Syria in 2015

[OUTLAW 09]

Lavrov on #Syria: "No further Vienna process until list of terrorists is complete." This list is pure fantasy. Done
https://youtu.be/NCv3mRQLk1U?t=1704 …

Vienna members will never succeed designating Ahrar, YPG, #Iran proxies to be terrorists. #Assad no talking point.

So Vienna 2 is just as dead as is Minsk 2 which the Russians never complied with nor ever intended to comply with so why does the West always waste time and money on these useless Russian initiatives until Russia truly indicates they will comply with their own ideas and agreements.

Obama stated in 2014 that he would judge Putin on his actions not his words and yet Obama always shallows Putin's words as the "truth".....

[OUTLAW 09]

Another Russian air strike on a school....what is with the Russian targeteers...
they cannot seem to read a map and or use an accurate GPS system....

Russia airstrikes on Rabaa El Adaweya School,#Jisr_al_Shghour
2kids killed
#Idlib #Syria Nov25
35°48'43"N 36°19'9"E

[OUTLAW 09]

So Russia wants to not escalate....??

Russia'n warplanes bombed the #Syria'n - #Turkey border crossing at #Azaz -trucks burning
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuy_5U8uaG0 …

3 #Russia'n Su-34 conduct airstrikes on northern #Aleppo suburbs near #Turkey border
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7I-EH7Jk1vk …

Heavy clashes ongoing in southern countryside of #Aleppo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YN7vyIMx0_0 …

Syria #Damascus Rebels destroyed T-72 tank in western part of #Daria suburb & killed crew

[OUTLAW 09]

FSA TOW gunners and their exploits have become so popular they now have their own Facebook page......

https://www.facebook.com/s.taawtaaw/

[OUTLAW 09]

Lavrov on #Syria: "No further Vienna process until list of terrorists is complete." This list is pure fantasy. Done
https://youtu.be/NCv3mRQLk1U?t=1704 …

Vienna members will never succeed designating Ahrar, YPG, #Iran proxies to be terrorists. #Assad no talking point.

So Vienna 2 is just as dead as is Minsk 2 which the Russians never complied with nor ever intended to comply with so why does the West always waste time and money on these useless Russian initiatives until Russia truly indicates they will comply with their own ideas and agreements.

Obama stated in 2014 that he would judge Putin on his actions not his words and yet Obama always shallows Putin's words as the "truth".....

Larvor appears to not really understand the Turks--so if this is the case just how is he going to get them to back down from their remove Assad immediately Assad demands especially now.....

FM Lavrov thinks #Turkey would ask US permission before shooting down #Russia Su-24? Suggests he does not understand Turks well.

[OUTLAW 09]

MORE Russian info warfare...from IS or their very own S400????

Russia Vesti just predicted that a civilian plane may be downed over Syria, possibly by ISIS.
https://twitter.com/SputnikInt/status/669447733565091840 …

[OUTLAW 09]

NOW even the Russian Orthodox Church is hitting the altered state of reality wall that Putin and his FM have hit long ago....

Just to keep things simple, Chief Mufti of Russia proposes Russia annex Israel and Syria.
http://echo.msk.ru/news/1665094-echo.html …
pic.twitter.com/HR3QPrO5XZ

NOW Russia Today is correcting their previous statements from yesterday---following the mantra…well he might have been in Turkish airspace after the Turks released the audio challenges to the pilot....

MORE: #RussianJet briefly entered Turkish airspace before returning to Syria & being shot
http://on.rt.com/6xew

#Russia's extremely accurate #GLONASS navigation system is now also available to civilians
pic.twitter.com/dMR5m5yfmN

[OUTLAW 09]

Erdogan says he does not want to escalate. Russia sends new missiles to Syria, which is how things escalate.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/26/world/europe/turkey-russia-jet.html …

BreakingReport
#Russia bombs #Azaz today, the heart of the Turkish-aspired "safe zone" in northern #Syria.
pic.twitter.com/jl5aBHllaO

If the #Russia media car was hit by a US tow missile as @mod_russia claim, car & people inside would be toast
pic.twitter.com/hGQt9NMn6b

[OUTLAW 09]

http://windowoneurasia2.blogspot.de/2015/11/moscow-tehran-likely-to-use-shiia-areas.html

Tuesday, November 24, 2015

Moscow, Tehran Likely to Use Shiia Areas of Saudi Arabia to Destabilize Kingdom, Pokrovskaya Says

Paul Goble


Staunton, November 24 – Both those who agree with Andrey Illarionov that Vladimir Putin’s ultimate target in the Middle East is Saudi Arabia and those who think he is wrong have ignored an important fact on the ground: The Saudi kingdom has significant Shiite populations who just happen to be where the oil and oil pipelines are, according to Elizaveta Pokrovskaya.

And given Moscow’s identification of Saudi Arabia as “a sponsor of world terrorism” and its emerging alliance with Shiite Iran, she argues that there are three facts analysts should be taking into consideration (kasparov.ru/material.php?id=56532BF70FDE5):

The first of these is that there is an important Shiite minority in Saudi Arabia, one that constitutes ten to fifteen percent of the population of the kingdom as a whole but most of whom live in the Eastern Province, where they form 80 percent of the population.

The second fact Pokrovskaya points to is that “a large part of the oil fields of Saudi Arabia are located on the territory of the Eastern Province and thus in areas which are settled by compact groups of the Shiite minority.”

And the third fact is now Shiite Iran is an ally of Russia, a development that has implications for Shiite Iran, for the Shiites of the world who look to Iran, and for Russia which would like to see oil prices go up and has already cast its lot with the Shiite-Alawaite groups backing Bashar Asad in Syria.

Does it take much to imagine what could happen if clashes between the Shiite minority of Saudi Arabia and Riyadh now break out, at a time when Sunni-Shiite tensions have taken on geopolitical shape in the re-arranging of the political map of the Greater Middle East? Or further to imagine “what would happen if Russia” with its own agenda of defeating “the sponsor of global jihad” and Iran should support ‘the lawful demands of the Shiites of Saudi Arabia’ should work in tandem?

Pokrovskaya suggests that Russia’s identification of Saudi Arabia as a global sponsor of terrorism is undercut by the fact that Israel is now, “when Iran has received open support of the US,” working toward an alliance with two of America’s “’traditional allies’” in the Middle East, Saudi Arabia and Turkey.

Israel wouldn’t be doing that if it thought that the Saudis were sponsoring terrorism, the Moscow journalist suggests, and thus under the circumstances, such an alliance “doesn’t generate any questions.” Indeed, she says, there is only one unknown: when will Moscow and Tehran dispense with Asad, someone each has reasons to want to see gone?

[OUTLAW 09]

So Russia wants to not escalate....??

Russia'n warplanes bombed the #Syria'n - #Turkey border crossing at #Azaz -trucks burning
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuy_5U8uaG0 …

3 #Russia'n Su-34 conduct airstrikes on northern #Aleppo suburbs near #Turkey border
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7I-EH7Jk1vk …

Heavy clashes ongoing in southern countryside of #Aleppo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YN7vyIMx0_0 …

Syria #Damascus Rebels destroyed T-72 tank in western part of #Daria suburb & killed crew

8 martyrs reported so far & several wounded after #Russia airstrikes on Trucks Garage in #Aazaz Trucks were carrying food
#Aleppo #Syria Nov25

Russia airstrikes on Trucks of food supply civilians,between martyrs Turkish citizens

[OUTLAW 09]

NOW even the Russian Orthodox Church is hitting the altered state of reality wall that Putin and his FM have hit long ago....

Just to keep things simple, Chief Mufti of Russia proposes Russia annex Israel and Syria.
http://echo.msk.ru/news/1665094-echo.html …
pic.twitter.com/HR3QPrO5XZ

NOW Russia Today is correcting their previous statements from yesterday---following the mantra…well he might have been in Turkish airspace after the Turks released the audio challenges to the pilot....

MORE: #RussianJet briefly entered Turkish airspace before returning to Syria & being shot
http://on.rt.com/6xew

#Russia's extremely accurate #GLONASS navigation system is now also available to civilians
pic.twitter.com/dMR5m5yfmN

We didn't even see the rocket in time for evasive maneuvers - #Su24 co-pilot
http://sptnkne.ws/ahmg

Su-24 is supposed to be equipped with the LO-82 MAK-UL infrared warning receiver...
https://twitter.com/SputnikInt/status/669529590382125058 …

[OUTLAW 09]

Potential of an epic info war battle between the Turkish trolls and Russian trolls....

Turns out AK has a pro-Erdogan troll army, and they're on the march. Them versus the Kremlin crowd should be epic. https://twitter.com/kuskuntu/status/669560300853702656 …

[OUTLAW 09]

Damn, the drunk #Russia|n pilots missed #ISIS again by dozens of miles & hit #Syria|n civilians in rebels territory
pic.twitter.com/Bsb3up2BbO

RussiaLies
This is not recent "eyewitness footage" like Anna News claimed.
Thank you, @vsaluki & @AEJKhalil
pic.twitter.com/QNBWMCgnOi

Turkey will not sit and watch how #Russia bombs the Turkmens directly at their border i think.

Turkey has increased military awareness to the highest alert in response to possible #Russia actions

[OUTLAW 09]

An AC-130 in action against fuel trucks near Abu Kamal?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXvrfmzH05M …

PHOTOS: Turkish tanks being brought to the #Syria border as tension with #Russia mounts -
pic.twitter.com/DoikCfD0X4

Kremlin propaganda on Turkey: 'The Sick Man of NATO'. 'Turkish President a bad crazy cop.'
ic.twitter.com/chgugEoZdG

[OUTLAW 09]

Although media is stating his convoy was hit and he was slightly wounded there has been no photos depicting the slight wounding which indicates to me he was seriously wounded......if not killed and they are waiting for the right time to break the news---he was recovering and then suddenly took a turn for the worse.......

This man hit the car of the notorious #Iran'inan General Qassem #Soleimani with TOW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3VskZqoqZc …

Even if the vehicle was indeed up armored the TOW does indeed create major damage.

[OUTLAW 09]

Iraqi SWAT insignia among other things found by Jabhat al-Nusra on south Aleppo countryside front

Map
Rebels attack the #Assad front in #Aleppo's Minyan area with the hell cannon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFDsyPxOayE …

New war crimes & provocations committed by #Russia|n pilots in #Syria|n #Azaz, killed 8 civilians, destroyed trucks
pic.twitter.com/NPs4Sd3mbj

Russian marine killed in #Syria yesterday was contracted from Sevastopol, Crimea.
https://twitter.com/promskladi/status/669537082524762116 …
There have been reports of a total of 21 bodies already sent to Sevastopol and a white refrig container was spotted recently on a returning Russian LST-this typical white refrig container was seen in eastern Ukraine transporting Russian KIA .

[OUTLAW 09]

Aleppo #Russia'n airstrike hit #Azaz city 4km from #Turkey border
http://wikimapia.org/#lang=de&lat=36.604366&lon=37.059631&z=13&m=b …

Hama Rebels blow up technical with 23mm gun in al-Buwaydah
http://wikimapia.org/#lang=de&lat=35.318417&lon=36.693478&z=15&m=b …

Aleppo 100+ airstrikes hit Humaymah town east of Kuweires airbase today- seems regime try to push eastwards
http://wikimapia.org/#lang=de&lat=36.167537&lon=37.648945&z=14&m=b …

20 trucks of humanitarian aid sent by Turkey to Syria were bombed by Russian AF, 7 killed!
http://www.cumhuriyet.com.tr/haber/dunya/432163/Rusya_Turk_yardim_TIR_larina_saldirdi__7_olu.html …
pic.twitter.com/1Y5nLGZkwa

[OUTLAW 09]

Latakia Rebels try to storm Nuba mountain -the location of the TOW hit of russian helicopter yesterday http://wikimapia.org/#lang=de&lat=35.688673&lon=36.084208&z=15&m=b …

After provoking Turkey into downing of SU-24, Russia now feels provoked by Turkey into starting ground ops in #Syria
pic.twitter.com/g2P8smpywy

If Kremlin propaganda is any clue to future Russian action all hell is about to break out.
http://bloom.bg/1P9Cs7t

UPDATE - 7 people reportedly killed in Russian air strikes on aid convoy in Azaz, Syria
http://sabahdai.ly/1MmuYD pic.twitter.com/CDoZlwXzV3

Typical mirroring: Russian bank sanctioned for involvement in oil trade with ISIS ->Lavrov talks re: Turkey doing it
https://twitter.com/mfa_russia/status/669578201736339456

Turkey kills Russian pilots, rebels kill another, Russia bombs humanitarian workers. I'm CERTAIN Turkey will respond https://twitter.com/Interpreter_Mag/status/669576122837921792 …
…

[OUTLAW 09]

Latakia Rebels try to storm Nuba mountain -the location of the TOW hit of russian helicopter yesterday http://wikimapia.org/#lang=de&lat=35.688673&lon=36.084208&z=15&m=b …

After provoking Turkey into downing of SU-24, Russia now feels provoked by Turkey into starting ground ops in #Syria
pic.twitter.com/g2P8smpywy

If Kremlin propaganda is any clue to future Russian action all hell is about to break out.
http://bloom.bg/1P9Cs7t

UPDATE - 7 people reportedly killed in Russian air strikes on aid convoy in Azaz, Syria
http://sabahdai.ly/1MmuYD pic.twitter.com/CDoZlwXzV3

Eliot Higgins @EliotHiggins
Video of what's claimed to be Turkish aid trucks hit at Azaz border crossing in Syria by Russian jets
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJEfPLBkqxQ …

Typical mirroring: Russian bank sanctioned for involvement in oil trade with ISIS ->Lavrov talks re: Turkey doing it
https://twitter.com/mfa_russia/status/669578201736339456

Turkey kills Russian pilots, rebels kill another, Russia bombs humanitarian workers. I'm CERTAIN Turkey will respond https://twitter.com/Interpreter_Mag/status/669576122837921792 …
…

Not Backing Down - Turkey Vows To Establish a Safe Zone In Northern Syria After Confrontation With Russia
http://bit.ly/1POZy3n

[OUTLAW 09]

Russia raining cluster bombs on Al-Qahira town in Ghab plain /northern #Hama #Syria
https://www.youtube.com/watch?

FSA completely destroy IRGC shia militia command center in al-Eis south #Aleppo with TOW.
http://youtu.be/8J88yFJ-lus

Eliot Higgins @EliotHiggins
Playlist of videos from today's bombing of trucks at Azaz border crossing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJEfPLBkqxQ&list=PLPC0Udeof3T61Y093_1Le9OAilX0Mn1lI …

[OUTLAW 09]

2 dozen #Russia'n airstrikes on southern rural #Aleppo in 1h - to stop rebel advance against #Iran backed Shiite militias

Turkey send dozens of tanks & amored vehicles to Yayladağı town at border to #Syria's #Latakia province http://wikimapia.org/#lang=de&lat=35.903304&lon=36.063051&z=14&m=b

Heavy battle now in al-Eis area in southern #Aleppo
-unclear who launched assault-
http://wikimapia.org/#lang=de&lat=35.997938&lon=36.989679&z=14&m=b …

VIDEO: #FSA 101st Infantry Division destroy #SAA vehicle in Aleppo, #Syria.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1ff1c2jv9c&feature=youtu.be …

Brig. Gen. Rasheed Bikdash (Syrian opposition) killed fighting Regime forces in North of #Latakia.
Activists said he's the highest military rank as an #SAA defected officer to be killed in this war. He was one of "Mujahidin Army" leaders.

RuAF jets today fly in squadrons & conduct raids on Syrian opposition areas far from #ISIL.
http://youtu.be/LUnNNpmvGz8

Syria Military Situation Map | Nov 25.
HD: http://goo.gl/MursGX

Footage
At least 5 trucks can be seen burnt by the #RussianAirstrikes in #Azaz.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJEfPLBkqxQ …

Putin fights back, orders bombings of Turkish border crossing and aid convoys...

Another video of the heinous attack on a Turkish aid convoy near #Azaz, north of #Aleppo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuy_5U8uaG0 …

Russian shot down pilot.......
Alleged "Capt Murakhti" spoke to Russian media outlets,didnt show face.
May be a fake person, obviously read a paper
pic.twitter.com/HOlFJHczzJ

[OUTLAW 09]

Russia still does not accept responsibility for their own actions....

MFA Russia ✔ @mfa_russia
Lavrov pointed @JohnKerry to a gross violation of memorandum of ensuring safety of combat aircraft flights in Syria
http://tass.ru/en/politics/839358 …

Reuters: U.S. sanctions businessman helping Syria government buy oil from IS
http://www.unian.info/world/1194440-reuters-us-sanctions-businessman-helping-syria-government-buy-oil-from-is.html …
pic.twitter.com/XAqkC7ZV2N

[OUTLAW 09]

It’s perfectly fine for Russia & Assad to bomb civilians, schools, hospitals, IDP camps & aid trucks far from ISIS, not war crimes at all…

[OUTLAW 09]

FSA hit regime position & bulldozer in #Latakia mountains with TOW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYz2xccm5Ls …
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTM2mjC8ZkQ …

Footage
#Russia pulverised the village of #AlQahira in the #Ghab plain today.
TOS-1 used.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSlwrlHLlnE …

[Azor]

Do you know of any specific sources referring to IS trading with other groups e.g. Russia, Syrian government, etc. i.e. not Turkey.

Also - have you heard any more non-MSM details regarding the shootdown incident?

[OUTLAW 09]

Belief was post nuclear deal Iran-US ties would improve but seems it'll be Iran-Russia ties.
http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/11/rouhani-russian-jet-turkey-shoot-down.html …
pic.twitter.com/bPKGJyVgqD

So our fear (and complains) that Obama made one of the worst possible deals ever, are true...
https://twitter.com/thekarami/status/669651755450261504 …

RussiaLies
Russian media claimed #Erdogan's son hangs out with ISIS.
In reality, those are restaurant owners.
pic.twitter.com/hJaAEysE4l

So @RT_com scored yet another #FAKE in their history of fabrications...
They interviewed some random 'pilot'.
pic.twitter.com/7g6SpTWiM7

Turkmen flee bombing in Syria's #Latakia
http://dld.bz/ebQjS

[OUTLAW 09]

Reposting this as the first two posted links were blocked by YouTube due to terms of service violations pushed by Putin/Syria/Iranian trolls.

FSA targets regime army dozer & technical in Turkman Mount with TOW
https://youtu.be/eQZ2WAW_IvU
https://youtu.be/0V4E9jq261A

Nothing violated the terms yet YouTube seems to always bend over for Russian/Syrian trolls but when social media complains YT never even responds.....so are they as an US company actually working for the Russian/Syrian/IRGC info warriors???

Think so......

[OUTLAW 09]

Footage
The #FSA, trying to defend the #Ghab plain (#Idlib) against #Assad/#Putin attacks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loI4o8szm_8 …

[OUTLAW 09]

Why did Obama deliberately slow down the supply of TOWs to FSA--KSA and Qatar are he suppliers and they only supply when the US "allows" it..

Why the slow down...........???

News
The #FSA's "Coastal Division" in #Latakia didn't have TOWs to use for 3 weeks.
Two new vids just today ...
youtube.com/watch?v=0V4E9jq261A …
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQZ2WAW_IvU …

THIS happened also back in the summer when FSA was on a roll and pushing back Assad forces--is the US intent by Obama to not kick Assad out of power despite ALL his statements to the contrary???

[OUTLAW 09]

putin bombards #isis oil installation in #syria while his friends pay them so they can repair the damage https://twitter.com/Fixer_Turkey/status/669603108775993344 …

[OUTLAW 09]

BLOG Putin/Assad needs ISIS to be able to survive.
ISIS is a Putin/Assad created monster to divide and rule.
http://ukraineatwar.blogspot.com/2015/11/russia

[OUTLAW 09]

France halts push for Syria coalition with Russia
http://www.euractiv.com/sections/global-europe/france-halts-push-syria-coalition-russia-319797 …

SO who exactly reigned in Hollande in his efforts to join Putin in Syria....?????

Too bad Hollande wrecked his credibility.
After his February 2015 all-nighter with Putin, he should have known.
https://twitter.com/A_SHEKH0VTS0V/status/669640031913553920 …

[OUTLAW 09]

Russia carried out over 40 raids against #Turkey proxy in reef #Latakia and reef #Idlib in the last 24hours.

Putin’s Russia. Do traces of KGB, FSB and GRU lead to Islamic State?
http://en.delfi.lt/central-eastern-europe/putins-russia-do-traces-of-kgb-fsb-and-gru-lead-to-islamic-state.d?id=66856642 …
Yes, well documented fact.

And Assad buying ISIS oil via "George Haswani" of HESCO compnay. So Putin accused Turkey in what they do with Assad https://twitter.com/livemoneymap/status/669815921561739264 …

[OUTLAW 09]

Russian destruction of civilian infrastructure---exactly the same tactic in the Ukraine and the West said t a single word THEN....
Syria 7 #Russia'n airstrikes hit the big water purification plant for #Aleppo at Euphrates
http://wikimapia.org/#lang=de&lat=36.186208&lon=38.011193&z=16&m=b …

Russia bombing again #Syria - #Turkey border crossing area in northern #Aleppo's #Azaz http://wikimapia.org/#lang=de&lat=36.635022&lon=37.083321&z=14&m=b …

Putin bombs Turkish aid convoy BUT demands that the Ukraine allow over 60 such convoys to enter the Ukraine totally uncontrolled--typical Russian double standards....

AND Russia is not provoking.....come on...big time...and they do not want a war....

[OUTLAW 09]

This Russian AF use of cluster munitions was carried immediately by social media BUT not picked up by MSM until this article---and one wonder why the Turks shot down the SU24?

Russia drops cluster bombs on Syrian camp
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/middleeast/article4623770.ece …

While the Obama WH tends to want to talk to Putin even after his invasion of eastern Ukraine will all that destruction--he has not said a single comment on the killing of civilians, and bombing of churches, hospitals and residential areas using dumb bombs, cluster munitions and WP....not a single word.

So maybe Turkey finally got fed up with the inaction by western countries in finally throwing out Assad.

[OUTLAW 09]

RuAF targeted @ihhinsaniyardim, convoy in Azaz. IHH is a Turkish charity with long-suspected ties to AQ.

Note that @EliotHiggins's playlist of videos from today's bombing in Azaz doesn't show secondary explosions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJEfPLBkqxQ&list=PLPC0Udeof3T61Y093_1Le9OAilX0Mn1lI …

So the Turkish aid convoy was not carrying munitions and or arms it appears..
NOT like those carried by Russian humanitarian aid convoys into eastern Ukraine which then triggers attacks every time they come in and photos have indicated Russian military supplies are in the aid convoys..

[OUTLAW 09]

Russia carried out over 40 raids against #Turkey proxy in reef #Latakia and reef #Idlib in the last 24hours.

Putin’s Russia. Do traces of KGB, FSB and GRU lead to Islamic State?
http://en.delfi.lt/central-eastern-europe/putins-russia-do-traces-of-kgb-fsb-and-gru-lead-to-islamic-state.d?id=66856642 …
Yes, well documented fact.

And Assad buying ISIS oil via "George Haswani" of HESCO compnay. So Putin accused Turkey in what they do with Assad https://twitter.com/livemoneymap/status/669815921561739264 …

Assad & #ISIL have a mafia-style deal over oilfields. ISIL controls half a dozen fields still operated by gov firms

[OUTLAW 09]

New pics of #Russia-n T-90s deployed in #Aleppo countryside #Syria
pic.twitter.com/b3CfUB6QN1

After the RuAF attacks yesterday on an aid convoy, and cluster bomb attacks on the refugee centers near the border WHAT exactly does Putin think Turkey would be doing .....??

Putin: Turkey hasn't apologized for downing Su-24 or offered compensation, appears to be purposely driving Russia-Turkey ties to a dead end.

Putin got a taste of what he has been dishing out since Crimea and did not like it.

Russia starts Total War against Turkmen minority and Turkish interests in northern #Syria.
https://twitter.com/NorthernStork/status/669840392972607488 …

Putin should stop and think exactly what those Turkish tanks on the border are there for-he does the exact same thing in the Ukraine and YET he wonders--that is total ignorance on his part and he is normally not that stupid.

RuAF continues to strikes villages all along the Turkish border--does Putin actually want the Turkish Army inside Syria---why not the Iranian Army is also there??
pic.twitter.com/O98tDaXUXI

BREAKING Turkey's Erdoğan lashes out at Russia says those claiming Turkey is buying ISIS oil should prove it, ISIS sells oil to Assad

Coming from a proAssad commenter---
For the second time since #Russia put foot in #Syria, Russian artillery is shelling #Turkmen fighters in Jabal al-Turman and reef #Latakia.
This is the 2d convoy coming from #Turkey into #Syria in the last 24h bombarded and destroyed by #Russia/n Air Force pic.twitter.com/6MLP1MqifX

[OUTLAW 09]

Syria Data on #Russia'n Tu-160 Strategic Bombers’ Pilots Is Disclosed
https://informnapalm.org/en/nov26-syria-tu160/ …
pic.twitter.com/2xv4n0M6NC

[OUTLAW 09]

New pics of #Russia-n T-90s deployed in #Aleppo countryside #Syria
pic.twitter.com/b3CfUB6QN1

After the RuAF attacks yesterday on an aid convoy, and cluster bomb attacks on the refugee centers near the border WHAT exactly does Putin think Turkey would be doing .....??

Putin: Turkey hasn't apologized for downing Su-24 or offered compensation, appears to be purposely driving Russia-Turkey ties to a dead end.

Putin got a taste of what he has been dishing out since Crimea and did not like it.

Russia starts Total War against Turkmen minority and Turkish interests in northern #Syria.
https://twitter.com/NorthernStork/status/669840392972607488 …

Putin should stop and think exactly what those Turkish tanks on the border are there for-he does the exact same thing in the Ukraine and YET he wonders--that is total ignorance on his part and he is normally not that stupid.

RuAF continues to strikes villages all along the Turkish border--does Putin actually want the Turkish Army inside Syria---why not the Iranian Army is also there??
pic.twitter.com/O98tDaXUXI

BREAKING Turkey's Erdoğan lashes out at Russia says those claiming Turkey is buying ISIS oil should prove it, ISIS sells oil to Assad

Coming from a proAssad commenter---
For the second time since #Russia put foot in #Syria, Russian artillery is shelling #Turkmen fighters in Jabal al-Turman and reef #Latakia.
This is the 2d convoy coming from #Turkey into #Syria in the last 24h bombarded and destroyed by #Russia/n Air Force pic.twitter.com/6MLP1MqifX

SO Putin is now escalating this to the point that in fact Turkish tanks will cross the border and THEN what will he do---strike a member of NATO who claims to be protecting civilians from Russian air strikes??

BOOM 39 businessmen from Turkey arrested at Agriculture Exhibition in Krasnodar and will be deported from Russia https://twitter.com/pchikov/status/669841961520623616 …

Breaking AFP: Erdogan challenged Russia to prove that Turkey is purchasing oil from the IS group.
http://www.naharnet.com

.@EdamOrg 's Ulgen:
Putin expecting formal apology is a bad sign. No apology will be issued. Escalation possible. https://twitter.com/sinanulgen1/status/669842965444083713 …

Erdogan is defiant and far from an apologetic tone in his live speech. Putin's demand for an apology may linger longer.

NOW Turkish response is getting to the heart of the Russians being in Syria....calling a spade a spade now...Putin should learn to back off and stop talking

ANADOLU AGENCY (ENG) ✔ @anadoluagency
Erdogan says purpose of those attacking only moderate opposition in Syria in the name of ‘anti-Daesh fight’ obvious
pic.twitter.com/5AkY9FcZfW

President @RT_Erdogan on downed jet: "Turkey would have to respond the same way if another violation were to happen today."

[OUTLAW 09]

Just when one thinks Russians have reached the height of their altered state of reality---they reach even a higher level it seems......after the ROC stated Russia should annex Syria and Israel THEN this today.......

'Goodwill gesture': #Russia'n MPs want #Turkey to give #HagiaSophia back to Orthodox church
http://belsat.eu/en/news/goodwill-gesture-russian-mps-want-turkey-to-give-hagia-sophia-back-to-orthodox-church/ …
pic.twitter.com/jinooAE8Bm

AND THEN this.......
Russian TV:
We've been having wars with #Turkey for over 400 yrs - and remember 1507, when Crimean Tatars invaded?
pic.twitter.com/gKs8oMAeIU

Russia24 has turned into a history channel of Russo-Turkish conflicts
pic.twitter.com/qRT2ytLnpV

[OUTLAW 09]

I had posted here a week or so ago a long list of Russian ground units involved inside Syria and there was also in my mind the question --how accurate are the listings....appears quite accurate.

This is from an social media open source analysis on the killing of a Russian Spetsnaz sniper from the Russian SF sniper group sent to Syria and which was on the listing. in their search for info about the SF sniper they also heard that one other had been killed and a third WIA.

Really well worth reading the entire analysis.........one of the best I have seen worked up on Spetsnaz KIAs.

Between the lines 2 KIAs and 1 WIA from a Spetsnaz sniper group indicates that Russian troops are indeed taking relatively heavy loses as they are suppose to be fighting rag tag Islamists.

https://citeam.org/russian-specoperations-servicemen-killed-in-syria/

Russian Special Operations Forces servicemen killed in Syria

26.11.2015Расследования, СирияReggae Mortis

Читать этот пост на русском языке


Background

For many years, Russia’s Ministry of Defense has been discussing the creation of a separate Special Operations Force (SOF). The necessity of such a separate command structure was proven by experience of other wars and counter-terrorist operations. One of the purposes of the SOF’s creation was uniting Special Forces units under one command structure. Before the SOF emerged as a full-fledged structure, Spetsnaz brigades were subordinate to military district commanders, while the Main Intelligence Directorate (GRU) set the tasks for Spetsnaz units without actually commanding the brigade. The SOF were mostly based on a similar structure in the US Armed Forces — United States Special Operations Command (USSOCOM or SOCOM).


Russian Special Operations Forces servicemen killed in Syria

26.11.2015Расследования, СирияReggae Mortis

Читать этот пост на русском языке

Background

For many years, Russia’s Ministry of Defense has been discussing the creation of a separate Special Operations Force (SOF). The necessity of such a separate command structure was proven by experience of other wars and counter-terrorist operations. One of the purposes of the SOF’s creation was uniting Special Forces units under one command structure. Before the SOF emerged as a full-fledged structure, Spetsnaz brigades were subordinate to military district commanders, while the Main Intelligence Directorate (GRU) set the tasks for Spetsnaz units without actually commanding the brigade. The SOF were mostly based on a similar structure in the US Armed Forces — United States Special Operations Command (USSOCOM or SOCOM).

The first SOF unit was "Senezh" Special operations center in Solnechnogorsk. Later a similar unit was created in Kubinka — special forces center "Kubinka-2". Due to reports by various media, the new structured didn’t develop further until Sergey Shoigu replaced Anatoliy Serdyukov as Russia’s Defense minister. Under Shoigu, the situation changed radically, and in April 2013 journalists were invited to SOF exercises in the Caucasus. The Senezh center is SOF’s main combat unit. The Special Operations Forces are shrouded in even more secrecy than regular Spetsnaz brigades. They are one of the most secret and elite units of Russia’s Ministry of Defense. The Senezh center boasts the most modern weapons, both Russian and foreign-made.

An "overheard" VK.com post

Several days ago, while monitoring social networks, our team found a group on VK.com (Russian Facebook-like website), called "Overheard in Paltso", where a post told about the death of a certain Fedor Zhuravlev. In the comments, the post’s author said Fedor was killed in Syria:

The first SOF unit was "Senezh" Special operations center in Solnechnogorsk. Later a similar unit was created in Kubinka — special forces center "Kubinka-2". Due to reports by various media, the new structured didn’t develop further until Sergey Shoigu replaced Anatoliy Serdyukov as Russia’s Defense minister. Under Shoigu, the situation changed radically, and in April 2013 journalists were invited to SOF exercises in the Caucasus. The Senezh center is SOF’s main combat unit. The Special Operations Forces are shrouded in even more secrecy than regular Spetsnaz brigades. They are one of the most secret and elite units of Russia’s Ministry of Defense. The Senezh center boasts the most modern weapons, both Russian and foreign-made.

An "overheard" VK.com post

Several days ago, while monitoring social networks, our team found a group on VK.com (Russian Facebook-like website), called "Overheard in Paltso", where a post told about the death of a certain Fedor Zhuravlev. In the comments, the post’s author said Fedor was killed in Syria:

Some time later, in the comments to another post in this group, another person said Zhuravlev was killed in Syria. Another commenter wrote that Fedor was killed in Dagestan in the Russian North Caucasus (we will consider this version later), but he was corrected by the first post’s author, who once again said Fedor was killed in Syria.

As it is customary with our team, we used assumed identities and fake profiles to establish contacts with the posters and commenters. We asked for Fedor’s VK.com and OK.com profiles (to check whether he indeed was an acting Russian serviceman and whether he’d been sent to Syria):

We were told that the circumstances of his death were kept secret.
Then we asked which forces the deceased served in:

We were told Fedor Zhuravlev served in the GRU (Main Intelligence Directorate) Spetsnaz as late as summer 2014.
We also asked where was the information on him being killed in Syria coming from:

We were told that "everyone" in the village believed Fedor Zhuravlev was killed in Syria.

The person on the screenshots above is a friend of the deceased, a quite removed one, since he told they never mer after summer 2014. Our nicknames are obscured by green, the deceased’s friend is obscured by black.

After that we talked to another friend of the deceased. He told us Fedor Zhuravlev was his best friend. We found out the deceased’s patronymic (Vladimirovich), confirmed his age (27) and the facts that he had a brother called Alexander, a wife, and a daughter. The other friend also confirmed that Fedor was killed in Syria:

Continued.....


Now MSM picks up on the story largely generated and confirmed via social media.......

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/26/us-russia-military-death-idUSKBN0TF18Y20151126#wUProuqHTKH4byTq.97

[OUTLAW 09]

Deployed s-400 radars were spotted on Nov,12 pic.twitter.com/qAAqsJsWrE
http://syria.liveuamap.com/en/2015/12-november-alleged-s400-complex-radar-was-spotted-at-the …

For one Azaz is an extremely strategic city for the opposition as it is a critical node along the #Turkey-Aleppo road #Syria

Syrian rebels say Russian airstrike hit gathering point for supplies coming from Turkey in town of Azaz. Three killed, 10 trucks destroyed.

Russia is systematically targeting opposition-controlled border points with #Turkey, including the Bab al-Hawa & Bab al-Salameh crossings.

[OUTLAW 09]

I had posted here a week or so ago a long list of Russian ground units involved inside Syria and there was also in my mind the question --how accurate are the listings....appears quite accurate.

This is from an social media open source analysis on the killing of a Russian Spetsnaz sniper from the Russian SF sniper group sent to Syria and which was on the listing. in their search for info about the SF sniper they also heard that one other had been killed and a third WIA.

Really well worth reading the entire analysis.........one of the best I have seen worked up on Spetsnaz KIAs.

Between the lines 2 KIAs and 1 WIA from a Spetsnaz sniper group indicates that Russian troops are indeed taking relatively heavy loses as they are suppose to be fighting rag tag Islamists.

https://citeam.org/russian-specoperations-servicemen-killed-in-syria/

Russian Special Operations Forces servicemen killed in Syria

26.11.2015Расследования, СирияReggae Mortis

Читать этот пост на русском языке



Now MSM picks up on the story largely generated and confirmed via social media.......
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/26/us-russia-military-death-idUSKBN0TF18Y20151126#wUProuqHTKH4byTq.97

Detailing Russian Forces (Land, Air, Naval & Transport) in #Syria https://rusi.org/publication/rusi-defence-systems/detailing-russian-forces-syria …
by @RUSI_org h/t @CITeam_en

[OUTLAW 09]

SO Putin is now escalating this to the point that in fact Turkish tanks will cross the border and THEN what will he do---strike a member of NATO who claims to be protecting civilians from Russian air strikes??

BOOM 39 businessmen from Turkey arrested at Agriculture Exhibition in Krasnodar and will be deported from Russia https://twitter.com/pchikov/status/669841961520623616 …

Breaking AFP: Erdogan challenged Russia to prove that Turkey is purchasing oil from the IS group.
http://www.naharnet.com

.@EdamOrg 's Ulgen:
Putin expecting formal apology is a bad sign. No apology will be issued. Escalation possible. https://twitter.com/sinanulgen1/status/669842965444083713 …

Erdogan is defiant and far from an apologetic tone in his live speech. Putin's demand for an apology may linger longer.

NOW Turkish response is getting to the heart of the Russians being in Syria....calling a spade a spade now...Putin should learn to back off and stop talking

ANADOLU AGENCY (ENG) ✔ @anadoluagency
Erdogan says purpose of those attacking only moderate opposition in Syria in the name of ‘anti-Daesh fight’ obvious
pic.twitter.com/5AkY9FcZfW

President @RT_Erdogan on downed jet: "Turkey would have to respond the same way if another violation were to happen today."

Turkey’s #Erdogan says Assad and his backers are source of funding, weaponry for ISIS
http://isis.liveuamap.com/en/2015/26-november-turkeys-erdogan-says-assad-and-his-backers-are …
via @AlArabiya_Eng

Russian airstrikes targeting Bab al-Hawa border-crossing, used by the opposition. No IS for 100 miles. https://twitter.com/markito0171/status/669828894111997952 …

Erdoğan: Suggestions of cancellation of projects following downing of Russian jet are emotional & unfitting of politicians -

Russia has $20bn contract for Turkey’s first nuclear power plant, and the country is Gazprom’s 2nd largest export customer. Just noting.

[OUTLAW 09]

I often use the term "Russian altered state of reality" BUT I am not sure what the next level should be BUT Russians have already reached that level......

Russian TV pundit to Erdogan: "Constantinople is our city! We are the descendants of great Byzantium! We must take everything we can!"

[OUTLAW 09]

Did not take that long.......

Russia|n anti-aircraft missiles S-400 arrived in #Syria|n #Hmeymim Air Base, #Latakia
pic.twitter.com/ipTEKpQJyY

SAM's where placed back in September weeks before the Ruaf even began they're aircampaign. tensions will escalate. https://twitter.com/Liveuamap/status/669861077367308288 …

Radars seen on 12 Nov but had been also seen on the first day of the arrival of Russian aircraft into Syria.

[OUTLAW 09]

MORE Russian air strikes on civilians and schools.......

Russians Targeted a school and civilian homes in Mart Numan City about an hour ago, 4 martyrs and tens of wounded
pic.twitter.com/CX9Drd0c8P

[OUTLAW 09]

NOT so sure Putin understands Turkey is serious..........

Turkey moves 20 tanks to its border and sends 18 fighter jets on patrol
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/turkey-moves-20-tanks-border-6903087 …

[OUTLAW 09]

Turkey’s #Erdogan says Assad and his backers are source of funding, weaponry for ISIS
http://isis.liveuamap.com/en/2015/26-november-turkeys-erdogan-says-assad-and-his-backers-are …
via @AlArabiya_Eng

Russian airstrikes targeting Bab al-Hawa border-crossing, used by the opposition. No IS for 100 miles. https://twitter.com/markito0171/status/669828894111997952 …

Erdoğan: Suggestions of cancellation of projects following downing of Russian jet are emotional & unfitting of politicians -

Russia has $20bn contract for Turkey’s first nuclear power plant, and the country is Gazprom’s 2nd largest export customer. Just noting.

Russia is escalating.....now taking hostages.....
Russia has detained 50 Turkish businessmen traveling on tourist visas & sent them to a detention camp for 10 days http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkish-businessmen-detained-in-russia-amid-strained-ties-.aspx?pageID=238&nID=91717&NewsCatID=345 …

[OUTLAW 09]

Another day of "altered state of reality" statements from the Russian FM.....

One of the current Russian myths/lies that is cruising on Russian troll network...total lie......

MFA Russia ✔ @mfa_russia
#Zakharova: The US should take note of the reported arrest of #ISIS men in Kuwait who allegedly bought MANPADS in #Ukraine

[OUTLAW 09]

NOT so sure Putin understands Turkey is serious..........

Turkey moves 20 tanks to its border and sends 18 fighter jets on patrol
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/turkey-moves-20-tanks-border-6903087 …

Turkish Pres. Erdogan tells @CNN that it is Russia, not Turkey that should apologize over shoot down of Russian jet: http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/26/middleeast/syria-turkey-russia-warplane-shot-down/index.html?sr=twCNN112615syria-turkey-russia-warplane-shot-down/0202PMVODtopLink&linkId=19082677 …

[OUTLAW 09]

Russia airstrike on School in the residential area of #Maarat_al_Nouman
#Idlib #Syria Nov26
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_s0bkT9l7A … pic.twitter.com/zE4SZyyKAb

RuAF attacked a school and a marketplace in Ma'rrat al-Numan #Idlib today.
https://youtu.be/V_s0bkT9l7A

Rumor control.........
There are lots of rumors that #Russia supply manpads to kurdish #YPG/#PKK forces - to shot down #Turkey warplanes
-will see if true

Ahrar al-Sham shelling Russian airbase #Hmymim in rural #Latakia with 130 mm.

Finally visual evidence.
Some of the #Russian-hit trucks and warehouses in #Azaz WERE loaded with food.

[OUTLAW 09]

Another TOW ambush another killed commander...

FSA Fursan al-Haq says killed commander of al-Nujaba Iraqi militia & sr. Hezbollah leader with TOW S #Aleppo y'day.
yallasouriya.wordpress.com/2015/11/26/syriafsa-fursan-al-haq-brigade-killed-ytday-2-halesh-and-iraki-commanders-in-aleppo/ …

Clashes reported between #FSA #ShamFront & allies vs #IS at Al-Bel, Sandaf & Kafrah farms in north #Aleppo countryside

Syrian Rebels kill Assad regime commander Louay Mohamed Yaqoub in Deraa he's originally from Latakia

[OUTLAW 09]

[B]Ahrar al-Sham shelling Russian airbase #Hmymim in rural #Latakia with 130 mm.


Apparently Al Hamamin airbase was shelled in Syria where Russian troops were deployed. No word on the number of casualties at the moment

Damn just heard a rumour if true then there are plenty of new Russian casualties on the ground in Syria.

[OUTLAW 09]

Turkey is smart & won't pass #USA & #Russia another 1991 #Kuwait setup. They'll impose a Safe Zone in #Syria whether they like it or not..

Rebels said they will use force to retake the village unless YPG / JaTh leave: Maryamin, Inab, Qanbrya, Mrash, Shawaghirah, Tanab, Kashtaar.

Coalition planes drop leaflets to civilians in Deir-ez-Zour warning them to stay away from oil fields. https://twitter.com/DeirEzzor24/status/669848573853491200 …

[OUTLAW 09]

Russian MoD announcement on the suspension of all military channels of communication with Turkey https://twitter.com/mod_russia/status/669918481240956928 …

Russian military cutting all coop w/ #Turkey military, incl. hot line set up to avoid accidents during Russian airstrikes in Syria.

Of course: Russian MOD says audio of Turkish pilot's warning to Su-24 is "fake"
http://www.interfax.ru/world/481808
AND naturally we all know Russia has never lied in their takeover of Crimea, their invasion of eastern Ukraine and their shot down of MH17

Let's escalate. Things weren't enough complicated yet
https://twitter.com/mfa_russia/status/669917289874120705 …
It sounds all a get out of Dodge while you can messaging.......

Russia deployed S-400 missiles to #Latakia to fend of Turkish fighter jets...
Latakia is in range of the Turkish Army's missile artillery.

Russian exports to Turkey: $25 billion
Turkish exports to Russia: $6 billion

[AmericanPride]

Outlaw,

This thread reads like your own personal blog. It's quite entertaining really.

Anyway, we can probably write off the U.S. objective of removing Assad from power now that Russia is directly involved in the conflict. If he steps down, it will be at the behest of his Russian and Iranian benefactors who see that concession to Washington as valuable for some other gain. I doubt that this will be a repeat of the Russo-Japanese War or Afghanistan for the Russians though there is the risk of entanglement now for them. The question for the U.S. is how to make the Russian victory as costly as possible.

[CrowBat]

[I]Apparently Al Hamamin airbase...It's Hmemmem, just that, no 'al-' in front of it.

And this was already the fifth attack of that kind launched by Ahrar.

The first caused Russians to 'disperse' their aircraft down the eastern runway.

The second didn't hit anything.

Nothing is known about results of the third and fourth attack, one of which was undertaken by BM-21s, and one by M54 cannon (130mm).

Whatever... Russians have meanwhile constructed several blast pens and dispersal sites, so that their aircraft are not that tightly bunched together like earlier. Underground fuel- and ammo depots have been constructed too.

[davidbfpo]

Even allowing for diplomacy and the Montreux Treaty on passage through the Dardenelles, I do wonder if Turkey will suddenly discover obstacles and restrict the flow of Russian ships? That would make logistic support for their expedition rather demanding on airlift capacity.

Wiki's summary:
The Montreux (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreux) Convention Regarding the Regime of the Straits is a 1936 agreement that gives Turkey (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey) control over the Bosporus Straits (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosporus) and the Dardanelles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dardanelles) and regulates the transit of naval warships. The Convention gives Turkey full control over the Straits and guarantees the free passage of civilian vessels in peacetime. It restricts the passage of naval ships not belonging to Black Sea states. The terms of the convention have been the source of controversy over the years, most notably concerning the Soviet Union (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union)'s military access to the Mediterranean Sea (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_Sea).

[OUTLAW 09]

Why is it that when these writers are no longer part of the administration they tend to speak truth to power.............she was the DoD expert of Russia and especially Putin AN absolutely ignored by the Obama WH and NSC....ND when she spoke power to truth Obama did not like it..

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/11/isil-syria-putin-nato-airspace-213393

Putin Is Testing Our Resolve

A former senior Pentagon adviser says recent Russian incursions into NATO airspace are evidence of the Kremlin’s growing aggressiveness.

By Evelyn Farkas
November 24, 2015


If the Turkish military shoot-down of a Russian SU-24 fighter aircraft is a “stab in the back,” as President Vladimir Putin characterized it on Tuesday, then the knife wound came after some very loud footsteps from behind and shouts of “Here I come!” Following recent Russian incursions into Turkish airspace, in other words, no one should be surprised.

On October 3 and 4, Russian fighter jets first veered into Turkish airspace. Both incursions were met with sharp warnings from Ankara, as well as from NATO headquarters and Washington. In one official explanation, the Russian military blamed weather conditions—which an Internet search demonstrated were excellent. And Tuesday, according to the Turkish government, the Russian pilots were warned 10 times before their plane was dispatched to the ground.

We may never learn definitively whether the pilots strayed into Turkish airspace accidentally or whether this incursion was a test of Turkish and NATO resolve. But considering Putin’s past behavior, we should go on the assumption that it is the latter.

In the end, it is Russia that is wielding the knife here—shredding international law and conventions that have held firm for decades. The hard cold truth is that the sum of Russia’s agenda, not just in Syria but globally, runs counter to the values and interests of the United States, its allies and partners. Russia’s challenge is so fundamental to the international system, to democracy and free market capitalism that we cannot allow the Kremlin’s policy to succeed in Syria or elsewhere.

As regrettable as it is to go back, in a sense, to a Cold War-type confrontation, it will be increasingly difficult not to do so as long as Russia continues on its current course. As a former senior State Department official said to me recently, “The only thing worse than bilateral escalation is unilateral escalation.” If we fail to counter Russia’s actions, deterring and responding to Russia will become more difficult over time and we will be forced to do so having already lost the initiative. For this reason, even while the coalition expresses genuine interest in cooperating with Russia to fight ISIL, Turkey’s shoot-down of the Russian SU-24 makes sense.

The problem we in the West have, apart from ISIL, is Russia. While we must do everything to avoid miscalculation or conflict with the Russia, we must demonstrate resolve on small probes or even what may be accidental air incursions. If we don’t do so, in an excess of caution, the result could well be that we only embolden Russia. Let’s keep the stakes low.

The confrontation between Turkey and Russia comes at a time when Putin is already testing transatlantic unity over Syria policy by attempting to forge a new coalition with France to respond to the ISIL attacks specifically on Paris and on the Russian Metrojet airliner over the Sinai. It remains to be seen what action Putin may take to retaliate against Turkey for the downing of the aircraft. There are potential targets; the two countries have strong trade and economic ties, with Turkey providing a major tourist destination for Russians and Russia providing over half of Turkey’s natural gas. But relations were already soured because of the fundamental difference between Russia and the U.S.-led coalition’s policy toward Syria.

In Syria, Russia’s main objective—despite occasional official comments indicating that Moscow is not wedded to Bashar Assad per se, or to his staying in power indefinitely—is to keep Assad in power. The one indicator of this intent is Russian military action; the fact is, Russian airstrikes have mainly targeted Syrian opposition forces, not ISIL. Meanwhile, try as Putin might to fracture coalition or NATO unity, the United States, Turkey and France are adamant that the dictator who used chemical weapons and barrel bombs against his citizens be removed.

So even if Russia starts targeting ISIL increasingly as part of bilateral cooperation with France or an arrangement with the U.S.-led coalition, we’ll still have a big gap in overall objectives, as President Barack Obama made clear at his news conference with French President François Hollande on Tuesday. "We've got a coalition: 65 countries," Obama said. "Russia right now is a coalition of two: Iran and Russia supporting Assad." The world and the Syrian people are crying for a political compromise, but an arrangement acceptable to Russia and the coalition, as well as Syrian opposition leaders, Saudi Arabia and Iran, is not in sight.

The chief obstacle, again, is Russia.

Russia’s objectives in Syria are driven by Putin’s overall political objectives. Those include: 1) Retaining his position as the leader of the Russian Federation and preserving the autocratic political system and mafia-style crony economy that together comprise “Putinism”; 2) restoring Russia’s status as a great power, prospering economically and militarily and capable of not only balancing but checking U.S. and Western power; 3) rewriting the international rules and norms to prevent interventions in sovereign affairs of states to protect its citizens; 4) maintaining political control of Russia’s geographical periphery (Europe/Eurasia and Central Asia) to ensure economic access and to provide a geopolitical buffer zone against purported NATO encirclement; and 5) breaking NATO, the European Union and transatlantic unity.

To achieve these objectives, Russia has invaded neighboring countries, occupied their territory, and funded NGOs and political parties not only in its periphery but also in NATO countries. It has exerted economic pressure through its near monopoly of oil and gas supply and through its corrupt ties with elites worldwide. And it has used lies and propaganda to influence ethnic Russian populations and the international community and to confuse policy debates. In Syria, as in Ukraine, military force is being used to set the diplomatic table; much as Slobodan Milosevic did in the 1990s during the war in Bosnia, the map created by the fighting will determine the new baselines for negotiations.

While the United States and its allies intervene to try to save Syria’s citizens from further abuse from their dictator, the Russian government intervenes to save the ruthless leader. True, we can forge a temporary alliance with Russia against ISIL, and we should. Retribution should rain down, and ISIL should be eliminated. This is one important element of any Syrian settlement. But let’s not lose sight of the fact that Assad can never be regarded as a legitimate leader again.

Meanwhile, Russia is not finished in Ukraine; its military equipment and forces in Ukraine and over the border can and may be moved into renewed action. It is not finished in Georgia or Moldova, and if Belarus continues to resist the new base Moscow wants to build there, what will happen next? Kremlin officials are making noises about Afghanistan and putting pressure on the Central Asian states. Putin likes to surprise his opponents and keep them off balance. If Russia’s Syria intervention stalls, the temptation to strike again elsewhere will be that much greater.

So we must look up from Syria and beyond Syria and forge a consistent policy that prioritizes political, economic and military assistance to allies and partners globally in the face of Russian pressure. Senior U.S. officials must be present in the vulnerable Russian periphery—as Secretary of State John Kerry was recently (in Central Asia). And diplomats must focus again on the former Yugoslavia, where Russia is attempting to take advantage of existing political tensions to undermine the existing central governments and integration with NATO and the EU. In the NATO context, we must continue to build our ability to deter Russia militarily, and we must provide assistance to allies to break their dependence on Russian military hardware. The Defense Department should also continue to provide training for territorial defense to Ukraine, but also to Georgia and Moldova. Defensive lethal assistance (mainly anti-tank weapons) should be provided to those countries so they have a chance at deterring the larger, more ready Russian forces. We must also devise additional economic means to pressure Russia. We cannot take for granted the low oil prices that have fortuitously assisted us so far. At some point, the price of oil will increase.

If the MH-17 tragedy in 2014, where Russian separatists shot down a commercial airliner, didn’t demonstrate the fact that Russia’s challenge is international, Moscow’s actions in Syria have. We must continue to work with the international community—non-transatlantic allies and partners, including Japan, Israel, Australia and Malaysia, among others—to hold Russia accountable for the MH-17 crash, the violation of the Budapest memorandum, which offered political assurances to Ukraine in exchange for giving up its nuclear weapons, and for failing to implement the Minsk agreements in Ukraine. Finally, Russia must answer for its violations of and poor compliance with arms control agreements—first and foremost the INF Treaty—and come into compliance or face consequences.

We need to steel ourselves and outmaneuver Moscow so that U.S. national security interests and objectives prevail.

[OUTLAW 09]

Seems kurdish #YPG change its politics- try to expand & gain new territory instead of only defend it
-Imperialism-

Russian (#RuAF) targeted Rebels position on the outskirts of Azaz and Al-Malikiyah. Russia supporting #YPG.
https://twitter.com/aboferasalhalab/status/669930721914568704 ….

Syria Kurdish #YPG try to storm #FSA held arab villages in northern #Aleppo
When #Assad won the war he also finished their independence

Heavy clashes btw FSA and YPG at the Castello Road,with YPG shelling the road

[OUTLAW 09]

The U.S. air campaign in Syria is suspiciously impressive at not killing civilians, writes @MicahZenko
http://atfp.co/1OhFyoG

[OUTLAW 09]

Really worth listening to this commenter---he states much of what we here at SWJ have also said ie Robert Jones and what the West does not want to hear about the ME.

Not sure the WH fully understands this....

Iyad El-Baghdadi ‏@iyad_elbaghdadi · 29 Oct 2014
The official video of my speech at @OsloFF is out, captioned in English & Arabic. Please watch, comment, and share:
http://bit.ly/1tP86g0

[OUTLAW 09]

Seems kurdish #YPG change its politics- try to expand & gain new territory instead of only defend it
-Imperialism-

Russian (#RuAF) targeted Rebels position on the outskirts of Azaz and Al-Malikiyah. Russia supporting #YPG.
https://twitter.com/aboferasalhalab/status/669930721914568704 ….

Syria Kurdish #YPG try to storm #FSA held arab villages in northern #Aleppo
When #Assad won the war he also finished their independence

Heavy clashes btw FSA and YPG at the Castello Road,with YPG shelling the road

This COULD create strife between Turkey and the US (which Russia possibly hopes for) or it could spell the end of the YPG...

Aleppo
#ISIL attack from the east, #YPG & Marrouf militia from the west backed by Russians & Regime & IRGC Shia militia from the south..

[OUTLAW 09]

CIT (en) @CITeam_en

Russian jet and helicopter lost in Syria: an open-source analysis
https://citeam.org/russian-jet-and-helicopter-lost-in-syria-an-open-source-analysis/ …
pic.twitter.com/wonqAVl5ch

[OUTLAW 09]

Erdogan officially requested a meeting with Putin in Paris on November 30. Will Putin agree?

Putin has not returned my call’, Turkey's Erdogan tells FRANCE 24
http://f24.my/1Nap2Sg
pic.twitter.com/dRv4Inl1N6

Russia calling the kettle black is coming back to haunt them......
Russian state TV reports that truculent Turkish media is whipping up nationalist fervor and presenting a biased view

AND Russian media is not biased against the Ukraine and anti Assad opposition??

While riveted by the aerial flashpoint between Russia & Turkey, let's not forget Putin's subs have been trespassing in Nordic & NATO waters.

[OUTLAW 09]

From Russian MoD.....
SYRIA #FOOTAGE S-400 AA missile system deployed at #Hmeymim airbase
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RCLOfC3FfM …

[OUTLAW 09]

Interesting to watch........

Ahrar Al Sham docu exposing ISIS w/ ENG subs
http://youtu.be/QDyWFLU2d8M

[Bill Moore]

The Latest: Putin: Russia to cooperate with US-led coalition: http://bigstory.ap.org/ce71e672811c41d8b36840ca742b858c&utm_source=android_app&utm_medium=mail&utm_campaign=share

[OUTLAW 09]

Outlaw,

This thread reads like your own personal blog. It's quite entertaining really.

Anyway, we can probably write off the U.S. objective of removing Assad from power now that Russia is directly involved in the conflict. If he steps down, it will be at the behest of his Russian and Iranian benefactors who see that concession to Washington as valuable for some other gain. I doubt that this will be a repeat of the Russo-Japanese War or Afghanistan for the Russians though there is the risk of entanglement now for them. The question for the U.S. is how to make the Russian victory as costly as possible.

Thanks for the comments....I started doing this on the Ukraine thread and learned that there was not a sole source location for reading as much as one could read about events and that from multiple sources......have actually learned quite a lot from doing it...I attempt to take articles from multiple sources to expand one's own thinking on the subject following the mantra the more one knows the better one can make a thoughtful decision.

I also have a job/company that gives me the time while awaiting internet test results that needs to be filled when working long hours some way into the early mornings.

Along the way I stumbled onto the total failure of this administration in the area of foreign policy and their lack of understanding political warfare within UW and finally along the way was able to tie my own years of UW experience from the 60/70s back into the current timeframe.

BTW---I take from a select number of posters that I know they triple check their sources but do not post their accounts and or give them credits simply out of OPSEC reasons as the info war is being fought right now in multiple different ways to including aggressive spamming and hacking. Sometimes I will post their accounts once I know they are prepared for a troll invasion--some of the troll attacks lately are coupled with personal threats.

I also view these threads as a counter info war effort--

When both events--- the Ukraine and Syria slack off then I will slow down and finish the threads.

Again thanks for the comments......

[OUTLAW 09]

Rebels retaken Zahia peak in Turkman Mount for the 2nd time after lost to regime army y'day and seized 2 tanks, 14.5 mm Gun and munition.

With Russian air cover, Kurdish #YPG & Jaysh al-Thuwar enters Malikia village north of #Aleppo.

Syrian border-crossing staff worried they might be RuAF next target.

[OUTLAW 09]

It's Hmemmem, just that, no 'al-' in front of it.

And this was already the fifth attack of that kind launched by Ahrar.

The first caused Russians to 'disperse' their aircraft down the eastern runway.

The second didn't hit anything.

Nothing is known about results of the third and fourth attack, one of which was undertaken by BM-21s, and one by M54 cannon (130mm).

Whatever... Russians have meanwhile constructed several blast pens and dispersal sites, so that their aircraft are not that tightly bunched together like earlier. Underground fuel- and ammo depots have been constructed too.

CB--thanks for the spelling assistance--sometimes I do wonder just which way some names are spelled....secondly if the Russians are doing major airfield construction then their move into Syria was not a "sudden decision"...

[OUTLAW 09]

Outlaw,

This thread reads like your own personal blog. It's quite entertaining really.

Anyway, we can probably write off the U.S. objective of removing Assad from power now that Russia is directly involved in the conflict. If he steps down, it will be at the behest of his Russian and Iranian benefactors who see that concession to Washington as valuable for some other gain. I doubt that this will be a repeat of the Russo-Japanese War or Afghanistan for the Russians though there is the risk of entanglement now for them. The question for the U.S. is how to make the Russian victory as costly as possible.

AP--one of the goals that I focus on is setting the record straight info wise...ie yesterday Putin stated for the world that only the SAA is capable of defeating IS--what he did not tell the world is that the Syria Arab Army is neither Syrian nor Arab--since 2012 the SAA basically been Shia with units from the IRGC, Hezbollah and Iraqi Shia militia fighting Syrian Sunnis.

What MSM has provided a complete listing of the 14 Iraqi Shia militias fighting in Syria right now, what MSM has carried the constant reporting on dead IRGC and Hezbollah senior officers being killed in Syrian fighting, and just how many MSM reports have you seen in the fact state that their are 12 different Shia populated countries fighting in Syria including Afgans.

What MSM reporting has carried articles on the fact that US military equipment has been issued to Iraqi Shia militias, that Russia has flown them to Syria to be blown up by US TOWs---great use of US taxpayers money---so the core question-- are we as US citizens actually supporting Shia terrorist organizations that killed US personnel until 2010???

While we discuss who is and or is not "moderate" how much MSM reporting have you seen in the last few weeks carrying the reports of the extensive loss of civilian lives, and the use of cluster munitions, explosive fuel rounds and WP on civilian targets...basically none.

Here in this SWJ thread you see it almost in near real time give or take a couple of hours to get the info via sat phone Syrian social media reporters.

Example----where in MSM do you see this small but important comment....coming out of Russia?
Russia's Orthodox church has blessed #Putin’s Syrian intervention as a crusade. Jihadists in #Syria happen 2 agree
pic.twitter.com/aTB0xSfOxa


That is one of the major reasons I keep posting.

[OUTLAW 09]

BREAKING
#Israel warplanes carried out airstrikes targeting #SAA positions in #Qasioum_Mount
Nov 27
pic.twitter.com/GCSk2GMsYy

Things are getting more complicated every day: Israel bombing Assad forces.
https://twitter.com/worldonalert/status/670013927699456000 …

Also in #Huraytan, #Aleppo province, many civilians were killed in Russian terror attacks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZO64bnoUeM … pic.twitter.com/2PSY0Ysbp0

Among #Russia's targets were the large towns Jisr al-Shughur and Ma`arat al-Nu`man, both far away from the front.
pic.twitter.com/leIdr5DRlF

Syria Rebels destroyed T-55 tank & 23mm gun at al-Humairah front in SE #Aleppo with TOW
http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=35.960987&lon=37.504406&z=14&m=b …

[OUTLAW 09]

Syria: SSNP claims at least 9 fallen fighters this month in battles w/ Islamic State in Muhin area, Homs province
pic.twitter.com/AIrrm03LGT

What happened to moderate political dissent in Syria? They were literally used as corpse heaps by loyalists. https://twitter.com/AEJKhalil/status/669381307324047360 …

Syria Rebels destroyed Kornet ATGM base in al Eis in southern #Aleppo

Regime militias & Russians controlled Zahia peak for less than 24 hrs before #FSA 10th Brigdate took it back today.
https://youtu.be/ZjZAP2Ax1lU

[OUTLAW 09]

Outlaw,

This thread reads like your own personal blog. It's quite entertaining really.

Anyway, we can probably write off the U.S. objective of removing Assad from power now that Russia is directly involved in the conflict. If he steps down, it will be at the behest of his Russian and Iranian benefactors who see that concession to Washington as valuable for some other gain. I doubt that this will be a repeat of the Russo-Japanese War or Afghanistan for the Russians though there is the risk of entanglement now for them. The question for the U.S. is how to make the Russian victory as costly as possible.

Hollande has been taking the Putin line for at least a year now--so this does not surprise me in the least---the same argumentation that Putin uses when he stated yesterday only the SAA can fight IS--the problem is it is a Sunni problem and must be resolved by the Sunnis and there is a 90K Sunni army that first wants Assad removed before they take on IS which actually sounds fine to me as a demand.

BTW Hollande has publicly telling the Ukrainians to "negotiate" with the Russian mercenaries who the Ukrainians see as "terrorists" which they actually are but only in the pay of Russia---NOW the Ukrainian media has been publicly asking the same question back to Hollande..."why are you not negotiating" with the Islamic State...since that is the same recommendation you have been giving us for eight months now.

The Ukrainian media then points out France along with Germany has been against giving the UAF defensive weapons ie TOWs to fend off 600 Russian tanks and yet France wants a international military coalition to bomb IS and Germany joins in---notice anything? What happen to good ole common sense in foreign policy??

French FM sees Syrian regime participating in anti-#ISIS fight - @i24news_EN

BUT wait...appears the French have not seen the reality of the SAA not being Syrian and Arab.
Iraq Shi'a militia Kata'ib Imam Ali says it's formed second contingent of fighters to be dispatched to Aleppo front
http://i24ne.ws/V813g

[CrowBat]

CB--thanks for the spelling assistance--sometimes I do wonder just which way some names are spelled....secondly if the Russians are doing major airfield construction then their move into Syria was not a "sudden decision"...
NP.

And re their construction efforts at Hmemmem/BAAIAP: they first stuffed that place full with 40+ combat aircraft...

...and then found out there's not enough space to build at least hardstands for all of them, not to talk about proper HASes and similar protection measures.

The four Su-30SMs are still all parked inside one, big, blast pent, and new fuel and ammo depots were constructed _underneath_ new hardstands.

Overall: complete improvisation, made in rush.

A single BLU-109-tipped GBU-24 (or one of those Turkish-made SOAMs) - and the entire place is going to look as if hit by a nuke...

[OUTLAW 09]

Understanding #Putin's anger: Entire show of force spoiled by #Turkey shooting down exposed SU-24 lost in navigation

Hardly anybody talks about #Russian blunder of not enforcing safe conduct for bombing near foreign territory.

[CrowBat]

...thinking of it: the same could happen if the JAF finally manages to make operational one of few (Iranian-made) Zelzal SSMs it has captured from Hezbollah, back in August or September...

And overall... this Russian operation is so 'well-thought-out', can't say.

They've deployed four of their Su-30SM über-turbo-superfighters, only to find out that - while aircraft-wise at least matching, if not outmatching Turkish F-16C Block 40/50s - weapon-wise these are armed with missiles that are two generations behind.

Namely, the R-27ER-1 is so well-known to the NATO, that it's de-facto useless, while famed R-77 is not in VKS' serivce... :rolleyes:

...and their Su-34s, claimed as 'outmatching F/A-18G Growler in jamming capability and power' must now be escorted by poorly-armed Su-30SMs, while deploying dumb bombs in Aleppo area... :rolleyes:

But, 'no problem'.

That's why they've now rushed that S-400 site to Hmemmen.

Man, aren't these hefty TELs impressive - mildly expressed?

Outright scarry.

...and not only reminding of similar Syrian reactions to Israeli ops over Lebanon, in 1980-1981 (pointing at hopelessly obsolete and inflexible doctrine and tactics), but adding more problems to Russian voes.

Namely, they are stationed low near the Med coast - with the view towards north and west blocked by 2000m high anti-Lebanon mountains.

Means: Russians could stuff half of their air defences into Lattakia area. But, without finally deploying one of 19 remaining A-50s to Syria, they still do not have useful radar coverage over the battlefield.

[OUTLAW 09]

...thinking of it: the same could happen if the JAF finally manages to make operational one of few (Iranian-made) Zelzal SSMs it has captured from Hezbollah, back in August or September...

And overall... this Russian operation is so 'well-thought-out', can't say.

They've deployed four of their Su-30SM ber-turbo-superfighters, only to find out that - while aircraft-wise at least matching, if not outmatching Turkish F-16C Block 40/50s - weapon-wise these are armed with missiles that are two generations behind.

Namely, the R-27ER-1 is so well-known to the NATO, that it's de-facto useless, while famed R-77 is not in VKS' serivce... :rolleyes:

...and their Su-34s, claimed as 'outmatching F/A-18G Growler in jamming capability and power' must now be escorted by poorly-armed Su-30SMs, while deploying dumb bombs in Aleppo area... :rolleyes:

But, 'no problem'.

That's why they've now rushed that S-400 site to Hmemmen.

Man, aren't these hefty TELs impressive - mildly expressed?

Outright scarry.

...and not only reminding of similar Syrian reactions to Israeli ops over Lebanon, in 1980-1981 (pointing at hopelessly obsolete and inflexible doctrine and tactics), but adding more problems to Russian voes.

Namely, they are stationed low near the Med coast - with the view towards north and west blocked by 2000m high anti-Lebanon mountains.

Means: Russians could stuff half of their air defences into Lattakia area. But, without finally deploying one of 19 remaining A-50s to Syria, they still do not have useful radar coverage over the battlefield.

CB--just a side question is not the Russian airfield within Turkish missile artillery range since they moved artillery and missiles to the border area in July??

[OUTLAW 09]

Russia sealift on the move again............Syrian Express

Can we say "Green Capital (shipping container) is en route to Syria on a Russian ship"?

FLOT's recently purchased freighter Vologda-50 crossed the strait en route to Syria.

ВМФ Auxiliary Fleet’s cargo vessel Vologda-50 carried 12 cargo container boxes above the deck en route to Syria

First Med-bound #ВМФ transit since SU-24 incident 3 days ago, aux cargo vessel Vologda-50 transits Bosphorus

Turnaround time for this ship appears to be four days----

[CrowBat]

I've got no clue about Turkish artillery, or artillery-rockets.

All I can say is that Hmemmem/BAAIAP is about 50km south of southernmost tip of Turkish border.

AFAIK, there are artillery rockes (Brazilian SS-150 Astros, US M270 MRLS and some others coming to my mind) variants of which have a range well beyond that.

[OUTLAW 09]

France now cooperate with #Assad's-forces who killed 1100 people in #Damascus suburbs with Sarin gas?

[OUTLAW 09]

Hollande has been taking the Putin line for at least a year now--so this does not surprise me in the least---the same argumentation that Putin uses when he stated yesterday only the SAA can fight IS--the problem is it is a Sunni problem and must be resolved by the Sunnis and there is a 90K Sunni army that first wants Assad removed before they take on IS which actually sounds fine to me as a demand.

BTW Hollande has publicly telling the Ukrainians to "negotiate" with the Russian mercenaries who the Ukrainians see as "terrorists" which they actually are but only in the pay of Russia---NOW the Ukrainian media has been publicly asking the same question back to Hollande..."why are you not negotiating" with the Islamic State...since that is the same recommendation you have been giving us for eight months now.

The Ukrainian media then points out France along with Germany has been against giving the UAF defensive weapons ie TOWs to fend off 600 Russian tanks and yet France wants a international military coalition to bomb IS and Germany joins in---notice anything? What happen to good ole common sense in foreign policy??

French FM sees Syrian regime participating in anti-#ISIS fight - @i24news_EN

BUT wait...appears the French have not seen the reality of the SAA not being Syrian and Arab.
Iraq Shi'a militia Kata'ib Imam Ali says it's formed second contingent of fighters to be dispatched to Aleppo front
http://i24ne.ws/V813g

France now cooperate with #Assad's-forces who killed 1100 people in #Damascus suburbs with Sarin gas?

Hollande appears to not understand the imagery he is getting France and the West into.....seems he forgot about the genocide being carried out still in Syria by Assad and oh that small problem verified by the UNHRC---starvation.

[OUTLAW 09]

That awkward moment when you spoof the news arm of the Russian MoD with their own fake.
https://twitter.com/Sputnik_Intl/status/669816019620372480 …

[CrowBat]

Anyway, we can probably write off the U.S. objective of removing Assad from power now that Russia is directly involved in the conflict. If he steps down, it will be at the behest of his Russian and Iranian benefactors who see that concession to Washington as valuable for some other gain. I doubt that this will be a repeat of the Russo-Japanese War or Afghanistan for the Russians though there is the risk of entanglement now for them. The question for the U.S. is how to make the Russian victory as costly as possible.
In dumbest terms coming to my mind...

Let's say Oblabla and... well, any other Western politician not corrupted by Gazprom and similar Russian 'interests'... (Hollande appears a good example)... manage to convince Putler and that wannabe-Ayatollah Khamenei to get Assad out of Damascus...

...and Assad leaves, say, 5 minutes after the moment you've read this post of mine...

...what would that change on the battlefields of Syria?

Would the fighting end?

I strongly doubt this.

Hand at heart: the story about 'chaos without Assad', supposedly because of a break-down of 'civil order' in what was left of Syria under his control - as propagated by Oblabla - is nonsense. Syria (that is: the 30% of country still under supposed control of the regime) is already now a complete chaos. It is bankrupt since November 2011 and surviving only thanks to extensive financial support from Tehran.

Tehran has bankrupted itself 'thanks' to spending about US$50 billion in Syria of the last four years - and is currently surviving only thanks to loans from China, made possible by... surprise, surprise... Daesh advance into northern Iraq, in summer of last year....

Aw... I'm going off-topic now...

Anyway: Syria is ruined. Infra-structure is in tatters; most of major cities completely ruined. Industry is demolished. Agroculture sector ruined by war and successive draughts. There is already now no civil order, but 'organized chaos' run by various quasi-pro-Assad militias - foremost the IRGC-QF, which can't think about anything else but bolstering arsenals of Hezbollah/Lebanon and developing an even large force of Hezbollah/Syria, accompanied by construction of Shi'a religious schools and all the related indoctrination...

But OK. Let's say Assad is gone and ask again: would that mean that various of his militias (usually called 'Syrian Arab Army' or 'Syrian Armed Forces' by our glorious media) would stop fighting?

I would say: no way.

Reasons (roughly, quite roughly):
- a) 30% of these militias are Alawis, who are not only sternously convinced they are better than all the others there, but have so much blood and terror on their hands (not only from 40 years of their dictatorship but also four years of war in which they have destroyed the country) that at least half of them would end on various courts for war criminals - if not right in front of some execution squad.

- b) 10% are Syrian Sunni Nazis (more specifically 'Syrian Socialist National Party'), who think of themselves in terms German Nazis thought of themselves in the 1930s and 1940s.

- c) 10% are Syrian Sunni Ba'athists (and, sigh, hope I need not explaining how Ba'athists think of themselves).

- d) 35% are various Iraqi Shi'a Jihadists recruited by the IRGC (i.e. 'Hezbollah/Iraq'), then the IRGC-recruited Hezbollah/Syria, and Hezbollah/Lebanon, plus mercenaries from Afghanistan, Pakistan and wherever else...

- e) 5% are Palestinians (predominantly Palestinian Christians), that is kids of Palestinian refugees that grew up in Syria and have little other choice but to side with Assad, and various foreign volunteers organized as the 'Arab National Guard';

- f) 5% are Syrian Christians who were dumb enough to side with Assad (well, there is no doubt that emergence of the JAN, Daesh and similar idiots helped them in this decision); and

- g) 5% are Syrian Druze, who were stupid enough to side with Assad (supposedly for their own interests, but actually in order to be used as Assad's show-fight against the Daesh, primarily in Dayr az-Zawr area).

What sane person thinks anybody could bring any semblance of an order into this chaos alone? Not even the IRGC can control all of this (not to talk about Assad), but somebody thinks some sort of 'international agreement' - could?

And, how can anybody think he/she could bring an order into a chaos of about 2,000 'registered' armed opposition groups fighting against the above-mentioned conglomerate?

And then - a question which is ah-so-overimportant for the West: what's with Daesh? How shall anybody bring them under control?

Even if, say, there is a multi-national coalition that launches an all-out invasion of that pseudo-state: what shall we do with all of these idiots once they are defeated? Slaughter them to the last combatant, wife and kid? Forcefully convert them...? or convince them to convert... and to what...?

I'm really sorry, and be sure: I really mean no offense to anybody.

But, my conclusion - which appears 'unavoidable' to me - is that anybody thinking some sort of 'diplomatic solution' to this conflict is possible, is daydreaming.

(Note: which shouldn't mean that I think that any kind of military solution is possible, either. It is simply too late. So, grab yourself a bag of popcorn, some beer, and watch - as long as you still can.)

[OUTLAW 09]

This Ukrainian clip by @PeoplesProj showing solidarity w/ #Turkey air force is going viral
http://www.peoplesproject.com/en/news/peoples-project-video-causes-stir-in-turkey/ …
pic.twitter.com/YxFtEGgztb


In Turkey there is growing excitement around a video made by Peoples Project volunteers focusing on the prowess of the Turkish Air Force.
At the moment over the last 24 hours, Google already gives hundreds of links to various media sites,which published the video.

The emergence of the video miraculously coincided with the shooting down of a Russian Air Force bomber by the Turks after the violated Turkish airspace. There is no mention of this fact in the video. It does however, conclude with the slogan “Glory to the Turkish Air Force! Death to the enemies.”

The video has been picked up by CNN TÜRK. A dozen Turkish news websites have followed suit, loading it to their homepages.

The video shows the Turkish Air Rorce in action: in training and combat tasks. The visuals are accompanied by music based on Hücum Marşı – a modern rendering of a well-known Ottoman military march. At the moment over the last 24 hours, Google already gives hundreds of links to various media sites,which published the video

On The People’s Project YouTube channel under the video there is a large number of comments from Turkish, Ukrainian, and even Kazakh users. Many Turks have commented the video strengthens the friendship between Ukraine and Turkey.
​

[OUTLAW 09]

I raise the core question again DOES Putin really want a war with NATO...has been rumored during the Ukrainian invasion.....

Erdogan says if S-300/S-400 used vs Turkish jets that's "aggression" vs right of sovereignty
http://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2015/11/26/erdogan-turkey-russia-warplane-interview-anderson.cnn …
pic.twitter.com/1ujnoKAanv

Peskov confirms #Erdogan "tried to call" #Putin 7-8 hours after #Su24 shot down.No explanation why didn't speak: guessing Putin too furious?

[OUTLAW 09]

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/syria/2015-11-24/proxy-wars?cid=soc-tw-rdr

What happens when Russia is fighting a proxy war against the US and the US is not fighting back....interesting concept....

Proxy Wars

Russia's Intervention in Syria and What Washington Should Do

By Tom Cotton


The attacks by the Islamic State (also known as ISIS) in Paris have forced a major rethinking of U.S. strategy in the Syrian conflict. A part of that rethinking must be U.S. President Barack Obama’s unwise decision to treat Russia as a legitimate partner in negotiations over Syria’s future.

At the G-20 meeting in Turkey this week, Russia quickly offered itself as a key partner in the fight against ISIS and the stabilization of Syria, and Obama again expressed his willingness to entertain that notion.

This is a grave mistake. Rather than being a constructive partner, President Vladimir Putin’s Russia has been engaged in a proxy war against the United States in Syria, despite Obama’s protestations to the contrary. And when an enemy wages war against the United States, it does not get to choose whether it is at war; its only choice is to win or lose. Right now, the United States is losing the proxy war in Syria—and a wider competition for regional influence—against Russia. And it will continue to do so without a dramatic shift in policy to confront Russian aggression.

A PROXY WAR AND THE WIDER STRUGGLE

In Syria, Putin professes that he wants to fight ISIS, but this is mere posturing.

Continued......

[OUTLAW 09]

In dumbest terms coming to my mind...

Let's say Oblabla and... well, any other Western politician not corrupted by Gazprom and similar Russian 'interests'... (Hollande appears a good example)... manage to convince Putler and that wannabe-Ayatollah Khamenei to get Assad out of Damascus...

...and Assad leaves, say, 5 minutes after the moment you've read this post of mine...

...what would that change on the battlefields of Syria?

Would the fighting end?

I strongly doubt this.

Hand at heart: the story about 'chaos without Assad', supposedly because of a break-down of 'civil order' in what was left of Syria under his control - as propagated by Oblabla - is nonsense. Syria (that is: the 30% of country still under supposed control of the regime) is already now a complete chaos. It is bankrupt since November 2011 and surviving only thanks to extensive financial support from Tehran.

Tehran has bankrupted itself 'thanks' to spending about US$50 billion in Syria of the last four years - and is currently surviving only thanks to loans from China, made possible by... surprise, surprise... Daesh advance into northern Iraq, in summer of last year....

Aw... I'm going off-topic now...

Anyway: Syria is ruined. Infra-structure is in tatters; most of major cities completely ruined. Industry is demolished. Agroculture sector ruined by war and successive draughts. There is already now no civil order, but 'organized chaos' run by various quasi-pro-Assad militias - foremost the IRGC-QF, which can't think about anything else but bolstering arsenals of Hezbollah/Lebanon and developing an even large force of Hezbollah/Syria, accompanied by construction of Shi'a religious schools and all the related indoctrination...

But OK. Let's say Assad is gone and ask again: would that mean that various of his militias (usually called 'Syrian Arab Army' or 'Syrian Armed Forces' by our glorious media) would stop fighting?

I would say: no way.

Reasons (roughly, quite roughly):
- a) 30% of these militias are Alawis, who are not only sternously convinced they are better than all the others there, but have so much blood and terror on their hands (not only from 40 years of their dictatorship but also four years of war in which they have destroyed the country) that at least half of them would end on various courts for war criminals - if not right in front of some execution squad.

- b) 10% are Syrian Sunni Nazis (more specifically 'Syrian Socialist National Party'), who think of themselves in terms German Nazis thought of themselves in the 1930s and 1940s.

- c) 10% are Syrian Sunni Ba'athists (and, sigh, hope I need not explaining how Ba'athists think of themselves).

- d) 35% are various Iraqi Shi'a Jihadists recruited by the IRGC (i.e. 'Hezbollah/Iraq'), then the IRGC-recruited Hezbollah/Syria, and Hezbollah/Lebanon, plus mercenaries from Afghanistan, Pakistan and wherever else...

- e) 5% are Palestinians (predominantly Palestinian Christians), that is kids of Palestinian refugees that grew up in Syria and have little other choice but to side with Assad, and various foreign volunteers organized as the 'Arab National Guard';

- f) 5% are Syrian Christians who were dumb enough to side with Assad (well, there is no doubt that emergence of the JAN, Daesh and similar idiots helped them in this decision); and

- g) 5% are Syrian Druze, who were stupid enough to side with Assad (supposedly for their own interests, but actually in order to be used as Assad's show-fight against the Daesh, primarily in Dayr az-Zawr area).

What sane person thinks anybody could bring any semblance of an order into this chaos alone? Not even the IRGC can control all of this (not to talk about Assad), but somebody thinks some sort of 'international agreement' - could?

And, how can anybody think he/she could bring an order into a chaos of about 2,000 'registered' armed opposition groups fighting against the above-mentioned conglomerate?

And then - a question which is ah-so-overimportant for the West: what's with Daesh? How shall anybody bring them under control?

Even if, say, there is a multi-national coalition that launches an all-out invasion of that pseudo-state: what shall we do with all of these idiots once they are defeated? Slaughter them to the last combatant, wife and kid? Forcefully convert them...? or convince them to convert... and to what...?

I'm really sorry, and be sure: I really mean no offense to anybody.

But, my conclusion - which appears 'unavoidable' to me - is that anybody thinking some sort of 'diplomatic solution' to this conflict is possible, is daydreaming.

(Note: which shouldn't mean that I think that any kind of military solution is possible, either. It is simply too late. So, grab yourself a bag of popcorn, some beer, and watch - as long as you still can.)

CB--any reason why your assessment is not making into mainstream media?
I mean it is all there for them to see and analyze but why do they ignore it?

So is Putin in a swamp with no way out or is he just establishing a really long term large scale naval, ground and air military presence in the ME, kicking the US out of the area, controlling the Med as he does the Black, Caspian and Azov Seas and to a large degree the Baltic and he does not care how deep the swamp gets?

[OUTLAW 09]

Russian jets are burning down my town." Impt report from @SherineT on the effects of Russia's "anti-Isis" strikes http://news.sky.com/story/1568280/russian-jets-are-burning-down-my-town …

Updates for North #Aleppo:
- Rebels claimed to retake both of Kashtaar & Mezre villages.
- Clashes ongoing in Malikiya village.

ISIS Nowhere in Sight - My report from Rebel controlled Aleppo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biT7XXGMclI …

Hama: Syrian Rebels hold ground & kill Assad regime officer
http://en.eldorar.com/node/803

Reference Russian info warriors......
Putin trolls using fake accounts pretending they live in the west & some of them pushing the blacklivesmatter hashtag

[OUTLAW 09]

In dumbest terms coming to my mind...

Let's say Oblabla and... well, any other Western politician not corrupted by Gazprom and similar Russian 'interests'... (Hollande appears a good example)... manage to convince Putler and that wannabe-Ayatollah Khamenei to get Assad out of Damascus...

...and Assad leaves, say, 5 minutes after the moment you've read this post of mine...

...what would that change on the battlefields of Syria?

Would the fighting end?

I strongly doubt this.

Hand at heart: the story about 'chaos without Assad', supposedly because of a break-down of 'civil order' in what was left of Syria under his control - as propagated by Oblabla - is nonsense. Syria (that is: the 30% of country still under supposed control of the regime) is already now a complete chaos. It is bankrupt since November 2011 and surviving only thanks to extensive financial support from Tehran.

Tehran has bankrupted itself 'thanks' to spending about US$50 billion in Syria of the last four years - and is currently surviving only thanks to loans from China, made possible by... surprise, surprise... Daesh advance into northern Iraq, in summer of last year....

Aw... I'm going off-topic now...

Anyway: Syria is ruined. Infra-structure is in tatters; most of major cities completely ruined. Industry is demolished. Agroculture sector ruined by war and successive draughts. There is already now no civil order, but 'organized chaos' run by various quasi-pro-Assad militias - foremost the IRGC-QF, which can't think about anything else but bolstering arsenals of Hezbollah/Lebanon and developing an even large force of Hezbollah/Syria, accompanied by construction of Shi'a religious schools and all the related indoctrination...

But OK. Let's say Assad is gone and ask again: would that mean that various of his militias (usually called 'Syrian Arab Army' or 'Syrian Armed Forces' by our glorious media) would stop fighting?

I would say: no way.

Reasons (roughly, quite roughly):
- a) 30% of these militias are Alawis, who are not only sternously convinced they are better than all the others there, but have so much blood and terror on their hands (not only from 40 years of their dictatorship but also four years of war in which they have destroyed the country) that at least half of them would end on various courts for war criminals - if not right in front of some execution squad.

- b) 10% are Syrian Sunni Nazis (more specifically 'Syrian Socialist National Party'), who think of themselves in terms German Nazis thought of themselves in the 1930s and 1940s.

- c) 10% are Syrian Sunni Ba'athists (and, sigh, hope I need not explaining how Ba'athists think of themselves).

- d) 35% are various Iraqi Shi'a Jihadists recruited by the IRGC (i.e. 'Hezbollah/Iraq'), then the IRGC-recruited Hezbollah/Syria, and Hezbollah/Lebanon, plus mercenaries from Afghanistan, Pakistan and wherever else...

- e) 5% are Palestinians (predominantly Palestinian Christians), that is kids of Palestinian refugees that grew up in Syria and have little other choice but to side with Assad, and various foreign volunteers organized as the 'Arab National Guard';

- f) 5% are Syrian Christians who were dumb enough to side with Assad (well, there is no doubt that emergence of the JAN, Daesh and similar idiots helped them in this decision); and

- g) 5% are Syrian Druze, who were stupid enough to side with Assad (supposedly for their own interests, but actually in order to be used as Assad's show-fight against the Daesh, primarily in Dayr az-Zawr area).

What sane person thinks anybody could bring any semblance of an order into this chaos alone? Not even the IRGC can control all of this (not to talk about Assad), but somebody thinks some sort of 'international agreement' - could?

And, how can anybody think he/she could bring an order into a chaos of about 2,000 'registered' armed opposition groups fighting against the above-mentioned conglomerate?

And then - a question which is ah-so-overimportant for the West: what's with Daesh? How shall anybody bring them under control?

Even if, say, there is a multi-national coalition that launches an all-out invasion of that pseudo-state: what shall we do with all of these idiots once they are defeated? Slaughter them to the last combatant, wife and kid? Forcefully convert them...? or convince them to convert... and to what...?

I'm really sorry, and be sure: I really mean no offense to anybody.

But, my conclusion - which appears 'unavoidable' to me - is that anybody thinking some sort of 'diplomatic solution' to this conflict is possible, is daydreaming.

(Note: which shouldn't mean that I think that any kind of military solution is possible, either. It is simply too late. So, grab yourself a bag of popcorn, some beer, and watch - as long as you still can.)

AND this is how a US Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard sees the problem.......

From Gabbard

“Here are 10 reasons the U.S. must end its war to overthrow the Syrian government of Assad:
1.Because if we succeed in overthrowing the Syrian government of Assad, it will open the door for ISIS, al-Qaeda, and other Islamic extremists to take over all of Syria. There will be genocide and suffering on a scale beyond our imagination. These Islamic extremists will take over all the weaponry, infrastructure, and military hardware of the Syrian army and be more dangerous than ever before.
2.We should not be allying ourselves with these Islamic extremists by helping them achieve their goal because it is against the security interests of the United States and all of civilization.
3.Because the money and weapons the CIA is providing to overthrow the Syrian government of Assad are going directly or indirectly into the hands of the Islamic extremist groups, including al-Qaeda affiliates, al-Nusra, Ahrar al-Sham, and others who are the actual enemies of the United States. These groups make up close to 90 percent of the so-called opposition forces, and are the most dominant fighters on the ground.
4.Because our efforts to overthrow Assad has increased and will continue to increase the strength of ISIS and other Islamic extremists, thus making them a bigger regional and global threat.
5.Because this war has exacerbated the chaos and carnage in Syria and, along with the terror inflicted by ISIS and other Islamic extremist groups fighting to take over Syria, continues to increase the number of Syrians forced to flee their country.
6.Because we should learn from our past mistakes in Iraq and Libya that U.S. wars to overthrow secular dictators (Saddam Hussein and Muammar Gaddafi) cause even more chaos and human suffering and open the door for Islamic extremists to take over in those countries.
7.Because the U.S. has no credible government or government leader ready to bring order, security, and freedom to the people of Syria.
8.Because even the ‘best case’ scenario—that the U.S. successfully overthrows the Syrian government of Assad—would obligate the United States to spend trillions of dollars and the lives of American service members in the futile effort to create a new Syria. This is what we have been trying to do in Iraq for twelve years, and we still have not succeeded. The situation in Syria will be much more difficult than in Iraq.
9.Because our war against the Syrian government of Assad is interfering with our being one-pointedly focused on the war to defeat ISIS, Al-Qaeda, and the other Islamic extremists who are our actual enemy.
10.Because our war to overthrow the Assad government puts us in direct conflict with Russia and increases the likelihood of war between the United States and Russia and the possibility of another world war.”

[OUTLAW 09]

Syria #Latakia Rebels take of Mt Zahia near #Turkey- seized 2 tanks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sc3xGVkyjsA&feature=youtu.be …
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8M9fVEHgnKE&feature=youtu.be …

Assad army bombardment partially collapses high-rise residential building in #ElWaer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdNCQODtVKc …

Footage
Rebel report from Tell Masharah in the #Quneitra "triangle of death".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSPDwAH3KMM …

[OUTLAW 09]

In dumbest terms coming to my mind...

Let's say Oblabla and... well, any other Western politician not corrupted by Gazprom and similar Russian 'interests'... (Hollande appears a good example)... manage to convince Putler and that wannabe-Ayatollah Khamenei to get Assad out of Damascus...

...and Assad leaves, say, 5 minutes after the moment you've read this post of mine...

...what would that change on the battlefields of Syria?

Would the fighting end?

I strongly doubt this.

Hand at heart: the story about 'chaos without Assad', supposedly because of a break-down of 'civil order' in what was left of Syria under his control - as propagated by Oblabla - is nonsense. Syria (that is: the 30% of country still under supposed control of the regime) is already now a complete chaos. It is bankrupt since November 2011 and surviving only thanks to extensive financial support from Tehran.

Tehran has bankrupted itself 'thanks' to spending about US$50 billion in Syria of the last four years - and is currently surviving only thanks to loans from China, made possible by... surprise, surprise... Daesh advance into northern Iraq, in summer of last year....

Aw... I'm going off-topic now...

Anyway: Syria is ruined. Infra-structure is in tatters; most of major cities completely ruined. Industry is demolished. Agroculture sector ruined by war and successive draughts. There is already now no civil order, but 'organized chaos' run by various quasi-pro-Assad militias - foremost the IRGC-QF, which can't think about anything else but bolstering arsenals of Hezbollah/Lebanon and developing an even large force of Hezbollah/Syria, accompanied by construction of Shi'a religious schools and all the related indoctrination...

But OK. Let's say Assad is gone and ask again: would that mean that various of his militias (usually called 'Syrian Arab Army' or 'Syrian Armed Forces' by our glorious media) would stop fighting?

I would say: no way.

Reasons (roughly, quite roughly):
- a) 30% of these militias are Alawis, who are not only sternously convinced they are better than all the others there, but have so much blood and terror on their hands (not only from 40 years of their dictatorship but also four years of war in which they have destroyed the country) that at least half of them would end on various courts for war criminals - if not right in front of some execution squad.

- b) 10% are Syrian Sunni Nazis (more specifically 'Syrian Socialist National Party'), who think of themselves in terms German Nazis thought of themselves in the 1930s and 1940s.

- c) 10% are Syrian Sunni Ba'athists (and, sigh, hope I need not explaining how Ba'athists think of themselves).

- d) 35% are various Iraqi Shi'a Jihadists recruited by the IRGC (i.e. 'Hezbollah/Iraq'), then the IRGC-recruited Hezbollah/Syria, and Hezbollah/Lebanon, plus mercenaries from Afghanistan, Pakistan and wherever else...

- e) 5% are Palestinians (predominantly Palestinian Christians), that is kids of Palestinian refugees that grew up in Syria and have little other choice but to side with Assad, and various foreign volunteers organized as the 'Arab National Guard';

- f) 5% are Syrian Christians who were dumb enough to side with Assad (well, there is no doubt that emergence of the JAN, Daesh and similar idiots helped them in this decision); and

- g) 5% are Syrian Druze, who were stupid enough to side with Assad (supposedly for their own interests, but actually in order to be used as Assad's show-fight against the Daesh, primarily in Dayr az-Zawr area).

What sane person thinks anybody could bring any semblance of an order into this chaos alone? Not even the IRGC can control all of this (not to talk about Assad), but somebody thinks some sort of 'international agreement' - could?

And, how can anybody think he/she could bring an order into a chaos of about 2,000 'registered' armed opposition groups fighting against the above-mentioned conglomerate?

And then - a question which is ah-so-overimportant for the West: what's with Daesh? How shall anybody bring them under control?

Even if, say, there is a multi-national coalition that launches an all-out invasion of that pseudo-state: what shall we do with all of these idiots once they are defeated? Slaughter them to the last combatant, wife and kid? Forcefully convert them...? or convince them to convert... and to what...?

I'm really sorry, and be sure: I really mean no offense to anybody.

But, my conclusion - which appears 'unavoidable' to me - is that anybody thinking some sort of 'diplomatic solution' to this conflict is possible, is daydreaming.

(Note: which shouldn't mean that I think that any kind of military solution is possible, either. It is simply too late. So, grab yourself a bag of popcorn, some beer, and watch - as long as you still can.)

CB--what do you think of this recently posted comment......

Piece by piece the #Assad/#Putin/#Khamenei armies "shape" #Syria so no single opponent of the regimes can live in it anymore ...

[CrowBat]

CB--what do you think of this recently posted comment......
Piece by piece the #Assad/#Putin/#Khamenei armies "shape" #Syria so no single opponent of the regimes can live in it anymore ...'Scarry'.

Don't know if you've seen this:
Russian Intervention Reveals Assad’s Wariness of Iran (http://atlanticsentinel.com/2015/10/russian-intervention-reveals-assads-wariness-of-iran/):

...Beyond providing military support that has proved decisive in keeping anti-Assad rebels at bay, Iran has opened religious centers in the country that seek to convert both Alawites and Sunnis to “correct” Shia Islam. The government decreed one year ago that state-run religion institutions were to teach Shiite material.

Iranian emissaries have also been buying up buildings and land in Damascus, the capital, to resettle Shiites.

The Times of Israel, basing itself on stories in Arab media, recently reported that Iranian forces were helping to raze homes in Damascus to force Sunni residents out.

Reports surfaced early in the war of Alawite hit squads cleansing Sunni towns in the Nusayriyah Mountains that shield Assad’s homeland in the northwest from the rest of Syria.

Alawites are perturbed by Iran’s encroachment. “They are throwing us back a thousand years,” Der Spiegel reports some complaining. “We don’t even wear headscarves and we aren’t Shiites.”

The Russians, by contrast, are welcomed in the Alawite provinces of Syria...

On the other side: Alawis are themselves to blame. They've trusted Assad and remained loyal, setting their own hair on fire instead of negotiating.

[Bill Moore]

The Latest: Putin: Russia to cooperate with US-led coalition: http://bigstory.ap.org/ce71e672811c41d8b36840ca742b858c&utm_source=android_app&utm_medium=mail&utm_campaign=share

and now,

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/russia-plays-down-idea-of-coalition-with-west-to-strike-isis-in-syria/2015/11/27/1ea21c42-950f-11e5-b5e4-279b4501e8a6_story.html


Russia plays down idea of coalition with West to strike ISIS in Syria


The Kremlin on Friday played down the possibility of a grand coalition with the West to strike the Islamic State in Syria, despite personal visits by French President Franois Hollande to both Washington and Moscow following a spate of horrific terrorist attacks tied to the terrorist group.

At the moment, unfortunately, our partners are not ready to work as one coalition, Dmitry Peskov, President Vladimir Putins personal spokesman, told reporters during a conference call on Friday.

I understand Tulsi Gabbard's logic, I suspect a lot of vets have similar views to a point. I thought our initial involvement was foolish also, especially since we only put one toe in the water, which was more attempt to create the illusion of doing something important. It came to a head when we failed to enforce a clearly stated red line. However, working with Assad became impossible after he started committed atrocities against the Syrian people, and oddly enough less effort directed against ISIS. The nature of drawn out wars change over time, the political object changes, the way it if fought changes, but we have an administration that IMO has failed to evolve his strategy to nest with today's reality. Crowbat provides a very clear explanation of why leaving the current government in place won't work, and any strategy that fails to comprehensively address Assad, ISIS, and the larger region (and arguably global dimensions) is not truly a strategy. A strategy with X number of lines of effort directed a small part of the overall problem (ISIS) is not worthy of being called a strategy and will ultimately fail.

[OUTLAW 09]

Breaking Reports of Israeli airstrikes targeting #Hezbollah near Serghaya & Kafr Yabous area & Flaita in Qalamoun, rural #Damascus, #Syria

Russia'n night airstrikes on Sarmada near Bab Al-Hawa border-crossing #Syria-#Turkey http://wikimapia.org/#lang=de&lat=36.205568&lon=36.719656&z=14&m=b …

Yasser Abdul Raheem (Head of Fateh Halab operations room) talking about massacre perpetrated by Jaysh Al-Thuwar.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyI2IvrU_rM ….

Aleppo 20+ residents of Tanab village found dead after #YPG & allies retreated http://wikimapia.org/#lang=de&lat=36.496631&lon=37.001266&z=15&m=b

drone cam: Shiite forces fled Tell Bajer in southern #Aleppo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqe8jYXeiIU&feature=youtu.be …
http://wikimapia.org/#lang=de&lat=35.947474&lon=36.985002&z=15&m=b …

Again, taking a picture with Gen. Suleimani is really dangerous.
Maysam Madawri (#IRGC officer) killed. #Syria

using Cluster bombs against Civilians in #Raqqa is A WAR CRIME, international community should take responsibility

Nusra captures more Iranian fodder imported to Syria to fight for regional warlord Assad around #Aleppo. @Halab__JN

Latakia Rebels took mountain east of Nab' al-Murr
http://wikimapia.org/#lang=de&lat=35.882861&lon=36.009493&z=14&m=b …
Rebels show Russian cluster-munition BM-30 Smerch rockets casing attacked #Ghab villages.
https://youtu.be/MFpUBM3LPt0

Syria Rebels blow up BMP in southern #Aleppo TOW hit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tItUj9RP9aw …

Rebels took over Mount al-Humairah overlooking regime supply road to #Aleppo & village below
http://wikimapia.org/#lang=de&lat=35.962932&lon=37.507753&z=14&m=b …

Syria al Jazeera reporter: Jaish al-Fatah killed 40 pro #Assad-forces in southern #Aleppo tday

Jabhat Al-Nusra has ZERO presence in North Aleppo countryside. They withdrew ages ago when there was talks of a so called "safe zone" +1

JaF taken control of Mukahlah in southern rural #Aleppo
http://wikimapia.org/#lang=de&lat=35.942123&lon=37.016716&z=15&m=b …
FSA hit T-72 tank in southern #Aleppo TOW hit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXzBMqM7VRA …

Jaish al Fatah try to advance now in southern #Aleppo countryside
& launch new assault

[OUTLAW 09]

Russian use starvation as a weapon system.....same tactic used by Assad for over 4 years.....

Russia set up blockade to starve out #Aleppo & #Idlib in northern #Syria
- daily airstrikes on the 2 main border crossings to #Turkey

Aleppo #Russia'n airstrike hit they highway lead to #Turkey border crossing at #Azaz
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnqlTI73Z_s …

Brutally GRAPHIC.....
Aleppo #Russia'n airstike behead little girl in #Azaz border town to #Turkey
https://vid.me/CryG

New #Russia'n airstrikes on #Sarmada & #Azaz rebel hold border-crossing towns to #Turkey in northern #Idlib & northern #Aleppo

Nusra claim repelled assault on Al-Qarassi & Al-Huwayz & killed "dozens of #Assad-forces"
http://wikimapia.org/#lang=de&lat=36.093361&lon=37.092204&z=15&m=b …

Aleppo People of Mariameen protest against kurdish #YPG-occupation of their village
http://wikimapia.org/#lang=de&lat=36.527916&lon=36.952386&z=14&m=b …

Latakia Moment when turkmen rebels storming Mt Zahia near #Turkey
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qadvnY-Iz-Y …

[OUTLAW 09]

Latakia Rebels took mountain east of Nab' al-Murr
http://wikimapia.org/#lang=de&lat=35.882861&lon=36.009493&z=14&m=b …

how far away are rebels from the Russian air base there?
30 km or so

mountainous terrain slows regime offensive,Also TOWs must be poured on them like rain.

[OUTLAW 09]

Rebels pulled out #YPG& allies from Malikia, Tanab & Al-Kishta'ar (west of highway) in northern #Aleppohttp://wikimapia.org/#lang=de&lat=36.519846&lon=37.009506&z=13&m=b …

Rebels have been beating up on YPG that is acting typical Kurdish and taking Arab towns and being occupiers not "liberators".

[OUTLAW 09]

Russia is starting to take serious loses that they are not admitting at all.....

Confirmed: 2 #Russia'n soldiers from 22. Speznas-Brigade in Rostov/Don killed in #Syria & buried at 12. November

First ten were reported, then 12, then 2 Spetsnaz and now another 2 Spetsnaz

[OUTLAW 09]

It becomes obvious,Russia not only wants to split the west but also reshape the Middle East's balance of power with its engagement in Syria.

It's gonna be a comprehensive longtime engagement, not stopping before total victory for Assad/Putin or military / strategic defeat.

Putin found himself a "rebel" group YPG to fight side by side with Assad/IRGC after all attempts to break FSA/Islamic Front coalition failed

Omg..
Russia takes it to a new level,blaming Turkey for all terror in Syria & vowing to become Assad's border guard.

Putin rages against Erdogan, who tries to calm Putin down. Unlikely to succeed. Russia isolates itself ever more. http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/26/us-mideast-crisis-syria-turkey-erdogan-idUSKBN0TE0QT20151126#3LV0leKDyCsicZso.97 …

[OUTLAW 09]

and now,

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/russia-plays-down-idea-of-coalition-with-west-to-strike-isis-in-syria/2015/11/27/1ea21c42-950f-11e5-b5e4-279b4501e8a6_story.html


Russia plays down idea of coalition with West to strike ISIS in Syria



I understand Tulsi Gabbard's logic, I suspect a lot of vets have similar views to a point. I thought our initial involvement was foolish also, especially since we only put one toe in the water, which was more attempt to create the illusion of doing something important. It came to a head when we failed to enforce a clearly stated red line. However, working with Assad became impossible after he started committed atrocities against the Syrian people, and oddly enough less effort directed against ISIS. The nature of drawn out wars change over time, the political object changes, the way it if fought changes, but we have an administration that IMO has failed to evolve his strategy to nest with today's reality. Crowbat provides a very clear explanation of why leaving the current government in place won't work, and any strategy that fails to comprehensively address Assad, ISIS, and the larger region (and arguably global dimensions) is not truly a strategy. A strategy with X number of lines of effort directed a small part of the overall problem (ISIS) is not worthy of being called a strategy and will ultimately fail.

Bill--Putin is starting to rudder truly into the realm of an altered state of reality were he thinks he is the single most powerful superpower----actually he is getting a seriously tad dangerous and out of control....

It becomes obvious,Russia not only wants to split the West but also reshape the Middle East's balance of power with its engagement in Syria.

It's gonna be a comprehensive longtime engagement, not stopping before total victory for Assad/Putin or military / strategic defeat.

Putin found himself a "rebel" group YPG to fight side by side with Assad/IRGC after all attempts to break FSA/Islamic Front coalition failed
3 RuAF airstrikes hit Azaz outskirts to support Kurdish #YPG & Jaish al-Thuwar ground attack on rebel's positions.
Russia is alluding to the fact that they will support YPG in their quest for a Kurdish homeland......

Russia takes it to a new level,blaming Turkey for all terror in Syria & vowing to become Assad's border guard.

Putin rages against Erdogan, who tries to calm Putin down. Unlikely to succeed. Russia isolates itself ever more.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/26/us-mideast-crisis-syria-turkey-erdogan-idUSKBN0TE0QT20151126#3LV0leKDyCsicZso.97 …

Russian info war media outlet Sputnik......
RussiaLies
#France didn't "condemn #Turkey" or accuse it of undermining anti-ISIS operation at NATO Council meeting

I have had may own doubts of where Erdogan is heading but in this shot down event--he fully acted correctly in the face of constant Putin provocations-just as the West should have pushed back in Ukraine.

The standard thinking in DC was say to not provoke Putin in the Ukraine out of fear Putin would escalate....well Turkey provoked back and Putin huffed and puffed but he did not escalate--why because even his Generals know they cannot win a direct NATO confrontation thus huffing and puffing and that is about it.

[OUTLAW 09]

FSA blow IRGC BMP south #Aleppo with TOW missile.
https://youtu.be/tItUj9RP9aw

Russian double standards....they are killing civilians at an alarming rate with dumb bombs, cluster munitions, WP and thermobarbic weapons AND the Russian AF are not terrorists.....

Lavrov: 'That group' that were shooting at our ejected pilot must be listed as terrorist, no way forward before that

BUT the West supports these Russian strikes against civilians as they absolutely say nothing about them........

#FSA Thuwar al-Sham battalions destroyIRGC militia T72 with TOW missile south #Aleppo.
https://youtu.be/bXzBMqM7VRA

Jaish al-Fath pounding IRGC militia in Tall Banjira with hellfire.
http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=35.934670&lon=37.068472&z=16&m=b …
https://youtu.be/OkVSzWXXP8Y

[Bill Moore]

Russia takes it to a new level,blaming Turkey for all terror in Syria & vowing to become Assad's border guard.

Outlaw, every good lie or propaganda is mixed with truth, and it does seem Russia's claim of Turkey's support for ISIL has some legitimacy. What a crazy world, Assad allegedly supports ISIL, Turkey who fighting to oust Assad supports ISIL, Russia supports Assad, but fears ISIL. The U.S. is leading (term loosely used here) an Arab coalition of many nations with many different interests, each supporting their own proxy groups. Pandora's Box?

http://asbarez.com/142150/columbia-university-researchers-confirm-turkeys-links-to-isis/

Columbia University Researchers Confirm Turkey’s Links to ISIS


A team of Columbia University researchers from the United States, Europe, and Turkey confirmed last week that the Turkish government has provided to ISIS: military cooperation, weapons, logistical support, financial assistance, and medical services. This detailed investigation was headed by David L. Phillips, Director of the Program on Peace-building and Rights at Columbia University’s Institute for the Study of Human Rights. He had served as Senior Advisor and Foreign Affairs Expert for the U.S. Department of State.

In addition to the support indicated in the paragraph above, they study states:


3.Turkey Trained ISIS Fighters


6.Turkey Assisted ISIS Recruitment


•On Sept. 20, 2014, Demir Celik, a Member of Parliament representing the People’s Democratic Party (HDP), stated that Turkish Special Forces had joined ISIS in the battlefield


8.Turkey Helped ISIS in Battle for Kobani


9.Turkey and ISIS Share a Worldview


•Hurriyet newspaper quoted a Turkish civil servant on Sept. 26, 2014: “I was shocked to hear words of admiration for ISIL from some high-level civil servants.”
•An AKP council member posted on his Facebook page: “Thankfully ISIS exists…. May you never run out of ammunition….”

[OUTLAW 09]

Idlib: #Russia'n airstrike on Binnish killed 7 - but also violate truce- agreement (#Fuah/#Kafarya & #Zabadani)

Russia'n airstrikes on Dana town in northern #Idlib- road to #Turkey border

Another Nusra "video game" when stormed Tell Bajer /#Aleppo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLdXKEzvEaM …
http://wikimapia.org/#lang=de&lat=35.946466&lon=36.983414&z=15&m=b
…
Russia bombs IS near Tel Aran. IS trying to capture it from Syrian regime in the area in which several Kurdish...
http://fb.me/7Dnoxxflz

JN/AQ fighter with a US Humvee captured in southern Aleppo from pro-SAA forces
https://twitter.com/green_lemonnn/status/666306646835097600 …

FSA's Liwaa Ahrar Surya announcing Sheikh Maqsud (#YPG-held) as a military zone after 24 killed, in a statement.

[OUTLAW 09]

Outlaw, every good lie or propaganda is mixed with truth, and it does seem Russia's claim of Turkey's support for ISIL has some legitimacy. What a crazy world, Assad allegedly supports ISIL, Turkey who fighting to oust Assad supports ISIL, Russia supports Assad, but fears ISIL. The U.S. is leading (term loosely used here) an Arab coalition of many nations with many different interests, each supporting their own proxy groups. Pandora's Box?

http://asbarez.com/142150/columbia-university-researchers-confirm-turkeys-links-to-isis/

Columbia University Researchers Confirm Turkey’s Links to ISIS

In addition to the support indicated in the paragraph above, they study states:

Bill--you bring up an interesting point in this proxy mix---Erdogan is dangerous just as dangerous actually as is Putin--he is a dictator striving via the appearance of democracy to achieve a new Islamic state not built on secularism but on his view of Islam.

Secondly he is striving to be a regional player BUT here is where he is not much different than Putin--he views Syria to be his personal Ukraine just as Putin views the Ukraine from his perspective.

Erdogan has been working with IS for a long while allowing recruits to flow to them via Turkey, munitions and arms went over the border and Turkey looked the other way when oil flowed back into Turkey.

But more importantly Turkey has wanted the ouster of Assad from the beginning and viewed IS as being capable of doing exactly that---he was played though by IS which really was in bed with Assad and has not really offensive wise ever threatened Assad--who has threatened Assad has been the FSA and other anti Assad forces and to a large degree the AQ affiliate JaN who exactly is a better fighting group than IS and who has worked a lot with the FSA and other anti Assad groups.

Turkeys goals with tossing out Assad also aligned with the other Sunni Front States especially the KSA--and the TOWs that are coming into Syria are coming via the Turkish border THAT is the real reason Russia wants the border closed---simply put the Russians believe that by closing the border they can effectively kill all rebel resistance.

BUT the US is playing the game as well---just how did they suddenly get the airfield landing rights for the F15/16s after Turkey rejected the US constant requests---it is seriously rumored that during the JSOC raid to free hostages they recovered a large number of IS documents that fully documented the Turkish assistance to IS along with names, accounts and organizations--THEN when this was waved at Erdogan the landing rights came almost immediately.

My deep concern is really that Erdogan is taking Turkey to deep into the Islamist direction AND that he is seriously ready to defend "Turkish" interests and ethnic Turks in the border regions. He has an inherent "nationalist" bent.

The moving of over 20 tanks into the border regions, beefing up his army units and placing 18 F16s into patrols along the border is a major indicator.

Yesterday there was a more serious rumor that the Turkish Army has moved major MRLS units up to the edge of the border and bunkered in---these units now make the advance Russian airfield with their new AD systems S400s in a serious form of checkmate---a barrage of MRLSs has the range to hit the field quite accurately.

Along with some of their longer range artillery Turkey has checkmated as well the Russia moves.

Putin on the other hand seems to not fully understand just how far Erdogan is willing to go--there was an article in "The Moscow Times" from the 26th that indicated that some higher level decision makers realized that Putin had miscalculated the Turkish moves which should not have been a surprise to them after their stream of provocations--regardless of what the Russians are saying it appears the SU24 pilot was far into setting up the perfect bombing run and simply did not care where the border was as the Turks had not responded previously.

They are now voicing some concern that the constant bombing directly on the border is a provocation that will come back to hit them as they feel Erdogan cannot continue to look the other way--that might be the not so subtle signal of the MRLS moves.

BTW that single shot down won Erdogan a high respect even from the FSA so with one move he cemented his standing in their eyes.

Putin might have actually met his match in a leader who can wield power and makes decisions based on his own interests not that of the US or NATO.

[CrowBat]

CB--any reason why your assessment is not making into mainstream media?
I mean it is all there for them to see and analyze but why do they ignore it?
Well, I'm surely not the only one thinking this way. Not even the only 'Tom' thinking that way: you've posted that excellent articlle by Tom Cotton, already.

Seriously now: the intensity and impacts of the Russian PR-campaign does not stop amazing me (only the Saudi efforts (https://wikileaks.org/saudi-cables/buying-silence) in regards of curbing any sorts of negative publicity are more sophisticated). After chatting (even 'clashing') with few officers of various NATO militiaries yesterday and today, I cannot but conclude that Russians are really excelling in convincing everybody that only they are right, and everybody else is wrong.

To majority of people it doesn't matter how much are Russians lying, how often are they caught lying and proven to lie. They simply don't care because Russians are feeding them with what they want to hear.

And that is: all Arabs are terrorists, but all Syrians especially so (indeed, all Syrians are Daesh - except those siding with 'progressive and non-religious grant of stability of Syria', also known as Assadist regime, of course), and Russians are right in bombing whoever they want to bomb in Syria.

When one asks about Russians cooperating with terrorist organizations, answers are such like, 'IRGC...who...? Hezb... what...?'

Asking people to connect the dots between the flow of refugees caused by Assadist terror - and that very flow of refugees into the EU, 'eh...?'

It's like one is trying to talk about higher mathematics with a mentaly disabled person...

Some - and I'm not only talking about members of various East European militaries (all NATO-members; though also renown for their xenophobia) but even about members of various West European services - are acting as if the IRGC and Hezbollah never run any kind of terrorist operations against the West and never ended on any kind of lists of terrorist organizations. It's like that quasi-Islamist regime in Tehran doesn't exist, and like if Turkey is run by a regime that's worse than those of Iran and Saudi Arabia combined...

This is not only ironic, nor even sarcastic any more: just silly, though bordering on pure sadism too.

Namely, the really tragic aspect of this situation is that it's so damn hard to wake up people out of this daydreaming: it took Hungarian, Romanian and Afghan smugglers to kill 70+ Iraqi, Iranian and Syrian refugees in that truck on the highway from Budapest to Vienna for Austrian and German governments to get into action regarding the flow of refugees. It took 130 murdered in Paris for at least France to go into action against the Daesh. Shall I list all the other terrorist attacks of the last few weeks around the world...?

I don't expect anything useful from Eastern Europe any more: they are so happy to consider the EU their milking cow, so convinced of their superior 'anti-Imperialism' (while succumbing precisely to the very same effect they're so proudly opposing), and so xenophobic at the same time, they don't even want to share anything of their new wealth with anybody else.

I don't expect anything from Western governments: part of these is so endlessly corrupt, so struck in their own quagmire, they'll never get out.

But, I just don't dare imaginning what kind of horror is necessary to get Western public to wake up from this daydreaming.

[OUTLAW 09]

Bill--more of these types of reports are now flowing in and I personally do not see Erdogan deciding he can ignore them--the RuAF is now getting up front and personal and in the face of the Turks---as these reports make it into the Turkish MSM Erdogan will have no other choice but to act.

Killing ethnic Turks will haunt Putin as he was the one who complained he needed to "protect ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine"....

Yesterday an entire family was killed while sitting in their car at the crossing point and the world saw a video depicting a headless young child being carried by her father.

RUAF killed a whole family in their house in Binish village #Idlib.

Russian soldiers fighting for Assad regime probably in Turkman and Akrad Mounts #Latakia (Selfie photos posted to their VK accounts).

Can someone explain how Russians deliberately targeting schools is a response to Turkey?
https://youtu.be/rfLWRttbZeQ

Why #Turkey suddenly needs tanks close to #Syrian border unless willingly preparing to have ground force for #Russia|n S-400 in #Latakia.

Why #Russia needs so many S-400s in #Syria unless seriously intending to down ANY foe aircraft in Syrian airspace

[CrowBat]

Outlaw, every good lie or propaganda is mixed with truth, and it does seem Russia's claim of Turkey's support for ISIL has some legitimacy. What a crazy world, Assad allegedly supports ISIL, Turkey who fighting to oust Assad supports ISIL, Russia supports Assad, but fears ISIL. The U.S. is leading (term loosely used here) an Arab coalition of many nations with many different interests, each supporting their own proxy groups. Pandora's Box?Erm... nope?

The US is NOT leading anything. Private initiatives in the USA do (see this Clolumnia University example), but Oblabla is leading nobody. Precisely that is the core issue here: Turks and Gulf Arabs are complaining since years that the USA are NOT leading them. They are left at their own device, but if they do anything, then the USA meddles by curbing their activites...

In their eyes (Turkey, Saudi Arabia, UAE etc.) this is making the 'USA' standing for 'United States of Absurdistan'.

IMHO, the USA - and its closest Western allies - have to make a decision (and that urgently): either we accept that we've been declared a war, and that we must get involved, and do get involved, and seriously, and then we start sorting things out in our own way... or we stop poking our pinky toe into the cold water while demonizing anybody who dares jumping all in.

But, if we don't want to meddle, then we have no right to complain: neither about refugees, nor about Russians, and even less so when our despised allies start doing things their own way. Then, if we are leaving them without a choice, they can't but do things their own way.

...and then we all have no right to complain about 'our bastards' spreading Salafism of Moslem Brotherhood, or Saudi-style Wahhabism; no right to complain about anybody - whether friend or foe - cashing from deals with the Daesh; no right to complain about Russians cold-bloodedly murdering and ethnically cleansing Syrians (after all, our allies are doing the same in Yemen); and even less so about Turks applying their own ROEs and blowing up Russian Sukhois over Syria.

[CrowBat]

...finally, regarding this:


Columbia University Researchers Confirm Turkey’s Links to ISIS

In addition to the support indicated in the paragraph above, they study states:
The crucial question behind such 'initiatives' in modern-day world is always the following one: WHO is financing it?

Who is paying 'Clolumnia University' for this 'research'...?

Then, somebody is paying Clolumnia to 'find out the truth about the Turkish support for the Daesh' - and is happy to spend millions for this purpose although the results of famed work by waunted 'Clolumnia University Researchers' are little else but what any 12-years young teenager with a cell phone could find out!

Please, ignore the bombastic title and (supposed) 'authoritativeness' of the source in question, and take a closer look at the 'scientific evidence' this report is providing:

- An anonymous 'ISIS commander' told the WP...

- Turkish oppositional said...

- another Turkish oppositional said...

- Turkish oppositional media reported...

- Saudis were providing aid to the Daesh...

Come on!

Have they sent anybody to the place to check facts with own eyes? To interview crucial figures? To check the documents supposedly proving Turkish cooperation with the Daesh? To make photos...?

And how comes this is being published at the same time somebody in the DC finally woke up and made it public:
U.S. Says Syria Is Buying Oil From Islamic State (http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-says-syria-is-buying-oil-from-islamic-state-1448471418?alg=y)

The Obama administration on Wednesday charged Syria’s government with purchasing oil from the Islamic State terrorist group and sanctioned a Syrian businessman for allegedly facilitating these transactions...

...I would be surprised if any of these talking-heads could at least name the boss of Turkish Military Intelligence (without googling him) - although the character in question is a publicly declared JAN-supporter.

So, I'm really very sorry - and please be sure: this is nothing personal, nor am I 'defending' Turks etc. - but I simply can't but take such obvious double standards only with a truck-load of salt.

If nothing else, then for personal reasons. I've been called names for publishing books containing interviews with hundreds of Algerian, Egyptian, Iraqi, Syrian and other Arab pilots and intelligence officers, plus whatever official documentation they were able to provide; my work is caled 'hear-say' despite all possible cross-examination with whatever other sources I could find - while this hear-say is declared 'scientific work of researchers from Clolumnia University'...? :rolleyes:

[OUTLAW 09]

Another US taxpayer paid for Humvee that was to be left for the Iraqi self defense but ends up in Syria being driven by Iraq Shi militia....

Iraqi IRGC militia burned out Humvee in Tall Bajer south #Aleppo

Bombs and more bombs. My impressions from #Aleppo, #Syria in #Amanpour on #CNN.
http://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2015/11/27/kurt-pelda-aleppo-syria-natpkg.cnn …

[OUTLAW 09]

Bill--more of these types of reports are now flowing in and I personally do not see Erdogan deciding he can ignore them--the RuAF is now getting up front and personal and in the face of the Turks---as these reports make it into the Turkish MSM Erdogan will have no other choice but to act.

Killing ethnic Turks will haunt Putin as he was the one who complained he needed to "protect ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine"....

Yesterday an entire family was killed while sitting in their car at the crossing point and the world saw a video depicting a headless young child being carried by her father.

RUAF killed a whole family in their house in Binish village #Idlib.

Russian soldiers fighting for Assad regime probably in Turkman and Akrad Mounts #Latakia (Selfie photos posted to their VK accounts).

Can someone explain how Russians deliberately targeting schools is a response to Turkey?
https://youtu.be/rfLWRttbZeQ

Why #Turkey suddenly needs tanks close to #Syrian border unless willingly preparing to have ground force for #Russia|n S-400 in #Latakia.

Why #Russia needs so many S-400s in #Syria unless seriously intending to down ANY foe aircraft in Syrian airspace

Bill---here is the clash that is like a foreboding thunderstorm on the horizon that one cannot stop.
BREAKING ERDOGAN: I ADVISE RUSSIA TO NOT PLAY WITH FIRE
Kremlin says Putin 'fully mobilised' to tackle threat from Turkey
http://www.trust.org/item/20151128153333-7pkne/?source=shtw …

Erdogan has a vision and Putin has a vision--the only difference is Erdogan is able and willing to defend himself and not rely on the US and he can really get serious and pull the Article 5 trigger. THEN just how will the US react when a serious Article 5 is triggered.

AND here is the catch the Turkish military has repeatedly paid it's dues within NATO and UNSC missions--it would be extremely difficult actually near impossible for Obama to refuse to enact Article 5 without splitting NATO.

PHOTOS: #Turkey deploys tanks and heavy weapons on #Syria border http://sabahdai.ly/CYD6DK - @DailySabah
pic.twitter.com/Hbh8BYThxW

Turkey to deploy land based radar/electronic warfare system KORAL on the #Syria border - @metesohtaoglu
pic.twitter.com/wjH4gUpo9W

Footage
#Talbiseh Hospital, dozens wounded including @SyriaCivilDef member, #SAA barrel bombs #Zafranah #Syria Nov28

SCD 11 members of the same family killed in #Binnish village due #Russia airstrikes
#Idlib #Syria Nov 28
pic.twitter.com/0od91ZL01e

[OUTLAW 09]

Many in the West have declared JaN who has declared itself an affiliate of AQ to be a terror organization without really understanding it's role inside the anti Assad rebellion and how it looks and feels like the Iraqi insurgency group Ansar al Sunnah.

AAS was in it's beginnings Kurdish Sunni and fought hard against Saddam when we did not even know about that internal war.

After 2005 with increased loses AAS became a Kurdish Arab Sunni insurgency group.

AAS had an impression fighting skill set and did not fear anything and led a number of attacks that were successful against US and Iraqi forces.

Seriously watch this video and the speed they used to handle tanks and IFV --meaning with a certain aggressiveness that one misses even from Western militaries and basically drove through aggressiveness the Iranian militia units from the battlefield.

Another Nusra "video game" when stormed Tell Bajer /#Aleppo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLdXKEzvEaM …
http://wikimapia.org/#lang=de&lat=35.946466&lon=36.983414&z=15&m=b …
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqe8jYXeiIU&feature=youtu.be …

The way they used the speed of the single tank and the IFV infantry in a combined arms attack would have impressed the US 2nd Cav and once they gained the fighting advantage they pressed and pressed using the single tank and never slacked in their attack driving the Iranian militia from the town.

Hate to say it --looked like a US Cavalry armored charge

Video took me back to Baqubah Diyala June 2005 and a similar AAS attack video were they had fought a three hour battle inflicted heavy losses on the Iraqi's and pulled off the target with not a single loss and then IED ambushed the 3/3HBT who was the QRF.

[OUTLAW 09]

ISIS sells Iraqi & Syrian oil to Kurdish & Turkish smuggling networks, who sell it on as KRG oil, often to Israel http://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/features/2015/11/26/raqqas-rockefellers-how-islamic-state-oil-flows-to-israel …

So, we have for now 3 versions of Su-24 flight from Russian Ministry of Defense
http://syria.liveuamap.com/ pic.twitter.com/G0lqFwxgga
We are seeing Putin repeat their six different MH17 shot down versions.......

[OUTLAW 09]

Bill---here is the clash that is like a foreboding thunderstorm on the horizon that one cannot stop.
BREAKING ERDOGAN: I ADVISE RUSSIA TO NOT PLAY WITH FIRE
Kremlin says Putin 'fully mobilised' to tackle threat from Turkey
http://www.trust.org/item/20151128153333-7pkne/?source=shtw …

Erdogan has a vision and Putin has a vision--the only difference is Erdogan is able and willing to defend himself and not rely on the US and he can really get serious and pull the Article 5 trigger. THEN just how will the US react when a serious Article 5 is triggered.

AND here is the catch the Turkish military has repeatedly paid it's dues within NATO and UNSC missions--it would be extremely difficult actually near impossible for Obama to refuse to enact Article 5 without splitting NATO.

PHOTOS: #Turkey deploys tanks and heavy weapons on #Syria border http://sabahdai.ly/CYD6DK - @DailySabah
pic.twitter.com/Hbh8BYThxW

Turkey to deploy land based radar/electronic warfare system KORAL on the #Syria border - @metesohtaoglu
pic.twitter.com/wjH4gUpo9W

Footage
#Talbiseh Hospital, dozens wounded including @SyriaCivilDef member, #SAA barrel bombs #Zafranah #Syria Nov28

SCD 11 members of the same family killed in #Binnish village due #Russia airstrikes
#Idlib #Syria Nov 28
pic.twitter.com/0od91ZL01e

WHY is turkey deploying this specific piece of EW equipment to the forward border area.......?????

Turkey to deploy land based radar/electronic warfare system KORAL on the #Syria border
pic.twitter.com/wjH4gUpo9W

To counter S-400 missile system, Turkey to deploy ASELSAN developed KORAL intercept and jam and/or deceive hostile radar emitters.

It's a counter to the S-400. I don't know if it's capable of directly jamming the system or its missiles but if it's not then it will mess with the systems of the helicopters and jets in the area. It's a way to mess with the Russians in a way that doesn't give them an excuse to shoot anyone. It could be especially useful to prevent the airstrikes on the convoys that Russia has been carrying out since the jet was downed.

As the poster above said, it's an escalation which signals that Turkey isn't stopping the game quite yet. It's ### for tat and until one side let's the other get the last word it's a powder keg.

The fall of Idlib was also partially due to SAA communications being jammed, they couldn't coordinate their defense. Probably Turkey behind that one.

Reference Russian EW capacity........

Hodges acknowledged that US troops are learning from Ukrainians about Russia's jamming capability, its ranges, types and the ways it has been employed. He has previously described the quality and sophistication of Russian electronic warfare as "eye-watering."

The US, Buckhout said, lacks a significant electronic attack capability.
"We have great signals intelligence, and we can listen all day long, but we can't shut them down one-tenth to the degree they can us," she said. "We are very unprotected from their attacks on our network."

Source: http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/policy-budget/warfare/2015/08/02/us-army-ukraine-russia-electronic-warfare/30913397/

further reading: http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/10/21/russia-winning-the-electronic-war/

[OUTLAW 09]

Putin is not backing down and is provoking Turkey---he does not realize he is sitting on the shorter leverage...he does not control the 1936 treaty agreements......

Russian reconnaissance plane Tu-214R 65415 today monitored coastal line of Ukr and Turkey
http://liveuamap.com/en/2015/27-november-russian-reconnaissance-plane-tu214r-65415-today …

Reference Syrian Express.....
#ВМФ BF Korolev 130 transits southbound Bosphorus WITHOUT courtesy Turkish flag

It should have hoisted a courtesy flag. It's a diplomatic insult

Russia and #ВМФ follow courtesy flag tradition very meticulously. I am certain that this is not an oversight

This is #ВМФ BF Korolev 130’s 9th Syria deployment in 2015. LST clearly showing wear&tear of the Syrian campaign

More Syrian Express.....
BF Korolev transits next to Novorossiysk-bound Bahamas flag tanker Hamilton Spirit at the Bosphorus’ 80° curve

[OUTLAW 09]

A SyAAF Su-24MK2. The first confirmed MANPADS kill of a jet in Syrian Civil War.
https://twitter.com/thisdayinsyria/status/670627155068461056 …

A day earlier, on 27 Nov 2012, a Mi-17 helicopter was downed by a MANPADS hit in the same area. The famous video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aivamOVdiU …

Reportedly both aircraft were downed by the same SA-16 operator. I wonder where this guy is now...

[OUTLAW 09]

Russia Deliberately Bombs Relief Convoys and Syrian Civilians
http://ow.ly/Vd5aT

Russia is deliberately attacking food supplies for Syrian civilians and is attempting to drive them as refugees towards Europe........plus it reinforces the starvation campaign both Russia and Assad are using and or have historically used ie the Soviet Union against Ukraine.....

Another #RussianAirstrike targeted a #bakery, producing 3500 loafs of bread per day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrELbuZPFcw …

Aftermath of a Russian terror attack on a truck convoy, transporting food from #Turkey.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyhNLdk9WMA …

News
3 ppl died & 10 got injured when #Russia attacked a @RedCrescentSY storage in #Idlib.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-j4Ah57qxEY …

Russia is attacking water supplies for Syrian civilians.....AND this is now not deliberate?????
News
Russischer Terrorangriff im Norden Syriens trifft Wasserlager des Roten Halbmonds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4u2XlYQIGk …

Fire fighters try to extinguish trucks after #Russia attacked another convoy near #Turkey.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBMWX2wh6Uo …

[OUTLAW 09]

News
Die syrische Hauptstadt lag auch heute wieder unter schwerem Feuer des #Assad-Regimes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2wCQ7QSiys …

BreakingReports
Syrian islamist rebel groups start shelling Kurdish civilians in YPG-held areas in and around #Aleppo after YPG push.

7 Pakistanis of #IRGC's Zeynabiun brigade killed in Aleppo,Syria, buried today in Qom,Iran.

FSA Jaish al-Nasr blow Iraqi militia ATGM position south #Aleppo with TOW missile.
https://youtu.be/616hqomUsvI

Iranian IRGC Leader: Iran lost 188 militants since October in Syria.
http://ara.tv/mac7j

It's now official, 67 Iranian officers in the revolutionary guards killed by rebels in Syria in 2 months

Aleppo: when Ahrar al Sham took over Scientific research centre on outskirts of Banus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pY_ui-uTlZU&ebc=ANyPxKqGl-fOOvSFTSaLR8hZY2PYSvMiAr1k_GVO5i56aGkcG5mA_-g8ONX-v9s962aNIcbcsRNJy-cxZe6t2_nBrWhd5H_KiA …

Damascus: Rebels kill 6 Assad forces & repel them in Burj

[CrowBat]

ISIS sells Iraqi & Syrian oil to Kurdish & Turkish smuggling networks, who sell it on as KRG oil, often to Israel...Nah, Outlav: now you're going much too far, you nasty boy...!

You can't post such things: that's not confirming amazing findings of researchers from Clolumnia University, not revealing Erdogan's support for the Daesh but - worst of all - it's implicating even the holy land of Israel of dealing with those thugs.

Alone the latter might result in criminal prosecution of those spreading such news, especially because Israel is foremost renowned as a party that simply can't do anything wrong.

So, friendly advice: you better stop posting such things... :D


[B]So, we have for now 3 versions of Su-24 flight from Russian Ministry of Defense
http://syria.liveuamap.com/ pic.twitter.com/G0lqFwxgga
We are seeing Putin repeat their six different MH17 shot down versions..........and not only three versions, but three versions contradicting each other.

Wait a while longer: they'll find one that's fitting perfecly, sooner or later. :D

Everything is better than admitting they a) forgot to e-mail their flight plan to Ankara, and b) then ignored 10 radio warnings issued over a specially selected frequency, agreed between the THK and VKS...

[Bill Moore]

Erdogan has a vision and Putin has a vision

Incompatible visions are why we have wars. I'm sure we'll naively approach this at first and propose a political agreement where there can be done when their visions are incompatible. One or both side must lose.

Outlaw, on the blog you posted we need to keep Turkey in NATO regardless of their tacit or active support of ISIS. Do you still believe that? If Turkey and Russia go to war, and Turkey enacts article 5, will NATO go to war for a country allegedly promoting fundamentalist Islam and supporting transnational terrorist organizations? Western Europe isn't a unique area geographically, it is culturally unique, and Turkey doesn't fit into that culture. On the other hand, as you argued, Turkey has one of the largest and most capable militaries in NATO. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Syria is a situation where there are multiple wars with multiple actors and it our only objective based on fear generated politics is ISIL. ISIL is certainly important, but there are other issues that also must be addressed. We can only see direct threats, and mistakenly think we can isolate the ISIL/ISIS problem from the larger context.

The through, by, and with approach that we're attempting in both Iraq and Syria has failed, much like it has failed us in other places. That approach can work when the conditions are right, it is not a panacea. What we have done is give just enough support to keep the conflict alive and create opportunity for others to pursue goals that are contrary to our interests. If it wasn't for the massive humanitarian crisis and the fact that this conflict will in all probability spill across it current borders I would recommend sitting it out, but I don't think that is an option.

[OUTLAW 09]

In Iran's Friday sermons they're praying for Russian victory in Syria... Maybe they support Putins "holy war"

[OUTLAW 09]

Shtora can’t be effectively used against TOW if it works at all because of technical specifications.

BTW--regardless of all the Russian hype......the TOW is wire guided and to affect those wires from the tank you would need somethin more than Shtora.......

And Kontakt-5 on T-90 is considered to be ineffective against tandem HEAT warheads by some Russian experts.

[OUTLAW 09]

Incompatible visions are why we have wars. I'm sure we'll naively approach this at first and propose a political agreement where there can be done when their visions are incompatible. One or both side must lose.

Outlaw, on the blog you posted we need to keep Turkey in NATO regardless of their tacit or active support of ISIS. Do you still believe that? If Turkey and Russia go to war, and Turkey enacts article 5, will NATO go to war for a country allegedly promoting fundamentalist Islam and supporting transnational terrorist organizations? Western Europe isn't a unique area geographically, it is culturally unique, and Turkey doesn't fit into that culture. On the other hand, as you argued, Turkey has one of the largest and most capable militaries in NATO. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Syria is a situation where there are multiple wars with multiple actors and it our only objective based on fear generated politics is ISIL. ISIL is certainly important, but there are other issues that also must be addressed. We can only see direct threats, and mistakenly think we can isolate the ISIL/ISIS problem from the larger context.

The through, by, and with approach that we're attempting in both Iraq and Syria has failed, much like it has failed us in other places. That approach can work when the conditions are right, it is not a panacea. What we have done is give just enough support to keep the conflict alive and create opportunity for others to pursue goals that are contrary to our interests. If it wasn't for the massive humanitarian crisis and the fact that this conflict will in all probability spill across it current borders I would recommend sitting it out, but I don't think that is an option.

Bill--here is the problem I see---yes we need turkey in NATO if anything else to secure the NATO southern flank, to bottle up the Black Sea and to secure a large area of the Med....where the US needs to head with Erdogan is to ensure he does not drift to deep in his "Islamist" direction and actually Obama as much as I dislike agreeing with him--Turkey, and the KSA are both strong regional powers that can be used to balance in a normal world Iran......but we are no longer in a normal world since Putin invaded eastern Ukraine.

My concern is that actually Erdogan is simply following his vision and as a regional player probably far more correct than Putin is thinking right now.

In some aspect the tacit IS support was really part of the Erdogan play to disable Assad and get rid of him and lately Turkey was taking a harder line towards IS when we started openly supporting the Kurds which he fears far more than IS.

This is where is gets even more crazy--Putin is indeed playing his Kurdish card and has indirectly agreed to support the YPG claim to a Kurdish homeland in exchange for fighting the FSA and other anti Assad forces--NOT though against IS which has been happening over the last week forcing the FSA to fight a three front war--against the Russian air support, against Assad, Hezbollah, IRGC and Iraqi Shia militia AND now YPG with Russian air support.

AND not a single word from Kerry and Obama........

Russian info war is kicking into high gear and rebel rousing their own society IMHO in event that war does break out by accident via Putin's moves.

http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20151128/1030923106/syrian-army-mortars.html#ixzz3soNAnUH6

Syrian Army Fired Upon by Mortars From Turkish Territory - Spokesman

Middle East
20:07 28.11.2015(updated 20:59 28.11.2015)


Turkey fired a number of mortar bombs toward Syrian army positions, the Syrian army spokesman said Saturday.

"Last night, there was intense mortar fire on Syrian government forces' positions fire from the Mount Jebel Aqra area, which is on the Turkish side," Brigadier General Ali Mayhoub said during a press briefing.

"Commander-in-chief of the Syrian Arab Army [President Bashar Assad] warns of the dangers of such behavior," the spokesman added.

AND then this one.......


ISIL on the Run: Syrian Army Closes in on Aleppo
Damascus urges the international community to force Turkey to stop supporting terrorists, directly and indirectly, as well as to stop buying illegal oil from them, he said.

"Taking advantage of the fact the border [between Syria and Turkey] is de-facto controlled by terrorists Ankara without obstruction supplies them with weapons and other resources for their criminal activity," the spokesperson told journalists.

"Commander-in-chief of the Syrian Arab Army warns of the dangers of such behavior and urges the international community to exert maximum pressure on the leadership of the Turkish Republic with the aim of forcing them to abandon the direct and indirect support for international terrorism," he stressed.

According to Mayhub, in exchange for military support, the Turkish leadership receives "from international criminals oil at bargain prices, cultural treasures looted by bandits in the museums of Syria and Iraq, and other contraband."

"Motor vehicles form Turkey can reach the areas seized by the terrorists without any control or checks while the Syrian authorities temporarily have no control over the border," the Syrian general said.


BTW both articles are blatant lies...as facts on the ground reality contradict Russian disinformation...

We are now at 60 tanks a counting--up from the first 20 deployed right after the shot down......
PHOTOS: #Turkey mobilizes 60 tanks to the #Syria border - @ZombieTVonline

[OUTLAW 09]

Shtora can’t be effectively used against TOW if it works at all because of technical specifications.

BTW--regardless of all the Russian hype......the TOW is wire guided and to affect those wires from the tank you would need somethin more than Shtora.......

And Kontakt-5 on T-90 is considered to be ineffective against tandem HEAT warheads by some Russian experts.

This was posted by a proAssad commenter.....
Exclusive
#Russia delive2r #SAA new T-72 eqpd w TShU-1-7 Shtora1 optronic counter measures system 2disrupt the laser target & incoming ATGM





[OUTLAW 09]

Nah, Outlav: now you're going much too far, you nasty boy...!

You can't post such things: that's not confirming amazing findings of researchers from Clolumnia University, not revealing Erdogan's support for the Daesh but - worst of all - it's implicating even the holy land of Israel of dealing with those thugs.

Alone the latter might result in criminal prosecution of those spreading such news, especially because Israel is foremost renowned as a party that simply can't do anything wrong.

So, friendly advice: you better stop posting such things... :D

...and not only three versions, but three versions contradicting each other.

Wait a while longer: they'll find one that's fitting perfecly, sooner or later. :D

Everything is better than admitting they a) forgot to e-mail their flight plan to Ankara, and b) then ignored 10 radio warnings issued over a specially selected frequency, agreed between the THK and VKS...

CB----

Russian MoD: Turkish F-16 was waiting in ambush before it shot down a Russian SU-24.

http://ruposters.ru/news/27-11-2015/glavkom-vks …

[OUTLAW 09]

Russia Deliberately Bombs Relief Convoys and Syrian Civilians
http://ow.ly/Vd5aT

Russia is deliberately attacking food supplies for Syrian civilians and is attempting to drive them as refugees towards Europe........plus it reinforces the starvation campaign both Russia and Assad are using and or have historically used ie the Soviet Union against Ukraine.....

Another #RussianAirstrike targeted a #bakery, producing 3500 loafs of bread per day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrELbuZPFcw …

Aftermath of a Russian terror attack on a truck convoy, transporting food from #Turkey.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyhNLdk9WMA …

News
3 ppl died & 10 got injured when #Russia attacked a @RedCrescentSY storage in #Idlib.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-j4Ah57qxEY …

Russia is attacking water supplies for Syrian civilians.....AND this is now not deliberate?????
News
Russischer Terrorangriff im Norden Syriens trifft Wasserlager des Roten Halbmonds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4u2XlYQIGk …

Fire fighters try to extinguish trucks after #Russia attacked another convoy near #Turkey.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBMWX2wh6Uo …

Russia has a history of using starvation ---lately repeating it again in eastern Ukraine.........
Holodomor was the systemic and horrific genocide of millions of Ukrainians by a totalitarian Soviet regime." http://www.pm.gc.ca/eng/news/2015/11/28/statement-prime-minister-canada-holodomor-memorial-day-0 …

Raphael Lemkin, who spoke of #Holodomor as #genocide, is declared an extremist in #Russia
http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/11/25/russian-court-labels-raphael-lemkin-who-coined-the-term-genocide-an-extremist/ … pic.twitter.com/SGIwDpTUh1

[OUTLAW 09]

Destruction in the Provincial Council of Aleppo in Deir Jamal town, due to #Russia's airstrike.

FSA's 2nd Coastal Division (Turkmens) retook Zahiya Mount again.
Video via @HadiAlabdallah:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sc3xGVkyjsA …

Statement by #FSA's 2nd Coastal Division (Syrian Turkmens in North Latakia).
Statement in (Tukish or Turkmen)? lang.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nbzod756G4 …

FSA's Liwaa Ahrar Surya: "#YPG (naming them as #PKK) is cooperating with #Russia against Rebels, trying to cut the supply line to #Aleppo."

[Bill Moore]

Posted by Outlaw


Bill--here is the problem I see---yes we need turkey in NATO if anything else to secure the NATO southern flank, to bottle up the Black Sea and to secure a large area of the Med....where the US needs to head with Erdogan is to ensure he does not drift to deep in his "Islamist" direction and actually Obama as much as I dislike agreeing with him--Turkey, and the KSA are both strong regional powers that can be used to balance in a normal world Iran......but we are no longer in a normal world since Putin invaded eastern Ukraine.

This seems to be the heart of the issue, the international order has changed almost overnight, and no one, to include our adversaries understands the current strategic environment fully. This lack of understanding prevents us from effectively assessing risk to our national security interests. They can easily be under or over blown. All the strategic reasons you listed to keep Turkey in the NATO camp certainly make sense.


My concern is that actually Erdogan is simply following his vision and as a regional player probably far more correct than Putin is thinking right now.

Which I knew more about Erdogan and emerging Turkish security doctrine. I don't, so I'm going to be another of victim of 30 second sound bytes when it comes to Turkey.


In some aspect the tacit IS support was really part of the Erdogan play to disable Assad and get rid of him and lately Turkey was taking a harder line towards IS when we started openly supporting the Kurds which he fears far more than IS.

Every player on the world stage has made deals with the devil, to include the U.S. That is simply reality, but there is also a line that needs to be drawn. When ISIS starts attacking NATO allies, it is time for Turkey to cease support or get ISIS under control and keep it focused on Assad (if it ever has been).

[OUTLAW 09]

Russia withdrew from #Chechnya at the end of the war in 1996.
In 1999, #Russia invaded #Chechnya again, ended up occupying it in 2000.

In 3 months (during 1st Chechen War), #Russia lost more tanks (+1,997) in #Grozny than during Battle of Berlin WW2.

Source for this info: "Chechnya: A Small Victorious War".
By Carlotta Gall & Thomas de Waal. Pan 1997.
http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/1990s/1998/no-1129-september-1998/book-reviews-chechnya-small-victorious-war-capi …

[CrowBat]

CB----

Russian MoD: Turkish F-16 was waiting in ambush before it shot down a Russian SU-24.

http://ruposters.ru/news/27-11-2015/glavkom-vks …
Yeah 'sure': and it waited there since March 2011 too... :rolleyes:

Namely, the THK is maintaing 5-6 CAP-stations along the 1,200-km-long border to Syria already since 2011. Sometimes these are intensivelly maintained, really 24/7, other times not at all.

Lately they were intensivelly maintained: there were times when up to 10-12 F-16s were airborne along the border really for days and nights. Additional fighters were scrambled whenever Russian aircraft would approach the border.

If this Russian conspiracy-theory would be right, then all of them were waiting to ambush one of Russians...?

...OK, but: how comes Russians were then as dumb as to fly into such an ambush...?

As said above: the THK and VKS established something like a 'hotline', on frequency 243, on 15 October. This frequency was used because Russians complained their older aircraft (Su-24s) couldn't listen to the guard frequency (121.5). Russians were usually announcing their sorties up to the Turkish border 12 hours in advance.

Because Russians failed to announce that flight, Turks didn't know what aircraft they are facting. And when there was no reaction from these two aircraft (i.e. Russians) to all of their warnings - they opened fire, because they concluded the aircraft in question would be Syrian.

And that's why Erdo said today, that this incident is 'regretable'.

Even then, the THK exercised lots of restraint: the Russian No. 1, which turned away seconds before F-16s have opened fire, was not targeted, although it passed through the Turkish airspace (just like No. 2, which passed through the Turkish airspace too).

Now, imagine Putin's outrage if both Sukhois would've been shot down...

[OUTLAW 09]

FSA 1st Coastal Div blow regime army 23 mm gun with TOW missile in Turkman Mount #Latakia.
https://youtu.be/kGuU8xhJjM8

[CrowBat]

Every player on the world stage has made deals with the devil, to include the U.S. That is simply reality, but there is also a line that needs to be drawn. When ISIS starts attacking NATO allies, it is time for Turkey to cease support or get ISIS under control and keep it focused on Assad (if it ever has been).Deals with Devils are all fine: I would just like to see some serious evidence (something more than, 'he said, she said, and he saw, she thinks..') in regards of _Erdogan_ as Turkish president, officially sanctioning something like 'support' for the Daesh.

Even more so, I would like to see how can anybody think he might get the Daesh under control, please?

That said, his cooperation with Moslem Brotherhood (indeed, imposition of Moslem Brotherhood upon the FSyA, which in turn resulted in complete fragmentation of that 'franchise'), and his support for Salafists groups like Ahrar, and Wahhabists like JAN, is beyond any doubt.

But then... well, these two are meanwhile fierce opponents of the Daesh. While at earlier times (say, back in 2013), hardly anybody outside Syria could even say the difference between the JAN and the Daesh (indeed, there were times when the Daesh attempted to 'anschluß' the JAN).

[OUTLAW 09]

Putin is massively angry he could not respond militarily to Turkey other than the S400s and bombing then civilian targets---which were countered by Turkey deploying a very effective EW system capable of jamming the S400s and sending now 60 tanks, long range artillery and MRLS systems capable of hitting the Russian airfield with his S400s.

So today Russian institutes a whole series of economic sanctions against Turkey--remember Russian trade with Turkey is 23B USD and Turkey with Russia is 6B USD SO I am not sure WHAT Putin is thinking as the sanctions hit his civil society not Turkey.

AND Turkish "payback" can be a such a royal pain.......and not expected.

Turkish ferry operators refuse to load from #Crimea lorries /w #Russian number plates.
https://twitter.com/PolitologNEWS/status/670670607093116928 …

[OUTLAW 09]

Deals with Devils are all fine: I would just like to see some serious evidence (something more than, 'he said, she said, and he saw, she thinks..') in regards of _Erdogan_ as Turkish president, officially sanctioning something like 'support' for the Daesh.

Even more so, I would like to see how can anybody think he might get the Daesh under control, please?

That said, his cooperation with Moslem Brotherhood (indeed, imposition of Moslem Brotherhood upon the FSyA, which in turn resulted in complete fragmentation of that 'franchise'), and his support for Salafists groups like Ahrar, and Wahhabists like JAN, is beyond any doubt.

But then... well, these two are meanwhile fierce opponents of the Daesh. While at earlier times (say, back in 2013), hardly anybody outside Syria could even say the difference between the JAN and the Daesh (indeed, there were times when the Daesh attempted to 'anschlu' the JAN).

Moscow-funded 'news' channel RT started its offensive against Turkey by claiming it's defending IS
https://www.rt.com/op-edge/323539-nato-turkey-kurds-russia/

UK Corbyn appears on #Russia|n propaganda TV channel @RT_com to support #Putin by denouncing #Erdogan. Any questions? https://twitter.com/Sputnik_Intl/status/670673579340644356 …

Russia arresting Turkish students in dormitories. how low #Putin can go, please advice? @politblogme @yurybarmin https://twitter.com/hurriyet/status/670678644222726145 …
Russia seems to forget there are still hundreds of Russian tourists inside Turkey---maybe this is why the Russian FM stated they should come home immediately---but he forgot there are not enough Russian airliners.

Russian Minister of Culture Medinsky orders Tatarstan to cut ties with Turkic Cultural Organization Türksoy. https://twitter.com/izvestia_ru/status/670244447666483200 …

The Turkic Russian Federation regions of Altay, Bashkortostan, Sakha, Tuva & Khakasia were also ordered out of cultural organization Türksoy

Other members: Azerbaijan Kazakhstan Kyrgyzstan Turkmenistan Uzbekistan & Turkey.
Russia is ordering Tatarstan not to mix with them anymore

[OUTLAW 09]

Moscow-funded 'news' channel RT started its offensive against Turkey by claiming it's defending IS
https://www.rt.com/op-edge/323539-nato-turkey-kurds-russia/

UK Corbyn appears on #Russia|n propaganda TV channel @RT_com to support #Putin by denouncing #Erdogan. Any questions? https://twitter.com/Sputnik_Intl/status/670673579340644356 …

Russia arresting Turkish students in dormitories. how low #Putin can go, please advice? @politblogme @yurybarmin https://twitter.com/hurriyet/status/670678644222726145 …
Russia seems to forget there are still hundreds of Russian tourists inside Turkey---maybe this is why the Russian FM stated they should come home immediately---but he forgot there are not enough Russian airliners.

Russian Minister of Culture Medinsky orders Tatarstan to cut ties with Turkic Cultural Organization Türksoy. https://twitter.com/izvestia_ru/status/670244447666483200 …

The Turkic Russian Federation regions of Altay, Bashkortostan, Sakha, Tuva & Khakasia were also ordered out of cultural organization Türksoy

Other members: Azerbaijan Kazakhstan Kyrgyzstan Turkmenistan Uzbekistan & Turkey.
Russia is ordering Tatarstan not to mix with them anymore.


Bill--what Putin is not fully understanding is that all these actions on the part of Russia just keep making it literally a breeze now for Erdogan to step up his support for those he wants to fully support inside Syria.

Putin does not yet fully understand that Turkish nationalism is far more robust than that of Russians who are in Russia and not on the border to Syria.

[CrowBat]

Putin is massively angry he could not respond militarily to Turkey other than the S400s and bombing then civilian targets---which were countered by Turkey deploying a very effective EW system capable of jamming the S400s and sending now 60 tanks, long range artillery and MRLS systems capable of hitting the Russian airfield with his S400s.Deployment of that S-400 site was a long-expected-affair. A 64N radar (something like a 'centrepiece' of the system, though which can be used on its own, for ground control purposes, for example) was in place near Istamo AB (Russian constructed helidrome between Lattakia and Hmemmem AB) already since late September.

So, this was no big surprise as such.

It is a surprise in other fashion, though: in sense of admission of a failure.

Namely, deployment of SAM-sites in reaction to loss of ability to match the opponent in air-to-air arena is a regular appearance in Soviet/Russian doctrine ever since early 1970. Remember: when Soviet-delivered MiGs proved unable to catch Israeli F-4E Phantoms that were raiding deep into Egypt, and Nasser requested help from the USSR, in February that year, Soviets delivered their SA-3s to Egypt, to counter the new threat (see 'Operation Kavkaz').

Similarly, whenever Syrians lost air battles against Israelis over Lebanon, whether in 1979-1981 period, in 1982, or in 1985, reaction was a massive build-up of SAM-networks - including introduction of S-200/SA-5s to the Middle East, in 1982-1983. Every time such a deployment took place, there was plenty of uproar. Each of build-ups of 1981 and 1985 provoked outright 'missile crisis'. Eventually, everybody learned to live with the threat, and beyond that...

Now the situation in Syria is such that a Su-24 was shot down, and Russians were forced to conclude that their Su-30SMs are no solution. Yeah, the type is a super-fighter, with modern Indian computers and a French HUD, fantastic engines and other stuff. It's faster, much longer-ranged and probably outmatching the F-16C, 'aircraft-wise'.

But, not only its avionics is unable to match the Block 40s and 50s operated by the Turks: it's armed with 30-years old R-27ER-1s, well-known in the west, SAR-homing, and shorter-ranged than AIM-120C-5/7s now in service by the THK.

There are only four Su-30SMs at Hmemmem; they have no AWACS-support (i.e. 'SRDLO' in Russian terminology); indeed even support from that 64N is rather poor (it's badly hampered by the terrain); and they are simply outclassed by the THK's combo of B737-700 AEW&Cs, F-16C Block 40/50s, OTOH radars and mobile gap-fillers that can look very deep over Syria.

Of course, not only Turks are going to see this as an escallation: few years ago they moved heaven and earth to prevent Cypriot Greeks from getting any S-300s. After all, the S-400 could reach deep into the Turkish airspace and as irresponsible as Russians are, the safest for everybody flying there is to avoid eastern Med at all, at least for a while.

But, the actual reason for deployment of S-400 is a failure to impress Turks and protect VKS fighter-bombers operating along the border.

[Azor]

1. I gather that for this system to be taken seriously, Russia will need to deploy actual AEW&C systems i.e. A-50s to the region, in order to have the situational awareness to be able to use it if needed.

2. Turkey has over 200 SRBMs that could strike targets from Aleppo to Homs and throughout Latakia. Some of these are indigenous; any updates on their deployments?

3. Is there any open sources detailing Turkish military movements with regard to air defense and surface-to-surface systems, like their M-270s?

4. I'm curious to know more about any Turkish EW activities against the Russians.

5. Could we see Erdogan providing MANPADs and more advanced weaponry to favored rebel groups irrespective of US wishes?

6. It seems to me that Russia would be unable to distinguish a Turkish jet belonging to CJTF-OIR from a Turkish incursion into Syrian airspace. Moreover, what if they start locking-on to aircraft from other OIR members flying out of Turkish bases?

7. Any updates on the supposed "deal" struck by the Russians and Turks to avoid operating in the buffer zone/ADIZ?

Responses appreciated. I know both Outlaw 09 and Crowbat are better informed, and there is not a tonne of English-language open source details on these issues beyond MSM hype.

[Azor]

Bill Moore:

In a “near-perfect world”, Russia would be a member of both the EU and NATO, and Turkey would be a member of neither. However, in the real world, Russia is an adversary to Europe and NATO, and Turkey occupies a strategic location and has a strong military.

Erdogan and Putin are very similar, whether it comes to aggression beyond their borders, hiding behind the protection of nuclear weapons, focusing on foreign policy rather than domestic concerns and prioritizing military spending at the expense of weak economies. Erdogan is not personally directly supporting the Islamic State, he is working to undermine Assad, and if IS can be of assistance, he won’t clamp down on its recruitment and black market activities. Putin did not personally decide to become the air force for the Shia revolution, but Assad is one of the last Russian “allies”.

NATO has been very clear with Turkey with respect to where Article V might apply, which does not include incidents in Turkey’s buffer zone or if Turkish and Russian forces clashed in Syria. Nor does invoking Article 5 guarantee a military response from NATO, let alone a nuclear one. Indeed, there is discussion about how much NATO would actually react if Russia seized portions of the Baltic states.

The MSM has shaped our perception of Syria disastrously. First, Assad was a brutal dictator killing and torturing unarmed pro-democracy protesters, including children. Then he started a war against the opposition, which promptly formed armed groups. Then came the Ghouta gas attack, which almost saw Western forces finally intervene. When they did not, the MSM grew bored. The rebels began fighting among themselves and then it appeared that the entire opposition had been taken over by either Al Qaeda or the Islamic State. The heroic struggle of the moderate Syrian Sunni Arabs against Assad and the Islamists remains relatively unknown, yet the Kurds are appearing as freedom fighters du jour, even though taking the offense against IS might exacerbate Arab-Kurdish tensions. The Islamic State is important to us only because it is targeting Westerners, not because of its atrocities; other groups barbarically murder hundreds of thousands of Syrians, Iraqis, Sudanese, Congolese, Nigerians, etc., and we wring our hands and worry about separating organics from other garbage.

The Middle East is in its own Thirty Years War, and just like the Holy Roman Empire in the 17th Century, one cannot meddle with Syria without meddling with Iraq and probably Lebanon as well. The US wants to contain the uncontainable, intervene selectively, and leave every meaningless state border intact. Combining the Sunni Arab regions of Iraq and Syria into a new state is not the worst idea, given that I believe it would give the Iraqi Sunni minority security and access to its own energy resources (on the Syrian side). But the Kurds and Alawites would want their own states, and in addition to setting a dangerous geopolitical precedent, the Kurdish state would be an anathema to Ankara, Baghdad and Damascus.

As with the Russo-Turkish conundrum, there is the matter of Saudi Arabia, which probably deserves US airstrikes more than protection. However, our ideal ally, Iran, is in the grips of a revolutionary ideology that makes it an adversary. Geopolitics is less about bold moves such as Nixon’s visit to China, and more about taking the least worst course of action: in this case, keeping Riyadh as our trusted partner and friend. As you said: “Damned if you do and damned if you don't.”

[CrowBat]

1.) Agree: even S-400 is useless if primary threat axis is blocked by 2000m high mountains.

2.) I'll try to check, but my knowledge about Turkish military is extremely limited (it was 'NATO so not interesting' so me so far) and Turks are more sensitive about their troop deployments than ever before.

3.) There was even a map describing Turkish Army's ORBAT along the border to Syria... published 2-3 months ago, somewhere... I'll try to find it.

4.) Contrary to USA, Turks are facing S-300-threat since years (because of that Cyprus-related affair, which ended with S-300s being delivered to Greece), and have developed ground-based systems like ASELSAN's Koral.

Koral is said to be quite flexible and potent against multiple sorts of threats, i.e. not only developed to jam S-300s and S-400s, but to jam radars of aircraft and helicopters, artillery radars, and all sorts of comms too. It is claimed to have been crucial for insurgent ability to overrun regime defences of Idlib, back in late spring this year: supposedly, it easily jammed all of regime's comms there, making coordinated defence impossible.

5.) SA-7Bs have been seen in hands of Turkomen insurgents of the 1st CD, about a week ago, so I would say the answer is definitely positive. The fact that the VKS Su-24M was shot down while bombing insurgents from an altitude of 6,000m (whom do the Russians think they can hit from such altitude - especially if using non-wind-corrected dumb bombs in a country renowned for being windy...?), seems to indicate that Russians have got wind of this.

6.) Since Oblabla is extremely unlikely to do anything at all against Russians... well, for another year and few months: nothing.

7.) All agreements from 15 October were declared by Putin for null and void.

[OUTLAW 09]

This proFSA commenter kind of sums it up-------

I was saying that the #RuAF are not very effective in anything more than the #SyAF was, other than bombing civilian markets. Now evident.
RuAF killed over 30 people in #Ariha marketplace. The city is far from clash lines with regime army & IRGC militias.
pic.twitter.com/Gh9PFggtok

Russian attacks killed 69 civilians mostly in northern Syria y'day.
http://eldorar.com/node/91794 pic.twitter.com/l9Mmvu8X8c

Kind of a brutal statement on the "quality of the Russian precision bombing" that Putin and his FM keep hyping to the world----same hyping when they shelled and are still shelling eastern Ukraine.

Israel can still strike targets in Syria despite Russian missiles......
http://www.timesofisrael.com/business-as-usual-for-iaf-in-syria-despite-russian-missiles/ …
pic.twitter.com/BskH3H8CwL
Confirms to me that the US has passed onto the IAF how to counter both the S300/400s--this was causally mentioned in the same media outlet about four months ago when the discussion came up about S300s going to Iran.

[OUTLAW 09]

Reference Russian info warriors and disinformation campaigns......

Must read report by @benimmo and @edwardlucas at the Center for European Policy Analysis.
http://www.cepa.org/sites/default/files/Infowar%20Report.pdf …
pic.twitter.com/lE8QYy7W36

[OUTLAW 09]

Reference the Putin "trade war" with Turkey...........

Turkey cancel ferry traffic to Crimea. Russian trucks stuck in Turkey will be brought back with a Russian ferry. https://twitter.com/kallekn/status/670878991612530688 …

[OUTLAW 09]

Interesting comment.......

Is it just me or have the Russians stopped air ops inside Syria? Nothing on @mod_russia timeline since Tuesday (when jet was downed)

[OUTLAW 09]

MORE Russian info war against the Crimea Tartars....and they alleged ties to Turkey.....

NTV spins story of #Crimea|n #Tatars staged the blackout to make way to Turkish goods by eradicating #Russian ones. http://www.ntv.ru/novosti/1578027/?fb#ixzz3siEgUqgq …

NTV openly disses the leader of #Crimean #Tatars to have direct contacts /w Turkish authorities & most likely Turkish Special Forces.

REMEMBER it has been Erdogan and no other NATO or Western leader who has massively pushed back on the Russian treatment of the Crimea Tartars since Russia invaded Crimea.......no other Western leaders and that includes Obama has condemned Russia human rights violations concerning the Tartars...all Tartars "who have suddenly disappeared" and still are "disappearing" have all tuned up dead.......

[OUTLAW 09]

Russian military conducts the same exact tactic in eastern Ukraine and NOW in Syria.......attacking critical civilian infrastructure which they repeatedly did in eastern Ukraine....

Russia'n airstrikes target purposely infrastructure (water supply) in northern #Syria
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPMAa4bR7jU …

RuAF still attacking and killing civilians........that must be their military strategy in Syria.....somehow they forgot IS along the way...OR Putin was simply lying to the entire world.....

Report of #Russia'n terror campaign on #Syria'n people
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3KcIQr59hk …

UPDATE:
Syria 40 dead after #Russia'n airstrikes on Ariha city in #Idlib province

[OUTLAW 09]

Airstrikes by #Russian on Kafar Takhareem (northern #Idlib) with unknown weapons

This is how childish Russia's leaders are today- Russia's Embassy & the Anti-Turkish Poster from 1915
http://eaworldview.com/2015/11/syria-propaganda-feature-russias-embassy-the-anti-turkish-poster-from-1915/ …

[OUTLAW 09]

Erdogan is calling a spade a spade.....NOTICE not a single Western leader and especially Obama has said this directly point at Putin......

BREAKING: Erdogan says #Russia is supporting the "state terrorism" of the Assad regime that has "killed 380,000 people" - @intlspectator

There once was a standard concept in international relations and it was called "state sponsored terrorism" and it use to be used....since eastern Ukraine Russia/Putin are in fact "state sponsors of terrorism"...yet not a single word is lost by Western leaders on this simple fact where literally tons of evidence exists to make that statement.

[OUTLAW 09]

FSA Jaish al-Nasr blow Iraqi militia ATGM position south #Aleppo with TOW missile.
https://youtu.be/616hqomUsvI

Latakia: Rebels in Turkmen mountains kill Assad General Ali Jilad & around 15 other fighters in an ambush

[OUTLAW 09]

Putin is massively angry he could not respond militarily to Turkey other than the S400s and bombing then civilian targets---which were countered by Turkey deploying a very effective EW system capable of jamming the S400s and sending now 60 tanks, long range artillery and MRLS systems capable of hitting the Russian airfield with his S400s.

So today Russian institutes a whole series of economic sanctions against Turkey--remember Russian trade with Turkey is 23B USD and Turkey with Russia is 6B USD SO I am not sure WHAT Putin is thinking as the sanctions hit his civil society not Turkey.

AND Turkish "payback" can be a such a royal pain.......and not expected.

Turkish ferry operators refuse to load from #Crimea lorries /w #Russian number plates.
https://twitter.com/PolitologNEWS/status/670670607093116928 …

In Russian "Lenta" mall cucumbers "Made in Turkey" re-labeled to "Made in Iran"
http://russia.liveuamap.com/en/2015/29-november-in-russian-lenta-mall-cucumbers-made-in-turkey …

[OUTLAW 09]

Footage
The #FSA shells #Aziziyah,S-W of #Aleppo,with 82 mm mortars.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkQdqBYsIsw …
So still w/ regime!

Al Aziziyah and Maryouda were liberated this evening

Footage
Aftermath of a #RussianAirstrike on civilian / residential areas in #Idlib city.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4qA5WkemWY …

Footage
Deadly #FSA TOW att. destroys Shiite milita Kornet position S-W of #Aleppo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0Ya7eAG5CU …

Rare #footage: TOW crashes on its way to the target south of #Aleppo, hits no man's land.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WttI_58V6X8 …

News
#Daraya is barrel-bombed by #Assad daily since November 2012. Still, it's w/ rebels.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rW5gJ6gKxzY …

Visual confirmation, J.a. #Nusra troops retook #TellBajer from Shiite militias
S-W of #Aleppo

Footage
The #FSA destroys another regime/Russian position in #Latakia w/ the TOW.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grgqs_tZu70 …

Syria, Idlib rif, RUAF cluster bombs on KfarTakharim

[CrowBat]

@Azor,
sorry to 'nit-pick' now, but I would like to draw your attention at few 'details' and hear your explanation for specific of your statements.


In a “near-perfect world”, Russia would be a member of both the EU and NATO, and Turkey would be a member of neither.Frankly (as always), I find that neither has anything to search for in either, the NATO or the EU.

So, I would like to hear your opinion: why? What qualifies Russia for entry into the NATO, not to talk about the EU?

...and what is disqualifying Turkey?

That Russians are predominantly orthodox Christians while Turks are predominantly Moslems?

If that's the only argument, it's a quite lame one.

Turkey is one of funding members of the NATO. For 30+ years, it was serving Western purposes while being governed by various oppressive military regimes and finding itself on receiving end of a proxi-war through insurgency of PKK terrorist organization, supported by Soviet Union and Syria - and run with the aim of destabilizing the country.

Nevermind: Turkey was 'a OK'.

But now that Turkey has a democratically elected Islamist government and is left without a choice but to pursuit its own policy... and when Turkey has the most to suffer from consequences of the Syrian Civil War (mind just how much it costs to support about 2 million + of Syrian refugees), it should be abandoned by these same 'allies' - but not left to act on its own either?

Because of what? Because Erdogan and his administration are Islamist demagogues - minding primarily, but not exclusively, Turkish interests?

While all our (Western) glorious governments are neither demagogues nor opportunists or chauvinists, even less so corrupt, and all their actions are in interest of everybody's well-being...?

Of course, and all of this in the name of 'higher national interests' of the West - which is to stubbornly doing absolutely nothing about Syria (indeed: turning away whenever it only can)...?


Erdogan and Putin are very similar, whether it comes to aggression beyond their borders...Please correct me now, but I do not recall (modern-day) Turkey deploying its military to launch invasions of neighbouring countries, nor launching military interventions thousands of miles away from its borders in order to support opressive dictatorships, renowned for use of chemical weapons against own population.

...perhaps I'm as arrogant as so many say I am, and do not understand how international relations work... but, it could be Erdogan and Putin are slightly less similar than it appears on the first look...?


...hiding behind the protection of nuclear weapons, focusing on foreign policy rather than domestic concerns and prioritizing military spending at the expense of weak economies.The last I know, Turkey has no own nuclear weapons, and - thanks to being nearly abandoned by its NATO allies - it's also not really protected by anybody that has them.

Most of all, right now there is nobody within the EU or NATO to come to the idea that in farsight it might not be bad to help bolster Turkish economy at the time this is going to feel impacts of Russian economic embargos (which, 'just BTW', are actually against several binding international agreements; but then, why should anybody care if Putin is violating these again...?).

Nah, instead, Erdogan is to blame for not only cooperating with the Daesh (for which there is no evidence), but also for not removing Assad when the opportunity was at its best, namely back in late 2011 or early 2012; for not stopping the flow of Syrian refugees to Turkey an then to the EU; for letting the AQI come to Syria and helping its transform itself into the Daesh... and - if anbody would at least pay attention at that fact - then he would be responsbile for the IRGC launching a military intervention in Syria, turning that civil war into a inter-ethnic conflict, and transforming regime-controlled areas into a new base for Shi'a Jihadists and various terrorist groups...?


Erdogan is not personally directly supporting the Islamic State, he is working to undermine Assad, and if IS can be of assistance, he won’t clamp down on its recruitment and black market activities.Yeah... 'just' that Erdo knows better than all of us that the Daesh was never a threat for Assadists. Definitely not as much as for himself.

So, why should he support them in order to undermine Assad?


Putin did not personally decide to become the air force for the Shia revolution...I can only repeat that I do not mean any harm, and nothing personal: but I would like to hear your explanation for statements of this kind.

So, who did order deployment of the 'Air Force Group' to Syria? Governor of Vladivostok? CEO Gazprom? Soleimani?

Or wait, the best explanation: the VKS landed there due to a navigational mistake...?

[CrowBat]

BTW, here the (above-mentioned) map of Turkish Army's dispositions along the Syrian border (see attachment).

Now, from what can be made out from Turkish media reports, majority of about 100+ M60A3s loaded on the trains belong to the 5th Armoured Brigade and are hauled in direction of Gaziantep.

NOT in direction of Hatay Province, which is closest to the area of most of recent Turco-Russian tensions.

Givent hat, as of 'right now', there are no indications for any kind of large-scale deployments of additional Turkish Army units to the border, this cannot even be described as 'reinforcement': in essence, core units already in position are bringing various of their elements together.

[OUTLAW 09]

In Russian "Lenta" mall cucumbers "Made in Turkey" re-labeled to "Made in Iran"
http://russia.liveuamap.com/en/2015/29-november-in-russian-lenta-mall-cucumbers-made-in-turkey …

Let's see Putin now wants Russia to lose that 20B USD NPP deal--well the US GE and the Japanese are in the wings waiting....man losing 20B USD is really putting it to the Turks....who after this will definitely go somewhere else with their business---

Turkish engineers who were getting trained in Moscow for nuclear power plant to be built by #Russia in #Turkey reportedly detained by police


AND the Russian population is going to get what again.....higher prices----and less fresh vegetables in the winter months....

Prices to go up if imports from Turkey aren't replaced
https://twitter.com/rianru/status/670924236563828736 …

SO exactly just how Putin "punishing" Turkey???

[CrowBat]

Now, from what can be made out from Turkish media reports, majority of about 100+ M60A3s loaded on the trains belong to the 5th Armoured Brigade and are hauled in direction of Gaziantep.One correction here: the MBTs in question are M60A1s - upgraded to (Israeli-made) Sabra Mk.1 standard.

[OUTLAW 09]

Aleppo Rebels declare regained several villages for #YPG & allies
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpJvSyjKNYQ&feature=youtu.be …
http://wikimapia.org/#lang=de&lat=36.493699&lon=37.010193&z=14&m=b …
Russian air strikes have been supporting YPG in their attacks on FSA.

.@SyrCoalition represents 70+ opposition groups & works for a political transition to fair elections w/out #Assad
pic.twitter.com/kTVlYTPt40

MORE on the aftermath of the Russian attack on civilians in a marketplace
SCD continue to collect remains of civilians killed by #Russia airstrikes on Popular Market
#Ariha #Syria Nov29
pic.twitter.com/Ao7GjmoC4j

[OUTLAW 09]

Some truth in this particular Western comment.....goes to what CrowBat has previously posted.

This Brimstone missile talk is odd. Syria is like a flattened house & we're debating whether one brand of screwdriver better than another?

[OUTLAW 09]

Heck now even the Islamic State is getting into condemning Russia misguided and extremely precise missiles.......

ISIS media : Unexploded Russian-made missile found in #TalAfar in Iraq.
pic.twitter.com/opcv2Oz3QJ

The UK group Stop the War somehow wants to support Assad and Putin BUT cannot find their own voice to condemn their killing of civilians and the sheer destruction of critical civilian infrastructure YET call themselves "peaceniks"....

Unbelievable at STWC march: "If you want to destroy ISIS... then you should be fighting with Assad & the Russians."
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce47MrGUHMY …

[OUTLAW 09]

BINGO...called it days ago....

Called this days ago here---the initial report was accurate that he had been hit by a FSA TOW sniping team that ambushed his convoy---initial reports stated he had been slightly wounded came from a IRGC close journalist.

BUT this was the immediate actions of key Iranian units in the area of the convoy--they suddenly panicked and fled the battlefield when rumors just rumors circulated that he had been hit--it appeared to me they knew the exact incident and lost heart since their General who "walks on water" as the second coming of a Great Shia General had actually been seriously wounded not "slightly wounded".

My comment was ---he is dead and they are dragging out his death trying to figure out how to break the news to the IRGC and the entire Iran.

THEN there has been since the first small comment TOTAL SILENCE--absolutely nothing but silence and that alone was an indicator on just how serious he had been wounded--no pictures from the hospital where he was "recovering" or from a home "recovery"--nothing. Almost like "Rommel" when he was wounded during the WW2.

NOW this......
Seems #Iran's General of Qassem Soleimani seriously injured in #Syria #Aleppo
shell fragments in his head

BTW--not a single photo of him even being in Syria which he was when he was hit---nothing--he seem to vanish into thin air photo wise.

[OUTLAW 09]

BINGO...called it days ago....

Called this days ago here---the initial report was accurate that he had been hit by a FSA TOW sniping team that ambushed his convoy---initial reports stated he had been slightly wounded came from a IRGC close journalist.

BUT this was the immediate actions of key Iranian units in the area of the convoy--they suddenly panicked and fled the battlefield when rumors just rumors circulated that he had been hit--it appeared to me they knew the exact incident and lost heart since their General who "walks on water" as the second coming of a Great Shia General had actually been seriously wounded not "slightly wounded".

My comment was ---he is dead and they are dragging out his death trying to figure out how to break the news to the IRGC and the entire Iran.

THEN there has been since the first small comment TOTAL SILENCE--absolutely nothing but silence and that alone was an indicator on just how serious he had been wounded--no pictures from the hospital where he was "recovering" or from a home "recovery"--nothing. Almost like "Rommel" when he was wounded during the WW2.

NOW this......
Seems #Iran's General of Qassem Soleimani seriously injured in #Syria #Aleppo
shell fragments in his head

If in fact this is confirmed--it is a serious blow to Iran and Putin as it was the plan of this General that got Russia involved in the first place.

He has a great effect on the field fighters just by his presence much like the US Generals Jackson and or Patton.

BUT and this is not a joke virtually any Iranian field commander that has had their photo taken with him has been killed in the latest round of fighting--it is almost like there is a seriously secret hit list out on them.

The sheer fact that the FSA TOW sniping team knew he was coming and where is an interesting tidbit.

Yes ---Iranian commanders lead from the front but in the end no army can afford to keep losing commander after commander just to lead from the front.

[OUTLAW 09]

One correction here: the MBTs in question are M60A1s - upgraded to (Israeli-made) Sabra Mk.1 standard.

First it was 20 being reported, yesterday that number jumped to 60 and today 100+--think Putin is getting the message????

Actually for Putin this is serious--it was the Russian military in eastern Ukraine that went from 20 to 100 then to 300 and then to 500 tanks--now it appears as if Putin is on the receiving end similar to the Ukrainian Army and he cannot fly enough T90s and or T72s in to balance out the TOW loses and poor maintenance.

Question is does he actually realize the Turkish escalation and if not will he make the wrong move that riggers the Turks into crossing the border and securing a NFZ from the ground?

[OUTLAW 09]

Russian air strikes killed over 40 civilians today at this marketplace and now they return again to strike the first responders....typical Russian tactic--has been twice before.

BREAKING #Russia(n) warplanes RETURN to Market #Ariha south #Idlib #Syria after killing 40+ & wounding dozens https://twitter.com/AEJKhalil/status/670928496466726912 …

IMAGES Market #Ariha south #Idlib #Syria after #Russia airstrike, 40+ dead,dozens wounded by #Putin "intervention"
pic.twitter.com/xpkyrcxFko

VIDEO Market #Ariha #Idlib #Syria after #Putin bombing today 40+ dead,70+ wounded
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoiF1s7k7JU …
pic.twitter.com/ouvojvyw6t

Syrian men weep on bodies victims,killed by airstrikes in #Ariha town,#Idlib,#Syria,Nov.29,photos-Ariha Today
pic.twitter.com/q6XHvx4jS6

Black dark humor..........
Shoigu: #Russia's high precision #weapons hit exactly the market stand we aimed at in #Ariha, #Idlib #RussiaVsISIL
pic.twitter.com/2Chhs40imC

[OUTLAW 09]

Aleppo #JaF shot down drone above ICARDA area
http://wikimapia.org/#lang=de&lat=36.013248&lon=36.951313&z=14&m=b …
http://wikimapia.org/#lang=de&lat=36.013283&lon=36.951313&z=14&m=b …
pic.twitter.com/08lnj83VDs

[OUTLAW 09]

Let's see Putin now wants Russia to lose that 20B USD NPP deal--well the US GE and the Japanese are in the wings waiting....man losing 20B USD is really putting it to the Turks....who after this will definitely go somewhere else with their business---

Turkish engineers who were getting trained in Moscow for nuclear power plant to be built by #Russia in #Turkey reportedly detained by police


AND the Russian population is going to get what again.....higher prices----and less fresh vegetables in the winter months....

Prices to go up if imports from Turkey aren't replaced
https://twitter.com/rianru/status/670924236563828736 …

SO exactly just how Putin "punishing" Turkey???

Hundreds, maybe thousands, of Russians employed by Turkish-owned tourist agencies will likely lose their jobs now.
http://www.interfax.ru/russia/482212

[OUTLAW 09]

Report: Israel Air Force strikes targets in Syria near Lebanese border
http://dlvr.it/CsnrmZ
pic.twitter.com/R5RPL1qraI

2011 to 2015, Assad regime has killed 18,917 women, imprisoned 7029, 7672 sexually assaulted 428 under 18

Southern Aleppo: Rebels destroyed Iranian backed militias weapons depot in the strategic hill in Al Iys dozens also killed

[OUTLAW 09]

BINGO...called it days ago....

Called this days ago here---the initial report was accurate that he had been hit by a FSA TOW sniping team that ambushed his convoy---initial reports stated he had been slightly wounded came from a IRGC close journalist.

BUT this was the immediate actions of key Iranian units in the area of the convoy--they suddenly panicked and fled the battlefield when rumors just rumors circulated that he had been hit--it appeared to me they knew the exact incident and lost heart since their General who "walks on water" as the second coming of a Great Shia General had actually been seriously wounded not "slightly wounded".

My comment was ---he is dead and they are dragging out his death trying to figure out how to break the news to the IRGC and the entire Iran.

THEN there has been since the first small comment TOTAL SILENCE--absolutely nothing but silence and that alone was an indicator on just how serious he had been wounded--no pictures from the hospital where he was "recovering" or from a home "recovery"--nothing. Almost like "Rommel" when he was wounded during the WW2.

NOW this......
Seems #Iran's General of Qassem Soleimani seriously injured in #Syria #Aleppo
shell fragments in his head

BTW--not a single photo of him even being in Syria which he was when he was hit---nothing--he seem to vanish into thin air photo wise.

MEK claim Qassem Suleimani was injured with shrapnel, including in the head, in Aleppo, has been flown to Tehran.
http://wp.me/p4apf8-gH

[OUTLAW 09]

Russia's so called mission against ISIS. But then again, they're infamous for getting lost.
pic.twitter.com/EeJnEL8iiU

Disappeared over the Sinai.
Love to know the story of a def contractor plane w/USAF Spec Op C/S flying Tu-Sy-Eg
pic.twitter.com/pYm1mBLNir

Syria New #Russia'n airstrikes on highway btw Azaz & #Turkey border crossing
http://wikimapia.org/#lang=de&lat=36.623794&lon=37.075081&z=13&m=b …

Solid article worth reading although in German.....
Ex-head of US military intelligence, Michael Flynn, regrets killing bin Laden & Zarqawi, turning them into martyrs.
http://spon.de/aeDec

Urgent
#Russia warplanes carried out airstrikes targeting #Kafr_Zeta village
#Hama #Syria Nov 29
pic.twitter.com/psA4N4ceCW

Urgent
#Russia warplanes carried out airstrikes targeting #al_Lataminah
#Hama #Syria Nov 29
pic.twitter.com/yHWLoZVUPX

Footage directed @Doumamedical Hospital field minutes ago
#SAA shelling #Douma,7martyrs/several wounded
#Syria Nov29

Urgent
#RUssia warplanes carried out airstrikes targeting #Zamalka neighborhood
#Damascus #Syria Nov 29
pic.twitter.com/ggHXbtQbzG

Syria #JaF advance on Al-Eis in southern #Aleppo
http://wikimapia.org/#lang=de&lat=35.994744&lon=37.001610&z=14&m=b …

Syria #JaF take over entire Aziziyah village in southern #Aleppo from #Iran led forces
http://wikimapia.org/#lang=de&lat=35.945980&lon=37.036972&z=15&m=b …

Syria US-Humvee -used by Shiite #Iraq'i militias
in Tell Bajer in southern #Aleppo
http://wikimapia.org/#lang=de&lat=35.948342&lon=36.981869&z=14&m=b …
pic.twitter.com/puQkdxIFsQ

[OUTLAW 09]

Check this: Strelkov recommends Russians not to trust Kremlin TV, bashing Syria involvement
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Bhs9NgrwDg … pic.twitter.com/kMBNVERdip

Strelkov led the Russian mercenary takeover of the eastern Ukraine--had been a FSB/GRU officer but was eventually replaced and lives well in St. Petersburg.

[OUTLAW 09]

Russia's so called mission against ISIS. But then again, they're infamous for getting lost.
pic.twitter.com/EeJnEL8iiU

Disappeared over the Sinai.
Love to know the story of a def contractor plane w/USAF Spec Op C/S flying Tu-Sy-Eg
pic.twitter.com/pYm1mBLNir

Syria New #Russia'n airstrikes on highway btw Azaz & #Turkey border crossing
http://wikimapia.org/#lang=de&lat=36.623794&lon=37.075081&z=13&m=b …

Solid article worth reading although in German.....
Ex-head of US military intelligence, Michael Flynn, regrets killing bin Laden & Zarqawi, turning them into martyrs.
http://spon.de/aeDec

Urgent
#Russia warplanes carried out airstrikes targeting #Kafr_Zeta village
#Hama #Syria Nov 29
pic.twitter.com/psA4N4ceCW

Urgent
#Russia warplanes carried out airstrikes targeting #al_Lataminah
#Hama #Syria Nov 29
pic.twitter.com/yHWLoZVUPX

Footage directed @Doumamedical Hospital field minutes ago
#SAA shelling #Douma,7martyrs/several wounded
#Syria Nov29

Urgent
#RUssia warplanes carried out airstrikes targeting #Zamalka neighborhood
#Damascus #Syria Nov 29
pic.twitter.com/ggHXbtQbzG

Syria #JaF advance on Al-Eis in southern #Aleppo
http://wikimapia.org/#lang=de&lat=35.994744&lon=37.001610&z=14&m=b …

Syria #JaF take over entire Aziziyah village in southern #Aleppo from #Iran led forces
http://wikimapia.org/#lang=de&lat=35.945980&lon=37.036972&z=15&m=b …

Syria US-Humvee -used by Shiite #Iraq'i militias
in Tell Bajer in southern #Aleppo
http://wikimapia.org/#lang=de&lat=35.948342&lon=36.981869&z=14&m=b …
pic.twitter.com/puQkdxIFsQ

Putin may have used deadly Cluster Bombs in #Russia(n) #Ariha murderous airstrike
pic.twitter.com/MhgN21zBNR

Little girl & her father buried together..victims of #Russia airstrikes on Popular Market in #Ariha #Syria Nov29
pic.twitter.com/pri2tTELy9

Death toll #Russia airstrike #Ariha #Idlib may be as high as 60 SOHR says & Russia as usual no comment
pic.twitter.com/tfaSf9Z7w7

Syria: Aftermath photos of today's #Russia|n bombardments on the rebel-held town of #Binnish (بنش), #Idlib.
pic.twitter.com/IClmHjr0mb

Keep hearing that guys from Russian Nazi battalion Viking, leaving #Novorussiya to go to #Syria. Anyone noticing a pattern here?

[OUTLAW 09]

The Russia's Top 200 Lies: (including about Turkey, Erdogan, ISIS)... http://fb.me/7FEmmmFLN

Russian jet 'lost' in Israel.
http://news.yahoo.com/russia-plane-entered-israel-control-zone-syria-minister-101841440.html …
pic.twitter.com/oUFOP9ROeJ

Syria.: Russian Su-24 jet penetrates 1.6km into #Israel. Pilot or @walmart-grade GPS error?
http://news.yahoo.com/russia-plane-entered-israel-control-zone-syria-minister-101841440.html …
pic.twitter.com/DY52j5Vsbq

Syria #Aleppo Rebels burned flags of #SDF(offshoot of #YPG)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qK31yQYxRRY …
http://wikimapia.org/#lang=de&lat=36.488040&lon=37.016029&z=14&m=b … pic.twitter.com/UxKurTJZoo

[OUTLAW 09]

IMHO Russian should reign itself in as it fully does not understand the not so subtle threat voiced by the Turkish PM today----another SU24 incident can in fact happen again....and if that is a not so subtle threat I do not know then what a nation state threat is ---short of a war declaration.

AT some point the Turkish street which is proud and nationalistic will be demanding Turkish troops in Syria and I do not think Putin wants an open tank on tank conflict with a NATO member.

Turkish lecturer on being detained 15 hours in Moscow airport, questioned, yelled at by police & sent back @adagamov http://mirror574.graniru.info/Politics/Russia/m.246370.html …

[OUTLAW 09]

Syria #Hama #JaF overrunned several checkpoints in outskirts of Maan
http://wikimapia.org/#lang=de&lat=35.363856&lon=36.801968&z=14&m=b …

Syria's Assad says his enemies increasing support for insurgents http://reut.rs/1Q6gS2y

Syria video of clashes in northen #Aleppo villages
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hisuBp5GcfQ …

The worst #FSA / #YPG (as #SDF) relations since the beginning of war, after #Russia backed #SDF's failed offensive against #Aleppo Rebels.

FSA's Suqur Jabal Brigade burned Jaysh al-Thuwar & SDF's flags after they fled from Kashtaar, North #Aleppo.

Jaish al-Fath attack IRGC militia in Tall Banjira south al-Hader with improved Sham IRAM.
https://youtu.be/ARqXVQoL8jM

[OUTLAW 09]

Putin may have used deadly Cluster Bombs in #Russia(n) #Ariha murderous airstrike
pic.twitter.com/MhgN21zBNR

Little girl & her father buried together..victims of #Russia airstrikes on Popular Market in #Ariha #Syria Nov29
pic.twitter.com/pri2tTELy9

Death toll #Russia airstrike #Ariha #Idlib may be as high as 60 SOHR says & Russia as usual no comment
pic.twitter.com/tfaSf9Z7w7

Syria: Aftermath photos of today's #Russia|n bombardments on the rebel-held town of #Binnish (بنش), #Idlib.
pic.twitter.com/IClmHjr0mb

Keep hearing that guys from Russian Nazi battalion Viking, leaving #Novorussiya to go to #Syria. Anyone noticing a pattern here?

PHOTO: Russian Su-34 jet over Ariha where at least 40 people were killed today #Syria
https://www.facebook.com/kalednoorjabalALzaweya/photos/a.619258294842471.1073741828.618520868249547/719338928167740/?type=3&theater …

[OUTLAW 09]

Hundreds die in Sednaya military prison due to torture, disease, malnutrition: former prisoner | ZAMAN ALWSL -
http://goo.gl/aH7irx

[OUTLAW 09]

FSA Tajammu al-Izza send TOW missile through the window & blow regime army 57mm cannon #Hama
https://youtu.be/lZPtSauRFm8

[OUTLAW 09]

Jaish al-Fath attack IRGC militia in Tall Banjira south al-Hader with improved Sham IRAM.
https://youtu.be/ARqXVQoL8jM

Jaish al-Fath pounding Tall Banjirah & Aziziya south al-Hader. Reports IRGC militia started retreating to Tall Dadinhttp://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=35.944833&lon=37.059417&z=15&m=b …

FSA Tajammu al-Izza send TOW missile through the window & blow regime army 57mm cannon #Hama
https://youtu.be/lZPtSauRFm8

[OUTLAW 09]

Ah.........appears Russia conveniently "forgot" the past........Putin flips out over the Turks BUT exactly WHAT did he do in 2008??

Russian soldiers in Georgia in 2008 shoot pilot parachuting from downed Su-25
https://youtu.be/7bRWTsr-kTs
pic.twitter.com/YVugwfc1zO

[OUTLAW 09]

Just why is it so important for the Russian info warriors to connect the Ukraine to IS---this is the fourth attempt in the last ten days.

And more, this time by TV Channel of Russian Ministry of Defence Zvezda.
"Ukraine buys ISIS oil in Turkey".
pic.twitter.com/dJYLtYkXqS

[OUTLAW 09]

MORE Russian info warrior altered state of reality.......

Russian propaganda media NTV: Turkey could face fate of Ukraine after "hit".
pic.twitter.com/LBDeVLWJCe

"Treacherous Aggression": how Russian TV's weekly news review describes Turkey's shooting down of a SU-24
pic.twitter.com/hFoDC8Gj6I

Refugees - turkish special operation". For the russian TV, the arrival of refugees in EU is a turkish conspiracy
pic.twitter.com/x945BiFypq

[OUTLAW 09]

Good reason to be in NATO......
RU ex-PM #Stepashin: "If #Turkey wasn't a #NATO member, RU forces were already there in #Istanbul" The best advertisement for NATO

"These sadistic Turks" As of 7:00 AM Rossiya24 "break the news" of Turkish driver mowing down a Russian boy,
killing pic.twitter.com/uIftjTFHMn

It's the continuation same horror narrative for Russian audience of "Bandera Ukrainians crucifying a boy in Slaviansk school" in April 2014.

[OUTLAW 09]

Typical Russian doublespeak...

Russia called Western sanctions for invading Ukraine an 'act of war'. So what does that make Moscow's sanctions against Turkey?

[OUTLAW 09]

There are severe clashes between the #FSA and #YPG forces north of #Aleppo now ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RNaAAERcng …

Graphic
An #Aleppo hospital after another #Russian terror attack Many killed and wounded.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDfy3TGSwMo&oref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DE Dfy3TGSwMo&has_verified=1 …

Also #Lataminah was hit hard by #RussianAirstrikes, targeting residential areas in the town
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_L_Do1fXnCw …

[OUTLAW 09]

Who does not believe Russia is as terroristic as the Islamic State needs to recalibrate their thinking---Russian has been attacking critical food and water sources, attacking churches, hospitals, residential districts and especially market places killing an average of 80-100 civilians including children DAILY.

Since when can we not declare a nation state a sponsor of terrorism if they in fact copy the same atrocities against humanity.....just as does the Islamic State???

News
Major Russian terror strikes on al-Dana near #Turkey tonight, hitting food warehouses
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKJ2-aEf97A&feature=youtu.be …

New RuAF attack on Bab al-Salama border crossing with Turkey killed 7 ppl & destroyed 20 aid trucks @aboferasalhalab

Putin wants war plain and simple and yet the West just keeps on believing you can talk to Putin and or Iran......

AND Hollande wants to join Putin......??

[OUTLAW 09]

Aleppo: Syrian Rebels capture an Iraqi Shia militiamen working for Iran to ethnically cleanse Sunnis

Daraya: Syria rebels repel Assad regime, destroy 1 tank & kill 9 Assad forces
http://fb.me/44nbsg6lo

Aleppo: Syrian Rebels successfully destroyed Iranian militias missile launchers in Hadhir today

Syria|n rebels advance against #YPG forces in northern #Aleppo, east of #Afrin & captured 6 villages last 24 hours.
pic.twitter.com/zOPy3HSXua

[OUTLAW 09]

Who does not believe Russia is as terroristic as the Islamic State needs to recalibrate their thinking---Russian has been attacking critical food and water sources, attacking churches, hospitals, residential districts and especially market places killing an average of 80-100 civilians including children DAILY.

Since when can we not declare a nation state a sponsor of terrorism if they in fact copy the same atrocities against humanity.....just as does the Islamic State???

News
Major Russian terror strikes on al-Dana near #Turkey tonight, hitting food warehouses
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKJ2-aEf97A&feature=youtu.be …

New RuAF attack on Bab al-Salama border crossing with Turkey killed 7 ppl & destroyed 20 aid trucks @aboferasalhalab

Putin wants war plain and simple and yet the West just keeps on believing you can talk to Putin and or Iran......

AND Hollande wants to join Putin......??

Russia wages an undeclared war on anything #Turkey related in #Syria: NGOs, truck, border crossings, fighters... https://twitter.com/pzf/status/671050032754356224 …

Several depots, processing facilities, bakeries etc hit. Likely related video.
https://youtu.be/hfsJ-gws8Tk

Russia airstrikes on #One_Nation_Relief Warehouse in #al_Dana village,tons of food gone

[OUTLAW 09]

An 'up-armored' T-72 deployed by #Assad's loyalists into #Daraya #Damascus has apparently been disabled/destroyed.

[OUTLAW 09]

RussiaLies
Russian TV: "Syrian children gleefully welcome Russian planes in the sky."
pic.twitter.com/xsPrd3eNKD

[OUTLAW 09]

Russian Orthodox church blessed Putin’s Syrian intervention as a crusade. Jihadists agree.
http://atfp.co/1OnrxWp
pic.twitter.com/QvZtGDh4EC

[OUTLAW 09]

Wheat caravan moving from #Daesh-held #Raqqa to #Assad held #Damascus
Business as usual
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzi-CgP1m5Y&sns=tw …

[AdamG]

Did A Russian Spetsnaz Soldier Die In Syria?

20:12 (GMT)


The Conflict Intelligence Team (CIT), co-founded by Russian investigative blogger Ruslan Leviev, along with Maria Tsvetkova of Reuters, have been investigating the death of a 27-year-old Russian serviceman, who was buried yesterday in Paltso, in the Bryansk region.

Claims from acquaintances and discrepancies in the official account of the soldier's death suggest that Fyodor Vladimirovich Zhuravlyov may have been killed in Syria.

http://www.interpretermag.com/putin-in-syria-russia-steps-up-military-deployment-in-syria/#11255

[OUTLAW 09]

Did A Russian Spetsnaz Soldier Die In Syria?

20:12 (GMT)


http://www.interpretermag.com/putin-in-syria-russia-steps-up-military-deployment-in-syria/#11255

Starting two weeks from the first Russian aircraft arrivals the following Russia loses has been mentioned in social media

10
12
then there was spotted a white refrig container which the Russian military has been using in eastern Ukraine (+200---Russian code on containers/vehicles carrying KIAs) on a returning Russian LST last week
then 2KIA 1WIA in this article
2 more Spetsnaz reported KIA

Suspecting the losses easily in the 50 range since beginning of the Russian invasion

[OUTLAW 09]

Reports rebels expelled #YPG & Jaish al-Thuwar from Shawaghra & Maryamayen villages west Azaz #Aleppo.

This week in Syria between November 23rd. and the 29th. a total of 353 civilians were killed including 21 women and 24 children. RIP

SOHR claim #IslamicState executed 3591 people in #Syria since summer 2014- among them 1945 civilians, 103 women & 77 children

IslamicState killed 975 #Assad-forces & 250 rebel fighters in #Syria since summer 2014

News
Syrian rebel retook #Maryamayn from #YPG forces, several days after Kurds took it under Russian air cover.

[OUTLAW 09]

Russian state TV: "The S-400 protects our planes over Syria now."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hq3Zk5-Tjg …

Footage
#RuAF Su-24 and Su-34 intensively bombed rebel-held positions and towns in northern #Hama today.

Footage
Rebels bomb "#YPG Sheikh Maqsoud line of defence" in northern #Aleppo city.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eo4ou_pTNyw …

Just another #IDP camp with #Russian-displaced ethnic Turkmen in #Latakia province.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woCL5T-ejwI …

[OUTLAW 09]

This week in Syria between November 23rd. and the 29th. a total of 353 civilians were killed including 21 women and 24 children. RIP


Anger in #Ariha after #Russia killed ard 40, 10 of them children, in the city's main market
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVuP14lBSwY …

Footage
Another Russian missile strike hit civilians in the city of #Saqba.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtJzqAW-J-U …

Also #Assad keeps killing children across #Syria.
Daily.
#graphic! #Douma
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfiiPr9wMKs&oref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DG fiiPr9wMKs&has_verified=1 …

[OUTLAW 09]

GEOLOCATED Russian helicopter TOW attack site from 24-11-15 #Syria.
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.6813209,36.0791577,386m/data=!3m1!1e3 …
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROgOqqeQAL4 … pic.twitter.com/WgBkx9drCM

Also ANNA News footage proves Russia was lying about #SU24 crash site. pic.twitter.com/JvalMqgThI

Russia to Escalate Syria Offensive With Ground Troops, Arab Media Claim - http://dlvr.it/Ct70xX

This week's episode of "I Serve Russia." Heavy focus on the Su-24M action. Служу России! Выпуск от 29 ноября 2015 г.
http://youtu.be/pMdY228oz-o

[OUTLAW 09]

Russia "targeting ANY truck crossing Azaz and Bab al-Salma" according to @EjmAlrai's source. Testimony of war crime
pic.twitter.com/n2dd19RqPq

YET not a single comment, word, press conference from any Western leader ie Obama, Holland and or even Merkel........

[Azor]

CrowBat: "...sorry to 'nit-pick' now, but I would like to draw your attention at few 'details' and hear your explanation for specific of your statements"

Not a problem.

CrowBat: "Frankly (as always), I find that neither has anything to search for in either, the NATO or the EU. So, I would like to hear your opinion: why? What qualifies Russia for entry into the NATO, not to talk about the EU?
...and what is disqualifying Turkey? That Russians are predominantly orthodox Christians while Turks are predominantly Moslems? If that's the only argument, it's a quite lame one."

I did qualify my comment with “in a near-perfect world”. Russia is part of Europe. Turkey is not. That is my rationale for inclusion in the EU. Otherwise we might as well admit Africa. The rationale is of course cultural, as the EU already includes Eastern Orthodox countries, and I would argue that Islam is not European and in fact anti-European. I would also argue that Turkey belongs in the Middle East and Central Asia, and in whatever intergovernmental organizations emerge there. As for NATO, I believe it is important to include an evolved Russia into our security architecture, which will finally resolve the legacy of intra-European wars.

CrowBat: "Turkey is one of funding members of the NATO. For 30+ years, it was serving Western purposes while being governed by various oppressive military regimes and finding itself on receiving end of a proxi-war through insurgency of PKK terrorist organization, supported by Soviet Union and Syria - and run with the aim of destabilizing the country. But now that Turkey has a democratically elected Islamist government and is left without a choice but to pursuit its own policy... and when Turkey has the most to suffer from consequences of the Syrian Civil War (mind just how much it costs to support about 2 million + of Syrian refugees), it should be abandoned by these same 'allies' - but not left to act on its own either? Because of what? Because Erdogan and his administration are Islamist demagogues - minding primarily, but not exclusively, Turkish interests?”

Yes, it was important to include Turkey in NATO decades ago. The PKK was not simply an instrument of foreign powers; the Kurds have been struggling for independence against Turkey, Iraq and Iran. And the oppressive military regimes resemble those of our more unsavory allies rather than our closest partners. Erdogan and Putin have both had similar choices: improve the economy and wellbeing of their citizens, or engage in foreign intrigues and showmanship. The “democratically elected Islamist” government is gradually concentrating power in an undemocratic fashion. Turkey is of course sensitive to the Syrian Civil War, but has not been acting to quell it; on the contrary it has been acting to oust Assad, no matter the cost. In my opinion, Turkey is using NATO membership as a shield and then involving itself in intrigues throughout Central Asia, and intervening heavily in the Civil War, albeit not to the degree of Iran and Russia. As a helpful example, I would want the US to have a strong friendship and trade with Brazil, but I wouldn’t want Brazil in NAFTA.

CrowBat: “While all our (Western) glorious governments are neither demagogues nor opportunists or chauvinists, even less so corrupt, and all their actions are in interest of everybody's well-being...? Of course, and all of this in the name of 'higher national interests' of the West - which is to stubbornly doing absolutely nothing about Syria (indeed: turning away whenever it only can)...?”

I never said Western governments were “glorious”. But they are vastly more open and democratic than Turkey’s. And public opinion is against intervening in Syria against Assad, even after the Ghouta gas attack. On the one hand Turkey wants to be an unconstrained regional power, and look towards Islam and its “Turkic” brethren; on the other, it wants NATO protection and to use Europe as a dumping ground for its unemployed young men.

CrowBat: “Please correct me now, but I do not recall (modern-day) Turkey deploying its military to launch invasions of neighbouring countries, nor launching military interventions thousands of miles away from its borders in order to support opressive dictatorships, renowned for use of chemical weapons against own population...perhaps I'm as arrogant as so many say I am, and do not understand how international relations work... but, it could be Erdogan and Putin are slightly less similar than it appears on the first look...?”

All valid points. Yet I think personally they are very similar, even if one is constrained and one is not. Erdogan, however, is more reminiscent of the earlier Putin presidency.

CrowBat: “The last I know, Turkey has no own nuclear weapons, and - thanks to being nearly abandoned by its NATO allies - it's also not really protected by anybody that has them.”

Turkey has US nuclear bombs which act as a major tripwire (if NATO membership didn’t already) to a foreign aggressor. Again, I don’t know how Turkey’s been abandoned.

CrowBat: “Most of all, right now there is nobody within the EU or NATO to come to the idea that in farsight it might not be bad to help bolster Turkish economy at the time this is going to feel impacts of Russian economic embargos (which, 'just BTW', are actually against several binding international agreements; but then, why should anybody care if Putin is violating these again...?).”

That would be a good idea, and would help with NATO solidarity. Yet I think some in NATO feel that Turkey and the Baltics are expendable.

CrowBat: “Nah, instead, Erdogan is to blame for not only cooperating with the Daesh (for which there is no evidence), but also for not removing Assad when the opportunity was at its best, namely back in late 2011 or early 2012; for not stopping the flow of Syrian refugees to Turkey an then to the EU; for letting the AQI come to Syria and helping its transform itself into the Daesh... and - if anbody would at least pay attention at that fact - then he would be responsbile for the IRGC launching a military intervention in Syria, turning that civil war into a inter-ethnic conflict, and transforming regime-controlled areas into a new base for Shi'a Jihadists and various terrorist groups...?”

I never said Erdogan is to blame for everything, but he’s up to his neck in the Syrian Civil War and the expansion of IS. Given the black market dealings with IS, porous borders, reluctance to focus on IS over Assad, attacks on Kurds fighting IS, and supplying AQ-affiliated groups fighting Assad, it is difficult to view Turkey as a victim. Is he as dirty as Iran or Russia or pro-regime forces? Absolutely not.

CrowBat: “Yeah... 'just' that Erdo knows better than all of us that the Daesh was never a threat for Assadists. Definitely not as much as for himself.”

Erdogan would have been better off clamping down on the flow of jihadis and jihadi trade across Turkish borders, supplying only the FSA and working out some arrangement with Iraq over a future Kurdish state or cross-border autonomous region – which would have struck a blow at Iran as well. Now THAT would have been farsighted.

CrowBat: “So, who did order deployment of the 'Air Force Group' to Syria? Governor of Vladivostok? CEO Gazprom? Soleimani? Or wait, the best explanation: the VKS landed there due to a navigational mistake...?”

That’s what happens when your aircraft rely on Garmin for navigation. Because Putin has fun playing internationally spoiler, he sometimes forgets Russia’s true interests. Russia could have helped with a diplomatic solution years ago, made inroads with Sunni Arab Syrians whilst protecting Shia/Alawite allies, and helped destroy Chechen jihadis with IS. Instead, he’s earned the hatred of the Sunni world. And in return for a temporary toehold in Latakia, he risks turning the Black Sea into a lake…To me Iran has been the biggest beneficiary of Russian foreign policy over the past couple of years.

[OUTLAW 09]

Russia'n unexploded tacitical missile fell on field in #Idlib #Syria

Footage
Women @SyriaCivilDef course in #Daraa province.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E327iZVufHo …

Footage
Military organisation and training of the "#Homs liberation movement".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_txw6m_iZ0 …

Footage
The #FSA's "air defence system" ...
Not working, imho.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbwHA8egXEE …

Footage
#Azaz in ruins after several days of intense #RussianAirstrikes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNs601bREc4 …

[OUTLAW 09]

More and more former "friends of Syria" side with the worst enemies of #Syria, namely Assad, Khamenei and Putin.
So much for our "values"...

Stunning comment from the German minister of Defense who stated she could see the German Army fighting with Assad, Russian and I guess she also means Iran, Hezbollah and the 14 Iraqi Shia militias against the FSA---am anticipating she really did not mean Islamic State because Assad and Putin are not fighting IS..

In German....well worth reading.....
Verteidigungsministerin von der Leyen will, dass Bundeswehr gemeinsam mit Assads Gasmrder-Armee kmpft. #Sprachlos
http://m.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/a-1065159.html#spRedirectedFrom=www&referrrer=https://www.google.de/

Jo Cox MP ‏@Jo_Cox1 · Nov 29
My piece on #Syria in today's @DailyMirror - if we don't tackle Assad we will never defeat the evil of #ISIS
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/dont-tackle-assad-well-never-6921664 …

[OUTLAW 09]

Putin is acting in #Syria as he did in Chechnya except this time social media track him w his #warcrimes

Killing civilians with dumb bomb specific strikes-attacks with cluster munitions and now WP attacks---attacking marketplaces, churches, schools, residential areas, waterworks, bread factories and other critical infrastructure.

EXACTLY as he did in eastern Ukraine and EXACTLY as in eastern Ukraine NOT a single critique is uttered from any Western leaders---in fact they are all lining up to fight with Putin.

[OUTLAW 09]

Erdogan is clearly indicating to Putin the weak point in his Syrian "adventure"...actually it is all about logistics.....meaning the sealift side ie the Syrian Express--if it does not "Express" Russian MUST fly everything to Syria.

Wonder who controls the Straits since 1936?---when Russian disrespected Turkey by not raising the Turkish greeting flag this was a massive diplomatic affront....NOW Erdogan's response yesterday as an not so subtle warning...

Russian ships were delayed in Bosphorus on Nov 29. pic.twitter.com/wgaUO7g1p2

[OUTLAW 09]

CrowBat: "...sorry to 'nit-pick' now, but I would like to draw your attention at few 'details' and hear your explanation for specific of your statements"

Not a problem.



Aroz.....just a few comments.....

Turkey is right now extremely important to Breedlove and the NATO planners--the entire NATO southern flank rests on the defensive abilities of Turkey as Breedlove basically stated that Friday.

Turkey which in our eyes acts out in a number of ways HAS in fact paid it's NATO dues by being in virtually every NATO exercise in large numbers for over 30 years--actually in manpower numbers far more Turkish troops have participated in the last 20 years than US troops. AND has contributed large numbers of troops to NATO and UNSC missions--more than any of the other NATO members

Turkey is the strongest NATO army in the entire NATO right now and has one of the most modern AF and AD systems in all of NATO--they even fly their own AWACs and refuelers.

BUT does Turkey dance to it's own tune--yes it does-just because it is a NATO member it does envision for itself a regional power role far different than say Germany, the UK, Denmark or Holland---heck even France attempts to be a regional player in Africa and we say nothing.

For the last five years it has been Turkey together with the KSA who has repeatedly stated Assad is the problem NOT IS--IS has killed and or driven out as refugees far far fewer Syrians than Assad has and it is Assad who gassed his own people and drops barrel bombs on them AFTER Putin claimed he told Assad to stop.

If we take the Putin Doctrine that he stated in his Duma speech right after Crimea---meaning "I have the right to defend ethnic Russians anywhere in the world" THEN why does it it sound crazy when Turkey says the same thing for the Turkman border region???

Why is that?

take a look at the Kurds inside the SDF the US openly claims to have been supporting--they basically started attacking Arab towns and villages under FSA control USING Russian flown air strikes SUPPOSEDLY against Is positions---did the US reign them in---no took the Turkish supported FSA to kick them out after they killed over 20 civilians in one town they had taken over---so the US sponsored SDF is now fighting for Assad and Putin---and yet we worry about Erdogan.

Erdogan IMO did tacitly support IS as a tactical weapon against Assad --that was until they saw that IS is far more aligned with Assad and actually now Russia thus the early support although lately that is clearly not the case. But

There was a great read today in the Al Jazeera online in English over the role of Turkey in Syria that I should have linked to--will go back and find it and post it.

Turkey has a vital role as a regional Sunni front line state in Syria next to the other Sunni Front States that needs to not be diminished but supported.

Right now Putin has gone full into a Sunni Shia religious global conflict whether he thinks he has not ---we are seeing the true conflict being fought now with actually IS as the excuse but in reality it is about the Shia revolutionary Islam and the green corridor from Iran to Lebanon.

Do not know if you had read the article I posted---the somewhat brutal KSA assessment--- actually a brutal critique of the failed Obama FP in the ME.

In over 50 years I have never seen a staunch US ally critique the US so badlly---an eye opener that never made it into the US MSM--wonder why.

When the KSA states we are in the Sunni Shia war--we need to perk up and pay attention --IS again is a secondary issue.

[OUTLAW 09]

I am posting this to read as an interesting take on Turkish actions......what is interesting is that it totally critiques Erdogan but fails to mention a single point on Putin's actions --using is air strikes to drive far more Syrians into IDP camps and become refugees fueling the issue even further for the EU.

NOR does it actually indicate that Turkey is handling right now over 2M refugees using their own budget and nothing from the US or the EU for now over four years.

It uses the term "rash shot down" but then CrowBat's comments yesterday that Russia failed completely in filing their flight plans with the Turks is not mentioned anywhere in the article.

Many international aviation individuals have also pointed to mistakes made by the RuAF and the RuAF has now three different stories concerning the shot down MUCH in the same fashion as their six stories for the reasons THEY were not involved in their actual shot down of MH17 and yes they did shot it down just as they knew they made mistakes over Turkey BUT hey in typical Putin fashion---"it was the others not me".

A similar article released out of Israel was a not so subtle critique of the Turks as "they" allowed a Russian jet to fly 1.5 miles inside Israel and did not shot it down---NOwhere in the article was it mentioned that Israel has had say countless flights crossing over such as the case has been for Turkey--if they had had those numbers as the Turks had would they be so "gentle" think not.

LASTLY closing down the Turkish border WOULD in effect eliminate all anti Assad forces as they use the border for say their TOW resupply and other munitions and weapons from the Sunni Front States---SO why would the writer of this article suggest that UNLESS he as does Putin declares all anti Assad forces to be "terrorists" which Putin has by attacking FSA NOT IS.

The writer seems to suggest that it is better to deal with Assad who has killed, wounded and driven into exile masses of Syrians than say IS who is known to have done far less damage to Syrian than Assad.

Let's not even get into the Russian killing of civilians and the destruction of churches, schools, hospitals, residential areas and critical food and water supplies----IE Chrozny all over again and yet not a word in this article.

There are in Russian propaganda the SIX Ds---deflect, dismay, distort and distract all designed to create doubt and distrust.

So the question--does this article fit the SIX Ds?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/obama-job-now-fight-isis-103000497.html

Obama’s Job Now: Fight ISIS All-In as Turkey Plays Both Sides
The Fiscal Times
By Patrick Smith


Turkey’s stunningly rash decision last week to down a Russian Su-24 fighter jet flying an anti-terrorist mission near the Turkish-Syrian border alters the calculus in the Syria crisis at least as much as the ISIS ’s November 13 attacks in Paris did. It’s time to hold the government of Recip Tayyip Erdoğan up to the light and see it as it is.

The blunt, ugly truth is that Turkey is part of the problem in Syria, not the solution. It’s urgent now that the powers attempting to defeat ISIS face this and force Erdoğan to clean up his duplicitous act.

For the Obama administration, it’s also a question of ’fessing up. What is the U.S. doing in an alliance with a government whose active support for ISIS is now embarrassingly plain? Why, after nearly 18 months of bombing sorties against ISIS, has progress proven negligible at best?

Sigmar Gabriel, vice-chancellor in Angela Merkel’s coalition government, said as news of the air-to-air attack echoed around the world last Tuesday, “This incident shows for the first time that we are dealing with an actor who is unpredictable according to statements from various parts of the region. This is not Russia. This is Turkey.”

NATO appears to know this already. When it convened at Ankara’s request last week, it declined to do so under Article 5 of the NATO treaty, which states that an attack on one member is an attack on all. Instead, the session was downgraded to a consultation as required under the milder Article 4. NATO, you may have noticed, has since stayed well clear of the mess other than urging Moscow and Ankara to de-escalate.

The Russians know the score, too. After meeting with French President François Hollande last Wednesday, President Putin described Turkey’s act as “a stab in the back by the accomplices of terrorists.” It doesn’t get any plainer.

Russian Premier Dmitry Medvedev later alleged the most craven of motives, citing “the direct financial interest of some Turkish officials relating to the supply of oil products refined by plants controlled by ISIS.” Russian jets had begun bombing truck convoys headed for Turkey from ISIS-controlled refineries and storage tanks in the days prior to the attack.

In his not-much-covered press conference with Putin after their talks at the Kremlin last Thursday, Hollande joined the Russian leader in calling for the Syrian-Turkish border to be sealed. In my read, a prominent Western leader just put his name on the allegations Russia has advanced since its fighter jet went down in Syrian territory. All such assertions deserve to be investigated.

On Saturday, Putin approved of an array of sanctions against Turkey, and more appear to be on the way. This is right, and while the air attack is a bilateral matter, the Western powers should take the cue at this point.

That’s not happening, however. A well-placed source in Europe wrote Sunday and quoted “a very senior European diplomat” as complaining, “Europe and U.S. are courting Turkey while they should ostracize it.”

That’s what’s happening. And it’s wrong.

The Obama administration’s recent alliance with Turkey, made official in August, was a crackpot’s move from the first. Erdoğan instantly took it as license to extend his animosities toward Kurds into Syria and Iraq. As Turkish jets bomb Kurdish militias in both countries—leaving ISIS forces more or less to themselves—they attack the most effective troops now active against the ISIS.

Obama’s policy people have had virtually nothing to say about this. Nor have they said anything as Erdoğan, a Sunni Muslim, proceeds apace to erase Turkey’s honorable secular tradition in favor of a politically opportunistic Islamization project.

In another round of his usual catch-up, Obama announced Saturday that he would press Turkey to close a 60-mile stretch of its frontier with Syria through which weapons and extremist fighters pass routinely. It’s weak, per usual. One, Obama is two days behind Hollande and Putin on this point. Two, the entire border needs to be shut, whatever the troop count has to be.

It’s obvious what unites Washington and Ankara is a shared obsession with ousting the Assad government in Damascus. Consequently, the view of ISIS is ambiguous at best. Wrong again.

Tulsi Gabbard, an Iraq veteran and a rising star on the Democratic side of the House, joined forces with a Republican colleague 10 days ago to table legislation defunding Pentagon and CIA arms and training to anti-Assad Islamic militias. This should be taken seriously. Obama’s imperative now is to explain his alliance with the objectionable Erdoğan and clarify just what his intentions are in Syria.

BTW--this quote about Gabbard is actively being used by Russian and Syrian info warriors....

Time’s up, Mr. President. You’re fighting the danger of terrorism or you’re fighting for strategic advantage in the Middle East. Which, please?

Continued.....

But the immigration crisis has fogged their minds. Desperate to stem the flow, the E.U. signed a deal on Sunday wherein Ankara is to get $3.2 billion, in return for turning down the faucet. (Erdoğan demanded an extortionate $6.4 billion, sources tell me, and the agreement therefore includes a clause providing for upward adjustments in the aid.)

Turkey deserves assistance, but loyalty isn’t quite loyalty if it comes with a price tag. Emphatically, the E.U. is wrong to recommence talks on Turkey’s accession to the union—another enticement included in the pact.

Bottom line: The fox is among the chickens, and between the Paris attacks and the downed Su-24, it’s time to get him out.

Some might actually called this piece a Russian info warrior article strictly favoring Putin and Assad. His expertise is more Africa not the ME.

Did anyone notice the writer said absolutely nothing about this Russian air strike yesterday on the central NGO bakery feeding over 50,000?
UNIW / الاتحاد @TheUNIW
We strongly condemn the hitting of IHH's bakery in Syria-Idlib by Russian airstrikes, which was serving about 50 thousand people per day.

OR did he mention the Russian air strike yesterday on a market place killing 40 over which 10 were children and wounding over 100---so in one day Russian AF strikes killed over 100 and wounded over 200 CIVILIANS AND the IS is a problem....come on.....we are missing some common sense these days. THEN the RuAF came back a second time and bombed recovery efforts......

OR did we see the writer openly acknowledge that in six weeks of Russian air strikes 97% of those strikes have hit anti Assad forces NOT the Islamic State.

OR did the writer acknowledge that there are 14 Iraqi Shia militias driving US supplied Humvees that were flown by the RuAf from Iraq to Syria OR that the IRGC and Hezbollah has had a number of senior commanders killed in the last six weeks??

NO--all we get is a "rash shot down"........

So again which of the Russian propaganda SIX Ds did the writer use??

[OUTLAW 09]

I am posting this to read as an interesting take on Turkish actions......what is interesting is that it totally critiques Erdogan but fails to mention a single point on Putin's actions --using is air strikes to drive far more Syrians into IDP camps and become refugees fueling the issue even further for the EU.

NOR does it actually indicate that Turkey is handling right now over 2M refugees using their own budget and nothing from the US or the EU for now over four years.

It uses the term "rash shot down" but then CrowBat's comments yesterday that Russia failed completely in filing their flight plans with the Turks is not mentioned anywhere in the article.

Many international aviation individuals have also pointed to mistakes made by the RuAF and the RuAF has now three different stories concerning the shot down MUCH in the same fashion as their six stories for the reasons THEY were not involved in their actual shot down of MH17 and yes they did shot it down just as they knew they made mistakes over Turkey BUT hey in typical Putin fashion---"it was the others not me".

A similar article released out of Israel was a not so subtle critique of the Turks as "they" allowed a Russian jet to fly 1.5 miles inside Israel and did not shot it down---NOwhere in the article was it mentioned that Israel has had say countless flights crossing over such as the case has been for Turkey--if they had had those numbers as the Turks had would they be so "gentle" think not.

LASTLY closing down the Turkish border WOULD in effect eliminate all anti Assad forces as they use the border for say their TOW resupply and other munitions and weapons from the Sunni Front States---SO why would the writer of this article suggest that UNLESS he as does Putin declares all anti Assad forces to be "terrorists" which Putin has by attacking FSA NOT IS.

The writer seems to suggest that it is better to deal with Assad who has killed, wounded and driven into exile masses of Syrians than say IS who is known to have done far less damage to Syrian than Assad.

Let's not even get into the Russian killing of civilians and the destruction of churches, schools, hospitals, residential areas and critical food and water supplies----IE Chrozny all over again and yet not a word in this article.

There are in Russian propaganda the SIX Ds---deflect, dismay, distort and distract all designed to create doubt and distrust.

So the question--does this article fit the SIX Ds?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/obama-job-now-fight-isis-103000497.html

Obama’s Job Now: Fight ISIS All-In as Turkey Plays Both Sides
The Fiscal Times
By Patrick Smith

"No country should ask us to apologize." Turkey remains defiant over Russian jet:
http://reut.rs/1MQ5Cow
pic.twitter.com/q2Nmdd6BNe

If Putin is waiting for an apology from Erdogan then he doesn't know Erdogan very well
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/574207d9b55442f0aa05b516c3852a32/pm-turkey-wont-apologize-russia-over-downing-jet …

Russian sanctions on Turkey won't include industrial goods. Likely Moscow realized how much it depends on them. http://ria.ru/economy/20151130/1332708063.html …

[OUTLAW 09]

I am posting this to read as an interesting take on Turkish actions......what is interesting is that it totally critiques Erdogan but fails to mention a single point on Putin's actions --using is air strikes to drive far more Syrians into IDP camps and become refugees fueling the issue even further for the EU.

NOR does it actually indicate that Turkey is handling right now over 2M refugees using their own budget and nothing from the US or the EU for now over four years.

It uses the term "rash shot down" but then CrowBat's comments yesterday that Russia failed completely in filing their flight plans with the Turks is not mentioned anywhere in the article.

Many international aviation individuals have also pointed to mistakes made by the RuAF and the RuAF has now three different stories concerning the shot down MUCH in the same fashion as their six stories for the reasons THEY were not involved in their actual shot down of MH17 and yes they did shot it down just as they knew they made mistakes over Turkey BUT hey in typical Putin fashion---"it was the others not me".

A similar article released out of Israel was a not so subtle critique of the Turks as "they" allowed a Russian jet to fly 1.5 miles inside Israel and did not shot it down---NOwhere in the article was it mentioned that Israel has had say countless flights crossing over such as the case has been for Turkey--if they had had those numbers as the Turks had would they be so "gentle" think not.

LASTLY closing down the Turkish border WOULD in effect eliminate all anti Assad forces as they use the border for say their TOW resupply and other munitions and weapons from the Sunni Front States---SO why would the writer of this article suggest that UNLESS he as does Putin declares all anti Assad forces to be "terrorists" which Putin has by attacking FSA NOT IS.

The writer seems to suggest that it is better to deal with Assad who has killed, wounded and driven into exile masses of Syrians than say IS who is known to have done far less damage to Syrian than Assad.

Let's not even get into the Russian killing of civilians and the destruction of churches, schools, hospitals, residential areas and critical food and water supplies----IE Chrozny all over again and yet not a word in this article.

There are in Russian propaganda the SIX Ds---deflect, dismay, distort and distract all designed to create doubt and distrust.

So the question--does this article fit the SIX Ds?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/obama-job-now-fight-isis-103000497.html

Obama’s Job Now: Fight ISIS All-In as Turkey Plays Both Sides
The Fiscal Times
By Patrick Smith


Did anyone notice the writer said absolutely nothing about this Russian air strike yesterday on the central NGO bakery feeding over 50,000?
UNIW / الاتحاد @TheUNIW
We strongly condemn the hitting of IHH's bakery in Syria-Idlib by Russian airstrikes, which was serving about 50 thousand people per day.

OR did he mention the Russian air strike yesterday on a market place killing 40 over which 10 were children and wounding over 100---so in one day Russian AF strikes killed over 100 and wounded over 200 CIVILIANS AND the IS is a problem....come on.....we are missing some common sense these days. THEN the RuAF came back a second time and bombed recovery efforts......

OR did we see the writer openly acknowledge that in six weeks of Russian air strikes 97% of those strikes have hit anti Assad forces NOT the Islamic State.

OR did the writer acknowledge that there are 14 Iraqi Shia militias driving US supplied Humvees that were flown by the RuAf from Iraq to Syria OR that the IRGC and Hezbollah has had a number of senior commanders killed in the last six weeks??

NO--all we get is a "rash shot down"........

So again which of the Russian propaganda SIX Ds did the writer use??

NOTICE any interconnection here..........

Ukraine intel reveals details of contracts of Donbas militants in Syria
http://www.unian.info/world/1197906-ukraine-intel-reveals-details-of-contracts-of-donbas-militants-in-syria.html …
pic.twitter.com/hYC5djLdSg

[OUTLAW 09]

Syria #Aleppo Wrecks on highway to #Turkey border crossing after #Russia'n airstrikes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0Y4-Wu3yOU … pic.twitter.com/2eHiFPoIxv

Seems limited airstrikes on (northern) #Syria today bc bad weather

Escalation:
VIDEO:
Su-34 jets get air-to-air missiles first time since start of operation in Syria
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dd0YCn7oRIc …

[OUTLAW 09]

Syrian Express...........

ВМФ RU cargo ship Yauza crossed #anakkale strait northbound http://v.aa.com.tr/483412
pic.twitter.com/BisETyYfAc

[OUTLAW 09]

Russian jets in Syria now armed with A-A missiles, daesh doesn't have plane, and s-400 is not so good? https://twitter.com/lummideast/status/671297130984796160 …

[OUTLAW 09]

Russia'n Su-34 jets now equipped with Vympel R-27 air to air missiles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BzMICtnMK4 …
PHOTO: Flying in #Syria today, Su-34 w/ possible air-to-air missiles - @AEJKhalil
HD: https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/t31.0-8/s2048x2048/12308060_1533097577013870_1826964100772335032_o.jp g …

Aleppo Wrecks on highway to #Turkey border crossing after #Russia'n airstrikes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0Y4-Wu3yOU …

After giving mixed signals this morning both France and Germany swung away from Putin/Assads joint military venture...
Germany & France announce not to cooperate with #Syria'n government forces under #Assad presidency

Son of Hezbollah's Shariah Committee and his wife a Hezbollah TV presenter assassinated
http://fb.me/4g2Tsq5LK
Anti Assad commenter.........assassinated by a covert CIA electrical pole..

[OUTLAW 09]

CrowBat: "...sorry to 'nit-pick' now, but I would like to draw your attention at few 'details' and hear your explanation for specific of your statements"

Not a problem.

CrowBat: "Frankly (as always), I find that neither has anything to search for in either, the NATO or the EU. So, I would like to hear your opinion: why? What qualifies Russia for entry into the NATO, not to talk about the EU?
...and what is disqualifying Turkey? That Russians are predominantly orthodox Christians while Turks are predominantly Moslems? If that's the only argument, it's a quite lame one."

I did qualify my comment with “in a near-perfect world”. Russia is part of Europe. Turkey is not. That is my rationale for inclusion in the EU. Otherwise we might as well admit Africa. The rationale is of course cultural, as the EU already includes Eastern Orthodox countries, and I would argue that Islam is not European and in fact anti-European. I would also argue that Turkey belongs in the Middle East and Central Asia, and in whatever intergovernmental organizations emerge there. As for NATO, I believe it is important to include an evolved Russia into our security architecture, which will finally resolve the legacy of intra-European wars.

CrowBat: "Turkey is one of funding members of the NATO. For 30+ years, it was serving Western purposes while being governed by various oppressive military regimes and finding itself on receiving end of a proxi-war through insurgency of PKK terrorist organization, supported by Soviet Union and Syria - and run with the aim of destabilizing the country. But now that Turkey has a democratically elected Islamist government and is left without a choice but to pursuit its own policy... and when Turkey has the most to suffer from consequences of the Syrian Civil War (mind just how much it costs to support about 2 million + of Syrian refugees), it should be abandoned by these same 'allies' - but not left to act on its own either? Because of what? Because Erdogan and his administration are Islamist demagogues - minding primarily, but not exclusively, Turkish interests?”

Yes, it was important to include Turkey in NATO decades ago. The PKK was not simply an instrument of foreign powers; the Kurds have been struggling for independence against Turkey, Iraq and Iran. And the oppressive military regimes resemble those of our more unsavory allies rather than our closest partners. Erdogan and Putin have both had similar choices: improve the economy and wellbeing of their citizens, or engage in foreign intrigues and showmanship. The “democratically elected Islamist” government is gradually concentrating power in an undemocratic fashion. Turkey is of course sensitive to the Syrian Civil War, but has not been acting to quell it; on the contrary it has been acting to oust Assad, no matter the cost. In my opinion, Turkey is using NATO membership as a shield and then involving itself in intrigues throughout Central Asia, and intervening heavily in the Civil War, albeit not to the degree of Iran and Russia. As a helpful example, I would want the US to have a strong friendship and trade with Brazil, but I wouldn’t want Brazil in NAFTA.

CrowBat: “While all our (Western) glorious governments are neither demagogues nor opportunists or chauvinists, even less so corrupt, and all their actions are in interest of everybody's well-being...? Of course, and all of this in the name of 'higher national interests' of the West - which is to stubbornly doing absolutely nothing about Syria (indeed: turning away whenever it only can)...?”

I never said Western governments were “glorious”. But they are vastly more open and democratic than Turkey’s. And public opinion is against intervening in Syria against Assad, even after the Ghouta gas attack. On the one hand Turkey wants to be an unconstrained regional power, and look towards Islam and its “Turkic” brethren; on the other, it wants NATO protection and to use Europe as a dumping ground for its unemployed young men.

CrowBat: “Please correct me now, but I do not recall (modern-day) Turkey deploying its military to launch invasions of neighbouring countries, nor launching military interventions thousands of miles away from its borders in order to support opressive dictatorships, renowned for use of chemical weapons against own population...perhaps I'm as arrogant as so many say I am, and do not understand how international relations work... but, it could be Erdogan and Putin are slightly less similar than it appears on the first look...?”

All valid points. Yet I think personally they are very similar, even if one is constrained and one is not. Erdogan, however, is more reminiscent of the earlier Putin presidency.

CrowBat: “The last I know, Turkey has no own nuclear weapons, and - thanks to being nearly abandoned by its NATO allies - it's also not really protected by anybody that has them.”

Turkey has US nuclear bombs which act as a major tripwire (if NATO membership didn’t already) to a foreign aggressor. Again, I don’t know how Turkey’s been abandoned.

CrowBat: “Most of all, right now there is nobody within the EU or NATO to come to the idea that in farsight it might not be bad to help bolster Turkish economy at the time this is going to feel impacts of Russian economic embargos (which, 'just BTW', are actually against several binding international agreements; but then, why should anybody care if Putin is violating these again...?).”

That would be a good idea, and would help with NATO solidarity. Yet I think some in NATO feel that Turkey and the Baltics are expendable.

CrowBat: “Nah, instead, Erdogan is to blame for not only cooperating with the Daesh (for which there is no evidence), but also for not removing Assad when the opportunity was at its best, namely back in late 2011 or early 2012; for not stopping the flow of Syrian refugees to Turkey an then to the EU; for letting the AQI come to Syria and helping its transform itself into the Daesh... and - if anbody would at least pay attention at that fact - then he would be responsbile for the IRGC launching a military intervention in Syria, turning that civil war into a inter-ethnic conflict, and transforming regime-controlled areas into a new base for Shi'a Jihadists and various terrorist groups...?”

I never said Erdogan is to blame for everything, but he’s up to his neck in the Syrian Civil War and the expansion of IS. Given the black market dealings with IS, porous borders, reluctance to focus on IS over Assad, attacks on Kurds fighting IS, and supplying AQ-affiliated groups fighting Assad, it is difficult to view Turkey as a victim. Is he as dirty as Iran or Russia or pro-regime forces? Absolutely not.

CrowBat: “Yeah... 'just' that Erdo knows better than all of us that the Daesh was never a threat for Assadists. Definitely not as much as for himself.”

Erdogan would have been better off clamping down on the flow of jihadis and jihadi trade across Turkish borders, supplying only the FSA and working out some arrangement with Iraq over a future Kurdish state or cross-border autonomous region – which would have struck a blow at Iran as well. Now THAT would have been farsighted.

CrowBat: “So, who did order deployment of the 'Air Force Group' to Syria? Governor of Vladivostok? CEO Gazprom? Soleimani? Or wait, the best explanation: the VKS landed there due to a navigational mistake...?”

That’s what happens when your aircraft rely on Garmin for navigation. Because Putin has fun playing internationally spoiler, he sometimes forgets Russia’s true interests. Russia could have helped with a diplomatic solution years ago, made inroads with Sunni Arab Syrians whilst protecting Shia/Alawite allies, and helped destroy Chechen jihadis with IS. Instead, he’s earned the hatred of the Sunni world. And in return for a temporary toehold in Latakia, he risks turning the Black Sea into a lake…To me Iran has been the biggest beneficiary of Russian foreign policy over the past couple of years.

Finally after allowing the Russian info warriors to dictate the shot down narrative......

BREAKING: US ambassador to NATO says #US data on Russian incursion into #Turkey's airspace backs Turkey's explanation - Reuters

[OUTLAW 09]

From a anti Assad social media comment 16 hours ago..........
Mark my words. This stupid Russian blunder in north Aleppo of bombing Turkish/Syrian borders is about to backfire. You'll see. Good night

THEN this three hours ago.......
BREAKING: Turkish Prime Minister has allegedly said that Turkey, Saudi Arabia & others will begin fighting terrorism in Syria - @AJABreaking

Now what should worry the West especially the US does this mean the entire Sunni Front States are going to push troops into northern Syria to link into the FSA for moves in Raqqa and Aleppo?

THEN it now appears that after destroying Turkish aid convoys, bread bakery for 50,000 and a massive food storage warehouse....Russia wakes up the simple fact that under the 1936 Treaty if Turkey feels threatened they can close down the Straits effectively ending Russian sealift to Syria and forcing then airlift which is slower and far more costly.

Tass mentions cancelled RU/TU navy exercise and hopes treaty will keep Bosporous open:
http://goo.gl/vAm0Uh

[OUTLAW 09]

RuAF Su-34 carries electro-optical guided KAB-500KR. Going for dynamic airstrikes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BzMICtnMK4 …

From a proAssad source........
100 Russian jet fighters & a new Brigade r expected in Syria once Sha’ayrat airport is ready
http://www.alraimedia.com/ar/article/special-reports/2015/11/30/639168/nr/syria …
https://elijahjm.wordpress.com/2015/11/30/over-100-russian-jet-fighters-and-a-new-brigade-are-expected-in-syria-once-shaayrat-airport-is-in-service …

[OUTLAW 09]

https://abujamajem.wordpress.com/2015/11/29/top-jabhat-al-nusrah-shari-attacks-jeish-al-islam-highlights-broader-jihadist-anxieties/

Top Jabhat al-Nusrah shar’i attacks Jeish al-Islam, highlights broader jihadist anxieties

Posted on November 29, 2015 by Sam Heller


Below we see Syrian al-Qaeda affiliate Jabhat al-Nusrah’s top shari’ah official Sami al-Oreidi issue an unusually direct attack on top leadership in Jeish al-Islam, the most powerful rebel faction in Damascus’s East Ghouta suburbs. Al-Oreidi’s tweets (translated below) make clear that members of Nusrah’s top leadership share and endorse hardline jihadists’ hostility to Jeish al-Islam and its leader, Zahran Alloush. They also speak to broader anxieties among Syria’s jihadists as they attempt to coexist, often uncomfortably, with other political and ideological trends within the Syrian opposition.

Al-Oreidi is apparently annoyed over comments from Jeish al-Islam leader and religious figure Sheikh Sami (Abu Abdurrahman) Ka’ka’ criticizing Jabhat al-Nusrah for shelling Damascus city after an aborted Russian-brokered ceasefire that would have allowed relief into the besieged East Ghouta suburbs. (I’ve been unable to find Ka’ka’s original comments.) Al-Oreidi reproaches Jeish al-Islam for its own overreach and, somewhat more dramatically, endorses premiere Salafi-jihadist theorist Abu Muhammad al-Maqdisi’s comparison between the Islamic State in Iraq and al-Sham (ISIS) and the “Alalish” – Zahran Alloush’s supporters, or Jeish al-Islam.

Al-Oreidi’s comments are in one sense a product of personality clashes and local, Damascus-area politics. Jihadists have long been hostile to Jeish al-Islam and Alloush personally; in turn, Jeish al-Islam and Alloush have had a reputation for heavy-handedness in how they dealt with local political and military rivals. Recently tensions in East Ghouta have spiked amid jostling over control of smuggling tunnels into East Ghouta and allegations that Jeish al-Islam was behind the assassination of a local jihadist cleric and judge.

These disputes have prompted jihadists outside the Ghouta, many of whom view Alloush as an enemy-in-waiting, to weigh in. A series of leaked video and audio recordings of Jeish al-Islam leaders allegedly plotting assassinations is actually what prompted al-Maqdisi – who has controversially attacked Alloush before – to compare ISIS and the “Alalish.” Now we have apparent evidence that Jabhat al-Nusrah’s top religious official is sympathetic to al-Maqdisi’s position on Jeish al-Islam and Zahran Alloush, which seems to promise new waves of intra-rebel violence.

Al-Oreidi’s reference to “Bosnia,” though, shows that his mind is also on broader rebel-jihadist dynamics. Al-Oreidi’s allusion to his remarks to now-deceased Ahrar al-Sham leader Hassan Abboud (Abu Abdullah al-Hamawi) refers to their sharp back-and-forth over the “Revolutionary Covenant” that was announced in May 2014. “They say, ‘We don’t want the Iraqi tragedy to repeat itself,’” wrote al-Oreidi at the time, “but they are heading towards a new Bosnian tragedy, on Syrian soil. Save yourselves, save yourselves from the whirlpool of the past.” (For more on al-Oreidi and Abboud’s argument, see my June 2014 article on Syrian factions’ “shar’is.”)

The Revolutionary Covenant was framed in uncomfortably nationalist, non-religious terms for al-Oreidi, hence his evocation of Bosnia’s Dayton Accords. The 1995 Dayton agreement is a recurring bugbear for jihadists, who view its requirement that all foreign fighters withdraw from Bosnia (Annex 1A, Article III) as a nationalist betrayal of the jihadist foreign fighters who had sacrificed for their Muslim brothers. (Al-Oreidi is himself a foreign fighter of Palestinian-Jordanian origin.)

Jihadists fear a Dayton-style settlement in which Syria’s nationalist – or not-transnationalist, at least – rebels compromise on the jihadists’ goal of a purely Islamic state and turn on the jihadists themselves, many of whom would become stateless fugitives. In that sense, jihadists have adopted Zahran Alloush as a sort of hate object in part because he symbolizes many of jihadists’ fears and suspicions about the revolutionary context around them. He is, they think, exactly the sort of Syrian nationalist who would sell them out.

This is the sort of angst that will only intensify as regional and international actors push for a political settlement. When the next round of rebel-jihadist violence breaks out, it will likely have a local spark, but these arguments and apprehensions about the character of the Syrian state mean the stakes will be much bigger.

Translation follows. (Note: To the extent possible, I’ve maintained the odd, haiku-ish way al-Oreidi splits his individual tweets between multiple lines.)

#Truth_in_a_Tweet

When [ISIS spokesperson Abu Muhammad] al-Adnani spoke, we saw a thousand pens respond.

But when [Jeish al-Islam commander Zahran] Alloush and [top Jeish al-Islam religious official and judge Samir “Abu Abdurrahman”] Ka’ka’ slander the mujahideen,

Then we don’t hear a whisper.

It’s

#The_Brotherhood_of_No_Manhaj

The disastrousness of what Alloush and Ka’ka’ say

Is no less than that of al-Adnani.

What is the matter with you? How do you judge? [Quran 10:35]

Our Sheikh al-Maqdisi spoke the truth when he compared the Da’adish [derog., ISIS members] with the Alalish [derog., Alloush/Jeish al-Islam supporters].


Ka’ka’ resembled al-Adnani

When he described Jabhat al-Nusrah’s shelling of Damascus after their supposed truce as “foolishness”

Because the regime targeted Jeish al-Islam positions afterwards.

What would he say about what [Jeish al-Islam] did – foolishness, according to Ka’ka’ and his sheikh Alloush – when they shelled Damascus.

And after that, the Duma massacre happened. Is that jihad?

What is the matter with you? How do you judge?

I said it before to [now-deceased Ahrar al-Sham head] Abu Abdullah al-Hamawi – may God have mercy on him: You say you don’t want [Syria] to be another Iraq. We say that we don’t want it to be another Bosnia.

God, may You guide us toward Your religion and put our Islamic nation on Your path

[OUTLAW 09]

IRGC affiliated Pakistani group "Zaynabiyoun" (included in this InfoGraphic) lost around 22 fighters in November.

InfoGraphic - Assad Regime Foreign Allies in #Syria | from around 12 countries.
HD: http://archicivilians.com/2015/09/21/info-graphic-assad-regime-foreign-allies-in-syria/ …

[OUTLAW 09]

Notice Turkey.........

Armored/Mechanized brigades:
#US 9 (+3 Army NG)
#France 2
#Italy 2
#UK 3
#Spain 3
#Germany 5
#Romania 7
#Poland 10
#Ukraine 10
#Turkey 21

[OUTLAW 09]

Footage
Ahrar al-Sham troops in busses on the way to the front in #Latakia province.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw5RbyQ3aoE … pic.twitter.com/uXQIU3u2gc

NorthCaucasus Caucus @NCaucasusCaucus
This bizarro claim that Erdogan is using former Chechen foreign fighters against the PKK has some obvious issues
pic.twitter.com/svvSYMgXZg

Dodgy news sites claiming Turkey is blocking the passage of Russian ships through the Bosphorus, track ships here http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:29.1/centery:41.0/zoom:12 …

This is the fake news channel carrying the fake info.......
http://www.newswatchreport.com/item/219165_turkey-blockading-russia-from-dardanelles-black-sea-fleet-completely-cut-off …

Syria wreck of TOCHKA-U Missile (SS-21 Scarab B) near Idlib.
2nd or 3rd in few Months pic.twitter.com/dOIxKMv53O

[OUTLAW 09]

Russia'n Su-34 jets now equipped with Vympel R-27 air to air missiles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BzMICtnMK4 …
PHOTO: Flying in #Syria today, Su-34 w/ possible air-to-air missiles - @AEJKhalil
HD: https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/t31.0-8/s2048x2048/12308060_1533097577013870_1826964100772335032_o.jp g …
[/B]

Russia deployment of air-to-air missiles "clearly not abt #ISIL as #ISIL does not have any aircraft"-Pentagon's Capt. Jeff Davis

Looks like the Pentagon does not believe the Russians believe IS has flying carpets capable of launching ALCMs.

[OUTLAW 09]

Turkish PM to #Russia: " Violation was not only against Turkish border but also against NATO border"
http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/natosource/prime-minister-of-turkey-and-nato-secretary-general-russia-has-violated-turkish-airspace-more-than-once …
pic.twitter.com/9A39gJsGvD

[OUTLAW 09]

From a anti Assad social media comment 16 hours ago..........
Mark my words. This stupid Russian blunder in north Aleppo of bombing Turkish/Syrian borders is about to backfire. You'll see. Good night

THEN this three hours ago.......
BREAKING: Turkish Prime Minister has allegedly said that Turkey, Saudi Arabia & others will begin fighting terrorism in Syria - @AJABreaking

Now what should worry the West especially the US does this mean the entire Sunni Front States are going to push troops into northern Syria to link into the FSA for moves in Raqqa and Aleppo?

THEN it now appears that after destroying Turkish aid convoys, bread bakery for 50,000 and a massive food storage warehouse....Russia wakes up the simple fact that under the 1936 Treaty if Turkey feels threatened they can close down the Straits effectively ending Russian sealift to Syria and forcing then airlift which is slower and far more costly.

Tass mentions cancelled RU/TU navy exercise and hopes treaty will keep Bosporous open:
http://goo.gl/vAm0Uh

Here it comes........
SYRIA: The UAE say they are ready to commit troops in #Syria.
http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/2/8/172211/World/Region/UAE-says-ready-to-commit-troops-to-fight-Syria-mil.aspx …

AND all those Turkish 100 tanks, artillery and MRLS and EW jammers on the Turkish border are there for exactly what????

[OUTLAW 09]

Typical Iranian statement---and countered by what has Iran exactly contributed to Syrian outside of death, destruction, war crimes and sectarian warfare.

Iran:
"Saudi Arabia has not had a positive and constructive role with regard to the people of Syria in the last five years."

[OUTLAW 09]

Russian Air Force Chief Vows Those Who Planned Su-24 Downing Will 'Suffer Just Punishment'
http://www.interpretermag.com/putin-in-syria-turkey-wont-apologize-russia-equips-air-to-air-missiles/#11275 …
pic.twitter.com/E5abMEoLvt

VIDEO: Russian airstrike near Al-Lataminah #Hama #Syria.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fnwEsgj8uc …

[OUTLAW 09]

Putin: "Some govts support terrorism for political reasons."
Like #Russia's terrorists w/Buk in #Ukraine?
pic.twitter.com/xLNnuRpa4H

Erdogan accusing Syria and Russians of buying Islamic State oil after recent sanctions from Washington https://twitter.com/anadoluajansi/status/671406689908838404 …

Man the French are really reaching to get to forming an joint venture with Assad---and this is after the agency responsible for determining the use or non use of chemical weapons stated Assad had indeed used chemical weapons....

Now that we have this clarified and out of the way, let's form a coalition with Assad army free world..

FRANCE 24 English 
‏@France24_en Syria denies ever using chemical weapons in civil war
http://f24.my/21patVi

[OUTLAW 09]

Rebels killed several regime army forces on Salamiya-Hama road with 9 IEDs.

Iranian IRGC officer killed by Jaish al-Fath south #Aleppo.

YPG & Jaish al-Thuwar fortifications in Shawargha village taken by #FSA west Azaz today.

Damascus Clashes btw rebels & IslamicState in Sirghaya north of #Zabadani
http://wikimapia.org/#lang=de&lat=33.808606&lon=36.162014&z=14&m=b …

[OUTLAW 09]

Putin has reached the ultimate altered state of reality---actually believing his very own propaganda........in the face of the facts that Russian actors have been mixed into the multitude buyers of Syrian oil regardless of who was and or is selling.

BREAKING: Putin says Turkey shot down Russian warplane to protect ISIS oil trade - @AFP

Putin: Russia's plane was shot down to ensure safety of supply routes thru which tankers of ISIS oil flow to Turkey
https://tvrain.ru/news/putin-399257/ …

THIS flies in the face of emerging evidence the SU24 was on the final bombing line up to strike a school near the border not some oil truck in the desert....near Raqqa.

BUT when the RuAF bombed all trucks at the two border crossing points non were carrying fuel---only food.

[OUTLAW 09]

NATO SecGen: "we will continue to support #Turkey, we will continue to augment their air defenses"
http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/natosource/in-less-than-fourty-eight-hours-nato-foreign-ministers-vote-on-montenegro-joining-the-alliance …

NATO SG: "I would like to see #Russia targeting #ISIL, our common enemy, instead of targeting so many other groups" http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/natosource/in-less-than-fourty-eight-hours-nato-foreign-ministers-vote-on-montenegro-joining-the-alliance …

[OUTLAW 09]

Putin has reached the ultimate altered state of reality---actually believing his very own propaganda........in the face of the facts that Russian actors have been mixed into the multitude buyers of Syrian oil regardless of who was and or is selling.

BREAKING: Putin says Turkey shot down Russian warplane to protect ISIS oil trade - @AFP

Putin: Russia's plane was shot down to ensure safety of supply routes thru which tankers of ISIS oil flow to Turkey
https://tvrain.ru/news/putin-399257/ …

THIS flies in the face of emerging evidence the SU24 was on the final bombing line up to strike a school near the border not some oil truck in the desert....near Raqqa.

BUT when the RuAF bombed all trucks at the two border crossing points non were carrying fuel---only food.

Russia says #Turkey shot down jet for #ISIS oil (& #Russia also said no troops in #Ukraine)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34970121 …
pic.twitter.com/IWcqEc4ArW

Putin has lied - blatantly, demonstrably - about everything his military is doing from Crimea to E Ukraine to Syria. Why believe him now?

Fatal hubris. Iran deal central to Obama's legacy, can't admit "partners" Iran & Russia are enemies of US & acting like it. So more charade.

There are reasons to believe that Russian Su-24 bombed Jisr Al Shoughour school moments before shot by TR F-16 https://www.facebook.com/burkonews/posts/580901242057753 …

Putin said that Turkey shot down a "defenseless russian bomber" jet

[OUTLAW 09]

France says Russian strikes in Syria must only target Islamic State
http://reut.rs/1XrBXdx

[OUTLAW 09]

Documentation for the 22 Regime-ally #IRGC's Pakistani fighters killed in #Syria.
Source: http://syrian-reporter.net/%D9%86%D9%88%D9%81%D9%85%D8%A8%D8%B1-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D8%AB%D9%82%D9%84-%D8%A8%D8%AC%D8%AB%D8%AB-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D8%B1%D8%AA%D8%B2%D9%82%D8%A9-%D8%B9%D8%B4%D8%B1%D8%A7%D8%AA-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%82/ …

[OUTLAW 09]

Russia News @RT_com BS! says Su-24s #Syria NOW w AA missiles.They have been there SINCE Oct https://twitter.com/raging545/status/662711358878650368 …
pic.twitter.com/6E1BqsbKqP

GEOLOCATED video of downed Russian SU-24 smoke plume in Google Earth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rpgKVDzOmk …
pic.twitter.com/rt4N0SF9zf

[OUTLAW 09]

Russia says #Turkey shot down jet for #ISIS oil (& #Russia also said no troops in #Ukraine)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34970121 …
pic.twitter.com/IWcqEc4ArW

Putin has lied - blatantly, demonstrably - about everything his military is doing from Crimea to E Ukraine to Syria. Why believe him now?

Fatal hubris. Iran deal central to Obama's legacy, can't admit "partners" Iran & Russia are enemies of US & acting like it. So more charade.

There are reasons to believe that Russian Su-24 bombed Jisr Al Shoughour school moments before shot by TR F-16 https://www.facebook.com/burkonews/posts/580901242057753 …

Putin said that Turkey shot down a "defenseless russian bomber" jet

Defenseless was MH17, the Su-24 was fully weapons loaded combat aircraft on a bombing run that had previously stuck a school

[Azor]

Those bloody CIA telephone poles. Those and the Mossad sharks and vultures are wrecking the Middle East.

[OUTLAW 09]

Those bloody CIA telephone poles. Those and the Mossad sharks and vultures are wrecking the Middle East.

You might have a point.......

[OUTLAW 09]

Appears hat the Syrian Assad Army has been stealing from the UNCHR food and tents for their military use.........

Assad troops have been doing that for a while
https://twitter.com/raging545/status/663385008657276928 …
Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fT_IdvTfXc0 …

The regime also sells UNCHR food in stores.

BUT Assad and Putin both use starvation as a weapon or is there a particular reason the RuAF is strictly bombing bakeries, food storage or water facilities.

[OUTLAW 09]

Assad's bodyguard Alaa Khalil is in Cologne (Germany) as a "refugee".

https://unfetteredfreedom.wordpress.com/2015/10/03/list-of-shabiha-posing-as-refugees-in-europe/ …

[OUTLAW 09]

Analysis #Map
#FSA forces attack #YPG-held #SheikhMaqsoud from the north.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZULFyKh0h0 …

Footage
An #Assad #MilMi24 bombs Ter Maela in #Homs province.
https://www.youtube.com/feed/subscriptions …

Footage
Very unfortunate, #FSA and #YPG are in full battle mode in the #Aleppo area now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zytkx3G2x_w …

[OUTLAW 09]

This is rather interesting as Putin has been openly/publicly lying on a lot since Crimea and it has been only the social media calling him out and disproves ost of what he states......never a single comment against his lies from a western leader.

Turkey challenges Russia over IS oil trade claim - BBC News -
http://go.shr.lc/1IlhAb3

Awaiting the so called Russian evidence............

[OUTLAW 09]

The imaginary moderation of #Assad's fanatics, and the torture their supporters use @twitter to advocate.
pic.twitter.com/xugJrMVC3f

Michael Weiss ✔ @michaeldweiss
U.S. Diplomat: Syria Has ‘Continued to Use Chemical Weapons on Its Own People’
http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/11/30/u-s-diplomat-syria-has-continued-to-use-chemical-weapons-on-its-own-people/ …

Wait.......yesterday Aassd declared he has never used a ingle chemical weapon against his population...but wait 1100 were killed by Assad chemical weapons being used against them

[CrowBat]

Not a problem.
Thanks. Was a very interesting read.

Obviously, some things are a matter of personal preference. For example, for me it matters to take into consideration such things like basics of our mathematics, medicine and hygiene, nearly all of our dishes (not to talk about eating with help of cutlery), that 'strange' custom of enjoying drinks like tee or coffee etc - and conclude that they are mostly of Turkish origin (who in turn took over Arab habits, who in turn took over Persian habits...).

In comparison... well, I simply do not recall any significant Russian 'contributions' to the European way of life. I have nothing against Russians (on the contrary; and this despite making business with them for years, and they attempting to screw me up at every opportunity), but that 'nation of endless forrests and ice, out there in the East' does not 'fit' in the EU no matter how I look at it.


As for NATO, I believe it is important to include an evolved Russia into our security architecture, which will finally resolve the legacy of intra-European wars.This is, IMHO the only really important factor 'pro' adding Russia. Though, from that aspect it's rather tragic that this country has a far longer way to adapt to EU standards than Turkey...


The PKK was not simply an instrument of foreign powers; the Kurds have been struggling for independence against Turkey, Iraq and Iran....but they (Kurds) are at least as much to blame for failing to get their own national state (see: disunity), as Sykes-Picot or certain Western statesmen stubbornly insisting on 'maintaing status quo', for example. Therefore, it's just adding chaos to the mess (i.e. fuel to fire) when anybody there favours Kurds (usually for reasons that have no relation to reality), while ignoring understandable interests of everybody else.


Turkey is of course sensitive to the Syrian Civil War, but has not been acting to quell it...Ah, please: this is simply not truth.

Turkey has offered a number of solutions, most of which would have 'quelled' this war already years ago, including prevention of Syria descending into utter chaos it now is, and including prevention of half the Syrian population fleeing their homes. The West flatly refused to support any of Turkish ideas - and now we all, Turkey and the West - are paying for lack of action.

But again: 'no, it's only Turkey to blame...'?


...on the contrary it has been acting to oust Assad, no matter the cost.Because that's the core problem of the situation in Syria. What please is wrong with removing Assad?


In my opinion, Turkey is using NATO membership as a shield and then involving itself in intrigues throughout Central Asia, and intervening heavily in the Civil War, albeit not to the degree of Iran and Russia....as opposed to the West using its economic and military power to involve itself in intrigues... well, all over the World?

Why is it that we must or are permitted to do so, although it's so obvious that majority of our decisions are proving counterproductive, but Turks 'can't/shouldn't', and must be hindered if they try...?


...Turkey wants... to use Europe as a dumping ground for its unemployed young men.Thanks: you've finally defined the very essence of all the possible prejudice about Turkey.

Two decades ago, similar prejudice towards Eastern Europeans was dictating the way the EU was expanding in that direction: somehow, majority of East Europeans - including their unemployed young men - have remained where they used to be back then.

I think we should all make our decision: either we want the EU - its standards and values - to expand, or we don't want it to expand. But, we can't expect our neighbours to simply accept our economic domination and exploatation of their cheap labour and markets, while letting them earn nothing in return.

There is just no way to be 'a little bit of pregnant, but not pregnant'.


That would be a good idea, and would help with NATO solidarity. Yet I think some in NATO feel that Turkey and the Baltics are expendable....and, curiously enough, most of those thinking that way are to be found in Eastern Europe...


I never said Erdogan is to blame for everything, but he’s up to his neck in the Syrian Civil War and the expansion of IS.Once again: I would like at least some trace of evidence supporting the idea that 'Turkey supported expansion of IS'.

Please check all the documentation captured by US spec troops during various raids against the Daesh: Daesh came into being as a mix of AQI ideology with Iraqi Ba'athist ideas of perfect police state (absolutely in common with Syrian Ba'athist ideas of a perfect police state), financed by big-style robbery of local resources and various franchises. Turkey never had anything to do with that, and Daesh didn't need Turkey for anything of this (or if, then only as a transit spot for various of their 'exports'). And when one takes a closer look, the Daesh that claim they have received Turkish support - which in some cases is undeniable - all received that aid while using to be the JAN before they defected to the Daesh.

Nobody denies Turkey repeatedly providing support to the JAN (again: repeatedly, not 'all the time'). But please show me finally some evidence of Turkey providing any kind of support for the Daesh.


Given the black market dealings with IS, porous borders...Israel can't control few dozens of kilometres of 'borders' to the Gaza Strip and the West Bank despite massive investment and deployment of half of its military and intelligence apparatus since decades. USA have similar problem with its border to Mexico, in spite of similarly massive attempt to control the same. Turkish Army's and Gendarmerie's deployment along the border to Syria is meanwhile reaching proportions similar of Israeli military deployment along the West Bank and Gaza - and is certainly neither related to anything like that long since disappeared 'Syrian Arab Army' nor Russian military intervention....

...but nah, Turkey has porous borders?

On the contrary, had the West had the stomach to approve at least political support for Turkish idea of a 'safe zone' in northern Syria, Turks could have annihilitated all of the Daesh down to Aleppo, Raqqa and Hassakah, and either facilitate destruction of the rest, or at least keep the Daesh busy; they could have prevented the refugee problem; they could have curbed the spread of IRGC-run terrorist organizations; and they could have prevented this tragicommedy of a military intervention...

But no: because the West wouldn't let Turkey do so, Turkey must be declared a Daesh ally?

Please help me: in what universe is this making sense?


...reluctance to focus on IS over Assad...But why should Turkey focus on IS over Assad? Because West prefers to ignore Assad although he's the core problem - and then one supporting the Daesh?


...attacks on Kurds fighting IS...You're now about the third person to say 'Turks attack Kurds that are fighting Daesh'.

Have you got any trace of evidence for this? Since when is Turkey attacking any of Kurds fighting the Daesh?

More precisely: since when is the PKK fighting Daesh?


...and supplying AQ-affiliated groups fighting Assad...What's wrong about that? The same AQ-affiliated groups are fighting the Daesh too. And since you want Turkey to focus on IS over Assad, this should actually be in your best interest too.

So, where is the problem?


Erdogan would have been better off clamping down on the flow of jihadis and jihadi trade across Turkish borders, supplying only the FSA and working out some arrangement with Iraq over a future Kurdish state or cross-border autonomous region – which would have struck a blow at Iran as well. Now THAT would have been farsighted.So, Erdogan is guilty of Qatar and Kuwait insisting on supporting the JAN and similar, resulting in factionalisation of the FSyA, and USA doing nothing to curb this...? On Saudis insisting on supporting the IF, and factionalizing the FSyA, and USA doing nothing to curb this...?

Do you expect Erdogan to exercise control over Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait etc. too?

And what would be an alternative but the only one left to Erdo, which was to do exactly the same others are doing, and support his favourites (which: no, do not include the Daesh, but such like the Ahrar ash-Sham, which has meanwhile publicly declared itself as pro-democracy/pluralism etc.)?


That’s what happens when your aircraft rely on Garmin for navigation....Jokes by side (and it seems that we two are in agreement that Putler fell for an Iranian plot here): but, you said Putin didn't order deployment to Syria.

Who ordered that deployment then?

[CrowBat]

Russian Air Force Chief Vows Those Who Planned Su-24 Downing Will 'Suffer Just Punishment'
http://www.interpretermag.com/putin-in-syria-turkey-wont-apologize-russia-equips-air-to-air-missiles/#11275 … Is he talking about Russian officers in command at Hmemmem?

Then it's them who failed to announce the flight up to the Turkish border, and then ignored 10 warnings aired on two different frequencies they've promised to listen to...

Definitely a failure worth of court-martialing them - even more so since Russians can consider themselves happy they've lost only one of two Sukhois that violated Turkish airspace...

[OUTLAW 09]

Rebels blow up cannon on Tel Eis in southern #Aleppo TOW hit long distance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek4pb4l5O3o …
http://wikimapia.org/#lang=de&lat=36.003840&lon=37.002211&z=14&m=b …

[OUTLAW 09]

Unconfirmed(!) report of two Russian helicopters down near the Turkish border in #Latakia province.

Reports that 2 helicopters flying over Jebel al-Turkman (tail numbers “927" & “930”) have been lost. Opposition claims to have downed them


That’s a BIG number:
The U.S. military claims to have killed 23,000 #ISIS militants since August 2014.
(1,530 per month!)

To put that more simply, the U.S. claims to have killed an average of 51 #ISIS militants EVERY day for 14 months.
Here is the problem---that figure basically covers the new recruits flowing into theater ---war of attrition nothing more......

[OUTLAW 09]

Unconfirmed(!) report of two Russian helicopters down near the Turkish border in #Latakia province.

Reports that 2 helicopters flying over Jebel al-Turkman (tail numbers “927" & “930”) have been lost. Opposition claims to have downed them


That’s a BIG number:
The U.S. military claims to have killed 23,000 #ISIS militants since August 2014.
(1,530 per month!)

To put that more simply, the U.S. claims to have killed an average of 51 #ISIS militants EVERY day for 14 months.
Here is the problem---that figure basically covers the new recruits flowing into theater ---war of attrition nothing more......

Info concerning shot down is still out there awaiting videos......

[OUTLAW 09]

Russia targets moderate opposition and civilians in #Syria pic.twitter.com/wTw9jwUM9Q

[OUTLAW 09]

This is rather interesting as Putin has been openly/publicly lying on a lot since Crimea and it has been only the social media calling him out and disproves ost of what he states......never a single comment against his lies from a western leader.

Turkey challenges Russia over IS oil trade claim - BBC News -
http://go.shr.lc/1IlhAb3

Awaiting the so called Russian evidence............

Russia unable to prove there is an oil trade between #Turkey & #ISIS
https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=search&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&sl=ru&u=http://tass.ru/politika/2487633&usg=ALkJrhh6RIhAU0CySiBwf7x6aInhVKi88A …
pic.twitter.com/Vw8ZUGghhc

[OUTLAW 09]

Russian sealift........ Syrian Express.....

Bosphorus is OPEN: #ВМФ Amguema class cargo ship, NF’s Yauza transits northbound Bosphorus

Midnight #SyriaExpress ! NF Yauza completes the cargo vessel’s 2nd deployment to Tartus & returns to the BlackSea

It's been 11 days since Yauza last crossed southbound. Next pass shall be in 5 days earliest. 2days to 2 back 1 load

[OUTLAW 09]

Airstrikes alone won’t stop ISIS. My story w photog @AymanOghanna on the ground war in Syria
http://www.buzzfeed.com/mikegiglio/airstrikes-alone-wont-stop-isis-inside-the-war-on-the-ground#.oroOXbMX6 …
pic.twitter.com/eOeUP5En6F

[OUTLAW 09]

Russian Today--the mothership of Russian info warfare knows it all....but the Treaty "allows' Turkey to shut down the Bosphorus if in fact it "feels threatened".

Restricting passage of Rus ships through Bosphorus -violation of intl law
pic.twitter.com/p3lF7DYXYN

Notice Russia screams international law violations to them BUT fails to agree when others accused Russia of violating international law which they did in the Ukraine and Crimea.....

[OUTLAW 09]

Ukraine says it is ready to aid Turkey after Russian fruit and vegetable ban. -
http://www.ibtimes.com/russia-turkey-relations-update-ukraine-offers-step-after-fruit-vegetable-ban-2203844 …
pic.twitter.com/nMiwlbbsmy

Wow...and this is from a Russian media source.....brave....
VIDEO #Russia(n) TV Rain- many inconsistencies in interviewed "rescued Su-24 pilot"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WNoiAhT0NM … pic.twitter.com/Yyy61ejRhh

Notice Russia bans what it thinks it can replace but at a higher price but leaves a number of Turkish products in place because they consist of more than 80% of the current market and cannot be replaced..

Russia publishes anti-shopping list of banned Turkish foods -- salt, plums, cloves, turkey, cornichons...That Russia stopped short of banning lemon and nut imports, vast majority of which come from Turkey, suggests limits of today's sanctions.

Here comes the massively increasing Russian food prices---and that is a sanction concept that is to hit the Turks????

Russia has banned imports of, inter alia, Turkish strawberries, citrus fruits, pears, apples, plums & table salt
http://www.rferl.org/emailtofriend/article/27363628.html?live=77122 …

Going to be a long dark winter for Russians......and a lot of cabbage.