Ukraine: non-military aspects (August 2014-December 2015)

[Firn]

Big news of course in the last days:

IMF announces $17.5bn loan for Ukraine (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/12/imf-announces-175bn-loan-for-ukraine) and a 'fragile' peace deal (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/12/ukraine-peace-deal-looks-fragile-in-the-extreme).

We will see how the latter plays out. Possibly the threat of large weapon supplies worked or the threat of more Russian troops in Ukraine or maybe both. It is really impossible to tell at the moment.

http://media1.faz.net/ppmedia/aktuell/3006142294/1.3424883/mmobject-still_full/hq/infografik-die-diplomatische.jpg

Merkel was quite on the move in the last days...

[davidbfpo]

A phrase taken from Sir John Sawers, the former head of MI6 (SIS), in his lecture @ Kings War Studies:http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/16/west-vladimir-putin-john-sawers-mi6-europe


Ukrainians look to us to help them have their chance to embrace the order and values we enjoy here in modern Europe. We and they may end up with a new debilitating frozen conflict in Ukraine, well into the future. That is a wretched outcome for Ukrainians. But it may be the least bad attainable outcome.”


Sawers said efforts by the German chancellor, Angela Merkel, to restore calm deserved the west’s full support. He added: “Once we have calm – if we have calm – we’ll need a new approach to co-existence with president Putin’s Russia.

The convergence between Russia and the west which we had hoped for after the cold war won’t happen while he is in charge. We now know that. Any foreseeable change of power in Russia may well be for the worse. Managing relations with Russia will be the defining problem in European security for years to come.

The full speech is available:http://www.kcl.ac.uk/sspp/departments/warstudies/news/newsrecords/THE-LIMITS-OF-SECURITY.pdf

[davidbfpo]

John Simpson, the BBC's senior foriegn reporter, has been in the Crimea and has a report. I expect a longer TV report will appear soon. Nothing startling:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31869747

[mirhond]

Ukrainian oligarch Igor Kolomoisky, once proud prince of Dnepropetrovskaia obl., master of a personal army - "Dnepr" batallion, have fled Ukraine after his goons lost the ground in the war on property against oligarch #1 P. Poroshenko.

https://www.kyivpost.com/opinion/op-ed/kolomoisky-has-been-too-powerful-384564.html?flavour=full

[kaur]

Felix, nice avatar :)

[mirhond]

Ukrainian democracy at work:

http://divannaya-sotnya.com.ua/protest/8-rokv-uvyaznennya-za-rozrvaniy-portret-cinchnogo-kondtera-ce-v-chotiri-razi-blshe-dvoh-rokv-za-graft-ovoscha-z-bnd-u-lob.html


До 8-ми років ув`язнення за розірваний портрет Порошенка загрожує громадському активісту Юрію Хорту, який 6 грудня, під час протестів у Вінниці привселюдно розірвав портрет нинішнього Президента України, Петра Порошенка.

An activist might go to jail for 8 years for tearing down a portrait of Poroshenko in the public.

[mirhond]

Journalist assasinated in Kiev
http://ru.tsn.ua/foto/poyavilis-pervye-detalnye-foto-s-mesta-ubiystva-olesya-buziny-18-420984.html

Oles' Buzina, opposition journalist and blatantly pro-Russian writer shot dead near his home 16 Apr. One might think that sindle dead journalist does not make much difference, but, according to internet lore he was in the list of "Enemies of the Ukrainian people"

https://psb4ukr.org/criminal/

along with several other now dead guys considered to be enemies of the state. I failed to find him in the list, but other executed "enemy"

http://ru.tsn.ua/kyiv/v-kieve-ubili-eks-deputata-ot-partii-regionov-kalashnikova-smi-420796.html

- Kalashikov Igor Ivanovich, anty-Maidan activist and former member of "Regions party", who have been shot just one day before Buzina, is right there

https://psb4ukr.org/criminal/kalashnikov-oleg-ivanovich/

Some entries are wery informative and tell everything about a person, like adress, phone, net profile, jobs and so on.
Looks like vigilante firing squads know the drill well.

[OUTLAW 09]

Journalist assasinated in Kiev
http://ru.tsn.ua/foto/poyavilis-pervye-detalnye-foto-s-mesta-ubiystva-olesya-buziny-18-420984.html

Oles' Buzina, opposition journalist and blatantly pro-Russian writer shot dead near his home 16 Apr. One might think that sindle dead journalist does not make much difference, but, according to internet lore he was in the list of "Enemies of the Ukrainian people"

https://psb4ukr.org/criminal/

along with several other now dead guys considered to be enemies of the state. I failed to find him in the list, but other executed "enemy"

http://ru.tsn.ua/kyiv/v-kieve-ubili-eks-deputata-ot-partii-regionov-kalashnikova-smi-420796.html

- Kalashikov Igor Ivanovich, anty-Maidan activist and former member of "Regions party", who have been shot just one day before Buzina, is right there

https://psb4ukr.org/criminal/kalashnikov-oleg-ivanovich/

Some entries are wery informative and tell everything about a person, like adress, phone, net profile, jobs and so on.
Looks like vigilante firing squads know the drill well.


come on mirhond it is just the GRU "cleaning up loose ends" and even you know that-----when there is no one from the past to talk then who can complain it was Russia behind the Maidan killings---right--surprised Girkin is still alive and well these days

[OUTLAW 09]

I believe Enlish isn't your native tongue, and Aristotelian logic is not your forte, otherwise I can't explain what part of "blatantly pro-Russian" phrase you do not understand or how do you came to your outlandish conclusions.

comrade mirhond--again another pure example of writing before one really reads the single simple statement I wrote but then again you have been doing that since the shot down of MH17 and always wrong especially when you supported the "rights of religious Cossacks" to loot the bodies of the passengers-right?

think about it--the former proRussian Ukrainian President who fled his own country without even telling the Party of Regions or Moscow--remember he fled and was not overthrown AND even his own party voted to remove him but hey it was a "junta takeover right"?

AND he fled with 27 kilos of gold, 150MILLION in US 100 dollar bills and 30BILLION USDs is missing from the Ukrainian national budget and the recently received Russian loan of 3B--he committed one of the greatest thefts at the national level of any country in history outside of Russia would you not agree??

hey mirhond I would flee to would not you??.

NOW it is strange that all those associated directly to and directly under him are somehow committing suicide????

NOW who is tying up loose ends---the GRU or Ukrainians that would rather put them in front of a court and in jail for years??

think about it before you respond next time and use your spell check

[mirhond]

I'am digging deeper in the "Traitors and enemies list"
this particular entry is wonderful:

https://psb4ukr.org/criminal/maslova-olga-viktorovna/

Maslova Olga Viktorovna, member of a volunteer organisation "Piblic kitchen", rebels helpmate.

Possibly hundreds of entries are copy-pasted from Minisry of Internal Affairs site, like this one:
https://psb4ukr.org/criminal/pytel-olga-semenovna/

original entry from MIA site:
http://mvs.gov.ua/mvs/control/investigation/card/wantedPerson?ID=51292260



Регіон (орган внутрішніх справ): УВД Г.Б-ДНЕСТРОВСКА ОДЕССКОЙ ОБЛ.
Категорія: ОСОБА, ЯКА ПЕРЕХОВУЄТЬСЯ ВІД ОРГАНІВ ДОСУДОВОГО РОЗСЛІДУВАННЯ
Прізвище: ПЫТЕЛЬ
Ім'я: ОЛЬГА
По батькові: СЕМЕНОВНА
Дата народження: 11.05.1963
Стать : Ж
Стаття звинувачення: СТ.190 Ч.3
Запобіжний захід: ПОСТАНОВА СУДУ ПРО ДОЗВІЛ НА ЗАТРИМАННЯ З МЕТОЮ ПРИВОДУ
Місце зникнення: ОДЕССКАЯ, Б.-ДНЕСТРОВСКИЙ
Дата зникнення: 20.03.2008

Pytel Olga Semenovna, accused for a large scale fraud.

Dissidents also mentioned:

https://psb4ukr.org/criminal/zagulskaya-olga-bogdanovna/


Сепаратистка. Провокаторша.
Работает преподавателем в Львовском национальном университете им. И.Франко, ведет открыто пропагандистскую деятельность, публично поддерживает т.н. «ДНР» и «ЛНР»

Zagulskaya Olga Bogdanovna, Separatist, provocator, rebels supporter. Instructor in the L'vov Univercity. (Enemies are deeply rooted in Ukrainian society, as you see, much work must be done)

Rebels girlfriends are also considered enemies of the people, that's completely natural:
https://psb4ukr.org/criminal/cygankova-olga/

What a revolutionary fervour! Society must be cleansed of any suspicious and unhealthy elements - that's a real bolshevik's stile!
Felix Ferreus probat.

Some real enemies are listed also:
https://psb4ukr.org/criminal/kulygina-olga-ivanovna/

Kulygina Ol'ga Ivanovna - scientist, jornalist and FSB agent, get caught and later exchanged for 17 Ukr. POWs.

ps. All females are Olga's - that's because I've searched by name for particular Ol'ga.

[mirhond]

nation moves from Communism to the rule of law and good governance.


Question or Text removed by Mod. but this part of your post worth an answer:

World Rule of Law Index:
http://data.worldjusticeproject.org/#table
Ukraine: 68
Russia 80
Denmark 1
US 19

World Freedom of Speech Index:
http://en.rsf.org/index2014/en-eastern-europe.php

(annual change)
Ukraine 127 (-1)
Russia 148 (0)
Finland 1 (0)
US 46 (-14)

[kaur]

mirhond, about hit lists. I'd like to remind you one episode from Zolotov's life. Zolotov is today head of Russia's interior troops.


Two chiefs of Vladimir Putin's Federal Protection Service (FSO), Viktor Zolotov and General Murov, discussed how to kill the former director of Yeltsin's administration Alexander Voloshin.[17] They also made "a list of politicians and other influential Muscovites whom they would need to assassinate to give Putin unchecked power". However since the list was very long, Zolotov allegedly announced, "There are too many. It's too many to kill - even for us." An SVR officer who told about that story felt "uneasy" because FSO includes twenty thousand troops and controls the "black box" that can be used in the event of nuclear war.[1]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Tretyakov_(intelligence_officer)

Jamestown has review of his troops exercise "Zaslon" that took place this mont.

http://www.jamestown.org/programs/edm/single/?tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=43771&cHash=a8d4f417a994e859374c2762cbbd664b#.VTN4mHBXer U

About Nemtsov killing. Like Putin said 3 days ago FSB and MVD found out identity of hitmen in period of 24 to 36h. Who ordered killing? All tracks are going to Chechnya ...


Как идёт следствие? Могу вам сказать, что буквально через день, полтора, может быть, максимум, следователям и ФСБ, и МВД уже были известны имена исполнителей. Вопрос был только в том, где и как их арестовать.

[OUTLAW 09]

Question or Text removed by Mod. part of your post worth an answer:

World Rule of Law Index:
http://data.worldjusticeproject.org/#table
Ukraine: 68
Russia 80
Denmark 1
US 19

World Freedom of Speech Index:
http://en.rsf.org/index2014/en-eastern-europe.php

(annual change)
Ukraine 127 (-1)
Russia 148 (0)
Finland 1 (0)
US 46 (-14)
Question or Text removed by Mod.

http://khpg.org/index.php?id=1429388088

Who wants to turn Kyiv into another Donetsk?18.04.15 | Halya Coynash


версія для друку »

While the western media present any talk of Russian involvement in recent high-profile killings as the ‘Kyiv version’, like the ‘Kremlin version’ of Boris Nemtsov’s murder, it is by no means only Ukrainian politicians who are expressing concerns which, if warranted, would have seriously frightening implications.

The question in the title was asked by prominent journalist Denis Kazansky in considering who might be behind the murder of journalist Oles Buzina and politician Oleh Kalashnikov in Kyiv last week. The same thought was expressed most starkly by Telekritika Chief Editor Natalya Ligacheva who called the murders “descent into horror and chaos. Everybody was preparing for the renewal of military action by Russia in Donbas, ”, she says, “but the horror came to Kyiv. You get the impression that a pantheon of “victims of the bloody Kyiv junta’ is being created.”

The killings have been very widely reported in the world media. Some even report the suggestion that Russia could be behind them, but call this the Kyiv government’s version. Like the Moscow version and the treatment by pro-Kremlin media of the killing in February of Kremlin critic Boris Nemtsov.

Answers are few, but the suspicions are by no means only aired by Ukrainian politicians. If any part of them is justified, then it is not only individual pro-Russian politicians or journalists who have very real grounds for concern.

Oleh Kalashnikov had largely slipped out of the public eye after well-deserved notoriety in 2010 when, as a ruling Party of the Regions MP, he attacked a woman journalist, then later because of his role in organizing the titushki or paid thugs used by the regime of ex-President Viktor Yanukovych. Oles Buzina was certainly well-known in Ukraine for his very strongly anti-Ukrainian position and a particularly scandalous work about the Ukrainian poet Taras Shevchenko, but more recently, aside from a very brief spell as Chief Editor of Segodnya, he was much more visible in Moscow because of the frequent interviews he gave.

The two men were both shot dead within around 12 hours of each other. Buzina was murdered in the early afternoon of April 16 during Russian President Vladimir Putin’s televised phone-in interview. Vitaly Sych, Chief Editor of New Times [Novoye Vremya] was also asked for his reaction to the killings. He pointed out that “Russian President Vladimir Putin wasn’t surprised for a second during a live broadcast when he was informed that famous journalist Oles Buzina had been killed in Kyiv. He immediately began talking about how all Russians of course know Buzina, etc. And he was informed virtually instantaneously. Here we were sitting and not wanting to publish the news without confirmation. The confirmation had come literally 10 minutes earlier, yet Putin was immediately informed in a live broadcast with no question as to whether he should be told”.

Another report says that 23 minutes had elapsed since the first report by the Ukrainian news agency. Still not a lot given the amount of misinformation being circulated at the moment in both Ukraine and Russia, and the understandable fear Russian officials would have felt at misleading their President..

In the early hours of Friday morning, letters were received by political analyst Volodymyr Fesenko and the Opposition Bloc [made up of former members of Yanukovych’s Party of the Regions]. A group calling itself the Ukrainian Insurgent Army [UPA] claimed responsibility not only for the killings of Kalashnikov and Buzina, but also for the deaths of former Yanukovych associates Mykhailo Chechetov, Oleksandr Peklushenko and Stanislav Melnyk. The police have stated that all three men committed suicide, and at least in Chechetov’s case his apparent suicide note had been made public. The Opposition Bloc held a press conference later on Friday regarding the threats and the statement in the letter that the MPs had 72 hours to leave the country.

They say that the anonymous email also threatens to begin killing members of the government “who have not brought in martial law, have not declared war with Russia and have not broken off diplomatic and trading relations with the occupier”.

Ukraine’s SBU [Security Service] has called the letter a fake, pointing to the Russian turns of phrases in the letter which would certainly be strange from an extreme nationalist Ukrainian organization, and to various other discrepancies.

Fesenko himself wrote that some of the ‘proof’ of their involvement given in the letter simply strengthens his suspicion that the Russian Security Service could be behind the killings – even if the direct killers had no idea that they were being used.

None of this would be new. There were strong suspicions about the uses being made of various right-wing parties under the Yanukovych regime, as well as how much some, like the leaders of the ‘Svoboda’ party were collaborating for their own ends.

Claims that there had been warnings a month earlier about an attempt on Buzina’s life have been criticized by Anton Shekhovtsov, a researcher into right-wing movements, who believes the texts cited as proof of this in fact emerged after the killing. He also points out that he had heard of a marginal group calling itself UPA in 2014.

The existence of such a group would not necessarily explain the professionalism with which two well-known figures were gunned down in Ukraine’s capital city, Buzina in broad daylight. If the group really was behind all five deaths, then why were the first three presented as suicides?

It would also not explain certain other aspects of the killings put most cogently by Denis Kazansky, Chief Editor of Fourth Power.

“Buzina’s murder is virtually a carbon copy of Boris Nemtsov’s murder. And in my opinion the motive is clear – to have a mirror image of a high-profile political killing in Ukraine which you can wave about to the world.

An opposition figure was killed during the day in the centre of the capital of our country? You also had an opposition figure killed in the centre of the capital.

We have repression? So do you.

In our country the killing was from a car with Chechen number plates? In your country it was from a car with Lithuanian number plates.

You don’t believe that Nemtsov was a ‘sacrificial lamb’? Then don’t say that Buzina was such.”

Kazansky was giving his point of view within an hour or so of the killing. He said then that he did not believe that Buzina had been killed by nationalists, and even less for his anti-Maidan position. Buzina had irritated people for more than 10 years, he added. If anybody was going to kill him it would have been for his book on Shevchenko.

In the above-mentioned article ‘Who has an interest in turning Kyiv into Donetsk?’, Kazansky considers three versions: he repeats his initial scepticism regarding the radical group version then considers two other possibilities.

The second is ‘the Kremlin’ which he calls a collective concept including Chechen leader and Putin protégé Ramzan Kadyrov; the so-called ‘Donetsk and Luhansk people’s republics’ “and all other Kremlin tentacles. The Kremlin has any number of motives. Destabilisation of the situation in Ukraine; mirroring commissioned political murders in Russia itself; blackening the country’s leaders; and propping up the propaganda myth about the terrible Kyiv fascists. Or, most likely, all of these together.”

He notes the reactions, for example, from Kremlin-backed militant leader Alexander Zakharchenko, that seem to have been prepared in advance. Zakharchenko’s prediction of more killings, he says, raises the question of whether maybe Zakharchenko is planning to carry them out.

He calls the third version the most ‘exotic’ but worthy of being heard. This is that the murders would be useful to the Party of the Regions who could thus raise the rating of pro-Kremlin forces and mobilize their electorate for the local elections due in 2015.

The trouble with such plans is that, even if we assume that people are capable of such a terrifying disregard for human life, the supposed increase in popularity is hard to see as the only possible way the situation could develop.

There have been stern calls for a proper investigation into these killings. How adequately Ukraine’s leaders deal with this task remains to be seen, but on this occasion there can be no excuse for lack of political will.

There is one conclusion which Kazansky presents as irrefutable.

“Whoever killed Kalashnikov and Buzina hurt first and foremost Ukraine. Whoever the slain were, their death has brought the country no benefit because bloody corpses on the street do not enhance any world city, and most definitely not European Kyiv”.

That indeed is not in question.

[mirhond]

Text removed by Mod.

[kaur]

Dear mirhond, take a look at your enemies and traitors list post. Just for you couple Kremlin orchestrated versions in Russian about Nemtsov killers.

http://www.pravda.ru/news/accidents/factor/crime/08-04-2015/1255533-nemcov-0/

http://izvestia.ru/news/583616#ixzz3TJ6jKhcX

https://versia.ru/ochevidicu-ubijstva-borisa-nemcova-zaverboval-shef-sbu-nalivajchenko

[OUTLAW 09]

Text removed by Mod.

[OUTLAW 09]

Question removed by Mod.

http://windowoneurasia2.blogspot.de/2015/04/russian-who-went-to-fight-in-donbas.html

Sunday, April 19, 2015

Russian Who Went to Fight in Donbas Says He was ‘Not in an Army but in a Criminal Band’

Paul Goble


Staunton, April 19 – Bondo Dorovskikh, a Russian businessman, volunteered to go to Ukraine to “fight fascism” and defend “the Russian idea;” but he says he rapidly discovered the situation in the Donbas was not as he had been led to expect and that he had been enrolled “not in an army but in a criminal band.”

His testimony on this point, given in a 3,000-word interview with Radio Liberty, provides both a frightening glimpse into the world of the pro-Moscow statelets in southeastern Ukraine and an encouraging indication that ever more Russians are appalled not only by what officials there are doing but also by what Moscow is saying (svoboda.org/content/article/26963666.html).

“I really thought,” Dorovskikh said, “that Russia was in danger, that mercenaries were fighting there and trying to seize our country, that the Donbas is Russia’s advance post where we must stand and defend our interests. Only having crossed the border did we see literally within the first five minutes” that this was not the case.

Russian television exerted a powerful influence on him, the former volunteer says. Had it not presented its version of reality, he would never have thought of going to the Donbas to fight. Now, he said, he recognizes how distorted an account it offered and offers about events in Ukraine.

His recruitment to the Donbas cause was simple; indeed, he said he was shocked that there was no more checking about the people who signed up than there was. “More than that, there were cases when someone with a Xerox copy of documents” but not the real ones crossed the border.” Once in the Donbas itself, no one asked more than one’s name.

The organizers handed out guns without any particular checking of the abilities of those to whom they were given, Dorovskikh continued. They handed out the guns only on Ukrainian territory, but the division of volunteers into the various forces such as the Specter Brigade into which he went took place in Russia, in Rostov oblast.

In that brigade,he said there were “several Russian cadres officers, but most of the band members were local people, with only ten to 30 percent consisting of volunteers from Russia. Some of the band members sold their weapons for cash; others apparently used them for the same end. But still others seemed very interested in learning how to fight.

Neither the hierarchies of the DNR or LNR were especially happy with independent battalions like the one he was in nor were the ordinary people in the areas in which they operated. One woman, for example, told Dorovskikh “We don’t need Putin; [and] we don’t want to be in Russia.”

Most of the people in his band, he continued, were indifferent to politics. Many of them had criminal backgrounds; and those that did devoted a great deal of time to searching out for former militiamen, perhaps for revenge. In all things, “they were far from politics” and were interested only in having an adventure or engaging in violence.

As far as the future is concerned, he said, “if Russia had not gotten involved, [the self-proclaimed republics] wouldn’t have happened. Russia is inclined to support this movement further and therefore the fighters will hold on for a long time yet.”

Dorovskikh said he “would advise people not to go to the Donbas. This is false patriotism. There is no Russia there. Instead, what is going on is real aggression. More than that, if you go, you will simply become part of a band.” Any volunteer would certainly not have anything to do with “defending the Motherland.”

Russians have been shown on television something that looks like the Great Fatherland War,” he said. But in reality, the conflict in Ukraine is “real aggression. We came to this territory, and the Russian authorities are supporting terror. If we hadn’t gone there, if Russia hadn’t gotten involved, there wouldn’t have been thousands of dead.”

“In general,” he concludes, “there wouldn’t have been any of this” in Ukraine.

[mirhond]

Dear mirhond, take a look at your enemies and traitors list post. Just for you couple Kremlin orchestrated versions in Russian about Nemtsov killers.


Question removed by Mod.

Meanwhile, spring draft company will probably be full of surprises:

http://www.0542.ua/news/797093


В Сумах продолжается призывная весенняя кампания. Правда, ее результаты уже сейчас печальные. По состоянию на 14 апреля, 90% призывников не явились в военкомат по повестке. Об этом сообщил военный комиссар г. Сумы Юрий Полоус.90% of the draftees in Sumy town (North-East of Ukraine) failed to report to duty in a recruitment office, commissar says.

[OUTLAW 09]

Text removed by Mod.

[OUTLAW 09]

Question removed by Mod.

Meanwhile, spring draft company will probably be full of surprises:

http://www.0542.ua/news/797093



90% of the draftees in Sumy town (North-East of Ukraine) failed to report to duty in a recruitment office, commissar says.


Sunday, April 19, 2015

Kremlin’s Five Top Lies Last Week about Ukraine
Paul Goble



Staunton, April 19 – As it has taken to doing, Kyiv’s “Delovaya stolitsa” newspaper publishes today a list of “the top five propagandistic myths, fakes and stupidities of the Kremlin” for the past week. Obviously, given the barrage of Moscow’s lies about Ukraine, these lists are highly selective, but they are also extremely instructive.

This week’s “TOP-5” list, compiled by Dmitry Bukovsky, contains the following items (dsnews.ua/politics/top-5-propagandistskih-mifov-feykov-i-glupostey-kremlya-19042015100000):

1. Aleksandr Zakharchenko, the Moscow-installed leader of the self-proclaimed DNR, repeated his claim that his “’forces’” are about to attack the Ukrainian city of Mariupol and said they would take it “without serious resistance” (bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-04-15/gunfire-in-donetsk-republic-as-leader-refuses-unity-with-ukraine). The DNR head has made this threat before, and his “’forces’” have found it hard to advance anywhere. They would certainly face resistance in Mariupol. The only reason this is a matter of concern is that it was reported by a Western news agency in an uncritical way.

2. The Moscow newspaper “Gazeta” reported that Greece’s defense minister had told journalists that “the Greek population in Crimea had been subject to attacks by the fascist government of Ukraine, and the presence of Russian forces became a defense for Greek families” (gazeta.ru/politics/2015/04/17_a_6643361.shtml). The Greek embassy in Kyiv says the minister never said that and that in any case there were no such problems. What is disturbing is that this made-up statement was carried by a ordinarily much-respected Moscow paper and may be taken on faith by its readers in Russia and elsewhere.

3. Igor Martynov, who heads the Russian occupation office in Donetsk, says that he plans to restore that “’capital of ‘the DNR’ to is former status as ‘the city of a million roses,’” something that he almost certainly cannot afford to do and a step that could only be taken if the regime shifted funds away from the people for this stunt (nahnews.org/206595-vlasti-donecka-zaseyut-gorod-millionami-roz/?utm_source=novoross&utm_medium=vk&utm_campaign=no voross). “The separatists have money,” Bukovsky says, “but not for the support of the poor.”

4. Despite claims by DNR officials, there have been no pitched battles between units of the Armed forces of Ukraine and Ukrainian “’volunteer’ punitive battalions,” a claim pro-Moscow groups have put out in the past in the hopes of provoking them or leading Kyiv to disarm and disband these units (voicesevas.ru/news/yugo-vostok/12286-nacgvardiya-otstrelivaet-ukrainskih-dobrovolcev.html).

5. And in a theme that Soviet and now Russian propagandists have not been able to resist, the ‘Russian Force” website has claimed that “’four American soldiers raped two [Ukrainian] underage girls” (tvzvezda.ru/news/vstrane_i_mire/content/201504170946-hpud.htm). The Russian site despite a complete lack of evidence reported that local people had protested and forced Ukrainian officials to investigate. The latter concluded, the Russian site says, that the Americans were guilty but could do nothing because of the soldiers’ supposed “full diplomatic immunity.”

[OUTLAW 09]

Question removed by Mod.


Saturday, April 18, 2015

Aid Can’t Reach Siberian Fire Victims Because All Transport ‘Being Used for the Donbas’

Paul Goble


Staunton, April 18 – In a clearer indication of Moscow’s priorities than Vladimir Putin’s speeches and of Russia’s difficulties at home than Moscow TV, St. Petersburg activists who have collected three tons of humanitarian aid for fire victims in Khakasia have been told by officials that there are no vehicles available because “everything is going for the Donbas.”

In a note posted on Kasparov.ru today, Yury Merezhko reports that the Vesna youth organization in the northern capital has on its own collected “about three tons of humanitarian assistance for those suffering from fires in Khakasia” but there is “no transport” available to get it there (kasparov.ru/material.php?id=5531E95BA111A).
No one in the group has the funds for moving so much aid 5,000 kilometers and so its members turned to the local office of the emergency situations ministry. They responded, he says, with the following words: “there are no machines. None at all. Everything is going for the Donbas. But we of course will think about what could be done.”

Merezhko says that he fully understands that the situation in the Donbas is not an easy one. “But. First of all,Khakasia is in fire right now, it is our country, and the Donbas all the same isn’t, however much some may want it to be.” Once again, history is being “repeated: Russia is helping “everyone except its own citizens.”

And there is a second reason for concern, he continues. If the emergency situations ministry is so strapped when it comes to transportation, what might happen in St. Petersburg if something terrible occurred there. Could the authorities respond? Or would then simply blame things on “opposition arsonists” and then do nothing.

“I don’t know what to do,” the activist says. “I have only one thought: to raise a stink in the media to bring this attention to the very top and perhaps at least the leadership of our city will remember than ‘we don’t sacrifice Russians’” – even if that is what appears to be going on in this and many other cases as well.

[davidbfpo]

The dispute between two regular contributors has reappeared in the last two days and two posts have been deleted (one at the author's request).

Been away the last few hours and recent posts do not add to the debate here. Yes, everyone has a point of view, many questions remain unanswered and there is a profusion of information available - which is not easily available to SWC readers.

In a moment I will edit or remove the posts to which I refer.

[mirhond]

Road police unit complains of doing infantry job:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?t=131&v=NF9GQSAin68

in short: entire police unit have been put to the frontline, without any armour or combat support for the crime of messing with paratroopers from L'vov, whom claimed to be plundering rich houses in Luganskaia settlement, which is situated near the frontline. Literally, donut eaters have been penalised for doing their job. :rolleyes:

[mirhond]

Another "enemy of the people"

https://psb4ukr.org/criminal/vasileva-arina/

https://psb4ukr.natocdn.work/2014/11/08.jpg


Вместе с матерью, Татьяной Васильевой, активно сотрудничает с террористами с момента захвата ими г. Краматорска. В настоящее время (осень 2014) находится в г. Донецк. С детства страдает болезнью Шляттера-Осгута и диффузным зобом.

Vasil'eva Arina, terrorists supporter, armed and deadly teenage girl with Osgood–Schlatter and Graves' disease.
She gives me shivers, thanks gawd Iam not her enemy, it would be the worst nightmare :D

upd 0
one more "enemy"

https://psb4ukr.org/criminal/?cf[name]=%D0%A8%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%B9&cf[country]=&cf[address]=&cf[phone]=&cf[desc]=

Shariy Anatoliy. his crime is Ukrainophobia

upd 1
Corection of a previous post: guys on video are not road police, but former members of paramilitary police batallion "Shakhtarsk" which has been disbanded last year for marauding and looting..

http://www.unian.net/politics/997124-batalon-shahtersk-rasformirovan-iz-za-maroderstva-avakov.html

but their top dog is still the same - already mentioned here before petty criminal Ruslan Abal'maz, who lost his illegal coal mining Geschaft to rebels.

[kaur]

mirhond, my friend, have you seen in Moscow streets Strelkov and Kozytsin, who as шестерки, set Donbas in fire? Strelkov gives lectures in Russian universities at the time, when Dutch police wants to ask questions from him about Boeing. Girl is just victim of activities of Putin-siloviki-Strelkov- Babai etc chain. I'm sad saying this. Did you read Dmitirev's report? All signs show that Putin and Co are just fooling you after the end of 2 trillion usd oil/gas boom during last 15 years.

[mirhond]

mirhond, my friend, have you seen in Moscow streets Strelkov and Kozytsin, who as шестерки, set Donbas in fire? Strelkov gives lectures in Russian universities at the time, when Dutch police wants to ask questions from him about Boeing. Girl is just victim of activities of Putin-siloviki-Strelkov- Babai etc chain. I'm sad saying this. Did you read Dmitirev's report? All signs show that Putin and Co are just fooling you after the end of 2 trillion usd oil/gas boom during last 15 years.

1. No I haven't and I don't care. Why should I, in the first place?
2. Putin is fooling me personally? Wow, I'am flattered by such an honor. Although, I'd like to read your explanation of a public "hit list" openly supported by Ukrainian government officials, like deputy and MIA counsellor Anton Gerashchenko:

http://www.unian.net/society/1029726-geraschenko-na-sayte-po-sboru-dannyih-o-teroristah-obrabotanyi-dannyie-o-9-tyisyachah-boevikov.html

ps. you are not my friend :p

[kaur]

mirhond, you are my firend. Take this like one sided love :D

You call this hit list, but this comment under your link says something different.


«Эти списки будут доказательством развязывания агрессивной войны Путиным на будущем Международном трибунале по преступлениям России в Украине», - добавил Антон Геращенко.

http://www.unian.net/society/1029726-geraschenko-na-sayte-po-sboru-dannyih-o-teroristah-obrabotanyi-dannyie-o-9-tyisyachah-boevikov.html


This list will be used as evidence in future international tirbunal of Russian crimes in Ukraine against Putin, who started aggressive war.

This is open source investigation.

[OUTLAW 09]

1. No I haven't and I don't care. Why should I, in the first place?
2. Putin is fooling me personally? Wow, I'am flattered by such an honor. Although, I'd like to read your explanation of a public "hit list" openly supported by Ukrainian government officials, like deputy and MIA counsellor Anton Gerashchenko:

http://www.unian.net/society/1029726-geraschenko-na-sayte-po-sboru-dannyih-o-teroristah-obrabotanyi-dannyie-o-9-tyisyachah-boevikov.html

ps. you are not my friend :p

comrade mirhond let us see the current price increases due to the sanctions that you are right now paying so in effect yes you are Putin's friend because he got your prices raised without even asking you.

meats, vegetables, fruit all now averaging between 32 and 54% more than before the sanctions--great going there Putin.

and oh your normal salaries are now 9% less and JUST how many Russian employees and workers of state enterprises have lost their jobs because of Putin's actions???? thousands mirhond

[OUTLAW 09]

1. No I haven't and I don't care. Why should I, in the first place?
2. Putin is fooling me personally? Wow, I'am flattered by such an honor. Although, I'd like to read your explanation of a public "hit list" openly supported by Ukrainian government officials, like deputy and MIA counsellor Anton Gerashchenko:

http://www.unian.net/society/1029726-geraschenko-na-sayte-po-sboru-dannyih-o-teroristah-obrabotanyi-dannyie-o-9-tyisyachah-boevikov.html

ps. you are not my friend :p

comrade mirhond--your "Cossack" friends seem to have gone into the "Donbas coal mining business--what no coal left for them in Russia??"--care to comment????

Epic video of Russian "volunteers" on "vacation" cleaning #Antratsyt controlled by #LPR from local Cossack "militia"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QA31FrHejy0 …

[mirhond]

mirhond, you are my firend. Take this like one sided love :D

You call this hit list, but this comment under your link says something different

This is open source investigation.

I actually borrowed this term from you, and thanks, it fits perfectly, because at least two guys from the list are now history.


comrade mirhond--your "Cossack" friends seem to have gone into the "Donbas coal mining business--what no coal left for them in Russia??"--care to comment????

Epic video of Russian "volunteers" on "vacation" cleaning #Antratsyt controlled by #LPR from local Cossack "militia"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QA31FrHejy0 …

Cool, I've never heard of those "Racoon" guys, they are probably doing good job cleansing Donbass from unreliable ragtag gangs. Or, may be they just remove competition, I don't care. What is clear - they are Orthodox freaks. One of the captured wears police insignia - if Racoons just shot him and dropped his corpse into a ditch - I like them.


comrade mirhond let us see the current price increases due to the sanctions that you are right now paying so in effect yes you are Putin's friend because he got your prices raised without even asking you.

What does it have to do with the topic? Ukraine: non-military aspects - in case you forgot where you are

[kaur]

mirhond, thanks for correcting me :)

[OUTLAW 09]

I actually borrowed this term from you, and thanks, it fits perfectly, because at least two guys from the list are now history.



Cool, I've never heard of those "Racoon" guys, they are probably doing good job cleansing Donbass from unreliable ragtag gangs. Or, may be they just remove competition, I don't care. What is clear - they are Orthodox freaks. One of the captured wears police insignia - if Racoons just shot him and dropped his corpse into a ditch - I like them.



What does it have to do with the topic? Ukraine: non-military aspects - in case you forgot where you are

Previous comments fit nicely for Ukraine non military as the sanctions are a non military response to Russian aggression against Crimea and eastern Ukraine --plan and simple

JUST as this does as it fits to the Russian propaganda being churned out daily in a non military fashion focused on the Ukraine and US

Did notice through the use of the term Nazi and junta against the Ukraine has tapered off for awhile but is back again.

BUT then what world is your cultural minister in these days???

First Russian annexed Crimea under the guise of "protecting ethnic Russians" who were being threatened by "Nazi's" and a "Nazi junta" which was supported by the US, AND then the same argument for eastern Ukraine.

THEN this month Russia holds a large Russian/European neo Nazi/radical right wing nationalist conference in St. Petersburg AND THEN this statement from the Russian Cultural Minister:

Seems Russia cannot figure out what it really is ideologically speaking--left, right, or "fascist". NOW it even supports Hitler!!

Medinsky: Molotov-Ribbentrop is far from “moral.” But in terms of protecting govt interests, it was an outstanding success.

Since when are Nazi's "protecting Russia???--great question mirhond maybe you can answer that one??

[OUTLAW 09]

comrade mirhond---care to comment as it appears that Russia is still "dictating" what Ukrainians can and or cannot do.

Last time I checked the Ukraine was a sovereign nation which can do as it wants to do regardless of what Russians assume they think Ukrainians "should be doing".

NOTICE ABSOLUTELY no mention of Russian mercenaries, Russian contract, vacationing or regular troops inside the Ukraine nor the countless rail shipments of weapons, fuel and munitions ALONG with Russian troops into the Ukraine.

Seems Lavrov "simply forgot that small problem"--but wait there are no Russians in the Ukraine they are all miners and truck drivers--forgot.

http://tass.ru/en/russia/790950?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=ITAR-TASS


Russia
April 22, 12:40 UTC+3

"We proceed from the understanding that Ukraine is our near neighbor and its people are fraternal," Russian Foreign Minister said

MOSCOW, April 22. /TASS/. Ukraine must remain united, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said in a live interview telecast by three radio stations on Wednesday.

"We proceed from the understanding that Ukraine is our near neighbor and its people are fraternal," Lavrov said. "We would like to see people on the other side of the border to whom we have a very friendly attitude live a good life. For that Ukraine must stay united."

"In order to keep Ukraine stable and friendly everybody should by all means avoid tearing it apart", Lavrov noted.

"For this the stubborn intention to preserve unitarianism and to push ahead with ukrainization must be dropped," he said.

"It is in our interests to not tear Ukraine apart, but to make it neutral in military-political terms," Lavrov said. "Its split will mean only one thing: NATO will go ahead with attempts to make Ukraine anti-Russian. We would like to see Ukraine united, but to stay united the commitment to decentralization must be honoured.".

[mirhond]

Seems Russia cannot figure out what it really is ideologically speaking--left, right, or "fascist". NOW it even supports Hitler!!


Post in in the appropriate topic, and I'll answer you. You need some wrighting discipline.

It's a free planet - any state has "right" to fu(k with neighbours ang get own balls rightfully kicked in response.

[OUTLAW 09]

Post in in the appropriate topic, and I'll answer you. You need some wrighting discipline.

It's a free planet - any state has "right" to fu(k with neighbours ang get own balls rightfully kicked in response.

you will not answer as you cannot answer--simple it is these days

[OUTLAW 09]

Post in in the appropriate topic, and I'll answer you. You need some wrighting discipline.

It's a free planet - any state has "right" to fu(k with neighbours ang get own balls rightfully kicked in response.

http://www.interpretermag.com/moscow...gengauer-says/

Moscow Can’t Afford Having Donbass Become a Frozen Conflict, Felgengauer Says

Paul Goble April 11, 2015


Staunton, April 11 – Moscow can’t afford having the Donbass become a frozen conflict with an unrecognized state like Transnistria or Nagorno-Karabakh: its economy cannot exist independently and its population is far beyond the capacity of the Russian state to subsidize for very long, according to Pavel Felgengauer.

The implications of the Moscow military analyst’s argument are that Moscow must seize more territory, force Kyiv or someone else to subsidize a population that the Russian government might try to keep under its control, or withdraw.

But Felgengauer himself explicitly says that because Moscow cannot afford to finance a frozen conflict in the Donbass, no one should count on that happening or on Moscow’s fulfillment of the Minsk accords. Instead, he says, it is “almost inevitable” that Moscow will “restart military operations.”

“If you believe Forbes, not long ago, it was proposed to Putin that he take the Donbass, but the Russian president said that he didn’t need it,” the analyst says, adding that he “believes that Putin really doesn’t need the Donbass in any form.”

“Half of the Donbass would not be able to exist independently,” Felgengauer continues. Its economy is in ruins, its agricultural base is too small, its infrastructure is incapable of allowing that to happen, and its population, more than ten times that of Karabakh or Transnistria, is too large for Moscow to finance.

[OUTLAW 09]

Post in in the appropriate topic, and I'll answer you. You need some wrighting discipline.

It's a free planet - any state has "right" to fu(k with neighbours ang get own balls rightfully kicked in response.

comrade mirhond--more non military:


Death Toll Rises to 29 in Khakasiya Fires; Amur Situation Worse with 12 New Fires http://bit.ly/1H87zdP pic.twitter.com/a3RnIM724W

http://windowoneurasia2.blogspot.de/...e-victims.html

Saturday, April 18, 2015

Aid Can’t Reach Siberian Fire Victims Because All Transport ‘Being Used for the Donbas’

Paul Goble




Staunton, April 18 – In a clearer indication of Moscow’s priorities than Vladimir Putin’s speeches and of Russia’s difficulties at home than Moscow TV, St. Petersburg activists who have collected three tons of humanitarian aid for fire victims in Khakasia have been told by officials that there are no vehicles available because “everything is going for the Donbas.”

In a note posted on Kasparov.ru today, Yury Merezhko reports that the Vesna youth organization in the northern capital has on its own collected “about three tons of humanitarian assistance for those suffering from fires in Khakasia” but there is “no transport” available to get it there (kasparov.ru/material.php?id=5531E95BA111A).
No one in the group has the funds for moving so much aid 5,000 kilometers and so its members turned to the local office of the emergency situations ministry. They responded, he says, with the following words: “there are no machines. None at all. Everything is going for the Donbas. But we of course will think about what could be done.”

Merezhko says that he fully understands that the situation in the Donbas is not an easy one. “But. First of all,Khakasia is in fire right now, it is our country, and the Donbas all the same isn’t, however much some may want it to be.” Once again, history is being “repeated: Russia is helping “everyone except its own citizens.”

And there is a second reason for concern, he continues. If the emergency situations ministry is so strapped when it comes to transportation, what might happen in St. Petersburg if something terrible occurred there. Could the authorities respond? Or would then simply blame things on “opposition arsonists” and then do nothing.

“I don’t know what to do,” the activist says. “I have only one thought: to raise a stink in the media to bring this attention to the very top and perhaps at least the leadership of our city will remember than ‘we don’t sacrifice Russians’” – even if that is what appears to be going on in this and many other cases as well.

[OUTLAW 09]

Post in in the appropriate topic, and I'll answer you. You need some wrighting discipline.

It's a free planet - any state has "right" to fu(k with neighbours ang get own balls rightfully kicked in response.

and another "non military" that applies fully to the Ukraine and the Baltics by the way--

http://windowoneurasia2.blogspot.de/2015/04/putin-needs-both-great-victo...

Tuesday, April 21, 2015

Putin Needs Both Great Victory and Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, Ikhlov Says

Paul Goble


Staunton, April 21 – Vladimir Putin finds himself caught in a variety of paradoxes none more glaring than his simultaneous need to defend the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact by which the USSR became an ally of Nazi Germany and his need to celebrate the Great Victory over the Third Reich, according to Yevgeny Ikhlov.

On the on the one hand, the Moscow commentator says, Putin needs the Great Victory because it completes the shift from a focus on communism as the explanation for the Soviet Union’s win to one on Stalin and his totalitarian system as the source of that triumph (vestnikcivitas.ru/pbls/3741).

And on the other “and at the same time,” the Kremlin leader is prepared to defend with “all the authority of the Russian state” Stalin’s alliance with Hitler which is “delicately called ‘the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact’” because “that pact for the first time legalized zones of Soviet influence” beyond the borders of the USSR and based on “continuity” with the Russian Empire.

This is just one of the insights contained in Ikhlov’s article about the importance of mythologizing the past in a country like Putin’s Russia, one where “the weaker the institutions in the state are, the stronger must be the all-embracing mythology.” Indeed, his system is based on the idea that “the picture propaganda provides of the world is the only reality for the population.”

Up to a point, this approach has served Putin well. It has “rooted Putinism in Russian political history.” But the problems begin when one tries to make that political history consistent, something that is virtually impossible without blatant falsification because various events point in so many contradictory and incompatible directions.

And that in turn means, Ikhlov says, that “the more improvisations are introduced into this renewed cult, the stricter will be the struggle to ‘defend history from distortions and falsifications’ … There are many countries which have introduced punishments for denial of crimes against humanity … but there are only a few which [like Russia today] are criminalizing the unmasking of historic crimes.”

The approaching celebration of Victory Day, of Russia’s attempt to take credit for the defeat of Nazism, highlights this “real schizophrenia” in Moscow’s position: “One should not call oneself the main victor over Hitlerism while being proud of the alliance with this same Hitlerism” at the start of Hitler’s war to “seize Europe.”

There is a logic in each of the narratives, Ikhlov argues, but trying to bring them together into a single narrative is “impossible,” because “to be at one and the same time an anti-fascist, an anti-communist, and an anti-liberal in the contemporary understanding of the ideological spectrum cannot be done.”

The only way it can be done, he suggests, is with “one’s own fascism,” or as Putin would put it “’the Russian world.’”

But there is a deeper paradox and problem for Putin, Ikhlov says. It consists of the fact that Russian history consists of a series of “hermetically sealed periods,” each of which engages in the denial of its predecessor, as the late philosopher Aleksandr Akhizer pointed out a generation ago.

That makes stability very difficult as does “the struggle of two competing directions” in each, “each of which offers mutually exclusively approaches to the overcoming of internal crises.” Typically, the leaders of a country must make a choice; Putin has been trying so far to avoid doing so.

“Putinism’s difficulties began when it ceased to be simply ‘velvet Pinochetism,’ a regime of authoritarian modernization and began to convert itself into ‘an oprichnina,’ into market Stalinism,” Ikhlov says. That violated a chief requirement of myths: a certain consistency in their internal logic.

According to the Moscow commentator, “isolationism and anti-Westernism require support in a messianic legend. But Orthodox fundamentalism remains too much an exotic phenomenon.” Moreover, it is dangerous because it contains within itself “a very strong anti-state attitude.”

Moreover, “all the misfortune of Putinism” is that doctrines like “Moscow is the Third Rome” have the effect of “denying development and transforming life into an uninterrupted waiting for the end of the world.”

That leaves Putin and Putinism with few options, Ikhlov argues. Indeed, the only one really available is the implementation of a 160-year-old tradition that was “aborted by Bolshevism – the development of right-wing fascism.”

During that period, he says, Russia has moved “along a totalitarian arc: from radical-left form in the shape of Bolshevism with a gradual falling away from utopian pseudo-Marxist ideas to the side of right-wing totalitarianism which recognizes and cultivates obscurantism, chauvinism and petty private property.”

This evolution, Ikhlov continues, has included “periods of black hundreds-style post-war Stalinism, the anti-market ‘left fascism’ of stagnation … and up to the current dawn of the Russian conservative revolution, the first conquests of which have already appeared in Crimea and ‘Novorossiya.’”

“The evolution of totalitarianism from communism to fascist was broken off only three times – during the five years of the New Economic Policy, the decade of the thaw, and the ingloriously just concluded liberal-perestroika thirty year period.” It is now resuming with full force and with all its contradictions in play.

[davidbfpo]

From Australia's Lowy Institute a rather damming book review on the EU's role in the crisis. A couple of tasters:
Though Brussels presented the ENP as nothing but altruism, idealism and geopolitical self-interest in fact coincided. But by playing the Ukrainian AA down as nothing more than a 'trade deal', the EU refused to acknowledge, let alone prepare for, any of its attendant risks. As policy towards a country as deeply fissured as Ukraine, it was a cruel gamble.
It was also wishful thinking when it came to Russia.Link:http://www.lowyinterpreter.org/post/2015/04/21/How-the-EU-inflamed-the-Ukraine-conflict.aspx?

It is a book from MIT Press and on the publisher's website has three reviews by Americans. Maybe those in Brussels have not read it.
Link:http://mitpress.mit.edu/books/conflict-ukraine

[kaur]

20 Questions for Those Who Back Putin’s Aggression in Ukraine. Mirhond as sole open pro-Russian here and good knowledge of surroundings in Russia, could you answer those questions. Please don't pick question and answer all from 1-20. Asking kindly.


“Why are Donetsk and Luhansk ‘Novorossiya,’ but when a passenger jet crashes in the this territory is instantly transformed into Ukraine?”

“Mercenary activity is a crime in Russia. Why don’t ‘the militia men’ who come from Russia and are paid not fall under this provision of the law?”

“The war is costing Ukraine several million dollars a day. It is logical to assume that it isn’t costing its opponent any less. Do you really think that Russia isn’t giving the so-called Novorossiya military and financial help?”

“Why is it that everywhere where the militias liberate, there is war? … Why are the so-called punitive operations only where there are ‘militias’?”

“Why must Ukraine hand over to band formations territories that legally belong to it? If the Ukrainian military doesn’t want to do this, does that make them punitive detachments?”

Given the number of times Vladimir Putin has changed his story on Crimea, “is it possible to believe him now when he asserts that there are no Russian forces in the Donbas? If so, then why?”

“How can one explain the fact” that Moscow has brought criminal charges against Russian citizens who are fighting for Ukraine but not against Russians who are fighting in Ukraine against the Ukrainian government?

Do you consider the use by the militias of civilians as human shields something deserving of respect?

How would you react if some American said as Igor Strelkov has that without an invasion, nothing much would have occurred?

The Russian defense ministry has promised to provide five million rubles to the families of soldiers who “have died at the Ukrainian border.” “Are you not interested in why [the details of their deaths] are being hidden from you?”

Given that Moscow disperses opposition meetings, how do you think Vladimir Putin would react if some group seized administration buildings and proclaimed the creation of its own statehood on Russian territory? : Would Putin take measures or perhaps sit down with the terrorists to negotiate” as he demands that Kyiv do?

“Why does every Ukrainian patriot, who wears Ukrainian symbols, sings the Ukrainian humn, supports the unity of his country and speaks against separatism automatically become a Banderite and fascist? Under what article of the criminal code?”

Are all pieces of evidence of the presence of Russian troops in Ukraine, even those offered by Russian soldiers, forgeries produced in the West?

“Comrade Putin frequently has declared that Russia is not a side in the conflict and that he personally respects and supports the territorial integrity of Ukraine. If that is really so, then why hasn’t Russia closed the border from its side so that volunteers (and not only they) from the Russian Federation do not have the opportunity to cross it in order to fight against the territorial integrity of Ukraine?”

The Russian government last August explained the appearance of Russian troops in Ukraine by saying that they had crossed the border by mistake. “Do you really believe this? What would be your reaction if NATO soldiers ‘accidently became confused’ somewhere near Vladivostok?”

“Why has Russia not once condemned the ‘Novorossiya’ militants and not once called ont hem to lay down their arms first? At the same time, officials of the Russian Federation have frequently called on Ukrainian soldiers to lay down their arms and leave the Ukrainian Donbas to the bandits. Why in all federal media is only one side given positive coverage?”

How do you explain the fact that the forces of the DNR and LNR, hard-pressed as they were last August, suddenly “opened a new front in the direction of Mariupol and seized Novoazovsk? Who did this in fact: the forces of ‘the militias,’ whom the Ukrainian army had successfully contained or Russian soldiers without uniform markings who supposedly weren’t there?”

Why does Belarus, so “close to Russia, support the territorial integrity of Ukraine and not agree with Putin’s imperialist plans? Why does Lukashenka, Putin’s ally in the Customs Union consider that there is no fascism as a mass phenomenon in Ukraine and say that it is necessary to destroy the militants fighting against Ukraine?”

Do you believe Russian officials when they say that 12 Pskov soldiers did not die fighting in Ukraine but rather “by chance” died from heart attacks, suicides and accidents all at the same time?

“What are the ‘Novorossiya’ militants fighting for and what is the use of what they are doing?”


http://windowoneurasia2.blogspot.be/2015/04/20-questions-for-those-who-back-putins.html

[mirhond]

"Azov" bat. crucify a rebel and set him on fire

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sXhDNTIUvg&app=desktop

They have not nailed his foots to the cross, for some reason.


you will not answer as you cannot answer--simple it is these days

Well, You didn't even tried.

Human beings are naturally inquisitive, so they often come up with questions about things they see or hear and often develop ideas (hypotheses) about why things are the way they are. The best hypotheses lead to predictions that can be tested in various ways, including making further observations

Do not hesitate to experiment and check your predictions, reality won't punish you for that :)

[OUTLAW 09]

"Azov" bat. crucify a rebel and set him on fire

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sXhDNTIUvg&app=desktop

They have not nailed his foots to the cross, for some reason.



Well, You didn't even tried.

Human beings are naturally inquisitive, so they often come up with questions about things they see or hear and often develop ideas (hypotheses) about why things are the way they are. The best hypotheses lead to predictions that can be tested in various ways, including making further observations

Do not hesitate to experiment and check your predictions, reality won't punish you for that :)

comrade mirhond you have got to get better at this if you want to improve--

the "so called" crucifixion video link you posted was IN FACT PROVEN AS A FAKE within twenty minutes of it's release by Life News by Ukrainian, UK and US social media open source analysts.

Life News or what we like to call "Lie News" carried the video only one time and then never repeated it nor was it repeated anywhere else on Russian media AS IT WAS A REALLY BAD FAKE and you cannot keep a propaganda news cycle going when all know it is a fake.

by the way you would have known if you research the concept of "fake crucifixion videos" that the Serbs were really good at that and used it in their killing/execution excesses in Bosnia.

so mirhond you really do need to get better at this----

BTW--the "fake video" comment of yours does not fit this thread as it was military and was being used against the Azov Regiment as military propaganda.

[OUTLAW 09]

"Azov" bat. crucify a rebel and set him on fire

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sXhDNTIUvg&app=desktop

They have not nailed his foots to the cross, for some reason.



Well, You didn't even tried.

Human beings are naturally inquisitive, so they often come up with questions about things they see or hear and often develop ideas (hypotheses) about why things are the way they are. The best hypotheses lead to predictions that can be tested in various ways, including making further observations

Do not hesitate to experiment and check your predictions, reality won't punish you for that :)

comrade mirhond--care to comment????

http://windowoneurasia2.blogspot.de/2015/04/kremlins-top-5-misrepresentations-about.html

Sunday, April 26, 2015

Kremlin’s ‘Top 5’ Misrepresentations about Ukraine This Week

Paul Goble

Staunton, April 26 – As he does each Sunday, Dmitry Bukovsky of Kyiv’s “Delovaya stolitsa” chooses from among the flood of Russian coverage about Ukraine “the top 5 propagandistic myths, fakes and stupidities” the Kremlin has committed over the course of the previous week (dsnews.ua/politics/top-5-propagandistskih-mifov-feykov-i-glupostey-kremlya-26042015110000).

His selection for the past seven days includes the following:

1. An effort by “Novorossiya” propagandists to claim that a Ukrainian sportswoman had devoted her victory to the “Donetsk Peoples Republic” fell flat when Kyiv officials point out that Ukraine is not affiliated with the athletic organization involved and that the individual who the Russians claimed had gone over to their side in fact had competed on a Russian team to begin with (novorossia.su/ru/node/17945).

2. Russian propagandists again accused Ukrainian soldiers of having “crucified” a pro-Moscow militant. But on the basis of the video the Russians distributed, Bukovsky says, “even Pontius Pilate would have cried ‘I don’t believe it!’” The whole thing was so clearly staged that the actors had to cut things off at the decisive moment lest one of their number be hurt. The link Bukovsky uses no longer works, possibly an indication that even the authors of this play decided it was too much.

3. Aleksandr Zakharchenko, the head of the self-proclaimed DNR, says that in order to counter what he calls “the methodical and intentional zombification” of Ukrainians, he and his colleagues are preparing “a cycle of broadcasts about what it fact is taking place in the Donbas” – as if, Bukovsky says, “the flood of refugees from the Donbas who have lost their jobs and apartments or had their possessions stolen by local bandits had somehow run out and we had nowhere to learn the truth.” The working title for these broadcasts is “Antidote,” the Kyiv journalist reports. “We are impatiently waiting for it.”

4. The DNR has announced plans to create “a Museum of the Achievements of the Republic” on the basis of one of the exhibition centers of Donetsk. The self-proclaimed republic’s culture ministry says it wants to show all the things that the DNR has achieved in the last year, but there is a problem: many of the things that had been on display before the militants got there have been looted (dan-news.info/ukraine/v-donecke-budet-sozdan-muzej-dostizhenij-dnr-minkult.html and www.ostro.org/general/criminal/news/466558/ (http://www.ostro.org/general/criminal/news/466558/)).

5. Russian outlets in occupied areas put out the story that Ukrainian military commanders were asking the officers of the militias to open fire on groups allied with the Ukrainians. According to pro-Moscow leaders, the reason was simple: the Ukrainians needed evidence that the militias and not Kyiv were violating the ceasefire (dan-news.info/defence/vsu-vyxodyat-po-otkrytym-kanalam-svyazi-na-oficerov-dnr-s-prosboj-otkryt-ogon-po-boevikam-azova-basurin.html).

[mirhond]

the "so called" crucifixion video link you posted was IN FACT PROVEN AS A FAKE within twenty minutes of it's release by Life News by Ukrainian, UK and US social media open source analysts.


Nothing but your words and argument from anonimous authority against a low quality video - there is always room for a reasonable doubt, let me think - I choose video.

[OUTLAW 09]

Nothing but your words and argument from anonimous authority against a low quality video - there is always room for a reasonable doubt, let me think - I choose video.

comrade mirhond--notice that you always state narratives???

yet never answer anything????

YET your support for the video is really really strange as it only played once and THEN disappeared from Russian media--wonder why???

because it was a really badly produced "fake"--third year theater students in high school could have produced a better product and yet this was the FSB??

[mirhond]

Ukraine’s military mobilization undermined by draft dodgers

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/ukraines-military-mobilization-undermined-by-draft-dodgers/2015/04/25/fc3a5818-d236-11e4-8b1e-274d670aa9c9_story.html


But those who shirk the call to duty — or go AWOL, as about 13,000 have — risk fines and years of jail time. In one recent case, a journalist speaking out publicly against the draft was charged with treason.

But that isn’t enough to scare many potential draftees from dodging.

“I would rather sit in prison for three years — and be fed and secure — than serve,” said Andrey, 26, a metal plant worker who was drafted in March. “After a whole year of this government, we still have to work for two days to buy a loaf of bread. I don’t want to go fight for that kind of government.”

[OUTLAW 09]

Ukraine’s military mobilization undermined by draft dodgers

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/ukraines-military-mobilization-undermined-by-draft-dodgers/2015/04/25/fc3a5818-d236-11e4-8b1e-274d670aa9c9_story.html

comrade mirhond you do realize this is the third attempt at the same narrative--can't find anything else???

thought you would still keep defending the poor quality video??

[mirhond]

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2015/0422/Walled-off-In-non-rebel-eastern-Ukraine-frustrations-with-Kiev-mount


"But by that time, we may have lost our industrial base. Ukraine had positions in aviation, space industry, and we were a big arms producer. All of it depended heavily on the Russian market. The way things are going, a one-time great industrial power is going to end up joining Europe as an agricultural country."

But Mr. Kirsch, the only member of the prime minister's party to get elected in the entire eastern Ukraine, says these industries are part of Russia's stranglehold on Ukraine, and they must be broken up and sold off so that smaller, independent businesses can grow amid their ruins.

"Deindustrialization is not the goal. The point is to make business profitable and efficient. The market will decide," he says. The huge and badly paid work forces of those dying factories, along with their corrupt managers, are holding Ukraine back, he says. Yes, it will be painful. "But the alternative, to leave everything as it was and remain friends with Russia, is much worse."

Perhaps for a liberal market proponent East Ukraine would be better looking like this:
http://i60.tinypic.com/oaakwp.jpg

[OUTLAW 09]

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2015/0422/Walled-off-In-non-rebel-eastern-Ukraine-frustrations-with-Kiev-mount



Perhaps for a liberal market proponent East Ukraine would be better looking like this:
http://i60.tinypic.com/oaakwp.jpg

comrade mirhond--you really do need to do your research---check this particular article which has information not really published before.

your core comment should have been WHO is exactly dependent on WHOM?

without critical military products that only the Ukraine produces Russia will never achieve their goal of a new Army by 2020.

http://ukraineatwar.blogspot.nl/2015/02/russia-needs-ukraine-to-fulfill-its.html

if the raw resources listed in the article are accurate the Ukraine has far more to offer the globe than does even Russia who is basically a raw resource delivery mechanism for the oil/gas markets.

do you not think that in the last 15 years and having earned 3 TILLION USDs on oil/gas that just maybe your country might be better developed and not have to rely on western companies building the factories???

BUT again out of that 3 TILLION USDs how much of it flowed into the pockets of Putin and your oligarchs???

BTW you did see recently the joint statement issued by Poland, Sweden and the Ukraine about forming a joint high tech R&D in the military area of electronics, weapon systems and aircraft --right???

[mirhond]

BUT again out of that 3 TILLION USDs how much of it flowed into the pockets of Putin and your oligarchs???

What does it have to do with Ukraine: non-military aspects ?



BTW you did see recently the joint statement issued by Poland, Sweden and the Ukraine about forming a joint high tech R&D in the military area of electronics, weapon systems and aircraft --right???

Well, Ukraine badly needs such cooperation - there is a post in a good militaty-related blog:
http://militarizm.livejournal.com/75190.html

it says that recently repaired Ukrainian Mi-24 choppers miss their most advanced equipment:

http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/militarizm/53794793/328747/328747_original.jpg
like target sight system, exhaust-heat shield, active jamming and have disfunctional guidance antenna radome.
It means Ukraine is struggling to keep airforce in a combat shape.

[OUTLAW 09]

What does it have to do with Ukraine: non-military aspects ?




Well, Ukraine badly needs such cooperation - there is a post in a good militaty-related blog:
http://militarizm.livejournal.com/75190.html

it says that recently repaired Ukrainian Mi-24 choppers miss their most advanced equipment:

http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/militarizm/53794793/328747/328747_original.jpg
like target sight system, exhaust-heat shield, active jamming and have disfunctional guidance antenna radome.
It means Ukraine is struggling to keep airforce in a combat shape.

comrade mirhond--you simply do not get it--if Putin had invested wisely into the Russian development, creating masses of GOOD paying jobs, worked with the EU to get you a "free visa" to the EU, and built solid relations based on recognizing international treaties and laws that he seems to now ignore--there would not even be a Ukraine non-military.

AND your cabbage prices which you import from Poland would not now be 50%higher.

but it seems you do not mind him and his oligarchs stealing 3 Tillion USDs.

noticed you failed to respond to the article on JUST HOW dependent Russia is on Ukrainian military products--let's see no engines for all of the Russian MI-8s, no gas turbine engines for the new Russian war ships--want me to go on???? oh and let's see on the raw resources side--no rare earth, and titanium for those new jets --how much does Russia purchase and or steal by low prices on deals done between so called Russian oligarchs for the Russian military which nets them massive earnings in Swiss/UK/Cyprus bank accounts???

all goes to Ukraine "non military" do you not think??

[davidbfpo]

The disorder a year ago in Odessa, with forty-eight dead (many in a fire), is a controversial episode and The Guardian has a comprehensive report. From the sub-title:
A year on from rioting and a fire in Odessa that left 48 pro-Russia activists dead, there are claims of complicity between police and activists across the divide
Link:http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/30/there-was-heroism-and-cruelty-on-both-sides-the-truth-behind-one-of-ukraines-deadliest-days

[mirhond]

1. your cabbage prices which you import from Poland would not now be 50%higher.

2. but it seems you do not mind him and his oligarchs stealing 3 Tillion USDs.

3. noticed you failed to respond to the article on JUST HOW dependent Russia is on Ukrainian military products--let's see no engines for all of the Russian MI-8s, no gas turbine engines for the new Russian war ships--want me to go on???? oh and let's see on the raw resources side--no rare earth, and titanium for those new jets --how much does Russia purchase and or steal by low prices on deals done between so called Russian oligarchs for the Russian military which nets them massive earnings in Swiss/UK/Cyprus bank accounts???

all goes to Ukraine "non military" do you not think??

1. Never heard about or see a cabbage from Poland.

2. What does this have to with Ukraine: non-military aspects ?

3. What article? Link, please.

Engines for helicopters:
http://www.klimov.ru/media/news/?ELEMENT_ID=577

Engines for ships:
http://www.prom-rus.com/show_img.php?imgid=49219
all Russian.
[Google translate to your rescue]

top 8 rare earths producing countries:
http://rareearthinvestingnews.com/20983-top-rare-earth-producing-countries-2013-usgs.html


titanium production, by counrty:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_titanium_production

Why don't you bother to check basic facts before writing such nonsense?

[OUTLAW 09]

1. Never heard about or see a cabbage from Poland.

2. What does this have to with Ukraine: non-military aspects ?

3. What article? Link, please. Remainder of your comment is bull$hit, as ever:

Engines for helicopters:
http://www.klimov.ru/media/news/?ELEMENT_ID=577

Engines for ships:
http://www.prom-rus.com/show_img.php?imgid=49219
all Russian.
[Google translate to your rescue]

top 8 rare earths producing countries:
http://rareearthinvestingnews.com/20983-top-rare-earth-producing-countries-2013-usgs.html


titanium production, by counrty:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_titanium_production

Why don't you bother to check basic facts before writing such nonsense?

an comrade mirhond---why is it you use Russian arguments with Russian articles and negative Russian fake internet articles and NEVER answer questions directed at you that are frrm other source--OTHER than Russian fake articles or narrative articles.

AND if you did not notice you always drive a "narrative" never a discussion--understand the why behind the "narrative" and one understands what the Russian military means by "information conflict".

think about it comrade mirhond--and by the way you were the one that stated many many comments ago that the sanctions would not drive your food prices higher--which they have and that comrade mirhond is "non military Ukraine"--it is all tied together.

Example--I give you a well researched dependence of the Russian military on Ukrainian products article and you give me articles that do not answer the research paper--ever wonder why???? I give you names and products you give me links that do not add to the research paper--waste of time do you not think but that is what a "narrative" is--always racing to another rat hole via a rat run all designed to go nowhere.

BTW--if you had done your research well and had been tracking social media YOU would have known that since the Russian army occupation of the Ukraine starting August 2014 factories tied to four of the Ukrainian companies listed in that report in the Russian occupied zone HAVE been totally dismantled and shipped back to Russia--four companies by the way that the Russian military depends on to fulfill their 2020 modernization program WHICH mirhond has been publicly printed in the Russian media.NOW the four dismantled factories were shipped to the tune of 112 long haul truck shipments back to Russia--do the research and you find the references or you can read the Ukrainian military thread as I track their dismantling. AT least Russia government sources has fully admitted to "stealing" one and rebuilding it in Russia.NOW let's not even get into the "theft" of Ukrainian coal and shipping it back to Russia AND then to only "sell" it back to the Ukraine--come on mirhond research the topic.

NOW if we take in early August 2014 at face value the public statements by two top Russian ministers--- meaning why would they lie---Russia would need 6-10 years to replace the products and or product designs they get from the Ukrainian military industrial complex.

SO comrade mirhond your attempt at a "narrative" simply is designed to distract from reality on the ground and in Russian minister statements

THAT comrade mirhond is Russian dependence on Ukrainian factories and companies.

answer the research paper and we can have a discussion otherwise it is a waste of time to follow just "your narratives".

[OUTLAW 09]

1. Never heard about or see a cabbage from Poland.

2. What does this have to with Ukraine: non-military aspects ?

3. What article? Link, please. Remainder of your comment is bull$hit, as ever:

Engines for helicopters:
http://www.klimov.ru/media/news/?ELEMENT_ID=577

Engines for ships:
http://www.prom-rus.com/show_img.php?imgid=49219
all Russian.
[Google translate to your rescue]

top 8 rare earths producing countries:
http://rareearthinvestingnews.com/20983-top-rare-earth-producing-countries-2013-usgs.html


titanium production, by counrty:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_titanium_production

Why don't you bother to check basic facts before writing such nonsense?


"Checking basic facts"

comrade mirhond--check the actual publicly available business contracts between the Russian oligarch owned State Enterprises and the Ukrainian oligarch owned State Enterprises in the area of raw resources being sold to Russia--all of them are in fact selling Ukrainian raw resource AT UNDER INTERNAIONAL MARKET PRICES--ever wonder why--ask yourself why is it that the former Eastern European countries that made up the Warsaw Pact seemed to be doing product and raw resource deals with the SU and now Russia AT UNDER MARKET VALUES?

Are they in business to make or lose money when dealing with the Soviet Union excuse me Russia???

NO not really their were and are still viewed as "economic vassals" for the delivery of cheap resources and or semi finished/finished goods to the "motherland"--nothing has changed even though Russia is now Russia not the Soviet Union--why is that???

let's get a discussion going just on that concept--not run down rat holes with your narratives.

[mirhond]

Paratroopers tried to disarm "Right Sector", says Yarosh, head of Sturmabteilung and Rada deputy.
http://korrespondent.net/ukraine/events/3509272-desantnyky-popytalys-razoruzhyt-podrazdelenye-pravoho-sektora-yarosh


"Наша база была блокирована без всяких предупреждений подразделениями десантников 25- и 95-й бригад, вместе с бронетехникой и тяжелым вооружением. Они остановили одну из наших машин, и потребовали от бойцов сдать оружие",

"Our base was blocked by armoured paras, they demanded to turn in our weapons".

Now Sturmabteilung activists threaten to burn down presidential administration for this transgression.
http://korrespondent.net/ukraine/3509481-pravyi-sektor-uhrozhaet-szhech-admynystratsyui-prezydenta


Правый сектор угрожает поджечь здание Администрации президента, если его требования не будут услышаны

Those guys need to put their $hit together.


.
1. think about it comrade mirhond--and by the way you were the one that stated many many comments ago that the sanctions would not drive your food prices higher--which they have and that comrade mirhond is "non military Ukraine"--it is all tied together.
2. Example--I give you a well researched dependence of the Russian military on Ukrainian products article and you give me articles that do not answer the research paper--ever wonder why????
3. NOW the four dismantled factories were shipped to the tune of 112 long haul truck shipments back to Russia--do the research and you find the references or you can read the Ukrainian military thread as I track their dismantling.
4. NOW if we take in early August 2014 at face value the public statements by two top Russian ministers--- meaning why would they lie---Russia would need 6-10 years to replace the products and or product designs they get from the Ukrainian military industrial complex.
5. THAT comrade mirhond is Russian dependence on Ukrainian factories and companies.


1. Quotation, please.
2. Nope, you didn't. At least 4 previous papers contain no relevant links in your posts.
3. Evidence, please. [Well, I believe in spoils of war.. but, just want to to be sure]
4. OK, if you say so. There is a difference between outright lie and bona fide delusion, though.
5. CAPITAL letters in bold do not necessarily make your statement true. ;)

[OUTLAW 09]

Paratroopers tried to disarm "Right Sector", says Yarosh, head of Sturmabteilung and Rada deputy.
http://korrespondent.net/ukraine/events/3509272-desantnyky-popytalys-razoruzhyt-podrazdelenye-pravoho-sektora-yarosh



"Our base was blocked by armoured paras, they demanded to turn in our weapons".

Now Sturmabteilung activists threaten to burn down presidential administration for this transgression.
http://korrespondent.net/ukraine/3509481-pravyi-sektor-uhrozhaet-szhech-admynystratsyui-prezydenta



Those guys need to put their $hit together.



1. Quotation, please.
2. Nope, you didn't. At least 4 previous papers contain no relevant links in your posts.
3. Evidence, please. [Well, I believe in spoils of war.. but, just want to to be sure]
4. OK, if you say so. There is a difference between outright lie and bona fide delusion, though.
5. CAPITAL letters in bold do not necessarily make your statement true. ;)

comrade mirhond---all you provide is all narratives--nothing really to respond to as narratives really mean nothing

is anything more that is coming that is substantive?? you do realize you were referring to Right Sector as a standalone volunteer BN while all other volunteer BNs have been incorporated into either the Ukrainian Army, Ukrainian MoI or the Ukrainian Border Security---right mirhond but it seems you missed that left turn in Ukrainian events??

BUT again you must have already known that the Right Sector BN Commander is a special advisor to the Chief of the Ukrainian General Staff- right mirhond???

you do realize that while they demonstrated this week with all kinds of signs behind the scenes they had already been accepted into the regular Ukrainian Army but that did not quite make the news cycle--right mirhond??

BUT now you have left the non military thread and have crossed into the military thread with your narratives.

you do see how the "narrative" distracts from reality right???

[OUTLAW 09]

Paratroopers tried to disarm "Right Sector", says Yarosh, head of Sturmabteilung and Rada deputy.
http://korrespondent.net/ukraine/events/3509272-desantnyky-popytalys-razoruzhyt-podrazdelenye-pravoho-sektora-yarosh



"Our base was blocked by armoured paras, they demanded to turn in our weapons".

Now Sturmabteilung activists threaten to burn down presidential administration for this transgression.
http://korrespondent.net/ukraine/3509481-pravyi-sektor-uhrozhaet-szhech-admynystratsyui-prezydenta



Those guys need to put their $hit together.



1. Quotation, please.
2. Nope, you didn't. At least 4 previous papers contain no relevant links in your posts.
3. Evidence, please. [Well, I believe in spoils of war.. but, just want to to be sure]
4. OK, if you say so. There is a difference between outright lie and bona fide delusion, though.
5. CAPITAL letters in bold do not necessarily make your statement true. ;)


comrade mirhond--care to comment on this??

Their separatist leaders are not always an easy bunch for Moscow to deal with. Rampant corruption only part of it.

https://meduza.io/en/news/2015/04/28/eastern-ukraine-separatist-leader-reportedly-arrested-in-russia …

[OUTLAW 09]

remember comrade mirhond I told you of thefts of complete Ukrainian factories and Ukrainian coal.

NOW they even steal large scrap metal from the damaged bridges and factories inside the Russian occupied zone and ship it back to Russia.

theft of scrap metal ---so is this the real reason Russia invaded the Ukraine???

so they destroy everything claiming to "defend ethnic Russian Ukrainians from Nazi's"--THEN steals from them--make sense to you??.

#Donetsk is cut for scrap metal on and on @evergreen_dn pic.twitter.com/WJ2z9f5403

AND that stolen coal from the Ukraine mirhond-----

#Donetsk @UrriKara4en Coal from Zasyadko coalmine is moved out just in 'caravans', Altkom trucks among others

[kaur]

Dear mirhond, week ago I did ask kindly to answer 20 short questions. I got no reply. Can we agree you have nothing to say?

Today Kremlin loyal national bolshevik Eduard Limonov, who writes regular comments in Izvestia newspaper, complains in his Facebook accont ,that there is harassing going on against Russian national bolsheviks in Donbas. He blames Surkov for this. Post is in Russian.

https://www.facebook.com/eduard.limonov/posts/755664614553872

[OUTLAW 09]

comrade mirhond--notice this Ukrainian plant--this particular part of the company was dismantled and shipped to Russia and check now what is being parked inside the empty factory buildings--ever wonder why the Russians needed this particular factory???--ask them you are in Moscow.

next time believe the open source media---

Pro-Russian separatists seize Privat's Stakhanov ferro-alloys plant
August 11, 2014 - 17:21 GMT Location: London

The Stakhanov ferro-alloys plant in Ukraine has been seized by pro-Russian separatists, Ukrainian and Russian media outlets have reported.

The plant was seized on August 8 and management and staff have been moved to nearby Zaporozhye, where another plant owned by the same group is located.

Russian tanks at Stakhanov Ferroalloy Plant http://liveuamap.com/en/2015/3-may-r...rroalloy-plant … pic.twitter.com/gSjNXgleZC

[mirhond]

Dear mirhond, week ago I did ask kindly to answer 20 short questions. I got no reply. Can we agree you have nothing to say?

Today Kremlin loyal national bolshevik Eduard Limonov, who writes regular comments in Izvestia newspaper, complains in his Facebook accont ,that there is harassing going on against Russian national bolsheviks in Donbas. He blames Surkov for this. Post is in Russian.

https://www.facebook.com/eduard.limonov/posts/755664614553872

OK, I got your list. [I've missed it because lengthy quotations formed a strong association with outlaw's posts in my mind, and I usually try to omit them, just for the time sake ;) ]
Most of the questions are rethorical and therefore do not need real answers:

Do you consider the use by the militias of civilians as human shields something deserving of respect?
some contain "alternative" logic:

“Why is it that everywhere where the militias liberate, there is war? … Why are the so-called punitive operations only where there are ‘militias’?”
some are just plain fallacies from Wikipedia's list:

“Why does every Ukrainian patriot, who wears Ukrainian symbols, sings the Ukrainian humn, supports the unity of his country and speaks against separatism automatically become a Banderite and fascist? Under what article of the criminal code?”
only the last question deserves straight answer - those guys in general fight for independence, plain and simple. You know Russian, you can read or hear this from themselves - why do you bother asking it?

[OUTLAW 09]

OK, I got your list. [I've missed it because lengthy quotations formed a strong association with outlaw's posts in my mind, and I usually try to omit them, just for the time sake ;) ]
Most of the questions are rethorical and therefore do not need real answers:

some contain "alternative" logic:

some are just plain fallacies from Wikipedia's list:

only the last question deserves straight answer - those guys in general fight for independence, plain and simple. You know Russian, you can read or hear this from themselves - why do you bother asking it?

let's see comrade mirhond---just narratives is all you talk about and or link to--you still failed to answer the questions--which actually are easy to answer but yet no answer except a narrative--strange is it not??

you see you divert all answers via "narratives" right mirhond??

[mirhond]

comrade mirhond--notice this Ukrainian plant--this particular part of the company was dismantled and shipped to Russia and check now what is being parked inside the empty factory buildings--ever wonder why the Russians needed this particular factory???--ask them you are in Moscow.

next time believe the open source media---

Pro-Russian separatists seize Privat's Stakhanov ferro-alloys plant
August 11, 2014 - 17:21 GMT Location: London

The Stakhanov ferro-alloys plant in Ukraine has been seized by pro-Russian separatists, Ukrainian and Russian media outlets have reported.

The plant was seized on August 8 and management and staff have been moved to nearby Zaporozhye, where another plant owned by the same group is located.

Russian tanks at Stakhanov Ferroalloy Plant http://liveuamap.com/en/2015/3-may-r...rroalloy-plant … pic.twitter.com/gSjNXgleZC

Time and again your links are broken. Newertheless, quick search brought no evidence that plant is dismantled - just admit you've invented this out of thin air. What is clear - plant is off-line and was somewhat regulary shelled by Ukranian military, as local media outlet claims:

http://www.ostro.org/lugansk/proisshestviya/news/459053/

В Стаханове в результате обстрелов разрушается бюджетообразующее предприятие Стахановский ферросплавный завод, а в Кировске - Центрокуз. Об этом ОстроВу сообщают местные жители.
Local say that major plant in Stakhanov is ruined by shelling.

[OUTLAW 09]

Time and again your links are broken. Newertheless, quick search brought no evidence that plant is dismantled - just admit you've invented this out of thin air. What is clear - plant is off-line and was somewhat regulary shelled by Ukranian military, as local media outlet claims:

http://www.ostro.org/lugansk/proisshestviya/news/459053/

Local say that major plant in Stakhanov is ruined by shelling.


"define local media"--by the way depending from where your workstation sets --assuming Russia either St. Petersburg or Moscow--the actual links are indeed broken. BTw mirhond you do realize that media links that are linked to Russian social media sites are "broken" by your own FSB once they have seen them used in western media--right mirhond?? thus speed is needed when following quoted Russian links or at least "saving it to server" the Russian VK pages.

they are fine from my location--you do realize that a number of Russian social media links from where the information comes from in the first place once seen by the FSB is immediately taken down and or "broken" right mirhond?--thus speed mirhond speed is needed when following events that are found inside Russian social media sites.

again comrade mirhond "define local media" --you thus declared that partuclar Russain tank in the picture as being "what a fatma Magana"??

come on-get off the "narratives"--"no plants in the Donbas have been dismantled" and all destroyed buildings and factories are the result of Ukrainians firing 150 tons of shells and rockets daily?--BUT wait the 150 tons I got wrong --they were fired by Russian artillery and MRLSs. BUT wait--all those videoed Russian Railway military trains arriving inside the Ukraine with artillery and MRLS munitions was wait "Ukrainian"??

comrade mirhond you do realize that open source crater analysis has indicated the Dontesk civilian building shellings of the last days came from Russian artillery--right mirhond??

notice something here??

#Putin says: "No Russian troops in #Ukraine", but tanks on parade in #Donetsk carry #Russia's Army official insignia. pic.twitter.com/e1eUDQRsZE

how can that be????

[OUTLAW 09]

Time and again your links are broken. Newertheless, quick search brought no evidence that plant is dismantled - just admit you've invented this out of thin air. What is clear - plant is off-line and was somewhat regulary shelled by Ukranian military, as local media outlet claims:

http://www.ostro.org/lugansk/proisshestviya/news/459053/

Local say that major plant in Stakhanov is ruined by shelling.

care to comment comrade mirhond--remember Putin and the Russian MoD at not now far from the Hague.

reference the shot down of MH17--remember that voice intercept taken concerning the actual shot down where the mercenaries thought they had shot down an Ukrainian plane.

SBU Alpha detained terrorist "Grek". One of the terrorists involved in downing #MH17. His voice was on the recording
http://podrobnosti.ua/2032699-sbu-zaderzhala-terrorista-iz-bandy-somali.html …

link works by the way==is Ukrainian link

[kaur]

Another version about Malaysian Boeing. Now Russian specialists talk about Ukrainian BUK SAM system. Among evidences are military satellite photos.

http://www.novayagazeta.ru/inquests/68332.html

What about Ukrainian airplanes now? Do you remember Spanish flight controller spainbuca? Etc.

Russian military version last July https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3F_lLg1Qyog
Russian weekly program last November http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=234_1416376718
Spainbuca https://www.facebook.com/TheSpainReport/posts/486469588164237

[OUTLAW 09]

"define local media"--by the way depending from where your workstation sets --assuming Russia either St. Petersburg or Moscow--the actual links are indeed broken. BTw mirhond you do realize that media links that are linked to Russian social media sites are "broken" by your own FSB once they have seen them used in western media--right mirhond?? thus speed is needed when following quoted Russian links or at least "saving it to server" the Russian VK pages.

they are fine from my location--you do realize that a number of Russian social media links from where the information comes from in the first place once seen by the FSB is immediately taken down and or "broken" right mirhond?--thus speed mirhond speed is needed when following events that are found inside Russian social media sites.

again comrade mirhond "define local media" --you thus declared that partuclar Russain tank in the picture as being "what a fatma Magana"??

come on-get off the "narratives"--"no plants in the Donbas have been dismantled" and all destroyed buildings and factories are the result of Ukrainians firing 150 tons of shells and rockets daily?--BUT wait the 150 tons I got wrong --they were fired by Russian artillery and MRLSs. BUT wait--all those videoed Russian Railway military trains arriving inside the Ukraine with artillery and MRLS munitions was wait "Ukrainian"??

comrade mirhond you do realize that open source crater analysis has indicated the Dontesk civilian building shellings of the last days came from Russian artillery--right mirhond??

notice something here??

#Putin says: "No Russian troops in #Ukraine", but tanks on parade in #Donetsk carry #Russia's Army official insignia. pic.twitter.com/e1eUDQRsZE

how can that be????

comrade mirhond--you must think through your comments as they tend to not make sense--so the Ukrainians shelled this factory--that means a Ukrainian artillery unit has the coordinates and would "possibly" shell it in the future if they knew Russian mercenaries "parked" their tanks there---and then Russian mercenaries park their tank there in "no fear of being shelled by anyone" since it was themselves that shelled the dismantled factory in the first place and now with the empty halls it makes a great hiding place in violation of Minsk 2.

check the "local media" and they will probably confirm my theory----

[OUTLAW 09]

Another version about Malaysian Boeing. Now Russian specialists talk about Ukrainian BUK SAM system. Among evidences are military satellite photos.

http://www.novayagazeta.ru/inquests/68332.html

What about Ukrainian airplanes now? Do you remember Spanish flight controller spainbuca? Etc.

Russian military version last July https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3F_lLg1Qyog
Russian weekly program last November http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=234_1416376718
Spainbuca https://www.facebook.com/TheSpainReport/posts/486469588164237



kaur--had this on the military thread yesterday----

More and more evidence is even "leaking out of Russia" concerning the shooting down of MH17--question is if individuals inside the Putin inner circle including the Russian Defense Minister end up being charged for the shot down--HOW will Russia respond??

Another interesting point is that this has been driven by social media open source analysts from the very beginning who were bascially from the start totally correct down to the exact Russian BUK per number that fired the misssile AND nothing was ever provided by any western intel agency--just how strange is that??

Novaya Gazeta posted leaked report by Russian engineers which proves that MH17 was shot down by BUK M-1 http://www.novayagazeta.ru/inquests/68332.html …

Published a report from Russian experts (not propaganda) that BUK downed #MH17.
Was fired from S. of v.Zaroshenskoe

Approximate coordinates where the BUK was fired: 2.5-3.5km radius, 47.979855, 38.448580

NOW watch the Russian media and their trolls "spin" the story back to the already debunked "it was an Ukrainian BUK"--taking online bets on exactly how long it takes them from the release of an evidently very accurate Russian analysis of the shot down????????

Interesting question is why was it released now??? After attempting to pin it on a Ukrainian ground attack fighter SU-25--maybe trying to get ahead of the Dutch investigation results and pending charges.

Social media is now starting to tear apart the Russian report and noticing problems which all now point to attempting to bending the narrative back to the Ukrainian BUK as being responsible for the shot down of MH17.

Isn't the firing position a long way away from the scorched field? and would also be on the wrong side of the plane to the damage

I am noob in SAMs, but from that village you can't approach the plane from the front. So more likely you right

With the Kremlin's admission that the SU-25 thing was always bunk, I mourn the end of Voloshin, the Spaniard, BBC witnesses, radar photos...

I was wrong. There will always be diehard fans of ole' SU-25 over Ukrainian Buk, like vinyl enthusiasts over CDs.
https://twitter.com/PorKoshenko/stat...70989419196416

kaur---BLUF-----the Russians have at least admitted it was a BUK that shot down MH17 since the Dutch all but proved that and now they are trying to get ahead of the Dutch AND blame the Ukrainians again as the Dutch are coming with official murder and crimes against humanity charges that could go as high as Putin himself or at the least the Russian MoD.

At least admitting it was a BUK is a step forward for Putin and company.

[OUTLAW 09]

kaur--had this on the military thread yesterday----

More and more evidence is even "leaking out of Russia" concerning the shooting down of MH17--question is if individuals inside the Putin inner circle including the Russian Defense Minister end up being charged for the shot down--HOW will Russia respond??

Another interesting point is that this has been driven by social media open source analysts from the very beginning who were bascially from the start totally correct down to the exact Russian BUK per number that fired the misssile AND nothing was ever provided by any western intel agency--just how strange is that??

Novaya Gazeta posted leaked report by Russian engineers which proves that MH17 was shot down by BUK M-1 http://www.novayagazeta.ru/inquests/68332.html …

Published a report from Russian experts (not propaganda) that BUK downed #MH17.
Was fired from S. of v.Zaroshenskoe

Approximate coordinates where the BUK was fired: 2.5-3.5km radius, 47.979855, 38.448580

NOW watch the Russian media and their trolls "spin" the story back to the already debunked "it was an Ukrainian BUK"--taking online bets on exactly how long it takes them from the release of an evidently very accurate Russian analysis of the shot down????????

Interesting question is why was it released now??? After attempting to pin it on a Ukrainian ground attack fighter SU-25--maybe trying to get ahead of the Dutch investigation results and pending charges.

Social media is now starting to tear apart the Russian report and noticing problems which all now point to attempting to bending the narrative back to the Ukrainian BUK as being responsible for the shot down of MH17.

Isn't the firing position a long way away from the scorched field? and would also be on the wrong side of the plane to the damage

I am noob in SAMs, but from that village you can't approach the plane from the front. So more likely you right

With the Kremlin's admission that the SU-25 thing was always bunk, I mourn the end of Voloshin, the Spaniard, BBC witnesses, radar photos...

I was wrong. There will always be diehard fans of ole' SU-25 over Ukrainian Buk, like vinyl enthusiasts over CDs.
https://twitter.com/PorKoshenko/stat...70989419196416

kaur---BLUF-----the Russians have at least admitted it was a BUK that shot down MH17 since the Dutch all but proved that and now they are trying to get ahead of the Dutch AND blame the Ukrainians again as the Dutch are coming with official murder and crimes against humanity charges that could go as high as Putin himself or at the least the Russian MoD.

At least admitting it was a BUK is a step forward for Putin and company.

kaur --even Sputnik is getting onboard--remember when the Russians made a big deal out of the Ukrainian pilot who "admitted" he knew who had shot down MH17--seems he kind of missed it.

Frontpage of todays Novaya Gazeta "It was the BUK-M1" #MH17 http://bit.ly/1JqbaTY @EliotHiggins pic.twitter.com/jbTqMesTYd

MH17 - Sputnik gets aboard the "It Was Actually A Buk All Along" train http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150506/1021764384.html …

[OUTLAW 09]

kaur --even Sputnik is getting onboard--remember when the Russians made a big deal out of the Ukrainian pilot who "admitted" he knew who had shot down MH17--seems he kind of missed it.

Frontpage of todays Novaya Gazeta "It was the BUK-M1" #MH17 http://bit.ly/1JqbaTY @EliotHiggins pic.twitter.com/jbTqMesTYd

MH17 - Sputnik gets aboard the "It Was Actually A Buk All Along" train http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150506/1021764384.html …

kaur--about 30 minutes after the Russian report hit the social media---bellingcat and others already questioned the validity of the missile launch site as being wrong and the angle of the fired missile was wrong and today it appears they were right.

So yes at least Russia admitted now to a BUK having been fired--BUT they have shifted back to the original Ukrainian alleged BUK as being responsible which was also debunked months ago.

What is interesting is to watch US media journalists parrot the Russian release and then in the same breath actually allude to "well just maybe" it could have been the Ukrainians. US journalists are getting rather sloppy with their work.


Eliot Higgins @EliotHiggins
Looks like there's more and more evidence that the claimed launch area in the leaked Russian MH17 report is false

Eliot Higgins @EliotHiggins
Russian engineers’ report on MH17 crash ‘based on fake photos from Russian General Staff’ http://www.unian.info/war/1075119-russian-engineers-report-on-mh17-crash-based-on-fake-photos-from-russian-general-staff.html

Russian aviation expert Lukashevich debunks MH17 "leaked expert report": damage patterns don't match presented claims http://www.buran.ru/MH17/ng.jpg

A little review of RU claims about #MH17. :-D pic.twitter.com/cVQduMCwd4

[kaur]

I'm not surprised. This cycle has been going on over a year. I'll be surprised if Putin admits that his people hit the plane, like he admitted lately that his men annexed Crimea.

[OUTLAW 09]

I'm not surprised. This cycle has been going on over a year. I'll be surprised if Putin admits that his people hit the plane, like he admitted lately that his men annexed Crimea.

kaur--you will recognize this UK journalist--note the date of his shot down comments--he was in the Ukraine with the mercenaries at the time of the shot down and was on the actual site filming a number of times.

3 Mar
Graham W Phillips @GrahamWP_UK
All rational #MH17 evidence points to the conclusion - the plane was shot down either by one, or two Ukrainian fighter jets.

[mirhond]

Canadian radio station about Anatoly Shariy,(runaway Ukrainian journalist who constantly makes fun of Ukrainian media scammers) an interview with him included:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQWhsZJ4bRk

Hilarious commentary at 2:50 "Is he a dissident voice or pro-Russian voice?"
as if being critical of current Ukrainian regime inevitably makes a person pro-Russian. What kind of political mindset makes such conclusion possible? Or is it just Western media bias and propaganda effect?:confused:

[OUTLAW 09]

Canadian radio station about Anatoly Shariy,(runaway Ukrainian journalist who constantly makes fun of Ukrainian media scammers) an interview with him included:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQWhsZJ4bRk

Hilarious commentary at 2:50 "Is he a dissident voice or pro-Russian voice?"
as if being critical of current Ukrainian regime inevitably makes a person pro-Russian. What kind of political mindset makes such conclusion possible? Or is it just Western media bias and propaganda effect?:confused:

comrade mirhond---noticed he was able to travel and park himself in a mainly pro Ukrainian country call Canada where one of the largest Ukrainian immigrant groups resides--how authentic is the critic if he sits nice and snug in a coffee shop in Canada--come on mirhond find a better "narrative"

BUT here though is a perfect example/better example of your ethnic Ukrainian Russian ie a "proRussian".

30yo. #Russia terrorist & war criminal "Motorola" wears more "medals" on #Donetsk parade than local #WW2 vets. https://twitter.com/search?q=pic.twitter.com%2FOZUcuS1XZG%20&src=typd

comrade mirhond--does it make sense to you that a Ukrainian WW2 vet who fought heavily and possible for years has far less medals than a known killer of POWs who has only fought for less than a year???--remember even he himself stated during a recently taped video interview that he had killed no less than 15 Ukrainian POWs--then he casually stated--"what is the problem with that" thus making himself a number one "war criminal" for the Hague.

find a better "narrative" mirhond --think about it.

BTW the photo link works and I have other photos from him yesterday on hand if you want to see them as well---

AND the "so called" leader of the proRussian DNR--almost fell off his reviewing stand during the Donetsk parade yesterday as he was so drunk--what a group of "proRussians"--all united by vodka and dreams of "war glory" since they had been before the war just normal bounce around handy men with no completed education nor profession.

wow what "political" leadership mirhond---

[OUTLAW 09]

Canadian radio station about Anatoly Shariy,(runaway Ukrainian journalist who constantly makes fun of Ukrainian media scammers) an interview with him included:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQWhsZJ4bRk

Hilarious commentary at 2:50 "Is he a dissident voice or pro-Russian voice?"
as if being critical of current Ukrainian regime inevitably makes a person pro-Russian. What kind of political mindset makes such conclusion possible? Or is it just Western media bias and propaganda effect?:confused:

Are those gale force winds blowing separatist leader Zakharchenko around, or has he had one vodka too many? https://youtube.com/watch?v=bJ-RlyKnOXI&feature=youtu.be …

an this is the average ethnic Ukrainian Donbas proRussian leader--come on comrade mirhond--narrative, narrative, narrative------no wonder they needed the help of the Russia army to deal with the Ukrainian Army.

BTW--a side comment is due on this particular video--your own Russian Defense Minister and the Russian Foreign Minster both accused the US of lying when the US stated there were Russian AD missile systems inside the Minsk 2 contact line---here are Strela 10s or SA-13s 10 km from the contact line (actually must be a minimum of 50kms from the forward contact line)--thus comrade mirhond--"who exactly lied"??

BTW--OSCE warned Russia about this violation of Minsk 2.

[OUTLAW 09]

Canadian radio station about Anatoly Shariy,(runaway Ukrainian journalist who constantly makes fun of Ukrainian media scammers) an interview with him included:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQWhsZJ4bRk

Hilarious commentary at 2:50 "Is he a dissident voice or pro-Russian voice?"
as if being critical of current Ukrainian regime inevitably makes a person pro-Russian. What kind of political mindset makes such conclusion possible? Or is it just Western media bias and propaganda effect?:confused:

more narratives for you mirhond;

remember the proRussian war criminal??

Amnesty International: At least five witnesses to Motorola's murder of Ukrainian POW Ihor Baranovitskiy. http://donbass.hromadskeradio.org/2015/05/10/motorola-ubil-plennogo-kiborga-est-5-svideteley-amnesty-international/ …

remember when I indicated Russian theft of Ukrainian coal???

#Horlivka @NovaGorlivka 22 coal [railroad] cars travelled to an undisclosed location tow/#Mykytivka station,maybe tow/Debaltseve and further

remember the Russian lies about AD systems in the Ukraine???

29/Apr: @MoD_Russia dismissed @StateDept claim Russia deploys anti-aircraft systems in Ukraine — 1/May: in Luhansk! pic.twitter.com/Hs2blg7Fsa

[OUTLAW 09]

Canadian radio station about Anatoly Shariy,(runaway Ukrainian journalist who constantly makes fun of Ukrainian media scammers) an interview with him included:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQWhsZJ4bRk

Hilarious commentary at 2:50 "Is he a dissident voice or pro-Russian voice?"
as if being critical of current Ukrainian regime inevitably makes a person pro-Russian. What kind of political mindset makes such conclusion possible? Or is it just Western media bias and propaganda effect?:confused:

mirhond--this seems to be about the only "growth market" in the Donbas right now.

At least one cannot say the Russian mercenaries are not “capitalists”???
Most of these LNR-DNR-whatever medals are up for sale now on ebay, with the document in blank (fill with your name).

So much for having to "fight the junta Nazi's" to get a Russian "honor" medal---5 USDs and you are an automatic "Russian hero".

https://twitter.com/novostidnua_en/s...57245077311488 …

[mirhond]

https://www.facebook.com/petroporoshenko/posts/620914074709655

Poroshenko asks Zuckerberg for special Ukrainian (possibly Russian-free ^_^ ) Facebook

Dear Mark Zuckerberg, We have to use all available channels to get reaction from global companies. Ukraine does need a Ukrainian Facebook office!

http://www.politnavigator.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/11259102_799004106842749_4602465699311298789_n.jpg

#1 Give us money.
#2 Give us weapons.
#3 Give us discount.
#4 give us admin panel, bitches.

[OUTLAW 09]

https://www.facebook.com/petroporoshenko/posts/620914074709655

Poroshenko asks Zuckerberg for special Ukrainian (possibly Russian-free ^_^ ) Facebook


http://www.politnavigator.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/11259102_799004106842749_4602465699311298789_n.jpg

#1 Give us money.
#2 Give us weapons.
#3 Give us discount.
#4 give us admin panel, bitches.


#Lavrov states that the subtitles were wrong at spesnaz-video. #Kremlin released the original ones. pic.twitter.com/Pe0k9ggLHC

[mirhond]

Moderator's Note see Post 333 for translation of cited text.

See PoRada enacted a decree that denounces some articles of
International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and
European Convention on Human Rights

http://w1.c1.rada.gov.ua/pls/zweb2/webproc4_1?pf3511=54997



Draft Resolution on approval of the statements of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine "On Ukraine derogation from certain obligations defined by the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and the European Convention on Human Rights"... based on necessity of handling Russian agression, of cause.

one peace of the decree is wonderful:

Водночас, проведення антитерористичної операції з метою відвернення загрози знищення Українського народу збройною агресією Російської Федерації є тією межею, яка дозволяє тимчасово обмежувати свободу пересування і право на приватне життяRussians are so bad-assed, they seek to destroy entire Ukrainian nation
(ಠ_ಠ ) :D

[OUTLAW 09]

Rada enacted a decree that denounces some articles of
International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and
European Convention on Human Rights

http://w1.c1.rada.gov.ua/pls/zweb2/webproc4_1?pf3511=54997


... based on necessity of handling Russian agression, of cause.

one peace of the decree is wonderful:


Russians are so bad-assed, they seek to destroy entire Ukrainian nation
(ಠ_ಠ ) :D

mirhond--finally you are totally correct--they are so bad assed they are literally stealing scrap metal from just about anywhere in the Donbas--today reports of scrap metal being taken out of a functioning coal mine almost forcing it to shut down--thieves were chased off by the miners themselves as there is no functioning police force in the occupied mercenary areas. so much for calling themselves a"people's republic"--should be more like the "republic for and by thieves" right mirhond????.

what is it with this Russian scrap metal theft lately--is Russia running out of steel or is it really simply typical Russian corruption at work at the lowest levels????????

meaning my mercenary salary for killing Ukrainians is not making me rich enough so I will steal anything I want--BUT wait is not the Donbas the ethnic Russian region and proRussian SO why are they stealing from their own????

awaiting an answer........

[mirhond]

Rada enacted a decree that denounces some articles of
International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and
European Convention on Human Rights
one peace of the decree is wonderful:


Водночас, проведення антитерористичної операції з метою відвернення загрози знищення Українського народу збройною агресією Російської Федерації є тією межею, яка дозволяє тимчасово обмежувати свободу пересування і право на приватне життя

providing translation, by admin's request:

At this time - when COIN operation that prevents destruction of Ukrainian people by Russian Federation - freedom of movement and privacy are restricted

Meanwhile, another lunatic regulation from Rada:
http://w1.c1.rada.gov.ua/pls/zweb2/webproc4_1?pf3511=54689


Draft Law on the Legal Status and commemoration of the Ukrainian freedom fighters in the twentieth century

article 6:


Стаття 6. Відповідальність за порушення законодавства про статус борців за незалежність України у ХХ столітті
1. Громадяни України, іноземці, а також особи без громадянства, які публічно проявляють зневажливе ставлення до осіб, зазначених у статті 1 даного Закону, перешкоджають реалізації прав борців за незалежність України у XX столітті несуть відповідальність відповідно до чинного законодавства України.
2. Публічне заперечення факту правомірності боротьби за незалежність України у ХХ столітті визнається наругою над пам'яттю борців за незалежність України у XX столітті, приниженням гідності Українського народу і є протиправним.

Google translate
Responsibility for violation of legislation on the status of fighters for Ukraine's independence in the twentieth century
1. Citizens of Ukraine, foreigners and persons without citizenship who publicly showing contempt for the persons referred to in Article 1 of this law, prevent the exercise of rights fighters for independence of Ukraine in the XX century bear responsibility in accordance with the current legislation of Ukraine.
2. Public denial of the legitimacy of the struggle for independence of Ukraine in the twentieth century recognized insult to the memory of fighters for independence of Ukraine in the XX century disparagement of the Ukrainian people and is unlawful.

So, who are these noble fighters, you might ask? Of cause its OUN-UPA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Insurgent_Army

So, now condemning Banderovists of ethnic cleansig, like Volyn massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia
is illegal in Ukraine. Enjoy your stay.
http://polemika.com.ua/images/2013-11/111770/2_1.jpg

[OUTLAW 09]

Rada enacted a decree that denounces some articles of
International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and
European Convention on Human Rights
one peace of the decree is wonderful:



providing translation, by admin's request:

At this time - when COIN operation that prevents destruction of Ukrainian people by Russian Federation - freedom of movement and privacy are restricted

Meanwhile, another lunatic regulation from Rada:
http://w1.c1.rada.gov.ua/pls/zweb2/webproc4_1?pf3511=54689



article 6:


Google translate
Responsibility for violation of legislation on the status of fighters for Ukraine's independence in the twentieth century
1. Citizens of Ukraine, foreigners and persons without citizenship who publicly showing contempt for the persons referred to in Article 1 of this law, prevent the exercise of rights fighters for independence of Ukraine in the XX century bear responsibility in accordance with the current legislation of Ukraine.
2. Public denial of the legitimacy of the struggle for independence of Ukraine in the twentieth century recognized insult to the memory of fighters for independence of Ukraine in the XX century disparagement of the Ukrainian people and is unlawful.

So, who are these noble fighters, you might ask? Of cause its OUN-UPA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Insurgent_Army

So, now condemning Banderovists of ethnic cleansig, like Volyn massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia
is illegal in Ukraine. Enjoy your stay.
http://polemika.com.ua/images/2013-11/111770/2_1.jpg

1. OUN BN is now a full member of the Ukrainian Army

2. mirhond--you still did not answer just why Russians are stealing all the scrap metal in the Donbas

3. provide us kindly the reason why Stalin during the forced collectivization of the Ukraine started a starvation campaign in 1932 that resulted in the starvation of approximately 2M Ukrainians ONLY then to replace them with ethnic Russians where they no longer existed--

mirhond you do realize that the Stalin starvation campaign resulted in ethnic Russians now being in the Donbas which was traditionally 94% Ukrainian--you do acknowledge that piece of Russian history right?

BTW mirhond the Donbas in 1932 was never ethnic Russian--check your statistics---over after Stalin's starvation did it flip ethnically.

BTW check how Stalin in other parts of the SU did in fact thorugh a similar series of campaigns (especially his deportations after 1945) replace those ethnic nationalities with ethnic Russians--check it --historically proven thus no need to even debate

[mirhond]

"Donbass" bat. Nazis hanging a man and woman. Rebels claim victims are rebel fighter and his wife.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBKmcQLGYGk&feature=youtu.be&bpctr=1432289973

bonus video. Munbo-jumbo country song in broken Russian from American volunteer. "Right Sector are fags" :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJehSChu2ZE

[OUTLAW 09]

"Donbass" bat. Nazis hanging a man and woman. Rebels claim victims are rebel fighter and his wife.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBKmcQLGYGk&feature=youtu.be&bpctr=1432289973

bonus video. Munbo-jumbo country song in broken Russian from American volunteer. "Right Sector are fags" :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJehSChu2ZE

mirhond --you do realize the "hanging video" has been proven a "fake" watch the leg of the man "actually move" when he is suppose to be long dead--come on mirhond get something that has not been proved to be a "fake".

[Dishonesty]

Anastas Mikoyan, a Stalinist Politburo member who survived into the Khrushchev era, at one point explained why it was impossible to rehabilitate people too quickly. If they were all declared innocent at once, “it would be clear that the country was not being run by a legal government, but by a group of gangsters.”


When Cardinal Theodor Innitzer of Vienna tried to appeal for food aid for the starving in summer and autumn 1933, Soviet authorities rebuffed him nastily, saying that the Soviet Union had neither cardinals nor cannibals—a statement that was only half true.

[Dishonesty]

Mirhond
I do recommend a visit to two mass graves near Moscow containing the remains of purge victims-the Butovo and the Kommunarka farm village.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/moscow-finds-its-killing-fields/217882.html


"They shot as many as 600 people a day in Butovo"

[Dishonesty]

About 7,000 people in the region around what was then known as Leningrad disappeared in Stalin's purges from 1930 to 1936 and nearly 40,000 more were killed from August to November 1937, the peak of the terror, according to Memorial. Thousands were buried in a cemetery discovered a decade ago in the village of Levashevo, but relatives of victims had long believed that Stalin's executioners took most of the political prisoners to the Rzhevsk army range in Toksovo, just north of Leningrad, where they were shot and buried.

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2002-09-24/news/0209240083_1_human-rights-irina-flige-stalin

[mirhond]

Anastas Mikoyan, a Stalinist Politburo member who survived into the Khrushchev era, at one point explained why it was impossible to rehabilitate people too quickly. If they were all declared innocent at once, “it would be clear that the country was not being run by a legal government, but by a group of gangsters.”

When Cardinal Theodor Innitzer of Vienna tried to appeal for food aid for the starving in summer and autumn 1933, Soviet authorities rebuffed him nastily, saying that the Soviet Union had neither cardinals nor cannibals—a statement that was only half true.
Mirhond
I do recommend a visit to two mass graves near Moscow containing the remains of purge victims-the Butovo and the Kommunarka farm village.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/moscow-finds-its-killing-fields/217882.html

"They shot as many as 600 people a day in Butovo"
About 7,000 people in the region around what was then known as Leningrad disappeared in Stalin's purges from 1930 to 1936 and nearly 40,000 more were killed from August to November 1937, the peak of the terror, according to Memorial. Thousands were buried in a cemetery discovered a decade ago in the village of Levashevo, but relatives of victims had long believed that Stalin's executioners took most of the political prisoners to the Rzhevsk army range in Toksovo, just north of Leningrad, where they were shot and buried.



What it has to do with Ukraine: non-military aspects topic?
Would you please create a relevant topic for this?


mirhond --you do realize the "hanging video" has been proven a "fake".
Again, nothing but your word against a video evidence - there is always place for reasonable doubt, let me think... I choose video.
I'll use this phrase as a template every time you post any unsupported nonsense

[OUTLAW 09]

What it has to do with Ukraine: non-military aspects topic?
Would you please create a relevant topic for this?


Again, nothing but your word against a video evidence - there is always place for reasonable doubt, let me think... I choose video.
I'll use this phrase as a template every time you post any unsupported nonsense

come on mirhond really....,.."video evidence"--means absolutely nothing unless fact checked and or geo tagged---assuming you watched it in slow motion you did see the supposedly "hung" person moving his leg long long long after he was theoretically "dead" right mirhond??? --what was it-- he was being paid by the hour and was trying to get paid for three hours instead of one???

narrative, narrative, narrative

This Russian saying translates well into English--

Putin's Russia says:
1. We don't leave soldiers behind. (mirhond--this is a Spetsnaz saying in the Brigades)
2. If you catch them, they are not ours.
3. If you kill them, we'll send a wreath.


This is actually non military---your Russian Embassy in Kyiv complained bitterly that they could not see the "two former service members" as your MoD and Putin's spokesperson called them.

THEN after the ICRC, the OSCE, and Amnesty International visited with them and a Russian news media did an interview with them -----

WHO still has not shown up?????--your own Russian Kyiv Embassy which is just a drive away from the hospital.

BTW the Ukrainian response was---- "you have never asked for a visit".

The POW Spetsnaz CPT in one interview after stating he is an officer of the Russian Spetsnaz and a Russia citizen said the following---"WHY have I not received a visit from them after everyone else came"????

your know mirhond he is actually right-- -----Russian Spetsnaz officers are now being abandoned by their own Army and Putin?????

it is just like sealing scrap steel from your own ethnic Russian Ukrainians--by the way you never did respond to that.

[OUTLAW 09]

What it has to do with Ukraine: non-military aspects topic?
Would you please create a relevant topic for this?


Again, nothing but your word against a video evidence - there is always place for reasonable doubt, let me think... I choose video.
I'll use this phrase as a template every time you post any unsupported nonsense

http://www.newsru.com/russia/23may2015/voennye.html … Russian diplomats accuse Ukraine of barring their access to the 2 POWs, say Kyiv is brainwashing them against Russia.

Do Russian diplomats really believe what they are saying---mirhond???

Come on not even you can believe that Ukrainians are capable of "brainwashing" Russians can you????????

Impossible one might say but then again those Ukrainians " are really sneaky fellows" so those well trained Russian Spetsnaz intelligence CPT and SGT might well in fact be "brainwashed" AS they keep saying over and over and over they are Russian Army active duty service members and Russian Army Spetsnaz with orders to be in the Ukraine.

--BUT that as got to be "brainwashing" as Putin has told the world --"there are no Russian troops in the Ukraine"--right mirhond???

So comrade mirhond WHO do we believe???----YOU, your Russian Spetsnaz CPT and SGT or Putin?????

BUT wait your own Russian Embassy in Kyiv says "they are brainwashed".

It seems the "Russian World" is a tad confused right now as to what the "real truth" is actually when two Russian active duty Spetsnaz soldier start talking.

How strange is that?

mirhond ---do not try to argue this is not "non military" as we at SWJ are just as confused as you and Putin are--because if we are to "believe" Putin and the entire Russian Embassy" they are "simple miners and truck drivers and former service members and MAYBE just on vacation".

--SO this is not about military per se-it is straight forward easy to understand "non military" as it pertains just to two guys who really just needed a compass and could not read a map in Ukrainian and thought they were in Berlin.

Wow-- never knew "narratives" could be so confusing or so tangled.

[mirhond]

Sturmabteilung fighter posted photos of a rebel with his index fingers cut off.

https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/3300/94845085.113/0_122dec_f4e3730f_XXL.jpg

Both sides are to blame,
Ukraine: Overwhelming new evidence of prisoners being tortured and killed amid conflict
... but one thing amuses me at the most - those Nazi butchers don't even think to be discreet, unlike rebels. Perhaps that's because tortures are not illegal, according to recent Rada regulations.

[OUTLAW 09]

Sturmabteilung fighter posted photos of a rebel with his index fingers cut off.

https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/3300/94845085.113/0_122dec_f4e3730f_XXL.jpg

Both sides are to blame,
Ukraine: Overwhelming new evidence of prisoners being tortured and killed amid conflict
... but one thing amuses me at the most - those Nazi butchers don't even think to be discreet, unlike rebels. Perhaps that's because tortures are not illegal, according to recent Rada regulations.

see comrade mirhond--indictor of your utter lack of Russian military service--had you served in the Russian Army and had you fired any number of the Russian heavy machine guns you would have been fully aware that they all have an inherent failure--IF you do not watch where your hands are--during the firing it can in fact rip your fingers off.

This check point had a 12.7 cal as it's main defense--by the way the 12.7 is a WW2 MG and notorious for taking fingers off.

US soldiers fully understand the .50cal issue as well BUT here is the difference THEY are repeatedly trained on where to place their hands BUT mercenaries often tend to lack that training AND the Russian Army does not as well train for that exact problem either--point and shot is their only training.

next time stop the narrative and do fact check----

again mirhond as you complain here--this is a military topic and you were off topic.

BUT you did notice exactly how propaganda works--"those nasty mean and evil Ukrainians" just had to be torturing the poor ethnic Russian--see they even cut off his fingers after killing six of his "friends".

BUT you failed to ask a very evident question--THEN if they cut off his fingers WHY did they render combat first aid and leave him completely alone ie ungarded but restrained as is the standard handling of POWS who have been injured on the battlefiled?---just let it bleed out and die--right mirhond--that is the sub suggested trend of your comment.

BUT you failed to have read the first series of twitter comments that reflected exactly that BEFORE the Ukrainians released the "truth"--the first tweets from Russian trolls stated "they had cut off a number of fingers as torture"--BUT then surprise surprise it was just the fingers closest to the 12.7 firing mechanism.

BUT hey anyone can fall for propaganda if one wants to--the "truth" is harder sometimes to accept as it is reality.

Even a dutch ex serviceman recognized the injury in his comments----

[OUTLAW 09]

see comrade mirhond--indictor of your utter lack of Russian military service--had you served in the Russian Army and had you fired any number of the Russian heavy machine guns you would have been fully aware that they all have an inherent failure--IF you do not watch where your hands are--during the firing it can in fact rip your fingers off.

This check point had a 12.7 cal as it's main defense--by the way the 12.7 is a WW2 MG and notorious for taking fingers off.

US soldiers fully understand the .50cal issue as well BUT here is the difference THEY are repeatedly trained on where to place their hands BUT mercenaries often tend to lack that training AND the Russian Army does not as well train for that exact problem either--point and shot is their only training.

next time stop the narrative and do fact check----

again mirhond as you complain here--this is a military topic and you were off topic.

BUT you did notice exactly how propaganda works--"those nasty mean and evil Ukrainians" just had to be torturing the poor ethnic Russian--see they even cut off his fingers after killing six of his "friends".

BUT you failed to ask a very evident question--THEN if they cut off his fingers WHY did they render combat first aid and leave him completely alone ie ungarded but restrained as is the standard handling of POWS who have been injured on the battlefiled?---just let it bleed out and die--right mirhond--that is the sub suggested trend of your comment.

BUT you failed to have read the first series of twitter comments that reflected exactly that BEFORE the Ukrainians released the "truth"--the first tweets from Russian trolls stated "they had cut off a number of fingers as torture"--BUT then surprise surprise it was just the fingers closest to the 12.7 firing mechanism.

BUT hey anyone can fall for propaganda if one wants to--the "truth" is harder sometimes to accept as it is reality.

Even a dutch ex serviceman recognized the injury in his comments----

Russian propaganda has 4 Ds: dismiss, distort, distract, dismay.

#Moscow’s account of #Nato expansion is a case of false memory syndrome http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...ory-grievances … pic.twitter.com/fboZx79OVu

[davidbfpo]

From Twitter:
Mike Lee ‏@AgronomyUkraine (https://twitter.com/AgronomyUkraine) Crimea irrigated land down to 13kha from 140kha 2013; Crimea has not installed an alternative to the North Crimean Canal cut off in May 2014


Well SWC did highlight this last year IIRC.

[Firn]

From Twitter:

Well SWC did highlight this last year IIRC.

Indeed, although it wasn't really difficult to get right once one knew basic geography and Putin continued his war. An easy bat, just like anticipating high Russian inflation after it's aggression especially with the stupid 'counter-sanctions' and the oil crash.

The Ukrainian economy is obviously in a terrible state, even worse then Russia and harsh cuts are hurting many. The oil crash is softening the blows just a little bit.

[mirhond]

http://www.segodnya.ua/ukraine/granica-ukrainy-s-rossiey-budet-bez-steny-618556.html

European Wall will not be fenced all along - says Yatsenuk.


"Если ставить ограждения по всей границе, то нужно еще ставить и пограничников, чтобы они охраняли это заграждение, потому что его украдут",
Fence need to be manned at it's entire length, othervise it will be stolen.
Captain Obvious account.


Всего на укрепление границы планируют потратить 4,1 млрд грн и завершить проект к концу 2018 года
Ukraine is going to spend 164 mln$ untill 2018 to secure Eastern border.

[Bill Moore]

Putin is a scared little man

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/bill-browder-s-nasty-glimpse-into-the-black-heart-of-putin-s-russia-1.3010521

Bill Browder's nasty glimpse into the black heart of Putin's Russia


Or maybe it will all come to a crashing end. Now that he's unmasked as a thug, Putin is increasingly at risk, according to Browder.

"Putin is a very scared man," he says. "He's stolen a lot of money over the last 14 years — and then he saw a similar kleptocrat, Viktor Yanukovich, the president of Ukraine, be run out of the country by his own people for doing the same thing."

Approval ratings 'complete nonsense'


"He's on thin ice in the sense that anything could happen that might set the Russian people off ... The approval ratings are complete nonsense. If you're living in Russia and someone calls you up on the phone and says, 'Do you support the president or not?' of course, you're not gonna say no, because you get into trouble if you say no. So you'll say, yes."

I think he is hanging on by a thread, so much for being a great strategist. Instead he is simply a thug that has no vision for Russia's future, his only goal is retaining power.

[kaur]

I think that Putin's biggest problem was not offering to occupied territories normal narrative. He started his conquest with Russkii Mir story by messangers like Strelkov (Russian orthodox FSB guy), Eurasianist Dugin, Borodai (PR specialist from Soviet war correspondent Prokhanov team), Kurginjan, Kadyrov's Chechens, cossacks etc. This was like violent fairy tale called "Novorossia". At the same time he missed the scenario that Ukrainians will start fighting back and western world will back Ukrainians. Violent fairy tales continue as long there is willing sponsor to pay for this.

[OUTLAW 09]

Putin is a scared little man

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/bill-browder-s-nasty-glimpse-into-the-black-heart-of-putin-s-russia-1.3010521

Bill Browder's nasty glimpse into the black heart of Putin's Russia





I think he is hanging on by a thread, so much for being a great strategist. Instead he is simply a thug that has no vision for Russia's future, his only goal is retaining power.


Bill--our commentator mirhond should be paying extremely close attention to the following figure--Bill B and his analysts seem to think Putin has "stolen" over 40B with a capital B USDs and has five massive mansions hidden in various parts of Russia.

Well so much for "caring for the Russian common man on the street"--it is little wonder he executes any opposition leader-and it is no wonder he fears the "Maidan".

"Antimaidan" Police exercise in #Russia http://russia.liveuamap.com/en/2015/...cise-in-russia … pic.twitter.com/knIelbGKyY

[mirhond]

Putin is a scared little man

Bill Browder's nasty glimpse into the black heart of Putin's Russia

Greenmailer Browder, who are clueless about Russia, cosplays a visionary.


"The approval ratings are complete nonsense. If you're living in Russia and someone calls you up on the phone and says, 'Do you support the president or not?' of course, you're not gonna say no, because you get into trouble if you say no. So you'll say, yes."

Hogwash.

[OUTLAW 09]

Greenmailer Browder, who are clueless about Russia, cosplays a visionary.



Hogwash.

Russian propaganda 4Ds--dismiss, distract, distort, dismay designed to create 2Ds--distrust and doubt

so mirhond where does this comment fit in?????

[mirhond]

I think that Putin's biggest problem was not offering to occupied territories normal narrative.

What is your criteria of a "normal narrative"?
I believe you just not paing attention to rebels media - even a short glimpse gives you tons of narrative of all kinds, patriotic, politic and spiritual bull$hit, mostly. Do hot hesitate to explore their sites, as far as you read Russian, you could do it yourself.

[kaur]

mirhond, Donbas is Putin's covert operation gone wrong. People just didn't start revolt against Kiev. Period. Is this intelligence failure? Seems to be. What about counter elite against Kiev? Motorola, Zakhartshenko etc? Are you joking?This geographical room is filled with different fairy tails, which are just not serious to normal people. With Motorola to Eurasian Union? Who belives this? Do you remember народного мэра?

http://www.ntv.ru/novosti/998716/

If Russii Mir narrative is ok, I don't understand this GRU captain's story.


— Вопрос я понял. Он очень актуален. Но пока я лучше продолжу о том, что очень тяжело видеть здесь раненых. Молодой парень катится на коляске без ноги. И это тяжело видеть. И самое страшное, что с той стороны такая же ситуация. Тоже — руки, ноги, жизни, молодые русские, славяне. Тяжело. Происходит на самом деле понимание, что русские убивают русских. Есть такая песня у «Любэ» «Красные режут белого, белые режут красного».

http://www.novayagazeta.ru/society/68593.html

This song suits here 100% - Аквариум "Этот поезд в огне"

Colonel Vasin has come to the frontline
And brought his young wife along
Colonel Vasin has rallied his corps
And told them: "Let's go home"
We fought this war for seventy years
We were taught that life is a fight
But the intelligence has just reported
We fought ourselves all this time.

And I have seen generals
They drink and eat our death
Their children are going crazy
Cause there's nothing left that they don't have
And our land lies in rust
Our churches are burnt.
If we want to have a home to return to
Now is the time to return

Our train is on fire
There are no buttons to push
Our train is on fire
There is no place to run to
Long ago this land was ours
Before we got trapped in this war
And it will die if it is nobody's
It's time for it to be returned

And the torches are burning around us
It's the rallying of all perished troops
And people who shot our fathers
Are now making plans for our youths.
We were born by the sound of marches
We were threatened by jail
I say it's about time we stopped crawling.
We have returned to our land.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P1nAnLzcfrY

Outlaw is doing good job :)

[mirhond]

mirhond, Donbas is Putin's covert operation gone wrong. People just didn't start revolt against Kiev. Period. Is this intelligence failure? Seems to be. What about counter elite against Kiev? Motorola, Zakhartshenko etc? Are you joking?This geographical room is filled with different fairy tails, which are just not serious to normal people. With Motorola to Eurasian Union? Who belives this?

I asked you about "normal narrative" criteria, not about your moral judgement of rebels warlords. If you apply terms "normal narrative" and "normai people" - than define them, please. Othervise it looks like you'll call "abnormal" any piece of reality you don't like. If I get you wright - you don't like current political agenda of the rebels, that's why you call it "violent fairy tales", but argument and logic does not work this way, you know. You have to bring evidence that your sentiment is shared by some meaningful part of Donbass population, for example.

ps. BG song is a perfect example of Barnum Effect
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnum_effect ant it is irrelevant, unless you mean Donbass population have the same feeling about Novorossia that Soviet population had about USSR in late 80-s. Anyway, you have to bring evidence.

[OUTLAW 09]

I asked you about "normal narrative" criteria, not about your moral judgement of rebels warlords. If you apply terms "normal narrative" and "normai people" - than define them, please. Othervise it looks like you'll call "abnormal" any piece of reality you don't like. If I get you wright - you don't like current political agenda of the rebels, that's why you call it "violent fairy tales", but argument and logic does not work this way, you know. You have to bring evidence that your sentiment is shared by some meaningful part of Donbass population, for example.

ps. BG song is a perfect example of Barnum Effect
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnum_effect ant it is irrelevant, unless you mean Donbass population have the same feeling about Novorossia that Soviet population had about USSR in late 80-s. Anyway, you have to bring evidence.

What evidence are you talking about comrade mirhond--the evidence that Motorolla is not a POW executioner--come mirhond even he admitted in a recorded TV interview that he has executed 15.

Oh an that great Donbas leader who led the attack this week "claimed what" 400 Ukrainian killed and over 1000 wounded. THEN after declaring a so called "victory" he orders a RETREAT--come on a RETREAT--what kind of victory is that???

by the way in another recorded video of a fighter at the Donetsk hospital--they RETREATED because the UA was on the verge of surrounding them.

come on comrade mirhond that was also recorded on video footage--and not faked as is normal for Moscow.

and let's not get into Givi mirhond---who had one of his LTs arrested in Moldavia coming from Moscow--come on comreade arrested by the SBU in Moldavia

and that great former President overthrown by the junta who still has his banks in the Donbas openly called those "so called freedom fighters"--thugs, criminals and alcohol addicts--WHY because they robbed one of his banks this week.

evidence mirhond--I have all the videos from the above--- do you??

AND oh those "so called freedom fighters"--they beat, torture and kill Ukrainian POWs--also have the videos also from returning UA POWs.

but you might like this one---let's see those two "former service members" oh forgot actual Spetsnaz officers who were seriously wounded received first class medical treatment and were "not killed for their organs" as their officers told them the UA does---

Beaten Ukraine POW brought to park to meet ppl. Quite a show for Russia press https://youtu.be/T1JW8wZ30jg pic.twitter.com/PERJHb3IIg @OnlineMagazin

so we can go the "evidence route"--if you want--

Remember Russian propaganda has 4Ds--dismiss, distort, distract, dismay designed for 2 Ds--distrust and doubt--so alone in this comment you have used how many of the Ds??????? What 3, 4 or all of them???

[OUTLAW 09]

What evidence are you talking about comrade mirhond--the evidence that Motorolla is not a POW executioner--come mirhond even he admitted in a recorded TV interview that he has executed 15.

Oh an that great Donbas leader who led the attack this week "claimed what" 400 Ukrainian killed and over 1000 wounded. THEN after declaring a so called "victory" he orders a RETREAT--come on a RETREAT--what kind of victory is that???

by the way in another recorded video of a fighter at the Donetsk hospital--they RETREATED because the UA was on the verge of surrounding them.

come on comrade mirhond that was also recorded on video footage--and not faked as is normal for Moscow.

and let's not get into Givi mirhond---who had one of his LTs arrested in Moldavia coming from Moscow--come on comreade arrested by the SBU in Moldavia

and that great former President overthrown by the junta who still has his banks in the Donbas openly called those "so called freedom fighters"--thugs, criminals and alcohol addicts--WHY because they robbed one of his banks this week.

evidence mirhond--I have all the videos from the above--- do you??

AND oh those "so called freedom fighters"--they beat, torture and kill Ukrainian POWs--also have the videos also from returning UA POWs.

but you might like this one---let's see those two "former service members" oh forgot actual Spetsnaz officers who were seriously wounded received first class medical treatment and were "not killed for their organs" as their officers told them the UA does---

Beaten Ukraine POW brought to park to meet ppl. Quite a show for Russia press https://youtu.be/T1JW8wZ30jg pic.twitter.com/PERJHb3IIg @OnlineMagazin

so we can go the "evidence route"--if you want--

Remember Russian propaganda has 4Ds--dismiss, distort, distract, dismay designed for 2 Ds--distrust and doubt--so alone in this comment you have used how many of the Ds??????? What 3, 4 or all of them???


Illustrative: Donetsk rebels stole more than $12 million from A Yanukovych's bank in
Donetsk. Collateral damage? http://www.pravda.com.ua/rus/news/2015/06/5/7070300/ …

[OUTLAW 09]

I asked you about "normal narrative" criteria, not about your moral judgement of rebels warlords. If you apply terms "normal narrative" and "normai people" - than define them, please. Othervise it looks like you'll call "abnormal" any piece of reality you don't like. If I get you wright - you don't like current political agenda of the rebels, that's why you call it "violent fairy tales", but argument and logic does not work this way, you know. You have to bring evidence that your sentiment is shared by some meaningful part of Donbass population, for example.

ps. BG song is a perfect example of Barnum Effect
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnum_effect ant it is irrelevant, unless you mean Donbass population have the same feeling about Novorossia that Soviet population had about USSR in late 80-s. Anyway, you have to bring evidence.

comrade mirhond-care to comment on any of these comments?????
There's a phrase missing betw "grows as" and "Kiev" 2wit "Russia shows contempt for Minsk and continues to lie that" https://twitter.com/mfa_russia/status/606889731310428160 …

Putin tells Italian paper Russia backs Ukraine peace deal http://reut.rs/1ATxci9

The invasion of #Ukraine remains the greatest existential threat to international security" http://www.newsweek.com/putins-thinly-veiled-threat-nuclear-war-working-339817 … pic.twitter.com/oyiLnPB7Yc

Very sad: Russia's finest old entrepreneur and philanthrop Dmitry Zimin forced to leave Russia. The best of all. http://www.vedomosti.ru/politics/news/2015/06/05/595436-osnovatel-dinastii-zimin-pokinul-rossiyu---rbk …

An 89 year old Russian declared "foreign agent NGO" who has helped literally thousands of common Russians "forced to leave his native country"--THAT mirhond is what Russia has become under Putin's fascism.

[Dishonesty]

For example 1968:


Esteemed Leonid Ilich,

Conscious of the full responsibility for our decision, we appeal to you with the following statement.

The basically correct post-January democratic process, the correction of mistakes and shortcomings from the past, as well as the overall political management of society, have gradually eluded the control of the Party's Central Committee. The press, radio, and television, which are effectively in the hands of right-wing forces, have influenced popular opinion to such an extent that elements hostile to the Party have begun to take part in the political life of our country, without any opposition from the public. These elements are fomenting a wave of nationalism and chauvinism, and are provoking an anti-Communist and anti-Soviet psychosis.

Our collective -- the Party leadership -- has made a number of mistakes. We have not properly defended or put into effect the Marxist-Leninist norms of party work and above all the principles of democratic centralism. The Party leadership is no longer able to defend itself successfully against attacks on socialism, and it is unable to organize either ideological or political resistance against the right-wing forces. The very existence of socialism in our country is under threat.

At present, all political instruments and the instruments of state power are paralyzed to a considerable degree. The right-wing forces have created conditions suitable for a counterrevolutionary coup.

In such trying circumstances we are appealing to you, Soviet Communists, the lending representatives of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, with a request for you to lend support and assistance with all the means at your disposal. Only with your assistance can the Czechoslovak Socialist Republic be extricated from the imminent danger of counterrevolution.

We realize that for both the Communist Party of the Soviet Union and the Soviet government, this ultimate step to preserve socialism in the Czechoslovak Socialist Republic will not be easy. Therefore, we will struggle with all our power and all our means. But if our strength and capabilities are depleted or fail to bring positive results, then our statement should be regarded as an urgent request and plea for your intervention and all-round assistance.

In connection with the complex and dangerous course of the situation in our country, we request that you treat our statement with the utmost secrecy, and for that reason we are writing to you, personally, in Russian.

Alois Indra

Drahomir Kolder

Antonin Kapek

Oldrich Svestka

Vasil Bilak

[kaur]

Mirhond, my friend, who does not to be my friend, I can tell you what is not normal to me. Not normal is any story that comes from Kremlin spin doctor's kitchen. Present day Donbass is cooked there. At one moment they had even stratetegic planning center behind GUM deparment store manned with former Jedinaja Rossija guys. That seems to be closed now.

About song. That song is linked to GRU captain's feelings about war, where Russians are fighting Russians.

Reading forecasts about sanctions, it seems your Golden age is again puched further away. Why? There seems to be dejavu. You in Moscow feel this later than people in small cities.

Почему друзья СССР не помешали угробить державу


Какую пользу принесла Советскому Союзу поддержка подобных персонажей — вопрос риторический. В 1985 году тот самый арабский мир, на который советчики-комитетчики делали основную ставку, обанкротил советскую власть, отпустив нефтяные цены в свободное падение. Коллапс нефтяных цен (с $35 за баррель в 1980 до $7 к 1986) неплохо помог экономикам крупных импортёров нефти — США, Западной Европы, Японии — но для сырьевой советской экономики это был полный и окончательный крах. Которого советчики-комитетчики не умели предвидеть в 1980-е, и даже в 1991 году, обсуждая причины развала советской империи, Шебаршин с коллегами по-прежнему ищет объяснений в происках иностранной агентуры и предательстве высшего партийного руководства. Прочесть «Гибель империи» Гайдара он так до самой смерти и не догадался.

http://dolboeb.livejournal.com/2818117.html

[kaur]

About normal. Is this normal?


Ideologically, no other domestic justifications exist for Putin’s system of domination. Another dimension of the same collective myth includes the hugely important theme of “Russia’s rebirth as a great power.” The reproduction of authoritarian institutions goes hand-in- hand with the imitation of a Soviet grand-imperial style: it requires repeated confirmation that present-day Russia still holds the geopo- litical positions that the USSR used to enjoy—hence, the excessive military expenditures (in the absence of substantial modernization or reform of the military); pompous, tsarist-style ceremonies in the Kremlin; grand, stately receptions in palaces; and huge expenses on the Sochi Olympics and various summits. The ubiquitous pro- paganda keeps pounding in the heads of the “masses” that Putin alone is to thank for Russia’s having regained its influence around the world and gained respect in international affairs. Political ads end- lessly play various versions of the same tune, one more compatible with North Korea than a country that deems itself European. The global community has recognized Putin as a highly influential, if not the most influential, and successful leader in the modern world.

https://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Putins-Russia.pdf#page=27

Prospects. Is this normal?


Regime. The regime attempts to make up for the sterilization of politics—including suppression of political competition, censorship, electoral fraud, use of administrative leverage, and blackmail—with fake traditionalism, the promotion of Russia’s “special path,” and other ideological surrogates. At the same time, the regime’s policy toward opposition is built around a simple thesis that any politics and politicians are naturally immoral and are fighting for power only for the sake of power. The regime teaches, “They are as unprincipled as we are, but we are ‘ours’ and they are ‘foreign.’” Thus, the regime leads the general public to believe there is no alternative to the rul- ing elite. Today, this is the key argument in favor of preserving the authoritarian regime.

This is the lens through you must watch Donbass.

[mirhond]

1. Mirhond, my friend, who does not to be my friend, I can tell you what is not normal to me. Not normal is any story that comes from Kremlin spin doctor's kitchen. Present day Donbass is cooked there.

2. About normal. Is this normal?
Quote: Ideologically, no other domestic justifications exist for Putin’s system of domination.

3. About song. That song is linked to GRU captain's feelings about war, where Russians are fighting Russians.



1. This is not an answer to my question, but this is a strong evidence that you just misuse term "normal" and call "not normal" any piece of reality you don't like. You can't make any cogent argument from moral judgements and warm feeling of moral superiority, do you realise ut?

2. Confirmation bias at it's best. Do you realise that another load of a moral judgements and evangelical sentiments from authors you like does not make a reasonable argument?

3. Barnum Effect at it's best. Do not hesitate to listen to other Grebenshikov songs - you'll find entire Universe of hidden meanings and misteries wrapped into secrets and covered by enigmas

ps. I gave you a hint how to find useful information about Donbass politics (read rebels media, in case you forgot) - would you please spent at least one hour of your precious time and read something from them? Don't be afraid - reading does not necessarily turns you into Cossack. :D


For example 1968:

Esteemed Leonid Ilich,

Conscious of the full responsibility for our decision, we appeal to you with the following statement.


Would you please explain what it has to do with Ukraine: non-military aspects ?

[kaur]

mirhond, your hint to read rebel media is in fact worthless. The sole reason is that most of it is sponsored, edited, guided by Kremlin PR guys. Next suggest me to watch Kisseljov, Solovjov etc talking shows :D Can you tell me were Misha Leontjev has vanished? Rosneft is taking all his time?

[mirhond]

mirhond, your hint to read rebel media is in fact worthless. The sole reason is that most of it is sponsored, edited, guided by Kremlin PR guys. Next suggest me to watch Kisseljov, Solovjov etc talking shows :D Can you tell me were Misha Leontjev has vanished? Rosneft is taking all his time?

So, when you lost your keys, you search for them under the lantern, because its easier? Gosh, our bureaucracy needs such employees, completely devoided of imagination and unquestionably loyal to official media voice-pipe. But you said most of it - so, what fundamental law prohibits you from studying this "unsponsored" part?

[OUTLAW 09]

So, when you lost your keys, you search for them under the lantern, because its easier? Gosh, our bureaucracy needs such employees, completely devoided of imagination and unquestionably loyal to official media voice-pipe. But you said most of it - so, what fundamental law prohibits you from studying this "unsponsored" part?

remember comrade mirhond---Russian propaganda has 4Ds--dismiss, distract, distort, dismay designed to create the 2Ds --distrust and doubt.

be sure to provide something that does not contain these 6Ds---

better yet find something that is not a Russian "narrative" is what IMO kaur is trying to get you to understand.

[mirhond]

US Congress blocks aid to Azov Sturmabteilung:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/u-s-congress-admits-nazi-role-in-ukraine/5455422


Yet, on June 10, the U.S. House of Representatives approved a bipartisan amendment to the Defense Appropriations Act – from Reps. John Conyers Jr., D-Michigan, and Ted Yoho, R-Florida – that would block U.S. training of the Azov battalion and would prevent transfer of shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missiles to fighters in Iraq and Ukraine.

“I am grateful that the House of Representatives unanimously passed my amendments last night to ensure that our military does not train members of the repulsive neo-Nazi Azov Battalion, along with my measures to keep the dangerous and easily trafficked MANPADs out of these unstable regions,” said Conyers on Thursday.

[OUTLAW 09]

US Congress blocks aid to Azov Sturmabteilung:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/u-s-congress-admits-nazi-role-in-ukraine/5455422


Yet, on June 10, the U.S. House of Representatives approved a bipartisan amendment to the Defense Appropriations Act – from Reps. John Conyers Jr., D-Michigan, and Ted Yoho, R-Florida – that would block U.S. training of the Azov battalion and would prevent transfer of shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missiles to fighters in Iraq and Ukraine.

“I am grateful that the House of Representatives unanimously passed my amendments last night to ensure that our military does not train members of the repulsive neo-Nazi Azov Battalion, along with my measures to keep the dangerous and easily trafficked MANPADs out of these unstable regions,” said Conyers on Thursday.

see comrade mirhond--IF you had been tracking on the Ukraine military side of this you would have been totally aware of this two days ago.

first of all I can document for you over eight different Russian Nazi groups fighting today in Donbas and I can even have their VK videos and photos of their Nazi ceremonies if you would like.

BUT hey you would never even admit that there are even Russian Nazi's.

THERE has been some serious questions raised by who exactly paid this Congressman to enter this amendment into the HR funding bill--as he never even checked with the Ukrainian government and took the word of two news media outlets one of which was using a proRussian slanted article and this is the one the Congressman "quoted" he had in fact read.

Propaganda all the way is what he was fed--and now social media is actually questioning just who "paid him off".

[OUTLAW 09]

see comrade mirhond--IF you had been tracking on the Ukraine military side of this you would have been totally aware of this two days ago.

first of all I can document for you over eight different Russian Nazi groups fighting today in Donbas and I can even have their VK videos and photos of their Nazi ceremonies if you would like.

here is one for you:

BUT hey you would never even admit that there are even Russian Nazi's.

THERE has been some serious questions raised by who exactly paid this Congressman to enter this amendment into the HR funding bill--as he never even checked with the Ukrainian government and took the word of two news media outlets one of which was using a proRussian slanted article and this is the one the Congressman "quoted" he had in fact read.

Propaganda all the way is what he was fed--and now social media is actually questioning just who "paid him off".

here is the VK link----

https://vk.com/id205292010

[mirhond]

http://korrespondent.net/ukraine/3535398-mynuist-pryznal-una-unso-posobnykamy-fashystov

Ukrinian Ministry of Justice refused to register UNA-UNSO Nazi-wannabe party
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_National_Assembly_%E2%80%93_Ukrainian_Pe ople%27s_Self-Defence

At least some sanity among all this madness:

http://w1.c1.rada.gov.ua/pls/zweb2/webproc4_1?pf3511=55883


Проект Закону про заборону використання історичної назви території України та похідних від неї слів в якості назви або синоніму Російської Федерації, використання такої назви для позначення сучасної території Російської Федерації чи будь-якої її частини

Draft Law on forbidding term "Russian Federation" in Ukraine.


Назва «Русь» та похідна від неї «Росія» є загальновизнаною назвою нинішньої України. Територія нинішньої Російської Федерації ніколи, до нового часу, не називалася іноземними джерелами та місцевими мешканцями ані «Руссю», ані «Росією». ...
Етнонім «Русь» чи «Росія», що використовувався для означення кордонів України, до незаконного перейменування Московського царства у «Ро́сію», також зберігається і до середини XVIII століття.
translation: Terms "Rus" and "Russia" have nothing to do with modern territory of Russia, morower they have never been applied to Russia by foreign sources. ... terms "Rus" or "Russia" were illegally stolen by Principality of Moscowia in 18th sent.

Oh, that is so-o-o scientific.:D

[mirhond]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_3793054749&feature=iv&src_vid=U84V-nNLwRc&v=urcbpfRi3j8

Right Sector started gunfight in Mukachevo, town near Ukr.-Hungary border.

http://obozrevatel.com/crime/31928-v-mukachevo-proizoshla-strelba-est-pogibshie--militsiya-zablokirovala-gorod.htm

Media says Sturmabteilung seized a sports facility that belongs to a local strongmam.

Some military trucks and BTRs spotted, also. Could possibly be military trying to pacify Right Sector.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_2280210697&feature=iv&src_vid=fKVXiok9iRk&v=U84V-nNLwRc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9ginluC0aY
Right Sector blocks municipal administration in L'vov, W. Ukraine. Looks like Sturmabteilung is trying to improve their foothold in the W. Ukraine while having their asses kicked by "silovikian orkz" in Kiev and East.

[mirhond]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?t=879&v=ZbMZLEdjO30

Lengthy and mostly tedious Ukrainian political talkshow - but one phrase from Right sector militant caught my ear:
12:30 "Army is a source of a political elites in the prosperous states. Our army must be the same" Isn't this pretty? Sturmabteilung muscle-man pretends to be a ruling class soon. Sancta simplicitas!

[OUTLAW 09]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?t=879&v=ZbMZLEdjO30

Lengthy and mostly tedious Ukrainian political talkshow - but one phrase from Right sector militant caught my ear:
12:30 "Army is a source of a political elites in the prosperous states. Our army must be the same" Isn't this pretty? Sturmabteilung muscle-man pretends to be a ruling class soon. Sancta simplicitas!

you did no fully understand the English sentence otherwise you would not be making the comment you made---nice translation you used that was made for you but you blew the meaning of the sentence--reread it slowly

AND Russia political elites do not come out of the military, FSB or GRU????

come on mirhond get real

[mirhond]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuntSMVfwSQ

2:000:50 live video - Right Sector+Maidan. In the nutshell: Yarosh calls for comlete change of the political elite and proclaims creation of country-wide RS posts for referendum, ends with casual "Ukraine uber alles".
It's unclear how many people attend, but obviously the numbers are manyfold less than it was when Maidan was a hot plate.

[mirhond]

Ukrainian Index Librorum Prohibitorum: 38 Russian books - 5 are action, 12 are crackpot political speculations (their authors are known weirdos), several looks like analitics (I have no idea what are they in reality) and only the last one is real stuff.

http://obozrevatel.com/politics/21954-v-ukraine-zapretili-vvoz-38-rossijskih-knig.htm


Федор Березин "Украинский фронт. Красные звезды над Майданом".
Федор Березин "Война 2010. Украинский фронт" Москва: Яуза, Эксмо, 2009,
Георгий Савицкий "Поле боя-Украина. Сломанный трезубец".
Глеб Бобров "Украина в огне".
Михаил Белозеров "Украинский гамбит. Война 2015".
Александр Север "Русско-украинские войны", Яуза-Пресс, 2009.
Александр Дугин "Украина. Моя война. Геополитический дневник". Издательство "Алгоритм". Серия "Битва за Россию".ISBN978-5-227-05690-0; 2015.
Александр Дугин "Евразийский реванш России". Издательство "Алгоритм". Серия "Битва за Россию". ISBN978-5-4438-0855-0; 2014.
Валерий Коровин "Конец проекта "Украина". Издательство "Питер".ISBN978-5-496-01448-9; 2015.
. Николай Стариков "Украина. Хаос и революция- оружие доллара". Издательство "Питер". ISBN978-5-496-01300-0; 2014.
Николай Стариков, Дмитрий Беляев "Россия. Крым. История". Издательство "Питер".ISBN978-5-496-01363-5; 2015.
Александр Север "Бандера и бандеровщина". Издательство "Алгоритм". Серия "Титаны и тираны".ISBN978-5-4438-0744-7; 2014.
Андрей Фурсов. "Холодный восточный ветер русской весны". Издательство " Книжный мир". Серия "Игры мировых элит".ISBN978-5-8041-0707-0; 2014.
Эдуард Лимонов "Киев капут". Издательство "Центрполиграф". ISBN978-5-227-05727-3; 2015.
Сергей Доренко "Донбасс - дымовая завеса Путина?". Составитель О.Селин. Издательство "Алгоритм". Серия: "Политические тайны ХХІ века, Проект Путин". ISBN978-5-4438-0922-5; 2014.
Сергей Глазьев "Украинская катастрофа. От американской агрессии к мировой войне?". Издательство "Книжный мир". Серия "Коллекция Изборского клуба". ISBN978-5-8041-0727-8; 2015.
Наталия Нарочницкая "Сосредоточение России. Битва за русский мир". Издательство "Книжный мир". Серия "Коллекция Изборского клуба". ISBN978-5-8041-0726-1; 2015.
Александр Нагорный, Владимир Винников "Глобальный треугольник. Россия-США-Китай. От разрушения СССР до Евромайдана. Хроники будущего". Издательство "Книжный мир". Серия "Коллекция Изборского клуба". ISBN978-5-8041-0729-2; 2015.
Составитель Елена Семенова. Авторы: Игорь Михеев, Вениамин Башлачев, Людмила Фионова, А. Самарин, Юрий Лисовский, Е. Семенова, А. Жучковский, Михаил назаров, елена Чудинова, Д. Соколов " Евромайдан и русская весна. История, факты, аналитика". Антология. Серия: библиотека журнала "Голос Эпохи". Издательство "Книжный мир". Серия "Коллекция Изборского клуба".ISBN978-5-9905732-1-5; 2014.
Марина Ахметова "Уроки украинского. От Майдана до Востока". Издательство АСТ. ISBN978-5-9905732-1-5; 2014.
Лев Вершинин "Евромайдан. Кто уничтожил Украину?". Издательство "Алгоритм". Серия "политический компромат".ISBN978-5-4438-0887-1; 2014.
Юрий Мухин " Как натравить Украину на Россию". Миф о "Сталинском Голодоморе". Издательство "Яуза-каталог". Серия "Информационная война". Максим Калашников, Сергей Бунтовский "Сверхчеловек говорит по-русски".
Максим Калашников, Сергей Бунтовский "Код Путина".
Максим Калашников, Сергей Бунтовский "Независимая Украина: крах проекта". Издательство АСТ, 2010.
Максим Калашников, Сергей Бунтовский "Вперед в СССР-2".
Максим Калашников, Сергей Бунтовский "Геноцид русского народа".
Максим Калашников, Сергей Бунтовский "Цунами 2010-х годов".
Максим Калашников, Сергей Бунтовский "Сверхчеловек говорит по-русски".
Сергей Бунтовский "Украина от Адама до Януковича. Очерки истории". Издательство "Донбасс". Серия: Библиотека Донбасской Руси. 2014.
Смирнов А.С. "Проект Новороссия. История русской окраины". Издательство "Алгоритм". ISBN978-5-4438-1017-1; 2015.
Родин С.С. "Поводыри украинского сепаратизма. Конспирология "самостийничества". Издательство Русского Имперского Движения (СПб.).ISBN978-5-8041-0332-4. 2014.
Кочетков А. "Кровавые преступления бандеровской хунты". Издательство: "Книжный мир". Серия: Библиотека Антимайдана.ISBN978-5-0759-9.
Козлов А.В. "Вся правда об Украинской повстанческой армии (УПА)". Издательство "Вече". Серия: Вся правда о войне.ISBN978-5-4444-1747-8;2014.
Катасонов В.Ю. "Украина: Экономика смуты, или Деньги на крови". Издательство "Книжный мир".ISBN978-5-8041-0720-9;2014.
Родин С.С. "Отрекаясь от русского имени. Украинская химера: Историческое расследование. Происхождение, подлинная история и реальное настоящее"Украины" и ""украинцев". Издательство "Крымский мост-9Д Форум". Серия: Великое противостояние.ISBN5-89747-0634;2006.
Родин С.С. "Украинцы". Издательство: Русского Имперского Движения(СПб.). ISBN5-87774-063-4;2010.
Козлов Ю.К. "Бандеризация Украины-главная угроза для России". Издательство "Яуза-пресс". Серия: Угрозы России. ISBN978-5-903339-77-8; 2008.
Дюков А.Р. "Массовые нарушения прав человека в ходе гражданского противостояния на Украине, 2013-2014 гг.: Годовой отчет IGCP". Издательство: Издательский центр фонда "историческая память".ISBN978-5-9990-0036-1; 2015.

[kaur]

mirhond, my supplier of interesting stuff, in what sense the last one is real stuff?

[mirhond]

mirhond, my supplier of interesting stuff, in what sense the last one is real stuff?

In any practical sence, If you are familiar with this concept.

[kaur]

mirhond, yesterday after approaching your suggestion critically and doing the Google search of authors for 10 minutes, I'm just wondering why you picked out from the list report which co-author is SVR officer. This is classical active measures product you are suggesting. Thanks for opening the new horizons and adding new case to the list of Russian propaganda tricks.

http://igcp.eu/sites/default/files/monitoringi/igcpannualreportrus.pdf

Go to Google and write there the surname of third author beginning with Ermol and SVR. Both in Russian. If you write both names in English, also additional info comes out from Google Books. I didn't have time to Google other authors. Any comments? Are you working with those guys :eek:

mirhond, your example shows nothing has changed in Russian system. Just some new names like Russia Today have appeared.

http://jmw.typepad.com/propaganda_course/files/soviet_organizational_structure.pdf

[mirhond]

Go to Google and write there the surname of third author beginning with Ermol and SVR. Both in Russian. If you write both names in English, also additional info comes out from Google Books. I didn't have time to Google other authors. Any comments? Are you working with those guys :eek:

http://jmw.typepad.com/propaganda_course/files/soviet_organizational_structure.pdf

D. Y. Ermolaev_SVR +Google =


In Ukraine detained officers of SVR and GRU of Russia, - Parubiy
news.pn/en/politics/101633 - Cached

Rating: 3 - 2,517 votes
14 Apr 2014 ... In Ukraine detained officers of SVR and GRU of Russia, - Parubiy. Online: {{ reading || 0 }}Read:{{ views ... the "fattest" assets. Andrey Ermolaev ...
Strange. Beauty. — SvR Design Company
www.svrdesign.com/blog/2013/10/strange-beauty - Cached
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Независимый форум о Российской общественной инициативе ...
oroi.ru/viewforum.php?f=10&start=100 - Cached
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Daniel Ermolaev - YouTube
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International film and TV Festival «DetectiveFEST»
www.detectivefest.ru/.../index.php%3Fc%3Dart%26id%3D53125 - Cached
«Six Bullets in a Gun», M. Ermolaev. Russia. «Jiulianhuan», Zhongshi Bo .... Russia. «Guard. History of a Profession», SVR of MoI in the Rostov Region. Russia.
Юбилей - drive.net
https://www.drive.net/l/2471446/ - Cached
Krendel-fromUSSR last online 11 hours ago. Sergei Ermolaev, 25 years old ... SVR-Vovka last online 20 hours ago. Reply to comment by StaffBull, added a year ...
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https://www.facebook.com/temalebedev/posts/10152916519851095 - Cached
Remove. Evgeny Svr это то ладно, больше настораживает подмена, например, охрана-секьюрити, универмаг .... Artem Ermolaev Ты просто старпер.
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27 Jan 2015 ... ... by former SVR agents as an organization that is sometimes used by ...... V. Ermolaev, M. Kiperman, E. Zviagilskiy, F. Zhebrovskaya, S. Ronis, ...
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17 мар 2014 ... Виталий Ануфриев. Бля, а есть caw на svr 2011 psp. 17 мар 2014| ... Danila Ermolaev. долбоебы!!! Смех ржач ...gif 3Mb · 17 мар 2014| ...
[PDF] JAPANESE SPECIES OF THE ACROCERCOPS-GROUP ...
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based on material from Japan and U.S.S.R. are attributed to Kumata and Ermolaev, and the other new species to Kumata and Kuroko. MATERIAL AND TYPE- ...
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pampallc.com/files/harvoni-ledipasvir-i-sofosbuvir.php - Cached
The second trial showed 99 percent of such participants with and without cirrhosis achieved SVR after 12 weeks. And in the third trial, which examined Harvonis ...
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thelemondropteam.com/17527-how-do-police-track-cell-phones-using-imei/ - Cached
Svr asked the private data to artyom ermolaev adds. Icon, said furjanic hide from operating. Many people put out on. Chiefs insist it will stop binmen having to ...
Brilliant NOZHAN - Pinterest
https://in.pinterest.com/nozhanfrouzande/brilliant/
Stormwater planters on Maynard green street, Seattle by SvR Design Co. ... Ash Rivers, Andrew Ermolaev, Iceland, Beauty Rivers, Inspiration, Nature, Aerial ...

Come on, you have to understand that "my" Google is a special Google for KGB agents - it does not whistle. May be your democratic Google gives you completely different search results :)

Anyway, even If this "Ermolaev" guy is a SVR agent or whatever, your argument is still Ad Hominem Fallacy.

[OUTLAW 09]

Ukrainian Index Librorum Prohibitorum: 38 Russian books - 5 are action, 12 are crackpot political speculations (their authors are known weirdos), several looks like analitics (I have no idea what are they in reality) and only the last one is real stuff.

http://obozrevatel.com/politics/21954-v-ukraine-zapretili-vvoz-38-rossijskih-knig.htm

What a waste of time and commenter space----

[kaur]

mirhond, my fallacy expert, check out my Google results.

http://www.bns.lv/ru/topic/1906/news/49840325/

http://www.kompromat.lv/item.php?docid=readn&id=8065

[mirhond]

mirhond, my fallacy expert, check out my Google results.

http://www.bns.lv/ru/topic/1906/news/49840325/

http://www.kompromat.lv/item.php?docid=readn&id=8065

1. You have to bring evidence that this Dmitriy Ermolaev and author of the report D. Yu. Ermolaev is the same person. (although its quite probably)
2. Even if it is true, this fact itself does not make your Ad Hominem argument less fallacious. ;)

[kaur]

1. IGCP has their own youtube channel. They are making their own films. Longest films are 20 something minutes long. In the end of movies there is title "coordinator of project" and name Dmitri Ermolaev.

For example at 23.25 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GdKQWm4Yruw

How many "journalists" with the same name you can find in Moscow?

2. Why SVR officer is making films and reports about Ukraine? Just hobby?

3. Why you are promoting this kind of report and organisation?

[kaur]

Wow, mirhond, you made my day! This Ermolaev is really interesting man. From the first link you can find he is working for Rosvesty newspaper. Some googleing and take a look what this Rosvesty wrote just 2 days before green men (RF soldiers) appearance in Crimea. Rosvesty tells readers that Right sector intends to attack bordering Russian Federation districts. Dejavu with Hitler's behaviour before attacking Poland in 1939. Hitler orchestrated border incidents and II WW was started. This guy is pure provocator!


Украинские националисты готовят поход на Россию
Armenia Today [ 25.02.2014 | 17:37 ] Политика , В мире

По информации «Riga.Rosvesty», «Правый сектор» планирует добиваться назначения своего лидера Дмитрия Яроша главой Службы безопасности Украины (СБУ). На этом посту Ярош предполагает сосредоточить свои усилия не только на подавлении любого инакомыслия на Востоке и Юго-востоке Украины, в Крыму, но и проводить с использованием подразделений СБУ в приграничных областях активную подрывную деятельность против России. Об этом отмечает "Riga.Rosvesty" (Латвия).

По мнению Яроша, приоритетом «закордонной» деятельности СБУ под его руководством должна стать дестабилизация обстановки в Воронежской, Белгородской и Курской областях с дальнейшим их возможным отрывом от России. Ярош считает, что интересам развития Украины отвечает дезинтеграция России.

http://www.armtoday.info/default.asp?Lang=_Ru&NewsID=105699

Do you remember rumours in Crimea about Right sector coming to town in train? Those rumors appeared 26.02. What didn't arrive was Right sector, but RF armed forces were already there. Another provocation?

http://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=1323847#

Komsomolskaya Pravda spread the rumours also 25.02.14.

http://m.kp.ru/daily/26198/3085974/

[mirhond]

1. IGCP has their own youtube channel. They are making their own films. Longest films are 20 something minutes long. In the end of movies there is title "coordinator of project" and name Dmitri Ermolaev.

How many "journalists" with the same name you can find in Moscow?

2. Why SVR officer is making films and reports about Ukraine? Just hobby?

3. Why you are promoting this kind of report and organisation?

Here, read a pair of a kool stories about this guy:


Каплю истории Мы не могли пройти мимо такой подозрительной «упертости» и проведя журналистское расследование, вот что выяснили. Как показывают факты, все началось с того, что некий господин, скрывающийся под псевдонимом Сергей Владимиров, а на самом деле Дмитрий Ермолаев (по его утверждению, сотрудник Внешней разведки РФ), был уволен из этой структуры «за любовь к правде и справедливости…» Тут же, почувствовав острую необходимость в деньгах и одновременно отвращение к физическому труду, Ермолаев решил монетизировать свои писательские навыки и обратился к ветеранам московской журналистики, имевшим права на виртуальную газету с исключительно брендовым названием — «Российские вести». Профессиональные журналисты, будучи людьми склонными к сентиментальности (особенно, после «третьей» не закусывая), решили приютить неудавшегося «Штирлица» и позволили ему писать от имени газеты. Старые рыцари пера и «орала» не подозревали, в какие непролазные джунгли лжи и предательства затянет их издание этот «баблосос». А он, не тратя времени даром, обратился к своему старому знакомому по прежней работе - Главному редактору

http://netsekretov.info/postpeople/236




Анализ публикаций Riga.Rosvesty.ru показывает, что газета вбрасывает эксклюзивную информацию с целью повлиять на политическую ситуацию в Латвии. Например, в материале, рассказывающем о саммите НАТО в Риге, говорится о «неких источниках». Чуть ранее издание поместило обширное интервью Дмитрия Ермолаева с послом России в Латвии Виктором Калюжным (по неофициальным данным, во время работы в Латвии Ермолаев являлся доверенным лицом посла, непосредственно способствовашим контактам с транзитным бизнесом Латвии в целом и Вентспилса в частности.).В бытность свою третьим секретарём посольства Российской Федерации (2002-2005 г.г.) в Латвии Дмитрий Ермолаев (30) неоднократно бывал замечен за рулём пьяным, демонстративно игнорировал правила дорожного движения, неразборчиво вступал в связи с женщинами, угощал незнакомых людей алкоголем за свой счёт, а также пытался втереться в доверие к представителям латвийской банковской и транзитной элиты. Отметим, что с 30-х годов прошлого века позиция именно третьего секретаря посольства обычно резервировалась за КГБ.

http://www.kompromat.lv/item.php?docid=readn&id=2943

Ok, you beat me - this dude says he is a former SVR agent, ergo this is true, everybody knows Russian spies never lie. There is one good evidence he is real agent - he has Diplomatic academy education.

2. Oh-so real "SVR officer" just doing his job, obviously.

3. How my motives are relevant to the subject?

ps. Your "SVR agent" - based argument is still fallacy. Do everyone a favor and find any non-fallacious arguments against IGCP reports.
Yours, Captain Obvious.

[mirhond]

Break for a joke.

Putin's goons around the world, according to the Ukrainian site "Злочинець" (Criminal)

http://zlochinec.kyiv.ua/category/agents/

1. Marine Le Pen
2. Aleksis Cipras
3. Miloš Zeman
7. Xi Jinping
8. Valéry Giscard d’Éstaing
9. Donald Trump
10. Nicolas Sarkozy

Most notorious enemies, traitors and terrorists are also present. Putin is absent, though. That's because his malevolence, cruelty, cunning and magic powers are so great that creators of the site didn't dare even to mention his dark eminence. :)

[mirhond]

OK. break is over.
Mobilisation plan in Lvovskaya oblast' (Western Ukraine) accomplished by 47%, 11 000 draft dodgers are on the run.

http://www.unian.net/society/1111396-vo-lvovskoy-oblasti-plan-shestoy-volnyi-mobilizatsii-vyipolnen-na-47-prokuratura.html

[kaur]

ps. Your "SVR agent" - based argument is still fallacy. Do everyone a favor and find any non-fallacious arguments against IGCP reports.
Yours, Captain Obvious.

Just 1 example for fallacy expert :) IGCP report says that OCSE saw terrible crimes in Donbas. OSCE says that they were not there.


23#сентября стало известно об обнаружении ополченцами серии за-
хоронений в#районе шахты №#22#«Коммунар» под Донецком. После об-
следования одного из них судмедэксперты пришли к#заключению, что
найденные в#нем люди, одетые в#гражданскую одежду, со связанными
за спиной руками, были убиты выстрелами в#голову с#близкого расстоя-
ния. Среди убитых#– женщина на девятом месяце беременности. Страш-
ные находки зафиксировали и#представители ОБСЕ, которые прибыли
к# местам массовых захоронений, провели осмотр захоронений. Опол-
ченцами найдены и#другие захоронения, которые не были вскрыты 882

Source for this is


882 Массовые захоронения в# зоне АТО и# призрак расследования преступлений. URL: http://rian.
com.ua/analytics/20140929/357630617.html. Существует видео, снятое ополченцами непосред ственно при обнаружении захоронений на шахте «Коммунар». См.: «Видеодневники ополчен-
ца Константина Трифонова. Часть 2». URL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6dKaOmY7E0.#Бо-
лее позднее видео см.: К# захоронениям в# селе Нижняя Крынка мониторинговую миссию
ОБСЕ привели сепаратисты. URL: http://news.bigmir.net/ukraine/847696-Missiya-OBSE-nashlamassovoe-zahoronenie-v-shahte-na-Donbasse.

Read this.


Monday, August 17, 2015
Ukraine

Murders and Gang Rapes: Moscow Spins OSCE Probe Into Ukraine 'Mass Graves'

Russian state media are abuzz with accusations of murder and gang-rape levelled against government forces in eastern Ukraine by a purported Western monitor.

The charges stem from Einars Graudins, a Latvian political activist who, according to Russian media reports, is part of a team of international monitors dispatched to eastern Ukraine by the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE).

The "OSCE expert" is also widely quoted as claiming that hundreds of bodies have been exhumed from mass graves in the Donetsk region.

The problem is, Graudins has never worked for the OSCE.

http://www.rferl.org/content/ukraine-unspun-osce-probe-murders-gang-rapes-mass-graves/26615896.html

This Graudinsh happens to be also from Latvia, like Ermolaev's past.

What Amnesty International says?


The discovery of ‘mass graves’ in the Donetsk region
On 23 September Russian media reported the discoveries of “mass graves” in Komunar and Nyzhnya Krynka, two adjacent villages in the Donetsk Region, which until two days previously, had been held by Kyiv-controlled forces. They described the discovery of women’s bodies with signs of torture and the body of a pregnant woman. Russia’s Foreign Minister, Sergei Lavrov, was reported later as saying that more than 400 bodies had been discovered in the graves in this area and calling for international investigations.
An Amnesty International delegation visited the area on 26 September. The delegation found strong evidence implicating Kyiv-controlled forces in the extrajudicial executions of four men buried in two graves near the village of Komunar. Five further bodies buried in a single grave nearby were revealed to belong to separatist fighters. Amnesty International spoke to members of their unit who said they had been killed in the course of hostilities.
“The reality behind Russian claims of ‘mass graves’ in Nyzhnya Krynka is grizzly enough. It points to extra-judicial killing of four local residents by either regular Ukrainian armed forces or volunteer battalions operating in the area. These must now be investigated thoroughly. But it also shows the extent to which accusations of abuses are being inflated, particularly by the Russian authorities, in the parallel propaganda war,” said John Dalhuisen.

http://www.amnestyusa.org/news/news-item/eastern-ukraine-conflict-summary-killings-misrecorded-and-misreported

Graudinsh, Ermolaev, Rossiskie Vesti. mirhond, do you remember when Putin was elected back there was international wing for Narodny Front called International Rossiya. One moment there was split and Ermolaev left the organisation and established this body. Take a look who likes the stories :)

https://ru-ru.facebook.com/EvrazijskijNarodnyjFront

Soviet legacy is alive! Falin, who was part of Soviet active measures apparatus was head of International Rossiya expert council.


15 октября 2011 возглавил экспертный совет международного комитета международного движения «Интернациональная Россия».

https://ru.wikipedia.orgwiki/Фалин,_Валентин_Михайлович

[Dishonesty]

Mirhond,
Russian troops desert army over Ukraine conflict!!!

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2015/08/russian-troops-desert-army-ukraine-conflict-150811024648031.html

[kaur]

mirhond, one Russian spetzpropaganda (in English Psyops?) student tells about his studies and tricks. Suits to my example context.


Вот например метод «гнилой селедки». Работает так. Подбирается ложное обвинение. Важно, чтобы оно было максимально грязным и скандальным. Хорошо работает, например, мелкое воровство, или, скажем, растление детей, или убийство, желательно из жадности.

Цель «гнилой селедки» вовсе не в том, чтобы обвинение доказать. А в том, чтобы вызвать широкое, публичное обсуждение его… НЕсправедливости и НЕоправданности.

Человеческая психика устроена так, что, как только обвинение становится предметом публичного обсуждения, неизбежно возникают его «сторонники» и «противники», «знатоки» и «эксперты», оголтелые «обвинители» и ярые «защитники» обвиняемого.

Но вне зависимости от своих взглядов все участники дискуссии снова и снова произносят имя обвиняемого в связке с грязным и скандальным обвинением, втирая таким образом все больше «гнилой селедки» в его «одежду», пока наконец этот «запах» не начинает следовать за ним везде. А вопрос «убил-украл-совратил или все-таки нет» становится главным при упоминании его имени.

http://www.sguschenka.com/propaganda/

Forgot the Falin's link. Take a look at the tasks :) http://jmw.typepad.com/propaganda_course/files/soviet_organizational_structure.pdf

[mirhond]

Just 1 example for fallacy expert :) IGCP report says that OCSE saw terrible crimes in Donbas. OSCE says that they were not there.


Praise Allah, The Mercyful, now you understand how an argument works! :D

So, you have discovered that 1 (one) piece of IGCP reports is exaggerated and looks more like sh!tstorm trigger. Anything else?


mirhond, one Russian spetzpropaganda (in English Psyops?) student tells about his studies and tricks. Suits to my example context.


I prefer not to be bothered with such trivial matter, you don't need to explain me "propaganda 101" here, really. You have a special thread for this.
ps. You, a Novice in the Art of an Reasonable and Cogent Argument, please stay vigilant and don't waste your mental powers on irrelevant data, or you'll never become a Master of The Art ! :)



Mirhond,
Russian troops desert army over Ukraine conflict!!!

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2015/08/russian-troops-desert-army-ukraine-conflict-150811024648031.html

"Troops deserted" is a quite strong definition in this case. I'd rather say "several soldiers" who don't like to risk their lives for some piece o'crap.

[kaur]

mirhond, I have spend enough valuable time today to make argument. You got it. Good. I have no time to go through the whole SVR guy's book. Like propaganda student said, this is the purpose to make us talk, talk and talk. I don't buy your offer :)

[kaur]

This comment by Stasi suits well to describe IGCP paper mirhond is promoting. It takes full time job to sort out truth, half-truth and fiction Russians are cooking somewhere in Moscow :mad:


The East German Ministry for State Security, the security and
intelligence service known as MfS or Stasi, played an important role in
Soviet disinformation strategy. An official report to Minister Erich
Mielke in 1969 explained, “One can select actual events, problems etc.
using a mixture of truths, half-truths, fiction and other purposeful, well
crafted interpretations which seem credible to the recipient and [thus]
attain the desired impression. Exact knowledge of conditions within the
particular government in the operational area is imperative. Absolutely
necessary is thorough knowledge of western language use, as well as
psychological, sensitive tactic in approach.”

http://jmw.typepad.com/files/strategicinfluenceclass_copy.pdf

CEPI think tank makes a try.


Ukrainian crisis: The most frequent myths and lies

Disinformation, falsehoods and facts taken out of context thwart Czech and Slovak debates on the Ukrainian crisis and the Russian aggressive involvement. The public is exposed to unprecedented volume of propaganda distorting the truth, and having pathological effects on our societies and political systems.

http://www.cepolicy.org/publications/ukrainian-crisis-most-frequent-myths-and-lies

[mirhond]

This comment by Stasi suits well to describe IGCP paper mirhond is promoting. It takes full time job to sort out truth, half-truth and fiction Russians are cooking somewhere in Moscow.


Oh yes, data won't sort and analise itself. :)
Thanks for the first paper - it's really useful.

[kaur]

You are welcome! I doubt there is something new for hardened Moscow propaganda teams ;)

[kaur]

Krymnash enthusiasts from Putin on down have offered such “a multitude of justifications for the seizure of Crimea” that is difficult to avoid the suspicion that many of them are simply being put out without much confidence that anyone will believe them

But there are two claims, which continue to be offered as explanations for why Moscow had to act and which have to be examined:

- that ethnic Russian residents in Crimea were threatened with a genocide and that if Moscow did nothing,

- NATO would put bases in Crimea.

Neither of these notions stands up, Popov says.

http://windowoneurasia2.blogspot.be/2015/08/fourth-putin-myth-about-crimean.html

Take a look what Hitler told 1939 about border incidents.

[Firn]

Indeed both Hitler and Stalin felt the urge to fabricate a farce to be able to 'shoot back', one in Gleiwitz, the other around Mainila.


On 26 November 1939, a border incident was reported near the village of Mainila. A Soviet border guard post had been shelled by an unknown party resulting, according to Soviet reports, in the deaths of four and injuries of nine border guards. Research conducted by several Finnish and Russian historians later concluded that the shelling was carried out from the Soviet side of the border by an NKVD unit with the purpose of providing the Soviet Union with a casus belli and a pretext to withdraw from the non-aggression pact.[71][F 12]

From good old Wikipedia.


Russian President Vladimir Putin said on 14 March 2013 at a meeting with military historians that Stalin launched the war to "correct mistakes" made in drawing the border with Finland after the 1917 Bolshevik revolution.[77]

Sounds quite familiar....

----------------------------------------------------

Rather fitting that his Russia gave us recently another homage to Stalin (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/aug/25/russian-court-jails-ukrainian-filmmaker-oleg-sentsov-for-20-years-over-terror-offences):


Russian court has sentenced the Ukrainian film director Oleg Sentsov to 20 years in prison after a trial described by Amnesty International as “redolent of Stalinist-era show trials”.

......

The trial was littered with irregularities: Sentsov said he had been tortured, while investigators dismissed the bruises on his body as being the result of a supposed penchant for sadomasochistic sex. The main prosecution witness recanted in the courtroom and said his evidence had been extorted under torture. He said no “acts of terrorism” were ever committed except for an arson incident in which nobody was injured and Sentsov denied involvement.

I confess their defiance was rather touching as was their overall courage in face of it all.

[kaur]

Reading here Louis Budenz's book "Techniques of Communism" (1954), where former insider tells how Soviets use and abuse of minority groups. There is subsection "Communists and the Negro". This blacks in US lever reminds me very much how Kremlin is using Russians lever in neigbouring countries.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_F._Budenz


There are two chief reasons why the Negro question is considered important for the conspiracy. First of all, it can be the occasion for the crating those"contradictions" or division within this country that would have serious consequenses if Communist propaganda were to prevail.

The second leading reason for Communist interest in Negro is the effect that reports of discrimination in the USA can produce among the Asiatic and African peoples.

Pemanent talk about discrimination fo Russian compatriots via Russian channels. Second point is classical Russian battle cry "наших бьют" in English our guys get beaten. This helps to rally Russians in other countries and in RF. Most of the times this is unproved, but emotional atmosphere is created.


This leads us to the second reason for the Communist persistence in holding to the objective of a "Negro nation". A moment's thought will bring out the violence and turmoil that would follow any loud raising of this issue, particularly in times of crisis. If the Soviet Union in its scheme for world domination were to attack the United States by military means, it would be of great aid to the Soviet armed forces if civil warfare were to break out in the United States. If Negroes themselves did nothing about this demand for nationhood, but if the Communists would rise it in such a form as to cause narrow,inded whites to assail the Negroes physically, Soviet purpose would be well served. From the Kremlin's viewpoint, the Negro is expendable.

Like Odessa tragedy, which was started by Russian provocators. In Crimea there were no Ukrainian nationalists, just rumors spread by Russia and local Russian agents.

From Kremlin's viewpoint, the Russian compatriot is expendable.

http://jmw.typepad.com/files/budenz-use-and-abuse-of-minority-groups.pdf

At least 1970 Andropov asked pemission to use Negros card in KGB operations.

http://psi.ece.jhu.edu/~kaplan/IRUSS/BUK/GBARC/pdfs/usa/ter70-2.pdf

[mirhond]

Usual day in the Ukr. army.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoqSCXlE_4U

bonus vid.
Drive safely!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_veNdO257I



Like Odessa tragedy, which was started by Russian provocators.

Yeah, blame the victim, it always works.

[mirhond]

"Svoboda" party activist threw a grenade, killing three policemen, during radicals protest against "traitors in Rada" that happened yesterday.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?t=59&v=aKqh1m-nbCc

[davidbfpo]

A suspect arrested at the scene was identified as Ihor Humeniuk, a member of the Svoboda party and the Sich volunteer battalion who was on leave from the war in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions. The fact that both the attacker and the victims were part of organisations established to fight in defence of the country makes the deaths particularly shocking for Ukrainians.
Link:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/11836158/Second-Ukrainian-policeman-dies-from-injuries-after-deadly-Kiev-clashes.html

[mirhond]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACHH4G08wCQ

An interview with D. Marunich, Ukrainian economist, who looks like knowing a thing or two about energy grid. Most of the time he talks about quite probable blackout, one thing particulary catched my interest - at 21:30 he says that Tripolsky coal power plant near Kiev is still online and it works on antracite from Donbass. War is war, business is business.

[davidbfpo]

A Ukrainian author's comment on events in Kiev: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/02/kiev-violence-ukraine-crisis-russia

Now this I found strange, the second sentence:
Kolomoisky is considered to be an enemy of President Poroshenko since he was sacked from his position as governor of the Dnipropetrovsk region. Kolomoisky’s man in Odessa, Igor Palitsa, also lost his job as governor and was replaced by the former president of Georgia, Mikheil Saakashvili.

[mirhond]

A

Now this I found strange, the second sentence:

Kolomoisky is considered to be an enemy of President Poroshenko since he was sacked from his position as governor of the Dnipropetrovsk region. Kolomoisky’s man in Odessa, Igor Palitsa, also lost his job as governor and was replaced by the former president of Georgia, Mikheil Saakashvili.

Huh, what partuculary strange in this sentence? It's comletely normal, since Ukrainan ruling class is divided by competing rings of oligarсhs, Poroshenko vs. Kolomoiski is just most typical example. How many bulldogs under the carpet are there - we'll never know. Kolomoisky clique is loosing, their private armies are dissolved and major assets are seized - this is for sure.

[kaur]

Window on Eurasia continues myth busting. This time the topic is Kremlin's fascist rhetoric.


This week’s article in Popov’s series is especially important because he devotes particular attention not only to why the Kremlin has been pushing the falsehood that the Maidan represented some kind of “fascist junta” but also to why so many Russians, including members of the intelligentsia, have been willing to accept that absurdity.

The most important feature of Putin’s hybrid war against Ukraine is the fact that “its information component exceeds its physical component geographically.” In such an information war, Popov argues, “success is measured not by the number of cities seized and soldiers of the opponent killed but by the number of victims in the population … that can be hung on it.”

That makes the charge of fascism so useful that it is “beyond any competition” because it “designates an evil without cause or motivation.” Popov cites the words of Russian journalist Andrey Lipsky who says that “for the overwhelming majority of Soviet people” who suffered from World War II, “fascism is an unqualified diabolical symbol of inhumanity, cruelty and aggression” (novayagazeta.ru/politics/62934.html).

Fascism is so evil that the usual rules about mercy and forgiveness do not apply, but it is also the case that at least in Russia, when fascism is mentioned, “the laws of cause and effect” don’t either, as when pro-Kremlin writers like Sergey Markov insist that pro-Moscow actions were the result of some action they deem necessary even though those actions happened before rather than after (inosmi.ru/sngbaltia/20141210/224829739.html?id=224836485).

http://windowoneurasia2.blogspot.be/2015/09/popov-demolishes-krymnash-myth-of.html

If you read study about Russia's activities in Baltics, then the anti-fascist rhetoric is used exactly the same way to manipulate mood among people in Baltics and inside Russia.


So-called “antifascists organizations” in the Baltic states are part of the France-registered World Without Nazism, a global group founded by the Russian ex-politician and billionaire Boris Shpigel, who has close ties with the Kremlin. Among the official aims of the organization is fighting against the rise of Nazism and fascist ideas. However, in reality, the group often is used as a tool for the Russian foreign policy. Its public statements tend to match the views of the Russian Foreign ministery.

http://www.rebaltica.lv/en/investigations/money_from_russia/a/1257/kremlins_millions.html

I'm really glad Window on Eurasia is translating ej.ru articles. To my knowledge this site is blocked by Russian authorities. Mirhond can correct me.

[mirhond]

To my knowledge this site is blocked by Russian authorities. Mirhond can correct me.

Nope, this site is completely accessible.

News: special blend for davidbfo

Kolomoiski calls Saakashvilli a dog:
http://ru.tsn.ua/politika/kolomoyskiy-o-saakashvili-kogda-sobaka-kusaet-nuzhno-nakazyvat-i-sobaku-i-hozyaina-481797.html

Saakasvilli calls Kolomoiski a remnant of a bandits past:
http://ru.tsn.ua/ukrayina/saakashvili-otvetil-kolomoyskomu-narod-ukazhet-perezhitkam-iz-banditskih-desyatiletiy-na-ih-mesto-482007.html

[kaur]

Thanks mirhond, good to know.

Former Czech active measures officer writes in his book "The KGB and Soviet Disinformation" in 1983.

[mirhond]

Spirit of a Great War:
Three Ukrainian paras got missed at Crimean border 06.09.2015
http://newsukraine.com.ua/news/525213-na-granice-s-krymom-ischezli-troe-ukrainskih-desantnikov-genshtab/

Three Ukrainian paras detained by border guards in Crimea
http://www.kommersant.ru/Doc/2805260

Those guys just wanted a small talk:

«Мы выпили вечером. Поспали, а наутро встали, позавтракали. Взяли арбуз, сало и спиртное и пошли брататься»
"We warmed up last night, then at the morning we took melon, lard and booze and went off to fraternise"

[kaur]

How on earth this Czech officer did managed to predict what Russian Duma speaker Matvienko will talk 8.9.2015? Article is in Russian. I'm sad Izvestia is not translating their articles :(

http://izvestia.ru/news/591109

[davidbfpo]

A reasonable overview from the BBC after the violence in Kiev:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34176602

[mirhond]

A reasonable overview from the BBC after the violence in Kiev:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34176602

This reasonable overview contains some bullsh!t:

1.
The deaths of three members of the national guard

those guys are policemen, not NG

2.
plans to give more autonomy to the country's Russian-supported separatist regions.

This draft of Constitution amendments has nothing to do with "more autonomy to separatist regions" - it talks about general principles of how the power structure and authority distribution in Ukraine should be arranged (self-governance is emphasised).
http://w1.c1.rada.gov.ua/pls/zweb2/webproc4_1?pf3511=55812

moreover, Poroshenko denies any "special status of Donbass"
http://www.theinsider.ua/rus/politics/55f0201beb25b/

the latter part of the article is no-nonsence, although trivial.

[mirhond]

http://www.ft.com/intl/fastft/402251/payday-ukraine-cds-holders-after-isda-ruling


Pay day approaches for investors who had bought protection against a government debt default by Ukraine.
The International Swaps and Derivatives Association said on Monday that Ukraine's deal with bondholders to restructure $18bn of debt constituted a credit event.
As such, holders of insurance on the country's sovereign debt (via so-called credit default swaps) can seek payment.
Ukraine recently agreed a restructuring deal with a group of international creditors holding around $9bn of the country's outstanding debt and this week the country's parliament backed the plan, which requires investors to accept a 20 per cent haircut on the face value of their bonds and pushing back debt repayment dates.
In August, credit rating agency S&P said that the exchange, which is part of a $40bn IMF rescue plan for the country, would classify as a default.


I'am not completely sure what all of this about, but it looks like Ukraine is going to have hard times with private loan holders.

Provided that war is burning out, external management for Ukraine is quite reasonable option.

[davidbfpo]

The blockade of the Crimea has appeared on SWC elsewhere (the war thread) or earlier in this thread.

Open Democracy have this commentary that the blockade does not help either the people living in the Crimea, notably the Tatars, or the Ukraine:https://www.opendemocracy.net/od-russia/anton-shekhovtsov/crimean-blockade-how-ukraine-is-losing-crimea-for-third-time

[mirhond]

https://www.opendemocracy.net/sean-guillory/ukraine-is-ripe-for-shock-doctrine


While a crisis of faith, of sorts, has resounded in western discourse on the economic effectiveness of austerity, this scepticism, rather ironically, dissipates when you cross over into the remnants of the Iron Curtain.

Neoliberalism’s flagellants reside east of the Elbe. There, ideological purity remains, if not redoubled. Former patients of shock therapy are now its most devoted converts. This was not only demonstrated by Estonian, Latvian, Lithuanian, Slovak, and Polish officials’ unyielding support for ‘tough reforms’ in Greece, but the general lack of sympathy among their populations for the Greek people. Past shock therapies have left them numb, docile, and inured to the calamities of neoliberal logics.

The neoliberal faith is expanding further eastward as well. The Ukrainian leadership have shown their unbridled readiness to exchange one master, Russia, for another: western finance and corporate capital. Even in light of the Troika’s ‘fiscal waterboarding’ of Greece and the utter failure of austerity as economic policy, the Ukrainian government is willing, even enthusiastic, to implement reforms prescribed by the IMF not only with the blind faith that they will stimulate economic recovery, but also in the name of ‘European values’, which are now subject to much scrutiny.

[kaur]

mirhond, if you don't live in "gas station", then you have to drag yourself out from the "end of golden age" somehow. Show me the other way than neoliberal. State railways fallen king turned academics (after ambassador episode ;) Yakunin has shown his way https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/are-sanctions-helping-russia-by-richard-a--werner-and-vladimir-i--yakunin-2015-10 This is also theory at the moment. In Russia there is another professor called presidential advisor Sergei Glazyev. His solution to revival of Russia and Eurasian project is working in Ukraine at the moment.

[mirhond]

mirhond, if you don't live in "gas station", then you have to drag yourself out from the "end of golden age" somehow. Show me the other way than neoliberal.

Your faith is strong and steadfast, I see, Thatcher bless you and Reagan smiles on you :D

[kaur]

mirhond, show me the working alternative and I'm glad. After reading this discussion even Russia's own bright heads can't see it.


И все же: сколько понадобится снова времени, чтобы слезть с волны самодержавия и несвободы?

Гуриев: Я остаюсь оптимистом — все будет нормально, но не в ближайшие несколько лет. Завтра будет хуже, чем сегодня, но послезавтра будет совсем хорошо.

Аузан: Я думаю, что при нашей жизни начнутся изменения, но это будет очень длительный процесс. В России были только одни длинные реформы — реформы царя Александра II. Вот я бы очень хотел, чтобы мы опять вошли в длинную волну реформ. Потому что с короткой волной мы все время будем повторять одну и ту же картинку. Если мы это сделаем, то шанс на успех — 10–12%, если ничего не будем делать — ноль.

http://www.newtimes.ru/articles/detail/103328

[kaur]

mirhond, it seems you share the thoughts mentioned here.


One of the main conclusions of the workshop is that political liberalism as an ideology and as a political thought in Russia has been largely discredited. Western countries and international organizations have probably underestimated the trauma of the collapse of the Soviet Union, which instilled in a significant part of the Russian public a distrust toward liberalism, there understood as an ideological justification to destroy the Soviet Welfare state. This disqualification of political liberalism, associated by the Russian public opinion with neoliberal economic practices responsible for huge socioeconomic inequalities, contributes largely, today, to the call within Russia for a return to a Great Power status.

We need to remember that a large part of the Russian society has been calling for Russia’s international prestige and a comeback to some Soviet practices and conservative values since the early 1990s – with the electoral successes of the Communist Party for instance – long before “greatpowerness” and conservatism became the flagship of Putin’s third mandate. Indeed, for part of the public opinion, Russia’s greatpowerness is synonym for a strong state domestically, capable of reinstating a paternalistic social-economic order.

http://www.resetdoc.org/story/00000022596

[mirhond]

mirhond, show me the working alternative and I'm glad. After reading this discussion even Russia's own bright heads can't see it.

http://www.newtimes.ru/articles/detail/103328

You know, I almost always laugh when venerable economists talk about history: for many of them the real world is a subcase of some crackpot economic theory, they really don't bother with facts and data. But thanks, anyway, I'll put this in my collection.


mirhond, it seems you share the thoughts mentioned here.


We need to remember that a large part of the Russian society has been calling for Russia’s international prestige and a comeback to some Soviet practices and conservative values since the early 1990s – with the electoral successes of the Communist Party for instance – long before “greatpowerness” and conservatism became the flagship of Putin’s third mandate. Indeed, for part of the public opinion, Russia’s greatpowerness is synonym for a strong state domestically, capable of reinstating a paternalistic social-economic order. http://www.resetdoc.org/story/00000022596

Captain Obvious rescued us again, but this stuff does not belong to this thread, actually. Copy this to the relevant thread, please.

Moderator Adds

I have copied Posts 627-632 to the main Russain economy thread, as requested (ends).

[davidbfpo]

For several months now activists have blockaded the land access routes into the Crimea (see Post 413) and I have seen little recent reporting on this, let alone the impact.

The Daily Telegraph reports:
A state of emergency has been declared in Crimea after pylons carrying electricity from Ukraine were blown up cutting off power to almost two million people, media and the Russian government said on Sunday. The Russian Energy Ministry didn't say what had caused the outages, but Russian media reported that two pylons in the Kherson region of Ukraine north of Crimea had been blown up by Ukrainian nationalists.It would appear the Ukrainian state could not stop this happening:
On Saturday, the pylons were the scene of violent clashes between activists from the Right Sector nationalist movement and paramilitary police, Ukrainian media reported.
The pylons had already been damaged by the activists on Friday before they were blown up on Saturday night, according to these reports.Link:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/12010289/Crimea-plunged-into-darkness.html

I cannot think of anything more likely to get the Russian Army moving west, ostensibly to "restore order and power".

Given the state of relations I do wonder if the electricity provided, which I assume is from Ukrainian generators was being paid for. IIRC there was a map long ago showing the interconnectivity of the Russian and Ukrainian power grids.

Added: The BBC has some more information:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34893493

[OUTLAW 09]

Ukraine activists (Tatars) prevent repair on power lines to #Russia(n) occupied #Crimea
https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://gazeta.ua/ru/articles/np/_remontnikov-ne-podpuskayut-k-elektroliniyam-v-krym/661093&prev=search … pic.twitter.com/UNPLGAmnGt

Video: #Ukraine sends units to secure destroyed #Crimea power lines last night.Not equipped for crowd control, leave
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0HykyuHq50 …

[Firn]

We did (http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/showpost.php?p=152953&postcount=97) discuss the great economic dependence of Crimea on the lifelines coming down from the north.

Agriculture has already been hard hit by the disputes about water supply. Obviously a lack of electricity wouldn't exactly help the dire economic situation on the penisula. Not that Ukraine's economy is doing well or Russia's for that matter....

[OUTLAW 09]

Europe's right-wing and far-left populists are winning the social media battle
http://econ.st/1MurvJW
pic.twitter.com/lxNHW8DwpD

Power cut-offs in Crimea raise an old disarming question
http://www.odessatalk.com/2015/11/power-cut-offs-in-crimea-raise-an-old-disarming-question/ …
pic.twitter.com/kInDxRlvYw

Yenakiieve @olgarjpthju RU source reports: at 22:39 near water faciities a gas pipeline was blown up.
pic.twitter.com/1FGw5F8xk6

[OUTLAW 09]

Something new.
Crimean authorities: the power line could be blown up by Islamic radicals
http://liveuamap.com/en/2015/22-november-crimean-authorities-the-power-line-could-be-blown … via @RT_russian

We have now formally reached the outer limits of the Russian altered state of reality.......

they keep trying this Russia accuses #CrimeanTatar leaders of recruiting for Islamic State
http://khpg.org/en/index.php?id=1444434154 …

[OUTLAW 09]

Before the power cut, #Ukraine charged #Russia 5 Eurocents for each kW/hr.
My electricity provider charges me 25 Cents for the same amount.

[Ulenspiegel]

Before the power cut, #Ukraine charged #Russia 5 Eurocents for each kW/hr.
My electricity provider charges me 25 Cents for the same amount.

Please, the relevant wholesale price your utility pays is much much lower.

[OUTLAW 09]

When "Moscow was destroying power towers in #Donbas, nobody moralized about, none concerned if Ukrainians would die in hospitals"

But when Putin is on the receiving end all panic.......and since when annexation is legit? this is just adequate response to Russian occupation for over a year already.......this is Hybrid War, and this is supported by Crimean refugees and by majority of Ukrainians!

VIDEO #Ukraine activists (Tatars) block police etc from repairing power to #Crimea
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0HykyuHq50 … pic.twitter.com/J7KYMlhioL

Crimea [but Sevastopol]: forced outage schedule, power on 2hrs a day
https://archive.is/dnreM @crimea_gov

Bread lines on top of electricity turned off.........

If #Crimea ppl die b/c of the blackout, the pylon attackers bare responsibility.
http://ru.krymr.org/content/news/27380511.html …

[OUTLAW 09]

Please, the relevant wholesale price your utility pays is much much lower.

Check the current German utility rates that the individual energy firms are charged when they purchase it on the open energy markets---be sure to notice the difference from energy generated by the old means oil, gas, coal vs eco generated.

At the most 10 cents less than the 25 cents---the rest flows to government in the form of taxes and charges laid on the price to support the eco market ie a subsidy.

BTW---Russia is charging the Ukraine on electricity flowing from them to the Ukraine an average of 11.8 cents per kw--the cheap rate of 5 cent was negotiated before the annexation of Crimea---what is causing heartburn is that the power contract was rewritten on demands by Russia that in fact is a de facto recognition of the Crimea annexation---meaning the Crimea is referred to as the Crimea of the Russian Federation.

[OUTLAW 09]

Dzhemiliev: Free Political Prisoners & Restore Rights if You Want Power Back...
http://fb.me/2s1HxkBrx
khpg.org/en/index.php?id=1448248390 …

[OUTLAW 09]

Ukraine activists (Tatars) prevent repair on power lines to #Russia(n) occupied #Crimea
https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://gazeta.ua/ru/articles/np/_remontnikov-ne-podpuskayut-k-elektroliniyam-v-krym/661093&prev=search … pic.twitter.com/UNPLGAmnGt

Video: #Ukraine sends units to secure destroyed #Crimea power lines last night.Not equipped for crowd control, leave
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0HykyuHq50 …

Polling conducted with 6000 Crimea residents --89% were in favor of the power cuts....there is an increasing number of disillusioned former Ukrainians who are not happy at all with the so called Russian support for Crimea...bread shortages, high prices for poor quality food and the tourism has totally collapsed which has resulted in high unemployment rates.

Also the agriculture production has taken a major hit.

Next to the power cut---the blockade of the logistic trucks carrying supplies from the Ukraine has hurt in far more ways than initially thought--Russia boasted it could replace these 300 trucks a day within two weeks...well they have not and it tells.

[OUTLAW 09]

Dozen #Russian #tanks close to #border between Crimea, mainland Ukraine - Interior Ministry
http://bit.ly/1LvfYpR
pic.twitter.com/F4oS55Mb8G

Russia pulls tanks, Grads to Crimea-Kherson demarcation line in wake of blackout - MIA official
http://www.unian.info/society/119110...-official.html …

Russia moved tanks to #Ukraine border & threatens more invasion if electricity to #Crimea not restored. Laughable!
If these tanks move,

Does Putin seriously think that the Tartars will back down--truck traffic has been restricted, power cuts are easy to do and what about the key bridges into Crimea --they are not attackable........virtually every Tartar Ukrainian activist that has "disappeared since the takeover by Russia has "disappeared" and never found again---we are back to the NKVD days of Stalin inside Crimea...

Actually this development is interesting in that many Ukrainians on the whole feel the current government has done nothing to recover Crimea and this is an easy pressure point on the Russians......they will never risk a full war over power lines now that they are basically fighting a two front war.

What is equally interesting is that Russia thinks they can fight a two front war--even the US would have had a hard time years ago.

[OUTLAW 09]

Dzhemiliev: Free Political Prisoners & Restore Rights if You Want Power Back...
http://fb.me/2s1HxkBrx
khpg.org/en/index.php?id=1448248390 …

Dzhemilev: Crimea blockade activists ready to allow repair of two transmission lines
http://www.unian.info/politics/1191000-dzhemilev-crimea-blockade-activists-ready-to-allow-repair-of-two-transmission-lines.html
… pic.twitter.com/N0oMEUEHRB

[OUTLAW 09]

Dozen #Russian #tanks close to #border between Crimea, mainland Ukraine - Interior Ministry
http://bit.ly/1LvfYpR
pic.twitter.com/F4oS55Mb8G

Russia pulls tanks, Grads to Crimea-Kherson demarcation line in wake of blackout - MIA official
http://www.unian.info/society/119110...-official.html …

Russia moved tanks to #Ukraine border & threatens more invasion if electricity to #Crimea not restored. Laughable!
If these tanks move,

Does Putin seriously think that the Tartars will back down--truck traffic has been restricted, power cuts are easy to do and what about the key bridges into Crimea --they are not attackable........virtually every Tartar Ukrainian activist that has "disappeared since the takeover by Russia has "disappeared" and never found again---we are back to the NKVD days of Stalin inside Crimea...

Actually this development is interesting in that many Ukrainians on the whole feel the current government has done nothing to recover Crimea and this is an easy pressure point on the Russians......they will never risk a full war over power lines now that they are basically fighting a two front war.

What is equally interesting is that Russia thinks they can fight a two front war--even the US would have had a hard time years ago.

Russian Black Sea Fleet is saying it hasn't noticed an "energy blockade" in Crimea, which of course means it has. Retribution brewing?

[OUTLAW 09]

.@poroshenko considering official #Crimea blockade. Orders gov to halt motor/rail cargo traffic until final decision http://www.president.gov.ua/news/prezident-zvernuvsya-do-uryadu-z-propoziciyeyu-vivchiti-pita-36348 …

Ukrainian President has now realized the depth of the current Ukrainian civil society dislike of his doing nothing to regain the Crimea.....and actually it is an interesting question...can in fact the Ukraine blockade Crimea similar to what they have done in eastern Ukraine and legally be within their rights as the annexation of Crimea was an illegal international law move by Putin.

Poroshenko has also not yet filed damage claims with the IHRC/international court in Sweden for eastern Ukraine and the Crimea which can amount to literally billions of USDs and which based on the Kuwait decisions the Ukraine can takeover any Russian asset outside of Russia to repay the claims against them.

Not exactly sure why he has been dragging his feet on the claims.

[OUTLAW 09]

Check the current German utility rates that the individual energy firms are charged when they purchase it on the open energy markets---be sure to notice the difference from energy generated by the old means oil, gas, coal vs eco generated.

At the most 10 cents less than the 25 cents---the rest flows to government in the form of taxes and charges laid on the price to support the eco market ie a subsidy.

BTW---Russia is charging the Ukraine on electricity flowing from them to the Ukraine an average of 11.8 cents per kw--the cheap rate of 5 cent was negotiated before the annexation of Crimea---what is causing heartburn is that the power contract was rewritten on demands by Russia that in fact is a de facto recognition of the Crimea annexation---meaning the Crimea is referred to as the Crimea of the Russian Federation.


Materials on contract for the supply of electricity to "some kind of Crimean Federal District" sent to prosecutor's office -@Yatsenyuk_AP

Avakov: Ukraine may terminate the electricity supply to #Crimea in response to Russia's announced embargo as of Jan 1, 2016.

Kiev's not formally supported #Crimea blockade until now. @poroshenko, @Yatsenyuk_AP, @AvakovArsen all on board. Watch for Kremlin response.

Actually with the Russian announced blockade of all Ukrainian products on 1 Jan 2016 as a response to the EU Association Agreement going into effect---this might in fact been unintended consequences by the Russians on the part of that Russian embargo move.

Anyway its an excellent leverage that the Ukraine has now and it will be legal based on the stated actions by Russia--they might regret having openly stated their embargo intentions.

[OUTLAW 09]

Martynovsky: #RF forcefully changing demographics of UA. Many disappearances, deportations Tatars & even prisoners. pic.twitter.com/9C5wNtD74F

Martynovsky: +500 properties, businesses in #Crimea destroyed/misappropriated by RF. Russian Orthodox Church takes over places of worship.

[OUTLAW 09]

Materials on contract for the supply of electricity to "some kind of Crimean Federal District" sent to prosecutor's office -@Yatsenyuk_AP

Avakov: Ukraine may terminate the electricity supply to #Crimea in response to Russia's announced embargo as of Jan 1, 2016.

Kiev's not formally supported #Crimea blockade until now. @poroshenko, @Yatsenyuk_AP, @AvakovArsen all on board. Watch for Kremlin response.

Actually with the Russian announced blockade of all Ukrainian products on 1 Jan 2016 as a response to the EU Association Agreement going into effect---this might in fact been unintended consequences by the Russians on the part of that Russian embargo move.

Anyway its an excellent leverage that the Ukraine has now and it will be legal based on the stated actions by Russia--they might regret having openly stated their embargo intentions.

A bit to late since Russias wire from Krasnodar territory is finnished in december and this will have little effect.

[OUTLAW 09]

Appears German interests seem to not care for the Ukraine these days and they desperately want to get back to business as normal with Putin....

Let's see--cutting electricity to an illegally annexed Crimea by Russia is a crime, to massively violate Tartar human right in Crimea is a crime, killing 8K Ukrainians is a crime and the invasion of eastern Ukraine by Russia and her mercenaries I guess is also a crime....seems Germany had their priorities wrong these days...

German Foreign Min spox Martin Shaefer says cutting of Crimea's power supply is a "crime," wants an investigation. http://ria.ru/world/20151123/1326884402.html …

Begs the question---does he also want an investigation into the complete theft of Ukrainian factories by Russia, an investigation into the complete theft of the Ukrainian grain harvest and to the theft of hundreds of tons of coal by Russia---there seems to be a double standard at work here.....


BUT NOTICE he said nothing about this and the complete violation by Russia of implementing Minsk 2.......how strange is that??

Heavy Fighting Across Front Line Last Night With More Fighting South Of Donetsk Reported Today
http://www.interpretermag.com/ukraine-live-day-644-power-still-cut-in-occupied-crimea-as-ukrainian-official-claims-russian-tanks-moved-towards-frontier/#11178 …

AND he definitely forgot about the France German push inside Minsk 2 to grant full immunity for war crimes committed by Russia and her mercenaries inside eastern Ukraine....
Romanov: France Germany push nonimpunity for grave crimes commited in UA through Minsk. many thousands killed without repercussion already.

[OUTLAW 09]

Martynovsky: #RF forcefully changing demographics of UA. Many disappearances, deportations Tatars & even prisoners. pic.twitter.com/9C5wNtD74F

Martynovsky: +500 properties, businesses in #Crimea destroyed/misappropriated by RF. Russian Orthodox Church takes over places of worship.

Russian policy forcing migration: Russian citizens are encouraged to move to #Crimea.

[OUTLAW 09]

Crimean Tatars say that electric power lines going to Crimea from Ukraine could be blown up by Russian saboteurs
https://twitter.com/5channel/status/668851632482873344 …

Crimea blackout from space
pic.twitter.com/g27hqr3OKQ MT @belpartisan

[OUTLAW 09]

#News
Dzhemilev says, power pylons are getting repaired now BUT electricity flow will only start, if #Russia releases political prisoners.

[OUTLAW 09]

Russia won't release political prisoners held in illegally occupied Crimea. Work stops on electricity restoration. http://www.radiosvoboda.mobi/a/news/27389390.html …

[mirhond]

Yatz is probably to be thrown under the bus, along with his cabinet:

http://obozrevatel.com/politics/65241-u-poroshenko-podgotovili-proekt-ob-otstavke-yatsenyuka-i-ego-kabmina.htm

[mirhond]

10.12.2015


Valliant defender and patriot of Ukraine, Sturmabteilung volunteer Oleg Muzhchil':
https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/12311189_1531248650533116_8839669719495192157_n.jp g?oh=be9dbb82e568c6f87f28cd93afbf4485&oe=56E214A3

http://antikor.com.ua/articles/77051-spetsoperatsija_sbu_v_kieve_inoj_vzgljad

got killed by SBU in Kiev, during a raid against "Russian sabotage unit"
but before this unhappy turn of events he managed to dispatch another Ukrainian patriot, SBU officer, Andrei Kuz'menko:
http://3.hidemyass.com/ip-2/encoded/Oi8vcG9kcm9ibm9zdGkudWEvbWVkaWEvY2tlZGl0b3JfdXBsb2 Fkcy8yMDE1LzEyLzExL3Nkcmhnay5wbmc%3D

http://podrobnosti.ua/2078935-spetsoperatsija-v-kieve.html

so, the question is: between two of them, who was the greatest patriot?

[kaur]

mirhond, who is killing in Novorossiya?

http://kolobok1973.livejournal.com/3561173.html

The killers are:

A. members of black hundred units from Russia?
B. members of national-bolsheviks units from Russia?
C. local communists?
D. local criminals?
E. FSB?
F. GRU?
G. Taras Bulba?
H. remnants of Vlassov's army?
I. freemasons and jews?
J. mercenaries from US Missile Defence base from Donbas?
K. Ukrainian nationalist who lost their way to Crimea in February 2014?
L. UFO-s?
M. CIA?
N. Lech Kaczyński from the other side?

Feel free to conitnue.

[mirhond]

http://s3.uploads.ru/t/FftYk.jpg

http://s2.uploads.ru/t/hXuU0.jpg

Volyn' region, dead war hero has been transported to his grave.

Damn if I know why they kneel down, perhaps some local mourning tradition.

[mirhond]

mirhond, who is killing in Novorossiya?

http://kolobok1973.livejournal.com/3561173.html


Your rethoric is getting better, I see, more astute and humorous, meanwhile my question is not rethorical, I really wonder who feels more patriotic: SBU grunts or Right Sector fighters killing each other?

Meanwhile, I don't know who did away with all these petty warlords (if they were) and I don't care, ask Outlaw, he knows everything. Is fecit cui prodest.

[kaur]

mirhond, my question is not rhetorical. After watching/listening Russian news about Ukraine over a year, all answers may be true. You know about Russia more than Outlaw does, so I'm talking to you. I wonder if you can pick answer from my list or propose another version? You do care about kneeling people in the village, at the same time you don't care about people who did the footjob for Kremlin puppet masters in Donbas. Just wondering.

[mirhond]

mirhond, my question is not rhetorical. After watching/listening Russian news about Ukraine over a year, all answers may be true. You know about Russia more than Outlaw does, so I'm talking to you. I wonder if you can pick answer from my list or propose another version? You do care about kneeling people in the village, at the same time you don't care about people who did the footjob for Kremlin puppet masters in Donbas. Just wondering.

OK, if you talk seriously, my only reasonable guess about these warbosses as follows: they either were too independent and therefore dispatched by their Russian curators who need unity of command, or they were too careless and gave much pain in adversary ass, therefore SBU took care of them.

[OUTLAW 09]

Your rethoric is getting better, I see, more astute and humorous, meanwhile my question is not rethorical, I really wonder who feels more patriotic: SBU grunts or Right Sector fighters killing each other?

Meanwhile, I don't know who did away with all these petty warlords (if they were) and I don't care, ask Outlaw, he knows everything. Is fecit cui prodest.


Ask OUTLAW--OUTLAW replies---Comrade mirhond maybe you have a better "legalistic fallacy" argument than the Duma---based on your own comments Putin argues he supports the right of international laws...BUT then again maybe Putin does but his own controlled Duma does not.....

CARE to comment......??

Sounds about right for the RF propaganda; Duma rolls out new law undermining International law, trolls out in force. https://twitter.com/Dean_Bain/status/677090669387603968 …

AND comrade mirhond.....there goes the food for Crimea---BUT WAIT Putin promised the first time he could indeed supplement the 300 daily Ukrainian food trucks with 300 Russian food trucks....well think again--he was able to only get 103 per WEEK into Crimea NOT even per day......

Ukraine To Suspend Trade With Crimea
http://www.rferl.mobi/a/27431406.html

[OUTLAW 09]

MORE Russian stealing........BUT WAIT mirhond calls it a "legalistic fallacy"....

Russia preparing to drill for oil in #Ukraine's marine economic zone
http://uatoday.tv/politics/russia-preparing-to-drill-for-oil-in-ukraine-s-marine-economic-zone-555179.html …
pic.twitter.com/ZxZQvSTPbU

AND this is after they stole two Ukrainian drilling platforms.........worth 800M USD.....and paid not a single Rubel.

BUT WAIT........
Russians losing trust in all forms of mass media, retreating to the confines of close friends & relatives for news. https://meduza.io/en/news/2015/12/16/russians-trust-mass-media-less-and-less-for-news-turning-to-friends-and-relatives-instead …

[mirhond]

http://img0.joyreactor.cc/pics/post/%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0-%D0%AF%D1%86%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%8E%D0%BA-%D0%A3%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B0-%D0%B2%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%85%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BD%D0%B0%D 1%8F-%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%B0-2665694.jpeg

1. (Deputy Oleg Barna) My tastes are exclusive, you won't understand
2. (Prime mimister Yatzenuk) So, enlighten me
3.
4. Sick bastard

[OUTLAW 09]

http://img0.joyreactor.cc/pics/post/%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0-%D0%AF%D1%86%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%8E%D0%BA-%D0%A3%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B0-%D0%B2%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%85%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BD%D0%B0%D 1%8F-%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%B0-2665694.jpeg

1. (Deputy Oleg Barna) My tastes are exclusive, you won't understand
2. (Prime mimister Yatzenuk) So, enlighten me
3.
4. Sick bastard

MORE Russian stealing........BUT WAIT mirhond calls it a "legalistic fallacy"....

Russia preparing to drill for oil in #Ukraine's marine economic zone
http://uatoday.tv/politics/russia-pr...ne-555179.html …
pic.twitter.com/ZxZQvSTPbU

AND this is after they stole two Ukrainian drilling platforms.........worth 800M USD.....and paid not a single Rubel.

BUT WAIT........
Russians losing trust in all forms of mass media, retreating to the confines of close friends & relatives for news. https://meduza.io/en/news/2015/12/16...atives-instead …

[Firn]

Ukraine's economy is in deep distres after years of terrible corrupt leadership and the Russian invasions. Now Ukraine Defaults on $3 Billion Bond to Russia (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-12-18/ukraine-defaults-on-3-billion-russia-bond-as-court-battle-looms).

One of the more interesting facets of the story:


The government in Kiev is barred from paying Russia back in full under the conditions of the agreement with private creditors. That pact, in turn, is a key condition of a $17.5 billion IMF aid package secured this year to keep the country’s economy afloat. Under that deal, bondholders including Franklin Templeton accepted a 20* percent reduction to their principal holdings, something Russia refused to consider.

That chart looks like something a predatory lender would offer to a subprime candidate... :wry:

http://assets.bwbx.io/images/iII.Qbh1cBEo/v2/-1x-1.png

So what will Russia do? Sue? Invade?

*I would have hoped for it's economy's sake, just like in an earlier Greek case for a far higher reduction...

[OUTLAW 09]

Union of Industrialists & Entrepreneurs: situation w/ counterfeit food products on Russian market is catastrophic. https://twitter.com/rosbaltru/status/677879753181937664 …

4M tons of counterfeit dairy products we feed our children, & more than half of canned meat is counterfeit" http://www.rosbalt.ru/main/2015/12/18/1473202.html …

[mirhond]

The list of 83 mostly Russian cinema actors, dancers, musicians and other celebrities who present threat to Ukraine national security, from Ukrainian ministry of culture.

1. Айгумов Айгум Ельдарович

2. Батуріна Олена Миколаївна
3. Безруков Сергій Віталійович
4. Бєлоцерковська Катерина Іванівна
5. Бистрицька Еліна Авраамівна
6. Бльоданс Евеліна Вісвальдівна
7. Богачова Ірина Петрівна
8. Бондарчук Наталія Сергіївна
9. Бондарчук Федір Сергійович
10. Бородай Олександр Юрійович
11. Бортко Володимир Володимирович
12. Боярський Михайло Сергійович
13. Бурляєв Микола Петрович
14. Варлей Наталія Володимирівна
15. Газманов Олег Михайлович
16. Гальцев Юрій Миколайович
17. Гафт Валентин Йосипович
18. Гергіїв Валерій Абисалович
19. Гостюхін Володимир Васильович
20. Грачевський Борис Юрійович
21. Дерст Фред
22. Депардьє Жерар
23. Зайцев Андрій Миколайович
24. Зайцева Надія Андріївна
25. Інін Аркадій Якович
26. Кара Юрій Вікторович
27. Карпов Сава Валерійович
28. Клебанов Ігор Семенович
29. Клюєв Борис Володимирович
30. Кобзон Йосиф Давидович
31. Коваленко Андрій Олексійович
32. Кокшаров Дмитро Михайлович
33. Кочетков Олексій Володимирович
34. Кучеренко Володимир Олександрович
35. Лаврентьєв Клім Анатолійович
36. Лановий Василь Семенович
37. Лебединський Віктор Вікторович
38. Лепсверідзе Григорій Вікторович
39. Лещенко Лев Валер’янович
40. Ліванов Аристарх Євгенійович
41. Лужина Лариса Анатоліївна
42. Лунгін Павло Семенович
43. Марчуков Андрій Владиславович
44. Маховиков Сергій Анатолійович
45. Махров Олексій Михайлович
46. Мельнікова Анастасія Рюріковна
47. Михайлов Олександр Якович
48. Мілованов Леонід Петрович
49. Міхал Павінські
50. Моріхіро Івата
51. Мунібаєв Руслан Рушанович
52. Назаров Юрій Володимирович
53. Нагібін Денис Олегович
54. Нестеренко Василь Ігоревич
55. Назмутдинов Булат Венерович
56. Охлобистін Іван Іванович
57. Олійник Олексій Олексійович
58. П’єха Станіслав Пятрасович
59. Палей Андрій Єдуардович
60. Паталах Артур Михайлович
61. Пєнкін Сергій Михайлович
62. Перфілова Валерія Юріївна
63. Петров Юрій Олексійович
64. Поляков Юрій Михайлович
65. Порєченков Михайло Євгенович
66. Пригожин Йосиф Ігорович
67. Расторгуєв Микола В’ячеславович
68. Розенбаум Олександр Якович
69. Рой Джонс (молодший)
70. Самойлов Вадим Рудольфович
71. Смирнов Олександр Олександрович
72. Стариков Микола Вікторович
73. Стеблов Євген Юрійович
74. Табаков Олег Павлович
75. Тализіна Валентина Іларіонівна
76. Тамбіянц Юліан Григорович
77. Теличкіна Валентина Іванівна
78. Федоров Євген Олексійович
79. Хазін Михайло Леонідович
80. Харатьян Дмитро Вадимович
81. Холмогоров Єгор Станіславович
82. Чичеріна Юлія Дмитрівна
83. Шахназаров Карен Георгійович

http://mincult.kmu.gov.ua/control/uk/publish/article?art_id=244966871&cat_id=244966805

[davidbfpo]

From the BBC:
Police in Ukraine believe an explosion caused damage to an electricity pylon, bringing fresh disruption to power supplies in Crimea....Crimea's two million people were severely affected when four pylons on the Kakhovsky-Titan power line were intentionally damaged. It took more than a fortnight for supplies to be restored....A contract between Ukrenergo and Crimea was set to come to an end on Thursday and there was no indication that it was being renewed in time for the new year....Moscow officials says two power lines through the Kerch Strait began providing 400 megawatts of electricity to Ukraine this month and further supplies will begin in May 2016.
Link:http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35204304

[davidbfpo]

Thankyou to Outlaw 09 and others who post here, like Firn, as it is unlikely another will post this thread I shall close now before I go out to party. Minus fireworks!:)

To the others who post here thank you, anyone who follows this thread will have learnt a lot - even if there is rarely disagreement.