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William F. Owen
04-06-2008, 07:36 AM
Folks,

I need a little help with my current book. Please could those of you with actual recent trigger pulling operational experience post or PM me, what you have actually carried on operations. Just list everything, bar clothing from your helmet down - and the context - eg: Patrolling, and working from vehicles.

Please don't put weights. I have almost all the item weight data I need.

- I even know what Ken's suit of armour weighed! :D

NOTE: This may be of interest. When I asked this question of some Falklands Veterans, they all gave me weights of near 100-150lbs. Analysis of the actual load, (listed by equipment item- and referenced against photographs) showed loads of about 80-100lbs. Still way too much, but not what they estimated.

Xenophon
04-06-2008, 04:41 PM
For mounted patrols, and short distance foot patrols:
MTV (which sucks), M4 w/M203, M9, KA-BAR, eight M-4 mags, 3 M9 mags, (not including the two mags in the weapon), I-FAK, dump pouch, note-taking gear in my cargo pocket, and PRC-148 radio. All of this on my flak since that trendy leg flair is stupid.

For longer dismounted patrols I have a small patrol pack with water, three or four smoke grenades, DAGR, three or four pop-ups, NVGs, PLB, extra batteries for NVGs, DAGR, and PRC-148, and another I-FAK.

I've changed this setup a lot since I've been in country, but this has lasted for about two months. Works in an advisory setting. I'm supposed to have the NVGs and PLB on my body at all times as per Echelons Above Reality SOP, but whatever.

Xenophon
04-06-2008, 04:43 PM
Oh, and add a bandoleer with six M203 grenades into long patrols.

William F. Owen
04-07-2008, 12:32 PM
Thanks all round and to the PM'ers as well. Seems to a distinctive trend emerging.

Views on when and how to use body armour would also be appreciated.

Boot
04-08-2008, 12:47 AM
Folks,

I need a little help with my current book. Please could those of you with actual recent trigger pulling operational experience post or PM me, what you have actually carried on operations. Just list everything, bar clothing from your helmet down - and the context - eg: Patrolling, and working from vehicles.

Please don't put weights. I have almost all the item weight data I need.

- I even know what Ken's suit of armour weighed! :D

NOTE: This may be of interest. When I asked this question of some Falklands Veterans, they all gave me weights of near 100-150lbs. Analysis of the actual load, (listed by equipment item- and referenced against photographs) showed loads of about 80-100lbs. Still way too much, but not what they estimated.

I carried M4, 6 Mags (one loaded in the rifle), 2 grenades, M9, 4 pistol mags (one loaded), 2 IV bags, extra first aid gear, quick tourniquet, wore a camelbak, strobe, a couple of pop ups, PRC 148 (not all the time), note taking gear (stowed in a pocket on my body armor), SeAL Pup Knife, jack the ripper, PLB, NVG's (when needed). I also wore prescription ballistic ESS eyewear that are photostatic lenses. In some cases I wore the flame resistant hood and usually wore the Nomex flight suit.

Wrt to Armor. Always wore it in city's and traveling. Heck I wore mine always when patroling or outside the wire. In one case I wanted to drop it. We were in Diyala in a river valley. THe jungle and Pamnegard grove was VERY thick and there was a lot of small canals that if you fell in w/all that armor you would probably drown.
I wore the new vest that Gen Conway doesn't like. Except for putting it on, it was an easy vest to wear. It also had little pockets here and there to put things. I also liked the fact I could quick release it if necessary.
Hope this helps. Note: see picture.

selil
04-08-2008, 01:06 AM
Is it my imagination or are grunts carrying more stuff and less ammo than they used to in the 1980's?

Ken White
04-08-2008, 01:10 AM
Is it my imagination or are grunts carrying more stuff and less ammo than they used to in the 1980's?

I'm not even gonna mention how little I carried; too long ago anyway...:o

Boot
04-08-2008, 01:58 AM
Is it my imagination or are grunts carrying more stuff and less ammo than they used to in the 1980's?

I was a grunt in the 1980's and I carried more weight now. Of course you don't need your pack to live out of so you don't carry that. My six mags held plus the one in the chamber came out to about 210 rounds. In the gun truck (which was always close) We had a plenty of ammo cans full of ammo. The pistol? Heck that was just so you could fight your way to a bigger system. Not to be confused with something you fought with.

ODB
04-08-2008, 03:01 AM
Views on when and how to use body armour would also be appreciated.

This is has a lot of variables to it. Intial OEF and OIF I was a huge advocate for not wearing body armour. At this time body armour as we know it today was just starting to be implemented. (Did initial tests on the IBA but that is a whole story in itself) I was of the school of thought I needed my speed and mobility and that was my protection. Additionally we hadn't trained constantly with it on to adapt to it. With the current situation in Afghanistan and Iraq with IEDs I wouldn't be caught dead in a vehicle without. As far as that goes I have 4 different types of body armour all configured basically the same way. I use my MBAV for any mounted operation (add shoulder plates and side plates when on the gun). This set provides me with the most protection from the biggest threat IEDs. I use an updated version of the RBA for fly away missions. Provides excellent protection but is smaller in size overall and fits really snug, providing me more mobility. My 3rd set is a plate carrier for any kind of static operations. Much easier to move with and stay in if need be in a hide site and can really move out if need be and still have some form of protection. My 4th set is Level IV concealable (anything further would be OPSEC). Having the ability to do this is a luxury many of our soldiers do not have, for most it is one set to do all. Overall I believe one has to assess the threat and the equipment he has to neutralize that threat as much as possible.

To add to my note on training with it. We went from it being a requirement for maneuver live fires only to wearing it for all training events today. As deployment time comes we add in weekly body armour runs. Granted they don't have a combat load but vest and plates will wear you out quick but pays dividends later.

Hope this helped.

Cavguy
04-08-2008, 05:03 AM
Best as I can remember .....

IBA w/throat and groin protector* & ESAPI (front/rear)(I chose not to wear side SAPI)
M4 Carbine with M68 Sight, PEQ-2,and Flashlight, and forward grip
M9 Pistol
ACH helmet
Camelback*
8x 5.56 30rd mags carried on person, 1x in weapon
2x 9mm Mags
MBITR radio*
notebook+pens
flashlight (in extra ammo pouch)
candy for handing out to kids (bag worth)
IFAK
Kneepad(s), eventually I only wore one, so I could drop to a knee painlessly.
ACU, combat boots.
PVS-4* (at night, otherwise in nearby vehicle)
Ballistic glasses

*=METT-T

William F. Owen
04-08-2008, 06:33 AM
On basis are M9 Pistols issued. I assume all the respondents are officers and this carry a 9mm pistol as they would a PRC-148. Correct?

Uboat509
04-08-2008, 09:33 AM
I wore eagle body armor w/o side plates, shoulder pads or groin protector. 8x M4 mags, 3xM9 mags, PRC 148 radio, folding knife, camelback, 2x frags, 2x bangs, ACH, strobe, headlamp, blowout kit, NVGs, M4 with ACOG and red dot sight, M9 in a Safariland holster on my vest, two hemostats, emt shears, tourniquet ready to apply plus I generally wore one on each leg secured to my belt ready to be tightened. I am not an officer. I am merely enlisted swine but in the community where I work, we all have M9s as a secondary.

SFC W

Surferbeetle
04-08-2008, 11:39 AM
William,

In answer to your question M9 use varies by mission.

As to gear (OIF 1):

Camera
Notebook & Pen
Motorola
GPS
Knife (CRKT)
M9 (2 mags)
M16 (the 'musket' - non collapseable stock) (3 mags)
Kevlar Helmet
Didn't have sapi plates until just before leaving, but I wore the vest
No sunglasses

Daypack with water, advanced first aid kit, mre, school supplies & candy stayed in the truck

William F. Owen
04-08-2008, 12:48 PM
Guys, really appreciate the feed back.

It seems apparent, from a rough estimate, that as concerns getting out of a vehicle getting on foot for a couple of hours, no one seems to be much over 22-25kg, which if you are 75-80kg seems manageable. I'll do some hard numbers later.

jcustis
04-08-2008, 01:47 PM
Wilf,

Add to that the concerns of some folks who are in armor, but have to transition between riding and walking often. For example, try as I might, I could not mount much to my body armor because I would have gotten hung up on the lip of the turret hatch holes if I had to drop down in event of a rollover.

I was a staff guy last go-around, and can recall carrying the following:

-IFAK
-M4 (5 mags) and M9 (3 mags)
-Wiley-X glasses and ESS goggles
-Utility pouch w/ air panel, flashlight, pad and pens, IR buzzsaw
-Front and back plates for issued body armor
-Lightweight helmet (USMC issue)
-a Tourni-kwik tourniquet in one bicep pocket and a pressure dressing in the opposite pocket