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marct
04-19-2008, 05:42 PM
Hi Guys,

I was sitting around having a beer with my wife before my concert last night and we got into a discussion about people playing music in theatre - especially metal. I remember seeing something on 60 Minutes about people in Iraq patching their iPods into speaker systems, and that led to wonder about what type of music people were playing during different types of activities.

One of the areas I've been researching for about 4-5 years now has been the effects of music on consciousness - so far limited to differences between Baroque and popular music, but one of my best students has been looking into metal.

So, what I'm wondering about now is there any articular type or genre of music that is associated with particular types of in theatre operations? Are there any particular songs that are associated with perceptions of what is immediately happening?

Any thoughts, etc. would be welcome. Thanks,

Marc

Gian P Gentile
04-19-2008, 09:02 PM
Marc:

Are you referring to Iraqis, Americans, or both?

gian

Rank amateur
04-19-2008, 09:04 PM
You need to check out The Doonesbury character Toggle.

Start here and click forward. (http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/dailydose/index.html?uc_full_date=20071126) PS. the first punchline reminds me of Rob.

SteveMetz
04-19-2008, 09:40 PM
Isn't "The Ride of the Valkyries" still required for air assault missions?

Umar Al-Mokhtār
04-19-2008, 09:50 PM
Classic!

In Gulf War I we would listen to bands like Poison, Guns n Roses, Cheap Trick, Motley Crue, Metallica, Slayer, Megadeth, Def Leppard, Van Halen, Ratt, and Anthrax. We usually had a mix of both CDs and tapes and most times only listened in one ear.

patmc
04-19-2008, 09:56 PM
During convoys, no music. Just the sound of the truck and the road. Not much fun, but you cannot hear the radios or the driver and gunner otherwise. Sucks, but driving around Iraq sucks, so its not a huge shock.

marct
04-19-2008, 09:58 PM
Hi gian,

Mainly us forces. BTW sorry for the short reply, but I'm in a recoding session now.


Marc:

Are you referring to Iraqis, Americans, or both?

gian

bismark17
04-19-2008, 10:23 PM
Use of music that is not popular with the targeted audience has been used for years in Crime Prevention Through Environmental Design(CPTED) to displace problems at specific sites. I'm sure this is documented in various POP and DOJ studies.

Entropy
04-19-2008, 10:24 PM
For me in Afghanistan in 2005, it was Team America: World Police - both the movie and soundtrack. I can't hear or watch either without bringing back memories of Afghanistan, but anytime anything was actually going on, any TV or music or whatever would be turned off to hear the radios. So nothing comes to mind that I could associate with a particular activity.

Ken White
04-19-2008, 11:21 PM
the popular shooting music in Viet Nam was "Miss American Pie," M-60 gunners and Gunship Pilots all knew it...

In Korea it was "Moving On" -- with significantly modified lyrics and a tip of the hat to that Canadian Icon, Clarence E. Snow. :D

Surferbeetle
04-19-2008, 11:55 PM
In the Iraqi Cafe's and streets there was a fusion of pop and classic middle east music that was pretty interesting. The videos showed alot more skin than I was expecting....about 95% of the people on the street in Mosul were men. After about 7 girls disappered and the only other women I would see looked to be about 60 or so with tribal tattoos on their faces.

For us Americans it was your favorite music back at the hooch and HALO until about 12 or 1 in the morning (on the big-screens) first prayer and the first round of incoming arond 3 or 4 came quickly. As a geezer I watched more HALO than played because the younger generation is/was much better than I at HALO and they quickly became bored with toasting me...

There were quite a bit of bootleg movies out for sale on the streets...you could tell someone was recording it in a movie theater with a camera but it added to the charm...

SteveMetz
04-20-2008, 12:56 AM
Use of music that is not popular with the targeted audience has been used for years in Crime Prevention Through Environmental Design(CPTED) to displace problems at specific sites. I'm sure this is documented in various POP and DOJ studies.

As I watched all five seasons of The Wire over a two month period, I kept thinking that the cops should set up big speakers with polka music on the worst corners. ---Roll out the barrel.....

Gian P Gentile
04-20-2008, 01:50 AM
Marc:

What might be an interesting line of inquiry for you on this topic is music played at memorial services in Iraq for fallen american soldiers. When I was there we referred to it in the program as "special music." At the memorial ceremonies for the soldiers from my squadron we usually stuck with the basics like "Amazing Grace" perhaps sung by a soldier with a good voice, or I remember once having "Amazing Grace" played by a british doctor from the green zone who played the bag pipes; pretty moving.

But the best special music I remember and draws me back to it every time i hear the song on the radio is Bob Dylan's "Knockn' on Heaven's Door." At this memorial ceremony for a fallen infantryman 3 soldiers from his platoon, all talented musicians, played a version of it in the chapel with drums, a bass, and electric guitar along with a young man who had a very good voice.

I will never forget the subtle but resonating guitar riffs in synch with the lyrics to the song; and I am still deeply moved when I hear these lyrics to it:

Mama put my guns in the ground
I can't shoot them anymore
that long black cloud is comin' down
I feel I'm knockn' on heaven's door

Anyway, thought Iwould share that with you.

What instrument to you play?

gian

marct
04-20-2008, 02:30 AM
Hi Gian,


What might be an interesting line of inquiry for you on this topic is music played at memorial services in Iraq for fallen american soldiers. When I was there we referred to it in the program as "special music." .....

But the best special music I remember and draws me back to it every time i hear the song on the radio is Bob Dylan's "Knockn' on Heaven's Door." At this memorial ceremony for a fallen infantryman 3 soldiers from his platoon, all talented musicians, played a version of it in the chapel with drums, a bass, and electric guitar along with a young man who had a very good voice.

Thanks for sharing that, Gian. I can picture it and it would be really moving.

On the whole, I'm trying to avoid looking at situations where the music might be programmed by official convention - Amazing Grace would be an example of that. What I am really interested in is the almost circular feedback loop between a state of consciousness and a genre of music or specific piece. Steve's comment about Ride of the Valkyries or Ken's about American Pie would be specific pieces (okay, I can definitely see Ride of the Valkyries, but American Pie?!).


What instrument to you play?

I'm a Baroque singer :). Tonight's recording was BWV 4 Christ lad in Todesbanden and BWV 78 Jesu, der du meine Seele. Tomorrow afternoon, we are recording BWV 227 Jesu meine Freude (these are the works we did in our concert last night (http://ottawabachchoir.ca/eng/concerts/2007-2008/Concert_0708_en-05.htm)).

Part of the reason behind the interest in in theatre music and how it's used comes from being a musician myself. I've found hat I can "program" my mind (and emotions) to think/perceive in certain ways by controlling what music I listen to and I've also noticed that a number of people I know, both musicians and non-musicians, will do the same. I've also seen people who go through some pretty profound shifts in their lives (e.g. losing a long time job, getting a divorce, etc.) will sometimes change their entire taste in music.

Marc

marct
04-20-2008, 02:31 AM
Use of music that is not popular with the targeted audience has been used for years in Crime Prevention Through Environmental Design(CPTED) to displace problems at specific sites. I'm sure this is documented in various POP and DOJ studies.

I haven't heard of that, but I'll snoop around and see what I can find. If you have any links, I'd appreciate them. Thx!


As I watched all five seasons of The Wire over a two month period, I kept thinking that the cops should set up big speakers with polka music on the worst corners. ---Roll out the barrel.....

O that is totally evil! I love it :D!!!!

Ken White
04-20-2008, 02:49 AM
...Ken's about American Pie would be specific pieces (okay, I can definitely see Ride of the Valkyries, but American Pie?!).the chorus resonates if you substitute 'you' for 'I.'


So bye-bye, miss american pie.
Drove my chevy to the levee,
But the levee was dry.
And them good old boys were drinkin� whiskey and rye
Singin�, "this�ll be the day that I die.
"this�ll be the day that I die."

As an aside, Ride of the Valkyries worked in a movie, it would not in reality for the troops -- though the two sons who are Cops have been known to play it or the theme from Jaws, whichever is most appropriate, on the PA speakers of their Cruisers as they answer calls.

marct
04-20-2008, 02:58 AM
the chorus resonates if you substitute 'you' for 'I.'

LOLOL - okay, I can see that :D! Some of the other lyrics probably fit with general perceptions as well

Helter skelter in a summer swelter.
The birds flew off with a fallout shelter,
Eight miles high and falling fast.and

Now the half-time air was sweet perfume
While the sergeants played a marching tune.
We all got up to dance,
Oh, but we never got the chance!
`cause the players tried to take the field;
The marching band refused to yield.
Do you recall what was revealed
The day the music died? I've got to ask - does an M-60 keep the rhythm during the song?

Surferbeetle
04-20-2008, 03:03 AM
Drowning Pool's (http://www.drowningpool.com/) song 'Bodies' can pretty much say it all at times...Tool's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tool_(band)) song Jambi is a pretty good jam as well...

Usually however, I tried to listen to some songs to help smooth things out when I got back to the hooch...

selil
04-20-2008, 03:15 AM
I just finished a paper that looked at technology, music, and protest. Social networks and mining play lists was part of the lit review. I think they are likely related.. Some resources.

Malcolm, S., & William, W. (2006). Measuring playlist diversity for recommendation systems. Paper presented at the Proceedings of the 1st ACM workshop on Audio and music computing multimedia.

Cheng, Y. (2003). Peer-to-peer architecture for content-based music retrieval on acoustic data. Paper presented at the Proceedings of the 12th international conference on World Wide Web, Budapest, Hungary.

Ahn, Y.-Y., Han, S., Kwak, H., Moon, S., & Jeong, H. (2007). Analysis of topological characteristics of huge online social networking services. Paper presented at the The 16th international conference on World Wide Web, Banff, Alberta, Canada.

Bockstedt, J. C., Kauffman, R. J., & Riggins, F. J. (2006). The Move to Artist-Led On-Line Music Distribution: A Theory-Based Assessment and Prospects for Structural Changes in the Digital Music Market. International Journal of Electronic Commerce, 10(3), 7-38.

marct
04-20-2008, 03:16 AM
Hi SB,


Drowning Pool's (http://www.drowningpool.com/) song 'Bodies' can pretty much say it all at times...Tool's song Jambi is a pretty good jam as well...

Okay, I just listened to Bodies (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nD7GhxYzFLo)on YouTube - definitely not Bach :wry:! What about it says it all?


Usually however, I tried to listen to some songs to help smooth things out when I got back to the hooch...

So what do you listen to when you get back?

marct
04-20-2008, 03:19 AM
I just finished a paper that looked at technology, music, and protest. Social networks and mining play lists was part of the lit review. I think they are likely related.. Some resources.

Thanks, Sam, much appreciated. I'll see if I can track them down. If you have URLs for them, 'twould be appreciated.

Ken White
04-20-2008, 03:32 AM
...I've got to ask - does an M-60 keep the rhythm during the song?so does an M 134 Minigun fired in bursts. ;)

marct
04-20-2008, 03:38 AM
so does an M 134 Minigun fired in bursts. ;)

I can see the video now :D! To bad YouTube wasn't around...

Surferbeetle
04-20-2008, 03:38 AM
Hi SB,

Okay, I just listened to Bodies (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nD7GhxYzFLo)on YouTube - definitely not Bach :wry:! What about it says it all?

So what do you listen to when you get back?

Marc,

Music is an interesting method of human expression. I participated in music programs in elementary, jr. high, and high school. Coming through rotc we were often inundated with country songs while eating. In central america, well away from the cities I have stumbled across disco's that make the jungle shake. As i mentioned previously iraq has an interesting fusion of (for want of better description) classical mideastern melodies and pop although I enjoyed the call to prayer as well. Commercial german music was for the longest time pretty bad, italian, and spanish on the other was quite good. In short I am all over the board when it comes to music; mozart, coldplay, country, world, and of course rock. Like most it just depends upon my mood and geographical location.

Are you working on a paper referencing music? The US music industry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_industry) shift from cd to mp3/4 (I started out with transistors and 45's) has been fairly dramatic. A reflection of the Nomad (http://www.economist.com/specialreports/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10950394) lifestyle?


Urban nomads have started appearing only in the past few years. Like their antecedents in the desert, they are defined not by what they carry but by what they leave behind, knowing that the environment will provide it. Thus, Bedouins do not carry their own water, because they know where the oases are. Modern nomads carry almost no paper because they access their documents on their laptop computers, mobile phones or online. Increasingly, they don't even bring laptops. Many engineers at Google, the leading internet company and a magnet for nomads, travel with only a BlackBerry, iPhone or other “smart phone”. If ever the need arises for a large keyboard and some earnest typing, they sit down in front of the nearest available computer anywhere in the world, open its web browser and access all their documents online.

Steve

marct
04-20-2008, 04:00 AM
Hi Steve,


Music is an interesting method of human expression. I participated in music programs in elementary, jr. high, and high school.

Pretty much the same for me, although I started doing semi-pro classical singing when I was 9 (hey, weddings paid much better than paper routes :eek:!).


Coming through rotc we were often inundated with country songs while eating. In central america, well away from the cities I have stumbled across disco's that make the jungle shake. As i mentioned previously iraq has an interesting fusion of (for want of better description) classical mideastern melodies and pop although I enjoyed the call to prayer as well. Commercial german music was for the longest time pretty bad, italian, and spanish on the other was quite good. In short I am all over the board when it comes to music; mozart, coldplay, country, world, and of course rock. Like most it just depends upon my mood and geographical location.

Sounds like you've definitely heard a lot ;). That fusion in Iraq sounds interesting - pop and classical ME? Are we talking about the quarter tone scale ME stuff? I'm definitely going to have to try and track some of that down!


Are you working on a paper referencing music? I have noted that the US music industry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_industry) has shifted from cd to mpeg (I started out with transistors and 45's). A reflection of the Nomad (http://www.economist.com/specialreports/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10950394) lifestyle?

It's still in the thought / concept stage. I'm putting the last touches on a paper tying singing Bach and taking a pilgrimage to the Thomaskirche in Leipzig looking at the interplay of performance, place, emotion and ritual (I've sung there twice now and we've been invited back for next year - it's a mind blowing experience!).

The Nomad lifestyle is an interesting one and, when it's combined with pervasive networks, it can produce some really interesting forms of music. Last month, I reviewed a book called Cybersounds for RCCS (http://rccs.usfca.edu/bookinfo.asp?BookID=361&ReviewID=461) that looked at a lot of the changes happening in the music scene. One of the things that I thought, but didn't toss in the review, was that there is a real difference between a live performance, a recorded performance that is used as "background mood music" and a recording that is, for want of a better term, used as "mood shifting" music (I don't like that term, but I haven't come across a better one - suggestions welcome ;)!).

I think there's a major difference, at the neurological and emotional levels, if we "sing" (perform even if it's in the car or shower) vs. just "listening". I think I need to take a trip up to Montreal and see if I can buy Dan Levitin (http://www.yourbrainonmusic.com/) a couple of beers and pick his brains :wry:.

Surferbeetle
04-20-2008, 04:23 AM
These folks (http://www.radiosawa.com/english.aspx) would cover some of the music we heard in town. They do not appear to have playlists (in english anayway) at this time...

Wikipedia's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Sawa) entry

selil
04-20-2008, 04:42 AM
Thanks, Sam, much appreciated. I'll see if I can track them down. If you have URLs for them, 'twould be appreciated.

Email enroute.

selil
04-20-2008, 04:58 AM
Are you working on a paper referencing music? The US music industry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_industry) shift from cd to mp3/4 (I started out with transistors and 45's) has been fairly dramatic. A reflection of the Nomad (http://www.economist.com/specialreports/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10950394) lifestyle?


Caveat, I am a TECHNOLOGIST playing at sociology.

The paper I just finished made a good case for linking the technology shifts in playback equipment, venues, and instruments to audience volumes. What people listen to and share creates a commonality of experience. There is a certain level of indoctrination that occurs when music becomes a center point to a common experience. The actual message can be important, but the context is more important. Music indicative of protest has specific themes (especially folk music), but non-protest music can be just as important to the shared experience.

Spud
04-20-2008, 06:31 AM
Music is one of the absolutes for any deployment (for me anyway) music is the opportunity to create a bit of personal space. All of my trips have a soundtrack of sorts that if I hear the song now it immediately makes me think of that trip or an aspect of it. It's also interesting that the introduction of MP3 players vs tapes and CD's means that on recent trips itís far more eclectic and personal. The opportunity to throw in some headphones and zone out vs listening as a group is getting to be more important as I get older.

Timor in '99 was Santana's Supernatural (it was the only bloody CD we had for about 3 months).
Iraq '04 was a bit of a mix ... some Aussie rock, Green Day's American Idiot, Spiderbaits Greatest Hits and Boxcar Racer's self-titled album. It remains dominated by the music on AQ propaganda clips though as I spent far too much time going over those bloody things.
Iraq '05 funnily enough is summed up in one song .. Timo Mass' First Day. It was on high rotation on the UK version of Armed Forces Radio during a job we were doing ... I even bought the album when I got back.
AFG '06 ... I must be getting old ... Sitting out in the sun on a Sunday morning with a couple of smokes, a cold can of Pepsi giving my gat a thorough going over listening to Sarah Brightman (opera). That and whatever the Shakira song is that has the film clip where she pours sump oil all over herself ... I didn't go a to a single CJSOTF brief that didn't start with that clip with the boys all singing along in Spanish.

The team at the POTF had a range of stuff they'd throw on the loudspeakers when we tasked them ... most of it was Arabic/Pasthu/Dari but when they got the ####s with it it usually reverted to AC/DC (thunderstruck and Highway to Hell were always nearby), Drowning Pool (as highlighted above) and one of the speaker monkeys seemed to always find a copy of Outkast's Bombs over Baghdad (this was usually quickly shut down by one of his SGTs who preferred C&W)

Australian Artist (if you can call him that) George Gittoes did a program that is now available on DVD that supposedly covered the soundtrack to the war in Iraq ... most of it is young US kids rapping so not really my style but may interest you.

http://shop.abc.net.au/browse/product.asp?productid=730844

Surferbeetle
04-20-2008, 09:46 AM
Music is one of the absolutes for any deployment (for me anyway) music is the opportunity to create a bit of personal space. ... Sitting out in the sun on a Sunday morning with a couple of smokes, a cold can of Pepsi giving my gat a thorough going over listening to...

A simple and true pleasure when one is downrange...snarfing the local 'tika day judge' with tomatoes on the side would do much for my morale as well ;)

Xenophon
04-20-2008, 06:31 PM
Before an op: Metal. The harder the better. Gets the blood flowing. Slipknot, Metallica, Megadeth, Pantera, Drowning Pool, etc. Personal fav: Metallica's "The Four Horseman"

After an op: country

Rank amateur
04-20-2008, 08:41 PM
What I am really interested in is the almost circular feedback loop between a state of consciousness and a genre of music or specific piece.

Have you looked at national anthems? Have you looked at other forms of "battle" i.e. a pregame football locker room? Or are you focusing on where and when people use metal to create this effect?

marct
04-20-2008, 09:36 PM
Hi RA,


Have you looked at national anthems? Have you looked at other forms of "battle" i.e. a pregame football locker room? Or are you focusing on where and when people use metal to create this effect?

I'm focusing on perception effects creation - metal sprang to mind from some things a few people had said, but it certainly looks like many other genres are being used. Xenophon's before an op = metal after an op = country is an example of that.

I'd rather restrict it to in theatre use, but that's not an absolute :). I do want to stay away from the pre-programmed response type, which would include national anthems (BTW, have you noticed how almost all of them are un-singable?).

On a related point, I haven't found any popular music that could be called "war music", at least in the same sense as WW I and WW II. To me, that points towards a disconnect.

Ranger94
04-20-2008, 10:22 PM
I remember during OIF III, before we went out on a mission, during prep of gear, for some reason, alot of guys would sing to themselves "Ring of Fire" by Johnny Cash. The movie was coming out on DVD and alot of guys were Cash fans. I really believe that it was more the quiet, tough guy persona rather than the association of the words to the possible consequences of conducting the mission.

Bodhi
04-20-2008, 10:43 PM
Before an op: Metal. The harder the better. Gets the blood flowing. Slipknot, Metallica, Megadeth, Pantera, Drowning Pool, etc. Personal fav: Metallica's "The Four Horseman"

After an op: country
Xenophon, absolutely on target with the before op music selections. However, my before op and after op selections were identical--country makes me break out in hives. :) Tough to ever beat Metallica, Black Label Society, Megadeth, Pantera, Godsmack, Disturbed, Alice in Chains, GNR, Sabbath, Ozzy, and other guitar-fueled music...but that's just one man's opinion...
Semper Fidelis,

Steve Blair
04-21-2008, 01:07 PM
Metal tends to run as a constant pump-up music in both combat and sports. I use it for writing myself, which isn't quite what Marc's asking about....:o

I think there's mention of music in many of the books written about Gulf War II. Pretty sure it comes up on more than one occasion in Generation Kill, for one.

marct
04-21-2008, 03:06 PM
Metal tends to run as a constant pump-up music in both combat and sports. I use it for writing myself, which isn't quite what Marc's asking about....:o

Actually, it is - sort of ;). There's been a lot of work done on how controlling rhythm can manipulate states of consciousness, mainly by changing heart rate and, sometimes, blood pressure. There's been much less work done on how keys and chord structures manipulate perceptions - most of it observational and/or pre/descriptive rather than something solid like MRIs.

You use Metal for writing? Hunh! I use stuff like Charpentier's Messe pour Quatre Choeurs and Handle's Dixit Domine (actually, the conquesabit section is sort of like Baroque metal now that I think about it; all that chopping off heads...).

Steve Blair
04-21-2008, 03:20 PM
Actually, it is - sort of ;). There's been a lot of work done on how controlling rhythm can manipulate states of consciousness, mainly by changing heart rate and, sometimes, blood pressure. There's been much less work done on how keys and chord structures manipulate perceptions - most of it observational and/or pre/descriptive rather than something solid like MRIs.

You use Metal for writing? Hunh! I use stuff like Charpentier's Messe pour Quatre Choeurs and Handle's Dixit Domine (actually, the conquesabit section is sort of like Baroque metal now that I think about it; all that chopping off heads...).

Actually I will use a mix. Iron Maiden tends to get my thoughts flowing, but I also use Stan Getz, Parker, and classical on occasion. But Maiden's always a trend-starter for me. Also been known to use the Eagles from time to time... but now I'm just hijacking the thread....:o

Vic Bout
04-21-2008, 03:21 PM
on all three trips...pre-op was loud, hard and chaotic...Disturbed, Dope, Metallica... (and me at 50, listening to angry white-boy music...shaking head and tsk-tsking). I really believe the guys liked it because they viewed it as the sound track for the movie about us...and we had all grown up believing we were stars in our own movies, hadn't we?
"They make movies about guys like us." was a favorite saying amongst the team, especially in flight, pre-assault...

And generally afterwards, when we were scribbling OPSUMs and detention packets (and shamelessly breaking GO#1) we listen to some crazy irish (Drop Kick Murpheys; Shipping Out to Boston..."and I lost my legs!") and wonder at the irony of it

marct
04-21-2008, 03:29 PM
Hi Vic,


on all three trips...pre-op was loud, hard and chaotic...Disturbed, Dope, Metallica... (and me at 50, listening to angry white-boy music...shaking head and tsk-tsking). I really believe the guys liked it because they viewed it as the sound track for the movie about us...and we had all grown up believing we were stars in our own movies, hadn't we?
"They make movies about guys like us." was a favorite saying amongst the team, especially in flight, pre-assault...

Really? A movie soundtrack? Now that is interesting! Did they mention any particular movies (or video games)? I'm wondering because of what Ranger94 said about Ring of Fire and the Johnny Cash DVD...


And generally afterwards, when we were scribbling OPSUMs and detention packets (and shamelessly breaking GO#1) we listen to some crazy irish (Drop Kick Murpheys; Shipping Out to Boston..."and I lost my legs!") and wonder at the irony of it

I'm getting the feeling that irony plays a major part in a lot of this :eek::D.

Marc

Steve Blair
04-21-2008, 03:38 PM
Hi Vic,
Really? A movie soundtrack? Now that is interesting! Did they mention any particular movies (or video games)? I'm wondering because of what Ranger94 said about Ring of Fire and the Johnny Cash DVD...
Marc

I think that theme comes up in "Generation Kill" as well...the whole soundtrack thing, I mean.

Uboat509
04-21-2008, 04:31 PM
After an op: country

Each to his own I guess. There's just something I find unappealing about listening to music that makes me dispeptic and possibly suicidal, particularly after an operation.

Personally, myself and few others also listened electronic (techno to the uninitiated heathens) pre-op. I didn't often get much chance to listen to music post-op, too much to do. It tends to have similar physiological effects to metal. Punk also has that effect but also tends to have leftist ideologies all through it which isn't neccessarily condusive to preparing for war.

SFC W

marct
04-21-2008, 04:36 PM
Hi Uboat


Personally, myself and few others also listened electronic (techno to the uninitiated heathens) pre-op. I didn't often get much chance to listen to music post-op, too much to do. It tends to have similar physiological effects to metal. Punk also has that effect but also tends to have leftist ideologies all through it which isn't neccessarily condusive to preparing for war.

How important are the lyrics for you? I mean, I know I focus on lyrics because I'm a singer (which is one of the reasons I have problems with early metal - damn hard to hear the lyrics!).

Uboat509
04-21-2008, 04:41 PM
I keep picturing Ken humming the latest hits by the Andrews Sisters and Vera Lynn as he prepared for war. :D

SFC W

marct
04-21-2008, 04:44 PM
I keep picturing Ken humming the latest hits by the Andrews Sisters and Vera Lynn as he prepared for war. :D

You mean you didn't know :eek::D? Ken is famous (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wiVkdVPGoY)!

Stan
04-21-2008, 05:02 PM
You mean you didn't know :eek:? Ken is famous (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wiVkdVPGoY)!

Say, you didn't tell us Ken could dance :eek: I mean I understand where he learned to bust a good tune on the bugle...Corporal Randolph Agarn at F Troop (http://www.f-troop.net/larrys_page.htm) :D

And to think I thought he was "On Top of the World"... Carpenters (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=mq5pLi0huhw)that is :)

Ken White
04-21-2008, 05:10 PM
Say, you didn't tell us Ken could dance :eek: I mean I understand where he learned to bust a good tune on the bugle...Corporal Randolph Agarn at F Troop (http://www.f-troop.net/larrys_page.htm) :DGlad to see you cite the most accurate TV show ever about the Army....;)
And to think I thought he was "On Top of the World"... Carpenters (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=mq5pLi0huhw)that is :)I was -- and am. Mortals beware...

marct
04-21-2008, 05:17 PM
And to think I thought he was "On Top of the World"... Carpenters (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=mq5pLi0huhw)that is :)
I was -- and am. Mortals beware...

I notice that you are too modest to mention that you were the technical adviser on this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHhZF66C1Dc)...

Ken White
04-21-2008, 05:27 PM
I notice that you are too modest to mention that you were the technical adviser on this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHhZF66C1Dc)..."Be Prepared" :D

Stan
04-21-2008, 05:33 PM
I've got to ask - does an M-60 keep the rhythm during the song?

Good question, and interestingly enough, there's a song reminiscent of gunfire (sorry, they weren't weapon specific in the early 70s).

Machine Gun (Commodores album) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_Gun_%28Commodores_album%29)


The lead song features Milan Williams on clavinet, which led Motown executive Berry Gordy to the song "Machine Gun" as the clavinet work reminded him of gunfire.

marct
04-21-2008, 05:42 PM
Good question, and interestingly enough, there's a song reminiscent of gunfire (sorry, they weren't weapon specific in the early 70s).

Machine Gun (Commodores album) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_Gun_%28Commodores_album%29)

Interesting. The 70's and 80's seems somehat devoid of particular songs, except for a few classics that didn't get much mainstream play (I'm sutre and Tom remember this one (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=UvTv-I2Y390&feature=related)!).

Stan
04-21-2008, 05:59 PM
Interesting. The 70's and 80's seems somehat devoid of particular songs, except for a few classics that didn't get much mainstream play (I'm sutre and Tom remember this one (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=UvTv-I2Y390&feature=related)!).

Fantastic blast from the past, Marc ! I listened to that several times at the Belgian military attache's house (despite the fact he had never seen a real Thompson (Zaire was mysteriously equipped with M3 greaseguns :cool:).

BTW, Tom was our team's Warren Zevon fanatic :D

I'll assume you recall this famous song as well:

Machine Gun (Jimi Hendrix song) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_Gun_(Jimi_Hendrix_song)) which debuted in 69 as a protest song to the Vietnam War


Machine gun
Tearin' my body all apart
Evil man make me kill you
Evil man make you kill me
Even though we're only families apart.
Well, I pick up my axe and fight like a farmer,
You know what I mean?
Hey, and your bullets keep knockin' me down..."

Hence the Geneva convention against using .50 cal on humans (forget that one).

marct
04-21-2008, 06:14 PM
Fantastic blast from the past, Marc ! I listened to that several times at the Belgian military attache's house (despite the fact he had never seen a real Thompson (Zaire was mysteriously equipped with M3 greaseguns :cool:).

BTW, Tom was our team's Warren Zevon fanatic :D

I can believe that -it's so "in character" :D!


I'll assume you recall this famous song as well:

Machine Gun (Jimi Hendrix song) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_Gun_%28Jimi_Hendrix_song%29) which debuted in 69 as a protest song to the Vietnam War

Yup. Growing up in the '60's in Toronto (with a radical feminist for a mother) exposed me to a lot of the anti-war songs. By the time I was 12, I had Hair memorized :eek:.

One thing that has been floating around in my back brain is that therejust don't seem to be any major civilian songs about the current wars either pro or con. Okay, a few Dixie Chicks ones, but nothing like the 60's anti-war songs or the WW II songs (hey, unlike Ken, I do like Vera Lynn (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=cHcunREYzNY)). I find that somehat indicative of a social disconnect, but I'm not sure what to make of it.

Stan
04-21-2008, 06:31 PM
I can believe that -it's so "in character" :D!

Hmmm, don't tell Tom just yet !



Yup. Growing up in the '60's in Toronto (with a radical feminist for a mother) exposed me to a lot of the anti-war songs. By the time I was 12, I had Hair memorized :eek:.

I spent a few years in NE D.C. as a kid in the 60s.... only seems fair :D



One thing that has been floating around in my back brain is that therejust don't seem to be any major civilian songs about the current wars either pro or con. Okay, a few Dixie Chicks ones, but nothing like the 60's anti-war songs or the WW II songs (hey, unlike Ken, I do like Vera Lynn (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=cHcunREYzNY)). I find that somehat indicative of a social disconnect, but I'm not sure what to make of it.

There's a few sites like this one Updates Anti-War Songs (http://www.lacarte.org/songs/anti-war/updates.html) (ahem) Most Recent Major New Material. By no means hitting the Top 40's (whatsoever). Seems our Actors however are spending far too much time 'acting' and taking advantage of the current situation.

Top 10 Anti-War Movies (http://worldfilm.about.com/od/toppicks/tp/antiwar.htm)

I guess -- by default -- the song writer could be considered a war monger or protester :rolleyes:

Rank amateur
04-21-2008, 06:39 PM
Jimi is always worth a look. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=9UFDP_EajmI) He looks high as a kite, but he doesn't look like he'd be dead in three weeks.

Marc, don't forget Green Day. Here's a potential cause for the difference: no draft.

marct
04-21-2008, 06:43 PM
There's a few sites like this one Updates Anti-War Songs (http://www.lacarte.org/songs/anti-war/updates.html) (ahem) Most Recent Major New Material. By no means hitting the Top 40's (whatsoever).

Hardly the power house that was running around in the '60's :wry:!


Seems our Actors however are spending far too much time 'acting' and taking advantage of the current situation.

Top 10 Anti-War Movies (http://worldfilm.about.com/od/toppicks/tp/antiwar.htm)

I guess -- by default -- the song writer could be considered a war monger or protester :rolleyes:

Well, folk songs especially have always played a pretty heavy role in that (despite Lehrer's jabs at them (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=yygMhtNQJ9M) :D). But even if we go back to Gulf War I, there was still a some songs that were heavily associated with the war in the civilian world that became icons (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7NCZ4l8FCFc), and we don't see that with these wars which makes me wonder.

wm
04-21-2008, 06:48 PM
Interesting. The 70's and 80's seems somehat devoid of particular songs, except for a few classics that didn't get much mainstream play (I'm sutre and Tom remember this one (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=UvTv-I2Y390&feature=related)!).

MarcT,
I think your point here needs a lot of support. I could probably list many metal hits from the 70's and early 80's--let's just start with Machine Gun, Hendrix, '70; Iron Man, Black Sabbath, '71 Smoke on the Water, Deep Purple '72, Edgar Winter, Frankenstein, 1973; Golden Earring, Radar Love (not head-banging metal I admit), '74;Walk this Way, Aerosmith, '75(another iffy metal call, but metal in the 70's was not the same as metal in the 90's or the new millenium).

I was OCONUS 77-80 and forced to listen mostly to what AFRTS jammed into my ears or AAFES had in the PX as music so I am a little short off the top of my head for cutting edge metal for that time period.

tequila
04-21-2008, 06:53 PM
The music industry, like the media itself, is corporatized to a far greater extent than during the 1960s. At the same time it is also contracting with the advent of new distribution technologies and thus far more timid and risk-averse, without any particularly large influx of new content providers as in other new media.

Also society today is not undergoing anything like the social convulsions that wracked it back then, when the upheaval was generational and involved a variety of social change movements. The advent of feminism and the civil rights movement, either of which alone would count as a major social trend, were both ongoing at the time. The draft, as RA pointed out, also involved a far larger segment of the American youth population than the current war, which as has been tirelessly stated on this site and others involves a voluntary few compared to the conscripted many.

American popular society as a whole is disengaged from the ongoing wars. The music and film industries are no different.

marct
04-21-2008, 06:53 PM
Hi RA,


Marc, don't forget Green Day. Here's a potential cause for the difference: no draft.

Could be... I've been wracking my brain to try and list out some of the social differences and, in the US, the draft/no-draft is probably one, although that wouldn't effect Canada. What does strike me, however, is the political differences in the popular theorlogy. In the 1960's the popular theorlogy was Liberation Theology which gave a major moral boost to the anti-war movement, but today, the popular theology tends to be a variant of evangelical or charismatic Christianity which, as a political grouping, tends to be pro-war.

marct
04-21-2008, 07:05 PM
Hi WM,


I think your point here needs a lot of support. I could probably list many metal hits from the 70's and early 80's--let's just start with Machine Gun, Hendrix, '70; Iron Man, Black Sabbath, '71 Smoke on the Water, Deep Purple '72, Edgar Winter, Frankenstein, 1973; Golden Earring, Radar Love (not head-banging metal I admit), '74;Walk this Way, Aerosmith, '75(another iffy metal call, but metal in the 70's was not the same as metal in the 90's or the new millenium).

Sorry, I should have made that comment clearer - it was meant in the context of popular pro/anti-war songs. I'll certainly grant you Hendrix and Black Sabbath, although I'd query Smoke on the Water. Definitely agree with you on the differences in metal - I may not listen to it, but one of my students is a freakin' expert and I have to read his papers (and he plays it for me too, especially Burzum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burzum)).

wierdbeard
04-21-2008, 07:14 PM
As a big time audio-phile i was the goto guy for music in theatre, I had two major playlists for everyone, one was lots of heavy industrial, punk, and metal most guys would listen to that prior to heading out and the other was chillout electronica and trance that most listened to when they came back to settle the nerves a bit. I usually ran an Ipod through a FM transmitter to listen to stuff in my NTV, and did have a few very intense short playlists that we utilized during pre-dawn raids, played extremely loud through the PSYOPS guys speakers on their gun truck. If your interested i can email you these playlists.

marct
04-21-2008, 07:17 PM
Definitely! PM sent!

Stan
04-21-2008, 07:31 PM
If your interested i can email you these playlists.

Please email me too !

I recall my days along the MDL attempting to sleep as the North Korean loudspeakers blared their propaganda at all hours. Not one hint of music (unless you just got into that whining sound).

I reckon folks subjected to our PSYOPS had/have the same opinion, or, like most of us in Korea, it later merely lulled you into a deep sleep and literally became a routine.

Secret living in the Shadows (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0IBQ/is_/ai_68646770) - serving at the North Korea border - Brief Article

Vic Bout
04-21-2008, 07:34 PM
me too, if you please.

selil
04-21-2008, 08:52 PM
Some huge differences between today and the early to mid 1960s where protest became inflamed across the United States is the baby-boomer bump, is today the millennial slump. The culture of the beatniks was appropriated in many ways by the boomers and became protest movements centered around desegregation, civil rights, anti-war, the draft, corporatism, environment, and drug culture. As the boomers dropped out in the 70s they had way less kids, and the culture of protest became wars on poverty, crime, terrorism. Not all the boomers gave in, gave up, or quit. The huge numbers though did and left shells of organizations that have no where near the power of persuasion.

Spud
04-21-2008, 10:17 PM
we don't see that with these wars which makes me wonder.


maybe its just the complete lack of intyerest from most of the population.

There seems to be more "anti-war" (probably better described as anti-Bush) songs coming out. This recent one from Linkin Park is a good starter and has resonated very well with guys heading back on their second or third tour (or even fourth or fifth)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=573ffZPcm88 (with lyrics)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwAGc4aM5q0&feature=related (with film clip)

Green Day has a good shot at a recruiting program that offers a better start for young families with a mix of patriotism and machoness and then send them to Iraq for 12-15 months.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLjhRtn9j4A

Of course they aslo got in the act with U2 after Katrina and asked why the military was in Iraq when it should have been assiting in NO with "the Saints are coming"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seGhTWE98DU

System of a down asks who is actually doing the fighting with B.Y.O.B

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJ5Tp97UgyQ

a bit different but the IO/PSYOP guy in me loves the words of Faithless' Weapons of Mass destruction

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-MfC7pw1AM&feature=related

Steve Blair
04-22-2008, 12:57 PM
Some huge differences between today and the early to mid 1960s where protest became inflamed across the United States is the baby-boomer bump, is today the millennial slump. The culture of the beatniks was appropriated in many ways by the boomers and became protest movements centered around desegregation, civil rights, anti-war, the draft, corporatism, environment, and drug culture. As the boomers dropped out in the 70s they had way less kids, and the culture of protest became wars on poverty, crime, terrorism. Not all the boomers gave in, gave up, or quit. The huge numbers though did and left shells of organizations that have no where near the power of persuasion.

I wonder how much the "perpetual, commercialized revolution/statement" has to do with it as well. By that I mean the "look at me...I've got tats and studs in my lip...I'm protesting society" thing that has become so commonplace that it often has no real meaning.

Both the beats and the hippie-type movements stood out because they were considered so far from mainstream. Now that we have MTV, the various ESPNs, Goth clubs, tat sleeves, and other assorted commercial expressions of rebellion, the actual passion may have faded into the background. Blending in with a group and mastering that quizzical facial expression that seems to represent concern, disgust, or simply smelling a bad odor seems to be more important.;)

marct
04-22-2008, 02:02 PM
Hi Spud,


maybe its just the complete lack of intyerest from most of the population.

There seems to be more "anti-war" (probably better described as anti-Bush) songs coming out.

Thanks for these. I think you're correct in saying it's not so much anti-war as anti-Bush. All of them seem to have an ironic twist to them that seems to be repeating some major themes - (anti-)globalization, the "poor" being sent to fight, manipulation by the elites, and an almost "doomed" pride.


This recent one from Linkin Park is a good starter and has resonated very well with guys heading back on their second or third tour (or even fourth or fifth)

I've listened to this one twice now and if it is resonating "with guys heading back on their second or third tour (or even fourth or fifth)" that tells me a lot :wry:.


Green Day has a good shot at a recruiting program that offers a better start for young families with a mix of patriotism and machoness and then send them to Iraq for 12-15 months.

That is a brilliant song - in the sense of using music and emotions to ask questions.


a bit different but the IO/PSYOP guy in me loves the words of Faithless' Weapons of Mass destruction

I can see why! "Fear is a weapon of mass destruction"; yeah...

There's an interesting difference I'm starting to pick up on which is that, unlike the anti-war songs of the 60's, these songs are not attacking the soldiers but, rather, the "system" (actually the social structures of the inter-social system).

marct
04-22-2008, 02:17 PM
Hi Steve,


I wonder how much the "perpetual, commercialized revolution/statement" has to do with it as well. By that I mean the "look at me...I've got tats and studs in my lip...I'm protesting society" thing that has become so commonplace that it often has no real meaning.

Listening (and watching) the songs Spud just posted makes me wonder about that. Let me go off on a bit of a tangent for a minute to contextualize where my thinking is....

The late 60's-early '70's saw the death of he post-War compromise in employment practices, and the final nails were driven into the coffin of that type of social organization by the mid-80's at least in Canada). As a general rule, employment, including hiring practices, job search strategies, etc, moved out of an Authority Ranking (AR) system and into an Equality Matching (EM; aka reciprocity) system. You get jobs, or employees, mainly via personal networks even if the formal system is AR.

This trend away from AR and towards EM as dominant forms of social relationships has been accelerated by the development of fragmented, contingent communities brought together via various 'net based apps, and really pushed since the deployment of Net 2.0 and 2.5 technologies. Each of these contingent communities, while smaller that more "traditional" AR communities, is more specialized and much more flexible and adaptive (SWC is a good example of this type of community). Put simply, an individual can access better resources faster though them than through AR communities which means that individuals come to "trust" them more than AR communities.

In some ways, you're absolutely right that small counter-culture communities have been institutionalized and commercialized, but that very institutionalization and commercialization has served to reduce overall trust (and interest) in the larger AR communities (such as governments). When everyone "knows" (by personal experience) how strong personal networks and contingent communities are, they will start loking at the AR communities, like governments, and asking "who benefits? and "who pays?". Those are the types of tings I was seeing in the songs Spud posted.

Of course, I could be totally out to lunch on this :wry:, but it does seem to make sense.

Marc

wm
04-22-2008, 03:14 PM
When everyone "knows" (by personal experience) how strong personal networks and contingent communities are, they will start loking at the AR communities, like governments, and asking "who benefits? and "who pays?".

Leonard Cohen's "Everybody Knows" lyrics seem apropos here. (I'm partial to the 1990 version by Concrete Blonde from "Pump up the Volume.")

Everybody knows that the dice are loaded
Everybody rolls with their fingers crossed
Everybody knows that the war is over
Everybody knows that the good guys lost
Everybody knows the fight is fixed
The poor stay poor and the rich get rich
Thats how it goes
Everybody knows that the boat is sinking
Everybody knows that the captain lied
Everybodys got this broken feeling
Like their momma or there dog just died
Everybodys hands are in their pockets
Everybody wants a box of chocolates
And a long stem rose
Everybody knows

Everybody knows
Everybody knows
Thats how it goes
Everybody knows

Everybody knows that its now or never
Everybody knows that its me or you
Everybody knows that you live forever
When you had a line or two
Everybody knows the deal is rotten
Old black joe still pickin cotton
For ribbons and bows
Everybody knows you love me baby
Everybody knows that you really do
Everybody knows that you been faithful
Give or take a night or two
Everybody knows you been discrete
So many people you had to meet
Without your clothes
And everybody knows

wierdbeard
04-22-2008, 03:57 PM
This is for everyone that sent me PM's for the playlists, I'm working on it now to make it a bit easier to understand, i'll have it done in the next few days and send it out to everyone that is interested.

marct
04-22-2008, 03:59 PM
This is for everyone that sent me PM's for the playlists, I'm working on it now to make it a bit easier to understand, i'll have it done in the next few days and send it out to everyone that is interested.

Thanks Weirdbeard. Given the interest, I'm wondering if it mightn't be better to post it?

Marc

wierdbeard
04-22-2008, 04:07 PM
its quite large, i'll try and post a link to it.

Umar Al-Mokhtār
04-22-2008, 04:18 PM
The draft, as RA pointed out, also involved a far larger segment of the American youth population than the current war, which as has been tirelessly stated on this site and others involves a voluntary few compared to the conscripted many.

Add to that equation that the draft pool was also smaller then due to the differences in the general population level in the mid to late 60's as compared to now. Also the average US casualty rate is nothing like some of the bad months in Vietnam (14,000+ KIA in '68).

Spud
04-23-2008, 11:25 AM
Niki Barr has been on several USO tours of both theatres. She's just written track in support of the Marines she spent time with.

http://www.nikibarr.com/music/?id=9

Play track 1 - Undivided

Lyrics


Undivided
This is the point of no return
This is where you show what youíre worth
This is where we make their heads turn
This is where somebody gets hurt

This marks the place where you show no tears
Anticipating the end is near
This time youíre ok, the coast is clear
No, you can't ever show any fear because

We are the strong
You can't hold our backs to the wall

Undivided we stand
Undivided we fall
Undivided we stand
Undivided... or weíre nothing at all

This is where you get what you earn
So donít forget what you have learned
This is where reality turns
And this is how good men get burned

Holding the lines through the rain and fire
Shoulder to shoulder we'll never tire
We keep moving forward, a thousand miles
Cuz this is how we build an empire

We stand our ground
We watch them all fall down

sure beats listening to that bloody over-played Toby Keith piece of crap :D ... American Soldier. Anyone that tells you PSYOP loudspeaker ops have no effect just need to tune into AFR ... I'm betting this is still on high rotation even though it is permanently imprinted on everyone's mind.

BayonetBrant
07-30-2008, 07:26 PM
I know a bunch of people for whom "Voodoo Chile" by Jimi is required listening as they roll out, ever since the roll-out scene in BlackHawk Down.

If you want a good video of more contemporary music/action, check out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpVXE95rijI

For some hot tankin' action. :D

Rank amateur
07-31-2008, 02:08 AM
Can heavy metal music help transform the Middle East? (http://www.slate.com/id/2196194/)


Pink Floyd's album The Wall takes on a whole new meaning when brought to life by an Arab metal band in Lebanon. Imagine 100,000 teens—Sunni, Shiite, Christian, Druze—headbanging in sync, pumping their fists in unison, screaming, "Hey, teacher, leave those kids alone!" even as another civil war, waged by their parents, threatens to tear their country apart yet again.

Includes youtube videos.

Adam L
07-31-2008, 05:45 AM
I know a bunch of people for whom "Voodoo Chile" by Jimi is required listening as they roll out, ever since the roll-out scene in BlackHawk Down.

If you want a good video of more contemporary music/action, check out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpVXE95rijI

For some hot tankin' action. :D

Wasn't it Stevie Ray Vaughn's version of "Voodoo Chile" that was used in Black Hawk Down? :confused: I'm pretty sure it was his. Personally, I normally perfer Jimi's versions, but two big exceptions are Voodoo Chile" and "Little Wing."

Adam L

William F. Owen
07-31-2008, 05:56 AM
Can heavy metal music help transform the Middle East? (http://www.slate.com/id/2196194/)
.

Israel has a thriving music industry, and some of it from Arab Israelis. DAM being the best.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIo6lyP9tTE

Ha Dag Nacash, are a "Zionist" Hip Hop band - seen then live. Excellent!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeHO4lDxJ54

...and Terry Poison are some white girls, from Jerusalem
http://www.terrypoison.com/

Steve Blair
07-31-2008, 12:44 PM
Wasn't it Stevie Ray Vaughn's version of "Voodoo Chile" that was used in Black Hawk Down? :confused: I'm pretty sure it was his. Personally, I normally perfer Jimi's versions, but two big exceptions are Voodoo Chile" and "Little Wing."

Adam L

It was the SRV version of "Voodoo Chile (Slight Return)" that was used in BHD.

wm
07-31-2008, 02:19 PM
It was the SRV version of "Voodoo Chile (Slight Return)" that was used in BHD.


Sometimes I think Stevie Ray was channeling Hendrix, but then hearing Concrete Blonde's version of "Little Wing" makes me think that Jim Mankey was also channeling for Jimi. Derek and the Dominos does the best "Little Wing" version I think. I wonder why "House Burnin' Down" from the "Electric Ladyland" album hasn't made its way into a war movie soundtrack.

Steve Blair
07-31-2008, 02:22 PM
Sometimes I think Stevie Ray was channeling Hendrix, but then hearing Concrete Blonde's version of "Little Wing" makes me think that Jim Mankey was also channeling for Jimi. Derek and the Dominos does the best "Little Wing" version I think. I wonder why "House Burnin' Down" from the "Electric Ladyland" album hasn't made its way into a war movie soundtrack.

I'd guess that it's either because (a) studios figure the average audience wouldn't recognize the song or (b) they can't get rights clearance to use it.

Way back when I saw a review in (I think) Guitar Magazine of SRV's version of "Voodoo Chile (Slight Return)" that compared to a good live version of Hendrix's original, but not up to the feel of the studio version. An interesting observation, and one that I've come to agree with over the years.

Tom Odom
07-31-2008, 02:34 PM
Marc,

Favorite song to put on the CD player when running cam inspection patrols into Zaire from Rwanda was...


Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_the_Headless_Thompson_Gunner) by Warren Zevon

Lyrics (http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Roland-The-Headless-Thompson-Gunner-lyrics-Warren-Zevon/FC85ECBF97017DF748256C95000ACE0C)

Written By Warren Zevon & David Lindell c. 1976 Zevon Music/BMI

Roland was a warrior from the Land of the Midnight Sun
With a Thompson gun for hire, fighting to be done
The deal was made in Denmark on a dark and stormy day
So he set out for Biafra to join the bloody fray

Through sixty-six and seven they fought the Congo war
With their fingers on their triggers, knee-deep in gore
For days and nights they battled the Bantu to their knees
They killed to earn their living and to help out the Congolese

Roland the Thompson gunner...

His comrades fought beside him - Van Owen and the rest
But of all the Thompson gunners, Roland was the best
So the CIA decided they wanted Roland dead
That son-of-a-bitch Van Owen blew off Roland's head

Roland the headless Thompson gunner
Norway's bravest son
Time, time, time
For another peaceful war
But time stands still for Roland
'Til he evens up the score
They can still see his headless body stalking through the night
In the muzzle flash of Roland's Thompson gun
In the muzzle flash of Roland's Thompson gun

Roland searched the continent for the man who'd done him in
He found him in Mombassa in a barroom drinking gin
Roland aimed his Thompson gun - he didn't say a word
But he blew Van Owen's body from there to Johannesburg

Roland the headless Thompson gunner...
The eternal Thompson gunner
still wandering through the night
Now it's ten years later but he still keeps up the fight
In Ireland, in Lebanon, in Palestine and Berkeley
Patty Hearst heard the burst of Roland's Thompson gun and bought it

All passengers were required to sing along :wry:


Favorite music for patrols inside Rwanda


Red Rain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Rain_(song))by Peter Gabriel
Lyrics (http://www.lyrics007.com/Peter%20Gabriel%20Lyrics/Red%20Rain%20Lyrics.html)
red rain is coming down
red rain
red rain is pouring down
pouring down all over me

I am standing up at the water's edge in my dream
I cannot make a single sound as you scream
it can't be that cold, the ground is still warm to touch
this place is so quiet, sensing that storm

red rain is coming down
red rain
red rain is pouring down
pouring down all over me

well I've seen them buried in a sheltered place in this town
they tell you that this rain can sting, and look down
there is no blood around see no sign of pain
hay ay ay no pain
seeing no red at all, see no rain

red rain is coming down
red rain
red rain is pouring down
pouring down all over me

red rain-
putting the pressure on much harder now
to return again and again
just let the red rain splash you
let the rain fall on your skin
I come to you defences down
with the trust of a child

red rain is coming down
red rain
red rain is pouring down
pouring down all over me
and I can't watch any more
no more denial
it's so hard to lay down in all of this
red rain is coming down
red rain is pouring down
red rain is coming down all over me
I see it
red rain is coming down
red rain is pouring down
red rain is coming down all over me
I'm bathing in it
red rain coming down
red rain is coming down
red rain is coming down all over me
I'm begging you
red rain coming down
red rain coming down
red rain coming down
red rain coming down
over me in the red red sea
over me
over me
red rain

We didn't sing with that one.

Tom

BayonetBrant
07-31-2008, 03:44 PM
Wasn't it Stevie Ray Vaughn's version of "Voodoo Chile" that was used in Black Hawk Down? :confused: I'm pretty sure it was his. Personally, I normally perfer Jimi's versions, but two big exceptions are Voodoo Chile" and "Little Wing."


Could be... The guys I know are big Jimi fans, though.

I'm the heretic in the bunch, tho - I prefer Skid Row's version of Little Wing {ducks the inevitable flying cabbage}

marct
07-31-2008, 04:39 PM
Tom,

I always had a soft spot for Warren Zevon, and especially Roland - I got in trouble once by singing it in a church before a concert :D.

That Slate review, Rock the Mullahs (http://www.slate.com/id/2196194/pagenum/all/), is really good. I am going to have to get the book.

Marc

Tom Odom
07-31-2008, 05:22 PM
Tom,

I always had a soft spot for Warren Zevon, and especially Roland - I got in trouble once by singing it in a church before a concert :D.

That Slate review, Rock the Mullahs (http://www.slate.com/id/2196194/pagenum/all/), is really good. I am going to have to get the book.

Marc

In church? Good man!

Anyway music is soft power and it does influence. I love classic reggae. Cannot stand reggae rap. The first makes me happy. The second gives me a headache.

The Hutu extremists at RTLM had a panapoly of "hits" concerning killing Tutsis they played during the genocide.

My favorite Zevon song in my Lebanon days was "Lawyers, Guns, and Money." Sing that one in church :D

Tom

marct
07-31-2008, 05:50 PM
My favorite Zevon song in my Lebanon days was "Lawyers, Guns, and Money." Sing that one in church :D

That would probably get me in way too much trouble ;). These days, I tend to limit my extra-concert, church singing to things like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f72CTDe4-0) :D.

Marc

Adam L
08-01-2008, 04:14 PM
That would probably get me in way too much trouble ;). These days, I tend to limit my extra-concert, church singing to things like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f72CTDe4-0) :D.

Marc

Now that I think of Tom Lehrer I wonder if any of our bomber boys ever sang this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pklr0UD9eSo).

Adam L

Umar Al-Mokhtār
08-03-2008, 01:59 AM
although I'm surprised Tom that your fav Zevon tune while on the Dark Continent wasn't Jungle Work. :D

Lear jet S.W.A.T team
On a midnight run
With the M16
And the Ingram gun
We parachute in
We parachute out
"Death from above"
We're screaming now

Where the pay is good
And the risk is high
It's understood
We'll do or die
Sten gun in hand
Where the gun is law
From Ovamboland
To Nicaragua

Strength and muscle and jungle work

Three young men
In a Russian truck
With a little MAC-10
Sent 'em running to the huts
These few young men
The few who dare
To battle in hell
Le Mercenaire!

Strength and muscle and jungle work

I've always liked Gorilla, You're A Desperado.

As for Lehrer I've always been partial to his Send the Marines.

Tom Odom
08-03-2008, 01:16 PM
Thanks! I didn't know about that one

Still Roland has a special place for me as a Congo refugee


although I'm surprised Tom that your fav Zevon tune while on the Dark Continent wasn't Jungle Work. :D

Lear jet S.W.A.T team
On a midnight run
With the M16
And the Ingram gun
We parachute in
We parachute out
"Death from above"
We're screaming now

Where the pay is good
And the risk is high
It's understood
We'll do or die
Sten gun in hand
Where the gun is law
From Ovamboland
To Nicaragua

Strength and muscle and jungle work

Three young men
In a Russian truck
With a little MAC-10
Sent 'em running to the huts
These few young men
The few who dare
To battle in hell
Le Mercenaire!

Strength and muscle and jungle work

I've always liked Gorilla, You're A Desperado.

As for Lehrer I've always been partial to his Send the Marines.