WeaponSurvey // Palestinian military capabilities

[SWCAdmin]

Received this promotional note from the editor at weaponsurvey.

Any thoughts?



WeaponSurvey <http://www.weaponsurvey.com/> (http://www.weaponsurvey.com/) offers readers a detailed presentation of Palestinian military capabilities by meticulously cataloging, analyzing and archiving relevant data, including:

* Rockets, Missiles & Mortars
* IEDs & EFPs (Improvised Explosive Devices & Explosively Formed Projectiles)
* SALW (Small Arms/Light Weapons)
* Chemical and Biological Agents
* Weapons Smuggling Tunnels
* Egypt-PA Border
* Terrorist Groups - Background Information
* Regional Scenario Projections
* Counter-Terrorism Technology

I hope you find the site to be a useful resource.

[Rex Brynen]

Received this promotional note from the editor at weaponsurvey.

Any thoughts?

The website is in large part mish-mash of recycled IDF statements and less-than-reliable (and often highly partisan) press coverage. They also take at face value the often silly, grandiose claims of Palestinian radicals about weapons and their alleged capabilities. (As an aside, it was said in Gaza that when Aaraft's wife, Suha, was pregnant with their daughter, six Palestinian factions claimed responsibility... :D )

For example:


In November 2004, Hamas revealed it was developing the first Palestinian anti-aircraft missile. According to Hamas operative Nizar Rayan, the missile would be used to down Israeli helicopters, UAV’s, and other aircraft operating above the Gaza Strip. Palestinian sources note the anti-aircraft missile project is based on expertise and training provided by Iran and Hizballah. Indeed, Hamas has sought to produce a variant of the Soviet-origin SA-7 - deployed by Hizbullah in southern Lebanon.

... is pretty revealing: anyone who knows anything about the enormous difficulty of developing an indigenous MANPAD, and the shortage of key materials (including reliable propellants and IR guidance electronics) will recognize it as extremely implausible RUMINT. Despite years of IDF claims about SAM-7s in the West Bank and Gaza, no one has yet to fire, find, or see one.

Elsewhere, the site conflates artillery rockets with anti-tank weapons, freely labels any 122mm locally-produced rocket as a "Grad" (even though they're typically made with pipe-casings and homebrew explosives that can't really be aimed and often fail to detonate), and shows a dramatic picture of a BM-21 firing although no Palestinian group in the WBG has MRLs. I could go on and on.. :rolleyes:

This isn't to say that the Palestinian rockets aren't an issue, but the website really doesn't offer any useful insight into inventories, capabilities, employment, or implications.

Oh, and they cite DEBKAfile, which I know is an OS favourite of Ted's ;)

[Sean Osborne]

Received this promotional note from the editor at weaponsurvey.

Any thoughts?

WeaponSurvey.com is an excellent resource, particularly for this community with respect to its focus on the Israeli-Arab conflict.

WeaponSurvey's data is, quite obviously, from the Israeli perspective. It is this perspective which is an obvious prejudicial problem for an Arabist like Rex Brynen. What else is new?:rolleyes:

However, when it comes to the data presented on WeaponSurvey - there is quite simply nothing like it on the world wide web, and the website is indeed a valuable resource for this community. No question about it.

[tequila]

Nothing wrong with an Israeli perspective. What appears troublesome is the BS perspective, which Prof Brynen pointed out and your post has done nothing to dispel beyond accusing him of pro-Arab sympathies.

[Steve Blair]

WeaponSurvey.com is an excellent resource, particularly for this community with respect to its focus on the Israeli-Arab conflict.

WeaponSurvey's data is, quite obviously, from the Israeli perspective. It is this perspective which is an obvious prejudicial problem for an Arabist like Rex Brynen. What else is new?:rolleyes:

However, when it comes to the data presented on WeaponSurvey - there is quite simply nothing like it on the world wide web, and the website is indeed a valuable resource for this community. No question about it.

If you have a dispute with the accuracy of the data, please feel free to comment. If you're going to attack other posters, please refrain.

[Sean Osborne]

tequila,

Excellent - nothing wrong with an Israeli perspective, I concur. That's what I like to see in a forum: even-handed consideration of all-resources utilized in OSINT evaluation of data.

What I don't quite understand is the "BS perspective" you're talking about.

Rex Brynen said, what... that WeaponSurvey.com is


in large part mish-mash of recycled IDF statements

No, absolutely, it is not. Look at the website and all the material within it. It is not "in large part mish-mash of recycled IDF statements." It's much more than that as any objective visitor to the website can clearly see. There are several comments posted from the IDF Spokesperson Office - that is decidedly the Israeli perspective. However the preponderence of data posted to the Weapon Survey - and I am just going to cite the past 30 days of entries here for brevity sake- are attibuted to the following sources:

Reuters
The Guardian
Boeing Corporation
Lockheed-Martin Corporation
Agence France-Presse
FARS
US Congressional Research Service (CRS)
HAMAS website
Ratheon Corporation
Jerusalem Post
Associated Press
Ha'aretz
JCPA
Ma'an (Palestinian) News Agency
Globes
United Kingdom Ministry of Defense
BBC

This is what Rex assails as "large part mish-mash of recycled IDF statements and less-than-reliable (and often highly partisan) press coverage."

Clearly and obviously Rex was grossly incorrect, a point which I have just conclusively proven beyond any doubt. Which of the above OSINT items posted to WeaponSurvey.com in the past month are "less-than-reliable"? Please name at least one out of the above seventeen sources since Rex did not bother to itemize any of these in his smear of Aharon Etengoff's website.

Therefore the pro-Arab prejudicial bias I originally referenced seems quite applicable. It as with anything considered - one must first and foremost CONSIDER THE SOURCE.

As far as Rex's apparent pro-Arab sympathies goes, while not germane to the gist of this thread topic, I'll ask you... Have you seen who Rex has co-authored books with?

Roula el-Rifai
Bassel Salloukh
Bahgat Korany

Are any of these individuals an Israeli citizen? How about even one? Is even one ofthen Jewish? How about Christian? Are they all Arabs?


Steve Blair,

My intent was not to "attack" Rex, but to honestly state my own assessment. Rex did, in fact, attack the work of my friend Aharon Etengoff. It is my opinion that Rex is pro-Arab. My purpose was and remains to acknowledge WeaponSurvey.com as an excellent resource.

[SWCAdmin]

Sean Osborne, you've made your point. Eventually.

I wish you had done so more substantively out of the chute, rather than putting it behind a petty little sledge hammer and delivering it that way as your first post out of the chute.

You're welcome to stick around and have, and express, almost any opinions you want. Just please be less of a dick about it.

Rex Brynen is a council member in good standing. And a big boy. He can take the BS, but shouldn't have to. As for the substantive disagreement, carry on.

[SWCAdmin]

P.S. once past the artfulness of their delivery, there remain two very different opinions here on the viability and balance of the site. Any more opinions on the heart of the issue here -- WeaponsSurvey usefulness, balance, etc. -- are welcome.

Clearly where you stand is influence by where you sit. We are not immune to that here, either.

[Rex Brynen]

Sean:

I don't think that reporting on Palestinian military capabilities is somehow a "pro-Israeli" or "pro-Arab" issue. Rather, the critical question is accuracy and utility.

First, I should clarify that my comments on sources were directed at the thematic section of the website (on "missiles and mortars," "small arms," etc.) and not at the news blog, for the simple reason that much of the news blog is NOT about "Palestinian Weapons Production and Smuggling" at all. Instead, it has news summaries on such completely unrelated topics as Russian naval deployments in the Med, possible PAC-3 sales to Kuwait and the UAE, Boeing tests of in-flight UAV refueling, the possible role of lasers in seawater desalination, the sale of F-18 fuel tanks by Elbit, the Iran NIE, and so forth. By my very rough estimate, only about 25% of the recent material here is relevant to the self-described subject of the website (the proportion is much higher for the 2006 and early 2007 material, which is much more useful). Moreover, a great many stories that ARE relevant to the topic of the website (including, in the last week or so, further developments in the BRDM-2s-for-the-PA story, developments in the WB AMB amnesty, the expanded deployment of PA security forces in the West Bank, mortar and rocket attacks, and much speculation on a Gaza operation) are underreported or not reported at all. There's not much point pointing to the credibility of Boeing, Ratheon, or Lockheed-Martin as sources when they are not sources on Palestinian weapons at all.

Second, it is true, as you note, that many of the sources cited elsewhere on the website are press accounts (although many are also rather partisan think tanks, etc.). However, press sources rarely if ever collect any primary data on Palestinian weapons or weapons capabilities. Instead, they overwhelmingly rely on one or both of two sources: statements by the IDF spokesperson (and other Israeli government claims), or claims by Palestinian militant groups. This is why I referred to the information as "recycled." Neither source is fully reliable, since both tend to overstate both numbers and weapons capabilities, for fairly obvious political reasons.

I did cite just a few cases where the website is clearly wrong (the suggestion of indigenous MANPAD development in Gaza, the implication of MRL deployment in the WBG, the labeling of anything of 122mm calibre a "Grad" as if it had comparable accuracy or lethality.) To this we could add other examples, such as confusion between the heat-seeking SA-7 Strela MANPAD and the (radar-guided) SA-8 (9K33 Osa, or "Gecko").

Moreover, while the website is devoted to Palestinian weapons, is says nothing about weapons belonging to Palestinian factions in Lebanon--notably the PFLP-GC, which does deploy MRLs, as well as tube artillery, recoilless rifles, ATGMs, and probably even some light AFVs, and which is a significant threat to the GoL. One would also have expected that a website on Palestinian weapons would offer some discussion of Fateh al-Islam weapons utilized in the recent fighting in Nahr al-Barid (unless one considers Fateh al-Islam as a non-Palestinian group--which would be fair enough, although many/most of their weapons were inherited from the decidedly Palestinian Fateh al-Intifada).

On weapons acquisition, the website does discuss cross-border and maritime smuggling into Gaza (although with much less information on the latter than is available OS). However, it fails to discuss other means of small arms proliferation (particularly important in the West Bank): leakage or capture from the Palestinian security forces, and the sale of weapons from the Israeli black market (including criminal gangs, settlers, and some IDF personnel). Again, there is considerable OS reporting on this, including some successful Israeli criminal prosecutions. There has also been spot OS reporting of Palestinian black market prices for weapons and ammunition, which can be a rather useful gauge of supply and demand.

The section on Palestinian terrorist groups lists Hamas and PIJ, but omits a great many others (the AMB, the Gaza PRC, the PFLP-GC, etc.) It also contains misleading language (for example, listing Lebanon as a "PIJ sponsor", or its characterization of Hamas' electoral platform in 2006). It contains less information on the frequency and nature of armed attacks than the IDF or Israeli MFA websites.

Finally, this is rather odd:


As far as Rex's apparent pro-Arab sympathies goes, while not germane to the gist of this thread topic, I'll ask you... Have you seen who Rex has co-authored books with?

Roula el-Rifai
Bassel Salloukh
Bahgat Korany

Are any of these individuals an Israeli citizen? How about even one? Is even one ofthen Jewish? How about Christian? Are they all Arabs?


I absolutely fail to see how the ethnic profiling of my coauthors and coeditors is relevant. More revealing, however, is the extent to which you seem to have deliberately omitted mention of non-Arab (including Jewish) colleagues with whom I’ve coauthored or coedited books, chapters, or articles. I suppose this is because they didn't fit with the political slur that you are apparently trying to make.

I, happily, do not live in a zero-sum world where you must be pro-Israeli or pro-Arab, and where such tribalisms determine the quality of one’s work. Accurate data is accurate data, and good analysis is good analysis--regardless of source. The same is equally true of bad data and analysis.

Oh, and since you seem so eager to judge my comments on the basis of my political or policy positions, I have no objection to making those explicit: I favour a negotiated, mutually-acceptable, two-state solution to the conflict that guarantees both Israeli security and Palestinian self-determination. In my view, the Clinton Parameters, the Taba negotiations, and the (unofficial) Geneva Accords represent the foundations for precisely such an agreement. Such a resolution of the conflict is, in my view, in the interests of both peoples, as well as regional and global peace and security.

If the website authors would like some more detailed advice on how to strengthen their reporting and analytical product, they are invited to send me a private email. I, like most people working in this area, would welcome a reliable and sound source of current information on Palestinian military capabilities.

[Sean Osborne]

the critical question is accuracy and utility.

Rex,

It was apparent to myself that your pro-Palestinian pro-Arab views (bias) was reflected in your review of WeaponSurvey.com and this is my strongly held opinion.


I should clarify that my comments on sources were directed at the thematic section of the website (on "missiles and mortars," "small arms," etc.) and not at the news blog...

No sir. Your comment was directed, and I quote you, at "The website..."

And even if I were to accept your clarification, the sections of Aharon Etengoff's work found in "MISSILES & MORTARS" and "SMALL ARMS" have 18 and 3 detailed footnotes, respectively, which cite more than two dozen authors and media sources.

These are peer authors and media sources which by your own admission are cited as "less-than-reliable."

I believe that Aharon Etengoff's "WEAPON SURVEY: PALESTINIAN WEAPONS PRODUCTION & SMUGGLING" website is a unique entity on the world wide web. There is none other like it on the internet.

Therefore, my initial assessment stands as posted. I love the website, I think it has great value for the membership of Small Wars Council.

[Rex Brynen]

One thing that I know worries IDF planners contemplating a Gaza ground operation is the extent to which Hamas has learned to apply IED lessons from Lebanon and especially Iraq.

Politically, Israel is enormously sensitive to military casualties. A single deep-buried IED that destroys a Merkava or APC can rapidly transform military success into a political liability. There had been a few cases of this pre-Gaza disengagement, but its clear now that both the demonstration effect of IED use elsewhere coupled with greater access to explosives, better preparation time, tunneling under key access roads, etc. makes this much more of a potential challenge.

While it is hardly the major factor shaping Israeli punitive and retaliatory strategy (post-Annapolis diplomatic developments are far, far more important), it does increase the political risk of a ground operation.

It also points to the significance of Iraq-style tactics spreading further afield (not that many of them are really new, but access to both examples and technical knowledge has certainly proliferated).

[Stan]

Overall, the website is easy to navigate but lacks any detailed data on IEDs and modified projectiles. The references should contain direct links to articles, etc.

The single jpeg and accompanying text of ‘hand-made’ mortars for example, does not adequately source or detail information (the jpeg certainly does not contain 240mm mortars hoisted on one’s shoulders for parades). If these mortars were indeed hand-made, were the fuses also hand-made, and what was the recorded forensic breakdown of the explosives?

The references contain plenty of news quotes without links to the pertinent articles. Journalists aside for a second, what did Boeing, Lockheed-Martin, Ratheon and The UK MOD have to say about IEDs and modified Projectiles ?

In sum, I’m looking for more detailed, sourced and analyzed information.

[Sean Osborne]

Overall, the website is easy to navigate but lacks any detailed data on IEDs and modified projectiles. The references should contain direct links to articles, etc.

IED's have not been a mainstay of Palestinian terrorist weaponry, therefore the lack of any data relevant to "Palestinian Weapons Production & Smuggling" is similarly limited. With respect to modified projectiles, they are abundantly referenced in production by HAMAS and other Palestinian terrorist groups. Direct links are not a requirement, but abuntantly referenced material is a manistay of this website.


The single jpeg and accompanying text of ‘hand-made’ mortars for example, does not adequately source or detail information (the jpeg certainly does not contain 240mm mortars hoisted on one’s shoulders for parades). If these mortars were indeed hand-made, were the fuses also hand-made, and what was the recorded forensic breakdown of the explosives?

You'll have to be more specific here. I've seen nothing on WeaponSurey.com with a single jpeg that has an accompanying text on 'hand-made" mortars.
There is a "Mortar" section which references "Various Palestinian terror groups manufacture mortars in workshops and factories throughout the Gaza Strip" but this speaks to large-scale manufacturing, not "hand-made" per se.
There is nothing in the text which even suggests the shoulder-borne mortar rounds in the jpeg image are the Sariya-1 240mm heavy mortar. However, a Google search with "Sariya-1" as the search criteria will show that there is virtually no detailed information on this weapon anywhere on the web. There is a link to request detailed information at the bottom of the page should your requirements need extra detail.


The references contain plenty of news quotes without links to the pertinent articles. Journalists aside for a second, what did Boeing, Lockheed-Martin, Ratheon and The UK MOD have to say about IEDs and modified Projectiles ?

As stated, the references are abundant for any determined researcher who wishes to check facts. Regarding Boeing, Lockhhed-Martin, Raytheon and the UK MoD and IED's or modified projectiles - nothing was said or even intimated by WeaponSurvey.com. IED's first appear in this thread in Rex' post above.


In sum, I’m looking for more detailed, sourced and analyzed information.

Good luck in finding more "detailed, sourced and analyzed information" specific to the genre of Palestinian weapons which is available for free on the world wide web. I assure you - other than WeaponSurvey.com - it does not exist.

[Ron Humphrey]

Received this promotional note from the editor at weaponsurvey.

Any thoughts?

Although the site does offer some interesting options and quite a bit of information, my gut reaction to the wholistic aspect of it is that it spends a lot of time focused on Israeli concerns, fears, weaknesses, and defining claimed strengths and capabilities of various terror organizations. Also the analytic aspects of weapons defined do leave quite a bit to be desired in detail.

Also just a note to Sean although it doesn't necessarily mean anything; the fact that one is given front page exposure on a site might lead some to consider ones ability to remain completely objective as to its overall usefulness.

That being said I think I will continue to review it for a while before making a final decision for myself.

Just my 1 1/2 ....:)

[Rex Brynen]

IED's have not been a mainstay of Palestinian terrorist weaponry, therefore the lack of any data relevant to "Palestinian Weapons Production & Smuggling" is similarly limited.

Leaving aside the use of PBIEDs in attacks against Israeli civilian targets, IEDs, VBIEDS, and HBIEDS have figured significantly during MOUT, notably during fighting in Jenin refugee camp in April 2002, and in several incursions into built-up areas of Gaza. With regard to the Jenin operation (the single largest IDF death toll in operations against a Palestinian force since the 1982 invasion of Lebanon):


52. As described by the Government of Israel, "a heavy battle took place in Jenin, during which IDF soldiers were forced to fight among booby-trapped houses and bomb fields throughout the camp, which were prepared in advance as a booby-trapped battlefield". The Palestinian Authority acknowledges that "a number of Palestinian fighters resisted the Israeli military assault and were armed only with rifles and … crude explosives". An IDF spokesman offered a slightly different portrayal of the resistance, stating that the soldiers had faced "more than a thousand explosive charges, live explosive charges and some more sophisticated ones, … hundreds of hand grenades … [and] hundreds of gunmen". Human rights reports support the assertions that some buildings had been booby-trapped by the Palestinian combatants. (From the Report of the Secretary-General prepared pursuant to General Assembly resolution ES-10/10 (Report on Jenin (http://www.un.org/peace/jenin/))

Israel also lost several Merkavas in Gaza (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2765545.stm) to large, deep-buried IEDs.

Since disengagement, and especially since the Hamas takeover of Gaza, it is likely that even more attention has been given to IED deployment along likely IDF axes of attack. This has been widely reported in the Israeli press (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3361228,00.html).

[Stan]

IED's have not been a mainstay of Palestinian terrorist weaponry, therefore the lack of any data relevant to "Palestinian Weapons Production & Smuggling" is similarly limited. With respect to modified projectiles, they are abundantly referenced in production by HAMAS and other Palestinian terrorist groups. Direct links are not a requirement, but abuntantly referenced material is a manistay of this website.

The website boasts archived relevant data and lists number two with IEDs and EFPs. If there's such a huge information void, why bother listing said? Fact is direct links are but common courtesy to the readers (if the site claims abundant reference material, why not link(s) to quickly assist readers ?).

Based on the advertisement below...I don't get it :confused:


WeaponSurvey <http://www.weaponsurvey.com/> offers readers a detailed presentation of Palestinian military capabilities by meticulously cataloging, analyzing and archiving relevant data, including:

* Rockets, Missiles & Mortars
* IEDs & EFPs (Improvised Explosive Devices & Explosively Formed Projectiles)

I hope you find the site to be a useful resource.


You'll have to be more specific here. I've seen nothing on WeaponSurey.com with a single jpeg that has an accompanying text on 'hand-made" mortars. There is a "Mortar" section which references "Various Palestinian terror groups manufacture mortars in workshops and factories throughout the Gaza Strip" but this speaks to large-scale manufacturing, not "hand-made" per se. There is nothing in the text which even suggests the shoulder-borne mortar rounds in the jpeg image are the Sariya-1 240mm heavy mortar. However, a Google search with "Sariya-1" as the search criteria will show that there is virtually no detailed information on this weapon anywhere on the web. There is a link to request detailed information at the bottom of the page should your requirements need extra detail.

If you page down to mortars (there's only one jpeg), the only text that is at all specific regarding mortar dimensions is just below the picture. That's misleading to the common (non-military) reader. Hand-made was a bad choice of words on my part, but ‘manufacturing in workshops and factories throughout the Gaza Strip’ should be supported with references and links. A short caption below the jpeg and before the accompanying text would clarify the picture prior to mentioning 240mm mortars.


You'll As stated, the references are abundant for any determined researcher who wishes to check facts. Regarding Boeing, Lockhhed-Martin, Raytheon and the UK MoD and IED's or modified projectiles - nothing was said or even intimated by WeaponSurvey.com. IED's first appear in this thread in Rex' post above.
That’s just the point ! I am not a determined researcher and certainly not interested in checking the facts at weapon survey. Folks at Boeing and the UK’s MOD normally do however check their facts before releasing said to the general public. Hence my particular interest in their views. IEDs first appeared in this thread from the very beginning, and not with Rex.



Good luck in finding more "detailed, sourced and analyzed information" specific to the genre of Palestinian weapons which is available for free on the world wide web. I assure you - other than WeaponSurvey.com - it does not exist.

This is not a shopping excursion. The site boasts IED info, but yet doesn’t have any. Better to remove that sub category until such time as info is posted.

[Sean Osborne]

The site boasts IED info, but yet doesn’t have any.
The site doesn't "boast" any such thing with respect to IED's. It lists IEDs and EFPs among the other bulleted items.

And I certainly did not say it doesn't have an IED section as you have.

It does.

I said "IEDs have not been a mainstay of Palestinian terrorist weaponry, therefore the lack of any data relevant to "Palestinian Weapons Production & Smuggling" is similarly limited."

There is a section on IED's. You'll find it HERE. (http://weaponsurvey.com/landmines.htm)

[Sean Osborne]

Although the site does offer some interesting options and quite a bit of information...

Yes, it does


my gut reaction to the wholistic aspect of it is that it spends a lot of time focused on Israeli concerns, fears, weaknesses, and defining claimed strengths and capabilities of various terror organizations.

Yeah, roger. I stated from the get-go that "WeaponSurvey's data is, quite obviously, from the Israeli perspective." I would expect nothing less from a former IDF soldier.


Also the analytic aspects of weapons defined do leave quite a bit to be desired in detail.

Well, when you find a website that fulfills your desires with respect to details on Palestinian weapons - please inform us of of it. Yet I think below you state that you've yet to arrive at a final decision.


Also just a note to Sean although it doesn't necessarily mean anything; the fact that one is given front page exposure on a site might lead some to consider ones ability to remain completely objective as to its overall usefulness.

Were friends, colleagues, have shared interests and we've both worn the military uniforms of our respective nations and been in harms way in the Middle East. That's my objectivity in a nutshell.

As a matter of curiosity, I wonder how many others interested in this thread topic can make a similar statement?


That being said I think I will continue to review it for a while before making a final decision for myself.

Good call. Enjoy the site.

Given that a full-scale war in the Middle East remains a very likely prospect in the near-term, the site may be of more value than many now realize.

[Rex Brynen]

Given that a full-scale war in the Middle East remains a very likely prospect in the near-term, the site may be of more value than many now realize.

Might I ask between whom?

Is this somehow related to the jihadist plot to use 17 stolen school buses, dead birds, exploding gas pipelines, and Metro power outages to destroy America (http://www.homelandsecurityus.com/node/1170)?

[Ken White]

. . .
As a matter of curiosity, I wonder how many others interested in this thread topic can make a similar statement?

Many may be interested but not commenting.

Is the adversarial tone really necessary?

[Stan]

Thanks for the link to a shape charge, M2HB and landmine.


There is a section on IED's. You'll find it HERE. (http://weaponsurvey.com/landmines.htm)

As Ken so eloquently stated, quite a few, but how many are interested in commented or getting into a pissin' contest.



Were friends, colleagues, have shared interests and we've both worn the military uniforms of our respective nations and been in harms way in the Middle East...

...As a matter of curiosity, I wonder how many others interested in this thread topic can make a similar statement?

[Stan]

Rex, are you sure you have the correct link ? Almost all the hyperlinks (there) go to Deals - Dot - Com and some go to
This site is no longer in service or has been disabled due to a terms of service violation:confused:


Is this somehow related to the jihadist plot to use 17 stolen school buses, dead birds, exploding gas pipelines, and Metro power outages to destroy America (http://www.homelandsecurityus.com/node/1170)?

[Sean Osborne]

Might I ask between whom?

With respect to my statement:


Given that a full-scale war in the Middle East remains a very likely prospect in the near-term, the site may be of more value than many now realize.

The "whom" I am referring to is the prospect of a near-term war between Israel and Syria (backed by Iran, and supported by Palestinian terrorists in the WB & G, and Hezbollah in southern Lebanon). Palestinian weapons inventory, indigenously manufactured or smuggled, would figure prominently in any conflict. Obviously so.


Is this somehow related to the jihadist plot to use 17 stolen school buses, dead birds, exploding gas pipelines, and Metro power outages to destroy America (http://www.homelandsecurityus.com/node/1170)?

No, the potential prospect of war in the Middle East has no direct relation to potential Islamic insurgency issues in the US homeland which you cite from my report.

However, Islamic terrorism in the US homeland is indirectly related to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. This is due to the fact that Islam is currently in an active phase of insurgency against all states in the Judeo-Christian west.

America just happens to be a target of Islamic Jihadism in addition to Israel. Should war or military operations between the US and Iran occur (in preemption of Iranian nuclear weapons ambition - it is a virtual certainty that Hezbollah and Al Qaeda, and perhaps HAMAS operative in this country would act against our infrastructure. No doubt about it.

[Sean Osborne]

Rex, are you sure you have the correct link ? Almost all the hyperlinks (there) go to Deals - Dot - Com and some go to :confused:

Stan,

Ordinarily I defer from responding to obvious baiting and trolling, but in the potential chance that you do have a technical issue...

Check your PC or Laptop for a proper internet connection. The link provided by Rex - and within your quote including that same link - is fully functional.
0h for Two must be indicative of "operator error."

[Stan]

Sean,
I've checked my laptop and connection, no changes. Switched to Explorer from Firefox, same deal. The link to your blog works, but the hyperlinks in your blog all go 'shopping' or link to "This site is no longer in service or has been disabled due to a terms of service violation".

Not My Computer, Connection, or do I Troll herein.

Please allow me...I'll begin by deferring as of this very minute.



Stan,

Ordinarily I defer from responding to obvious baiting and trolling, but in the potential chance that you do have a technical issue...

Check your PC or Laptop for a proper internet connection. The link provided by Rex - and within your quote including that same link - is fully functional.
0h for Two must be indicative of "operator error."

[Sean Osborne]

Sean,
I've checked my laptop and connection, no changes. Switched to Explorer from Firefox, same deal. The link to your blog works, but the hyperlinks in your blog all go 'shopping' or link to

Well, I do believe there may be some operator error involved as the link posted by Rex Brynen does not go to The NEIN Blog.

The link posted by Rex Brynen is a direct URL to an article I wrote and posted to the Northeast Intelligence Network website.

What any of this has to due with the topic of this thread is beyond me... seems to be an off topic segue for sure, perhaps even thread hijack.

I am not the issue here... Aharon Etengoff's WeaponSurvey.com website is the thread specific issue. Period.

[SWCAdmin]

Well, I do believe there may be some operator error involved as the link posted by Rex Brynen does not go to The NEIN Blog.

<SNIP>

I am not the issue here... Aharon Etengoff's WeaponSurvey.com website is the thread specific issue. Period.
Doesn't go the NEIN blog? No one said it did. Thanks for the extra detail.

And thanks for bringing us back to the topic. Let's stay there. With less ### for tat.

[Sean Osborne]

Doesn't go the NEIN blog? No one said it did.

There is a bit of bad commo going on here. There is a NEIN website (homelandsecurityus.com). There is also a supplementary NEINblog that I maintain at blogspot.com. That's where the confusion lies. Stan referenced my blog - which is a related but different entity than the website link posted by Rex Brynen.

I apologized to Stan privately, and I do so now publicly. I don't know what those imbedded hyperlinks are all about - not my doing, but I suspect revenue from them is used to offset the cost of maintaining the website and its bandwidth usage.

Again, I can't apologize for Rex posting that link which has nothing to do with this thread topic, but I do apologize for the disruption to the forum caused by its posting.



And thanks for bringing us back to the topic. Let's stay there. With less ### for tat.

Agreed, back on topic.