Matters Iraqi (historical)

[tequila]

Video log series by young Westernized Baghdadis. Interesting.

http://hometownbaghdad.com/

[tequila]

One of the best Iraqi (now Jordanian, as he has fled Baghdad) blogs out there posts a very interesting English-translated excerpt (http://ejectiraqikkk.blogspot.com/2007/06/ali-al-wardi-social-glimpsespart-ii.html)of of Dr. Ali al-Wardi's 1951 Social Glimpses of the History of Modern Iraq, which apparently is only in Arabic.



Iraqis in the Ottoman period were closer to Bedouin values than Islamic values, due to the control of the ‘Bedouin tide’ on them, there is a stark difference between the values of Bedouins and Islam, in a nutshell, Bedouin values glorify racism, vengeance, looting, killing women to wash away shame and so forth, while Islam condemns all that and considers it banned. Nevertheless, those values were common in the Ottoman period as many people glorified the man who shakes the ground when he walks and who robs houses at night out of manhood, describing him as a ‘lion’, ‘nightman’ or ‘tribe’s pride’ ...

Cities and Tribes

There are two social patterns that lay evidence to the extremity of the Bedouin tide in the Ottoman era ; the sparse population and the high ratio of tribes per cities. Mid-19th century Iraq’s population was somewhere close to 1-1.25 million, a very small number as compared to Abbasid Iraq, where the population of Baghdad alone is more than all of Ottoman Iraq. (KK – currently, Baghdad is 6 million, the population of all of Jordan, and Iraq is 28) Tribes in the Ottoman era where three quarters of all of Iraq, some were Bedouin and others were farmers, but all held tribal identification and customs fiercely in their hearts, they looked at all governments as hostile, regardless of being Turkish or Iranian, tribes would aid the victorious and loot the vanquished, regardless of their ideology differences.

On the other hand, city dwellers had three levels of social identification as opposed to the sole tribal one. First of all comes the neighborhood or district against all other neighborhoods in his city, as it comes to be a synonym for the tribe for Bedouins, this local identification would expand to what we could the ‘city’ identification, when the city is threatened under a common ailment. The third level is sectarian, such as when a sectarian case is raised or a state of one of the two sects comes to invade, the citizens then forget all their district and city identifications and pour their attention on that, to quote the Bedouin saying: “Me and my brother on our cousin, and me and our cousin on the stranger.” Hereby, it is clear that sectarianism is another level of social awareness, and is not based on religion or care for it.

The Phenomenon of ‘Shaqawa’

One of the most important social aspects that hint at the Bedouin tide is the ‘shaqawa’, which gives us a clear insight on the values and composition of the Iraqi society.

A “shaqi”, legally speaking, is a criminal who loots houses and imposes ‘taxes’ on the rich. Socially however, he is a hero by which the neighborhood takes pride, he does not disobey the dominant local customs – often a rich, noble guardian of his neighbors, and is keen to observe the rights of ‘the common bread and salt’, his criminal behavior is directed both at the government and at those who do not encompass his identification. Many a bloody battle has been fought at night between the Shaqi and the governmental soldiers, as his status in the eyes of the people increases with the increasing number of victims and battles, if he enters prison, it is a medal on his chest, if he is killed ; a funeral comes out to mourn the ‘great’ man ...

[tequila]

Interesting slice-of-life story (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-love26nov26,1,5751476,print.story?coll=la-headlines-world&ctrack=6&cset=true)about an Iraqi journalist attempting to date in Baghdad. Basic message - not many mixed marriages in Iraq's future.


It has never been easy for a divorced man to find a new wife in Iraq, where many people view people who have divorced with suspicion and disdain. It has become harder since the war, something I discovered when I stepped up my quest for love and bumped up against the religious hatred that has taken over many Iraqis' lives.

It all began after a distressing conversation last month with a good friend, who warned me that no father would approve of his daughter marrying someone like me, a divorced man with a 5-year-old son.

"You are not trustworthy enough to marry a girl, because you are divorced and have a child," my friend told me in a scornful tone. "If someone agreed to let you marry his daughter, it would be as a favor."

His words were crushing because I know they are true. I am 33, well educated and employed, but I have been rejected by many traditional Iraqi women's families because of my marital status. Now, because of the sectarian tensions caused by the war, I also have to worry about being rejected by Sunni women because I am a Shiite ...

[Stan]

While I appreciate where he's coming from, this doesn't sound like a desperate dude in search of love.



Timing determines the cost of broadcasting text messages. It is cheaper to deliver them after midnight, when the price drops from 12 cents for a minute of scrolling to 50 cents for the first five minutes, followed by 25 free minutes. Most messages begin scrolling late at night.

"The minute you walked in the joint,
I could see you were a man of distinction,
A real big spender..."

[Jedburgh]

I am 33, well educated and employed, but I have been rejected by many traditional Iraqi women's families because of my marital status.
There's the rest of the story. He's an educated, westernized Iraqi who's been burned in a divorce and now he wants a traditional obedient Arab wife to take care of the kid and who will not put him through the wringer again.

Even without the "sectarian tensions created by the war" there were not a lot of mixed Sunni-Shi'a marriages in Saddam's day and before. Among the educated classes, yes, on occasion, but you sure didn't see your average small town or village Iraqi crossing the sectarian divide for a marriage. When it did happen it was a true Romeo and Juliet moment (or more appropriately Qays and Leyla).

Keep texting away, Achmed.

[Tom Odom]

There's the rest of the story. He's an educated, westernized Iraqi who's been burned in a divorce and now he wants a traditional obedient Arab wife to take care of the kid and who will not put him through the wringer again.

Even without the "sectarian tensions created by the war" there were not a lot of mixed Sunni-Shi'a marriages in Saddam's day and before. Among the educated classes, yes, on occasion, but you sure didn't see your average small town or village Iraqi crossing the sectarian divide for a marriage. When it did happen it was a true Romeo and Juliet moment (or more appropriately Qays and Leyla).

Keep texting away, Achmed.

That's why my Arabic instructors never went home--he is Sunni and she is Chaldean Christian. Neither are fully accepted in DLI circles to this day, 27 years after I met them.

Best

Tom

[Danny]

Wow! This is a hard core group of guys. Exposed emotions ... QUICK, STEP ON THEM!!

:D

Remind me never to bear my soul to this group.

[Tom Odom]

Wow! This is a hard core group of guys. Exposed emotions ... QUICK, STEP ON THEM!!

:D

Remind me never to bear my soul to this group.

aw Danny,

Do tell all...:cool:

[historyguy99]

Keep in in the family:wry:
http://www.consang.net/index.php/Global_prevalence

[Jedburgh]

Keep in in the family:wry:
http://www.consang.net/index.php/Global_prevalence
In many tribal cultures in the Middle East the girl's father's brother's son has the right of first refusal. In many urban families where the tribal roots are still held closely, despite the apparent modern lifestyle exhibited publicly, you'll often find college educated men and women who feel bound by tradition marrying their cousins.

Regarding the Kurds, in many of the relatively isolated mountain villages - especially in the more extreme terrain of the tri-border area - there just ain't any other options. Everybody's kin. Like in the not-so-long-ago days in the Ozarks or Appalachia....

[historyguy99]

In many tribal cultures in the Middle East the girl's father's brother's son has the right of first refusal. In many urban families where the tribal roots are still held closely, despite the apparent modern lifestyle exhibited publicly, you'll often find college educated men and women who feel bound by tradition marrying their cousins.

Regarding the Kurds, in many of the relatively isolated mountain villages - especially in the more extreme terrain of the tri-border area - there just ain't any other options. Everybody's kin. Like in the not-so-long-ago days in the Ozarks or Appalachia....

I would agree with your comments. I was married to a westernized Persian woman who had numerous cousins married to cousins. Her explaination was, "that way they knew the family was good", meaning not prone to health, social, or culture issues. Your comments regarding Kurds also hold true when one examines the tables.

As for Appalachia, if you check the tables under minorities, Kentucky shows a 18.7% rate in 1942, when the national rate was .02%.

[Rank amateur]

he wants a traditional obedient wife who will not put him through the wringer.


I have a great joke in response, but my wife won't let me tell it.

[Ken White]

In many tribal cultures in the Middle East the girl's father's brother's son has the right of first refusal. In many urban families where the tribal roots are still held closely, despite the apparent modern lifestyle exhibited publicly, you'll often find college educated men and women who feel bound by tradition marrying their cousins.

Regarding the Kurds, in many of the relatively isolated mountain villages - especially in the more extreme terrain of the tri-border area - there just ain't any other options. Everybody's kin. Like in the not-so-long-ago days in the Ozarks or Appalachia....

Well, about some things, anyway...:D

[goesh]

- there can still be hell to pay in some families if a gal runs off with a yankee:p some things never change though it seems reasonable that Shia/Sunni tensions have made the crossing of cultural barriers more difficult at present but there will always be a Shia in the Sunni wood pile and visa versa

[Rockbridge]

- if a gal runs off with a yankee:p

Which variety of yankee would that be? A carpetbagger (just passing through) or a damn yankee (who has bought the house next door)?

Also resembling the rural invective,
Rockbridge

[AdamG]

Remind me never to bear my soul to this group.

Heard about Houston? Heard about Detroit?
Heard about Pittsburgh, P. A.?
You oughta know not to stand by the window
somebody might see you up there :cool:

[RTK]

Anyone else getting the "Meet Single Arabs Online" add in this thread and the really cute girl?

WAY more enjoyable than the creepy cannon cockers from Norwich.

[Tom Odom]

Anyone else getting the "Meet Single Arabs Online" add in this thread and the really cute girl?

WAY more enjoyable than the creepy cannon cockers from Norwich.

I am.

She looks Lebanese. Waahooooooo!

Tom

[Stan]

Anyone else getting the "Meet Single Arabs Online" add in this thread and the really cute girl?

WAY more enjoyable than the creepy cannon cockers from Norwich.

My ad is in Estonian... The Love Thermometer (http://www.top-mobile-hits.com/ws/acp?sp=372024&t=63000&aspid=3985aab1741265a251b7d0982a5421da&gclid=CInXtI6iqZQCFQunQwoddw7ruA) :eek:

[selil]

I think I'll go start a "Single Life in Thailand Thread..."

[VMI_Marine]

Which variety of yankee would that be? A carpetbagger (just passing through) or a damn yankee (who has bought the house next door)?

Also resembling the rural invective,
Rockbridge

Going by your screen name, I'd guess the latter of the two, who've driven up housing prices in your namesake county. :wry:

Of course, my college room mate's parents fall into that category - they moved down from NJ and bought one of the houses across from the post office back in 99 or so. :cool:

As for "Sleepless in Baghdad", traditional Arab marriages and a divorced man with a kid just don't mix. Good luck with that...

[AdamG]

I am.
She looks Lebanese. Waahooooooo!


Then she likes other girls, so you're still outta luck... :D

[Juan Rico]

- there can still be hell to pay in some families if a gal runs off with a yankee :p

how about runs off w/ a Marine sgt.?

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95799727 (start w/ the Audio Slideshow first)

[reed11b]

how about runs off w/ a Marine sgt.?

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95799727 (start w/ the Audio Slideshow first)

damn it, you didn't warn that there were kids in that story, has to have a warning if kids are involved....:mad: Those cases are the ones that drag you down quick.
Reed

[Jedburgh]

how about runs off w/ a Marine sgt.?

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95799727 (start w/ the Audio Slideshow first)
If you edit out the bit that she's from Iraq, they're really just your typical Ozark, Missouri (http://www.missouritrailertrash.com/) couple......

....."I couldn't afford rings when we got married, but my younger brother — he does tattoos. And he's cheap, so we got him some alcohol, and he got us permanent rings.....

[Uboat509]

There is definitely a trailerish feel to that one. :)

SFC W

[slapout9]

If you edit out the bit that she's from Iraq, they're really just your typical Ozark, Missouri (http://www.missouritrailertrash.com/) couple......


Is that what they mean when they say sub-prime mortgages:wry: