Philly Seeks 10,000 Men to Guard Streets

[sgmgrumpy]

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/PHILADELPHIA_VIOLENCE?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US



:eek:
294 homicides this year. More than 80 percent of the slayings involve handguns, and most involve young black males.


PHILADELPHIA (AP) -- The city's embattled police chief, acknowledging that police alone cannot quell a run of deadly violence, has called on 10,000 black men to patrol the streets to reduce crime.

Sylvester Johnson, who is black, says black men have a duty to protect more vulnerable residents. He wants each volunteer to pledge to work three hours a day for at least 90 days.

"It's time for African-American men to stand up," Johnson told the Philadelphia Daily News, which first reported the story Wednesday. "We have an obligation to protect our women, our children and our elderly. We're going to put men on the street. We're going to train them in conflict resolution."

[goesh]

Some COIN principles applied at home, eh? On the other hand, one could draw a comparison with Iraq and demand that all US Federal involvement in Philly be withdrawn immeidiately what with all the violence and inability of the elected officials to get it under control. I don't do body counts but 294 KIA in Philly probably equals the KIA rate in Iraq

[tequila]

I don't do body counts but 294 KIA in Philly probably equals the KIA rate in Iraq

You're not serious, are you?

[Tacitus]

Some COIN principles applied at home, eh? On the other hand, one could draw a comparison with Iraq and demand that all US Federal involvement in Philly be withdrawn immeidiately what with all the violence and inability of the elected officials to get it under control. I don't do body counts but 294 KIA in Philly probably equals the KIA rate in Iraq

Eagles fans are no doubt smarting after last night's loss. It may take 10,000 men to maintain order today.:D

As for this claim that the KIA rate in Philly equals the KIA rate in Iraq, are you factoring in civilian Iraqi losses there? Please elaborate on this comparison if you are serious.

I can see the Philly chamber of commerece working already, "Reports of the crime rate in Philly are overblown. Why the KIA rate here is about the same as Iraq. Now book those conventions and vacation plans pronto to the City of Brotherly Love!"

[goesh]

I really thought the 294 KIA rate applied to meter clerks, Postmen, cops, dog catchers, tax collectors, firemen, municipal clerks, etc. all taken out with UEDs, urban explosive devices OKA sat. night specials. I should plead innocent by reason of being in multiple sites doing multiple posts when in fact it is insensitivity to violence; the sad fact being that I would estimate at least 2-3 times as many of our troops have been killed in Iraq in the same time frame of the 294 homicides in Philly. Philly being only 1 city out of many here on the home front, I don't yet have the total US homicide number to date, including death by car, blunt object, sharp object, garrot, poison, fire and plain old hands and feet on children. Once I get a good tally of that I can estimate the amount of concern and alarm that should be registered on the home front in comparison to the loss of our soldiers in Iraq. I'm not factoring in civilian deaths in Iraq because even our most astute elected officials agree that said civilian death rate will continue unabated with or without US combat forces on hand. I would then have to tally US accident rates and suicide rates and compare them to and subtract from the estimates of Iraqi civilian deaths. I hope this clarifies the matter.

[Steve Blair]

Let's keep the exchange focused and civil, shall we? I understand the irony in the Iraq-Philly comparison goesh made, but what I'm interested in is an LE opinion: does anyone think this will work? Is it a feasible plan? Or is it just the police chief's bid for more attention for his problems?

[Stan]

Let's keep the exchange focused and civil, shall we? I understand the irony in the Iraq-Philly comparison goesh made, but what I'm interested in is an LE opinion: does anyone think this will work? Is it a feasible plan? Or is it just the police chief's bid for more attention for his problems?

BTW, the population of Philadelphia (http://philadelphia.areaconnect.com/statistics.htm) is 1,517,550. The demographics (listed as Hispanic or Latino and race) are pretty interesting for a town know for steel factories.

My brother lives there and is part of two neighborhood watches. They reportedly started a few years back with little more than men from the neighborhood walking a beat. I understand that some of his team members now carry shotguns.

This article (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-12-04-murders-philadelphia_x.htm) from 2005 clearly indicates that Philly's problems are nothing new.


As homicide figures in other big cities fall, Philadelphia will once again experience more than 300 murders this year. In mid-November, the city surpassed its 2004 death toll of 330 homicides. Now, 352 people have been slain in the city this year. Except for 2002, when an intensive police campaign against open-air drug dealing cut gun violence significantly, Philadelphia has experienced more than 300 murders annually since 2000.

[selil]

<tongue in cheek> Eh. Pikers out their in Philly. What over a million people and a homicide for every 40K people. To get to 300 homicides? I can beat that! Come on down ot Gary, IN my home town where we find the Murder Capital of the United States! 1 homicide for every 1700 or so citizens. Apply that to Iraq and you'd have to off 10K people a year to get to the same rate. The president of the United States will go to Iraq but you won't catch him driving through Gary, IN after dark...</tounge in cheek> Well maybe not so much. http://cbs2chicago.com/topstories/local_story_002191128.html

[slapout9]

The article doesn't really give enough information to say one way or the other if 10,000 men guarding the streets will do anything. They need to understand what is driving the increase in homicides i.e. gang related,drugs,etc. goesh mentioned COIN principles which have a lot of merit in LE. Maybe in this case one of Killcullen's 28 articles "The best things in COIN (change to Government) don't shoot back." LE can enforce the law but the long term issues that I suspect are under lying this issue can not be solved by LE. So as TV Detective Beretta used to say "Thats the name of that tune"

[Rifleman]

Even if it proves to be beneficial it's a stop gap measure.

I'm curious to see what percentage of offenders come from single parent homes or homes where dad was just there in a physical sense.

To use the common computer metaphor, I believe youth are "hardwired" to need a male authority figure. They seem to flock to gangs as much for that as for comrades.

It occurs to me that if you had another 10,000 biological fathers acting as real fathers all these extra men might not be needed on the street. But you can't legislate that, so.....what to do, what to do?

[Anthony Hoh]

I think a 10,000 man militia is a great idea! Look at the success we have had thus far with militias and non government actors thus far in COIN...:eek: Oh wait a minute... never mind

[AdamG]

*Ahem* Funny how "Killadelphia" was the catch phrase right before the mayoral election.

http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN3022050320080130

The city of 1.4 million people had 392 homicides in 2007, down slightly from a nine-year high of 406 in 2006.That high rate, fueled by drugs, poverty, and the easy availability of guns, has led civic and community leaders to repeatedly call for an end to the killings.

Mind you, the PPD knows who these 'usual suspects' are behind most of the problems and even has their faces in a nice dossier. No mention of it in this article, but Ramsey was waving it around for the cameras when he did the big briefing.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/homepage/20080131_Tougher_tactics__lofty_goals.html

Ramsey is striving to reduce the number of homicides in the city this year by 100. Last year, there were 392 killings. So far this year, 25 people have been slain, compared with 32 last January.
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/local/pa/20080201_2_fatally_shot_on_W__Phila__street.html

[Tacitus]

NPR just did a story as a follow up to Philadelphia’s 10,000 man street militia.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91360609

Bottom Line: lack of organization and follow through resulted in about 100 peacekeepers, instead.

Kudos to NPR for following up on a story down the road to see what has happened, after the fanfare has faded.

[Ski]

I'm from Philly and my uncle was a cop there for 30 years.

The murder rates are very skewed. They do not show the true number. He explained how it's done but I forget the ins and outs of how they come up with that number.

Philly never was a steel town. That was Bethlhem, Allentown, Pittsburgh. Philly is a port town, has some oil refineries, a banking industry, and a slowly growing tech sector. The biggest problem Philly faces is the stupid 4% city wage tax - everyone gets 4% lopped off their wages if you work within the city limits - it's stunted development and growth for decades. It's one reason why I left after college.

There are parts of the city that are no bull#### warzones. Go up to North Philly around Temple University hospital - there's an area called the Badlands where the cops patrol with 2-3 cars at a time. West Philly has some similar areas.

[SteveMetz]

I myself volunteered to patrol *this* corner:

http://www.ali-hassan.net/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/genoscheesesteaks.jpg

South Philly has morphed from a predominantly Italian neighborhood to one with huge concentrations of Vietnamese and Hispanics.

[Ski]

The neighborhood I was born in - Port Richmond - has been traditionally been a stronghold of Poles and Lithuianians. Like many other neighborhoods in the city, there has been a slow demographic change as more blacks and Puerto Ricans move in, and more of the Poles and Lithuanians move out after every generation.

And quite frankly, it was a white ghetto back in the 80's, and hasn't improved much since then. Most of the people worked on the docks, at the rubber factory, at the various chemical factories in Bridesburg, or a very few who who worked for the city.

My car has been broken into twice the last two times I visited my grandparents. Will not stay overnight there again.