, some may remember, also wrote "A River Runs through It."

[Tom Odom]

Something regarding the difference I've alluded to between what an animal can do a few times and what an animal can sustain: an excerpt from Norman Maclean's excellent short story "USFS 1919: The Ranger, the Cook, and a Hole in the Sky":

"...each of the side packs has to weigh the same and together (with the top pack) they shouldn't weigh more than 175 pounds for a horse and 225 for a mule - at least, those were the Forest Service regulations then, but they were twenty-five pounds too heavy if the animals weren't to be bone heaps by the middle of the summer."

Montana author Norman Maclean, some may remember, was also wrote "A River Runs through It."

They made a movie out of it with Sam Elliot--pretty good but went to video straight away

[Jedburgh]

llamas traditionally pack up to 100 pounds.:cool:
Kings of War, 17 Jan 09: Llamas, Airborne (http://kingsofwar.org.uk/2010/01/llamas-airborne/)

Last week I spent a day in the Galilee with the chief llama trainer of the Israeli army......

[Firn]

The Austrians still like them blond (http://www.doppeladler.com/oebh/tragtiere_main.htm) :D

In Italy, on the other hand the last mulis were discarded with onore and sold :rolleyes:


Il 7 settembre 1993 presso la caserma D'Angelo di Belluno, vennero venduti all'asta per ordine del Ministero della Difesa, gli ultimi 24 muli in forza agli alpini.[1]


Firn

[davidbfpo]

Jedburgh,

You missed the link to the German Bundeswehr mule: http://www.panzerbaer.de/helper/pix/bw_gebtrp_muli-002i.jpg

It was alongside the Israeli llama trainer.

[JarodParker]

I think this guy misunderstood the term "pack animal"...

http://neatorama.cachefly.net/images/2008-09/man-carrying-donkey.jpg

[Firn]

If you look closely enough you will see that the guy unterstood that term and his role just too well, as did over 2000 years ago certain soldiers ;)


Firn

P.S: Perhaps I'm just spoiled by some practical jokers :)

[Pete]

I heard that during the 1960s the Golden Knights, the U.S. Army parachute team, made use of a 75mm pack howitzer, a weapon designed to be disassembled and transported by pack mules. When headquarters at Fort Detrick, Maryland abruptly cancelled a planned parachute demonstration by the Golden Knights, the next evening at Retreat ceremony when the post howitzer next to the flag pole was fired using a blank the air was filled with the contents of several feather pillows, which floated lazily down onto the drill field. :)

[Uboat509]

I think this guy misunderstood the term "pack animal"...

http://neatorama.cachefly.net/images/2008-09/man-carrying-donkey.jpg

I am thinking brand new 2LT, fresh out of OBC.

SFC W

[William F. Owen]

I think this guy misunderstood the term "pack animal"...

http://neatorama.cachefly.net/images/2008-09/man-carrying-donkey.jpg

You got issued it. I guess you are supposed to carry it. Right?
- a bit like the WW1 wire cutters and wire gloves they give you to carry on the UK Junior Commanders course! :D

[Ken White]

couldn't cope with post-1950 hardened and annealed wires much less barbed tape. Stupid wire cutters would chip and flake off if you even tried to cut the wire in anyone's Concertina. Yet they got carried around for years... :mad:

[E6TLS0369]

I was the SNOCIC of the Animal Pack Program (MCMWTC) Bridgeport Ca. in the mid 80's. Training Blts would send me 8 - 10 Marines to train. I recieved my training from Bud Nelsons Packing in Jackson Hole Wy. (that old drunk guy) I packed Mules all year round. Summer and Winter. I ran a Bell Mare and a eight (8) Mule string. At that time I was the only school trained "Mule Skinner" in the Marine Corps. I haven't been back in years, would like to know if it is still going ?

[Schmedlap]

See also: http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/showthread.php?t=7510

[Rifleman]

I recieved my training from Bud Nelsons Packing in Jackson Hole Wy. (that old drunk guy)

Funny you should mention Uncle Bud. :wry:

http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/showpost.php?p=8660&postcount=2

Now who do you reckon I was talking about? ;)

[E6TLS0369]

You mentioned that you worked for Nelson, when was that ?

[Rifleman]

PM inbound

[kaur]

Trained bucks (?) in Soviet army.

http://www.popmech.ru/article/6840-rogataya-kavaleriya/

Ps this is Fools Day edition :)