View Full Version : Canadian policing plus (merged thread)

02-19-2007, 03:19 PM
CBC News, 19 Feb 07: RCMP Inadvertently Sponsored U.S. Gang Websites (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2007/02/19/rcmp-gangs-070219.html)

...the CBC alerted the Mounties on Friday to police recruitment ads that popped up on websites run by the Los Angeles-based 18th Street Gang, an international outfit considered by criminal analysts to be one of the most violent gangs in the world.

On one internet message board, death threats to rival crews and violent messages appeared as if they were endorsed by an RCMP logo inviting youth to apply to the force. At the top of another page on a different site also owned by the 18th Street Gang, a banner ad featuring a smiling female Mountie showed up above a dedication to slain gang member "L'il Creeper."...

...on a less humorous note, MS-18 snatched an Embassy Marine in El Sal this weekend. It was an express kidnapping, and he was later released - minus his rental SUV, credit & ATM cards. Of course, he was in the red light district at the time....

12-12-2008, 06:59 PM
Canada.com, 11 Dec 08: Canada's airports infiltrated by criminals: RCMP report (http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=1064471)

A national RCMP inquiry has concluded that all of Canada's major airports have been infiltrated by organized crime.

The investigation, dubbed Project Spawn, examined hundreds of police files at Canada's eight largest airports between 2005 and 2007 and concluded hundreds of people were involved in criminal activity at airports, including almost 300 current or former airport employees.

More than 1,000 people not employed at an airport were still able to use connections for criminal purposes......

12-16-2008, 01:08 AM
We had a situation like that up here. Bangers had been hired as baggage handlers and were actually leaving their various tags inside of the airplanes.

12-16-2008, 02:45 AM
The Rizzuto family in Montreal had infiltrated Montreal's airport before it was brought down a few years ago. Ran allot of drugs through there, it was a pretty internationalized operation irc. They were purchasing directly from South America. Ten airport employees were arrested when RCMP rolled up the network's remains in 2006.

Easy to see how LCN can infiltrate airports; unions, large construction and infrastructure companies, etc.

Any info on what types of OC groups were mentioned in the report? Last I read Asian groups were filling the vacuum left by the Rizzuto's in Montreal.

12-18-2008, 02:02 AM
Some scary stuff in that report.

07-10-2010, 05:10 PM
Hat tip to: http://www.schneier.com/ who commented:
Lots of stuff in this article I had not read before.


Opens with:
our years ago, a group of young Muslim men conspired to send Ottawa a deadly message. Enraged by Canada’s military involvement in Afghanistan, and fuelled by violent jihadi videos, they plotted to storm Parliament Hill and detonate truck bombs in downtown Toronto. The goal was to cause catastrophic damage, cripple the economy and unleash mass carnage.

After lengthy investigations by Canada’s spy agency (CSIS) and the RCMP, involving hundreds of police officers and more than 82,200 intercepted calls, a group of 14 adults and four youths were arrested in the summer of 2006.

(Later in opening)But many were skeptical of the role played by two RCMP-paid infiltrators, suspicious they had been agent provocateurs who had goaded the accused and fuelled the plots. Some also dismissed the suspects as a bunch of bravado-filled but bumbling incompetents who were not capable of carrying out their plans. Years of publication bans, which shrouded parts of the government’s landmark case, did little to ease skepticism.

The case - the first homegrown cell in Canada charged under the anti-terrorism legislation - moved through the courts at a glacial pace, bogged down by numerous pre-trial motions. Four adults and three youths had charges against them stayed - in some cases, after having spent many months in solitary confinement. Seven adults pleaded guilty, including Ahmad and Amara. Of the remaining accused, only four chose to fight their charges at trial - all were convicted.

Finally, a jury delivered its decision in the case of final two accused, making it the first Canadian jury to deliver a verdict in a terrorism case and marking the final chapter of the Toronto 18 saga.

This series examines what happened - and why.

A very long series of linked articles, with numerous embedded videos, bios of the accused and commentaries by experts, community etc. Note the references to training abroad and coming home.

07-10-2010, 05:27 PM
Interesting...thanks for posting!

07-12-2010, 06:35 PM
Interesting group size - same as the 9-11 crew.

10-21-2014, 05:18 PM
One of two Canadian soldiers hit by a car driven by a Quebec man whom authorities said had been “radicalized” by Islamists has died of his injuries.

The Associated Press, citing Quebec provincial police, reported that the soldier had died of his injuries early Tuesday after being struck by the car Monday. The soldier’s name has not been released at the request of his family.

I will not name the scumbag perpetrator. If you want to know more, then

Bill Moore
10-21-2014, 11:30 PM
Made headline news in the U.S. today, along with: the three teenage girls who attempted to join ISIS (youngest was 15 I believe): and talking heads (supposed experts on terrorism) on numerous main stream news channels claiming that the U.S. is at a greater risk of a terrorist attack now than before we started bombing ISIS. Hopefully no one is surprised by the idea if you bomb somebody they want to attack you in return. In this case they desired, and continue to desire, to attack the U.S., but now they have with a greater sense of urgency, and in their mind justification to do so.

In the big scheme of things the numbers of those being self-radicalized in the U.S. are still relatively low compared to Western Europe. Nonetheless, it does present a high degree of uncertainty for security officials trying to track and prevent threats. Any dickweed, like the Canadian kid who committed homicide in the name of Allah, can pop up almost anywhere at anytime. 99% of the time their actions will be limited in scope as it relates to physical damage or harm to our citizens, but those actions will have disproportionate psychological effects beyond the physical effects of the attack. At least until this is accepted as part of a new normal. When it is, then the terrorists will come face to face with the Red Queen effect, and then they'll focus on another 9/11 scale attack (should assume they are anyway).

That begs the question, should we continue to reward the media for hyping these attacks to convince the extremists they're having an impact, or down play the attacks in the media to further motivate the terrorists to conduct larger scale attacks? Not sure it makes a difference one way or the other, some will always pursue larger scale attacks, but in theory, admittedly a weak theory, it could discourage others if they think they are achieving their ends with these pin prick attacks.

10-24-2014, 01:30 PM
I'm not familiar with the details of this specific attack, so I won't comment on it. But to put terrorism in Canada in context, here are some interesting statistics from the Global Terrorism Database from 1970 to 2013.

There have been a total of 68 attacks, averaging 1.5 year, with the most in 1982, 1995, and 2000, and 2008 (5 each). There have been a total of 337 deaths, with 331 (98.21%) in 1985. That was the bombing of Air India Flight 182 departing Montreal, perpetrated by Sikh radicals living in Canada targeting India. The other casualty producing event that year was a bombing at a commuter train station by an American war vet.

Of the 68 attacks, only 9 (13.24%) targeted government, police, or military, with 48 (70.59%) targeting 'Other' (i.e. businesses, journalists, etc).

The vast majority of attacks are not lethal, with only 9 producing fatalities. And only three (4.41%) lethal attacks were committed by firearms and six (8.82%) committed by explosives. In fact, there hasn't been an attack by firearms since 1998 and no suicide attacks. Compared to the U.S. where the majority of fatal terrorist attacks are perpetrated by firearms. Bombings are a particular favorite in Canada, totaling 48 (70.59%) such attacks with 8 (11.76%) firearm attacks.

What surprised me was the variety of threat groups, even if relatively inactive (at least compared to threat groups in the U.S.); everyone from Hamas and Sikhs, to right-wing radicals and American veterans.

10-24-2014, 05:40 PM
What about the attack on Parliament and the National War Memorial?

10-24-2014, 06:21 PM
What about the attack on Parliament and the National War Memorial?

It has been interesting to follow some Canadians on Twitter, all of whom know Canada's recent history of political violence / terrorism.

Now it appears this latest attack, a murder and then an attack on parliament, are being described as a 'lone wolf' attack, by a man with a vary mixed background:


10-24-2014, 06:40 PM
It has been interesting to follow some Canadians on Twitter, all of whom know Canada's recent history of political violence / terrorism.

Now it appears this latest attack, a murder and then an attack on parliament, are being described as a 'lone wolf' attack, by a man with a vary mixed background


It was reported that he held duel citizenship. Canadian and Libian. And he wanted to get his passport back to go to Syria!

10-24-2014, 08:11 PM
It was reported that he held dual citizenship. Canadian and Libian. And he wanted to get his passport back to go to Syria!

The Canadian press report he was in Ottawa, as additional questioning was required to get a passport - which had not been issued. apparently as CSIS / RCMP had information he intended to travel to Syria.

In the earlier murder by vehicle the suspect's passport had been seized, due to his intention to travel abroad. He had been the subject of extensive intervention, by a Muslim Imam and other agencies - which may lead to a review, at least a rethink. Failure to respond to intervention is not uncommon in law enforcement.

Bill Moore
10-25-2014, 01:26 AM

According to the news in North America, both the culprits in Canada (the shooter, and driver) planned to go to Syria and fight with ISIS, but had their passports revoked.

In the U.S. we had 3 teenage girls get as far as Germany in their attempt to join ISIS.

They determined quite some time ago the hatchet guy in NYC was attacking in the name of Islam, but kept it quiet for awhile.

It appears that in Canada and the guy in NYC, we're looking at your general loser, mentally ill, drug abuse, etc., who are looking for something to identify with, and for whatever reason ISIS's outreach program via the web and social media has an appeal.


Thompson converted to Islam two years ago and then at some point self-radicalized, John Miller, the NYPD's deputy counterterrorism chief, told reporters Friday. Miller said Thompson was self-directed in his actions, and he had no affiliations with any particular group.

Thompson was unemployed, and police said his parents described their son as a depressed recluse who spent much of his time online.

A common theme in his social media presence was "anti-Western, anti-government and in some cases anti-white," Miller said.

On a side note, they just captured the guy who shot and killed to deputies in CA, so this is a tragic period for police in the U.S.. It always seems one shooting begets another, and I suspect media coverage has a fair amount to do with that. Sounds like the guy in California is nothing more than criminal scum, more tomorrow if it turns to be different.

10-25-2014, 02:53 PM
If, as in the case of Hasan, McVeigh, and others, we are dealing with a 'lone wolf' type, I think we should be less concerned about ISIS, etc and more concerned about the causes of self-radicalization. 37 of the 68 (54.41%) attacks in Canada between 1970 and 2013 were committed by individuals without any threat group affiliation. The targets for these attacks included, among other things, the Cuban embassy, an abortion clinic, a Kurdish cafe, oil and natural gas infrastructure, and a TV station. The most deadly attack in Canada was carried out by Sikhs while the most deadly 'lone wolf' attack in the U.S. was by a right-wing extremist (McVeigh). So ISIS (or Islamic groups in general) have no clear monopoly on 'lone wolves'. That's a threat that will exist with or without radical Islam's exhortation for violence.

Bill remarks about the 'general loser', 'mentally ill', 'drug abuse' - all of these are contributing factors and while I can't speak for Canada, the U.S. does not have any meaningful process for handling these problems in a constructive way. We think the 'general loser' "deserves it", while the mentally ill are often left to their own devices, and we lock up drug users to alienate them from the legal economy. We should not be surprised that in the social dysfunction and disolocation created as a result that there occasionally emerges a murderous rage in response. Whether it's dressed in white hate or radical Islam does not matter. We could do a better job in preventing violence than responding to it.

Bill Moore
10-25-2014, 04:07 PM


The disgruntled homeless and others are an army in waiting that be mobilized by any number of groups.

10-25-2014, 07:39 PM
Just started to listen to a twelve minute podcast, with my emphasis:
This week, the world focused its attention on Canada, after two Canadian soldiers were killed in separate attacks. Neither of the killers had access to Canadian passports, and the RCMP says that played a role in the attacks. And earlier this month, Immigration Minister Chris Alexander said the government was considering revoking the passports (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/revoking-isis-passports-government-refuses-to-disclose-numbers-1.2774546) of 80 people who have returned to Canada after associating with militant groups abroad. But by revoking passports from would-be terrorists who are still here, could we be putting Canadians in danger? Brent asks (SWC member) Rex Brynen[/URL], McGill University professor and terrorism expert.

Link:[URL]http://www.cbc.ca/day6/popupaudio.html?clipIds=2569955821 (http://www.mcgill.ca/politicalscience/faculty/brynen)

10-25-2014, 07:47 PM
David Gomez, an ex-FBI Agent (@AllThingsHLS (https://twitter.com/AllThingsHLS) on Twitter), has a short FP comment on dealing with the lone wolf / lone wolves threat:http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/10/25/myth_big_bad_lone_wolf_terorrism_canada

Short of time:
Finding a true lone wolf offender is like trying to find the proverbial needle in a haystack.

10-25-2014, 10:34 PM

Thanks for sharing. In the era of big data though, I wonder how much of the challenges of searching for the 'lone wolf' can be minimized insofar as identifying and detecting a specific pattern of behavior that indicates a potential threat. Corporations have more or less mastered this as far as directed marketing campaigns (one amusing example being a father discovering his daughter's pregnancy through a retail corporation's mailed advertisements). If we know the causes of radicalization, we can in theory develop measures to identify and interdict individuals as they progress through the radicalization process.

The other problem is that law enforcement agencies are not intelligence agencies. Law enforcement is built around criminal conduct, mostly after the fact, and our civil rights and legal protections reflect this frame of thinking. Intelligence however is (mostly) in the business of predictive analysis, and this requires a very different kind of engagement within the operational area. The Threat Matrix by Garrett Graff has a chapter about the FBI's transformation from a criminal-procedural paradigm to a domain intelligence paradigm. Historically, the FBI trained its agents to investigate attacks after the fact, and the FBI by all accounts is very good at that. But intelligence requires casting a wide net, developing a sustained and engaged presence in the operational area, and a measure of risk-taking.

I think this goes back to process - despite the extensive academic research on this subject, the U.S. government does not have a systematic process to address this problem as a preventative effort. Instead, we wait for the next 'lone wolf' to attack and we sit around blaming each other for failure.

Bill Moore
10-25-2014, 11:02 PM

The FBI and large city police departments have intelligence sections. Furthermore the FBI has disrupted a number of lone wolf's over the past few years. I'm sure big data played a role, but I suspect good ole HUMINT played a larger role. Police in larger cities seem to be increasingly proactive. I doubt they have the resources to do so in smaller towns.

How proactive can we be though without becoming a police state? Terrorists don't pose a threat to our physical survival as a state, but they can significantly change the character of our country based on how we react. That is a threat to our Constitution, which we took an oath to defend. The challenge is finding the middle ground between protecting our people and defending our Constitution.

10-27-2014, 01:00 PM
American Pride cited in part:
In the era of big data though, I wonder how much of the challenges of searching for the 'lone wolf' can be minimized insofar as identifying and detecting a specific pattern of behavior that indicates a potential threat.

Identification of a lone wolf / wolves I expect has been discussed here before, especially as there appears to be a strong overlap with the more regular shootings at US schools and colleges - which kill many more people than most lone wolfs / loners. Except Breivik in Norway and a certain US Army officer.

There are at least three relevant threads, lone wolves in the USA: http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/showthread.php?t=17199 a more general thread on non-US lone wolves:http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/showthread.php?t=16226 and the US CT thread:http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/showthread.php?t=8828

I am sceptical that 'big data' can help. Are their behaviour patterns recorded as data and so available for searching? In some communities mental illness carries such "baggage" that it is dealt without external, non-family help and drug abuse - which features in the Ottawa murder - can be treated in confidence by agencies that do not report.

Cross-posting a useful reference source, in a book review:http://myemail.constantcontact.com/WHAT-DOES-THE-RECENT-SPATE-OF-LONE-WOLF-TERRORIST-ATTACKS-MEAN--by-Daveed-Gartenstein-Ross.html?soid=1114009586911&aid=NTVA0fJIrmM

Yes some wolves maybe identified by intelligence work, especially if on a case by case basis public and private agencies are prepared to report their concerns.

Nor should we overlook the role of parents, families and friends who are finally driven to report concerns over an individual.

Big snag is will such information arrive at the right place to assess and action. I fear in many places it will be a first responder or a call-taker who will screen out such a warning signal.

10-27-2014, 07:18 PM
Thanks to Twitter two useful academic references to US-UK research, one is online and the other only an abstract. The theme is Mental Illness and Lone-Actor Terrorism, although far more is covered.



What is of note is that a third of:
Lone-actor terrorists regularly engaged in a detectable and observable range of activities with a wider pressure group, social movement, or terrorist organization.

10-27-2014, 08:12 PM
Wouldnt it make more sense to revoke their passports AFTER they got to Syria, land of the barrel bomb and other delights...

10-27-2014, 09:13 PM
Wouldnt it make more sense to revoke their passports AFTER they got to Syria, land of the barrel bomb and other delights...

That certainly has been discussed as an option, in the UK and Canada. It does have a number of negative and positive aspects.

One downside is that those who change their minds and seek to return cannot readily return. I understand that making someone stateless has some legal issues.

11-09-2014, 11:13 AM
Advance notice of a new book's publication (in the UK) on the Toronto plot, jointly written by Anne Speckhard, a psychologist and Mubin Shaikh.The actual title: 'Undercover Jihadi: Inside the Toronto 18 - Al Qaeda Inspired, Homegrown, Terrorism in the West'.

Mubin Shaikh is one of the very few people in the world to have actually been undercover in a homegrown terror cell. His is a story of growing up Muslim in an age where militant jihad is glorified, of being caught between two identities and finally emerging victorious.

A number of glowing reviews and several podcast segments by Shaikh:http://www.annespeckhard.com/undercover-jihadi.html

It appears to have been published last month in North America:http://www.amazon.com/Undercover-Jihadi-Inspired-Homegrown-Terrorism-ebook/dp/B00NMR9T46

05-23-2015, 07:14 PM
A new comprehensive database on terrorism occurring in Canada, or involving Canadian perpetrators, victims or targets, has added another tool to the belts of policymakers focused on anti-terrorism efforts. The open-source Canadian Incident Database is available for free at extremism.ca (http://extremism.ca). It captures unclassified incidents from 1960 to present, including hoaxes and threats. Data was drawn from more than a dozen existing datasets...

We should all have such information, even better if linked to criminal proceedings and the result.

10-29-2015, 04:04 PM
Mobsters around Toronto are on the brink of armed warfare in a brewing feud between some of the world’s most powerful and wealthiest gangster clans, according to wiretaps secretly recorded in Italy.

Friction between Mafia families in Canada has already triggered one brazen murder, an unsolved shooting last year outside a café in Woodbridge, north of Toronto, authorities in Italy warn after listening to private conversations between an accused mafioso who returned to Italy from Toronto.

The allegations on the inner workings of Ontario-based mob families are revealed in documents prepared by prosecutors in Italy in a sweeping anti-Mafia case targeting the “elite” of the underworld.


08-11-2016, 06:57 PM
An interesting example of an ISIS sympathizer, a white convert, who is active online and required to enter into a 'Peace Bond', alongside bail conditions - deemed low risk. Then the FBI acquire information on an unknown suspect planning an attack, alert the RCMP and they decide this man is the suspect. In a confrontation he is shot dead.

Read on:http://www.cbc.ca/news/terror-threat-arrest-rcmp-1.3715969

A shorter news story:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-37053521