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Jedburgh
07-14-2006, 07:15 PM
Moderator's Note

On the 8th December 2011 this thread's title was changed from 'Congo-Rwandan War: the Ever Ready Rabbit', to Gazing in the Congo (DRC): the dark heart of Africa, which recognises that matters Congo (DRC) are the focus. Several smaller threads were merged into it too.


BBC, 14 Jul 06: DR Congo Backs "Guns for Bikes" (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/5180144.stm)

A scheme under which gunmen in the Democratic Republic of Congo are given bicycles in exchange for their weapons is being extended due to its success.

Ngoy Mulunda, a pastor in the south-eastern Katanga region, says he has been given some 6,500 weapons in the past year, which he has destroyed...

ICG Reports on DR Congo (http://www.crisisgroup.org/home/index.cfm?id=1174&l=1)

carl
07-15-2006, 12:49 PM
One of the things they do here in the DRC, is turn in the old, rusty, no longer working weapon for whatever is being offered, be it a bicycle or a bounty. The usable weapons normally get turned in only under duress, as was the case recently with Gedeon' Mai Mai.

The pastor perhaps, is overselling his results.

Tom Odom
07-17-2006, 12:56 PM
There is also a tradition that turned in weapons get return to the market; that was the case for the weapons taken from the former Rwandan army. I would agree with Carl that the good reverend is marketing,

Best
Tom

Strickland
07-18-2006, 11:18 AM
One of the things they do here in the DRC, is turn in the old, rusty, no longer working weapon for whatever is being offered, be it a bicycle or a bounty. The usable weapons normally get turned in only under duress, as was the case recently with Gedeon' Mai Mai.

The pastor perhaps, is overselling his results.

While I hope, and yes I know that hope is never a good COA, that this weapons turn-in is not like similar ones in the US, where old and unusable weapons are returned, I cannot help but be encouraged by the fact that reports note "thousands" of weapons being turned over. Admittedly, in a nation where there are millions of weapons, thousands is a drop in the bucket, but it is a start. It also demonstrates that there is some "pseudo" higher order needs that are unrealized or could be exploited there.

Tom Odom
02-06-2007, 01:34 PM
The head of the U.N. mission in Congo said on Saturday he was concerned about growing human rights abuses by the security forces, just days after the worst political violence since landmark elections last year. At least 87 people were killed in the opposition-controlled western province of Bas-Congo according to Interior Minister General Denis Kalume.

But, human rights violations remain widespread, particularly in the country's militia-ridden east. Car hijacks and civilians killings are reported in the east of the province under insurgent control. One local health worker and another villager were killed this weekend by alleged FDLR hutu fighters and the health centre was looted. This violence outbreak is caused by the vacuum left after the 9th brigade was redeployed to the south from Katale to Kilimanyoka on the north axis.

The town of Ikela and its neighbourhood have been cleaned by police reinforced by armed forces. The insurgency started by a certain Nkoy Azoki alias Libanais has been defeated and the insurgents have fled to Opala for safety after two weeks of fight.

Troops have gathered in triangle comprised between Ngungu, Katoyi and Kibabi in Masisi territory (some 40 km West of Goma) and are supposed to plan a resistance to what they call a betrayal by President . They are mainly made of Mai Mai and Hutu warriors led by Major Bigembe and Colonel Mugabo. A new insurgency is imminent, a new way to win posts and money.



Carl, our alumni has been sending these to Stan and me. The Mai Mai go back to the early 60s; they were as I recall the first in the "modern" Congo to come up with the bullets into water business. Mai in Arabic means water and I believe that is true in Swahili as well' And of course the "Hutu warriors" are my old "friends". War in its various forms has been a constant for the Congo since 1994.

Best

Tom

Tom Odom
02-06-2007, 04:30 PM
More from Carl


Democratic Republic of Congo named a new government on Monday evening , the announcement was made on state television (RTNC) in Kinshasa. The new government comprises one prime minister, 39 ministers and 20 deputy ministers. The new government kept some ministers, such as Denis Kalume who retained the interior portfolio as minister of state, and brought in figures from parties which backed Kabila through the elections. Is the cabinet strong enough to ease social tensions in the capital town or deal with tribal warriors and insurgents in the east?

Fighting continues in eastern areas, where ethnic militia still operate despite the presence of the MONUC, the world's biggest international peacekeeping force. A MONUC/FARDC joint mission to assess security in Minembwe highlands did not reach destination because of bad weather, but Gen Amisi (FARDC chief-of-staff says all the so-called insurgents will forcibly be taken to Luberizi where 1800 troops are already waiting. Colonel Alexandre (a mai mai fighter) is also gathering his troops for integration in Katshungu-Lulingu; security will improve in both Shabunda and Lulingu (south Kivu).

Drugs, cannabis and alcohol are the main cause of unrest in Ksai Occidental. Lots of civilians and soldiers have been arrested in Kananga and the ops are to be extended to the whole province in order to dismantle the supply chains and eventually destroy cannabis plantations. Cannabis yields more cash than maize, so farmers prefer it regardless the devastating effect on the youth. The same phenomenon is observed in Bukavu. In Goma, locally distilled whisky is sold everywhere and it has a negative effect on motorcyclists and cause traffic accidents at any time.

For maps of the area (http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/zaire.html)

Tom

carl
02-06-2007, 05:15 PM
"A new insurgency is imminent, a new way to win posts and money."

Whenever the FARDC (the regular Congolese Army) can't handle a revolt or armed flareup, which is almost never, the gov. is in the habit of buying the leaders of the revolt off with a high rank or command of a military district.
So, if you are an ambitious leader with some men to command and you want to better yourself; you command your men to go forth and make trouble. They generally make trouble by murdering innocent people in the area.

Then, the gov. responds by giving the ambitious leader a high rank and a command in the army that was too weak to beat him.

Stan
02-06-2007, 06:11 PM
Drugs, cannabis and alcohol are the main cause of unrest in Ksai Occidental. Lots of civilians and soldiers have been arrested in Kananga and the ops are to be extended to the whole province in order to dismantle the supply chains and eventually destroy cannabis plantations. Cannabis yields more cash than maize, so farmers prefer it regardless the devastating effect on the youth. The same phenomenon is observed in Bukavu. In Goma, locally distilled whisky is sold everywhere and it has a negative effect on motorcyclists and cause traffic accidents at any time.

Thanks for the post Carl !
Even as early as 85 cannabis was the preferred crop. It however then had little effect on the locals, it was just business and the Peace Corps and other Groupies would buy whatever was available.

Sad, it appears to have replaced a Simba lager. Worse yet, the Zäirois back then rarely (intentionally) did something to harm younger children. As many as four generations in one household, but the kids were safe (relatively speaking).

On a final note, I don't recall any of the locals driving without causing traffic accidents, and can only imagine doing said on distilled whisky.

Tom Odom
02-07-2007, 05:14 PM
The new 60 member government, of which 9 are women has urgent tasks. One of its first tasks will be to tackle unrest causes by making security priority number one. Army, police and justice should be given relevant means for deep reformation otherwise all the other actions will be groundless. The government has new faces in it, but no one from rebel groups namely RCD and MLC.

Disarmament of foreign negative forces is a Monuc mandate. The Lords Resistance Army fighters are based in northern DRC (Congo) with a certain Vincent Otti who has decided to resume hostilities from southern Sudan where Joseph Kony (Lords Resistance Army warlord) is still hiding.

The reason for this change is that negotiations are stuck and Kenya has rejected a proposal to host them. Uganda might find it a good reason to cross the boarder into DRC (Congo) and hunt them down. Another group is an ADF/NALU coalition hiding at the foot of Rwenzori mount. The worst of negative armed group is that of Hutu (Rwandan) fighters scattered in the east from South Kivu to North Kivu, their sanctuary stretches at the edge of the Congo jungle. They often mix with Mai Mai tribal warriors ; the Alpha and Bravo mixed brigades are mandated to fight them.

Heavy shelling were reported yesterday morning in the area of Nyamilima-Ishasha to stop an attack of FDLR (Hutu hardliners) and Mai Mai coalition, the 8th military region did not confirm the fights. There is fear of reprisals among the locals who're alleged to cooperate with those negative forces.

Colonel Delemba of Baleine brigade was killed yesterday night when his residence was attacked by tribal warriors faithful to his rival, Colonel Lafontaine. Baleine brigade troops gathered in Bingi town (south west of Butembo) waiting for integration. Civilians have fled to neighbouring towns.

"Army, police and justice should be given relevant means for deep reformation" means they need to be paid. Who gets paid and who does not is the real issue.

The LRA has been a growing threat in the past 2 decades or so; it is very much an armed cult that the Ugandan government and its supporters finally started to take on while my the guy who replaced me in Rwanda, Rick Orth, later served as DATT.



Best

Tom

Tom Odom
02-16-2007, 06:23 PM
Latest from Carl in K-town


Heavy shootings were heard in Nyabushongo (west of Goma town) when police and army tried jointly to disperse rioters following stabbing of a young man by a neighbour because that one used his private latrine without permission. The stabbed man is admitted in DOCS (Doctors on Call for Service) for emergency care. Revengeful angry mobs destroyed who houses before torching the rest of the buildings.
An appeals court in Bas-Congo has called on the DRC's Independent Electoral Commission (IEC) to organize a second round of polls for the positions of governor and vice governor of the province. The first round of polls to the positions of governor and vice governor for the two Kasai have been rescheduled for Thursday, February 15.

The Mission has deployed a mobile operations unit to South Kivu, which has been beset by unrest even since the formal end of the country's civil war in 1999, to help maintain public order. Military Operations Commander in Ituri district announced that FNI militiamen have fled deeper in Katanga forest instead of surrendering to the army for quick integration.

A miner found a 143-carat diamond in a river in Congo and sold it for $1.4 million, an official said Saturday. Amos Maseko discovered the stone in a river near Banalia, 129 km north of Kisangani, where usually only diamonds of between one and three carats are to be found, the president of the Congolese Federation of Gold and Diamonds, John Tokole told UN radio Okapi. The diamond was cheaply sold to a Lebanese subject because its real value is supposed to $4 million by officials contradicting Kisangani governor who was involved in the deal. Rudimentary mining attracts many minors to resorb unemployment. Those mining sites attract also children, drug consumers and mafia dealers; the main cause of unrest in such places.

A Border Security Force contingent will on Tuesday leave on a peacekeeping mission to Congo. The contingent, consisting of seven officers and fourteen subordinating officers, will be stationed in Lubumbashi and will assist in restoration of law and order for creating a conducive atmosphere for holding of elections.

The choice of Lubumbashi is probably related to illegal mining, mineral smuggle including cobalt and uranium.

Tom Odom
02-16-2007, 06:25 PM
More from Carl in K-Town


There is trouble related to dual nationality for some Congolese officials at high level.
The crisis started when a report about two governor candidates being British and
Belgian in addition to their birth Congolese nationality at the same time, so the polls
were rescheduled in the two Kasais. According to the law, being Congolese is exclusive.
If one acquires new nationality, he loses the Congolese one. The National Assembly decided
in a plenary session yesterday that the matter be discussed a bit later to give who illegally hold
the nationality illegally to decide and sort out the situation in time. The decision was wise because
the motion was tabled by opposition seemingly to cause similar trouble to those who accused the
two candidates to governorship. The number of Congolese officials holding their birth nationality illegally
has incredibly increased these years of unrest. Let's wait and see how many will have complied with the
law when investigations start.

Tom Odom
02-16-2007, 06:27 PM
From Carl in K-Town


The South African government cautioned Wednesday that an early withdrawal of peacekeepers from the Democratic Republic of Congo could reverse gains made since the end of a five-year war in 2003. South Africa has around 2,000 troops serving in MONUC, which mainly consists of soldiers from African armies.

The United Nations appealed on Tuesday for fresh funds to help nearly 100,000 Congolese refugees go home this year, but said continuing violence prevented returns to the eastern part of the DRC. Some $47 million of its $62 million appeal is earmarked for the voluntary repatriation programme, with the remaining $15 million aimed at providing aid to 1.1 million people uprooted within Democratic Republic of Congo.

A train derailed anda t leat twenty passengers died in the town of Mokambo (south east of Lubumbashi) in Katanga province. Congolese National Railway officials told AFP that all those killed were stowaways. When DRC got independence, the railway network was one the most important in Africa, now travelling by train is so hazardous that losses (of lives and goods) are often registered. Tons of food stored by WFP in Lubumbashi cannot be carried to the starving population when airlifts are too costly to the organosation.

Investigations are being carried on by different commissions to find out the cause of last riots in several towns in Bas Congo province. On a different site, at least 250 houses were torched and one person killed in land dispute in Kasai Oriental province (60 km south of Mbujimayi).

Insurgents faithful to renegade general Nkunda are alleged to be recruiting new fighters in Ngungu (Masisi territory). Monuc observed the same recruitment in Tongo where demobilised troops are being conscripted intothe army by a certain Saddam, mixed battalion commander in Tongo. Furthermore, some residents at Karibu hotel preferred to move because Gen Nkunda was alleged to be among the customers this weekend.

Tom Odom
02-16-2007, 06:29 PM
From Carl in K-Town


Highlighting that the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC) continues to pose "a threat to international peace and security in the region," the Security Council yesterday extended the UN mission in the impoverished DRC for another two months. UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon called on Congolese authorities to focus on security sector reform and tighten up legislation covering business practices relating to diamond and other minerals to avoid funding armed groups.

The Democratic Republic of Congo faces disaster if United Nations peacekeepers are withdrawn too soon, international aid agency Oxfam warned on Friday. "Without a substantial and effective MONUC presence, the security situation -- which is currently fairly stable -- could soon unravel," Juliette Prodhan, head of Oxfam in the DRC, told Xinhua news agency in Nairobi

When a significant step is made toward democracy by electing 10/11 governors all over the DRC, one minister of the current cabinet resigned before reporting himself. His resignation letter was presented by his party president. Later on three individuals showed up under the same name of Kasongo Ilunga based in Kinshasa, Kalemie and Lubumbashi respectively.

In an effort to pacify the town of Goma, the army has collected more than five hundred weapons in less than a month. The collection started mid January when army officials noticed that some officers preferred to hide in Goma with bodyguards involved in various blunders. All the officers without posts have been ordered to go to Kamina for proper integration.

Security is a major concern in the Grand Nord as well where a Belgian building contractor and farmer (Claude Duvigneaud or Duvignon) was killed at his residence yesterday night together with his guards. Nothing was stolen except his computer laptop.

Stan
02-16-2007, 10:51 PM
Carl and Tom,


All the officers without posts have been ordered to go to Kamina for proper integration.

An odd place for a gathering or integration, considering what the agency used Kamina for. Swimming pools, et al.

I'd be interested to know. We flew there many times on board a baby blue 727, complete with a maden on the tail :cool:

Starting to sound very Zairois. Integration would then mean...execution or simply purgatory ?

Regards, Stan

Tom Odom
02-20-2007, 05:26 PM
From Carl in Kinshasa


Although the 8th military region in North Kivu has not planed operations yet, Col Makenga of Bravo Brigade would like to attack FDLR positions in the park and has asked populations at the south boundary to move elsewhere. Alpha Brigade has also agreed with Mai Mai fighters to jointly attack FDLR positions from Rwindi station in the centre of the park. Given the current location of the FDLR, we fear that our flights to the North will be flying over the battlefield. An alternative route West of the Nyiragongo mount or higher level can be a solution. We shall update the situation tomorrow in case operations are launched earlier.

Frequent house break-ins were reported last week, most targets being residences of NGO national staff. Some of the recent victims are a trainer of CIF house door was broken using a heavy stone and another was a WFP logistics assistant the assaulters found at his gate seeing off a late visitor.

Also from Carl in the same email:


If the FARDC actually does attack the FDLR, from what i've been told in the past, they will get beat up. I don't remember anybody directly attacking the FDLR since i've been here. I wonder what is prompting the move.

The FDLR has been hanging around theDRC for over a decade. Do you think this prolonged stay will eventually cause them to wither on the vine?

Out of here on March 13th. looking forward to it.

I bet you are, Carl! If the FARDC follows the martial traditions of the Force Publique, the ANC, and then the FAZ, I am sure the "attack" will be much show and no go. As long as the FDLR can maintain bases in this area and support among certain European circles, they will be there. As I read what little comes out of the area, they are a non-threat to Rwanda at this stage. That said, they are a menace to any sort of equilibriium in the area.

Stan who knows on the integration--what amazes me are the same old players still playing the same old music and you know someone is getting rich by running the music hall.

best

Tom

Tom Odom
02-20-2007, 05:28 PM
From Carl soon to be leaving Kinshasa


Growing fears of a showdown between government troops and Rwandan Hutu rebels in eastern Democratic Republic of Congo have halted the return of tens of thousands of displaced persons to their homes in western Rutshuru and northern Masisi territories, OCHA information officer Andrew Zadel yesterday. Heavy shelling was reported in Kwenda river valley this morning, so some civilians have stared fleeing to Kiwanja where more others have been camping for more than a year now. Other IDPs are observed around lake Edward where Bravo mixed brigade attacked Mai Mai positions in Nyakakoma and Nyamitwitwi. As stated in my previous report, the Rutshuru valley is space to avoid when flying to the north.

The recruitment of child soldiers has continued in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), despite the government's efforts to integrate former militia into the army, a local human rights official has said. This finding has been confirmed by the United Nations Mission in the Congo, known as MONUC, the UN Children's Fund (UNICEF) and some international NGOs concerned with child welfare. "The integrated brigades contain 257 children, namely 85 with Alpha Brigade, 95 with the Bravo Brigade and 77 with the Charlie Brigade. These figures are based on estimates by inspectors at the time the records were taken and not from official documents. Moreover, the figure for the Bravo Brigade included 35 children and an estimate of 60 for a battalion that they could not check."

The Bunia military court sentenced 15 soldiers to life imprisonment and a fine of $315, 000 each ; they were alleged to have massacred 30 civilians in Bavi (Ituri district) when a mass grave was discovered by UN Human Rights department. Four others were sentenced to life emprisonment for war crimes. In fact they were found guilty of murdering two UN peacekeepers in Mongwalu area in 2003.

Stan
02-20-2007, 08:33 PM
Hey Tom !

Stan who knows on the integration--what amazes me are the same old players still playing the same old music and you know someone is getting rich by running the music hall.

Strange indeed, it doesn't appear to have changed much from a decade ago. How in God's name do they hang on ? They had little to eat when we were there and we propped the economy with our year together :cool:

I often wondered just how long such a feeble USG approach could last. How long would we pour money into this hole ? Were the Babbits and Gores convinced they could make a difference if POTUS hadn't won ?


The recruitment of child soldiers has continued in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC)

Nigeria yes, but this is not typical Zairois. The youth were content with fulfilling dad's dream of becoming a quasi construction company manager (especially stealthy thief) and father of at least 3 before age 12, but not learning how to operate a M3 grease gun.


Heavy shelling was reported in Kwenda river valley this morning

Tom, are we going back as civilians :eek:
I want extra, extra pay !

Regards, Stan

carl
02-21-2007, 06:21 PM
Stan and Tom:

I lost this thread and only now just found it again.

I've flown into Kamina Base twice in the last two years. The swimming pools are gone as is all the furniture and almost all of the people. The few people who are there just wander about the place with burdens on their heads like any other village. Most of the glass is still in the windows. (I've noticed the Congolese don't intentionally trash things like they do in poor neighborhoods in the US.)

The tower operator works with a handheld VHF comm and clears you to takeoff and land, if he has been able to charge his battery. The runways and the big hangers and what appear to be all the larger buildings are still there; all empty.

You two guys know this happens but for those who don't, I've heard of soldiers starving to death in various re-integration centers or in transit. One group got posted at Goma airport for weeks and weeks with 0, zero provisions. One general took the trains to be used for moving provisions to his troops and used them to start a railroad business to his hometown. Some of his guys starved.

Speaking of the LRA; one of our employees fought in the Ugandan wars for 3 years and operated against the LRA. He says they are VERY proficient in small unit infantry work.

Which reminds me; last year the UN brought in a Gueatemalan (sic) special forces unit to hunt down the LRA. They fought them once and got thumped. The UN has been very coy about providing details of that fight. Do you guys know anything about it? The most I could get from a UN guy was that "there are special forces, and then there are special forces."

Stan
02-21-2007, 07:16 PM
Hi Carl !

(I've noticed the Congolese don't intentionally trash things like they do in poor neighborhoods in the US.)
I would agree and assume they will later steal the glass and want it to remain intact :D
You're right, they don't simply destroy things. I honestly think they are looking at the future of selling it.


They fought them once and got thumped. The UN has been very coy about providing details of that fight. Do you guys know anything about it? The most I could get from a UN guy was that "there are special forces, and then there are special forces."

Going into the jungle means one is prepared. The Zairois were accustomed to life in the bush, and even the Belg wouldn't go in. Somebody else's backyard and jungle rules, but I doubt special forces.


You two guys know this happens but for those who don't, I've heard of soldiers starving to death in various re-integration centers or in transit. One group got posted at Goma airport for weeks and weeks with 0, zero provisions.

Kamina was a strange re-integration center, but appears to be a way of getting those out of the picture, and yes with no provisions. We saw what happened when the GOZ tried to send her 31st para out of Goma for "relocation". The 31st paras took matters into their own hands and hijacked the 727 back home.

Take care Carl !
Stan

Tom Odom
04-12-2007, 08:09 PM
Carl has been sending these and I have not posted them all.

Salient issues in the past few weeks included:

The DRC insituted a crackdown against private militias under the control of a favorite of both Stan and me, Mssr. Bemba. Bemba once started a minor shooting war over cellular phones while Stan and I watched. This crack down precipitated a fracas as described below. The author is not a native English speaker and the prose is a bit rough. Nevertheless is does convey life in the Congo. Gombe is the central part of Kinshasa where Stan and I lived and worked. Ndolo is the airport in the center of Kinshasa where the small carriers generally base from.


Hi Carl,
Very happy to hear about you. Shootings started on thursday 22 at around 10:30, we thought as usual the situation could be controlled after few hours. so we did not move from the office, we continued working. Good enough we had asked the pilots living at Lilas to move before 9:00, and it was done. hootings continued the whole day long and as you can see our area, we were surrounded by the soldiers from the camp, and those from Haut commandement street ( the street of wimbi dira) and it was difficult to go out. so we remained in the office till late and we finally decided to leave despite shootings. God helped, we reached our homes safely. Bemba's guys resisted the whole thursday and as the army used heavy machine guns the whole night, they were weakened and left Gombe for the city. Many people were supporting them on their way, they could only drink beer wherever they found it, and their target was the national police and the regular army oldiers and even the private security guards committed to the president Kabila. Down the city, the regular police could not face them, they all run away leaving behind their uniforms, boots, and even guns. They left the
communes and the containers empty. so Bemba's guys went up to Ndolo airport which was very open because all the soldiers living there run away. They went to our hungar as they thought some soldiers might have hidden their in. But there was only two of our guards, They started shooting inside the hangar, at least 15 bullets, they destroy the wall and one door. God is good, our guards were not hurt, not even the planes. So they asked them to open the gate and they did. they asked if Kabila's soldiers were inside and they also asked about their tribes; good for them because the two were from equateur (Bemba's province) and they said to them, we can not kill you bcs
you are our brothers and they left. I suppose that if they were from the East of the country, it could be another story.
We think that it is not the end because those guys left and we don't know exactly were they are for the moment. It seems some have crossed the river to Brazzaville, some are still in Kinshasa. After all something may happen. but the regular army is determined to finish with them.


OCHA/DRC
Humanitarian SitRep : Kinshasa
22-27 March 2007
1. Context
On 22 March, 2007, fighting erupted between Government forces and the DPP (armed
elements loyal to former VP Bemba) in the Gombe area of Kinshasa. Tensions had been on
the rise in recent weeks as a result of Bemba’s defiance of a Government order for the DPP
to disarm and present for “brassage”.
Clashes were intense in the city centre (Gombe), with heavy weaponry being used on both
sides including heavy shelling and continuous gunfire. The fighting gradually progressed
towards other neighbourhoods including Barumbu, Kinshasa, Lingwala, Limete and Lakamu.
By 24th March, Government forces had regained control of the city, and DPP elements were
surrendering to MONUC at various locations around the city. However, the axis Ndolo –
Beach area remains unstable.
2. Current Situation
As of 27 March, evaluation and assistance activities of various humanitarian organisations
continue throughout the city. To date, the available facts and figures are as follows:
- Official casualty figures have yet to be released by the Government. Humanitarian
actors providing assistance in the different medical facilities report the following
estimates: 36 deaths registered in 4 hospitals in the city; 172 others registered at the
municipal morgue; 12 other bodies were found yesterday at Kinsuka. A further 147
individuals are registered at these same hospitals with combat-related injuries.
- 200 DPP elements have surrendered to MONUC. By agreement with the
Government, MONUC is providing safe haven to 100 of these elements and 260
women and children family members.
- Although damages are still being assessed, no major destruction affected health
centres, water facilities, power plants, educational structures or other essential public
service infrastructure.
3. Protection concerns
Humanitarian organizations are monitoring a number of protection-related issues and
situations including:
- families and dependents of captured/surrendered DPPs,
- treatment by authorities of arrested street-children,
- suspected risk of sexual violence and human rights abuses, and
- the alleged exactions and arbitrary executions taking place in the city and in
retaliation of DPP supporters
4. Humanitarian Evaluations and Assistance
Given the nature of the armed confrontations, the main concern in terms of emergency
needs were those regarding the capacity of health facilities and appropriate medical
treatment for the wounded. The following is a list of activities that have taken place to date,
under the general coordination of the Ministry of Health:
- Caritas:
o Evaluation of all hospitals in Gombe as well as the Morgue
o Distribution of 300 litres of formol, antibiotics, disinfectants,
o Distribution of food rations for 1000 individuals,
o Caritas is planning, in collaboration with the Ministry of Humanitarian Affairs,
to make a further distribution of medical kits, surgical equipment and further
food rations.
o Finally, they expect to deliver 250 coffins and 2 sheets per injured
- WHO:
o Distribution of 3 tonnes of essential drugs and surgical materials
o Distribution of 400 rolls of plaster and 100 sheets
- ICRC and MSF:
o Both organizations divided themselves the hospitals in the city in order to
evaluate casualties and provide assistance
o Assistance included surgical support, provision of surgical equipment,
medicines, antibiotic, plastic bags, etc
- UNICEF: UNICEF has been evaluating the situation of street-children and that of the
minor dependents of DPP elements currently sheltered by MONUC.
5. Issues to Watch
- DPP arms have reportedly fallen into the hands of street children (shegué), raising
concerns about the presence of uncontrolled arms in the city;
- There are fears of reprisals by governmental forces against alleged DPP supporters
and sympathisers.
- There is a high potential for exacerbation of ethnic tensions (lingalophones vs.
swahiliphones)

Since the end of this fighting Bemba was held up in the South African Embassy. He was escorted from the embassy and is now in exile in Portugal.
But the good news is that Belgian Foreign Minister has called for a reform of the DRC's armed forces so that further incidents will be avoided.


And if you believe that last part, I have water front property in Gombe I want to sell you. :cool:

Tom

carl
04-14-2007, 03:46 PM
Speaking of water front property in Gombe...

Last year our company was looking for an additional residence to rent. One of the properties we looked at was on the river in Gombe. I am told it was a beautiful place with a large house and a pretty garden. It was also one of the less expensive places available because it was located right next door to the house of one of the vice-presidents.

We ddn't take it.

Stan
04-14-2007, 09:10 PM
There was a time when the 80-plus mm mortars reduced property values along the water front facing Brazzaville, Congo. The automatic fire was also very impressive :D So much, that the shrink that came to help us (crossing in our Boston Whaler) never made it to Kin that day.

I remember the Ambassador's residence being sort of a fire control point with all the lights (generators running into the night, et al).

Probably better you folks didn't rent that area in Gombe :cool:

Tom Odom
04-15-2007, 01:11 PM
Now Stan,

You have to admit the reflection of tracer rounds across the water did lend a certain ambience to the Gombe water front. :D

Tom

Tom Odom
05-29-2007, 12:47 PM
5 years old and a general already! Alexander Haig has got nothing on this kid.

Seriously, I could have put this under the Congo SitReps from Carl but this one deserves its own thread. Child soldiers are a fact of life--and death--in Africa these days.


"They are fast. They are brave. They are everything a commander would want. So they are definitely still an asset to the mixed brigades". Who are they?

Child soldiers named by the CAAG acronym to mean Child Associated to Armed Groups. General Baraka, five years old, is a CAAG captured in Lubero territory and transferred to Goma tw days ago. Unicef has been asked to take care of him. He was commander of a mai mai (tribal warrior group) estimated at a brigade ; that's why Baraka' although a child, is officially known as brigadier General Baraka. He is hidden somewhere in Goma for security reason.


And if the 700 Club/Operation Blessing could do it while Stan and I were on the groumd in Goma, I guess the UN peacekeers can too. (And no, I did not make up the names):


UN peacekeepers patrolling eastern Congo allegedly traded gold and weapons with the militias they were supposed to help disarm, according to leaked UN reports. An investigation by the BBC World Service, to be broadcast today, alleges that Pakistani peacekeepers based in the mineral-rich area of Mongbwalu bought gold from two rebel commanders nicknamed Dragon and KungFu.

Best

Tom

TROUFION
05-29-2007, 01:06 PM
Tom do you have links to the articles?

Have you read, A long Way gone by Ishmael Beah. It is an account of child soldiers written by a former child soldier in Sierra Leone.

T

Tom Odom
05-29-2007, 01:07 PM
Hey mate,

What you see is what I have from Carl. They are his old outfit's sitreps from the Congo. I will keep looking in the press tpo see if some open source news comes out.

Best

Tom

Stan
05-29-2007, 04:42 PM
You know Tom, when we would constantly check those tail numbers at N'djili, I had some real doubts that the folks at Clarendon were listening. Who, afterall would believe that 11 or 12 Electras were flying round the clock with a manifest of eggs and milk, returning with (ahem) nothing :cool:

I actually still have those doubts, but no longer care :D

Back in our days, had you reported this general, I'd have ended up with (what was her name) 'Becka' (a new DATT) much sooner.

On a serious note, those camps in Goma were not sitting around waiting for UN food donations, and I recall extremely young children already handling firearms.

The heart of darkness she was and still is !

Regards, Stan

Tom Odom
05-29-2007, 05:01 PM
You know Tom, when we would constantly check those tail numbers at N'djili, I had some real doubts that the folks at Clarendon were listening. Who, afterall would believe that 11 or 12 Electras were flying round the clock with a manifest of eggs and milk, returning with (ahem) nothing :cool:

I actually still have those doubts, but no longer care :D

Back in our days, had you reported this general, I'd have ended up with (what was her name) 'Becka' (a new DATT) much sooner.

On a serious note, those camps in Goma were not sitting around waiting for UN food donations, and I recall extremely young children already handling firearms.

The heart of darkness she was and still is !

Regards, Stan

Stan,

I did hear later that we actually had an effect on the Angolan airlift when our stuff was compared with some other reports. But remember Op Blessing at Goma and those brand new (newly refurbished) aircraft? The 700 Club and Op Blessing actually ended up getting fined over that one by the state of Virginia for using a humanitarian organization as a front to smuggle gold and diamonds. Fiery Kate got on their track as well after we left and while I was in Rwanda--because they were hiring former SEALs as bodyguards, etc. One of them told her what they were doing in their "humanitarian" work.

I guess what gets me about the 5 year old general is that you could not make this stuff up. I know we saw youngsters with plenty of blood on their hands but a 5 year old? and a general?

Best

Tom

Stan
05-29-2007, 05:36 PM
Stan,

I did hear later that we actually had an effect on the Angolan airlift when our stuff was compared with some other reports. But remember Op Blessing at Goma and those brand new (newly refurbished) aircraft? The 700 Club and Op Blessing actually ended up getting fined over that one by the state of Virginia for using a humanitarian organization as a front to smuggle gold and diamonds. Fiery Kate got on their track as well after we left and while I was in Rwanda--because they were hiring former SEALs as bodyguards, etc. One of them told her what they were doing in their "humanitarian" work.

I guess what gets me about the 5 year old general is that you could not make this stuff up. I know we saw youngsters with plenty of blood on their hands but a 5 year old? and a general?

Best

Tom

Glad to see we did end up with credit for those Angola reports.

RE 700 Club and Op Blessing - I dunno why it was so hard to believe, we'd seen far worse leading to death with the French. What's a little gold and few diamonds amongst friends :confused:

My 'retired' buds along the 'beltway bandit clubs' have stories that I could never repeat herein.

Yeah, 5 is a bit young for a flag. He could've been a good sergeant though (under my command) :cool:

Jedburgh
07-05-2007, 10:08 PM
ICG, 5 Jul 07: Congo: Consolidating the Peace (http://www.crisisgroup.org/library/documents/africa/central_africa/128_congo_consolidating_the_peace_web.pdf)

....Congo has a window of only a few years during which the international community can be expected to remain committed to supporting consolidation of the peace process. By the end of 2007, the UN Mission (MONUC) (http://www.monuc.org/Home.aspx?lang=en) will probably be under pressure to implement a significant drawdown, and donor support will likely be shifting to other post-conflict theatres. Without strong, clear signs of significant changes in governance, the window could close even more quickly. This report outlines the challenges that need to be addressed in the next two years....

Stan
08-02-2007, 06:16 AM
Starting to sound very familar, all over again. Even with 18,000 peace keepers, we can't seem to keep a lid on K-town. Doesn't look like we've learned much in the last two decades...leaving military observers unarmed around the former Zäirois :rolleyes:.


KINSHASA, Congo (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/wire/sns-ap-congo-riots,1,6336809.story?coll=sns-ap-world-headlines) -- The U.N. evacuated dozens of staff Wednesday from a remote east Congo town after mobs of stone-throwing protesters angry over the possible return of refugees from a minority ethnic group ransacked U.N. and other humanitarian agencies there, officials said.

The protesters, angry over rumors of the return of ethnic Congolese Tutsis, or Banyamulenge, looted a house used by the U.N. observers and wrecked the offices of the U.N. refugee agency and other aid groups, de Brosses said.

Despite the end of the mineral-rich country's wars in 2002, eastern Congo has remained a lawless and violent place where local militias hold sway far from the distant capital, Kinshasa.

Tom Odom
08-02-2007, 06:11 PM
Damn took a while to even find Moba, Stan. It is south of Kalemie on Lake Tanganyika, which is funny because I don't recall this being the area where the Congolese Tutsis, or Banyamulenge,came from in the first place. I thought they were from further north. Then again you never really need a good reason to riot in the Congo...

Best

Tom

Stan
08-02-2007, 06:39 PM
Damn took a while to even find Moba, Stan. It is south of Kalemie on Lake Tanganyika, which is funny because I don't recall this being the area where the Congolese Tutsis, or Banyamulenge,came from in the first place. I thought they were from further north. Then again you never really need a good reason to riot in the Congo...

Best

Tom

If I recall correctly, the Banyamulenge (the French and Belg called them collectivité Barundi...it was far easier to pronounce in French :D) began life as Burundi Tutsi immigrants and later in the 1900s sought work and settled in South Kivu. Later ethnic violence from Burundi's Hutu would drive more into Kivu (I'm guessing late 60s).

Our drivers often spoke about the Barundi stealing jobs from the Zäirois (as if the Zäirois were dying to get jobs or for that matter, work for a living).

All Africa reports (http://allafrica.com/stories/200708020755.html): Calm Returns After Anti-Banyamulenge Demo.


"After a day of looting, stone-throwing and break-ins into offices, the town is now calm and the last group of UN staff being evacuated is at the airport," Eusebe Hounsokou, the head of the UN Refugee Agency (UNHCR) in DRC, said on 2 August from Lubumbashi, the provincial capital.

So Tom, What do ya think ? Nothing left to steal or drink :wry:

Tom Odom
08-02-2007, 07:05 PM
So Tom, What do ya think ? Nothing left to steal or drink

At the JRTC we would call it a tactical freeze or pause--stop long enough to let them resupply and resume operations. Works in Louisiana, will work in the Congo

that is true on the 60's surge but there were earlier when the Tutsi King controlled much of this area. Dissident Tutsi family groups moved outward to get away from the King's power and stayed where they were after that power receded. We are talking the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

best

Tom

Stan
08-06-2007, 07:46 AM
For Tutsis of Eastern Congo, Protector, Exploiter or Both?

By Stephanie McCrummen
Washington Post Foreign Service
Monday, August 6, 2007


Villagers said that earlier this year Nkunda hoisted a flag and declared his mountain fiefdom a new country: Land of the Volcanoes (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/05/AR2007080501346.html).

KICHANGA, Congo -- On the way to the mountain headquarters of renegade Congolese Gen. Laurent Nkunda, there are villages patrolled by Laurent Nkunda's police and checkpoints where Nkunda's soldiers demand that truck drivers pay a tax to support their leader's cause.

Local residents can settle disputes these days in Nkunda's courts or attend church with a priest appointed by Nkunda, who is wanted on war crimes charges but lately has been wearing a button that reads "Rebels for Christ."


Video and more at the link...

Tom, Looks like he forgot his Ray-bans, rappel seat and carabiner. But then, perhaps he's not airborne qualified :wry:

Tom Odom
08-06-2007, 01:10 PM
"Is it really Nkunda who is the problem?" asked Nkunda, who carries a gold-tipped baton and often refers to himself in the third person. "They want to keep me as the problem so that they can explain all the problems in Congo through Nkunda. . . . But I will protect myself, and I will protect these small number of Tutsis who are here."

Never a good sign referring to yourself in the 3rd person...I wonder what Tom Odom would think?


"Rwanda cannot establish a relationship with such a person, but we can understand why Nkunda is Nkunda," Rwandan Foreign Minister Charles Murigande said in an interview. "We can understand his argument."

Armed with a sense of righteousness fortified by visiting American evangelical Christian groups, Nkunda has in recent months been carrying out attacks against village after village.

Charles, I know. He is quite adroit and when it comes to the international relations game, there is no one better. See this interview (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/06/AR2007080600019.html) for an example.

One has to wonder which evangelicals have hooked up with Nkunda.

Best

Tom

Stan
08-18-2007, 10:03 AM
From The New Times (http://www.newtimes.co.rw/index.php?issue=1258&article=240), Rwanda's First Daily "The presence of Interahamwe militias in eastern Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) was given much priority during talks between Kampala and Kinshasa early this week."

Strange, they've only been there for the greater part of 2 decades, but then...


The development follows an attack in south western Uganda on August 9 by suspected Interahamwe. Three people were killed when machete-wielding armed men speaking a mixture of Kinyarwanda and Kiswahili attacked Butogota Trading Centre, according to government. The assault on Uganda was the third in less than two weeks.


The DRC, Rwanda, Burundi and Uganda are members of the Tripartite. "Negative forces is the key thing on the agenda in September," Kiyonga said soon after meeting MPs on the Defence and Internal Affairs Committee at Parliament. But he said their strength "is of a nuisance level" that would not threaten to overrun any establishment in the region. Most of the negative forces including the Lord's Resistance Army (LRA), Allied Democratic Forces (ADF), the Democratic Forces for the Liberation of Rwanda (or Interahamwe/ex-FAR) and NALU have been blacklisted by the Fusion Cell in Congo that brings together members of the Tripartite Plus Commission and the United States.

Greater details at the link...

carl
08-18-2007, 12:18 PM
Damn took a while to even find Moba, Stan. It is south of Kalemie on Lake Tanganyika

I knew a Congolese woman from Moba. Her family had a cattle farm in the area before they were all run out in the late wars. We picked her up in Lubumbashi and landed in Bujumbura on the way back to Kin. She was very nervous in Bujumbura and said if she left the airport she was afraid they would kill her.

She told me that when she was a girl she had to run for her life twice. Both times a neighbor came and told them the soldiers were coming so her mother took her into the bush and they stayed there for months. They went into the bush with the clothes they were wearing and what they had in their pockets. She said they slept on the ground drank from streams, ate what they could find and what people from villages would give them.

I never realized until talking with that woman how all those millions of displaced Congolese died.


"Rwanda cannot establish a relationship with such a person, but we can understand why Nkunda is Nkunda," Rwandan Foreign Minister Charles Murigande said in an interview. "We can understand his argument."

In Kinshasa, the conventional wisdom was that Nkunda was Rwanda's man in the Congo.

Stan
08-22-2007, 11:32 AM
Free elections in the DRC ? (http://allafrica.com/stories/200708210082.html) I thought, naw, this must be yet another Congo drill - reel 'em in, eliminate one's opponent's, Commandre, and all of his forces :D

An intriguing article from All Africa, A bit long-winded covering history from the late 1800s, but they do finally get to the point on page two.


With conflicts in the Democratic Republic of Congo cooling, and warriors aspiring to become democrats, the country’s new constitution is coming under increased scrutiny.

In a novel development for the DRC – where there is persistent worry that only a strong centre can hold the far-flung state together – power is split between national, provincial and even local institutions, write constitutional experts Olivier Kambala wa Kambala and Coel Kirkby. This is a development that should be welcomed, they say.

The new provinces will become operational in 2009. Each province is electing a provincial assembly, which in turn will elect a governor. The assembly will share power with the national legislature in many civil rights areas and can also draft its laws for a provincial development plan, regulate customary law, raise taxes and more. On paper, the Congolese provinces have similar powers to Nigerian states and South African provinces. This analogy inevitably invokes the dreaded “f”-word, federalism.

Right now the situation is different. First, Congolese citizens have participated in a few free and fair elections. Second, there is time to establish governing and administrative institutions before the new provinces are inaugurated. Last, poorer provinces have a constitutionally-assured share of national revenues. Nevertheless, this ambitious plan will face monumental challenges.


More at the link

Stan
08-23-2007, 10:46 AM
Reuters reports (http://www.reuters.com/article/homepageCrisis/idUSL22874101._CH_.2400) - Ugandan army says 10,000 refugees flee Congo


A Ugandan military spokesman said the refugees feared renewed clashes between Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) troops and forces loyal to General Laurent Nkunda after Nkunda organised an anti-U.N. demonstration that turned into a riot.

"Approximately 10,000 people have come from the Congolese side fearing renewed violence ... local district authorities and aid organisations are trying to help them," said Uganda's army spokesman for western Uganda, Lieutenant Tabaro Kiconco.

Kiconco said the refugees told officials in Uganda's Kisoro District that they expected more fighting after villagers, urged on by Nkunda's men, rioted on Tuesday in protest against U.N. troops they said failed to protect them from militias.

Stan
08-28-2007, 04:36 PM
Rwanda's News Agency (http://www.ari-rna.co.rw/) covers the abysmal results of talks held in April, where Rwandan officials thought they managed to get an agreement - telling the DRC to crack down on FDLR forces in hiding.


As Tripartite Plus army chiefs map out strategies to do away with Democratic Forces for the Liberation of Rwanda (FDLR) guerrillas in D R Congo, political opposition parties in Europe have announced a plan to cooperate with the rebels, RNA reports.

Brussels based Paternariat Intwari of CNA-Ubumwe, FDRL-CMC and PDN of former Rwandan Defense Minister Gen. Ben Habyalimana and journalist Deo Mushayidi say they want to merge with the guerrillas to oust the Kigali government.

"Those people (FDLR) are fighting because they have a reason. So because we all have the same case we want to come together to solve the same cause", Mushayidi said yesterday on a BBC great lakes program.

The FDLR are Rwandans, the RPF are also Rwandans and all the parties you hear about are Rwandans as well - so all we are saying is that we have the right to meet, he said.

Army chiefs from the four-member countries under the tripartite plus commission framework are in Kigali for a two-day meet. The countries are Rwanda, Uganda, Burundi and DR Congo.

More at the link and also at Allafrica.com

Stan
09-10-2007, 12:09 PM
From All Africa (http://allafrica.com/stories/200709100028.html) via Kigali's New Times (http://www.newtimes.co.rw/), "Congolese rebel leader General Laurent Nkunda has handed over 50 war captives of the Democratic Forces for the Liberation of Rwanda (FDLR) to the UN Mission in DR Congo, Monuc."


We handed them over to MONUC because we want to prove to the UN that we are fighting FDLR who are being supported by DR Congo Government," Nkunda's spokesman Rene Munyarugerero said by telephone from North Kivu yesterday.

The United Nations Mission in the Democratic Republic of Congo (Monuc (http://www.monuc.org/news.aspx?newsID=15364)) urged "renegade troops fighting in the east of the Democratic Republic of Congo to integrate into the country's regular army. The call on Saturday came as the UN humanitarian chief told Al Jazeera that the Nord-Kivu province is suffering from a level of violence and brutality not seen anywhere else in the world".

tequila
09-11-2007, 08:43 AM
Prevalence of rape in East Congo described as worst in the world (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/08/AR2007090801194_pf.html)- Washington Post, 9 Sep.


The prevalence and intensity of sexual violence against women in eastern Congo are "almost unimaginable," the top U.N. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/United+Nations?tid=informline) humanitarian official said Saturday after visiting the country's most fragile region, where militia groups have preyed on the civilian population for years.

John Holmes (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/John+Holmes?tid=informline), who coordinates U.N. emergency relief operations, said 4,500 cases of sexual violence have been reported in just one eastern province since January, though the actual number is surely much higher. Rape has become "almost a cultural phenomenon," he said.

"Violence and rape at the hands of these armed groups has become all too common," said Holmes, who spent four days in eastern Congo. "The intensity and frequency is worse than anywhere else in the world."

The chronic sexual violence is just one facet of a broader environment of insecurity that still defines eastern Congo after a decade-long war that killed an estimated 4 million people, mostly from hunger and other effects of being driven from their homes ...

Stan
09-11-2007, 09:13 AM
Even as far back as 1994, sexual violence in the eastern province was seen as an integral part of the war. The military forces involved in these acts were often rewarded by their leaders, government officials or powerful patrons.

In Rwanda, soldiers raped women as part of a general attack, while they killed and injured civilians and pillaged and destroyed property.

As long as such a sick climate exists with no form of punishment, females will continue to be targeted.

Tom Odom
09-11-2007, 01:13 PM
Echoing Stan....

The only woman ever tried for crimes against humanity was the former Rwandan government's Minister for Women and Family Affairs Pauline Nyiramasuhuko. She organized rape gangs as part of the genocide and led them in the field. Some 250,000 women were raped and those that survived the genocide are still dying from AIDS.

All of this has particular import in a societal structure that has been stood on its head; Rwanda today is a society dominated by women because of the losses in males suffered in the genocide.

What got me the most in Goma was that this behavior continued in the camps against Hutu women; rapes were common and we saw the evidence as the refugees crossed the border.

Tom

Stan
09-11-2007, 02:22 PM
I read most of the articles in sincere disbelief...Yes, they were mostly bleeds, copy and paste.

Somewhere along all this Investigative Reporting, even the UN neglects to mention that a Minister's Wife (then) in her late 40's - That is a Female for the uninitiated - orchestrated global rape and death.

Granted, it was taking place well before her involvement, but certainly not at the alarming rate of today. It's as if two or even three generations of Hutu will have to die before Pauline's inexplicable actions will finally end.


Moreover, Pauline Nyiramasuhuko (http://rwandarugali.tripod.com/rwanda/id190.html), a former Rwandan Minister for Women and Family Affairs, is also the first woman ever charged with encouraging rape as an instrument of genocide. She is accused of being one of the most zealous organisers of the 1994 genocide. Her trial at the International Tribunal for Rwanda resumes this month in the Tanzanian city of Arusha. She had been a minister for two years when the killings started. Given the charges against her, and the ferocity with which she allegedly
urged the Interahamwe militia to slaughter Tutsi "cockroaches" - old
women and unborn babies included - she stands accused of working to eliminate part of the very section of society she was duty-bound to protect and help.

Stan
09-13-2007, 09:36 AM
OCHA North Kivu Humanitarian Situation Report (http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/RWB.NSF/db900SID/YSAR-76YQRC?OpenDocument) - 12 Sep 2007


CONTEXT

The Congolese army, Laurent Nkunda’s troops and FDLR/Mayi-Mayi remain on their positions in and around Sake and following the cessation of hostilities agreed on September 6th, despite some breaches reported in Ngungu and Rubaya, in Masisi district.

A UN vehicle (MONUC) was stoned on September 11th in Nyamilima, in Ruthsuru district. No one was injured, but this incident keeps increasing insecurity on all UN staff as there is a risk of confusion among the population between MONUC and UN agencies.

MONUC has appealed to all parties in conflict to respect the cessation of hostilities and find a peaceful solution to the situation.

POPULATION MOVEMENTS

In the past days, most of the population from Sake and Ufumandu (Masisi territory) has moved east towards Mugunga, and south along the Kivu Lake shore and Minova in South Kivu. Access to these areas is less restricted than in areas north or west of Sake.


India to send 850 peacekeepers to Congo (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/India_to_send_850_peacekeepers_to_Congo/rssarticleshow/2363407.cms)


NEW DELHI: India is sending a fresh contingent of 850 military personnel to Congo to bolster its UN peacekeeping troops presence in that country to over 4,666 personnel.

A battalion of the 6th Sikh Light Infantry would leave here on September 16 to take up peacekeeping responsibility in the Southern Katanga region of the strife-torn country.

The Sikh troops, who would replace those of the Rajputana Rifles, were today given a farewell by the Deputy Chief of the Army Staff, Lt Gen Susheel Gupta.

Stan
09-25-2007, 06:51 PM
A two-week peace treaty, nearly a world record was almost too hard to take.

AllAfrica (http://allafrica.com/stories/200709250679.html) via UN Integrated Regional Information Networks, 25 September 2007



Military dissidents loyal to renegade army general Laurent Nkunda have resumed fighting in the eastern province of North Kivu, in the Democratic Republic of Congo, two weeks after a ceasefire was negotiated by the UN Mission in the Congo (MONUC).

"The insurgents launched attacks against three of our positions in the morning, in Ngungu where the clashes had ceased, in Karuba and in Kichanga [in Masisi territory, northeast of Goma, the provincial capital]," Colonel Delphin Kahindi, the deputy commander of the Congolese army in the province, said on 24 September.

"The number of people forced to flee violence this year in the DRC's North Kivu province has passed the 300,000 mark, the highest level in over three years," said UN Refugee Agency (UNHCR) spokesperson Jens Hesemann.

Rex Brynen
10-07-2007, 01:26 AM
From the NYT, 7 October 2007 (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/07/world/africa/07congo.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&hp):


Eastern Congo is going through another one of its convulsions of violence, and this time it seems that women are being systematically attacked on a scale never before seen here. According to the United Nations, 27,000 sexual assaults were reported in 2006 in South Kivu Province alone, and that may be just a fraction of the total number across the country.

“The sexual violence in Congo is the worst in the world,” said John Holmes, the United Nations under secretary general for humanitarian affairs. “The sheer numbers, the wholesale brutality, the culture of impunity — it’s appalling.”

I found this particularly striking (and reminiscent in its way of the "night commuters" of northern Uganda sleeping in the bush to avoid LRA abduction and abuse):


The United Nations peacekeepers here seem to be stepping up efforts to protect women.

Recently, they initiated what they call “night flashes,” in which three truckloads of peacekeepers drive into the bush and keep their headlights on all night as a signal to both civilians and armed groups that the peacekeepers are there. Sometimes, when morning comes, 3,000 villagers are curled up on the ground around them.

Stan
10-08-2007, 11:03 AM
Rex, thanks for the post !


Recently, they initiated what they call “night flashes,” in which three truckloads of peacekeepers drive into the bush and keep their headlights on all night as a signal to both civilians and armed groups that the peacekeepers are there. Sometimes, when morning comes, 3,000 villagers are curled up on the ground around them.

I recall other NGOs doing this even as early as 1991 following civil war and unrest. As I recall, it worked just long enough for the (then) Zairois to 'catch up with the program', and the UN workers became the meal of the day.

I previously posted my thoughts on this apalling lack of humanity in Congo and Rwanda, and felt we should also keep in mind that members of the UN's peacekeeping forces have been equally stellar in teaching the Congolese and other Africans morals.

10 FEB 05: U.N. Sex Crimes in Congo (http://abcnews.go.com/2020/UnitedNations/story?id=489306) Prostitution, Rapes Run Rampant


Widespread allegations of sexual exploitation and abuse of Congolese women, boys and girls have been made against U.N. personnel who were sent to help and protect them -- despite a so-called zero tolerance policy touted by the United Nations toward such behavior.

The range of sexual abuse includes reported rapes of young Congolese girls by U.N. troops; an Internet pedophile ring run from Congo by Didier Bourguet, a senior U.N. official from France; a colonel from South Africa accused of molesting his teenage male translators; and estimates of hundreds of underage girls having babies fathered by U.N. soldiers who have been able to simply leave their children and their crimes behind.

21 JUL 07:
UN probes alleged sex crimes by Moroccan peacekeepers in Ivory Coast (http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/07/31/un-peacekeepers-allegations.html)


A United Nations delegation was en route to Ivory Coast Tuesday to probe allegations that Moroccan peacekeepers have sexually exploited girls under the age of 18, an organization official said.

A 730-member battalion of Moroccan troops has been confined to barracks in the northern Ivory Coast city of Bouake for more than a week after a preliminary UN investigation "revealed serious allegations of widespread sexual exploitation and abuse," according to a UN statement last week.

Seems we have a long road ahead of us and perhaps AFRICOM will be better able to address this and fund a solution.

carl
10-11-2007, 03:12 AM
Seems we have a long road ahead of us and perhaps AFRICOM will be better able to address this and fund a solution.

If AFRICOM were to get some funding for a solution, what would it look like, in the eastern Congo at least?

carl
10-11-2007, 03:18 AM
One of the reasons I regret leaving Congo in March, is that I won't be on the spot to see how all this is going to work out. Especially given the attitude of the people I was able to talk to.

They were very optimistic about the process, not about the individuals, but about the political structure, idealistic even. One guy told me, "We'll see how Kabila does. If we don't like it, in 5 years we'll vote him out". I hope it works out that way.

Tom Odom
10-11-2007, 12:53 PM
Congo-Kinshasa: New Democracy Must Build on Local Leaders

The premise and flaw is in the title of the article.

Local leaders are determined by whom? The locals correct? The problem in apllying that to the DRC is that Kinshasa is an abberation in the "Congo" as the locals are a melange. The provinces when it is all said and done remain tribal and tribal alliance-based.

The DRC is not a country and this article just trots out the same old tired phrases to describe but at the sametime camouflage that reality. the authors writing safely from the UK and Canada for AllAfrica are not going to cross the PC line by stating such realities.

Best
Tom

Stan
10-11-2007, 02:02 PM
Hey Carl !
As always, Tom's got this one - dead wringer.

I never had this feeling I needed to go back as if I was missing something. Then, after 10 years, I was fairly sick of the joint and it's endless routine.

Don't know if you recall the -ahem- great 1990's opposition leader, Etienne Tshisekedi from Mobutu's days. Basically, a real sour puss around the embassy (when he came out of hiding long enough to hound the Zairian government and ask the Americans for help). He also promised (among other great things) democracy once Mo was gone. "You folks get rid of Mo, and I'll fix this dump"!

You can't run Zaire from K-town without a big stick, and that has never changed.

Even when the Embassy's 'source' (somebody's cook) managed to turn Tom's ground-zero reports ass-backwards, the country was on a downward spiral and most had completely disregarded events in Goma, which would ultimately collapse the country.

15 years later, the fate of the DRC appears to still reside in the east.

Enter Kabila (or better said, Bemba's arch rival). Bemba was my neighbor for years (most impressive having your own .50 nest if front of your main gate).

With his death and his son Joseph now in the hot seat trying to once again run the DRC from K-town, it appears little more than a glimmer of hope, which the naive Congolese thrive on.

Sorry, I believe in Santa, but not democracy in the Congo :cool:

Stan
10-11-2007, 06:18 PM
Hey Carl !

If AFRICOM were to get some funding for a solution, what would it look like, in the eastern Congo at least?

I enjoyed your e-mails and I'm thinking along the very same lines (not exactly U.S. SWC strategy, but Sub-Sahara doesn't always play by the rules ...so why should we ?).


Stan: You mentioned in the post regarding the NYT story about rape in the east of the DRC that perhaps AFRICOM could fund a solution. I wonder what the solution would be. The only thing I could think of that would work would be talking Kabila into putting a brigade of the FARDC in the hands of some A-teams and allowing them to train and lead it. Then, sending them forth to do the Lord's work. Carl

Before I start, I'd like to share what a 'retired' SNCO wrote me after crossing back into Uganda on the 'slide' (timeframe intentionally omitted): "Dude ! I really needed your Frog and Lingala today. Nearly a brigade of armed UN soldiers came through - Indians are fun to watch ;) -, moving on foot from street to street and every corner in between protecting something strategic (I have no clue). With nothing better to do, I tried to strike a conversation with one. ####, you should have seen this boy, he was weighed down with belted ammo and some RPG-kinda-lookin-weapon on his shoulder (wished I paid more attention at Bragg's anti-terrorist school instead of drinkin with you Stan !). I greeted him in English out of the blue, and he replied with a facial expression as if he had just been spoken to by a talking goat...Hey Dude ! LOLOLOL

I've known this SF NCO for better than 28 years. However, I have no idea what he was there for. He likes this Sierra and keeps inviting me to join a beltway bandit company and, run with him.

That said, Carl, I think some folks are already 'forward in the foxhole'. AFRICOM ? Nope, I think folks like BW are spooling up. If I was intent on bartering for contracts, I'd put my money on eastern Congo too. Just seems to fit together with AFRICOM opening her doors. Even with 800 folks, they can't and won't slip into Goma for a 'look see'.

Your suggestion: A brigade of FARDC (Forces Armées de la Republic Democratic du Congo) under the leadership of an 'A-team'.

I don't like that idea for many reasons because I can't trust the Zairian mentality two inches from my nose.

If we look at what happened after a 10-day course with MONUC (Mission des Nations Unies en République Démocratique du Congo) in July 2005 (a mini Officer Basic Course), one should quickly realize just what happens when the 'Patron' goes home - back to basic survival. MONUC came back in late 2006 only to discover that these "professionally trained soldiers and leaders" were the root of the problem, only smarter and better equipped. One DRC Officer recently promoted to 0-6 used his rank to extort money from local business people in the Ituri district.

We won't win at this rate, and the training is only making them professional thieves.

My answer (and I have some SF buds previously in Zaire who agree). Dump mucho BS on the AP wires of imminent paratroopers into Goma from France, Belgium and the USA. Allow said BS to marinade for a week or so and really send two supported-infantry battalions and flank Goma from the east and west simultaneously destroying everything in their path. There will be no airlift of humanitarian supplies like water or rice (or baby clothes - ask Tom).

Exit Strategy. Dig mass grave, lime to taste, remain on full-boil for one month, destroy all weapons and ammo, take no prisoners and pull plug.

Jungle Rules Apply !

carl
10-11-2007, 07:52 PM
Stan:

I guess what I meant was A-Teams the way I understood them to work in Vietnam, not only training the people but staying with them and leading them in the field.

That is probably not politically feasible, but something along those lines or perhaps like the British officered Arab Legion from the old days is what I was thinking of. The leadership would have to be other than Congolese for the reasons you state.

This all pie in the sky most probably but if you could talk everybody into it, I don't think the force would have to do much fighting. Once the force was trained well, BS on the AP would get the rapists thinking about it, and then one real battle to prove the force was serious might cause everybody else to melt into the bush.

My basic idea is get a force of Congolese privates with trustworthy commisioned and non-commisioned officers who would probably have to be ex-pats.

Tom Odom
10-11-2007, 08:02 PM
Stan:

I guess what I meant was A-Teams the way I understood them to work in Vietnam, not only training the people but staying with them and leading them in the field.

That is probably not politically feasible, but something along those lines or perhaps like the British officered Arab Legion from the old days is what I was thinking of. The leadership would have to be other than Congolese for the reasons you state.

This all pie in the sky most probably but if you could talk everybody into it, I don't think the force would have to do much fighting. Once the force was trained well, BS on the AP would get the rapists thinking about it, and then one real battle to prove the force was serious might cause everybody else to melt into the bush.

My basic idea is get a force of Congolese privates with trustworthy commisioned and non-commisioned officers who would probably have to be ex-pats.

Carl,

What you are describing happened in 1964-1965. I just don't think anyone has the stomach for it anymore.

The world's solution to this now is the same as it was in 1994-1996 when I wrote report after report warning it was coming. That is to say, make clucking noises over the 94 genocide and say, "never again" looking sternly at the camera until the lights go off. Then ignore it until it comes up again and repeat with variations authorized.

The reality is that if the Congolese (a term used most loosely) do not fix it, it will not be fixed. That is why I liked the RPA--they did something on their own and they stuck with it.

Best

Tom

carl
10-11-2007, 08:29 PM
Tom:

I am going to have to read up on the events of 64-65 since my ignorance is showing.

Could you say the problem in the eastern DRC are large groups of militarized bandits? So the solution wouldn't so much involve a FM 3-24 type counterinsurgency operations as much as punitive expeditions where you would kill a bunch and hopefully frighten the rest into good behavior.

I am asking this because I talked to a Pakistani officer in Kisangani once and he told me how much more sophisticated their operations in Congo were compared to American operations in Vietnam. I remember thinking to myself that if these guys were essentially bandits how sophisticated do you have to be.

Stan
10-12-2007, 09:56 AM
Hey Carl !


Stan:

I guess what I meant was A-Teams the way I understood them to work in Vietnam, not only training the people but staying with them and leading them in the field.

That is probably not politically feasible, but something along those lines or perhaps like the British officered Arab Legion from the old days is what I was thinking of. The leadership would have to be other than Congolese for the reasons you state.

This all pie in the sky most probably but if you could talk everybody into it, I don't think the force would have to do much fighting. Once the force was trained well, BS on the AP would get the rapists thinking about it, and then one real battle to prove the force was serious might cause everybody else to melt into the bush.

My basic idea is get a force of Congolese privates with trustworthy commisioned and non-commisioned officers who would probably have to be ex-pats.

I'd be more concerned about those that 'melted into the bush', as historically, they often come back for incomprehensable reasons that usually result in trouble. Probably why the former pres Mo put all his enemies in the river. There's no exile, no coming back, no funeral...just fish food.

Even with the large numbers of Indian peacekeepers there, performing basically peace enforcement, they've accomplished little. I also feel those in charge did not assume just how much risk is acceptable risk. It reminds me of what happened to Canadian General Dallaire's UNAMIR with 5,000 troops. They fought off small military excursions and slowed the killings, but it didn't take long to realize he went there literally unarmed for a bout in the bush.

In order to do this job, we'll need good ol' western leadership combined with ruthless professionals like the RPA.

Here's the link to Tom's Dragon Operations: hostage rescues in the Congo, 1964-1965. (http://cgsc.cdmhost.com/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/p4013coll11&CISOPTR=155&CISOBOX=1&REC=1) If the PDF doesn't open (I had to try 3 times) you can just go here (http://cgsc.leavenworth.army.mil/carl/resources/csi/odom/odom.asp) (which is actually a little easier on the eyes).

Regards, Stan

carl
10-13-2007, 08:21 AM
In order to do this job, we'll need good ol' western leadership combined with ruthless professionals like the RPA.

I wonder if Bono would partially finance the effort? He could have a concert in a big stadium and everything. Nah, probably not.

I have a copy of Dragon Operations at home but haven't read it yet. I can do that now by computer. That should complete Tom's trilogy, unless there a fourth I don't know about.

Stan
10-13-2007, 06:39 PM
I wonder if Bono would partially finance the effort? He could have a concert in a big stadium and everything. Nah, probably not.

I have a copy of Dragon Operations at home but haven't read it yet. I can do that now by computer. That should complete Tom's trilogy, unless there a fourth I don't know about.

I'm thinking AFRICOM will sub-contract !

Tom's long overdue for a 4th. He probably should give up his day job, leaving more time for the Bambie hunts :cool:

A 4th book however may mean a return to WAWA and I ain't going. Previous editions sent Tom to Belgium for historical data. This time however, he can just ask himself how bad the Sierra was.

As always, you and I will provide support, at the FOBs :D

EDIT: What in creation is that in the picture ? Now here's a squirrel with balls !

Tom Odom
10-14-2007, 12:07 AM
1. Leavenworth Paper #14 Dragon Operations

2. Shaba II The French and Belgian Intervention in Zaire in 1978

3. Certain Victory the US Army in the Gulf War, Co author with Bob Scales and Terry Johnson

4. Journey Into Darkness Genocide in Rwanda

#5? Who knows?

Ken White
10-14-2007, 02:13 AM
Do you recall Rex Davis during that effort at Leavenworth? :eek:

Tom Odom
10-15-2007, 02:30 PM
Do you recall Rex Davis during that effort at Leavenworth? :eek:

Ken,

Sorry, no. We did Certain Victory in the old Post Offce at Ft Monroe. Called ourselves "The Mailhouse Gang".

Was he somehow tagged with us?

Best

Tom

Ken White
10-15-2007, 04:45 PM
But then he said a lot of things...

I do know he was briefly at Leavenworth in mid '91 and involved with the after action wrap up on DS/DS.

No biggie. Interesting Dude -- in the Chinese wish sense. :rolleyes:

Stan
10-15-2007, 06:43 PM
But then he said a lot of things...

I do know he was briefly at Leavenworth in mid '91 and involved with the after action wrap up on DS/DS.

No biggie. Interesting Dude -- in the Chinese wish sense. :rolleyes:

Ken, is this by any chance then MAJ Rex Davis who contributed to Urban Combat Operations, chapter 3 ?

Damn, talk about a small world (http://www.specialoperations.com/mout/doctrinea.html). Our Dave D. wrote chapter 2, Intelligence !

Uh Oh ...Gortex is hangin there :o

Ken White
10-15-2007, 08:46 PM
a COL, retired in late 91 or early 92.

Stan
10-23-2007, 12:15 PM
Uganda's The New Vision (http://www.newvision.co.ug/D/8/13/593361) reports another influx of 8,000 Congolese refugees escaping the fighting in eastern Congo.


The refugee influx started on Friday, as Congolese from villages close to the Ugandan border entered Bunagana in Kisoro district.

The Congolese army deployed three helicopter gunships against Nkunda’s forces and Mai Mai militias, prompting thousands of residents to flee their homes in northeast Goma, AFP reported on Sunday.

Civilians also told AFP that they fled Rwandan Hutu rebels of the Democratic Forces for the Liberation of Rwanda (FDLR).

In August and September, about 30,000 Congolese fled North Kivu to Kisoro to escape skirmishes between the Congolese army and the local population there.

Two Congolese admitted in a hospital in Bunagana with bullet wounds told UNHCR officials that they were caught in the cross-fire as fighting raged around their homes on Saturday morning.

Stan
11-02-2007, 08:29 AM
Looks a lot like 1994 only this time the war is on the other side of the border keeping most of the Aid agencies from assisting.

Congo refugee camps threatened by cholera (http://www.reuters.com/article/homepageCrisis/idUSL01449778._CH_.2400)


More than 45,000 displaced people now live in five overcrowded camps on the edge of Goma where aid agencies are struggling to maintain minimum hygiene standards.

The medical charity Medecins Sans Frontieres (MSF) said it recorded 533 cases of cholera at health centres it supports, in both the camps and Goma, over the past six weeks.

"The main crisis is in the camps around Goma," said Patrick Lavand'homme, head the U.N. Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs in Goma.

Some 189 cases were reported between Oct. 24 and 28, mostly in the camps for the displaced, he said.

Stan
11-07-2007, 03:47 PM
A senior United Nations official (http://allafrica.com/stories/200711061012.html) in the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC) today decried the problem of sexual violence in the war-torn country, saying perpetrators are mostly police, military and militia members but civilians are increasingly involved, and calling for stronger response measures.


"This is an extraordinary large problem. It is not just an anecdotal problem but a massive one that demands we all combined try and make sure that essentially not only women who are victims of rape and abuse are treated but that sexual violence must stop," said Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon's Deputy Special Representative Ross Mountain.

He voiced particular concern about the conflict in North Kivu where since September, about 150,000 people have fled their homes, bringing the total in the province as a whole to about 800,000 displaced persons.

With the continuous tense situation in DRC's troubled eastern region triggering more sexual violence against women, he said that while statistics are hard to come by, "we are dealing literally with hundred of thousands of victims over the last couple of years."

carl
11-07-2007, 05:08 PM
Stan:

on the road from the Bukavu airport to town i used to see the women toting the giant loads on their backs, all bent over and tramping, tramping, tramping. impossibly hard manual labor every day of their lives and to add an almost certain rape on top of it; everytime i saw one of those women my heart broke.

Carl

Stan
11-07-2007, 06:01 PM
Hey Carl !
Glad to hear from you...wondered, what's that guy up to in Iraq these days ?


Stan:

on the road from the Bukavu airport to town i used to see the women toting the giant loads on their backs, all bent over and tramping, tramping, tramping. impossibly hard manual labor every day of their lives and to add an almost certain rape on top of it; everytime i saw one of those women my heart broke.

Carl

After nearly 10 years there, watching push carts (mostly males) and women with a case of beer on their heads, I had the same thoughts. I don't want to sound cruel herein, but rape in Zaire while I was there was not as horrific as we the West consider such an evil deed.

I recall the CDC folks explaining that a city of 5 million and 35% of the heterosexual community was HIV positive, and Russian roulette would be safer (we had one of those too at the embassy).

IMO, the number of rape victims back then were nearly the same. But, we were supporting Mobutu and his regime...we tended to look the other way so long as we could use Zaire to stage against Angola and the Russians. When Mo fell out of grace (read ran out of useful purpose) we really messed up his days of fortune and favors. :eek:

Honestly, nothing has changed other than our attention in that part of Africa.

Case in point. As Tom and I sat in the middle of a refugee crisis wondering what the folks in K-town were doing and why we weren't getting support, the embassy was planning a quiet way out, by explaining this would last but a week or two, tops :confused:

Rape victims were hardly worth reading (Tom reported those too).

Regards, Stan

carl
11-09-2007, 04:43 AM
Stan:

do you really think there was as much rape in congo in before 94 as
there is now? there are more armed groups running around now than
there were then. i always read there is more now, but you and Tom are
the guys who should know. the sight of those women bent over carrying
those huge loads will always stay with me.

Stan
11-09-2007, 01:28 PM
Hey Carl,
Per our e-mails, here are my observations and overall opinion.

First (forgive me for this reality check), the Zairians never considered or defined getting laid by force as rape. Whether or not the 'partner' was willing, is not relevant. We could call this 'date rape' but an entirely different set of customs, traditions and mind set.

Case in point: While in Gbadolite on an MTT (Tom was in fact in Zaire, but we never met) training on 113s and 114s, and M2HBs, one of the Special Presidential Division (DSP) officers told us (my team) we could have 'anything' we wanted tonite, and to point her out once we've decided. One of the team members decided he would go for it. The next morning he told us he could not go through with 'it' although she was extremely sexy and otherwise available. She was told by the DSP officer, that this Soldier wants you, and your President dictates that you perform. The women cried and begged, and finally our team member returned to the hotel 'no joy'. That was a rather friendly form of almost rape. Had that DSP officer wanted it for himself...well, far less conversation.

I doubt that the levels or rape being reported are that high, but I also doubt people reporting these instances have a clue as to what they think goes on each and every day in Zaire. The press and UN have brought the issue to the surface and created an otherwise typical Zairian day into a nightmare.

Carl, it's not right...it's sick. It however takes place from the top down to the very last individual, and not just in the bush. I met plenty of Belgians who did the very same (my twisted 55 year-old neighbor). I have no idea what the extent is, but conclude it's little more than normal for Zairians.

Regards, Stan

Stan
11-12-2007, 11:04 AM
Yet another plan, blessed by the U.N. and full of political rhetoric. MONUC would be wise to view any agreements tied to physical movement (of Congolese soldiers) in the DRC with great care and skepticism.


Rwanda and the Democratic Republic of Congo (http://allafrica.com/stories/200711120003.html) (DRC) have reached an agreement that will see the latter disarm and expel genocidal forces, grouped in what is known as the Democratic Forces for the Liberation of Rwanda (FDLR).

DRC agreed to prepare a detailed plan to disarm the militia, while the UN Mission in Congo (Monuc) agreed to 'provide support to the planning and subsequent implementation consistent with its mandate and capacities.'

The plan will be shared with the Rwandan government by December 1, the communiqué added.

Stan
11-13-2007, 11:46 AM
Congo refugees flee (http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSL1316427720071113) after attack near camp, By Joe Bavier, KINSHASA (Reuters)


Thousands of refugees fled camps in eastern Democratic Republic of Congo's violent North Kivu province on Tuesday after the army said Tutsi-dominated insurgents attacked its positions nearby.

Army officials said they repelled the dawn raid on their positions near the Mugunga camp 10 km (6 miles) from the provincial capital, Goma, killing 27 fighters loyal to renegade General Laurent Nkunda.

"There's a massive movement of displaced towards Goma. It's thousands of people. They're packed onto the road, carrying whatever they can," Aya Shneerson, director of the U.N.'s World Food Programme in Goma, told Reuters by telephone on the main road from the camps into the city.

Tuesday's fighting followed diplomatic pressure to find a peaceful solution to the crisis in North Kivu, which some fear could escalate to full-scale war. Both the U.N. and U.S. have sent high-level delegations to North Kivu this month.

On Saturday, Congo and Rwanda agreed to collaborate to rid eastern Congo of the Hutu-dominated rebel Democratic Forces for the Liberation of Rwanda (FDLR), whose presence is a cause of the current crisis.

Stan
11-15-2007, 09:15 PM
Now here's an interesting approach..truck em home.

I may have to once again ask Tom why we didn't just bus the folks back across the borders :rolleyes:


The United Nations (http://allafrica.com/stories/200711150007.html) refugee agency has this week begun an operation to return hundreds of internally displaced persons (IDPs) in the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC) to their homes in the troubled north-eastern province of Ituri by the end of the year.

On Monday a convoy organized by the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) took about 210 Congolese from Beni in North Kivu province, which has become extremely volatile this year, along bush tracks to the town of Komanda, which is located in Ituri.

A second convoy, this time carrying 216 returnees, left Beni early today bound for Ituri province, according to a press report issued by UNHCR.

Two convoys each week are planned over the next month so that eventually an estimated 2,400 Congolese should be able to return to Ituri, with further returns dependent on demand.

Tom Odom
11-20-2007, 07:41 PM
The Lord's Resistance Army, Ebola, and Incompetent Governors: C'est Normale! C'est le Congo!


Assembly members passed a motion of no-confidence against Cibalonza, the
South Kivu governor on 14 November, saying he had managed the province's
affairs badly and had failed to tackle rampant insecurity. Under the
constitution, a governor subjected to a no-confidence motion is supposed to
hand his resignation to the national president within 24 hours and dissolve
his provincial government. The governor has flown to Kinshasa for
consultation, but there is a developing crisis involving the civil society,
students, religious leaders and politicians of course..

A group of dissidents from Uganda's Lord's Resistance Army rebel group is
preparing to surrender to United Nations peacekeepers in the DR Congo,
western diplomats in Kinshasa told Reuters on Monday. A MONUC spokesman
contacted by Reuters declined to comment. The LRA agreed to a truce during
peace talks held in southern Sudan in August 2006. But the movement's top
leaders have stayed hidden in Congo(Garamba park), fearing arrest.

Health officials declared the end of an outbreak of deadly Ebola
haemorrhagic fever, believed to have killed up to 187 people over 8 months.
Congo's Health Ministry and the World Health Organisation (WHO) said that a
42-day period following the death of the last Ebola victim had ended on
November 13. Two towns (Mweka and Luebo) were affected by the outbreak in Kasai Occidental some months ago. .

Stan
11-21-2007, 09:08 AM
Assembly members passed a motion of no-confidence against Cibalonza, the South Kivu governor on 14 November, saying he had managed the province's affairs badly and had failed to tackle rampant insecurity. Under the constitution, a governor subjected to a no-confidence motion is supposed to hand his resignation to the national president within 24 hours and dissolve his provincial government. The governor has flown to Kinshasa for
consultation, but there is a developing crisis involving the civil society,
students, religious leaders and politicians of course..

Seems Governor Cibalonza (http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/IRIN/5e9ba7f946e3f332365a25ba58b8617a.htm) is not quite ready to depart his wealthy posting.


"Since the governor refuses to bend, the dispute can only be resolved in the courts. But in the time that takes, the insecurity is likely to get worse," said Philippe Buyoya, a political scientist at Lubumbashi and Kinshasa universities.

Cibalonza's spokesman and provincial justice minister Alfred Maisha said the governor had formally called on the Supreme Court of Justice in Kinshasa and the court of appeal in Bukavu, South Kivu's capital, to throw out the no-confidence ruling. He said the assembly had given no notice of the motion's debate nor offered the governor a chance to defend himself.

According to French language articles, Cibalonza had just been granted $76 million for his 2008 budget :rolleyes:

Au total, 38 milliards de francs congolais (76 millions de dollars) seront adoptés, à la grande joie du Gouverneur de province Célestin Cibalonza

Stan
11-21-2007, 09:31 AM
UN News Center, 20 November 2007 (http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=24745&Cr=democratic&Cr1=congo) – Citing ongoing security challenges in the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC)


Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon has recommended extending the mandate of the United Nations peacekeeping operation in the vast country for one more year, suggesting that a drawdown could commence following the holding of local elections.

In a new report to the Security Council, Mr. Ban paints a mixed picture of progress in the DRC, which has shown signs of good governance and stability but still faces long-standing security challenges in its volatile eastern region.

The Secretary-General recommends renewing MONUC’s mandate for one year with the current level of uniformed personnel – now nearly 18,400 troops and police, in addition to a full complement of civilian staff – at least until the end of local elections expected to be held in the second half of 2008.

Stan
11-22-2007, 02:32 PM
Health officials declared the end of an outbreak of deadly Ebola
haemorrhagic fever, believed to have killed up to 187 people over 8 months.
Congo's Health Ministry and the World Health Organisation (WHO) said that a
42-day period following the death of the last Ebola victim had ended on
November 13. Two towns (Mweka and Luebo) were affected by the outbreak in Kasai Occidental some months ago

Rwandan Government maintains Ebola alert (http://www.newtimes.co.rw/index.php?issue=1356&article=2470)


KIGALI - Rwanda will maintain the red alert issued on Ebola two months ago irrespective of DR Congo’s declaration on Monday that the deadly haemorrhagic fever has been contained and wiped out.

The State Minister in-charge of HIV/Aids and other Infectious Diseases, Dr Innocent Nyaruhirira, said yesterday that preventive measures, announced since the viral disease broke out in eastern DRC in September, are still in place.

“We can’t just accept such declaration without confirmation from the World Health Organisation (WHO),” Dr Nyaruhirira said Some of the control measures government announced include screening of travellers from DRC at various entry border posts into Rwanda.

Stan
11-22-2007, 02:44 PM
From Rwanda's New Times (http://www.newtimes.co.rw/index.php?issue=1356&article=2471), Congo soldiers shoot at Rwandan border

To quote Tom: "The Nemesis of all travellers in the Congo - the military checkpoint." So glad to see that more than a dacade later, life in the DRC is 'normal' :D


Congolese soldiers on Monday fired three bullets into the Rwandan territory of Petite Barriere, causing pandemonium as hundreds of Rwandan businesspersons at the border fled for their dear lives.

Jean Damascene Mungarakarama, a Rwandan who was at the Congolese side before the incident, claimed there were ‘brutal acts on Rwandans’ that culminated into the shooting.

He said: “I don’t know what had happened to the Congolese soldiers but they were so hostile and rude. We found them holding and beating up an old man who had just crossed the border claiming he was going to Laurent Nkunda (a Congelese rebel general).

“When we reached there, they asked us for the documents and they took them a way and started beating us and tried to lock us into a small room.

And this is how one crosses the DRC border relatively unharmed. It's called a payoff :wry:


Unfortunately (sic) another soldier who happened to be my friend came and stopped them saying they shouldn’t do any thing harmful to me because I was his friend they finally left us,” he added.

Tom Odom
11-22-2007, 08:38 PM
Congo soldiers shoot at Rwandan border

BY MARTIN TINDIWENSI
Congolese soldiers on Monday fired three bullets into the Rwandan territory of Petite Barriere, causing pandemonium as hundreds of Rwandan businesspersons at the border fled for their dear lives.

No reasons were given for the shooting but Rubavu Police officers said they were investigating the provocative act.


But Stan, for once they HIT (Rwanda) what they were shooting at :wry:

Stan
11-22-2007, 09:11 PM
But Stan, for once they HIT (Rwanda) what they were shooting at :wry:

Hey Tom !
True dat !

Let's begin with some common fallacies. A sharpshooter is NOT a sniper, and a Congolese soldier is certainly not a sharpshooter (unless otherwise on full auto) :D

I ran across this site (http://www.refintl.org/content/article/detail/1117/) looking for 'will of the Congolese'.

It may as well have been you that wrote it (I think you did).


Friday, February 1, 2002

With all the might with which Democratic Congo's Mt. Nyiragongo erupted, it killed only less than 200 people. In contrast, the number so far killed in the civil war approaches 1.5 million.

And yet the world is yet to react to that horror. That is not normal. Is it that we are no longer concerned? Is it because the Congo is deep in the heart of Africa, rich and with a working war economy?

Tom Odom
11-22-2007, 10:06 PM
Hey Tom !
True dat !

Let's begin with some common fallacies. A sharpshooter is NOT a sniper, and a Congolese soldier is certainly not a sharpshooter (unless otherwise on full auto) :D

I ran across this site (http://www.refintl.org/content/article/detail/1117/) looking for 'will of the Congolese'.

It may as well have been you that wrote it (I think you did).

Well I have written it in various places and I have said it:



On the Spot in Rwanda: The Challenge to Diplomats and Journalists in Reporting the Genocide

It has been ten years since the genocide in Rwanda, which saw its most intensive slaughter in the spring of 1994. In light of the 10-year anniversary of the tragic events in Rwanda, on April 14 the Institute hosted a special roundtable discussion with three journalists and three diplomats who were on the ground in Kigali and in the region at the time. Moderated by Michael Southwick, former Institute Africa specialist and then deputy chief of mission to the U.S. Embassy in Kenya, the session featured discussion of the multiple challenges faced by journalists in their efforts to obtain and report the story as it unfolded and the role of American diplomats in the region to shape the response of policymakers. The panel discussion was followed by a general question and answer session moderated by Southwick.

Speakers
(Note: 1994 Affiliations listed for all speakers)

Panel I

Alex Belida
Voice of America
Donatella Lorch
New York Times
Jennifer Parmalee
Washington Post
Panel II

Thomas Odom
U.S. Military Attaché to Rwanda and Zaire
David Rawson
U.S. Ambassador to Rwanda
Michael Southwick, Moderator
Deputy Chief of Mission, U.S. Embassy Kenya

Stan
11-23-2007, 02:42 PM
MONUC (http://www.monuc.org/news.aspx?newsID=16118) - Rebels, army clash in east Congo, amid worsening humanitarian crisis.


...government troops battled rebels for a third day straight amid a worsening humanitarian crisis that has displaced nearly 200,000 people in the past few months, a U.N. military spokesman said.

Clashes between the army and insurgents loyal to rebel leader Laurent Nkunda erupted early Friday around Rugari, about 35 kilometers (20 miles) north of the regional capital, Goma, said Maj. Viveck Goyal, a spokesman for the 18,000-strong peacekeeping force.

"The initial information we have is that the Nkunda elements are being pushed away from Rugari," Goyal said.

Stan
11-30-2007, 11:30 AM
Looks like Rwanda was smart to maintain the red alert issued on Ebola longer. Appears it's not over.


Health officials declared the end of an outbreak of deadly Ebola haemorrhagic fever, believed to have killed up to 187 people over 8 months. Congo's Health Ministry and the World Health Organisation (WHO) said that a 42-day period following the death of the last Ebola victim had ended on
November 13. Two towns (Mweka and Luebo) were affected by the outbreak in Kasai Occidental some months ago. .

Uganda, 29 November (http://www.reuters.com/article/featuredCrisis/idUSL29905822)


KAMPALA, Nov 29 (Reuters) - A new strain of the deadly Ebola virus has infected 51 people and killed 16 in an area of Uganda near the border with Democratic Republic of Congo, U.S. and Ugandan health officials said on Thursday.

"The mysterious disease outbreak in Bundibugyo has now been confirmed to be Ebola disease," Dr. Sam Zaramba, the Ugandan Health Ministry's director of health services, said in a statement.

Genetic analysis of samples taken from some of the victims shows it is a previously unknown type of Ebola, Dr. Tom Ksiazek of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said.

"This virus didn't behave as would be expected of some of the known strains," Ksiazek said in a telephone interview. "That tipped us off that this is probably a novel or new strain of Ebola."

Ugandan health officials have said that the virus appears to be unusually mild, but Ksiazek said it is not yet clear whether this is the case. He said experts need to check to see how many diagnosed patients are still alive.

Stan
12-11-2007, 09:48 AM
Voices of violence (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7045773.stm) - Congolese in eastern DR Congo tell how the recent violence has affected them. Residents of eastern Democratic Republic of Congo tell the BBC News website how the recent violence between rebels loyal to dissident General Laurent Nkunda and government soldiers in the region has affected them.


I can't reach my workers because of network problems. But I know they would've fled to the district where Nkunda is in control...They see that as the area where they have security.

All I know is that they run to his area because they have been badly-treated by the government. The government accuses people who live near and around the area where my farm is of supporting Nkunda's troops and so they cannot turn to the government for protection.


Nothing new with the above statement; typical Congolese mentality and equally typical Congolese government comprehension driven by fear and incapabilities in the region.

However this one really got me !


How can the government fight both Nkunda and the FDLR?

There is a feeling here in Bukavu that the US and the UK are supporting Nkunda through Rwanda.

Huh ?

Stan
12-11-2007, 10:40 AM
Government troops who took rebel territory are being driven out again !


Rebels in the Democratic Republic of Congo (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7137832.stm) have recaptured the eastern town of Mushake, which they lost last week.
They are also reported to have retaken positions in another important village nearby, Karuba.

There is no clear indication so far of the scale of casualties in the fighting, but another BBC correspondent has seen "many" government soldiers in hospital in Goma with bullet wounds, with more arriving.

Government forces began an operation last week against forces loyal to a renegade ex-general, Laurent Nkunda.

An army spokesman told the BBC the government would try to re-take the lost territory once more.

That's kind of got a ring of optimism :wry:

Rebels gain ground in DR Congo clashes (http://www.monuc.org/news.aspx?newsID=16257)


A week after Congolese forces launched an offensive in the troubled eastern province of Nord-Kivu, rebels were gaining back ground.

Loyalists of renegade ex-general Laurent Nkunda said they had retaken several positions, including Mushake and Karuba, strategic villages west of the provincial capital Goma only recently under government control.

"We have just retaken Karuba this afternoon. We have seized arms and munitions. We are also holding Mushake," rebel spokesman Seraphin Mirindi told AFP.

A spokeswoman for the UN mission in DR Congo (MONUC), Sylvie van den Wildenberg, confirmed the rebels had taken Mushake, which the army had only gained control of five days previously.

"We also have had information of an attack by Nkunda troops on Karuba," a village the army had taken from the rebels in October, she told AFP.

Army commanders could not be reached for comment.

The rebel advances mark a reversal for the army that appeared to be consolidating its positions in Nord-Kivu just a few hours before the rebel counter-attack, UN and army sources said.

Norfolk
12-11-2007, 03:37 PM
Government troops who took rebel territory are being driven out again !

That's kind of got a ring of optimism :wry:

Rebels gain ground in DR Congo clashes (http://www.monuc.org/news.aspx?newsID=16257)

Doesn't it.:wry: But then, Kinshasa is a little ways down the road (or the river) from Kivu.

If 25,000 Government troops couldn't beat 4,000 rebel troops when they were fresh and before their morale had taken a hard thrashing, how can they expect to do so now. The incompetence of the Congolese Army is sadly of nearly legendary proportions; conversely, Tutsi-base Armies in the region have established reputations of something like real competence, at times anyway.

Stan
12-11-2007, 05:10 PM
Hey Norfolk !


Doesn't it.:wry: But then, Kinshasa is a little ways down the road (or the river) from Kivu.

Indeed, K-Town is a ways from Northern Kivu. The (then) Zairian government operated in much the same manner however. After spending more than a decade teaching, working and reporting on them, I can safely say little has changed (other than the name of the country). As Nichols often says: You can take the man out of WAWA, but you can't take the WAWA out of the man. Well Said !


If 25,000 Government troops couldn't beat 4,000 rebel troops when they were fresh and before their morale had taken a hard thrashing, how can they expect to do so now. The incompetence of the Congolese Army is sadly of nearly legendary proportions; conversely, Tutsi-base Armies in the region have established reputations of something like real competence, at times anyway.

I have some real doubts about those numbers - just a gut feeling though.
I'd conclude that Nkunda has more than 6 or 7,000 (if not more standing at the ready 'somewhere else') and I sincerely doubt that the DRC ever sent more than 2 or 3,000 at any given time, anywhere.

Tom can cut in anytime with his appraisals that I most welcome, but we've watched those folks try to swindle barely a company of troops into an aircraft to 'asylum', and that had some very intriguing moments on the flight home !

The only time I ever witnessed 'military movement' was with the DSP or Guard Civil in the early 90's. All those maneuvers accomplished was a shift in area control, and then back to the artful task of screwin' folks out of whatever they happen to have.

If you get a chance, give Tom's chapter (http://smallwarsjournal.com/documents/swjmag/v3/odom_journey.htm) a quick read.

Regards, Stan

Tom Odom
12-11-2007, 05:58 PM
I just always looked at FAZ (now DRC) numbers as pure fog. In all my study of the Congolese military going back to colonial days, I never really found an instant where a Conglese unit --without some form of dramatic stiffening--ever took on an armed combatant and even stayed to fight, much less won.

Now if there was rape and loot to be had against an unarmed foe, then by all means the ANC/FAZ/whatever was clearly eager. Hell they would fight each other for the opportunity.

Best

Tom

Stan
12-11-2007, 07:36 PM
UN Integrated Regional Information Networks

11 December 2007, Kinshasa (http://allafrica.com/stories/200712110864.html)


Troops loyal to dissident general Laurent Nkunda in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) have regained control of the town of Mushake in the eastern North Kivu province, which they had lost to government forces less than a week earlier, military sources said.

UN-supported Radio Okapi quoted the deputy commander of government troops in North Kivu, Colonel Delphin Kahimbi, as admitting the army had suffered some setbacks.

The UN Mission in DRC, MONUC, was more specific, with Major Prem Kumar Tiwari, MONUC's spokesman in Goma, North Kivu's capital, saying: "Nkunda's troops have taken up positions around Mushake and Mushake itself. The regular army is no longer present there."

Tom Odom
12-11-2007, 07:45 PM
The UN Mission in DRC, MONUC, was more specific, with Major Prem Kumar Tiwari, MONUC's spokesman in Goma, North Kivu's capital, saying: "Nkunda's troops have taken up positions around Mushake and Mushake itself. The regular army is no longer present there."

Yup, there you go. They beat feet in proud Congo fashion.

Stan
12-11-2007, 07:53 PM
Yup, there you go. They beat feet in proud Congo fashion.


The regular army is no longer present there

So, Tom, where did the 25,000 troops go...:rolleyes:

Tom Odom
12-11-2007, 08:17 PM
So, Tom, where did the 25,000 troops go...:rolleyes:

You mean the list of 25,000 troops don't you? You know the ones the generals use to draw payroll with? :wry:

Stan
12-11-2007, 08:31 PM
Take a quick gander at this lesson plan (http://www.ncpublicschools.org/docs/curriculum/socialstudies/middlegrades/africa/drclesson4africasfirstworldwar.pdf) :eek:


Teacher Input
• Provide an interactive lecture with images regarding Mobutu Sese Seko’s corrupt rule from 1965-1997 and the First African World War conditions in 2000. Use images from the Resources section to help students visualize the conflict and the countries participating. The New York Times lesson plan contains excellent maps. Images can be shared via an LCD projector, an Aver Key connection from your computer to a classroom television, or by overhead transparencies.
Key Questions:
• What are the main causes of the African World War?
• How have the DRC’s natural resources and ethnic conflicts played a part in this war?
• Why did a civil war in one country turn into a “world war” involving several nations?

BTW, yes, the 25,000 I was wonderin' about (on payroll) :D

EDIT: Get's better at Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_Extraction_in_the_Democratic_Republic_of_ Congo)


# 2.1 Mass Scale Looting
# 2.2 Active Extraction Phase :cool:

Norfolk
12-11-2007, 08:41 PM
Hey Norfolk !

Indeed, K-Town is a ways from Northern Kivu. The (then) Zairian government operated in much the same manner however. After spending more than a decade teaching, working and reporting on them, I can safely say little has changed (other than the name of the country). As Nichols often says: You can take the man out of WAWA, but you can't take the WAWA out of the man. Well Said !

I have some real doubts about those numbers - just a gut feeling though.
I'd conclude that Nkunda has more than 6 or 7,000 (if not more standing at the ready 'somewhere else') and I sincerely doubt that the DRC ever sent more than 2 or 3,000 at any given time, anywhere.

Tom can cut in anytime with his appraisals that I most welcome, but we've watched those folks try to swindle barely a company of troops into an aircraft to 'asylum', and that had some very intriguing moments on the flight home !

The only time I ever witnessed 'military movement' was with the DSP or Guard Civil in the early 90's. All those maneuvers accomplished was a shift in area control, and then back to the artful task of screwin' folks out of whatever they happen to have.

If you get a chance, give Tom's chapter (http://smallwarsjournal.com/documents/swjmag/v3/odom_journey.htm) a quick read.

Regards, Stan

Thanks Stan, I got it.:) At this rate, I'm going to have a "Thomas P. Odom" shelf for books and articles.

Is it physically impossible for the DRC (not to mention some others in the region) to raise fighting forces that actually can and will fight (and win) aginst competent/semi-competent opponents, or is this pretty much a Tutsi monopoly in those parts?

Stan
12-11-2007, 08:55 PM
The quick and pathetic answer is no. They have no hope or clue and leadership at the government level is worthless.

Take a few steps back however to late 89: The Israelis were funding and training the DSP (Special Presidential Division); the Egyptians were funding and training the Civil Guard; and the US was funding, doing, and attempting to train the Zairian Air Force and keeping their 130s flying. We were up to other great things then as well.

After the 2nd civil war, things went decidedly off-course and most of us left (evacuated is a better term…save military personnel.
Tom did some great reporting back then regarding ‘ghost soldiers’ used primarily for flag officers to obtain higher monthly figures. Long story...

Tom, your turn !

ancien
12-11-2007, 08:59 PM
later on the 'mixed brigades' got formed. As proven that became a fiasco.

grtz

Tom Odom
12-11-2007, 09:07 PM
Thanks Stan, I got it.:) At this rate, I'm going to have a "Thomas P. Odom" shelf for books and articles.

Is it physically impossible for the DRC (not to mention some others in the region) to raise fighting forces that actually can and will fight (and win) aginst competent/semi-competent opponents, or is this pretty much a Tutsi monopoly in those parts?

I would have to say it is "culturally impossible" in the Congo--or so that has proven to be the case in the past 50 years. I say that because as soon as anyone emerges in the Congolese culture as a potential leader the forces of corruption set in; the closest thing to an exception to this rule were two officers in the FAZ. One was Leonard Mulembe and he was an excellent LTC in the 1960s Simba troubles, a fact reported on by DV Rattan and Mike Hoyt. The other Major and later GEN Mahale whose unit jumped at Kolwezi at Mobutu's orders; Mahele did not jump but did link up with the survivors of the abortive airborne op. Mahele later became FAZ Cheif of Staff only to be cashiered after the 1991 pillage when he went out on the street and started shooting FAZ soldiers. He was out of favor when I was there; i used to feed his aide de camp every Saturady morning. Mahele was not perfect; Stan can fill in more about him. But Mahele was shot out of hand in 1997 when he told Nzimbi and the other surviving favorites of Mobutu that they should surrender rather than risk slaughter in defending Kinshasa. Of course, they did NOT defend Kinshasa.

On the Tutsi angle, it really depends on which area or country you are talking. The Tutsi Burundian Army was/is as corrupt and cruel as was the Ex-FAR when it controlled Rwanda. My Rwandan contacts in the RPA were all Ugandan-raised English speaking Tutsi with a Hutu. To a man they did not trust the Burundian military and they did not like the Rwandan Tutsi who had been in Burundi in the RPA. They considered them corrupt and unreliable. They had greater problems with them retaliating against the Hutu Rwandans. Sharyar Khan as SRSG of UNAMIR 2 wrote a great book on his experiences and he comments on this as well.

As for the "Ugandan" Rwandan Tutsis who made up the core of the RPA, remember some of them had marched from Tanzania to help overthrow Amin. Then they had joined Museveni in the bush to defeat Obote. I have not been around the RPA in 11 years now but 10 years ago I would have put an RPA brigade against any other similar unit on the continent and many others elsewhere. The trick was in their leadership and discipline.

Best

Tom

ancien
12-11-2007, 09:29 PM
good point. Regarding the culture in DRC. There are over 200 tribes. Even if a person is highy edjucated, he still has to conduct according tribal rules. This is the result of the mobutu regime. The hiearchy of tribes. If a person got apointed as a manager for a state owned company (example GECAMINES). Then he came financily responsible for his tribe. Corruption is eventualy flowring. The same for the FAZ, mobutu was a paranoid person. If a military leader created succes, he started to get afraid for a coup etat. He alsow stationed soldiers out of the rigeon of there tribe, so they started to misbehave to the people where they where stationed.

grtz

Norfolk
12-11-2007, 09:44 PM
Thanks Tom. I'd read a little about the origins of the RPA within the Ugandan Army and the roles of Musevemi and Kagame. I've never been very clear on Tanzania, although I seem to recall that Kagame spent a little time there as well - I may be confused or mistaken about that though.

I have to admit from what I've been able to read so far about the formation, training, and operations of the RPF/RPA, to about equals parts admiration and shock.

ancien:

You were in the Para-Commandos, n'est pas? Did you ever encounter COL Luc Marchal?

Stan
12-11-2007, 09:49 PM
good point. Regarding the culture in DRC. There are over 200 tribes. Even if a person is highy edjucated, he still has to conduct according tribal rules. This is the result of the mobutu regime. The hiearchy of tribes. If a person got apointed as a manager for a state owned company (example GECAMINES). Then he came financily responsible for his tribe. Corruption is eventualy flowring. The same for the FAZ, mobutu was a paranoid person. If a military leader created succes, he started to get afraid for a coup etat. He alsow stationed soldiers out of the rigeon of there tribe, so they started to misbehave to the people where they where stationed.

grtz

Hello Ancien !
While I fully agree with you regarding Zairian tribes and rituals, I'd like to point out that Gecamines was little more than Mobutu's little cash cow.

Gecamines was pumping more than 400 thousand metric tons of copper prior to the uprisings, and with that, life was good for any of the employees in Katanga. While most of the world saw Zairian soldiers rioting, looting, etc., the Embassy saw things in a better light as influence over the copper market being directly affected by continued violence. Zaire was perhaps the 4th largest exporter and most felt President Mobutu actually (for the first or second time) really understood what he was doing.

15 years later, I remain very sceptical about that...not sure exactly why ;)

ancien
12-11-2007, 10:00 PM
Thanks Tom. I'd read a little about the origins of the RPA within the Ugandan Army and the roles of Musevemi and Kagame. I've never been very clear on Tanzania, although I seem to recall that Kagame spent a little time there as well - I may be confused or mistaken about that though.

I have to admit from what I've been able to read so far about the formation, training, and operations of the RPF/RPA, to about equals parts admiration and shock.

ancien:

You were in the Para-Commandos, n'est pas? Did you ever encounter COL Luc Marchal?

I now col. Marchal, but not in person. He wrote a book on his rwanda ordeal, but change his vieuws 180°. He got cortmarchalled for the rwandahistory, somthing he did not diserve regarding my modest opinion.

grtz

ancien
12-11-2007, 10:14 PM
hello Stan,
The problem is that the mining resources always have been the broblem. Everybody want a piece of that. During the cold war mobutu played everybody. After the cold war it was a different story. Even politicians who where involved whith mobutu had to pick sides. Gecamines was a western compagny. When mobutu started the Zairisation in the '70 it went bad.
The state of zaire was hollow, not even the name state whordy.

grtz

Norfolk
12-11-2007, 10:37 PM
I now col. Marchal, but not in person. He wrote a book on his rwanda ordeal, but change his vieuws 180°. He got cortmarchalled for the rwandahistory, somthing he did not diserve regarding my modest opinion.

grtz

Yeah, just a shame.:(

Stan
12-12-2007, 12:31 PM
Yup, there you go. They beat feet in proud Congo fashion.

Hey Tom, although more or less just a rehash from yesterday's news, this MONUC article (http://www.monuc.org/news.aspx?newsID=16276) says it all :D


GOMA, DRCongo, 12 Decembre 2007 - The Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) army was in retreat in the face of rebel counter-attacks...
...as witnesses described roads packed with fleeing troops.

Residents of Nord-Kivu province, near the eastern border with Rwanda, described columns of terrified civilians and disorganised troops heading south from rebel forces...

Defence Minister Diemu Chikez said however the retreat was an effort to "regroup"

"The insurgents launched a surprise attack. We pulled back and they retook Mushake and Karuba...

The army is reorganising...

Residents of the war-ravaged region said the retreat looked disorganised.

"We don’t understand what’s happening. Soldiers of the 14th Brigade (which captured Mushake last week) were fleeing towards Sake, Bweremana and Minova. It was a total rout," said Sake resident David Maheshe.

Tom Odom
12-12-2007, 01:01 PM
Well they always made our job easier when it came to predicting what they would do:

Unarmed civilians as opposition: attack, rape, steal, kill

Armed opposition: remove mirror shades, look real mean, put shades back on, then run


Hey Tom, although more or less just a rehash from yesterday's news, this MONUC article (http://www.monuc.org/news.aspx?newsID=16276) says it all :D

Stan
12-14-2007, 11:27 AM
A round up from MONUC (http://www.monuc.org/Home.aspx?lang=en)


At its weekly press conference of 12 December 2007, MONUC announced that more than 4,500 blue helmets have been deployed in North Kivu province, to ensure the defence of the towns of Goma and Sake. Furthermore, blue helmets will maintain their presence in Mushake to protect displaced populations in Kilolirwe, Kitchanga and Kanyabayonga.




"There are some firings since this morning between the (army) and Nkunda's troops led by Colonel Makenga in Gungu heights," near the key town of Goma, said Major Prem Tiwari, the UN mission's military spokesman in Nord-Kivu province.

Since this week, Nkunda's fighters have taken back all the positions they held three months ago, when fighting started with the Congolese armed forces (FARDC) in the Democratic Republic Congo's powder region of Nord-Kivu.

NYTimes: After Clashes, Fear of War on Congo’s Edge (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/13/world/africa/13congo.html?_r=1&em&oref=slogin)


A major confrontation between the Congolese Army and a renegade general is plunging the country back toward war, threatening to undermine the fledgling democratic state and set off a new regional conflict on a scale not seen here in years.

...General Nkunda's advance here was just barely staved off by United Nations peacekeepers, who swept in late Tuesday to occupy the town as the Congolese Army fled.

After years of being overlooked in favor of crises in Darfur, Somalia and elsewhere, Congo has again sprung to the top of American and European agendas on Africa. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice met last week with leaders of the region, with a considerable focus on Congo, and another high-level meeting of diplomats is set for this weekend.

The recent fighting has unleashed a catastrophe of a proportion that is outsize even for Congo, where some researchers say four million people have died, mainly of disease and hunger, since the civil war began in 1996.

Rex Brynen
12-26-2007, 05:22 AM
This may have been posted somewhere before, but in case it hasn't been: Soldier of Africa (http://rsasoldier.blogspot.com/), the blog of Major Werner Klokow of the 6th (air assault) battalion, SANDF, recently currently deployed with his company in DRC as part of MONUC. (As you'll see from the earlier entries, he previously served with the AU force in Darfur).

Not a great deal of detail (so far), but its rare to see a blog from this mission (or any other African PKO).

Stan
12-26-2007, 10:18 AM
Thanks, Rex !
He's got some interesting entries and great photos (http://www.flickr.com/photos/rsasoldier/). In a couple of weeks, he'll no doubt have better details and posts on the DRC. Worth keeping an eye on.

Regards, Stan


This may have been posted somewhere before, but in case it hasn't been: Soldier of Africa (http://rsasoldier.blogspot.com/), the blog of Major Werner Klokow of the 6th (air assault) battalion, SANDF, recently currently deployed with his company in DRC as part of MONUC. (As you'll see from the earlier entries, he previously served with the AU force in Darfur).

Not a great deal of detail (so far), but its rare to see a blog from this mission (or any other African PKO).

Stan
12-26-2007, 07:18 PM
The East African reports (http://www.nationmedia.com/eastafrican/current/News/news241220079.htm) Nkunda still using child soldiers in Kivu


Insurgents loyal to dissident Gen Laurent Nkunda are still recruiting children into their ranks.

The main perpetrators of human- rights abuses are no longer armed groups [non-government forces], but mainly agents of the state, whose mandate is to ensure the protection of the Congolese population...

“Forced recruitment [of children] takes place outside schools; in the village of Burungu, tudents returned to their homes were rounded up, causing many to flee into the bush,” said Kemal Saiki, Monuc’s spokesman.

In some cases, demobilised, underage former fighters are being re-recruited, according to the spokesman, who cited the case of 20 children who had rejoined Gen Nkunda’s ranks in the North Kivu village of Kirambu.

More at the link...

Stan
12-28-2007, 08:01 PM
The Rwandan News Agency reports (http://www.ari-rna.co.rw/)...DR Congo dissident Gen. Laurent Nkunda has dismissed accusations by the UN Mission in the country (MONUC) that he has been forcefully recruiting children into his forces.


We are scandalized by the denigrations and other untrue charges against the CNDP (Nkunda's party) on behalf of the MONUC which argued the recruitment of 200 students from the secondary school of Tongo

General Nkunda forces are also alleging that government forces - the FARDC - have been arbitrarily arresting 'innocent Congolese civilians because of their membership of an ethnic group' - in apparent reference to Tutsi civilians.

Nine people of Tutsi ethnic group were arrested months ago in Bunagana and transferred to the Makala Prison on December 9, 2007 without being judged nor heard, Nkunda alleges.

According to him, the organization has information suggesting that more than 31 people arrested at Kibumba in North-Kivu and are illegally jailed in prisons and dungeons in Kinshasa. We will forward to you the names of the prisoners the coming days, the statement to RNA said.

More at the link...

Stan
12-31-2007, 08:58 AM
GOMA, Congo (AP) (http://www.monuc.org/news.aspx?newsID=16376)— Hundreds of officials descended on this eastern outpost Thursday to begin preparations for upcoming peace talks even as fighting continued in the tangled forests of eastern Congo.


Missing from the gathering was the warlord Laurent Nkunda, whose rebellion is at the heart of the spiraling conflict.

In a telephone interview with The Associated Press, his second-in-command said Nkunda had not yet been invited to the peace conference, which is scheduled to begin in Goma on Jan. 6.

"If we receive the invitation, we will be there — no trouble. We are here for peace and not for war," said Bwambale Kakolele, the rebel leader's military commander.

But he said the government was continuing to attack Nkunda's positions as officials rolled into this provincial capital to discuss peace.

"Even this morning these people ... have attacked our troops in Rugari," Kakolele said. "We do not understand."

Nkunda must have missed something thinking 'prep for peace talks' translates into a ceasefire :wry:

GOMA, Congo (Reuters) (http://www.monuc.org/news.aspx?newsID=16377) - Congo's authorities have postponed until January 6 a peace conference aimed at ending conflict in the east...


...officials said the conference in the North Kivu provincial capital Goma would now begin in earnest on January 6 to allow more time for preparation and for invitations to be sent to participants, including rebel Tutsi General Laurent Nkunda.

President Joseph Kabila is under pressure from the United Nations and the United States to find a political solution to end years of fighting in the Kivus involving government troops, Tutsi insurgents, Rwandan Hutu rebels and Mai Mai militia.

Stan
01-03-2008, 12:21 PM
Goma (http://www.monuc.org/Home.aspx?lang=en) - Monuc Supporting the FARDC for Peace Conference Security


...DRC Armed Forces (FARDC) battalions were transported by helicopter in the past week to North-Kivu to ensure the security of the Goma peace conference, envisaged for 6 January. The mission also supplied isolated FARDC units, and those wounded were evacuated to Goma.
One Nkunda colonel surrendered at Kitchanga mobile operational base with his wife, who has the rank of major, and all were sent to brassage on 26 December.

Sensitising and monitoring efforts continue to target the residual armed groups, whose 25 members have already been identified in Kwandroma.

...South Kivu, in order to improve the security of the population and to aid humanitarian support for those displaced, joint FARDC-MONUC patrols were intensified, and meetings are regularly held with the local authorities.

In parallel, the negotiations are very advanced to transport the Mayi-Mayi of the Zaboloni faction to brassage.

More at the link

Stan
01-04-2008, 10:16 AM
Most rape victims say their attackers were armed groups of rebels or government soldiers.


GOMA, Congo, Jan 3 (Reuters) (http://www.monuc.org/news.aspx?newsID=16392) - Intense fighting between government and militia forces in eastern Congo has led to a surge in rape by fighters from all sides, women and doctors say.

Renewed hostilities between the army and troops loyal to renegade Tutsi General Laurent Nkunda have stoked a volatile crucible of violence in Congo's North Kivu province, where traditional Mai Mai fighters and Rwandan Hutu militia also roam.

Sexual violence has escalated as hundreds of thousands of people have been forced to flee the safety of their homes -- around 400,000 people since August, when Nkunda quit a peace deal, bringing North Kivu's displaced population to 800,000.

Congo's government has called a peace summit for Sunday, but there is little optimism the chronic fighting will end soon.

Penta
01-04-2008, 07:11 PM
Most rape victims say their attackers were armed groups of rebels or government soldiers.

Stan, Tom, someone...explain this to me.

In virtually every society I've heard of, rape is regarded as among the worst of crimes.

Yet, in Africa, it seems to be almost a regular feature of the landscape, passively accepted by the populace.

...WTF?:confused:

Stan
01-04-2008, 11:44 PM
Stan, Tom, someone...explain this to me.

In virtually every society I've heard of, rape is regarded as among the worst of crimes.

Yet, in Africa, it seems to be almost a regular feature of the landscape, passively accepted by the populace.

...WTF?:confused:

Hey Penta !
Jeez, even after a decade there, I don’t know where to start :rolleyes:

Tom certainly has his own versions and opinions, and a wealth of experience behind those. Anyway, here’s mine:

I can’t completely blame this on their culture; although I remain convinced it must be culturally derived. It wasn’t long ago I had the same unbelievable thoughts as I witnessed violence and rape in the city (in peace time) and wondered should this sort of behavior remain unchecked (wait, it gets better).

Fact is rape in (then) Zaire “locally speaking”, was not considered a horrific act as we in the West consider it - Zairian males (soldiers, civilians and especially government officials) never gave it another thought. Many western countries (stationed there) counted on/and supported the Zairian government, and that too often meant turning a blind eye to such instances of crimes against humanity. The Mobutu regime permitted us to keep tabs on the Angolans, Congolese, Cubans and Russians less than 2 kilometers across the river, and rarely a word was spoken about our ‘activities’ in country.

Honestly, nothing has changed other than our ‘attention’ in that part of Africa.

But let’s not blame the whole enchilada on the locals just yet. I had the pleasure of witnessing one of the most pathetic events in the early 90s when a Chicago Democrat visited (those are always marked with either success or total failure, but still very significant when funding support at the DC level comes into play). You can read about IT here (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0CE4DD1738F930A35751C0A9669582 60).

The potential victim addressed our country team the following day and was subsequently advised something to the tune of “jungle rules apply” and to leave the situation be if you care about the poor here.

In closing, nothing has changed there, other than our attention span when dealing diplomatically with difficult situations. Now that we could care less, each and every act becomes a noteworthy crime.

Damn…glad I’m retired :D

Regards, Stan

ancien
01-05-2008, 11:11 AM
In there culture they have different vieuwes about sexuality. Even Mobutu maked it a sport to try to concor the harts of the wifes of his ministers.
So, its like Stan say, nobody cared.
When it comes to sexual violance during wartime, the story change a bit, because the tribal bondary is gone and the increasing of that type of violance.
At this time it has the effect that it destabilies intyre communities, so there is a international reaction concerning sexual violance.
So from one day of not caring they go to the next day concidering it a war crime.

grtz

Rex Brynen
01-05-2008, 02:57 PM
Fact is rape in (then) Zaire “locally speaking”, was not considered a horrific act as we in the West consider it - Zairian males (soldiers, civilians and especially government officials) never gave it another thought.

As I think Stan implictly points out here, Zairian/Congolese males may not have thought it a horrific crime. What women thought didn't really enter into it--in a society where they were both disempowered and had no recourse, they could do little but to (try to) go on with their lives.

Nevertheless, we know from programs that deal with survivors of gender-based violence in Africa that the effects, even if less spoken of, are usually traumatic, psychologically, socially, and often medically.

I might draw a parallel with slavery. As we know, many slaves--in the face of conditions that gave them no ability to change their condition--endured slavery as part of their "natural condition," to be dealt with as best they could. It made it no less horrific, no less unwanted by its victims, no less a moral crime, and (practiced on a large scale) no less of a crime against humanity.

Some useful resources on GBV in conflict settings can be found here (http://www.rhrc.org/resources/index.cfm?sector=gbv). See also UNHCR's Sexual and Gender-Based Violence Against Refugees, Returnees and Internally Displaced Persons. Guidelines for Prevention and Response (http://www.unhcr.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/refworld/rwmain/opendocpdf.pdf?docid=3edcd0661).

Tom Odom
01-05-2008, 03:46 PM
The rape issue is very much culturally defined. First of all in this region men want sex, they get sex. In the 80s studies in Zaire showed that men had 30-40 sexual contacts a month, with ever changing partners. Women were asked and they gave it up. In a locale where veneral rates ran in the 90 percentile with an equally high sterilization rate, the only way a womand could get married was prove she could get pregnant.

Secondly what we would call child abuse is equally culturally based. A female with a menstrual cycle is considered a woman. Over the past couple of decades more insights on paternal sexual predation have added to this.

Gang rape is near traditional when it comes to conquest or vanqusihing an enemy. You defeat the men, killing them or driving them away (in the past you made them slaves) and then raping the women. What has made this epedemic of rape so horrific is its origins in Rwanda as an organized program led by a woman plus of course that AIDS makes rape a mortal assault. Some 250K women were raped in the genocide and many are still dying from it. As bad as that was the continuation of that war and its expansion into the Congo as well as merging with similar conflicts in Uganda and Burundi have made this primeval level of warfare the norm for 2 generations who have participated in it. Child soldiers schooled to kill and rape at will, hooked on drugs, and infected with HIV are not salvageable. Those who survive long enough to reach young adulthood will only create more like themselves. Even if they are salvageable, there are no programs with enough funds, assets, and willpower to impose the security necessary to do the job. That I know is not a PC statement; it is in my opinion very true.

Best

Tom

selil
01-05-2008, 04:11 PM
Tom it sounds like you are basically saying that the African continent must be figuratively "re-booted". How do you reset norms of a continent?

Norfolk
01-05-2008, 04:22 PM
Tom it sounds like you are basically saying that the African continent must be figuratively "re-booted". How do you reset norms of a continent?

Were these more or less the norms prior to European colonization; and if so did European atrocities merely aggravate an existing condition? Or are these relatively new problems in the region, and not just on the scale that they occurr?

I don't know very much about how society recovered in Eastern Europe and especially the western Soviet Union after WWII, but the closest that I can think of to what has been occurring in Central Africa, in modern times, was maybe the Thirty Years' War. In much of Central Europe, society simply broke down completely, and everyone who wasn't a soldier survived as a camp-follower. Especially the women and children. But I don't know how much, if any applicability that has to modern Central Africa.

selil
01-05-2008, 07:57 PM
Norfolk I got the impression from what Tom posted that this was a relatively new occurrence. Of course I'm likely wrong.

Norfolk
01-05-2008, 08:13 PM
Norfolk I got the impression from what Tom posted that this was a relatively new occurrence. Of course I'm likely wrong.

No, I expect that you're quite right selil. I probably just misunderstood what Tom wrote; after all, I'm a Redneck, and reedin n' ritin' are really meant for City-folk.;)

Stan
01-06-2008, 12:50 PM
Goma (http://allafrica.com/stories/200801040788.html) - U.S. Rep Chris Smith (http://chrissmith.house.gov/) launching a four-day human rights mission that will focus on combating human trafficking, child soldiers and sexual violence while at the same time underscoring US commitment to critical peace negotiations due to convene on January 7, 2008.



The US has both a humanitarian and a national security interest in helping them attain stability and security in this critical region of Africa. I’m here to reinforce American support for the peace conference and emphasize our long-term commitment to securing universal human rights as the most effective means to obtaining a genuine and lasting peace.

The US is expected to play a significant role in the January 7th conference scheduled to take place in the North Kivu provincial capital of Goma where insurgent fighting has intensified after the 2006 elections. Rebel forces as well as the government military have recently committed some of the worst human rights abuses in the world in this region of Congo. UN peacekeepers in the region have also come under fire for sexually abusing and trafficking Congolese women and young girls in 2004.

As Chairman of the Foreign Affairs Subcommittee on Africa, Global Human Rights and International Operations, Smith convened a hearing on the sex trafficking abuse issue in Congo and he remains concerned that the UN must continue to aggressively to address this abuse.

To my dismay and anger I have learned on this mission that the UN is planning on cutting back and downgrading their investigative effort to combat human trafficking by UN personnel, Smith said. That is unacceptable and I will be working to restore the anti-trafficking investigative positions here in Congo.

Tom Odom
01-06-2008, 03:22 PM
Were these more or less the norms prior to European colonization; and if so did European atrocities merely aggravate an existing condition? Or are these relatively new problems in the region, and not just on the scale that they occurr?

I would use the somewhat trite expression "A Perfect Storm" in that it combines what happened in the past with what has gone in in recent years. I have debated Adam Hochschild's thesis on the Belgian Congo as European genocide for two main reasons: one is that he uses figures that are extrapolations to make his points. I would say we simply have no good record of population densities in the area at this time. Second is the issue your question gets at: were these traits there before the Europeans came or was colonization the original sin from which all of Africa's woes emerged. Hochschild says the first; I would say that Europeans ruled by terror but they also exploited extant systems in that rule.

Rebooting is an interesting way to put it. I don't have a good answer.

Best

Tom

Stan
01-06-2008, 04:53 PM
Just how much cash is needed, since 2007's $22,631,483 still wasn't enough :confused:

Other Humanitarian Funding to Democratic Republic of Congo 2007 (http://ocha.unog.ch/fts/reports/daily/ocha_R4_A746___08010607.pdf)
Table H: List of commitments/contributions and pledges to projects not listed in the Appeal as of 06-January-2008

carl
01-07-2008, 12:53 AM
Even if they are salvageable, there are no programs with enough funds, assets, and willpower to impose the security necessary to do the job.

Boy ain't that the truth. I flew some people into a town east of Kindu once and I asked them what they were going to do there. They said they were going to teach classes on conflict resolution. That is what they wanted to spend their time and money on. I doubted the efficacy of the program.

Stan
01-07-2008, 10:40 AM
By EDDY ISANGO, Associated Press Writer


GOMA, Congo (AP) (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CONGO_PEACE_TALKS?SITE=OHCOL&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2008-01-06-22-46-01) -- One of Congo's fiercest warlords sent a delegation on Sunday to meet with members of the government on the first day of peace talks in the provincial outpost of Goma.

The delegation of 10 rebels loyal to Laurent Nkunda arrived in Goma under the guard of U.N. troops. The rebels declared a cease-fire last week.

A spokesman for the delegation said its No. 1 concern is the continued presence in Congo of the extremist Hutu militia FDLR, the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Rwanda.

Tom Odom
01-07-2008, 04:28 PM
The reality of all of this truly emerges when you grasp that what is happening today in the Congo is essentially the same thing that happened in 1960-1963 with one startling difference. In 1960 you could ride a motorcycle from Morrocco to Elizabethville (Lubumbashi) on hard ball roads. I knew a guy who did it--Charlie Laurent (RIP) who commanded 1st Para Ban in 1960 and the entire ParaCommando Regiment in 1964. The Congo had a fully functional transporation system that tied rail, rivers, and roads together. Air was a back up system. All of that is gone. If you cannot move it by air, you can't move it. Funny that the UN peacekeeping effort in the Congo is the largest on record; the previous record holder was the Congo, 1960-1963.

Good luck on teachning conflict management :wry:

Best

Tom

Stan
01-07-2008, 05:47 PM
I ran across this site - In and Out of Focus (http://africa.si.edu/exhibits/focus/official.html).

Fairly old info, but the images and text echo your post. Several short stories, such as The Tutsi Section.

Stan
01-07-2008, 07:13 PM
GOMA, Congo (AP) (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/06/world/africa/06congo.html?ref=world) — Congolese government forces summarily executed civilians and members of a politician’s private militia and used excessive force during clashes with the militia last year, according to a preliminary report by United Nations human rights investigators.


The United Nations panel had investigated clashes in Kinshasa, Congo’s capital, in March between Congolese forces and security guards of Jean-Pierre Bemba, a former warlord who was runner-up in 2006 presidential elections.

In a statement released Friday in Geneva, the United Nations human rights commissioner’s office said the government killed at least 300 people last March.

The Congo defense minister, Chikez Diemu, spoke for the government.

“There are means of dealing with such serious issues, and not through the media,” Mr. Diemu said from this far eastern city in North Kivu Province where officials were gathering for peace talks with another warlord.

Congolese officials said the clashes started when Mr. Bemba’s troops took over a part of Kinshasa. Mr. Bemba, who once controlled an army of 20,000 but had only a battalion of roughly 600 men at the time, said his men were defending him from an assassination attempt.

Penta
01-08-2008, 05:02 PM
Tom it sounds like you are basically saying that the African continent must be figuratively "re-booted". How do you reset norms of a continent?

I'm not sure how much you can.

Thinking the Unthinkable:

1. AIDS, and the fact that we're likely to have much of a generation that are orphans (perhaps from birth) as a result of AIDS in a fair number of African countries...

Well, let's think the unthinkable.

You have a large proportion of people who are orphans. Who have few family ties, hence little of what ties people in to a culture, what socializes them, etc.

Disregarding, for right now, financial and logistical hurdles...

Why not borrow a page from the "Indian Schools" of the 19th and early 20th centuries?

Take those kids (optimally between the ages of 5-8) from their home regions, put them in year-round boarding schools/refugee camps. With food, medical care, education, etc etc. all provided by the foreign nationals running the place.

They're given good educations, etc., yes. But they're also mixed together, regardless of tribal/national origin. Where they have no common language? So be it; the school will have a language of instruction that will probably become a lingua franca.

Primary and secondary ed provided in these camps. Then, they're released to a place (in Africa) of their choosing when they're of age.

In some sense, this may be genocide. However, with such a massive orphan population, it's a question whether the culture itself would not have died off.

Like I said, there are logistical and financial hurdles to this.

But, well...Why not?

*clambers into the asbestos-lined suit*

Norfolk
01-08-2008, 05:47 PM
It's certainly the best (or least-worst) option that I've heard of. As to how practical it is, well...:wry: But nevertheless, the best so far.

tequila
01-08-2008, 06:08 PM
No offense, but I have to say that sounds like an extraordinarily terrible idea. The Indian schools in both Canada and the U.S. were generally underfunded and ignored educational failures, rife with sexual abuse. There is little evidence that the student population of those schools somehow became any better prepared to integrate into the broader American society - the Native population in the U.S. remains at or near the bottom in terms of educational achievement and economic status.

Even if your idea came into complete fruition and operated without a hitch with lavish funding and support, and complete political support from the home countries, how would a small population of orphaned children with decent primary school educations "reboot" an entire continent?

Perhaps one of the steps we could take when addressing African problems is paying them the same respect we do to other groups and actually break these things down into where the problems actually are, as opposed to assuming that an entire continent can be categorized as a single mass entity with the same issues to be solved by the same almighty foreign experts. Egypt is not Nigeria, Namibia is not the Congo. The problems of Ethiopia are not the same as those of Burundi.

Rex Brynen
01-08-2008, 06:15 PM
You have a large proportion of people who are orphans. Who have few family ties, hence little of what ties people in to a culture, what socializes them, etc.

Despite the magnitude of the AIDS crisis, extended family networks have proven remarkably resilient in providing support for the children of AIDS suffers and victims, and (appropriately, I think) the current thrust is to empower current care givers with individual and community resources--not to rip children away from their village or other support systems.

Indeed, I think this is an essential lesson from most humanitarian and developmental work: try to build on local resources and support systems where you can, don't rip them down and try to impose an often expensive, unsustainable, poorly-suited external model.

Aboriginal residential schools in North America, were generally a disaster--having taught on a reserve, I can tell you they were regarded by those who had experienced them with hatred (not too strong a word.. if anything, it understates the legacies of abuse, cultural paternalism, and alienation).

There is a good overview of the issue here (http://www.avert.org/aidsorphans.htm):


In the early days of the AIDS orphan crisis, there was a rush by well meaning non-governmental organisations to build orphanages. Given the scale of the problem, though, this response was unsustainable, as the cost of maintaining a child in such an institution is much greater than other forms of care. Most people now believe that orphans should be cared for in family units through extended family networks, foster families and adoption, and that siblings should not be separated. Studies in Sub-Saharan Africa have repeatedly demonstrated that growing up in a family environment is more beneficial to a child than institutional care, which should be considered a temporary option or a last resort.

Penta
01-08-2008, 06:30 PM
@Tequila: That's the kind of reaction I like.:)

It was specifically filed under 'thinking the unthinkable' because it's an extreme idea - it could either work really well or really, amazingly badly.

It's also the kind of grand plan that government likes.

The reality is that for the policymaker, from what I can see, Africa seems to be too big. Too varied.

You're right: The responses should be implemented and tailored to each country, each situation.

But that's not how governments (and, to an extent, NGOs) work.

A bunch of little funding lines, each program tailored to the target, is a lot easier to kill, a lot harder to make look "efficient" and "economical", then one big program that treats "all those black people in huts" the same whether they're in South Africa or Somalia, Ethiopia or Equatorial Guinea.

Finally, let's be -brutally- realistic:

1. 99% of America, or most any Western country, will never, ever give a flying #### about Africa beyond platitudes. Ever. It was written off before I was born.

2. Any moron can make a case why European affairs are something for the American policymaker to care about. Middle East and most of Asia, too.

Africa? No. The case for any notice to be paid is hard to make - mostly it's moral and humanitarian, and those cases only last until the next "puppydog eyes" moment arrives in some other part of the world.

3. If Africa were to experience Black Death levels of rapid death - 1/3 or more of the population dying rapidly, let's say 1/2 - does anyone think such a story would ever make it to the front of the world's attention for very long? Does anyone think it would prompt sustained, coordinated action of the type actually needed to make Sub-Saharan Africa something more than convenient shorthand for "hellhole", into (say) something people might consider poor but not hopeless?

I don't.

The idea I put out there was a bad idea in a lot of ways. However, I'm not sure there are any -good- ideas to be had.

Stan
01-08-2008, 06:32 PM
We don’t have to travel farther than the 70’s in D.C. with forced integration in schools to understand this is not the right answer. This cookie cutter approach to making folks better off and get along didn’t work in DC and certainly won’t make it in Sub-Sahara. We’re not going to change generations of culture with a few slices of white bread, bowl of pea soup and an education.

EDIT:




3. If Africa were to experience Black Death levels of rapid death - 1/3 or more of the population dying rapidly, let's say 1/2 - does anyone think such a story would ever make it to the front of the world's attention for very long?

We already did that. 800,000 to 1 million in 40 days. Ghastly comes to mind, but little more attention than previously noted.

Penta
01-08-2008, 06:37 PM
Despite the magnitude of the AIDS crisis, extended family networks have proven remarkably resilient in providing support for the children of AIDS suffers and victims, and (appropriately, I think) the current thrust is to empower current care givers with individual and community resources--not to rip children away from their village or other support systems.

I take your point. Yes, my previous post was harsh - however, the reality is that while these efforts seem to do well on individual levels, I'm not sure they enact the kind of sweeping, societal-level change that seems necessary for things to go from "crisis to crisis" to where Africa as a continent isn't written off.

I don't think we'll ever see Africa as a rich continent, but I do think most would be happy if it were sort of middling, not constantly at the bottom of the list.

Norfolk
01-08-2008, 07:29 PM
I have to admit, that as far as orphans went, Penta's proposal sounded pretty reasonable on the face of things. And that's how I understood it as differing from the residential school system in Canada, where children were taken by the Government from their own families. But as Stan points out, there are still extended family in place to care for orphans, and that indeed starkly underlines Tequila's and Rex's citations of the disastrous consequences of such an approach. That leaves me fresh out of ideas.

Stan
01-08-2008, 08:09 PM
Hmmm, we actually got the rebels to attend (I seriously doubted they would), and the president backs out. What signal does that now send ?


A roundtable Conference on Peace, Security and Development in the Kivus opened on Sunday at Université Libre des pays des Grands Lacs in Goma without the presence of DR Congo President Joseph Kabila. (http://allafrica.com/stories/200801080087.html)

Being the prominent authority that initiated the conference, Kabila had been expected to attend Sunday's opening, at least to highlight the importance he accorded to it, but he surprisingly pulled out at the last minute. President Kabila's failure to attend has been interpreted by analysts as a sign that nothing tangible will come out of the ongoing conference.

More at the link...

selil
01-08-2008, 08:29 PM
Aboriginal residential schools in North America, were generally a disaster--having taught on a reserve, I can tell you they were regarded by those who had experienced them with hatred (not too strong a word.. if anything, it understates the legacies of abuse, cultural paternalism, and alienation).


Having been a police officer on an Indian reservation "hatred" is not strong enough to describe the thoughts of those "schools". At to the postulated idea I'm not sure it wouldn't become rife with issues quickly.

Penta
01-08-2008, 09:05 PM
Oh, it probably would. There are a number I can pose - not the least of which being that unless you did it for every one of the millions of orphans (logistically impossible), you create kids who weren't socialized in society, and have nothing tying them to anyone. Anomie aplenty.

I never did say it would be a good idea...But that it was an idea.

I'm not sure any good ideas exist - I fully suspect that even having these kids being raised by relatives leaves them battered and broken as a result of that. (For instance, if they aren't fully accepted by their caretakers.)

However, tribalism was noted as an issue for Africa, as were AIDS orphans.

To me, that bad-idea-upon-further-examination...Did provide a potential solution. The problem, of course, is one of scale, and the human capacity to turn even the best-intentioned program to evil ends.

Something that would provide abundant opportunities for.

ancien
01-09-2008, 12:14 AM
I Have no experience about the Indian schools, but there was a program in the 50's in the Britisch colonies. At that time it was very revolutionary. The colonies where about landownership, governance, economics and segregationlaws. That program conciderded schooling, governance and multicultural livingconditions between africans, europeans and asians. Because of the sociale revolution true Africa the project stoped and only a schoolingproject for africans in the UK is still active today.
That man whas col. David Stirling. ;)

grtz

Stan
01-12-2008, 12:30 PM
This comes a barely a surprise. Why would an otherwise known criminal attend peace talks :D


...rebels suspended participation in peace talks taking place in the eastern town of Goma after one of their delegates was arrested by security officials.

Reliable sources say Major Seraphin Mirindi, the military spokesman for dissident forces loyal to General Laurent Nkunda, was arrested Wednesday afternoon outside the venue of the peace talks called by the Congolese government.

The arrest angered the CNDP delegates who immediately pulled out of the talks in protest over what they said was deliberate harassment by the Congolese government.

Wrong Man Row Leads to Rebel Talks Boycott (http://allafrica.com/stories/200801100948.html)


Insurgents have walked out of a conference aimed at restoring peace and stability to the eastern Kivu provinces after one of their number was mistaken for a fugitive assassin of the late president Laurent Kabila and briefly arrested.

The conference only got off the ground on 9 January, after several days' delay caused by logisitical problems and rows over exactly who was entitled to attend.

"We have temporarily suspended our participation in this conference because we want official safety guarantees," head of the rebel delegation Kambasu Ngeve told IRIN.

Stan
01-19-2008, 09:54 AM
18 January 2008 – Delegates at the United Nations (http://www0.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=25340&Cr=Democratic&Cr1=Congo)


...backed conference have discussed the possibility of amnesty for certain belligerents, including dissident General Laurent Nkunda.

Participants also discussed the integration of Nkunda fighters into the brassage process, whereby ex-combatants from armed groups are retrained to form part of the national armed forces of the DRC (FARDC), as well as the need to respond to refugee concerns.

The conference is scheduled to conclude on 21 January.

Meanwhile, the UN Mission in the DRC, known as MONUC, reports that two days of violent clashes in Bunia between Government troops and the Ituri Patriotic Resistance Front militia has left two soldiers dead and another two wounded, while seven militiamen were captured.

Stan
01-21-2008, 05:06 PM
KINSHASA, Jan 21 (Reuters) (http://www.monuc.org/news.aspx?newsID=16502) - Democratic Republic of Congo's government and warring rebel and militia factions will sign a deal on Tuesday to end fighting in the country's conflict-torn east...


The agreement, which will include a ceasefire, was announced following more than two weeks of talks in Goma, capital of eastern North Kivu province, that brought together government officials, local leaders and rival armed factions.

"(A ceasefire) will be signed tomorrow at the closing ceremony," Vital Kamerhe, spokesman for the peace conference and head of Congo's lower house of parliament, told Reuters.

Under the deal to be signed, an immediate permanent ceasefire would be established between the government, the Mai Mai and Nkunda, diplomats and observers at the talks said.

Nkunda's fighters would pull back from advanced positions in North Kivu, many of which they have held since the failure of a government offensive in December. This would create space for a buffer zone to be patrolled by United Nations peacekeepers.

A technical commission would then be established to oversee the disarmament of the Nkunda rebels and Mai Mai fighters and their integration into the national army, or demobilisation.

The government would, in turn, promise to create a law granting amnesty to the Mai Mai and Nkunda rebels covering "insurgency and acts of war".

Stan
01-24-2008, 08:28 AM
UN News, 23 January 2008 (http://www0.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=25384&Cr=drc&Cr1=) – Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon hailed the agreement reached today between the Government of the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC) and armed groups in the country’s war-torn east...


Mr. Ban said in a statement (http://www.un.org/apps/sg/sgstats.asp?nid=2965) issued by his spokesperson that he “is very encouraged by the commitment of the armed groups of North and South Kivu to end all hostilities” reflected in the ‘Actes d’engagement’ signed by these groups and the Government.


In a related development, the UN Development Programme (http://allafrica.com/stories/200801231092.html) (UNDP) and the Government of the DRC will soon sign an agreement worth $390 million for a good governance project.

The initiative, to run from this year until 2012, is a UNDP-led effort to promote stable and legitimate governance, as well as economic, judicial and security sector reform.

Stan
01-25-2008, 11:55 AM
KINSHASA, Jan 25 (Reuters) (http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L25399753.htm) - Congo's government has not renewed an arrest warrant for war crimes against rebel General Laurent Nkunda and he can be given amnesty under a peace deal signed with his rebel group this week, officials said on Friday.


Doubts over the amnesty status of the renegade Tutsi general had raised fears of possible obstacles to the ceasefire pact between Democratic Republic of Congo's government and warring eastern rebel and militia factions. It was signed on Wednesday.

The accord, hailed by diplomats and analysts as the best chance in years of achieving peace offers an amnesty covering acts of war and insurgency but it does not cover war crimes, crimes against humanity or genocide.

President Joseph Kabila's government had previously said Nkunda was the subject of an arrest warrant for war crimes allegedly committed when his fighters briefly occupied the eastern city of Bukavu in 2004, when he launched his revolt.

But a member of the government delegation that helped negotiate the peace deal told Reuters this war crimes arrest warrant against Nkunda had not been renewed.

Stan
01-25-2008, 12:55 PM
The peace agreement (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7206823.stm) signed in the eastern Democratic Republic of Congo town of Goma tells it all.


Instead of just signing at the bottom of the agreement, on each and every of its 10 pages are scribbled signatures of the participants: the rebel groups, the government representative, United Nations, US and European Union.

Then there are the religious groups and civil society.

All signed up, but just how committed are they?

And is this really the end of the war in eastern DR Congo?

Rebels 'threaten DR Congo deal' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7206720.stm)


Rwandan Hutu fighters in the Democratic Republic of Congo could jeopardise the new peace pact, DR Congo's UN ambassador Atoki Ileka has admitted.

Renegade rebel Gen Laurent Nkunda, who says he has been fighting to protect DR Congo's Tutsi community, signed the agreement, dependent on them disarming.

But a Hutu rebel representative told the BBC the group would not leave DR Congo until Rwanda agreed to negotiate.

Neither the Rwandan government nor representatives of the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Rwanda (FDLR) - more commonly referred to as the Interahamwe - took part in the talks where the peace deal was negotiated.

ancien
01-26-2008, 11:29 PM
If the FDLR whould leave where whould they go to :confused:

Tom Odom
01-28-2008, 08:29 PM
If the FDLR whould leave where whould they go to :confused:

Straight down where it is always hot

And I don't mean China :D

Tom

Stan
01-28-2008, 09:49 PM
Straight down where it is always hot

And I don't mean China :D

Tom

Not so Blind....As Tom once said ;)

À bon chat, bon rat. I'm thinking they'll melt into the 'bush' and we'll see them again. Well armed and just as feisty as the day they started.

Stan
01-29-2008, 02:16 PM
Although I was fairly skeptical about this new peace deal, I would've given it a week or month before things went south :wry:


GOMA, DRCongo, Jan 28, 2008 (AFP) (http://www.monuc.org/news.aspx?newsID=16556)- The UN mission in the Democratic Republic of Congo said Monday it has sent patrols to check on reports that rival armed groups in the eastern Kivu provinces have violated a ceasefire, signed just five days ago.

"We have received information concerning fighting between different factions," including those backing renegade general Laurent Nkunda and the Mai Mai militias, said Sylvie van den Wildenberg, spokeswoman for the UN mission (MONUC) in the Nord Kivu region.

On January 23, Nkunda's group along with warring militias in Nord- and Sud-Kivu provinces and the Kinshasa government signed an "act of engagement" to cease fighting at a regional peace conference in Goma, Nord-Kivu's capital.



KINSHASA (Reuters) (http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=worldNews&storyid=2008-01-28T153854Z_01_L28130895_RTRUKOC_0_US-CONGO-DEMOCRATIC-CLASHES.xml)- Congolese Tutsi rebels and Mai Mai militia clashed on Monday in eastern Democratic Republic of Congo, breaking a ceasefire signed last week...

Tutsi fighters loyal to renegade General Laurent Nkunda and Pareco Mai Mai militia, who both signed a peace accord on Wednesday, blamed each other for the fighting around villages 70 km (44 miles) west of the town of Goma.

No details of casualties were immediately available and the U.N. peacekeeping mission in Congo said it could not confirm who had attacked first.

The latest fighting broke out near the villages of Lusirandaka and Kasake at dawn on Monday.

"This is a serious violation of the ceasefire that we've just signed," Seraphin Mirindi, a military spokesman for Nkunda, told Reuters.

Jedburgh
01-30-2008, 08:18 PM
USIP, 29 Jan 08: Elections in the DRC: The Bemba Surprise (http://www.usip.org/pubs/specialreports/sr200.pdf)

Summary

• The surprising showing of Jean-Pierre Bemba in the 2006 presidential elections in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) has its roots in the histories of both the candidate and his party in the conflict in the DRC.

• However, the space for opposition politics in the DRC is rapidly closing. With weak political institutions in place, the government increasingly relies on strong-handedness at home even as it is looking abroad for financing and infrastructure Development.

• The violence in eastern DRC poses great challenges for the new government but also opportunities for external actors to support peacebuilding efforts by working multilaterally.

• Should President Joseph Kabila’s progressive weakening continue and a leadership vacuum emerge, Bemba would be a strong candidate to fill it.
Complete 16 page report at the link.

Stan
02-07-2008, 09:30 PM
Congolese authorities yesterday arrested Mathieu Ngudjolo Chui (http://allafrica.com/stories/200802070769.html), former chief of staff of the Front for National Integration (FNI), an ethnic Lendu-based militia group that committed war crimes and crimes against humanity in the Ituri district of northeastern Congo.




"Ngudjolo's arrest shows that justice will reach those who seem untouchable because of their official position," said Param-Preet Singh, counsel in Human Rights Watch's International Justice Program. "The arrest brings hope to the many victims of war crimes in Ituri that other political and military officials will be held to account."

Unlike the previous two ICC suspects who were already in Congolese detention at the time of arrest, Ngudjolo was not in custody when the ICC served its warrant. Human Rights Watch said that effective cooperation among the Congolese government, the ICC and other partners made Ngudjolo's arrest possible, and expressed hope that such cooperation would be repeated in the future.


A third former rebel commander accused (http://allafrica.com/stories/200802070644.html) of committing atrocities in the Ituri district of the northeastern Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) has been flown to the International Criminal Court (ICC) in The Hague to be tried on charges of war crimes, including murder, conscription of children and sexual enslavement, a spokesman for the tribunal said.

Col Mathieu Ngudjolo Chui, a former commander of the Fronts Nationalistes et Intégrationnistes (FNI) rebel group, whose ex-fighters were recently integrated into the national army, was on 7 February flown from Kinshasa to The Hague for trial, according to Paul Madidi, ICC's spokesman in the DRC capital.

"He is accused, among things, of having played a key role in the planning and implementation of a massacre in the village Bogoro, attacking civilians of the Hema ethnic group and recruiting children under the age of 15," said Madidi. He is also alleged to have murdered about 200 civilians and carried out arbitrary arrests.

"Ngudjolo will also be charged with the sexual enslavement of many women and girls," Madidi added.

Tom Odom
03-21-2008, 01:16 PM
The lastest security updates from the DRC. Sometimes an accidental phrase as in the title of this post says more than the entire report.


Subject: Security Sit Rep March 08/10Hi,Security forces launched an assault on the BDK headquarters in the capital of the western Bas-Congo province, Matadi, in the early afternoon on Saturday as sect members regrouped inside. Witnesses and local officials told Reuters that the BDK headquarters had been burned and by late afternoonwas occupied by police. Reports of two causalities and lots of wounded are not confirmed yet.Skirmishes were reported over the weekend in Masisi and Walikale when PARECOmilitia and FDLR rebels exchanged fire in Kashebere for not revealed reasons. Likewise, some PARECO militiamen and CNDP Nkunda forces clashed in Kalonge and denied the facts afterwards.On the northern axis, the CNDP forces are alleged to have looted three trucks heading to a border market in Bunagana this morning. Another vehicle belonging to the catholic church was looted at the same place yesterday and a mission of Care International was plundered early last week. Valuables, mobile telephones and money are always stolen from passengers at the junction to Bunagana.

and


Subject: Security Sit Rep March 08/14

A gang ambushed and killed Mr Albert Prigogine, a businessman in Goma yesterday shortly after 16h00, local time. The crime raises concerns about security of civilians in a town where such murders are often deplored, but only after sunset. To cover themselves, the murderers shot down a pedestrianfor having probably seen and identified them. The victim is the owner of Masques Hotel now turned into a UN Level III clinic.The DRC government agreed to disarm FDLR Hutu fighters from 15 March 08. Regarding the Joint Nairobi Communiqué, Mr. Alan Doss underscored the necessity of reinforcing the efforts of MONUC 'in order to dynamize again the follow-up of what both the DRC and Rwanda committed themselves to.' Voluntary repatriation rate has increased, but still less than satisfactory.MONUC has already taken steps to 'gradually reinforce its military presence'in proximity zones in coordination with the FARDC. 'Operations are already being run that target the Rastas, who operate together with the FDLR. The Security Council intends to take measures against the FDLR leaders who refuse to cooperate in implementing the Nairobi Communique' he informed. Seven villagers were killed and six wounded in a night raid at Kibaki in the Democratic Republic of Congo's eastern Nord-Kivu province, the UN Mission in DRC (MONUC) announced Thursday. MONUC troops based in nearby Rubaya heard shooting during the night and sent a patrol to Kibaki on Wednesday morning, where 'they saw the bodies of the dead and wounded,' Dietrich told a press conference in Kinshasa.

Stan
03-24-2008, 05:44 PM
Intriguing this Mr Albert Prigogine.

He's been into so many rental and lease agreements with the UN (ahem) Purchase Order Awards for Field Missions (cough) Real estate services :cool:

Tom, I'd agree...this certainly does raise concerns (at the UN). What's this rich fat cat doing roaming the streets of Goma after dark with no security detail and all that cash :wry:

2006 Purchase Order Awards (http://www.un.org/Depts/ptd/06_rental_po_field.htm)
2007 Purchase Order Awards (http://www.un.org/Depts/ptd/07_rental_po_field.htm)


The lastest security updates from the DRC. Sometimes an accidental phrase as in the title of this post says more than the entire report.

Subject: Security Sit Rep March 08/14

A gang ambushed and killed Mr Albert Prigogine, a businessman in Goma yesterday shortly after 16h00, local time. The crime raises concerns about security of civilians in a town where such murders are often deplored, but only after sunset. To cover themselves, the murderers shot down a pedestrian for having probably seen and identified them. The victim is the owner of Masques Hotel now turned into a UN Level III clinic.

Steve Blair
03-24-2008, 05:49 PM
Welcome back, stan!:D or should it be:eek:

Tom Odom
03-24-2008, 05:51 PM
Intriguing this Mr Albert Prigogine.

He's been into so many rental and lease agreements with the UN (ahem) Purchase Order Awards for Field Missions (cough) Real estate services :cool:

Tom, I'd agree...this certainly does raise concerns (at the UN). What's this rich fat cat doing roaming the streets of Goma after dark with no security detail and all that cash :wry:

2006 Purchase Order Awards (http://www.un.org/Depts/ptd/06_rental_po_field.htm)
2007 Purchase Order Awards (http://www.un.org/Depts/ptd/07_rental_po_field.htm)

Just doing the analyst's SWAG, I would offer he probably failed to pay off all the right folks.

I often wonder what happened to Salim and his company. Sam Melissi came to me in 1997 and offered me a military advisory slot on an air transport outfit to be set up in Rwanda. I said I was interested but never heard another thing.

Maybe we should have taken that all expense paid trip to Salim's wedding...:wry:

best

Tom

Stan
03-24-2008, 06:07 PM
Welcome back, stan!:D or should it be:eek:

Hey Steve ! Be careful what you wish for !


Just doing the analyst's SWAG, I would offer he probably failed to pay off all the right folks.

I often wonder what happened to Salim and his company. Sam Melissi came to me in 1997 and offered me a military advisory slot on an air transport outfit to be set up in Rwanda. I said I was interested but never heard another thing.

Maybe we should have taken that all expense paid trip to Salim's wedding...

best

Tom

Tom, I met some Swedes last week (in Sweden) that were flying DC-3s out of N'dolo in the 80s and 90s. They told me Salim and family packed up and moved home. They also told me his airframes were sold to (previous part owner) Viktor Bout :rolleyes:

Now just how many times did we use Viktor's 707 :eek:

Tom Odom
03-24-2008, 06:13 PM
Hey Steve ! Be careful what you wish for !



Tom, I met some Swedes last week (in Sweden) that were flying DC-3s out of N'dolo in the 80s and 90s. They told me Salim and family packed up and moved home. They also told me his airframes were sold to (previous part owner) Viktor Bout :rolleyes:

Now just how many times did we use Viktor's 707 :eek:

Ohh man....

Especially the BEER flight

Or our luxury soybean suite for the flight home from Goma....

Yep we should have taken that trip to Salim's wedding

Were the Swedes related to Lars??? I wish I had bought some of those Skol beer T-Shirts and a cafe umbrella. You know the Skol guy Lars used for nose art on TAZ DC3s? :cool:

be like the beginning scenes of Diehard 3 all over again....:eek:


Check out this blog on life in K-town (http://kim.uing.net/1537/home.html?b_st=75&b_d=&b_cd=20070530&b_m=0&b_u=0&b_pi=0&b_k=136&b_s=&b_o=DESC)

Stan
03-24-2008, 06:22 PM
Ohh man....

Especially the BEER flight

Or our luxury soybean suite for the flight home from Goma....

Yep we should have taken that trip to Salim's wedding

Were the Swedes related to Lars??? I wish I had bought some of those Skol beer T-Shirts and a cafe umbrella. You know the Skol guy Lars used for nose art on TAZ DC3s? :cool:

be like the beginning scenes of Diehard 3 all over again....:eek:

For the record, there's nothing linking me to beer flights, nor weapons :)

It was in fact Lars' son Robert and his foxy looking wife. There was also a mechanic from failed C-12 "Air Excellence". Damn, talk about memory lane. Sadly, the Swedes limit 'strong' beer to 2.2 percent. There should be warning labels on this product...which has little to do with alcohol.

I have a summer meet with the same folks, where I hope to introduce them to Estonian beer (min. 4.5%) LMDAO !

Tom Odom
03-24-2008, 06:45 PM
Lars and the family business :wry:


Air Kasai (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Kasai)is an airline based in Kinshasa, Democratic Republic of the Congo. It operates charter services within Africa. Its main base is N'Dolo Airport, Kinshasa[1].

The airline is on the List of air carriers banned in the European Union.

History

The airline was established in 1983 and was formerly known as TAC - Transport Aerien Congo and TAZ - Transport Aerien Zairois. It is a Swedish owned company[1]. In March 2006 Air Kasai is officially banned from operating in the whole EU, plus Norway and Switzerland.[citation needed]


On 9 September 2005 the Antonov An-2 crashed in the DRC close to Brazzaville.[citation needed]

I wonder if that was the same An-2 we saw Lars putting the bovine bed pans in for smuggling cows into Angola? :cool:

Tom Odom
03-24-2008, 06:56 PM
Here ya go Stan from the 1942 USAAF Serial Number register (http://home.att.net/~jbaugher/1942_5.html). Some of the planes we used to fly in.....

Movie Star:

100514 (c/n 18977) to Portuguese AF as FAP 6177. To Visionair in 1976 as N9984Q, ferried to Sweden to be used in the movie "A Bridge Too FAr" with InterFret Transport Aerien as 9Q-CYC, still as 9Q-CYC to TAZ (Zaire) for Air Kasai. Now stored at Ndjili Kinshasa, Democratic Republic of Congo.

Comradeski:


108950 (c/n 13348) to USSR Jun 1944. To Polish Air Lines (LOT) as SP-LCC. Accident Mar 28, 1950, reguilt. To Iran Air as EP-AEE, to Government of Congo (Democratic Republic) as 90-AEE,then as 9Q-AEE, then to Jansson and Britzelli as9Q-CKA, to TAZ as 9Q-CKA. Presently stored at Kinshasa

Stan
03-24-2008, 07:31 PM
Tom, it's a small world. I would later fly on one of Viktor's YAK-40s here in Estonia (there were 3 in total). Until you started Viktor's thread herein, I never gave that flight another thought.

Robert had little to say about the family business, but the Belgian mechanic was eager to have his say.

Hmmm, wonder what Carl has in his memoirs ;)


Here ya go Stan from the 1942 USAAF Serial Number register (http://home.att.net/~jbaugher/1942_5.html). Some of the planes we used to fly in.....

Movie Star:


Comradeski:

PS. You were always good at tail numbers !

Stan
03-24-2008, 07:47 PM
Straight from Mobutu's hometown, Congolese police women (http://www.monuc.org/Home.aspx?lang=en) ?


Everything, or almost everything, was there: parade, round table and reflections on the status of the Congolese policewoman, various fun activities..., MONUC Civilian Police/Equateur has celebrated woman, in its own way, in the framework of Women's Month.

Subsequent to (http://www.monuc.org/News.aspx?newsID=16920) the "Launch of the national campaign against sexual violence in the DRC"


The Ministry of Gender, Family and Child, in partnership with the United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA) and members of the “Initiative Conjointe de lutte contre les violences sexuelles” (the joint initiative to fight against sexual violence) officially launched on 18 March 2008 in Kinshasa...

Worth reminding that in the DRC, if sexual violence was used as a weapon by the belligerent forces involved in the different conflicts, currently it is not limited only to men in uniform. Such violence is now also committed by people in position of authority and power, and by the rest of the population.

According to the Initiative...The frequency of sexual violence occurrences in the DRC remained high...an average of 1,100 rape cases occur each month in the 11 Congolese provinces...

Part of the cure, or a new twist to the problems at hand ?

carl
03-27-2008, 02:35 AM
When I left Kin, there were half a dozen or so DC-3/C-47's at Ndolo in various states of disrepair. They never flew while I was there, though some looked as if is wouldn't take that much to put them back into the air.

The most interesting C-47 I saw was in Goma. The ramp guys told me it used to belong to the Mobutu and the Kennedy family. All the pieces were there and the whole thing appeared to be WWII original. Almost nothing had been altered.

Air Kasai flew larger airplanes out of Njili. I think they had some connection to one of the operations at Ndolo.

Wimbi Dira was still flying a 707 freighter when I left. An Australian guy named Bruce flew it. One of our pilots was going to apply for a job with Wimbi and they told him to come out and fly a trip with them so they could see how he flew. The airplane they were going to use for the eval ride was the 707. Only in Africa.

I don't remember an AN-2 going down that month near Brazza. An AN-26 went in though.

Tom Odom
03-27-2008, 01:18 PM
The most interesting C-47 I saw was in Goma. The ramp guys told me it used to belong to the Mobutu and the Kennedy family. All the pieces were there and the whole thing appeared to be WWII original. Almost nothing had been altered.

Interesting. It was definitely not there in 1994/1995. And Stan and I acted like we owned Ndjili and it was not there either. Probably stashed somewhere upcountry--probably Gbadolite until Mo croaked.

Prettiest A/C I saw in Zaire was the Britannia that was part of the Angola airlift (AKA smuggling).

Tom

Stan
03-27-2008, 01:33 PM
Interesting. It was definitely not there in 1994/1995. And Stan and I acted like we owned Ndjili and it was not there either. Probably stashed somewhere upcountry--probably Gbadolite until Mo croaked.

Tom, not sure if the DC-3 I saw in Gbadolite was a C-47, but it was in great shape. That was however 1989. Also see Wiki's List of C-47 operators (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_C-47_Skytrain_operators).



Prettiest A/C I saw in Zaire was the Britannia that was part of the Angola airlift (AKA smuggling).
Tom

She was part of Transair Cargo. Perhaps the singular reason she looked so mint were the Brits taking care of the airframe (well, and the lack of Zairian pilots didn't hurt either :D).

Here's a little history (http://www.britannia.flyer.co.uk/newsold1.htm) on the Bristol Britannia and some of her technicians.


...including a detailed history of Cosfords Britannia, G-AOVF, and several photographs of the work that has taken place on XM496 at Kemble in recent months.

The Winter 2004 issue of Whisper also includes an update from Roger Hargreaves, Chairman of the Britannia Aircraft Preservation Trust. He highlights the ups and downs of 2004, in particular the lack of progress in the first 6 months, which was turned around in the second half, with progress on undercarriage, painting and engines. This was largely due to the appointment of Martin Fenner as 496 Project Co-ordinator, and John Byrne as Technical Director. Martin works for Rolls-Royce at Derby, and John was based in Zaire operating Britannias for many years, and was the Chief Engineer for Transair Cargo when XM496 flew to Kemble in 1997.

Regards, Stan

Tom Odom
03-27-2008, 02:03 PM
She was part of Transair Cargo. Perhaps the singular reason she looked so mint were the Brits taking care of the airframe (well, and the lack of Zairian pilots didn't hurt either ).

Here's a little history on the Bristol Britannia and some of her technicians.

WOW! Nice to know she did not end up as a smoking hole somewhere in the Congo or Angola like that L-188 did while we were out in Goma.

Thanks!

Tom

Tom Odom
03-31-2008, 06:59 PM
The lastest sit-rep. You have to love it when they fly in the police so they can rob the locals...




Subject: Security Sit Rep March 08/31

Crime rate has alarmingly increased in Goma these days. Confirmed victims are numbered at 9 including a famous businessman, a CAA official, an immigration officer and a FOREX operator. Quick Response Police Units deployed from Kinshasa are alleged to be prey on civilians and some of them are suspected of being street 'children' infiltrated by the hierarchy ; 58 suspects were arrested. A hundred weapons and lots of rounds of ammunition wwere seized.

After three residents were killed last Friday night, riots erupted on the main road to the West, a UN vehicle was stoned by angry mobs. An ASI vehicle driving back to residence was obliged to divert under armed escort. More riots are predictable these days targeting government/police facilities. The Civil Society has decided demonstrations in Goma town next Thursday.

Another attempt to murder a local resident has just been reported today in the West of Goma at around mid day. Primary investigations indicate there is a land conflict between the victim, a local land owner whose property is being confiscated by a local chief, suspected of organising the crime. Unfortunately this land owner was badly wounded and is admitted at Heal
Africa hospital.

UNDSS recommendations : stay watchful, travel in a team, reduce night travel and of course never walk. Stay away from street gatherings which might be hostile demonstrators.

A motorcyclist was stabbed to death by his client in Bunia yesterday afternoon bringing the number of victims to 4 in less than three months. This caused fierce demonstrations all over the town hampering all activities. Motorcyclists are systematically targeted in most of the DRC
towns.

Stan
03-31-2008, 09:27 PM
The lastest sit-rep. You have to love it when they fly in the police so they can rob the locals...

Tom, kinda reminds me of when they flew the Special Presidential Division in to watch over the 31st Para... Nothing like having your booty re-stolen :D


Crime rate has alarmingly increased in Goma these days. ...a FOREX operator.

What in creation are these unarmed folks doing roaming the streets of Goma at night :eek:


Just doing the analyst's SWAG, I would offer he probably failed to pay off all the right folks.

Let us not forget about FOREX and their 'engagements' for minerals, especially in Katanga (export of copper ores from DRC to Zambian smelter facilities with the full blessings of Katanga's Governor).



...Motorcyclists are systematically targeted in most of the DRC towns.

Ahh, so reminiscent of the 90s in K-Town...Don't chase cars, they cause pain when you get run over :D

Stan
03-31-2008, 10:06 PM
A fairly old article from 2007 but a good one ! Ties in nicely with our current SITREPS.

Chris McGreal, guardian.co.uk, Tuesday October 2 2007 (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/oct/02/insideafrica.congo)




"There was no government to speak of so people helped themselves..."

"People in Kinshasa haven't really experienced war like we have so they don't think about it. We think about it a lot."

...Adding to the sense of apocalypse, the Nyiragongo volcano that dominates the Goma skyline fired up a carpet of ash that hung over the town, darkening the skies and prompting mutterings of divine retribution.



There is nothing today to mark the mass graves of the Rwandan Hutus in Goma. There is one opposite the airport, covered in banana plants these days...

"It's as though we forgot part of our history," said Lukunato. "We all knew they came here and died. Everyone saw it. They were tripping over the bodies. But I don't think anyone really remembers that they are still here, beneath our feet.



"War has been good to Masumbuko Kakera. The peace is making him richer still but the wily Congolese trader could not have become one of the wealthiest men in Goma without the years of foreign invasion, occupation and rebel governments, besides the help of nature's occasional assault.

The wars, Lukunato said, changed everything.

"It created division between people. Before the war, I could live with you without caring where you are from. But after the war, I would say you are from the south or Rwanda, you are not from my village, you are different," he said. "I don't think we know what we are anymore. We are not one country. We are not one people. We are Gomatraciens."

Tom Odom
04-01-2008, 12:38 AM
There is nothing today to mark the mass graves of the Rwandan Hutus in Goma. There is one opposite the airport, covered in banana plants these days...

"It's as though we forgot part of our history," said Lukunato. "We all knew they came here and died. Everyone saw it. They were tripping over the bodies. But I don't think anyone really remembers that they are still here, beneath our feet.

But the bananas were good...:eek:

Stan
04-04-2008, 09:35 AM
When will they ever learn ?

With the adoption of resolution 1807 (http://www.monuc.org/News.aspx?newsID=17008) on Monday 31 March 2008, the United Nations Security Council decided that the arms embargo which it had imposed on all parties in the DRC by resolution 1493 (2003), would not apply any more to the DRC government.

Terms of Agreement in Lingala basically translates into "Viva la morte, viva la guerre" :eek:


Under the terms of this resolution, the Council decided that all states, including the DRC, should take the necessary measures to prevent the direct or indirect transfer of weapons to all Congolese and foreign armed groups in North and South Kivu and Ituri, and to the groups which did not sign the overall and inclusive Goma agreement in the DRC.

Resolution 1807 also urges all other states to continue to respect these measures, including nongovernmental agencies and other agencies undertaking activities on Congolese territory.

Tom Odom
04-07-2008, 02:45 PM
latest Congo Sitrep:


A high level meeting including ministers and diplomats was held in Goma yesterday to start implementing resolutions agreed at the North/South Kivu Conference about Peace, Security and Development in January. The expected outcome of this meeting is agreement how to set buffer zones in order to have safe dwelling places for thousands of internally displaced people now estimated at 800,000 souls.

With the adoption of resolution 1807 on Monday 31 March 2008, the United Nations Security Council decided that the arms embargo which it had imposed on all parties in the DRC by resolution 1493 (2003), would not apply any more to the DRC government. The Security Council will re-examine the measures concerned on 31 December, 2008 at the latest, in order to adjust them, according to the consolidation of security in the DRC, with a particular emphasis on the reform of the security sector, including the integration of the armed forces.

Uganda's government and Lord's Resistance Army rebels will sign a final peace deal. Kony was due to sign a final accord on Thursday near his hideout
on the Sudan/Congo border, but LRA negotiators postponed the date until April 10, saying he was still making his way to the agreed assembly area. Some Ugandans doubt whether Kony will quit his jungle hideout in the DRC(Garamba park) where he is supposed to be hiding since 2005.

As a longterm Zaire/Congo guy, you learn that you essentially have two choices in dealing with this region:

a. Start optimistic

b. Start cynical

The "start optimistic" branch of the Congo Club is typically that of the missionary or the peace corps mentality. I have, however, met any number of diplomats and military guys who believe that they will have an effect on the region for the better. Most of the folks who enroll in this branch of the Congo Club have little or no experience on the ground. And most who start optimistic end up completely disillusioned in the end. Those who remain optimistic essentially have a screw loose.

The "start cynical" branch of the Congo Club belongs to those with much experience on the ground, much study of the area, or both. The difference between the cynical branch and the optimistic turned into despair, is that the cynics are more likely to get something done that lasts longer than the initial project funding.

I would have to place the meeting of the ministers and diplomats in Goma as a regional confab of the "Optimists' Club". The one's likely to benefit from that meeting are the ministers who will arrange to benefit from the buffer zones. Never forget they will also be poised to take advantage of the suspended arms embargo.

Tom

Stan
04-08-2008, 08:54 AM
As a longterm Zaire/Congo guy, you learn that you essentially have two choices in dealing with this region:

a. Start optimistic

b. Start cynical


Tom,

b.1. Remain skeptical throughout and avoid the "probabilistic approach" known in diplo speak as “Incorporated Uncertainty Without Personal and/or Visual Observation(s). No, that’s not an acronym :wry:

And with that, and now this...I fall squarely under answers b. and b.1. !
UN has ‘moral duty’ (http://www0.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=26231&Cr=rwanda&Cr1=)to act on lessons of Rwanda – Ban Ki-moon


April 2008 – The United Nations has a “moral duty” to act on the lessons of Rwanda and bolster efforts to prevent another genocide, Ban Ki-moon said in a message (http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2008/sgsm11495.doc.htm) marking the fourteenth anniversary of the Rwandan genocide.


I have created the full-time position of Special Adviser for the Prevention of Genocide and appointed a Special Adviser with a focus on the responsibility to protect -- the obligation accepted by all States to act collectively, through the Security Council, when a population is threatened with genocide, ethnic cleansing or crimes against humanity.

This Special Adviser has his work cut out for him already ! :eek:

Regards, Stan

Tom Odom
04-10-2008, 02:12 PM
There is a good documentary on HBO concerning mass rape in the Congo as a phenomenon that has its roots in the Rwandan genocide and organized rape campaign by the former Hutu hardliner government and militias.

The woman who directed, filmed, and wrote the program is an American who suffered a mass rape in Georgetown, Wash DC so she does openly bring her own suffering into the story. That for me did not weaken the impact of the program, to the contrary it made it more relevant and I have seen this first hand.

Interestingly enough some of the rape madness has transferred itself onto previous cultural inclinations in bizarre ways. In one set of interviews, the filmmaker spoke with some of the Mai Mai who had been consoldated in the new Congolese army. The Mai Mai originated in the early 1960s turmoils under Pierre Mulele. (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,902443,00.html) They believed that magic would turn bullets to water and they used "Mai Mai" or "Mulele Mai" (water water in Swahili and Arabic) when they charged. this was of course helped by the Congolese military habit of shooting in the air or closing their eyes whilst shooting so it did seem these warriors were indeed impervious to bullets. Later use of mercenaries, Belgian and American advisors, and close air support put paid to that theory.

But it has since remerged with a resurreccted Mai Mai. This time rape is considered to offer immunity from bullets as explained in the film.

I will admit I really felt the surge of pure hate come storming back last evening when they were interviewing some of the animals involved in this. Sometimes killing is not hard at hall; not being able to kill is far harder. I truly sympathize and empathize with the UN guys on the ground.

Best

Tom

See

The Greatest Silence: Rape in the Congo (http://www.hbo.com/docs/programs/thegreatestsilence/index.html)

Stan
04-11-2008, 06:16 AM
By Mike Thomson (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7340074.stm)
BBC News, Today programme

A very good article that looks into one of many lives destroyed.


Although Zawadi Mongane's horrific story shocked me - and later much of the world - it is not an unusual story for this part of the Democratic Republic of Congo.

Zawadi says that during those terrible days two of her children were killed in front of her and her brother was decapitated with a machete after he refused to obey a command to rape her.

Yet her most painful memory, which she says still haunts her dreams, is when she was forced to hang her own baby.

Tom Odom
04-11-2008, 01:06 PM
By Mike Thomson (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7340074.stm)
BBC News, Today programme

A very good article that looks into one of many lives destroyed.

Yep and it was our old friends who did it


Rwandan rebel soldiers known as the Interahamwe, many of whom fled over the Congolese border after their involvement in the genocide of 1994, came to Zawadi's village. Her description of what followed is a litany of terrible violence.

Good slide show here on life in the Congo (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/picture_gallery/08/africa_surviving_congo/html/1.stm)

I really like the dirt bike stuck in the mud...reminds me of exploring with Stan


And then here is the latest from Goma. Lake Kivu is still bubbling:


Radio Okapi reported hundreds of fish found dead and floating on lake Kivu at ts south west shore (Minova) last Saturday. Environment minister warned ocals about the danger of eating such fish. Meanwhile samples are being nalysed in lab to tell the cause of that phenomenon. Gas released from the depth of the lake is suspected cause number one to be confirmed later. It akes lake Kivu a hazardous milieu.

Inflation in the Democratic Republic of Congo will probably accelerate as rising fuel costs offset the impact of reduced government expenditure, the central bank said. Side effects are locally perceived as prices go high, for example CELTEL dealers say their rate is 700 Fc for a dollar when selling airtime scratch cards in Goma. And so have the prices of basic items.

General strikes are announced in different towns including the capital city Kinshasa after deliberate errors were reported on February payrolls. Most of civil employees were omitted or demoted. Current negotiations at the ministerial level should prove conclusive tonight otherwise business may be seriously hampered tomorrow.

Security forces in Democratic Republic of Congo's Katanga province have intercepted a truck transporting radioactive mineral ore bound for export, local authorities said on Friday. The truck, carrying 30 tonnes of copper and cobalt ore for Chinese-run firm Hua-Shin Mining, was stopped at an inspection checkpoint near Kolwezi, one of Congo's biggest copper belt mining towns, on Wednesday. Ore mined in Katanga habitually contains trace amounts of uranium, which Congo is currently banned from exporting, Reuters News agency reported on 04 April.

On a different chapter, Alan Doss, the Secretary-General's Special Resentative in the DRC, told the opening of the mixed technical commission on peace and security in the Kivus - otherwise known as the 'Amani programme' - that it was time to move into the "realization phase" of
the peace process

Rex Brynen
04-11-2008, 01:50 PM
By Mike Thomson (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7340074.stm)
BBC News, Today programme

A very good article that looks into one of many lives destroyed.

Stan--excellent, and sobering, piece. Thanks for pointing it out.

Stan
04-11-2008, 03:27 PM
Hey Tom !


Yep and it was our old friends who did it

Nasty bunch those Interahamwe. I'm kinda sorta relieved we left before cannibalism became popular again :wry:


Good slide show here on life in the Congo (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/picture_gallery/08/africa_surviving_congo/html/1.stm)

I really like the dirt bike stuck in the mud...reminds me of exploring with Stan

Looks like time stood still in most of those pics. Just showed my better half; she nearly got sick. Abysmal how it looks to me like any other day in Goma or Kinshasa (I reckon one can adjust to nearly anything these days).

Can't make out the 'arrow' or 'R' on the motocross front fender clearly, but it looks very familiar... I think it was a mining company's emblem at one time. Looks like ownership has suddenly changed hands :D


And then here is the latest from Goma. Lake Kivu is still bubbling:

Seems the majority of the SITREP is situation normal. Love the being demoted part with subsequent salary decreases - that's a keeper. Funny those Chinese, they were far sneakier in the 80s and 90s with their activities in Zaire. Now getting caught with their pants down translates into slight discomfort just ahead of the Olympics and perhaps a more handsome back scratching at the Ministry of Mines this EOM :cool:

For the uninitiated, lake Kivu is one of three dead lakes containing high dissolved volumes of CO2. While most of the fruit cakes (volcanologists) that Tom hung out with in Goma didn't see the lake bed doing an overturn (roll over) anytime soon, which would have made the genocide and refugee crisis look like a picnic (as Tom once wrote... "God missed his chance on making a statement on genocide"), I often wondered about our existence at the lake house every evening watching Nyiragongo smoke and her fishers glow, and the lake dropping 4 feet over night :eek:


Stan--excellent, and sobering, piece. Thanks for pointing it out.

Hey Rex ! There's a few more links, but we collectively decided not to post last night. Kinda real sick Sierra.

Regards, Stan

Norfolk
04-11-2008, 10:12 PM
What's the name of that volcano just north of Goma, with one of only three known permanent lava lakes in the world, lava tubes and fissures that run right under Goma itself, and the fastest-flowing lava on earth?

It makes you wonder just how much worse that region could get, with all the strikes against it already...then again, better not to contemplate that.:wry:

Stan
04-12-2008, 07:01 AM
Hey Norfolk !


What's the name of that volcano just north of Goma, with one of only three known permanent lava lakes in the world, lava tubes and fissures that run right under Goma itself, and the fastest-flowing lava on earth?

It makes you wonder just how much worse that region could get, with all the strikes against it already...then again, better not to contemplate that.:wry:

That volcano is Nyiragongo (http://volcano.und.edu/vwdocs/volc_images/africa/nyiragongo.html), Democratic Republic of Congo (Zaire) and the nearby lake is Kivu.

Here ya go, everything you wanted to know about volcanoes. (http://volcano.und.edu/) They even have a volcano of the month article :)

Regards, Stan

Stan
04-12-2008, 07:03 AM
There have been two fatal attacks in Rwanda during a week of mourning for the victims of the 1994 genocide (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7342866.stm).


Police said armed men threw a grenade at the genocide museum in the capital, killing one policeman and injuring another.

In a separate incident, a car was driven at speed through a commemoration procession, killing one person.

A BBC reporter in Rwanda says tensions remain between survivors and the many people who took part in the killings.

"This act of terrorism was intended to frighten people away from coming to the Kigali Memorial Centre, but has had the opposite effect," said James Smith, head of the Aegis Trust which runs the museum.

The BBC's Geoffrey Mutagoma in the capital, Kigali, says he saw more than 1,000 genocide survivors at the centre on Friday paying their respects to slain friends and relatives.

Norfolk
04-12-2008, 01:20 PM
Hey Norfolk !

That volcano is Nyiragongo (http://volcano.und.edu/vwdocs/volc_images/africa/nyiragongo.html), Democratic Republic of Congo (Zaire) and the nearby lake is Kivu.

Here ya go, everything you wanted to know about volcanoes. (http://volcano.und.edu/) They even have a volcano of the month article :)

Regards, Stan

Thanks Stan.:) I guess the volcano website may have run out of terrestrial volcanoes for its volcano-of-the-month feature; this month it's a cryo-volcano on the moon Titan.;)

Stan
04-13-2008, 01:17 PM
KINSHASA, 11 April 2008 (IRIN) (http://www.monuc.org/news.aspx?newsID=17067) - A DRC human rights group has said mass graves with human remains have been found in the southwestern Bas-Congo Province (http://encarta.msn.com/map_701533446/bas-congo.html) where security forces recently clashed with followers of a religious sect.


"The most recent of these graves, containing the remains of 20 bodies, was discovered on 31 March in Materne, between Boma and Matadi towns," Amigo Gonde, coordinator of the NGO, African Association for Human Rights (Asadho), told IRIN.

"The other two graves - discovered further away and several days earlier - contained some 30 bodies."

Gonde, who demanded an independent inquiry, said one of the graves had apparently been dug up. "The grave at Materne had been dug up by unidentified persons and its contents taken to an unknown place, but there are indications to suggest the bodies were indeed there," he said.
The remains, the NGO quoted local residents as saying, were suspected to be those of Bundu Dia Kongo sect followers because shreds of cloth and flags used by its members were found at the site.

Gonde denounced a continuing crackdown on the sect, saying security personnel were trying to apprehend some followers who had escaped into nearby forests.


It was barely a year ago that MONUC declared the situation in the port city of Matadi "back to normal", with shops, schools and businesses functioning. MONUC did however caution unconfirmed killings of BDK political religious sect members involved in the 2007 unrest and the inability to confirm a death toll for the province. It would now appear that issue has been laid to rest (no pun intended) and/or removed :cool:.

Tom Odom
04-14-2008, 03:12 PM
This one was on the SWJ media round up. It is difficult for me not to laugh when I read this stuff. Consider:


"The report must be in order," said Yangala, 62, a meticulous man in a khaki suit who explained how different things were when he worked for Mobutu's government. "In the old system, I would just take the public money and go drinking with women. When I moved to a different job, I would take the typing machine, the lamps, even the curtains -- I would put them in my house. Now there is no way. Now there is shame."

and


Attempting to satisfy the rising expectations since the 2006 elections, the governor of Katanga, Moise Katumbi -- who presides over an area the size of France -- has made several symbolic gestures.

Though he has no official power to do so, he decreed a new minimum wage of $150 a month. He bought several ambulances and hearses with his own money. He levied new property taxes, planted roses at the airport and painted downtown shops in shades of salmon.

But provincial lawmakers here worry that such efforts will remain symbolic unless a culture of reform takes root, which they say would begin with the implementation of the new constitution.

More at Congo's 'Change of Mentality'
Provincial Officials Seek to End Graft, Mismanagement (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/13/AR2008041302118.html)

Stan
04-18-2008, 02:55 PM
Kinshasa (http://allafrica.com/stories/200804160658.html)

The full extent of the threat posed by landmines and other unexploded ordnance in the Democratic Republic of Congo is unknown but the deadly weapons are a daily concern for tens of thousands of displaced people in the east.


According to Mine Advisory Group (MAG) country director Marc Angibeaud, de-mining efforts through international NGOs such as MAG, Handicap International and DanChurchAid, have cleared the countryside of thousands of anti-personnel mines and UXO, especially in Equateur, Maniema, Katanga and South Kivu provinces.

Work has also been done by the commercial de-mining company, Mechem.

From June 2007 to January 2008, more than 28,000 sqkm of land was cleared; over 3,500 weapons, 5,000 UXO and 35,000 items of ammunition destroyed, and mine education sessions conducted for over 10,000 people. De-miners have also been trained.

"Clearance activities have not only prevented accidents from explosions but also freed land for agriculture and rendered safe many roads and a water source crucial to the villagers' daily activities," MAG noted in a 31 January statement.

"The destruction of the ammunition also means it will not be available for trafficking - a significant problem in the Great Lakes region - thus contributing to regional peace-building."

Stan
04-22-2008, 06:33 PM
Major General Patrick Cammaert is optimistic as to the peace process in the Democratic Republic of the Congo (http://www.africanews.com/site/list_messages/17680), where he served as deputy commander in chief of the Peace Mission until February last year.


The Dutch general says that the DRC armed forces should be careful with their attacks on insurgent general Laurent Nkunda and the FDLR, a Rwandan rebel group also operating in the Eastern part.

Cammaert admits that military pressure is needed, but adds that it should prepare the ground for political talks both with Nkunda and the FDLR.


A relatively short video which from the start concludes UNAMIR was a failure and UN actions in the DRC were more successful, concluding optimism in the DRC's future with democracy and strong will :wry:

Stan
04-28-2008, 07:46 AM
UN troops 'armed DR Congo rebels (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7365283.stm)

"The UN has covered up claims that its troops in Democratic Republic of Congo gave arms to militias and smuggled gold and ivory, the BBC has learned."


- Pakistani peacekeepers in the eastern town of Mongbwalu were involved in the illegal trade in gold with the FNI militia, providing them with weapons to guard the perimeter of the mines.

- Indian peacekeepers operating around the town of Goma had direct dealings with the militia responsible for the Rwandan genocide, now living in eastern DR Congo.

- The Indians traded gold, bought drugs from the militias and flew a UN helicopter into the Virunga National Park, where they exchanged ammunition for ivory.

The UN looked into the allegations concerning the Pakistani troops in 2007.

It concluded that one officer had been responsible for dealing in gold - allowing traders to use UN aircraft to fly into the town, putting them up at the UN base and taking them around the town.

Stan
05-25-2008, 03:41 PM
Jeez, nabbed my neighbor and former VP of the DRC! How many folks could claim to have a .50 cal. nest in their front yard? He kept our neighborhood safe, often anything but quiet, and the Italian restaurant 'round the corner was booming with business during uprisings and civil wars :cool:


ICC Arrest Jean-Pierre Bemba – massive sexual crimes in Central African Republic will not go unpunished The Hague, 24 May 2008

Jean-Pierre Bemba, charged by the ICC for crimes against humanity and war crimes committed in Central African Republic, was today arrested in the suburbs of Brussels, Belgium.

Mr. Bemba is chairman of the Mouvement de Libération du Congo (MLC), an armed group which intervened in the 2002-2003 armed conflict in Central African Republic (CAR) and pursued a plan of terrorizing and brutalizing innocent civilians, in particular during a campaign of massive rapes and looting. Mr Bemba had already used the same tactics in the past, in CAR, in the DRC, always leaving a trail of death and destruction behind him.

He is the first person arrested in the context of the ICC investigation in CAR which was opened by Prosecutor Luis Moreno-Ocampo in May 2007. Further investigation are proceeding.

“This arrest was a complex and well-prepared operation’’ said Prosecutor Moreno-Ocampo. “We are grateful to all countries involved, including Belgium which immediately executed the Arrest Warrant in accordance with their obligations under the Rome Statute. I am thankful to all those who assisted in tracing Mr. Bemba, to avoid any possibility of his escaping international justice”

The number of rapes carried out with shocking brutality is a particular feature of this case. “He had done it before in CAR, he had done it before in the DRC. He had to be stopped.” said Prosecutor Moreno-Ocampo.

More at the link...

Stan
06-14-2008, 04:03 PM
Kenyan police have confirmed they are carrying out DNA tests on a man suspected of being the most wanted criminal from the Rwandan genocide (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7454686.stm).


... it could be Felicien Kabuga, a Rwandan businessman accused by the International Criminal Court of being a key financier of the Rwandan genocide.

They are seeking to establish whether the man they are holding is Mr Kabuga, a man with a $5m (£2.4m) bounty on his head.

He is accused of being one of the key figures behind the 1994 genocide in Rwanda where some 800,000 Tutsis and moderate Hutus were killed.

In the past the Kenyan authorities have been accused of harbouring alleged war criminals and have been threatened with action from the UN security council.

Stan
06-27-2008, 09:39 PM
all kinds of problems...

When 7.6 million dollars just isn't quite enough :eek:



The politicians here are not going to saw off the branch they are sitting on. Mobutu's money (http://allafrica.com/stories/200806240474.html) is the fruit of corruption, but politics haven't changed that much. When the government awards mining contracts to the Chinese without calling for tenders, it means commissions have been paid.

A Swiss court has ordered eight million Swiss francs to be unblocked in favour of the heirs of Mobutu Sese Seko, the former dictator of Zaire. The Swiss are trying to convince the government of the Democratic Republic of Congo to send an envoy to collect the money in the name of the Congolese people, but Kinshasa doesn't seem to care.

When the sum in what appeared as only Mobutu's Swiss piggybank came up at a press conference concluding Calmy-Rey's visit, Kabila could hardly conceal his disappointment. "Unfortunately it is only eight million Swiss francs, not the tens of billions we expected." So, does Congo's current leader think that the game isn't worth the candle?

Stan
07-03-2008, 08:06 PM
Ex-vice-president Jean-Pierre Bemba of the DR Congo has been extradited to The Hague (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7487932.stm) to face trial for war crimes and crimes against humanity in the CAR.

Hmmm, justice comes to Africa ? If they could catalog or even imagine what my neighbor did in his own country... he'd have been hung by the short and curlies several times... decades ago :rolleyes:


Mr Bemba went into exile after being accused of high treason in his home country for refusing to disarm his militia after his defeat in presidential elections in 2006.

He was leader of the rebel group (and one of four vice-presidents in a transitional government), the Movement for the Liberation of Congo, which later became a political party.

Stan
07-07-2008, 01:10 PM
UN troops 'armed DR Congo rebels (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7365283.stm)

"The UN has covered up claims that its troops in Democratic Republic of Congo gave arms to militias and smuggled gold and ivory, the BBC has learned."

Three Indian army officers have been let off with a warning over allegations of gold trafficking while they were UN peacekeepers in the DR Congo (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7492485.stm).


A UN report said there was evidence that Indian troops in eastern Congo had traded gold and drugs with a militia involved in the Rwandan genocide.

Some Indian soldiers were alleged to have traded gold with the militia, bought drugs from them and even flown a UN helicopter into the Virunga National Park, where they exchanged ammunition for ivory.

Those soldiers have been let off with a warning.

Critics of the UN will argue that this is exactly what they expected and proves that allegations, no matter how serious, seldom result in the disciplining of the troops under its command.

Tom Odom
07-07-2008, 01:49 PM
Three Indian army officers have been let off with a warning over allegations of gold trafficking while they were UN peacekeepers in the DR Congo (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7492485.stm).

Stan,

Never forget our friends from the 700 Club and their Op Blessing facade.

In any case, the problem is that the UN has no enforcement authority over these troops--that remains in national hands. The Nigerian contingent in UNAMIR 2 in 1995 had a soldier murder a local--in the UN compound--and the contingent commander helped cover it up. They were sent home at the insistence of the new Rwandan government; my friend the RPA G3 did the investigation.

Plus UN civilian leaders have engaged in similar escapades. Remember that dear old Boutrus Boutrous-Ghali was in bed with the French in supporting the former government on Rwanda during the run up to trhe genocide. His successor Kofi Anan helped set up the oil for food program with Iraq (the one his son used to get rich). I am unaware of anyone who screwed up on a UN mission actually paying for such transgressions in jail time.

Rex, do you have any insights?

Tom

Rex Brynen
07-08-2008, 02:33 AM
In any case, the problem is that the UN has no enforcement authority over these troops--that remains in national hands....

Rex, do you have any insights?


You've hit the nail on the head--with PKOs, the military contingents remain under national command authority, and the most the UN can do is ask that they be sent home (hopefully to face discipline, but often not).

With UN civilian personnel, there are at least administrative disciplinary measures that can be taken (up to and including firing them), although it seems very rare that this ever happens.

The issue has become particularly problematic with regard to issues of sexual abuse, as I'm sure you know--hence the adoption of a "zero tolerance" policy. With military peacekeeping personnel, however, still requires that troop contributing countries cooperate.

According to the UN (http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=21169&Cr=sex&Cr1=abuse):


Between January 2004 and November 2006, 319 peacekeeping personnel in all missions had been investigated, resulting in the summary dismissal of 18 civilians and the repatriation on disciplinary grounds of 17 police and 144 military personnel.

I haven't seen more recent statistics--nor does it say what happened to the non-civilian personnel when they got home..

Stan
07-08-2008, 04:03 AM
Stan,

Never forget our friends from the 700 Club and their Op Blessing facade.


Now Tom, Pat paid back nearly 400K and besides, those birds were deemed unsuitable for humanitarian airlift :wry:


In any case, the problem is that the UN has no enforcement authority over these troops--that remains in national hands. The Nigerian contingent in UNAMIR 2 in 1995 had a soldier murder a local--in the UN compound--and the contingent commander helped cover it up. They were sent home at the insistence of the new Rwandan government; my friend the RPA G3 did the investigation.
Tom

I reckon I expected more (perhaps too much) from India's contingents, although Rex's stats for a two-year period are certainly reasonable considering the large scale missions.

I was however by no means surprised by the former Zairians trading fake gold for ammo and airlift in the bush. :D

Stan
07-08-2008, 06:30 AM
I remain blissfully skeptical :eek:

Tom Odom
07-08-2008, 01:09 PM
Great pic, Stan. I wish I had a pic of the M113 chicken coop that the Ghanians in UNAMIR2 had at a roadblock.

Sometimes--not always and never when it comes to sunglasses, gold chains, and taped magazines--appearances are decieviing. The scraggiest battalion in UNAMIR 2 was the Ethiopian battalion they came with small arms (AKs) a couple of magazines and not much else. They lived rough, ate rough, solicited local woman for labor and entertainment--which they paid for. And they had the most stable sector in the mission even though it was at least number 2 in threat.

They came with a national ROE which equated to "don't ask for permission and don't ask for more support, either.' That meant when some ex-FAR or Interahamwe scum bag crossed into their sector, they shot 'em. When their was cross border fire, they returned better than they took.

They at first drove the Force Commander MG Tousignant to distraction until he saw that they were getting the job done. Their base camp looked more like an African version of a Mexican bandit camp. They did not clean up well for parades.

The RPA loved them. The Ethiopians had all been rebels too.

Best

Tom

Stan
07-08-2008, 02:34 PM
Great pic, Stan. I wish I had a pic of the M113 chicken coop that the Ghanians in UNAMIR2 had at a roadblock.

Sometimes--not always and never when it comes to sunglasses, gold chains, and taped magazines--appearances are decieviing. The scraggiest battalion in UNAMIR 2 was the Ethiopian battalion they came with small arms (AKs) a couple of magazines and not much else. They lived rough, ate rough, solicited local woman for labor and entertainment--which they paid for. And they had the most stable sector in the mission even though it was at least number 2 in threat.

They came with a national ROE which equated to "don't ask for permission and don't ask for more support, either.' That meant when some ex-FAR or Interahamwe scum bag crossed into their sector, they shot 'em. When their was cross border fire, they returned better than they took.

They at first drove the Force Commander MG Tousignant to distraction until he saw that they were getting the job done. Their base camp looked more like an African version of a Mexican bandit camp. They did not clean up well for parades.

The RPA loved them. The Ethiopians had all been rebels too.

Best

Tom

Hope to dig up that pic for you, Tom. There's indeed plenty of praise for Ghana's peacekeeping missions in Africa (http://www.library.yale.edu/~fboateng/peace.htm).


The examples are not hard to find. When the going was tough in Rwanda in 1994, the Ghanaian contingent, under Brig. Henry Anyidoho, offered the much-needed protection to the people at their peril and within the dire constraints at the time. Annan, speaking in Accra recently during a photo exhibition to mark the 40th anniversary of Ghana's peacekeeping, confirms the heroism of Ghanaian peacekeepers who, he said, have distinguished themselves by their courage and professionalism.

Much more at the link...

Tom Odom
07-08-2008, 03:06 PM
Hope to dig up that pic for you, Tom. There's indeed plenty of praise for Ghana's peacekeeping missions in Africa (http://www.library.yale.edu/~fboateng/peace.htm).



Much more at the link...

Henry was indeed one of the good guys. We started off fairly cool but the relationship warmed up when he understood I was not playing games. I know Dallaire thought a lot of him as he did of the Ghanians in general.

but the Ghanians always looked sharp--even with their 113 chicken coop. And they were very much wedded to a formal chain of command. The Ethiopians were more like Oddball's tankers in Kelly's Heroes. They always looked ragged but they got the job done.

Best

Tom

Stan
08-01-2008, 04:03 PM
And here we go again...

Government forces and rebel troops are rearming and recruiting for conflict in the east of the Democratic Republic of Congo (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7537624.stm)...


US and European Union officials are warning the situation is increasingly tense despite a January peace deal.

One source said six plane-loads of arms and ammunition had been flown into Goma by the government in the last 10 days.

Recruiting

It now appears that General Nkunda is not just touring his area and strengthening his defences.

Stan
08-05-2008, 07:13 PM
in Rwanda's Genocide (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7542418.stm).


Earlier this year France's Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner denied French responsibility in connection with the genocide, but said political errors had been made.

And here they go again:


A justice ministry report said France was aware of preparations for the genocide and helped train the ethnic Hutu militia perpetrators.

Among those named in the report were the late former president, Francois Mitterrand, and two former prime ministers, Dominique de Villepin and Edouard Balladur.

Also named was former Foreign Minister Alain Juppe.

The French foreign ministry told the BBC it would only respond to the fresh allegations after reading the report, which was released on Tuesday afternoon.

Wagram
08-06-2008, 06:24 AM
I think you have missed the important bit in the article....

Diversion tactic?

It certainly raises questions about Rwanda's motivation in taking this step.
The public reason given is a search for justice.
As Rwanda's Minister of Justice Tharcisse Karugarama put it to the BBC, those responsible for the Jewish Holocaust are still being hunted down decades after World War II, so why should we rest while the people behind the genocide are still at large?
But other reasons have spurred Rwanda to take this step.
Chief among them has been an iron determination to keep the world's attention focused on the genocide, rather than on the role of the Rwandan Patriotic Front (RPF), the force that took power in 1994, bringing President Paul Kagame to power.
In recent years uncomfortable questions have been raised about the war crimes the RPF are alleged to have committed during and after 1994.
While stressing there can be no equation between genocide and war crimes, Alison Des Forges of Human Rights Watch says RPF leaders do have a case to answer.
"Their victims also deserve justice," she says.
The case against the RPF:
The International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda was mandated to look at all crimes committed in 1994, yet with their mandate supposed to run out by the end of this year they have so far failed to indict any members of the RPF.
In 2006 a French judge, Jean-Louis Bruguiere, issued arrest warrants against nine of President Paul Kagame's senior officials, alleging their complicity in the murder of the late Rwandan President, Juvenal Habyarimana, in April 1994 - the event that sparked off the genocide.
And in February 2008 a Spanish judge, Fernando Andreu, issued international arrest warrants against 40 senior Rwandan officials for crimes allegedly committed in the 1990s.
Painful questions
There is also a political dimension.
Since the RPF took power, relations with France have been distinctly cool.
President Kagame and his closest associates come from a group of English-speaking Tutsi refugees who grew up in Uganda.
The country has moved away from the French sphere of influence in Africa and towards the Anglophone bloc.
Former British Prime Minister Tony Blair is now an adviser of President Kagame, and former American President Bill Clinton is a close friend.
Rwanda believes it does not need France and feels free to raise painful questions about Paris's role in the genocide.
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/africa/7544267.stm

Published: 2008/08/05 22:12:22 GMT

© BBC MMVIII


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7544267.stm

Tom Odom
08-06-2008, 12:58 PM
No I don't think he has missed it at all.

We are quite well aware of Alison Des Forges at HRW. The same holds true concerning the French judge who issued those most dubious charges.

Also aware of the Spanish charges, again dubious.

No one including me --or Paul Kagame--claims that the RPA was innocent of revenge killings in 1994 into 1998. The issue has always been a question of whether government policy supported such killings. From my perspective on the ground from 1994 into 1996 it did not. From the perspective of my successor Rick Orth and my 2nd Ambassador Robert Gribbin it did not. Like me Bob has writtten a book (http://www.amazon.com/Aftermath-Genocide-U-S-Role-Rwanda/dp/0595344119) on his time there

As for political agenda, France's political agenda in supporting the previous regime before during and after the genocide is a matter of record and my own personal experience.

Try looking at French historian Gerard Prunier's (http://www.amazon.com/Rwanda-Crisis-G%C3%A9rard-Prunier/dp/023110409X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1218027402&sr=1-1)work on the issue as well as Linda Melvern (http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/2008/08/book-review-conspiracy-to-murd/), Andrew Wallis (http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/2008/08/book-review-silent-accomplice/), and Stephen Kinzer. (http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/2008/07/book-review-a-thousand-hills-r/)

Tom


I think you have missed the important bit in the article....

Diversion tactic?

It certainly raises questions about Rwanda's motivation in taking this step.
The public reason given is a search for justice.
As Rwanda's Minister of Justice Tharcisse Karugarama put it to the BBC, those responsible for the Jewish Holocaust are still being hunted down decades after World War II, so why should we rest while the people behind the genocide are still at large?
But other reasons have spurred Rwanda to take this step.
Chief among them has been an iron determination to keep the world's attention focused on the genocide, rather than on the role of the Rwandan Patriotic Front (RPF), the force that took power in 1994, bringing President Paul Kagame to power.
In recent years uncomfortable questions have been raised about the war crimes the RPF are alleged to have committed during and after 1994.
While stressing there can be no equation between genocide and war crimes, Alison Des Forges of Human Rights Watch says RPF leaders do have a case to answer.
"Their victims also deserve justice," she says.
The case against the RPF:
The International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda was mandated to look at all crimes committed in 1994, yet with their mandate supposed to run out by the end of this year they have so far failed to indict any members of the RPF.
In 2006 a French judge, Jean-Louis Bruguiere, issued arrest warrants against nine of President Paul Kagame's senior officials, alleging their complicity in the murder of the late Rwandan President, Juvenal Habyarimana, in April 1994 - the event that sparked off the genocide.
And in February 2008 a Spanish judge, Fernando Andreu, issued international arrest warrants against 40 senior Rwandan officials for crimes allegedly committed in the 1990s.
Painful questions
There is also a political dimension.
Since the RPF took power, relations with France have been distinctly cool.
President Kagame and his closest associates come from a group of English-speaking Tutsi refugees who grew up in Uganda.
The country has moved away from the French sphere of influence in Africa and towards the Anglophone bloc.
Former British Prime Minister Tony Blair is now an adviser of President Kagame, and former American President Bill Clinton is a close friend.
Rwanda believes it does not need France and feels free to raise painful questions about Paris's role in the genocide.
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/africa/7544267.stm

Published: 2008/08/05 22:12:22 GMT

© BBC MMVIII


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7544267.stm

Wagram
08-06-2008, 02:26 PM
With all due respect, I must admit that I take ANY of your comment related to France or french people with a ton of salt.

Having used the "search" function of the forum with the key words "France" or "french", I have noticed your very strong and permanent bias against my country and/or fellow countrymen. It leads me not to give any credit to your sources and allegations.

It is probably normal considering the french were at some point the sponsors of the enemies of your champion Paul Kagame.

Or, to cut a long story short:

http://nancyetroland.free.fr/private/Histoire/Rwanda/20060531-1_p053106pm-0200jpg-515h.jpg

To sum it all up, considering the high quality of the forum, I find your anti-french crusade fairly tiresome and completely out of date.

Steve Blair
08-06-2008, 02:43 PM
Let me just remind everyone at this point that personal attacks are not tolerated on this forum. Period.

Wagram, Tom Odom's comments on French activities in Africa are based on his personal experiences in that region. If you choose to dispute his experiences, please do so with concrete examples of where he might be in error, not by claiming that he's on an "anti-French crusade."

Tom Odom
08-06-2008, 03:25 PM
Wagram: With all due respect, I must admit that I take ANY of your comment related to France or french people with a ton of salt.

Having used the "search" function of the forum with the key words "France" or "french", I have noticed your very strong and permanent bias against my country and/or fellow countrymen. It leads me not to give any credit to your sources and allegations.

Ignorance is a lack of knowledge.

Stupidity is an inability or a refusal to learn.

The sources I suggested can help with the first condition.

Tom

Rex Brynen
08-06-2008, 06:07 PM
To sum it all up, considering the high quality of the forum, I find your anti-french crusade fairly tiresome and completely out of date.

He's got something against Canadian bears too.

Tom Odom
08-06-2008, 06:19 PM
He's got something against Canadian bears too.

I love bears....

I wanna put one on my floor...:D

Stan
08-06-2008, 07:28 PM
j'ai oublié comment parler français !

Greetings Wagram.


I think you have missed the important bit in the article....


That, I seriously doubt.

I tell you what: I'll base my ignorance on over a decade in that region, if you'll back your words with just a hint of your background in the French military, and/or that region.

Your reply is optional...


Diversion tactic?

It certainly raises questions about Rwanda's motivation in taking this step.
The public reason given is a search for justice.

As Rwanda's Minister of Justice Tharcisse Karugarama put it to the BBC, those responsible for the Jewish Holocaust are still being hunted down decades after World War II, so why should we rest while the people behind the genocide are still at large?

But other reasons have spurred Rwanda to take this step.
Chief among them has been an iron determination to keep the world's attention focused on the genocide, rather than on the role of the Rwandan Patriotic Front (RPF), the force that took power in 1994, bringing President Paul Kagame to power.



Ya know, I wished like most, that the world's attention remained focused on the genocide. Sadly, it did not.

Tom and I are unlikely to ever forget our experiences in Zaire and Rwanda, and, I sincerely doubt any living Rwandan will either... ever.


In recent years uncomfortable questions have been raised about the war crimes the RPF are alleged to have committed during and after 1994.
While stressing there can be no equation between genocide and war crimes, Alison Des Forges of Human Rights Watch says RPF leaders do have a case to answer.
"Their victims also deserve justice," she says.

If we are to now classify the Rwandan genocide as a mere matter of being uncomfortable tied to deserved justice, then there's little reason to continue dialog herein. Furthermore, I have little respect for people who recite poetry from the comforts of their living rooms in front of the TV.



Painful questions
There is also a political dimension.
Since the RPF took power, relations with France have been distinctly cool.
President Kagame and his closest associates come from a group of English-speaking Tutsi refugees who grew up in Uganda.
The country has moved away from the French sphere of influence in Africa and towards the Anglophone bloc.
Former British Prime Minister Tony Blair is now an adviser of President Kagame, and former American President Bill Clinton is a close friend.
Rwanda believes it does not need France and feels free to raise painful questions about Paris's role in the genocide.


There is and has always been painfully political dimensions, and relations with the French in that region have been a sore point of contention. That, however, does not permit condoning the act of genocide (and later supporting individuals involved).

Hacksaw
08-06-2008, 09:16 PM
something about french protestations, obfuscation and posturing that rings a rather hollow note.

Then again they did sail some ships some 233 years ago, since then ehhhh not so much

Steve Blair
08-07-2008, 12:50 PM
But at a former job I worked with a fair number of African exchange students (mostly from Kenya, Zimbabwe, and Botswana) over a period of several years. To a man they had a strong dislike for the French...moreso than any other national group. That was something I always found rather interesting. Note that I am NOT an old Africa hand, do not play one on TV, and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. I just always found it interesting that of all the national groups that had mucked about in Africa it was the French who my particular students remembered and disliked.

Stan
08-07-2008, 06:07 PM
Hey Bill !


But at a former job I worked with a fair number of African exchange students (mostly from Kenya, Zimbabwe, and Botswana) over a period of several years. To a man they had a strong dislike for the French...moreso than any other national group. That was something I always found rather interesting. Note that I am NOT an old Africa hand, do not play one on TV, and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. I just always found it interesting that of all the national groups that had mucked about in Africa it was the French who my particular students remembered and disliked.

From the mid to late 80s I taught and also prepared African soldiers from 7 countries to attend professional military courses in CONUS. I think it's important to note that while they had a strong dislike for French, they were quick to blame France's relations with its former colonies, and her discretion and discrimination in dealing with African states.

I've personally observed France's foreign policy role and some of her (mid-80s) Socialist government foreign policy in French-speaking Africa. To put it mildly, several instances of contradictions in French policy took place daily at both their embassy and military training sites.

One of the very reasons I decided to learn Lingala (in addition to French) early on (something like learning Russian instead of Estonian while living in Estonia). The time spent opened doors and made my job far easier...

... then came Tom :D.

We may be ugly Americans, but the French have raised the bar in Sub-Sahara.

Tom Odom
08-07-2008, 07:27 PM
On the subject of Kagame, it has been interesting to note the inherent racism that gets applied in the judgements--often well meaning--folks on either side of the aisle (the aisle being those who support what he is doing and those who are against it). Many assume that he cannot dio what he is doing because he is African and all Africans are supposed to be corrupt.

I ran into the same bias when it came to explaining that Kagame's army could take Zaire anytime it wanted to. I found it amusing in 1998 when the Wash post called me looking for a story. They wanted me to "confirm" that US military training had enabled the RPA to take Zaire. I laughed at the reporter and told her "the Boys" as they call themselves were quite capable of doing what they had done without US assistance. The same thinking puts too much stock in his brief stay at Fort Leavenworth; the US Army can hardly claim credit for Paul Kagame's military genius.

Kagame makes folks uncomfortable because he is not asking for help with conditions. He had rather have investments in his country than foreign assistance. He has great distrust of NGOs and the IO development community because he has seen them become self-perpetuating entities. When I dealt with him and his senior officers, they asked for training first. When it came to material, they looked for basics: transport and communications. He did not want a long shopping list of equipment; he didn't want anything that came with strings or a note to be called in later.

He angers folks like Human Rights Watch because he does not do what they want him to do. He may select a course that allows some compromise. Or as he sometimes does, he sets his mind and that's it--usually. He also is politely blunt. He does not do the African political two step. Often the most important things Kagame says are what he does not say. It infuriates many who cannot hear a refusal without it being said.

Kagame is all about self-sufficiency and serious behavior. read Kinzer's book about his crackdown on government officials with their Mercedes. He had the police stop them at traffic lights and then they impounded their cars--the cars were sold and the money put back in the budget. He has forbidden any members of his famlly to serve in the government. The quickest way to be purged from the government is to attract his attention via corruption.

As much as Kagame dislikes French policy in Africa and in particular in Rwanda, he is not about to become the lead in expanding Anglophone Africa. That charge was a favorite of the French in the 1990s. Nor is Kagame about to become a newer version of Mobutu. To paint him as a proxy of the US means simply you have never met him. I believe that Museveni assumed that he would be able to use the Rwandans when he wanted to; it took open fighting between Ugandan and Rwandan forces in the Congo to end that illusion.

Now this is not to say, Paul Kagame is a saint. He is driven in his single mindedness and so far he has managed to adhere to a strngent code of behavior. He is ruthless in his determination to keep Rwanda moving and a large part of that means controlling the tensions that are never very far beneath the surface. Those tensions come from both sides and he is in the middle. It is a pressure cooker. I am in the camp that says the situation demands a firm hand and Kagame doing better than 99.99% of the rest of the population could or would do. I don't agree with the characterization of him as a dictator; his leadership is drawn from communal consent within the RPF.

So far he has done well. I hope that he continues to do so.

Tom

Tom Odom
08-08-2008, 02:55 PM
Looks like Andrew Wallis (http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/2008/08/book-review-silent-accomplice/)and Linda Melvern (http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/2008/08/book-review-conspiracy-to-murd/)are getting some air time:



Calls for France to rethink its Africa role (http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0808/p06s02-woeu.html)
A Rwandan report this week charged Paris with complicity in the 1994 genocide.
By Robert Marquand | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
from the August 8, 2008 edition


Paris - A bombshell of a report by Rwanda this week implicating high-ranking French officials in the arming and training of Hutu forces that committed genocide in Rwanda – could have been issued last November. President Paul Kagame sat on the 500-page study, approved by the Rwandan Senate, for months.

It was a time of some bonhomie with France. President Nicolas Sarkozy and Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner, much liked in Kigali, were working on a new rapprochement policy – after Rwanda broke all ties with France in 2006 over a French judge's indictment of Mr. Kagame for allegedly ordering an assassination in 1994.

Kagame, a Tutsi, appears to have lost patience with France. He had hoped that the 2006 indictment would be renounced and that high-level Hutus still living in France would be deported to Rwanda to face genocide charges.

Still, what is likely the last major report on the 1994 Rwandan genocide that killed more than 800,000, leaves France with an embarrassing problem – one cutting to the heart of its own political elite, to a network of French unofficial "parallel structures" of commerce and intelligence in Africa, and to how a major power will deal with thorny questions of justice about its behavior in the postcolonial world.


France and genocide: the murky truth (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article4481353.ece)
How far was Mitterrand's Government involved in the slaughter of hundred of thousands of Rwandans?

Linda Melvern

There is remarkable television footage shot in the first days of the genocide in Rwanda. It shows a large room in the French Embassy in Kigali filled floor to ceiling with shredded documents. This was probably the paper trail that might have revealed the depth of involvement between the Elysée Palace and the Hutu faction responsible for massacring hundreds of thousands of Tutsi and opposition Hutu.

This week Rwanda's commission of inquiry published its findings into the role of France in the genocide of 1994. The report - the fruit of two years' work that includes the testimony of 638 witnesses, including survivors and perpetrators of genocide - is damning. It says that certain French politicians, diplomats and military leaders - including President François Mitterrand - were complicit in genocide. The French authorities knowingly aided and abetted what happened by training Hutu militia and devising strategy for Rwanda's armed forces. Training and funding was also given to Rwandan intelligence services on how to establish a database later used to draw up a “kill list” of Tutsi.

Tom Odom
08-14-2008, 03:23 PM
Davidbfpo (http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/member.php?u=235) was truly gracious in copying and sending me a copy of an article from RUSI june 2008, Vol 153, No.3.

The title is "The Boot is now on the Other Foot" by Greg Mills. Mr. Mills discusses the evolution of the Rwanda Patriotic Front/Army into the Rwandan Defense Forces. He offers insights on the wars in the Congo that are quite illuminating. If you have access to RUSI via your library I would recommend looking at this one.

Best

Tom

Michael F
08-15-2008, 09:47 AM
Dear Tom Odom,

I fully agree with most of your points (no need of US trg for RPA to invade DRC, Kagame and corruption,etc...) but i have some doubts about "he is not about to become the lead in expanding Anglophone Africa".

1. Rwanda used to be a French speaking country (in addition to Kinyarwanda off course)and only Rwandan Tutsi living in Uganda since the independance are English speakers. Since RPF took controll over the country, English is becoming the defacto official language despite French still being more spread among the population (It’s spoken fluently by eight percent of Rwanda’s population as compared with only three percent for English, according to official statistics).

2. Contacts with the Commonwealth organization have been established and Rwandan consider joining.

3. Rwanda moved away from the CEAC (mostly French regional association) to EAC (mostly English speaking association).

4. Google and check the multiple articles on the very RPF "Rwandan Times" about visits of Kagame to London and the US, or visit of UK conservative MPs to Rwanda. It's just amazing. Oh, i almost forgot...Tony Blair (retired UK PM and Rwanda's unpaid adviser).

etc...

He may not be the lead of expansion but he surely is helping that.

Tom Odom
08-15-2008, 12:30 PM
I would say we are in agreement; my point is that Kagame's purpose in establishing such ties is to serve Rwanda, not some greater Anglophone conspiracy as it was described in the mid-90s by the French in defense of Francophonie. Secondly I would say the changes are more a reaction against the French (and the French language) than a desire to promote Anglophone interests, whatever that means.

The worst mistake outsiders can make regarding Kagame is to assume he is doing something to please someone or some faction outside Rwanda rather than serving Rwandan interests as he defines them.

Michael great posts! Welcome

Tom


Dear Tom Odom,

I fully agree with most of your points (no need of US trg for RPA to invade DRC, Kagame and corruption,etc...) but i have some doubts about "he is not about to become the lead in expanding Anglophone Africa".

1. Rwanda used to be a French speaking country (in addition to Kinyarwanda off course)and only Rwandan Tutsi living in Uganda since the independance are English speakers. Since RPF took controll over the country, English is becoming the defacto official language despite French still being more spread among the population (It’s spoken fluently by eight percent of Rwanda’s population as compared with only three percent for English, according to official statistics).

2. Contacts with the Commonwealth organization have been established and Rwandan consider joining.

3. Rwanda moved away from the CEAC (mostly French regional association) to EAC (mostly English speaking association).

4. Google and check the multiple articles on the very RPF "Rwandan Times" about visits of Kagame to London and the US, or visit of UK conservative MPs to Rwanda. It's just amazing. Oh, i almost forgot...Tony Blair (retired UK PM and Rwanda's unpaid adviser).

etc...

He may not be the lead of expansion but he surely is helping that.

Michael F
08-15-2008, 01:37 PM
Tom,

I agee, Kagame does what his best for himself, the Rwandan national interests,... It's fairly realistic and wise. Alone Rwanda cannot attract the much needed investments it needs to cope with its economical disavantadges (landlocked country, lack of available land,...). It needs also to secure diplomatic support for its security policy (FDLR).

You seem to have a good knowledge of Kagame's background. Can you confirm me an "African legend" about him? Is he the nephew of mwami Kigeri V ? Sorces disagree about that and his bio is silent about it.

Michael

Tom Odom
08-15-2008, 01:58 PM
Michael,

According to Stephen Kinzer and Colin Waugh, both his parents were of royal lineage. His mother was cousin to the Queen married to King Mutara III Rudahigwa. It was the King's chaffeur--sent by the Queen--who rescued Kagame's familiy when the first post-independence slaughters began. His father drank himself to death in exile.

All of this means his familial ties were noble and into the Queen's side of the throne; not clear it they went to the king's side.

Tom

Michael F
08-15-2008, 02:19 PM
Great answer.
It creates an historic link between the Mwami's and the current president and makes him a member of the royal clan.

I just made some research and found some interesting websites about Kagame's royal linkage: http://www.orwelltoday.com/readerrwandaqueen.shtml AND http://www.orwelltoday.com/kagamerwandareturn.shtml

Most relevant among all: "His (kagame's) mother, Asteria, was a sister of the late king's wife, Rosalie Gicanda. King Mutara Rudahigwa had died in Burundi in 1959 and his successor, Kigeli V returned to Kampala in 1972 and was able to offer moral if not material support to his relations in exile." according to Sharangabo Rufagari.

I did not know about his father's suicide. Surely due to the living conditions in the refugee camps.

carl
08-16-2008, 01:03 PM
Regarding the RUSI article Tom mentioned:

just google rusi june 2008 vol 153 no.3

and it comes up. It was the fifth from the top when I did it.

Tom Odom
08-16-2008, 01:13 PM
Thanks Carl!


Here is a direct link: (http://www.slimdonaldmacdonald.com/alfrica/blog/wp-content/uploads/documents/mills_journal_june2008.pdf)

SWCAdmin
08-18-2008, 09:28 PM
In response to

Most relevant among all: "His (kagame's) mother, Asteria, was a sister of the late king's wife, Rosalie Gicanda. King Mutara Rudahigwa had died in Burundi in 1959 and his successor, Kigeli V returned to Kampala in 1972 and was able to offer moral if not material support to his relations in exile." according to Sharangabo Rufagari.

I did not know about his father's suicide. Surely due to the living conditions in the refugee camps.
...we received the note below. Posting it here as a courtesy, as received [sic]. I have encouraged Mr. Rufagari to join the forum and add to the discussion.



Dear Sir,

I would like to correct something which was said about Paul KAGAME on the Blog and I am quoted on It.

While surfing the web.I came across your blog and find out that your members were discussing about PAUL KAGAME and the Rwanda army.Altough I have written extensively on the internet about Rwanda's subject I have not produced any academic or referencial document on the country.

Regarding the passing away of KAGAME'S father and for correction in what has been written on yor blog.I am informing your members that the father of Paul Kagame passed away due to NATURAL CAUSE(IlLness) and not as a suicide as it was wrongly stated by one of your blog members.

Hoping that my present statement will be published for all your members to Read.

Thankfully

Sharangabo Rufagari

Michael F
08-19-2008, 10:32 AM
Dear SWCadmin,

It would be very interesting for M. Rufagari to join this discussion indeed.
Regarding the passing away of President Kagame's father, I did not find anything on the web confirming he committed suicide or died of sickness. It will remain a mistery or a topic of discussion.

Michael F
08-19-2008, 11:40 AM
In response to

...we received the note below. Posting it here as a courtesy, as received [sic]. I have encouraged Mr. Rufagari to join the forum and add to the discussion.

An other reason to ask Mr. Rufagari to join this forum would be to discuss with him about the current events in North Kivu (DRoC). He seems to have some opinions about Laurent Nkunda and the CNDP over there. It would be interesting to have some of his comments about that "small war".

Tom Odom
08-19-2008, 12:16 PM
Stephen Kinzer describes Kagame's father and essentially says that he drank himself to an early death. Whether you call that suicide or not is subject to intepretation.

In any case, welcome to the forum Mr Rufagari

Tom

Tom Odom
08-19-2008, 12:38 PM
Stephen Kinzer describes Kagame's father and essentially says that he drank himself to an early death. Whether you call that suicide or not is subject to intepretation.

In any case, welcome to the forum Mr Rufagari

Tom

And speaking of Mssr Kinzer: he spoke of the French in the 15 August International Herald Tribune


RWANDAN GENOCIDE (http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/08/15/opinion/edkinzer.php)
A devastating report on France's role
By Stephen Kinzer Published: August 15, 2008

Is the defendant's dock at the International Criminal Court reserved for leaders of small and poor countries that defy the West? Not if Rwanda has its way. It wants to charge some of France's most celebrated leaders of the 1990s as collaborators in genocide.

Last week the government of Rwanda issued a damning 500-page report documenting France's participation in the 1994 Rwandan genocide. This marks a remarkable turnaround in the deeply politicized world of human rights reporting. Usually, such reporting takes the form of governments or human rights groups based in the West condemning poor countries for having political or social systems that do not meet Western standards.

Michael F
08-19-2008, 02:48 PM
I have been reading the article with attention.

The Rwandan report is the answer to the French one and it comes shortly before the Rwandan national elections !!!! This is no coincidence. It's (smart) political manouvring.

From the French point of view, the opinion is quite divided. President Mitterand (left) is blamed for the French attitude in Rwanda by the Right which is also uneasy because, the government at that time was composed of member of the Right. The French Left tries to save Mitterand's image. Meaning, both Left and Right parties tend to downplay what happened or avoid to talk about it. French press is quite silent.

In such political circunstances, in France, no politician will take up the responsability to present excuses for what happened by fear of being accused of tarnishing France's image, Mitterand's image (if he/she is from the Left), or admit the Right was manipulated by Mitterand (if he/she is from the Right).

For excuses to be made, time will be needed (Mitterand will stop being considered as an icon by the Left, and Rightwing politicians then in office will be out of the current political scene).

Quite long......

Stan
09-11-2008, 07:34 AM
It appears it's business as usual in Congo - "you can take the man out of WAWA, but you can't take the WAWA outta da man"

Indeed a shame those former Zaïrois didn't conclude a working agreement back in 2003, saving them thousands of lives and yet another refugee crisis !


The Democratic Republic of Congo army is collaborating with rebels (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7608174.stm) to mine gold and tin, instead of fighting them, says lobby group Global Witness.

Its researchers found that the two groups operated their own mines and even traded with each other.

Michael F
09-12-2008, 08:58 AM
When local and petty financial interests impose it, Congolese military will work with anybody to make money (except the Tutsis).

Corruption in the chain of command is also to be found at the top with according to EU audits, up to 1/3 of the congolese army being ghost soldiers. Meanwhile, troops on the field are unpaid, indulge in pludering to ensure incomes,...

Congolese soldiers, once paid and fed, are good troops but left to themselves, they are just a bunch of militia warriors.

Stan
09-12-2008, 09:51 AM
When local and petty financial interests impose it, Congolese military will work with anybody to make money (except the Tutsis).

Corruption in the chain of command is also to be found at the top with according to EU audits, up to 1/3 of the congolese army being ghost soldiers. Meanwhile, troops on the field are unpaid, indulge in pludering to ensure incomes,...

Congolese soldiers, once paid and fed, are good troops but left to themselves, they are just a bunch of militia warriors.

Hey Mike !
I couldn't agree with you more. Well, except for the part about being paid, fed and then behaving themselves :rolleyes:.

They've been off-setting the chain of command's salaries with ghost soldiers since the day I got there in 84. As late as 94, same old story. But, it's not just the military; there's plenty of blame for each and every Minister and the Mines/Mining has never been above board. I witnessed so much during my time in Sub-Sahara that nothing would surprise me now.

Michael F
09-12-2008, 02:33 PM
Based on my personal experience, congolese soldiers (i mean boots on the ground) are not bad troops (hard working, motivated to improve their skills, disciplined if well led,...).
With good officers and a decent salary (a situation sadly unseen since the independance), they are a match to their rwandan colleagues.

Just as a scientific experiment, I would like to see what would become of a NATO unit if unpaid, unfed, far from the families, and deployed in a remote jungle for more than 02 years without reach back/Log support (not that i wish it to happen to me).

Stan
09-12-2008, 02:52 PM
Based on my personal experience, congolese soldiers (i mean boots on the ground) are not bad troops (hard working, motivated to improve their skills, disciplined if well led,...).
With good officers and a decent salary (a situation sadly unseen since the independance), they are a match to their rwandan colleagues.

Just as a scientific experiment, I would like to see what would become of a NATO unit if unpaid, unfed, far from the families, and deployed in a remote jungle for more than 02 years without reach back/Log support (not that i wish it to happen to me).

Although I definitely see and understand your point, my decade in that region tells me differently. I've seen Belgian, Egyptian, French, German, Israel, and US professional training there. And, even in her heyday, Zairian military and guard Civil performed abysmally at home and abroad.

I have to disagree, the Rwandan Armed Forces behaved like an Army and were brutal. I have yet to see that intestinal fortitude in Zaire.

Tom Odom
09-12-2008, 03:16 PM
Michael,

I will have to go with Stan after writing 2 books on the Congo and talking with key leaders who served on the ground. The key difference between Congloese troops and Rwandan troops (meaning those in the RPA I knew) is a true sense of national identity. It simply does not exist in the Congo because the Congo remains a a region of tribal alliances and not a state. I have used military diaries from Europen advisors (military and mercenary) who say essentially the same thing.

I take your poiint on comparison of NATO units who can count on a salary and something to eat. Indeed it is a comparison I have used. The difference is the NATO unit would try to do something to fix the situation as an enity of the state. The Congolese have a well established tradition of fixing it through larceny, extortion, or mutiny.

I had this debate with my replacement in Zaire in 1994 into 1996. She continued to talk about the DSP as elite and by extension the contract portion of the DSP used to "secure" the camps in eastern Zaire. The DSP was well paid and certainly well fed by Zairian standards; the RPA brushed them aside on the march into Kinshasa.

The bottom line is that it is more about identity and purpose than it is about money.

Tom

Michael F
09-15-2008, 08:38 AM
Tom & Stan,

Indeed, Congo is a region of tribal alliance....but still there is a strong sense of nationalism. None of the current rebell movements, (except Nkunda maybe) seems to call for secession (a traumatic consequence of the Shaba events ?). They all appeal to Congolese nationalism. one of Kabila's main weakenesses is to be considered as a Foreigner by many (he is supposed to have a Rwandan father by some). All candidates in the Presidential elections were staunchely nationalists.

About the Zairian armed forces (FAZ, Gaci and DSP in logical order), these were mostly used as a security force inside the country. These were ment more to police the country/regime than they were actually defending it against external agressions. In that respect, they were "elite". Officers were recruited in function of their loyalty, not their military capacity. Like the Presidential guard today (see events in Kinshasa of March 2007), they were really good in scaring the population but unable to fight decently despite well paid.

In conclusion, FAZ, Gaci, DSP, current Presidential guard were/are paramilitary police forces more than military.
Purpose was not defense against foreign invasions, Identity was not to defend the nation but the regime and still is.

An other element of Congolese/Zairian approach to the use of military is the very "18th Century old" idea that number is more important than quality. As shown by the latest events in the Kivu (FARDC versus Nkunda) where 3.000 insurgents are just outmanouvring, 20.000 FARDC.

Once again, i consider the congolese soldier as potentially (physically, mentally) a good one but the military structure (be it FAZ, Gaci, or FARDeC)and political conception of the military (Mobutu or Kabila) is ruining those qualities (in addition to corruption and neglect).

For Congo to have a professional and decent army, it would need to address those issues which will take a new generation of politicians (The new MOD is a proto-Maoists who want the FARDC to have agricultural brigades....).

Tom Odom
09-15-2008, 02:42 PM
Tom & Stan,

Indeed, Congo is a region of tribal alliance....but still there is a strong sense of nationalism. None of the current rebell movements, (except Nkunda maybe) seems to call for secession (a traumatic consequence of the Shaba events ?)

They don't call for secession because they don't need to secede from something they are not part of. those who want to be part of it want it to be their own pie, not piece of the pie, but all of the pie. Nationalism and the Congo is a paper tiger, one crafted by Westerners seeking to make something of the region to turn a profit and members of the region seeking the same. Go back and read some of the material from the early days (1960s) when the "country" was described as Spanish Moss--roots in the air and none in the ground. The US, Belgium, France, and to a lesser degree the UK has poured money into the Congo basin and built nothing more spotty framework for a state, not a state.


About the Zairian armed forces (FAZ, Gaci and DSP in logical order), these were mostly used as a security force inside the country. These were ment more to police the country/regime than they were actually defending it against external agressions. In that respect, they were "elite". Officers were recruited in function of their loyalty, not their military capacity. Like the Presidential guard today (see events in Kinshasa of March 2007), they were really good in scaring the population but unable to fight decently despite well paid.


Sure and they remain the same. I have talked with US advisors who accompanied the FAZ on the great march into Angola. The FAZ splt when the first artillery shells impacted. As for elite, that moniker has been used since the 60s; it has never meant a damn thing other than a sense of privelege.



In conclusion, FAZ, Gaci, DSP, current Presidential guard were/are paramilitary police forces more than military. Purpose was not defense against foreign invasions, Identity was not to defend the nation but the regime and still is.

Depends on era. In the 1970s the threat was against Shaba. Others wanted to see Brazza as a threat but that was silly at best. All of that aside, we still built an army with an armor brigade, a parachute brigade, a large air force, and a brown water navy--none of which was really capable of fighting an armed opponent despite whatever threat might be out there. The truth is they were incapable of defending or attacking an armed opponent because they have nothing invested in doing so beyond what is in it for them.


An other element of Congolese/Zairian approach to the use of military is the very "18th Century old" idea that number is more important than quality. As shown by the latest events in the Kivu (FARDC versus Nkunda) where 3.000 insurgents are just outmanouvring, 20.000 FARDC.

Unless someone goes out and lines those 20,000 soldiers up at one time and counts them, I would never believe there are actually 20,000 there. Even if there are, they will not be there when it comes time to fight. The use of numbers is a time honored way to inflate payrolls.




Once again, I consider the congolese soldier as potentially (physically, mentally) a good one but the military structure (be it FAZ, Gaci, or FARDeC)and political conception of the military (Mobutu or Kabila) is ruining those qualities (in addition to corruption and neglect).

As an individual, yes. But armies are not built solely on capable individuals, they are built on societies and their values. Indeed you can build a capable army on lesser material if you have the societal will to do so.


For Congo to have a professional and decent army, it would need to address those issues which will take a new generation of politicians (The new MOD is a proto-Maoists who want the FARDC to have agricultural brigades....).

I cannot tell you how many times I have read or heard that statement--or the years those repetitive calls encompass. Nothing has changed.

Best

tom

Stan
09-15-2008, 03:01 PM
Tom & Stan,

Indeed, Congo is a region of tribal alliance....but still there is a strong sense of nationalism. None of the current rebell movements, (except Nkunda maybe) seems to call for secession (a traumatic consequence of the Shaba events ?). They all appeal to Congolese nationalism. one of Kabila's main weakenesses is to be considered as a Foreigner by many (he is supposed to have a Rwandan father by some). All candidates in the Presidential elections were staunchely nationalists.


Michael, while I admire your optimism and hope for the Congolese population, I don't share your view. As a US Military Senior Instructor and later in various DOD roles for more than a decade, I cannot wrap my hands around a clear picture of success and development in that country without severe discipline (not that the Belg accomplished that, but they came fairly close). It may actually take several generations to clear a path. I'm not just talking about the common foot soldier, but the population in general. It was just business as usual, and in order to succeed, I played along successfully (I think... Tom can chime in on that one).


About the Zairian armed forces (FAZ, Gaci and DSP in logical order), these were mostly used as a security force inside the country. These were ment more to police the country/regime than they were actually defending it against external agressions. In that respect, they were "elite". Officers were recruited in function of their loyalty, not their military capacity. Like the Presidential guard today (see events in Kinshasa of March 2007), they were really good in scaring the population but unable to fight decently despite well paid.

In conclusion, FAZ, Gaci, DSP, current Presidential guard were/are paramilitary police forces more than military.
Purpose was not defense against foreign invasions, Identity was not to defend the nation but the regime and still is.


I concur. But, keep in mind that the vast majority indeed conducted daily business in the same manner. It was the common boots on the ground (not the DSP) that pillaged, raped and plundered without the benefit of gorilla training and tactics. It was the common foot soldier that threw hand grenades at the US embassy and into the Marché. And, it it was the common boots on the ground that destroyed the very infrastructure that barely bonded Zaire together.


An other element of Congolese/Zairian approach to the use of military is the very "18th Century old" idea that number is more important than quality. As shown by the latest events in the Kivu (FARDC versus Nkunda) where 3.000 insurgents are just outmanouvring, 20.000 FARDC.


There's no secret there. Fighting and maneuvering in the Zairian bush is an Art and hiding the movements of 20,000 would have been magic (were there really 20K ?). The tactics involved came from years of watching the Zairians in action, and I dare say, to their very detriment. It will happen again, once the gold runs out and there's precious little to trade but gunfire.


Once again, i consider the congolese soldier as potentially (physically, mentally) a good one but the military structure (be it FAZ, Gaci, or FARDeC)and political conception of the military (Mobutu or Kabila) is ruining those qualities (in addition to corruption and neglect).

For Congo to have a professional and decent army, it would need to address those issues which will take a new generation of politicians (The new MOD is a proto-Maoists who want the FARDC to have agricultural brigades....).

I never had doubts about their physical abilities, but mental and moral issues with the FAZ made me want to relive my childhood in DC.

I assume you have time on the ground there, and also assume you've seen some good in those folks. I once did the very same (up and until I had an M16 in my face).

Regards, Stan

carl
09-15-2008, 10:08 PM
Tom & Stan,

Indeed, Congo is a region of tribal alliance....but still there is a strong sense of nationalism. None of the current rebell movements, (except Nkunda maybe) seems to call for secession (a traumatic consequence of the Shaba events ?). They all appeal to Congolese nationalism. one of Kabila's main weakenesses is to be considered as a Foreigner by many (he is supposed to have a Rwandan father by some). All candidates in the Presidential elections were staunchely nationalists.


To the extent I am qualified to make a judgement based upon my short time in Congo, I must agree with Micheal F in this respect. I don't know if I would call it a strong sense of nationalism, but there was a perceptible, and stated sense of nationalism. It seemed to me the people I came in contact with (a very limited sampling for sure) always had a sense of "my country". This was true in all the sections of the country I visited except maybe the Lubumbashi area.

Michael F
09-16-2008, 09:40 AM
They don't call for secession because they don't need to secede from something they are not part of. those who want to be part of it want it to be their own pie, not piece of the pie, but all of the pie. Nationalism and the Congo is a paper tiger, one crafted by Westerners seeking to make something of the region to turn a profit and members of the region seeking the same. Go back and read some of the material from the early days (1960s) when the "country" was described as Spanish Moss--roots in the air and none in the ground. The US, Belgium, France, and to a lesser degree the UK has poured money into the Congo basin and built nothing more spotty framework for a state, not a state.

This could be said of most African countries. Borders were drown according to economical and imperialistic interests. Look at Angola (Nekongo are to be found in DRC, Brazza, Gabon, Angola, Chokwe in DRC, Angola, Zambia,....), or Nigeria, Cameroun,..... At that time, there was only a few homogeneous nations in Africa (Northern Africa mainly). All those countries could so be described as Moss--roots in the air and none in the ground. Most of them have developed into nations...through nationalism, a certain elite created a common sense among the population of a territory. Be it Lumumba in DRC (still consider a martyr by ALL congolese), Sankara, Houphouet or Mandela most recently (creating a new "south African nationalism...the Rainbow nation).

African nationalisms might be new (1960's) but already have their national or continental icons/martyrs.

In DRC, both the population and the political elites are nationalists for differents (opposed) reasons:

Population: The state might have been a colonial creation but the nation appeared after (to the opposite of what happened in Europe). It has its defining icons (Lumumba), its symbols (the congo river uniting al streams of the country), its common history (struggle against colonialism, against secessionism,against foreign invasions).

Elites: Its because its elites are tribal, self-interested, and that they want the BIG PIE, that they tend to use a "nationalist" discours to gain access to the BIG NATIONAL PIE. It's often described as "Better be one of the Princes in an Empire than King in a tiny province".
They don't need the state to be efficient, they need it to embezzle its ressources. Nationalism for them is to maintain a structure that feeds them.

Elites and population are so nationalists according to me but for the population its a synonym of "peace, unity,...." (a dream) for the elites its a cow to milk but its their cow.


Unless someone goes out and lines those 20,000 soldiers up at one time and counts them, I would never believe there are actually 20,000 there. Even if there are, they will not be there when it comes time to fight. The use of numbers is a time honored way to inflate payrolls.

Actually, it was done. (article in French: http://www.jeuneafrique.com/jeune_afrique/article_jeune_afrique.asp?art_cle=LIN20048rapprtio rdr0). The total FARDC forces are approximately 100.000. About 1/4 of these are in Eastern DRC (Kivus), it makes something like 25.000. These (biometric) census were made by a EU mission and confirmed by an other census made by a Belgian/South African team. Indeed, when it comes to fight, these indulge easily in desertion.

Best
V/R

Michael

Michael F
09-16-2008, 09:46 AM
Stan, indeed i'm an optimist and you were right to assume i had some time there (not close to your long experience). Eventough i had a very similar experience (it was an AK not a M16), i still think there is light at the end of the tunnel. If you don't try to move forward, you collapse.

Tom Odom
09-16-2008, 10:47 AM
Stan, indeed i'm an optimist and you were right to assume i had some time there (not close to your long experience). Eventough i had a very similar experience (it was an AK not a M16), i still think there is light at the end of the tunnel. If you don't try to move forward, you collapse.

Michael,

Actually when I read yiour last answer I see you as a realist with rose colored glasses. The issue I have is that your optimism seemks to color what you see as the Congo's potential. The Congo has not moved forward in 50 years. To the contrary, it has regressed in a sort of one step forward, 3 steps backward dance which accelerated as Mobutu withdrew. As for Lumumba being a martyr, that maybe fashionable now. Mobutu was once more en vogue. The DRC has a sister in the Caribbean called Haiti. It too has had series of martyrs.

Yoy are correct that much of this applies to most African countries. The difference is that none have had the sustained Western government development effort that the DRC enjoyed over the past 50 years with perhaps Nigeria in its commercial/oil sector.

Collapse is the Congo's currency. Just how long in and what capacity were you in the DRC?

Tom

Michael F
09-16-2008, 12:24 PM
Michael,

Actually when I read yiour last answer I see you as a realist with rose colored glasses. The issue I have is that your optimism seemks to color what you see as the Congo's potential. The Congo has not moved forward in 50 years. To the contrary, it has regressed in a sort of one step forward, 3 steps backward dance which accelerated as Mobutu withdrew. As for Lumumba being a martyr, that maybe fashionable now. Mobutu was once more en vogue. The DRC has a sister in the Caribbean called Haiti. It too has had series of martyrs.

Yoy are correct that much of this applies to most African countries. The difference is that none have had the sustained Western government development effort that the DRC enjoyed over the past 50 years with perhaps Nigeria in its commercial/oil sector.

Collapse is the Congo's currency. Just how long in and what capacity were you in the DRC?

Tom

Tom,

I like your description of my idealism (surely come from my young age:)).
First, about progresses made in DRC, i would like to quote President Mobutu himself "Zaire was on the edge of an abyss....then we made a great step forward" :D

Joke aside, i really do think this country has potential. Like Angola, it survived a long civil war, it has a lot of ressources that already attracts a lot of investors.... Like Angola, its elite are ethnic, corrupt and like Angola, it could reemerge as one of the fastest growing economy in the world (despite the corruption).

About your last question, i will not enter into any such detail on a forum :(. I'm really sorry. My avatar should answer most of your questions (nationality, work place and branch of the military).

Stan
09-16-2008, 02:41 PM
Tom,

About your last question, i will not enter into any such detail on a forum :(. I'm really sorry. My avatar should answer most of your questions (nationality, work place and branch of the military).

I'll take a quick stab at this assuming you don't mind too much, Michael.

Former French Naval Infantry
Married to an English woman :eek:
and
A hopeless romantic in the Queens Air Force :D

How'd I do ?

Regards, Stan