Distinguished SWC Members, I Need Your Assistance Please

[Stan]

Dear SWC Members,

I could use your help with the following:

During a recent MILIPOL exhibition in Paris, our EOD technicians were approached by Hazard Management Solutions (http://www.hms-online.org/) (HMS Ltd.), offering Basic IEDD training, high threat training, special operations (assault IEDD) training (for those working with Special Forces personnel) and weapons intelligence team training.

According to their Business Development Manager, HMS has taught various bomb disposal courses to LE and Military organizations globally. Examples provided were Sweden, Denmark, NATO, Norway and the USAF.

I’ve never heard of or seen these folks and my contacts with MET-SO13/15 have not used HMS. Does anyone have any information or experience, personal view or opinion, good or bad news they are willing to share ?

Regards, Stan

EDIT: Another link with brief explanations is here (http://www.hazmansol.com/training/eod-iedd-training/)

[Tom Odom]

Stan,

As said earllier in email, I have never heard of them.

Best

Tom

[Stan]

Stan,

As said earllier in email, I have never heard of them.

Best

Tom

Thanks, Tom.
I'm hoping some or our members from the USAF, the U.K. and Australia may be able to shed some light on this.

I've posted on the appropriate forum at AKO, but nobody has heard of these folks.

Regards, Stan

[Steve Blair]

Stan,

I can do some checking around here, but the name isn't ringing any bells, either. Granted I ain't EOD (nor do I play one on TV), but I've heard the names of many of the contracted training companies and this one isn't familiar.

ETA They have a Google trail...some NATO contracts, one for the Army in 2005, and another in 05 for TSWG. No specific AF footprint online, anyhow.

[jcustis]

I will post your questions over at Lightfighter.net's EOD forum. Lot's of guys in the know there, and if they don't know, then they could be suspect.

[Stan]

Thanks for all the e-mails and PMs !

I had hoped to find someone in the Air Force, but will continue digging.

Steve, thanks for the insight, got me off my blind Alpha and started looking deeper.

JC, Thanks. Lightfighter looks like an interesting forum.

[jcustis]

HMS Ltd currently has the NGIC contract to teach the WIT (weapons intelligence teams) training course. Inside word is the training blows and their is very little propper instruction. As far as courses directly for USAF I dont think so. Like I said they teach WIT but that is for NGIC. If they are looking for quality EOD or IED training contact AT-Solutions.

http://www.a-tsolutions.com/AT/Default.aspx

This came from member PYRO. I could work more personal comms directly b/n the two of you if you need.

[Stan]

I thought that this question from Paul needed to be up front and center.

Few of us realize just how much the former east bloc (newly NATO and EU member States) are being bombarded with widgets and gizmos that don't work, and offers of first-class-save-the-planet training visits that would bankrupt a small nation.

Fact is there is no requirement. Over the last 10 years, our members have been trained by ATF, FBI, US Army and Navy, and the UK's MET. 90% of those were free and included functional equipment.

Visits and conferences from Western Europe intentionally place potential (naive) clients with willing (hungry as hell) GWOT widget providers. The well-dressed man handing out CDs and fantastic color brochures has done his homework; reciting passages from history about terrorism, the Red Army and the host country.

I try to weight in as a western sounding board, but in order to convince the upper echelon, I need something they can chew on.

JC, Thanks a ton ! That’s exactly what I needed :)

[nichols]

Stan,

You're last post segues into something that has been bothering me for a while.

Our middle leaders have lost the training edge.

Past training was done primarily by the junior officers & NCOs with the seniors overseeing and mentoring.

GWOT has produced the contractor/GS SME trainers. Small unit leadership for training has turned into only troop movement.

There is a bond that we are losing and training experience that the junior leaders aren't getting.

I'm concerned.

[Stan]

Hey Paul,
Thanks for addressing a problem that boils down to “low creativity - all too often overlooked, lowest bidder to a gubment contract”.

Precisely what happened a week ago with our EOD team’s return and this GWOT-save-me-from-hell-training package – all you need to know about nothing !

What has happened to the NCO chain? Did we seriously turn our responsibilities over to those who took the 40K and ‘got out early’ as E5s and 6s ?

We’ve lost that fear factor (pardon the pun) of seeing an E7 drill sergeant coming and with that, our ability to respect discipline and recognize morals.

[RTK]

Hey Paul,
Thanks for addressing a problem that boils down to “low creativity - all too often overlooked, lowest bidder to a gubment contract”.

Precisely what happened a week ago with our EOD team’s return and this GWOT-save-me-from-hell-training package – all you need to know about nothing !

What has happened to the NCO chain? Did we seriously turn our responsibilities over to those who took the 40K and ‘got out early’ as E5s and 6s ?

We’ve lost that fear factor (pardon the pun) of seeing an E7 drill sergeant coming and with that, our ability to respect discipline and recognize morals.

Bottom line is that in many cases we have outsourced our own training. Training management is a lost art. The stop gap is to get someone else to train your unit. It's a sham and should not be tolerated. At the end of the day the senior NCOs and officer leadership are responsible for the training of their Soldiers. If they can't hack it, they need to find a new job.

[Stan]

Bottom line is that in many cases we have outsourced our own training. Training management is a lost art. The stop gap is to get someone else to train your unit. It's a sham and should be tolerated. At the end of the day the senior NCOs and officer leadership are responsible for the training of their Soldiers. If they can't hack it, they need to find a new job.

Likewise, no gubmen should be able to outsource training for the military..I for one have had enough of telling some Delta Hotel in a smart suit what he should waste our money on.

Get those idiots out of our pockets and back on the beltway where they belong :mad:

[Ken White]

Hey Paul,...
. . .

What has happened to the NCO chain? Did we seriously turn our responsibilities over to those who took the 40K and ‘got out early’ as E5s and 6s ?

We’ve lost that fear factor (pardon the pun) of seeing an E7 drill sergeant coming and with that, our ability to respect discipline and recognize morals.

Yes, unfortunately. We're also in the process of repeating the Viet Nam era mistake. Guys my age got raised right by the WW II folks; we then let down our replacements because we got too busy with a year in VN and less than a year on duty in CONUS. We screwed up. :o

The outsourcing of training and the 'committee' system have deprived too many young NCOs of the knowledge and ability required to train their troops. Even those that can will slip -- if they aren't held responsible for it they won't do it. Fortunately, in good units, that's doesn't happen. Unfortunately, all units are not that good.

Surely you jest? Institute fear in training? UnAmerican! :rolleyes:

[Stan]

Yes, unfortunately. We're also in the process of repeating the Viet Nam era mistake. Guys my age got raised right by the WW II folks; we then let down our replacements because we got too busy with a year in VN and less than a year on duty in CONUS. We screwed up. :o

The outsourcing of training and the 'committee' system have deprived too many young NCOs of the knowledge and ability required to train their troops. Even those that can will slip -- if they aren't held responsible for it they won't do it. Fortunately, in good units, that's doesn't happen. Unfortunately, all units are not that good.

Surely you jest? Institute fear in training? UnAmerican! :rolleyes:

Ken, it's a mistake without regard to when or how it occurred. Jest, thee say? Welcome to Basic Training :cool:

My DI at Bliss and Benning's Black Hats would strike fear in any abnormal GI :D

[Always_BC]

Sirs,

With reference to HMS, the company was established by a former Army Officer who served in Northern Ireland in the 80s and 90s with assistance from an ex SNCO. The company has grown from it's inital product base which included an excellent intelligence document (for the right user) called the Triton Report to now include EOD Training. There are numerous companies as I am sure you are all aware that offer such training.

Some companies tender for these course but then due to their establishment limitations they then have to subcontract to other companies, although I am no expert, this appears to be standard practice amongst many of the civillian companies I have experienced in the UK.

E-mail me if you would like my personal views regards UK based companies I have heard of, or I invite you to visit www.cakeandarse.com, this is a small website populated by the UK Ammunition Technicial community, former and current AT & ATOs. There is an International Forum where you will be able to canvas opinion from the UK technical experts in this field.

Regards BC.