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bourbon
06-11-2008, 05:32 PM
Mods Notice

This thread was created today from five separate threads and renamed. Given the significance of 'The Gatekeepers' documentary in 2013, I have copied most of the relevant posts - nineteen of them - to here.

This thread should be read alongside Watching the IDF (catch all) (http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/showthread.php?t=20224) in particular (ends).


The Spy Who Loves Us: Pay no mind to the Mossad agent on the line (http://amconmag.com/2008/2008_06_02/cover.html), by Philip Giraldi. The American Conservative, June 2, 2008.

Everything you want to know about Israeli espionage in The United States but were afraid to ask. Well not everything, but a very insightful if not controversial article by Phil Giraldi. This article is not by a mere journalist either, Giraldi served sixteen years in the DO.


Whether the movers and the art students had jointly pieced together enough information to provide a preview of 9/11 remains hidden in intelligence files in Tel Aviv, but the proximity of both groups to 15 of the hijackers in Hollywood, Florida and to five others in northern New Jersey is suggestive.

Speculation about 9/11 aside, it is certain that Urban Moving was involved in an intelligence-collection operation against Arabs living in the United States, possibly involving electronic surveillance of phone calls and other communications. When they were arrested, the five Israelis working for Urban Moving had multiple passports and nearly $5,000 in cash. They were held for 71 days, failed a number of polygraph exams, and were finally allowed to return to Israel after Tel Aviv admitted that they were Mossad and apologized.

Between 55 and 95 other Israelis were also arrested in the weeks following 9/11, and a number were reported to be active-duty military personnel. The FBI came under intense pressure from several congressmen and various pro-Israel groups to release the detainees. The order to free them came from Judge Michael Mukasey, now the U.S. attorney general. An FBI investigator noted, “Leads were not fully investigated” due to pressure from “higher echelons.” According to one source, the White House may have made the final decision to terminate the inquiry. Though the investigation could have gone much farther, the FBI identified two of the Weehawken movers as Israeli intelligence officers and confirmed that Urban Moving was a front for Mossad to “spy on local Arabs.” One CIA officer involved in the investigation concluded, “The Israelis likely had a huge spy operation.”The movers and art-students issues appears to be consigned to the dustbin of history by the powers that be. I suggest retired international lawyer Gerald Shea's memo (http://www.christopherketcham.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/Gerald%20Shea%20Memo%20to%20the%209-11%20Commission.pdf) (PDF) to the HPSCI and SSCI, which includes the DEA memo in the appendix, for those interested in the matter. As well as Christopher Ketcham's shorter article (http://www.christopherketcham.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/Final%20PDF%20of%20CounterPunch%20article%20re%20I sraelis%2001-29-07.pdf) (PDF) in Counterpunch.

Tom Odom
06-11-2008, 05:44 PM
Given the stakes involved, it would be reasonable for the United States to quietly offer Israel’s leaders a choice. They can continue to receive billions of dollars in aid, or they can persist in spying against their greatest benefactor. They should not be permitted to do both.

Agreed. But with both presidential candidates seemingly required to go before AIPAC as a validation exercise--AIPAC of course being involved in this espionage--I fear we will continue to pay cash for getting screwed.

Tom

William F. Owen
06-12-2008, 09:44 AM
I feel compelled to point out a few things that trickle down from all this stuff.

a.) There are 740,000 Israeli citizens outside of Israel in any given month. About 40% are in the US. Not all are spies. That's from a population of 6,000,000 plus.

b.) The allegation that "X is an Israeli and he/she probably works for Mossad" is a very commonly heard allegation, against almost all Israelis travelling/working abroad. My wife is continually accused of working for the Mossad, as are most of her friends and work colleagues, - and so am I. :mad:

c.) The clear implication here is that Israel should not conduct intelligence operations in the US, or against the US. Why so? The UK thinks it's OK to have SIS running around Gaza. I'm know the US has/does conduct Intelligence operations against Israel's national interest - as do a lot of NATO countries. Do we want to argue about who started it?

To place anything to do with Intelligence in the moral realm is obviously laughable, but for those who do, should we run tallies on how many Israelis have died / are dieing doing stuff for the US in places the US didn't want to go - or vice versa?

...and yes you have a legitimate right to be upset that Israel spies on the US, if you are American. If you have to ask "Why would Israel do this," then you clearly don't understand Israelis or Israel.

Ski
06-12-2008, 11:42 AM
Wilf

The Israeli lobby has more influence on the American political process than any other single organization in the US. We give Israel over $3B a year in aid.

There are some very hard feelings towards the Israelis by many people in the US.

Tom Odom
06-12-2008, 12:17 PM
I feel compelled to point out a few things that trickle down from all this stuff.

a.) There are 740,000 Israeli citizens outside of Israel in any given month. About 40% are in the US. Not all are spies. That's from a population of 6,000,000 plus.

b.) The allegation that "X is an Israeli and he/she probably works for Mossad" is a very commonly heard allegation, against almost all Israelis travelling/working abroad. My wife is continually accused of working for the Mossad, as are most of her friends and work colleagues, - and so am I. :mad:

c.) The clear implication here is that Israel should not conduct intelligence operations in the US, or against the US. Why so? The UK thinks it's OK to have SIS running around Gaza. I'm know the US has/does conduct Intelligence operations against Israel's national interest - as do a lot of NATO countries. Do we want to argue about who started it?

To place anything to do with Intelligence in the moral realm is obviously laughable, but for those who do, should we run tallies on how many Israelis have died / are dieing doing stuff for the US in places the US didn't want to go - or vice versa?

...and yes you have a legitimate right to be upset that Israel spies on the US, if you are American. If you have to ask "Why would Israel do this," then you clearly don't understand Israelis or Israel.

Wilf,

You may feel compelled to respond but I suggest you go easy. As ususal in such cases, you hyped right away with the implicatioin that the article suggested all Israelis are spies. It did not.

On Israelis dying for the US. Give me a break.

On morality and espionage. When Israel funds the US, maybe we can get to the laughable stage. Read Tenet's book concerning Israeli lobbying to get Pollard released. Try looking at technology transfers that I have gone through Israeli industries to China and elsewhere.

Don't tell me as an American that I have the right to question my own country's foreign policy.

Thanks

Tom

Ski
06-12-2008, 03:11 PM
I generally feel the same way as Monsieur Odom.

Steve Blair
06-12-2008, 03:55 PM
On morality and espionage. When Israel funds the US, maybe we can get to the laughable stage. Read Tenet's book concerning Israeli lobbying to get Pollard released. Try looking at technology transfers that I have gone through Israeli industries to China and elsewhere.

Don't tell me as an American that I have the right to question my own country's foreign policy.

Thanks

Tom

I seem to recall that at the time Pollard was arrested there was also a fair amount of pressure to let him off easy.

On the whole, the American public doesn't expect US allies to spy on us. Perhaps they're naive, but that's the general mindset. So when Israelis get busted doing this it tends to tick off a segment of the population. Perhaps Israelis need to understand that about Americans....

William F. Owen
06-12-2008, 05:22 PM
Wilf,

You may feel compelled to respond but I suggest you go easy. As ususal in such cases, you hyped right away with the implicatioin that the article suggested all Israelis are spies. It did not.

On Israelis dying for the US. Give me a break.

On morality and espionage. When Israel funds the US, maybe we can get to the laughable stage. Read Tenet's book concerning Israeli lobbying to get Pollard released. Try looking at technology transfers that I have gone through Israeli industries to China and elsewhere.

Don't tell me as an American that I have the right to question my own country's foreign policy.


Well I thought I did go easy – by my standards. :D

a.) …and to that point, I was not hyping. I was merely drawing any reader’s attention to commonly used anti-Israeli slur that was extremely germane to something mentioned in the article.

b.) You know, as well as I do, that Israel’s intelligence service has strayed way beyond it’s remit, to pursue activities of interest to solely to the US, and this has cost lives, especially in Africa, and few other places far from the Middle-East. I also stated that this was VICE-VERSA. As you are also aware, there are former IDF soldiers serving in the US forces in Iraq, and former US Soldiers plus US citizens serving in the IDF.

c.) The assumption that US funding of Israel (and a lot of other countries as well) should make the US immune to the alleged activities that Israel clearly believes critical to its own interest, even at great risk to US-Israel relationship should tell you something.

d.) I am extremely well aware of the alleged technology transfer issues, by virtue of actually knowing some the folks who fell foul of the Phalcon Project and a few others things. I think our understanding of the facts may differ widely as they would in relation to Project Lavi, the Korean AEW program, and many Israeli defence projects damaged by US “diplomatic” pressure.

e.) I was not aware that I had told you that you had any rights. I merely said (implied) that if I was a US citizen, I’d be a little outraged at Israel’s behavior. I spend a lot of my time strongly criticizing Israel, but I do it in Israel and with Israelis!

William F. Owen
06-12-2008, 05:56 PM
Wilf

The Israeli lobby has more influence on the American political process than any other single organization in the US. We give Israel over $3B a year in aid.

There are some very hard feelings towards the Israelis by many people in the US.

So they say. If that really is true, (and I'm not saying it isn't) then I'd say there is a problem with US democracy and not a problem with the Jews.

Money that comes with considerable strings attached. The IDF cannot buy Israeli made equipment with it. It has to buy US. This works against IDF interests and means good cost effective projects don't get funded. I can write a very long list of examples if you want - and in 2006 Israel exported $1 Billion worth of weaponry to the US Government, very little of which the IDF ever gets to see. All the good stuff gets exported. This is set to rise/continue.

Also you may want to check Israel's record on supporting the US in the UN and a few other forums, versus all the countries the US gives funding to. - and the the anti-US/Western Insurgents who get fed on US Aid around the world!

plus, unlike most US Allies Israel doesn't expect you to fight for them, so I think those dollars may be well spent in comparison to some.

Tom Odom
06-12-2008, 06:01 PM
and yes you have a legitimate right to be upset that Israel spies on the US, if you are American. If you have to ask "Why would Israel do this," then you clearly don't understand Israelis or Israel.

So much for your disclaimer "I was not aware that I had told you that you had any rights." As for understanding Israelis, we will have to disagree on that.


b.) You know, as well as I do, that Israel’s intelligence service has strayed way beyond it’s remit, to pursue activities of interest to solely to the US, and this has cost lives, especially in Africa, and few other places far from the Middle-East. I also stated that this was VICE-VERSA. As you are also aware, there are former IDF soldiers serving in the US forces in Iraq, and former US Soldiers plus US citizens serving in the IDF.

I know that Israeli intelligence has gone far abroad. In those cases whee you imply such efforts were at the US behest, I would say the Israel was pursuing its own interests. That is your defense of Israeli espionage efforts in the US is it not?

As for dual citizens that would be an individual choice.


The assumption that US funding of Israel (and a lot of other countries as well) should make the US immune to the alleged activities that Israel clearly believes critical to its own interest, even at great risk to US-Israel relationship should tell you something.

It does. Simply that Israel pursues its own policies and ends. Period. From that it means that evaluation the relationship in that light. As for funding other countries--no country gets more funding from the US than Israel. That too should be evaluated.


I am extremely well aware of the alleged technology transfer issues, by virtue of actually knowing some the folks who fell foul of the Phalcon Project and a few others things. I think our understanding of the facts may differ widely as they would in relation to Project Lavi, the Korean AEW program, and many Israeli defence projects damaged by US “diplomatic” pressure.

Use of alleged is out of place. As for the Lavi, I was in Israel when we the US said enough and watched the buses bring in the demonstrators. As for damage to Israeli denese projects, Wilf we fund a lot of them. As in the case of the Lavi, that funding was cut off for a lot of reasons.

Tom

Ski
06-12-2008, 07:03 PM
Our government is what it is - whether it good for Jews or not is completely irrelevant.

The money should be shut off today, along with the multiple billions we pony up to Egypt.

Israel, as far as I am concerned, is just another foreign country. Neutral at best.




So they say. If that really is true, (and I'm not saying it isn't) then I'd say there is a problem with US democracy and not a problem with the Jews.

Money that comes with considerable strings attached. The IDF cannot buy Israeli made equipment with it. It has to buy US. This works against IDF interests and means good cost effective projects don't get funded. I can write a very long list of examples if you want - and in 2006 Israel exported $1 Billion worth of weaponry to the US Government, very little of which the IDF ever gets to see. All the good stuff gets exported. This is set to rise/continue.

Also you may want to check Israel's record on supporting the US in the UN and a few other forums, versus all the countries the US gives funding to. - and the the anti-US/Western Insurgents who get fed on US Aid around the world!

plus, unlike most US Allies Israel doesn't expect you to fight for them, so I think those dollars may be well spent in comparison to some.

Ken White
06-12-2008, 07:43 PM
whatever one wants to call a midafternoon break.

Adam L
06-13-2008, 04:01 AM
Look, everybody spies on everybody. It's been that way throughout history (recent and ancient.) I'm sure the Brit's are spying on us, and we are spying on them. If the US, UK, Israel, Russia, or for that matter anybody didn't spy on everybody they would be derelict. With how we manage to lose our own intelligence "inter" and "intra" agency, I would think that it's the reasonable thing to worry about us sharing appropriate intel. I don't get pissed at anybody when we find out thier spying on us. It's their job and they have to do it. On the other hand, I want to do everything possible to make sure they can't do it. If we catch them, hopefully that means we are doing a good job.

Adam L

davidbfpo
06-13-2008, 07:55 AM
I'm sure the Brit's are spying on us, and we are spying on them.

Our mutual activity would never be called spying by diplomats, politicians and even spymasters. What I do find odd is that on the UK's senior intelligence body, the Joint Intelligence Committee (JIC), the USA has a pernament seat at the table, reportedly filled by the CIA Station chief. Nothing I have seen suggests this is reciprocal, dispite the widely reported "special relationship" in intelligence matters.

Even odder a few years ago an ex-CIA analyst sat (may well still sit) on the UK's leading monetary policy decision making body in the Bank of England. Now to my very limited knowledge no-one from the UK, let alone ex-MI6, ever sat on the equivalent in the Federal Reserve.

davidbfpo

Adam L
06-13-2008, 01:12 PM
Our mutual activity would never be called spying by diplomats, politicians and even spymasters. What I do find odd is that on the UK's senior intelligence body, the Joint Intelligence Committee (JIC), the USA has a pernament seat at the table, reportedly filled by the CIA Station chief. Nothing I have seen suggests this is reciprocal, dispite the widely reported "special relationship" in intelligence matters.

Even odder a few years ago an ex-CIA analyst sat (may well still sit) on the UK's leading monetary policy decision making body in the Bank of England. Now to my very limited knowledge no-one from the UK, let alone ex-MI6, ever sat on the equivalent in the Federal Reserve.

davidbfpo

That's Interesting. I'm going to look into that.

Adam L

bourbon
09-30-2008, 04:36 PM
Trojan Horse: How Israeli Backdoor Technology Penetrated the US Government's Telecom System and Compromised National Security (http://www.antiwar.com/orig/ketcham.php?articleid=13506), by Christopher Ketcham. Antiwar.com, September 26, 2008.

Pentagon Finds Religious Bias In Army Probe: Jewish Scientist Was Suspected of Spying (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/23/AR2008082301605.html), By Vickie Elmer. The Washington Post, August 24, 2008.

Two articles on this sensitive subject. The Ketcham article aggregates numerous stories from over the years, under the tent of CI vulnerabilities in our domestic telecom system. The Elmer article captures exactly why this issue needs to be handled calmly and methodically.

sullygoarmy
09-30-2008, 04:46 PM
Worth a read on the interaction of Israeli Lobby Groups and U.S. Foreign Policy. Walt and Mearsheimer expanded an article they had written and turned it into a very interesting and informative book. These two are power players in the world of Foreign Policy and theory.

Even though the book starts out by and repeating throughout the right for Israel to exist as a state, they were instantly labeled as anti-semetic and forced to cancel some of their lectures. As you can imagine, the book received instant fire from pro-Israel lobby groups. Really ashame because the book asks some hard questions and can serve as the basis for some really great discussion points.

The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy (http://www.amazon.com/Israel-Lobby-U-S-Foreign-Policy/dp/0374531501/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1222792901&sr=8-1)

Tom Odom
09-30-2008, 04:53 PM
Worth a read on the interaction of Israeli Lobby Groups and U.S. Foreign Policy. Walt and Mearsheimer expanded an article they had written and turned it into a very interesting and informative book. These two are power players in the world of Foreign Policy and theory.

Even though the book starts out by and repeating throughout the right for Israel to exist as a state, they were instantly labeled as anti-semetic and forced to cancel some of their lectures. As you can imagine, the book received instant fire from pro-Israel lobby groups. Really ashame because the book asks some hard questions and can serve as the basis for some really great discussion points.

The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy (http://www.amazon.com/Israel-Lobby-U-S-Foreign-Policy/dp/0374531501/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1222792901&sr=8-1)

I posted the original London Book Review article on here a couple of years ago. It is a ground breaking effort and drew all the expected criticism from the expected sources. At its heart it asks for a hard review of policy versus knee jerk reactions.

Tom

sullygoarmy
09-30-2008, 04:59 PM
Tom,
I figured some had already read it or reviewed it. I agree 100%. While I wasn't surprised at the reactions, it did catch me off guard was the ferocity of some of the attacks. A good, open debate can only help us in the long run, whether the political action committees agree or not.

Granite_State
10-02-2008, 02:26 PM
from an earlier thread:

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/washing.htm

bourbon
10-02-2008, 11:13 PM
from an earlier thread:

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/washing.htm
Thanks, haven't looked at that in some time. George Washington was no stranger to the spy game either, he probably is the grandfather of American Intelligence.

There is one evil I dread, and that is, their spies. I could wish, therefore, the most attentive watch be kept . . .
—George Washington, March 24, 1776


Even though the book starts out by and repeating throughout the right for Israel to exist as a state, they were instantly labeled as anti-semetic and forced to cancel some of their lectures. As you can imagine, the book received instant fire from pro-Israel lobby groups. Really ashame because the book asks some hard questions and can serve as the basis for some really great discussion points.
My fear is what may happen several presidential election cycles down the road, when a critical mass builds, and the public's eyes are really opened to the depths of Israeli influence on our policy making process. I'm talking about the non book reading, which is most of it, those who don't read wonky rags like The London Review of Books or follow issues like the Middle East or counterintelligence.

I fear potential backlash against Jewish Americans. The Israel lobby would likely argue that potential backlash is exactly why articles Walt and Mearsheimer, and especially Ketchum's need to be suppressed. I would argue that it should be ironed out now to defuze any future scenario.

Render
10-09-2008, 09:06 PM
http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=7&x_issue=21&x_article=1446

http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=8&x_nameinnews=189&x_article=1105

http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=7&x_issue=35&x_article=1099

http://www.nysun.com/national/harvards-paper-on-israel-drew-from-neo-nazi-sites/29741/

http://articles.latimes.com/2006/mar/29/opinion/oe-boot29

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB114325983069308278.html?mod=todays_us_opinion

http://arab-lobby.blogspot.com/

http://www.tau.ac.il/Anti-Semitism/asw2007/usa.html

http://www.think-israel.org/plaut.cockburn.html

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=1E39E2B4-95CE-40D5-AD56-C50822DE1FBC

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=6444

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/moonbatcentral/2005/03/cockburn-defends-anti-semite-disciple.html

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=1894


There might be a few valid reasons for the labels.

JUST
A
FEW,
R:mad:

selil
10-09-2008, 09:23 PM
snippage...

There might be a few valid reasons for the labels.

JUST
A
FEW,
R:mad:

For or against, a bunch of activist websites, blogs, and opinion pages aren't going to change many people minds.

The original article as quoted was filled with heavy citations (trust me when I say that is just as suspect). For or against, the level needed to answer or criticize the Kennedy organizations article must be of at least the same quality.

Render
10-10-2008, 12:40 AM
http://www.hks.harvard.edu/research/working_papers/dershowitzreply.pdf

"In his response, Professor Alan Dershowitz demonstrates that the paper contains three types of major errors: quotations are wrenched out of context, important facts are misstated or omitted; and embarrassingly weak logic is employed. One of the authors of this paper has acknowledged that “none of the evidence represents original documentation or is derived from independent interviews.”

SERIOUSLY,
R

Ken White
10-10-2008, 02:14 AM
...There might be a few valid reasons for the labels.

JUST
A
FEW,
R:mad:It would be much better if you were to post a comment in your own words to explain why you thought so. Just posting a slew of links that may or may not support a position you appear to espouse is a poor technique and is discouraged here; that kind of stuff belongs on the juvenile political blogs.

It would be appreciated if you'd refrain from the practice in the future.

Thanks

Ken

Tom Odom
10-10-2008, 01:08 PM
Rather than wade through the links offered, let me just say that in trying to debate the idea that an Israeli Lobby exists and has extraordinary effect on US policies in the region, offering a series of counterpoint articles from CAMERA or a Neocon like Max Boot is a predictable tactic, one that largely buttresses what the two authors originally had to say.

Central to most of those critics is the idea that it is anti-semitic to criticize Israeli policies in the US. One of Israel's strengths has been an active debate on the very same issues within Israeli society.


It is also useful to look at the authors' rebuttal to what their critics put forward.


The Israel Lobby
From John Mearsheimer & Stephen Walt (http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n09/letters.html)

We wrote ‘The Israel Lobby’ in order to begin a discussion of a subject that had become difficult to address openly in the United States (LRB, 23 March). We knew it was likely to generate a strong reaction, and we are not surprised that some of our critics have chosen to attack our characters or misrepresent our arguments. We have also been gratified by the many positive responses we have received, and by the thoughtful commentary that has begun to emerge in the media and the blogosphere. It is clear that many people – including Jews and Israelis – believe that it is time to have a candid discussion of the US relationship with Israel. It is in that spirit that we engage with the letters responding to our article. We confine ourselves here to the most salient points of dispute.

Tom

bourbon
10-24-2008, 02:50 AM
Former Senior CIA Operative Says Spy Agency, State Dept. Are Antisemitic (http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/spytalk/2008/10/former-senior-cia-operative-sa.html), By Jeff Stein. Congressional Quarterly: Spy Talk, October 23, 2008.


Clare M. Lopez, who spent 20 years as an operative in Africa, Latin America and the Balkans, charged in an interview that "a terrible strain of anti-Semitism...has taken root and grown in the ranks of our State Department and CIA in particular."

"U.S. Middle East policy is woefully misguided, in my opinion. How could it be otherwise?" Lopzez said in an interview with the Canada Free Press web site.

"Thirty-five years of graduates from Saudi-Wahhabi-Salafi-funded Ivy League Middle East Studies programs now occupy top positions throughout our Department of State, Intelligence Community, think tanks, media, and academia itself," Lopez said.

Secretary Rice anti-Israel? Not to sound crass, but its too bad she isn't.

Syria has a proven track record of destroying Salafi Jihadists and provided intelligence that saved American lives in the wake of 9/11. Their cooperation in the reconstruction of Iraq could have easily been secured. So if Secretary Rice were indeed anti-Israel, we would not favoring regime change in Syria and subsequently not be on the side of the same guys responsible for 9/11.

120mm
10-24-2008, 12:00 PM
Oddly enough, the folks I've met from State who deploy are apparently neither, to talk to them. Most are too busy protecting their own hide to care about the agit-prop.

But I've met both rabid Pro-Arab and Pro-Israel types who inhabit various analyst and leadership positions and sit on their keesters in the DC area and bloviate....

I'd say the answer is "C", way too many who are radically for one side or the other.

Tom Odom
10-24-2008, 12:54 PM
Former Senior CIA Operative Says Spy Agency, State Dept. Are Antisemitic (http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/spytalk/2008/10/former-senior-cia-operative-sa.html), By Jeff Stein. Congressional Quarterly: Spy Talk, October 23, 2008.



Secretary Rice anti-Israel? Not to sound crass, but its too bad she isn't.

Syria has a proven track record of destroying Salafi Jihadists and provided intelligence that saved American lives in the wake of 9/11. Their cooperation in the reconstruction of Iraq could have easily been secured. So if Secretary Rice were indeed anti-Israel, we would not favoring regime change in Syria and subsequently not be on the side of the same guys responsible for 9/11.

Funny she showed up as a center point of discussion on the AKO intelligence discussion email circuit because of this article:


Hizballah – and by extension, Iran – owns Lebanon

Former CIA Ops Officer on Hizballah (http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/5738)
By W. Thomas Smith Jr. Wednesday, October 22, 2008

Among my sources for a recent piece, “Are We Funding the Lebanese Army or Hizballah?” (Human Events, Oct. 20, 2008), was my friend and colleague, Clare M. Lopez, who – when I mentioned to her my concerns regarding Hizballah’s having wormed its way into the legitimate Lebanese Defense apparatus as an official component of the army – said to me, “It’s actually the other way around. The army now appears to be part of Hizballah.”

Lopez – a former operations officer with the Central Intelligence Agency who is today a widely sought expert in the interconnected realms of strategic policy, counterintelligence, and counterterrorism – clearly understands the dynamics of Lebanon, its strategic importance in the war on terror, and its increasingly dominant kingdom within the state, Hizballah.

My comments were:


Many words come to mind but they are not suitable for here.

I am glad she is a former CIA Ops Officer.

Anyone who thinks Hizballah is a direct extension of Iran with no end state or agenda of its own does not understand Lebanon.

Best

Tom

and


First I think the article is electioneering hyperbole and I will not go beyond that statement.

Second Lebanon is a microcosm of the Middle East in its ethnic quilt. Agendas fold within agendas and simple just does not apply. Hizballah is a Lebanese--hence Arab--Shia fundamentalist organization that has consistently expanded its social networks in Lebanon even as it expanded its military capacities.

Iran is also complex and its role in Lebanon is not simpy to have a foothold on the Mediterranean. The image of such a geostrategic posture is more valuable than actually trying to maintain such a posture. Certainly Tehran sees benefit in expanding its ties to Hizballah as a challenge to Israel and
the US. But the Iranians are not Arab and that means a lot in just how close those ties can become. To declare that Iran owns Lebanon is simply too simple and certainly too short sighted. Syria tried to own Lebanon and I would hazard a guess that the old school in Syria still want to control Lebanon.


Tom

Ken White
10-24-2008, 03:24 PM
...My comments were:

I am glad she is a former CIA Ops Officer.

Anyone who thinks Hizballah is a direct extension of Iran with no end state or agenda of its own does not understand Lebanon.True on the latter.

On the first, is it just me or are a lot of those 'former' types crawling out of the woodwork saying strange and wonderful things -- that make little sense... :eek:

Render
12-05-2008, 05:48 AM
http://www.hks.harvard.edu/research/working_papers/dershowitzreply.pdf

Read it again.

Nobody is debating the existence of AIPAC. That's a pathetically transparent strawman argument.

I showed you where the water is, I cannot force you to drink.

Selil: Note the well known and self admitted biases of the websites (counterpunch, antiwar dot com) that others had mentioned previous to my first comment. They both repeatedly publish the works of known Holocaust deniers. The Cockburn family (counterpunch) has three generations of anti-Semitic history only thinly veiled as anti-Zionism. Justin Raimondo (antiwar) is a 9/11 truther who claims that both the US and Israeli governments commited 9/11.

=

It should also be noted that the Kennedy School pulled its name off that paper, in 2006.R

Ken White
12-05-2008, 06:59 AM
I'll just re quote that for you form the 10th of October, 2008:

"It would be much better if you were to post a comment in your own words to explain why you thought so. Just posting a slew of links that may or may not support a position you appear to espouse is a poor technique and is discouraged here; that kind of stuff belongs on the juvenile political blogs.

It would be appreciated if you'd refrain from the practice in the future."

I'm please to not that you did in this posting provide amplifying comment. However, you also attacked another poster and the rule is attack the comment, not the individual. So you get an infraction.

Adam L
12-05-2008, 05:31 PM
May I suggest we avoid threads like this in the future? I very much question the credibility of most of these “articles,” as well as the value of the commentary. If you step back for a second, this thread reads like an average political discussion board with, in general, the same people agreeing with each other, and maybe one or two people getting caught in the middle. The starting point is also typical of so many blogs: a “controversial” book, statement or article. There has been no discourse that is sufficiently rigorous in its research or neutral in its approach, and nothing new or enlightening is being offered. Some of the comments reflect, at best, a polarized view and, at worst, personal bias. It is really unbecoming. I really think everyone needs to step back, take a breather, calm down and separate themselves from the issues for consideration.

Adam L

Steve Blair
12-05-2008, 07:06 PM
This thread has exceeded its useful life. Closed.

SWCAdmin
01-28-2009, 12:29 AM
Columbia University Press is pleased to announce the publication of The Israeli Secret Services & The Struggle Against Terrorism (http://www.cup.columbia.edu/book/978-0-231-14042-3/the-israeli-secret-services-and-the-struggle-against-terrorism) by Ami Pedahzur, professor of political science and Middle Eastern Studies at the University of Texas.

The book questions Israeli strategy in fighting terrorism, criticizing the use of a "war model," which Pedahzur argues is motivate more by politics than sound strategy.

Please let me know if you would like a review copy of the book.

The author is also available for interviews and to contribute to your site.

Praise for the book:

"Replete with detail, vignettes, and insights, this book provides a unique inside account of the Israeli intelligence and security services' sixty-year-long struggle against terrorism. It is the most comprehensive and authoritative depiction and analysis of this struggle currently available in the English language." — Bruce Hoffman, author of Inside Terrorism

Read more reviews (http://www.cup.columbia.edu/book/978-0-231-14042-3/the-israeli-secret-services-and-the-struggle-against-terrorism/reviews).

About the book:

How successful has Israel's renowned intelligence operation been in stopping terrorist attacks?

While Mossad is known as one of the world's most successful terrorist-fighting organizations, Ami Pedahzur shows that Israel's strict reliance on the elite units of the intelligence community is fundamentally flawed and has not decreased the incidence of Palestinian terrorism. In fact, the diversion of funds and manpower to anti-terrorist activities has put Israel in greater danger from its enemies. The "War model" that Israel has employed, Pedahzur argues, should be replaced by a more defensive model.

An expert on terror and political extremism, Pedahzur analyzes and conveys in vivid detail Israel's past encounters with terrorists, specifically hostage rescue missions, the first and second wars in Lebanon, the challenges of the West Bank and Gaza, Palestinian terrorist groups, and Hezbollah. He brings a rare transparency to Israel's counterterrorist activities, highlighting their successes and failures and the ways in which politics and in-fighting between various services shape Israeli policy toward terrorism. Pedahzur concludes by outlining a strategy for future confrontation that will be relevant not only to Israel but also to other countries that have adopted Israel's intelligence-based model.

"Ami Pedahzur has written an astute, well-documented, and compelling analysis of Israel's reliance on the 'war model' to combat terrorism. Israel's political and military leaders were consistently unable to resist the temptation of dramatic and costly uses of force when modest defensive or conciliatory measures were preferable. This lesson should not be lost on any national policymaker confronted by terrorism." — Martha Crenshaw, Stanford University

About the author

Ami Pedahzur holds a Ph.D. in political science from the University of Haifa where, from 2000 to 2004, he served as a senior fellow at the National Security Studies Center. In 2004 he was a Donald D. Harrington fellow at the University of Texas, and in 2005 became an associate professor in the departments of Government and Middle Eastern Studies. In 2007 Pedahzur joined The Robert S. Strauss Center for International Security and Law at the Lyndon B. Johnson School of Public Affairs and currently serves as associate editor of the journal Studies in Conflict and Terrorism. His books include Suicide Terrorism and The Israeli Response to Jewish Extremism and Violence: Defending Democracy.

bourbon
02-17-2010, 05:27 AM
Israeli Hit Squad? Dubai Police Issue International Warrants: 11-Person Team Used Disguises, Fake European Passports in Plot To Kill Top Hamas Leader (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/israeli-hit-squad-dubai-police-issue-international-warrants/story?id=9850586), by Lara Setrakian and Brian Ross. ABC News, Feb. 16, 2010.

All signs point to an Israeli hit squad, using fake passports and elaborate disguises, in the assassination of a top Hamas leader in a Dubai hotel room, according to current and former intelligence officials.

Police in Dubai have issued international arrest warrants for eleven people wanted in the murder of Mahmoud al Mabhouh, a Hamas military commander, who was found dead in his room at the five-star Al Bustan Rotana Hotel in Dubai.

davidbfpo
02-17-2010, 06:54 AM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/dubai/7253413/Dubai-Hamas-assassination-a-smiling-killer-and-mystery-of-forged-UK-passports.html

Trade craft?

bourbon
02-17-2010, 04:00 PM
Trade craft?
They must have figured the exposure from the cctv into their calculus, right? Perhaps they decided it was still worth it, and that it would send a message to the enemy. Deniability wouldn’t have been much of a factor then.

Entropy
02-17-2010, 04:11 PM
The video the Dubai police put together is pretty amazing.

omarali50
02-17-2010, 05:37 PM
If Israeli secret services did this (and they must be top of the list of suspects right now), then this is exceptionally stupid. It reeks of arrogance AND stupidity. What message could be worth this kind of nonsense? Israel may have the self-image of a superpower, but its still a relatively small country and its protectors are not going to take infinite pains for its sake...this seems very stupid to me.

BayonetBrant
02-17-2010, 06:28 PM
maybe someone wanted it to look like the Israelis did it. anyone taking a whack at a Hamas leader had to know Israel would get blamed for it no matter who actually did it. OBL could get drunk and shoot an Al-Jazeera news anchor on live TV and someone would still blame the Mossad.

omarali50
02-17-2010, 06:45 PM
maybe someone wanted it to look like the Israelis did it. anyone taking a whack at a Hamas leader had to know Israel would get blamed for it no matter who actually did it. OBL could get drunk and shoot an Al-Jazeera news anchor on live TV and someone would still blame the Mossad.

What you say may be generally true, but in this SPECIFIC case, the kicker is in the details: what hamas intelligence agency has the wherewithal to find the passport information of 11 Europeans with Israeli connections?

bourbon
02-17-2010, 06:46 PM
What message could be worth this kind of nonsense?
Sow fear and discord amongst the enemy, and their financiers and suppliers. It lets the enemy know that they are not even safe in the peaceful sanctuary of Dubai. Israel has also been trying to bolster its deterrence credibility since the 2006 Lebanon war.


Israel may have the self-image of a superpower, but its still a relatively small country and its protectors are not going to take infinite pains for its sake...this seems very stupid to me.
The U.S. Congress will.

omarali50
02-17-2010, 06:48 PM
And i would add that IF some other intelligence agency did this, then Isreal's goose is cooked more thoroughly than we think: The whole balance of power in this case is supposedly based on Israel and US having such immense superiority in skills that it completely overcomes any advantage Israel's opponents have in numbers...if those opponents are this good with the passports and personal info of people living in Israel or linked to Israel, then its time to short your bets on Israel...

Firn
02-17-2010, 06:53 PM
If Israeli secret services did this (and they must be top of the list of suspects right now), then this is exceptionally stupid. It reeks of arrogance AND stupidity. What message could be worth this kind of nonsense? Israel may have the self-image of a superpower, but its still a relatively small country and its protectors are not going to take infinite pains for its sake...this seems very stupid to me.

Ambiguity coupled with apparently irrational or unpredictable behavior can be a precious ressource. But it can also come at a high price.

Even the most secret Secret Services are staffed with humans and errare humanum est, so something could have gone wrong, or perhaps extremely well.


Firn

Rex Brynen
02-17-2010, 07:28 PM
There's no particular downside to the Israelis from this hit (other than a few Mossad operatives whose photos have now been circulated). It sends a message, possibly prods Hamas into a poetentially self-destructive mole-hunt, removes an effective operative, and pays off well domestically.

Had they botched it--as they did in Lillehammer in 1973 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillehammer_affair), Amman in 1997 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khaled_Mashal#Assassination_attempt), or Auckland in 2004 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Israel_–_New_Zealand_spy_scandal) it would have been a different matter. Also, unlike the Mishal assassination attempt in Jordan, I don't think Israeli relations with Dubai/UAE are of particular concern to the Netanyahu government (although Wilf might want to be careful next time he's traveling to or via the Gulf!)

William F. Owen
02-17-2010, 07:48 PM
There's no particular downside to the Israelis from this hit (other than a few Mossad operatives whose photos have now been circulated). It sends a message, possibly prods Hamas into a poetentially self-destructive mole-hunt, removes an effective operative, and pays off well domestically.
Wallah! Can't argue with any of that. Nice to see some opinion based on actual understanding. :)

although Wilf might want to be careful next time he's traveling to or via the Gulf!
Well I think I failed the Institute amateur-night try-outs back in my twenties, and these days everyone knows where I stand....

omarali50
02-17-2010, 10:54 PM
I disagree with the notion that it sows fear and confusion. If anything, it shows that they cannot do this every day. And whatever fear and confusion there is in the arab world, its imaginary conspiracy variant is already a few hundred times bigger than any real capabilities the Israelis have. I dont see this adding much to that "fear".
I also disagree with the statement that there is no downside. It is always unsafe to assume that current trends will persist forever. Military capabilities are ultimately tied to resources and capabilities of the society fielding that military. There is a large gap between the capabilities of Israeli (and US) society and Arab societies, but its not an infinite gap. Its going to close someday. Meanwhile, Israel is dependent on US support (European support has never been as impressive and is already declining) and that support is easier to provide when it is relatively cheap. When it gets hugely expensive and starts to bite, then the best of friends will start to think twice. Long before Arab military capabilities come close to Israel's, the Arab's ability to manipulate public opinion will improve to the point that US opinion will shift. These shenanigans bring that day closer, so they are not smart from an Israeli point of view. Just my opinion.

Schmedlap
02-17-2010, 11:00 PM
I see this as nothing but a win for the Israelis, not just because their adversary was killed, but because everybody is now talking about it, and regardless of whether Israel confirms or denies it, everybody is assuming that they did it. Message: we wanted you dead, and now you are. My only gripe is that nobody seems to see an issue with some supposed man of the people living the high life in Dubai. This is some "freedom fighter" who is fighting for the little guy, right? But he's living large in Dubai? Was he also pimpin around Gaza in an Escalade?:rolleyes:

Rex Brynen
02-18-2010, 12:15 AM
I disagree with the notion that it sows fear and confusion.

The fear and confusion stems from the possibility that the presumably highly compartmentalized information on al-Mabhouh's mission might have been leaked from within Hamas, or through compromised means of communication. Certainly Hamas as an organization won't be intimidated.

What will be interesting--and in this regard, the operation could have negative consequences for Israel--is whether Hamas lifts its self-prohibition on external operations (ie, those outside Palestine) to retaliate against an Israeli target in a third country.


My only gripe is that nobody seems to see an issue with some supposed man of the people living the high life in Dubai.

He appears to have been in Dubai for operational reasons, Schmedlap--he didn't live there

tequila
02-18-2010, 01:12 AM
The U.S. Congress will.


Amen to that.

Omar, the Israelis have been caught red-handed spying on the U.S. several times. A U.S. Congressperson was caught on tape agreeing to try to interfere with an investigation of said spying with a suspected Israeli intelligence asset (http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?docID=hsnews-000003098436&cpage=1), signing off by saying "this conversation doesn't exist." There really isn't much that Israel can't do that Congress won't sign off on.

TheLapsedPacifist
02-18-2010, 01:33 AM
It's all a bit of a soap-opera...the BBC's reaction that the UK passports was a bit melodramatic...the photos were obviously fake - big grins, large glasses, wigs, I expected some dodgy porn-facial hair, but was disappointed!

So who dunnit? Well, from one perspective, who cares...a very bad man is not with us anymore.

And I don't see this as bad for the Israelis...the rest of the nations have deployed hundreds of thousands of soldiers in prolonged campaigns, spent billions, suffered hundreds of casualties, and thousands of civilians have died and we don't have our man...the Israelis quietly located this guy and dealt with him...that Gentlemen is deterrence that an insurgent can understand. More of the same, I hope.

Whilst I'm on my soapbox, I find the fact that Dubai is preparing to ask InterPol to issue arrest warrants laughable...I don't presume that Dubai was very busy trying to arrest this guy living under their noses in the lap of luxury?

Rex Brynen
02-18-2010, 02:42 AM
that Gentlemen is deterrence that an insurgent can understand.

Oh, it's certainly not deterrence in any form. It might damage operational effectiveness somewhat, but it won't have any effect on the willingness of Palestinians to join, or support, Hamas.

omarali50
02-18-2010, 03:19 AM
It's all a bit of a soap-opera...the BBC's reaction that the UK passports was a bit melodramatic...the photos were obviously fake - big grins, large glasses, wigs, I expected some dodgy porn-facial hair, but was disappointed!

So who dunnit? Well, from one perspective, who cares...a very bad man is not with us anymore.

And I don't see this as bad for the Israelis...the rest of the nations have deployed hundreds of thousands of soldiers in prolonged campaigns, spent billions, suffered hundreds of casualties, and thousands of civilians have died and we don't have our man...the Israelis quietly located this guy and dealt with him...that Gentlemen is deterrence that an insurgent can understand. More of the same, I hope.

Whilst I'm on my soapbox, I find the fact that Dubai is preparing to ask InterPol to issue arrest warrants laughable...I don't presume that Dubai was very busy trying to arrest this guy living under their noses in the lap of luxury?
pacifist, I find nothing surprising in your letter, but I do have a prediction: In a few years, the media equation will start to change AND the costs of blindly supporting Israel will accelerate until even the rich and powerful US will have to think twice before spending billions carrying water for Israel all over the world...then, these apparently "normal" views will change.
Dont take my word for it, just be willing to rethink assumptions and look around...you will see that this situation is not tenable forever. It is in the interest of the Israeli people to make a reasonable peace with the Palestinians. Trying to beat and bludgeon their way out of this will not work.

Firn
02-18-2010, 07:38 AM
The fear and confusion stems from the possibility that the presumably highly compartmentalized information on al-Mabhouh's mission might have been leaked from within Hamas, or through compromised means of communication. Certainly Hamas as an organization won't be intimidated.

What will be interesting--and in this regard, the operation could have negative consequences for Israel--is whether Hamas lifts its self-prohibition on external operations (ie, those outside Palestine) to retaliate against an Israeli target in a third country.


I agree mostly. As I wrote before it is hard to say which positive and negative impacts this possibly Mossad coup will have. We should not just look at the "bright" side.


Firn

TheLapsedPacifist
02-18-2010, 11:31 AM
pacifist, I find nothing surprising in your letter, but I do have a prediction: In a few years, the media equation will start to change AND the costs of blindly supporting Israel will accelerate until even the rich and powerful US will have to think twice before spending billions carrying water for Israel all over the world...then, these apparently "normal" views will change.
Dont take my word for it, just be willing to rethink assumptions and look around...you will see that this situation is not tenable forever. It is in the interest of the Israeli people to make a reasonable peace with the Palestinians. Trying to beat and bludgeon their way out of this will not work.

@omarali50: My issue doesn't concern the rights or wrongs of the Israeli occupation - just their ways and means of dealing with this particular adversary in contrast to ours. Generally, Israel's actions don't get my vote.

Entropy
02-18-2010, 01:52 PM
Brits don't seem too happy their passports were used (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/7258631/British-threat-to-Israel-over-Dubai-Hamas-assassination.html):


Ministers are understood to be furious that an alleged hit squad which murdered a Hamas leader in Dubai last month cloned the passports of six unsuspecting Britons, who are now living in fear of reprisals.

Israel, which has not denied involvement in the murder, had previously promised that Mossad, its secret intelligence service, would never use British passports to help its agents carry out covert operations.

Kevin23
02-20-2010, 09:30 AM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/19/AR2010021901511.html

Apparently Israel isn't the only suspect as we already know.

M-A Lagrange
02-20-2010, 12:47 PM
On Slate.fr, they present a reconstitution of the events minutes per minutes(not translated) for those who are interrested.
Sorry did not have time to translate it in english


19 HEURES AVANT LE MEURTRE


Le commando était constitué de onze membres. Quatre membres sont arrivés d'Allemagne, deux de Suisse, trois d'Italie et deux de France.

19 Janvier 2010
12h09: Michael et James arrivent à l'aéroport de Dubaï
12h30: Gail et Kevin arrivent de France par le vol AF526
12h58: Michael et James traînent leurs valises et s'enregistrent à la réception d'un hôtel.
01h21: un taxi dépose Gail Foliard à qui l'hôtel attribue la chambre 1102. Elle se présente à la réception en pantalon, avec une queue de cheval et des lunettes teintées. Un garçon d'étage l'aide à porter ses valises jusqu'à sa chambre.
01h31: un taxi dépose Kevin Daveron à la chambre 3308 dans le même hôtel que Gail. Les services de surveillance précisent que les protagonistes n'ont pas directement communiqué entre eux avec leur téléphone. Mais ils ont par la suite découvert qu'il y a eu des appels suspects vers des numéros internationaux basés en Autriche. On soupçonne qu'ils étaient en relation avec leur centre de commandement en utilisant des moyens de communications cryptées de très haut niveau.
02h29: un agent possédant le passeport français au nom de Peter Elvinger, né le 10/10/1960, arrive à Dubaï avec un bagage suspect.
02h30: Peter quitte l'aéroport puis revient plus tard.
02h39: Peter, après s'être assuré autour de lui qu'il n'était pas suivi, rencontre un membre de l'équipe à l'aéroport avant de prendre un taxi.
02h40: les deux personnes quittent l'aéroport dans deux directions différentes, l'une d'entre elles a été filmée au parking souterrain.
02h46: Peter Elvinger s'enregistre à un hôtel et occupe la chambre 518. Il porte une casquette blanche qui masque une partie de son visage barbu, un Tee-shirt à rayures bleues et un pull sur les épaules.
10h30 : Peter visite un centre commercial à Dubaï.
10h30: trois membres de l'équipe arrivent au centre commercial.
10h50: Kevin et Gail arrivent au même centre commercial.
11h30: Gail, en pantalon blanc, quitte seule le centre commercial.
12h18: Kevin quitte à son tour le centre commercial en compagnie d'une femme non identifiée.
12h41: deux autres membres quittent le centre.
13h30: Kevin se rend à la réception de l'hôtel pour enregistrer son départ. Il est ensuite filmé à la sortie de l'hôtel en train de prendre un taxi.
13h45: Kevin, arrivé chauve, se présente à un autre hôtel après avoir modifié son apparence en se grimant avec une perruque noire et des grosses lunettes.
14h12: une équipe de surveillance de deux personnes, très voyants en tenue sportive et en short, arrive à l'hôtel Al Bustan Rotana.
14h14: Kévin déguisé arrive à un autre hôtel avec une valise à roulettes.
14h21: deux membres de l'équipe arrivent au même hôtel que Kévin.
14h30: un membre de l'équipe de surveillance s'installe à un l'hôtel où la victime est censée arriver, mais il le quitte après avoir eu la confirmation que la victime était inscrite ailleurs.
14h41: Peter quitte définitivement son hôtel et règle sa note auprès de la réception.
15h12: Gail quitte, elle aussi, définitivement son hôtel.
15h19: toute l'équipe de surveillance attend la victime dans le lobby de l'hôtel.
15h20: la victime arrive à l'aéroport de Dubaï et est repérée et suivie par un membre du commando qui communique immédiatement avec les autres membres.
15h23: une voiture dépose un membre de l'équipe dans le même hôtel que Kevin et les autres membres.
15h24: Peter arrive dans ce même hôtel dans une voiture de location avec chauffeur.
15h25: Gail s'installe dans un autre hôtel pour se déguiser et modifier son apparence. Elle ne porte plus de queue de cheval mais une perruque brune qui lui couvre une partie du visage.
15h25: Mabhouh arrive à la réception de l'hôtel Rotana, encadré au guichet par deux membres dont un petit gros en short et en tenue de sport voyante avec une raquette de tennis. La victime est accompagnée d'une hôtesse qui l'introduit dans l'ascenseur. Deux membres déguisés en sportif le suivent dans l'ascenseur et le suivent jusqu'à la chambre 230.
15h30: Les deux membres sont filmés en train d'utiliser un matériel de communication sophistiqué de type téléphone. Ils attendent sur le palier près de l'ascenseur le retour de l'hôtesse qui venait d'accompagner la victime et plaisantent avec elle.
15h32: Le numéro de la chambre, 237, face à celle de la victime, est communiqué au reste de l'équipe.

CINQ HEURES AVANT LE MEUTRE

15h47: Gail arrive dans le même hôtel que toute l'équipe.
15h51: Peter coiffé d'une casquette sombre entre dans un centre commercial voisin. Il téléphone à l'hôtel pour réserver la chambre 237 et simultanément, réserve un vol pour Munich via le Qatar.
16h03: une nouvelle équipe de surveillance arrive en complément de celle déjà sur place.
16h14: Kévin quitte son l'hôtel et se dirige vers l'hôtel Rotana en taxi.
16h16: Gail quitte aussi son hôtel en taxi accompagnée par un membre de l'équipe et se dirige vers Rotana.
16h23: Mabhouh quitte seul sa chambre d'hôtel et se dirige vers l'ascenseur suivi par un membre du commando. Il quitte ensuite l'hôtel.
16h24: un membre du commando transmet aux autres membres la description de la voiture de la victime puis réintègre sa place de surveillance.
16h25: Kevin, couvert d'une casquette, arrive à l'hôtel Rotana.
16h27: Peter arrive à l'hôtel Rotana et remet son sac à Kévin.
16h33: Peter s'enregistre à la réception qui lui remet la clef de la chambre 237.
16h40: Peter quitte l'hôtel après avoir donné sa clef à Kévin.
16h44: Kévin intègre la chambre 237 avec la valise que lui a remise Peter.
17h06: Gail déguisée avec une grande perruque arrive à l'hôtel et se dirige vers la chambre 237.
17h36: un membre toujours coiffé d'une casquette et portant un postiche arrive à l'hôtel et se rend dans la chambre 237.
18h21: Gail quitte la chambre emportant plusieurs paquets qu'elle doit distribuer aux autres membres de l'équipe dans le parking souterrain. Puis elle réintègre la chambre.
18h32: la première équipe d'exécution, en tenue décontractée et toujours coiffée de casquettes, arrive à l'hôtel en se rendant directement dans la chambre 237.
18h34: une deuxième équipe d'exécution, portant les mêmes casquettes, arrive à l'hôtel, se dirige vers la chambre 237 en portant des sacs lourds.
18h41: une nouvelle équipe de surveillance, un couple dont la femme n'est pas Gail, grimée de perruques et de grosses lunettes, portant de grands chapeaux de paille, arrive à l'hôtel pour remplacer l'équipe sur place. On la voit utiliser du matériel de communication près de la réception de l'hôtel.
18h42: la première équipe de surveillance quitte l'hôtel pour éviter d'être repérée.
19h30: Peter quitte le pays par l'aéroport de Dubaï. Il est filmé par les caméras de surveillance de l'aéroport en train de faire la queue pour passer les contrôles policiers.

UNE HEURE AVANT LE MEUTRE

20h00: Kévin est en surveillance sur le palier de l'ascenseur en train d'utiliser son téléphone.
20h01: après le départ du personnel de l'hôtel, l'équipe tente d'entrer dans la chambre 230, mais Kévin les prévient qu'elle doit d'urgence la quitter quand l'ascenseur s'arrête à l'étage et qu'un vrai touriste en sort. Le contrôle informatique d'accès de l'hôtel a enregistré une tentative de reprogrammer l'accès à la chambre 230.
20h24: Mabhouh retourne à son hôtel. On le voit sortir seul de l'ascenseur pour se diriger vers sa chambre en tenant à la main un sac de nylon contenant vraisemblablement un journal. Gail apparaît alors sur le palier en communiquant au téléphone après avoir rejoint Kévin chargé de la surveillance de l'étage.
20h27: Gail et Kevin se mettent en position pour contrôler le hall de l'étage pendant que l'équipe d'exécution opère.


20h46: Deux membres du commando d'exécution, devisant de manière très décontractée sur le palier de l'ascenseur attendent tranquillement. Ils sont immédiatement rejoints par deux autres membres et à quatre, casquettés de manière peu discrète, ils prennent l'ascenseur pour quitter l'hôtel.
20h47: Gail quitte aussi l'hôtel accompagnée d'un autre membre de l'équipe.
20h51: Kevin quitte l'hôtel en emportant sa valise.
20h52: L'équipe de surveillance installée dans le lobby quitte l'hôtel.
22h30: Gail et Kevin, filmés à l'aéroport, quittent le pays.

Le 20 janvier à 1h30, la direction de l'hôtel ouvre la chambre 230 qui avait été fermée de l'intérieur, avec la chaîne et la serrure intactes, après plusieurs tentatives de l'avoir au téléphone. Les premiers rapports médicaux faisaient état d'une mort due à une extrême pression du sang dans le cerveau.

Selon les autorités de Dubaï, Mahmoud el-Mabhouh était entré dans le pays sous le nom de Mahmoud AbdelRa'ouf Mohammed.

Les membres du commando ont été identifiés comme suit:

Kevin Daveron: passeport écossais, a quitté Dubaï pour Paris deux heures après le meurtre.
Gail Foliard: passeport écossais, a quitté Dubaï deux heures après le meurtre direction Paris.
Peter Elvinger: passeport français, a quitté le pays avant le meurtre.
Evan Dennings: passeport écossais a quitté le pays quatre heures après pour Zurich.
James Leonard: passeport britannique a quitté Dubaï 12h après pour Frankfort.
Melvin Adam Mildiner: passeport britannique, est part deux heures après pour l'Afrique du Sud.
Michael Bodenheimer: passeport allemand, parti trois heures après pour Hong-Kong.
Michael Lawrence: passeport britannique a quitté Dubaï 10h après pour Frankfort.
Jonathan Louis Graham: passeport britannique, parti trois heures après pour Hong-Kong.
Stephen Daniel Hodes: passeport britannique, a quitté Dubaï deux heures après pour l'Afrique du Sud.

http://www.slate.fr/story/17597/-mossad-assassinat-dubai-minute-par-minute

Rex Brynen
02-20-2010, 06:00 PM
How spy technologies foil old-school political killings (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/19/AR2010021905335.html?hpid=topnews)


By R. Jeffrey Smith and Peter Finn
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, February 20, 2010


The practice of secretly assassinating purported enemies of the state -- an age-old tool of foreign policy -- has run up against steadily improving international police collaboration and the global proliferation of surveillance technologies that make it harder for anyone anywhere to surreptitiously conduct a high-profile killing on foreign soil.

In Doha, London and now Dubai, political killers have been caught on film and tracked, provoking unexpected attention and controversy for the organizers. Because of new biometric technologies, the proliferation of cheap video, and sophisticated monitoring of customs points and airports, the skills of those who specialize in the creation of fictional identities have been tested, and sometimes defeated.

davidbfpo
02-21-2010, 09:20 PM
The Dubai police CCTV compilation is on Abu M:http://www.cnas.org/blogs/abumuqawama/2010/02/speaking-ct.html

There are pictures of a time chart and a few other details.

One clear gap is whether the suspects were forensically aware, so will have not left any DNA or fingerprints behind - notably in the hotel rooms used. Without that evidence any Interpol circulation is flawed, who are the real suspects using the forged passports? Tracing the phone calls made and the money used offer some options and "dead ends".

Stratfor have a You Tube item:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTmRyyZEVQY&feature=player_embeddedwith an ex-US DoS expert commenting (Hat tip to Free Radicals blogsite).

Rex Brynen
02-21-2010, 11:27 PM
One clear gap is whether the suspects were forensically aware, so will have not left any DNA or fingerprints behind - notably in the hotel rooms used.

Dubai police do reportedly have retinal scans (http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1150754.html) of the suspects, presumably taken at the airport.

davidbfpo
02-25-2010, 12:02 AM
A fascinating update from Dubai, picked up by the BBC too; photos of the suspects, the use of an Iowa, USA bank's credit cards and charts on the travel pattern: Dubai link http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100225/NATIONAL/702249835/1133 Note I cannot get the travel charts to download and the BBC link http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/8534303.stm

bourbon
02-25-2010, 01:09 AM
Note I cannot get the travel charts to download and the BBC link http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/8534303.stm
Try right-clicking on the link and selecting "Save Link As", which will download the pdf to your hard drive.

Or see a JPEG of it here (http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/151/dubait.jpg).

Rex Brynen
02-25-2010, 05:48 AM
It remains to be seen how many of the newly-identified suspects are actually operatives (and, for that matter, Israeli operatives).

However, if Dubai police are now circulating their photos, and possible biometric, DNA, fingerprints, and other evidence, Mossad sure compromised a lot of personnel for the purpose of one assassination.

davidbfpo
02-26-2010, 11:32 PM
There is a very long, sometimes confusing and full of interesting points on this murder on:http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2010/02/al-mabhouh_assa.html

Schmedlap
02-27-2010, 01:03 AM
... if Dubai police are now circulating their photos, and possible biometric, DNA, fingerprints, and other evidence, Mossad sure compromised a lot of personnel for the purpose of one assassination.

We don't have any way of knowing if this was simply intended to eliminate one person. There could have been a trove of materials of significant intelligence value on his person (details of arms shipments, banking information for fund transfers, intelligence that would lead to the capture/killing of others like this clown, etc). If the intelligence leads to the death or capture of other high value jerkoffs or to strangling lines of supply to Hamas, then the payoff is far greater than just one KIA.

Schmedlap
02-27-2010, 06:01 PM
Here is the news regarding Iran's recent capture of the leader of Jundullah.


... Rigi, Iran's most wanted fugitive, was seized on Tuesday after Iranian warplanes reportedly forced a flight from Dubai to Kyrgyzstan to land in Iran.
- link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100226/wl_mideast_afp/iranunrestsunniusleader) (emphasis added, for comparison with the next quote - Schmedlap)Now, imagine the outcry if the following changes were made to that quote...


... al Mabhouh, a senior member of Hamas, was seized on Tuesday after Israeli warplanes reportedly forced a flight from Dubai to Lebanon to land in Israel.When considering the prudence of (alleged?) Israeli assassinations, I think it is worth pausing for a moment to understand why Israel thinks that it needs to resort to assassination. It's not like they're going to get much help from their neighbors. I don't hear a lot of cries of anger from Dubai or Kyrgyzstan over military aircraft forcing a jet to land in Iran.

jcustis
02-27-2010, 06:07 PM
A fascinating update from Dubai, picked up by the BBC too; photos of the suspects, the use of an Iowa, USA bank's credit cards and charts on the travel pattern: Dubai link http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100225/NATIONAL/702249835/1133 Note I cannot get the travel charts to download and the BBC link http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/8534303.stm


How did all of these passports come into the possession of law enforcement? Are they scans/photocopies made at the airport?

davidbfpo
02-27-2010, 11:06 PM
Jon,

I expect that Dubai uses the standard passport scanning IT so often seen at airports around the world. IIRC Dubai as an international airline hub is required by the US DHS to have such equipment.

Perhaps others here know more. I am aware that Dubai law enforcement is very IT friendly, well illustrated by the released information so far.

davidbfpo
02-28-2010, 03:55 PM
A different analysis:http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-02-26/mystery-surrounding-an-assassination-in-dubai-deepens/?cid=hp:beastoriginalsL5

I like the point why expose so many operatives?

Rex Brynen
02-28-2010, 05:26 PM
I like the point why expose so many operatives?

I suspect that:

1) Not everyone so far identified is actually Israeli

2) Dubai is IDing (as the article suggests) Israeli operatives who may have passed through for other reasons, either because:


2a) They had already IDed some of these

2b) The hit team left evidence (for example, credit cards all issued by the same small US bank) that allowed Dubai to ID others

2c) There is an element of deterrence/retaliation in Dubai's actions.

Firn
03-04-2010, 09:44 PM
I suspect that:

1) Not everyone so far identified is actually Israeli

2) Dubai is IDing (as the article suggests) Israeli operatives who may have passed through for other reasons,


The IDing should pose no difficulties to the crafty (http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/02/dubai-police-chief-says-he-knows-an-israeli-when-he-sees-one/) Dubai police:


The National, an Abu Dhabi newspaper, reported on Monday that Mr. Tamim “claimed the police could identify Israelis by physical features and the way they speak.”

“It is easy for us to identify [Israelis], through their face or when they speak any other language,” the police chief told the newspaper. “We used to respect them when they would come holding European passports; we regarded them as Europeans and never treated them badly. But from now on, anyone we suspect to have a dual citizenship, they will be treated with great suspicion.” *

Said that, just like many other speakers, almost all Israelis I met had a quite telling accent when speaking English. I don't know if any Mossad agents were among them. :D

But good luck with the physical features :rolleyes:.


Firn

bourbon
03-16-2010, 01:38 PM
How Dubai unraveled a homicide, frame by frame (http://www.latimes.com/news/nation-and-world/la-fg-dubai-investigation14-2010mar14,0,3808056.story), by Borzou Daragahi. Los Angeles Times, March 14, 2010.

A mix of old-fashioned legwork and high-tech razzle-dazzle, scouring hundreds of hours of surveillance videos, helped police home in on suspects in a Hamas man's slaying, blamed on Israel's Mossad.

A Perfectly Framed Assassination (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704479404575087621440351704.html), by Robert Baer. The Wall Street Journal, February 27, 2010.

Stepped-up surveillance technology may be tipping the scales in the cat-and-mouse game between spies and their targets. Robert Baer on the current state of spycraft.

stanleywinthrop
03-16-2010, 02:03 PM
How Dubai unraveled a homicide, frame by frame (http://www.latimes.com/news/nation-and-world/la-fg-dubai-investigation14-2010mar14,0,3808056.story), by Borzou Daragahi. Los Angeles Times, March 14, 2010.


A Perfectly Framed Assassination (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704479404575087621440351704.html), by Robert Baer. The Wall Street Journal, February 27, 2010.

I don't buy the WSJ angle on this. The fact is that all 20 or so supsects got away clean on this. In fact, they were all out of Dubai before the Hamas dude was discovered dead.

Until modern surveillance advances to the point where it can prevent these types of hits, or at least lead to quick captures of suspects, this type of operation remains an option for organizations like the Mossad.

Mossad isn't stupid. They knew that thier team members would be captured on film. They made the conscious decision that it was worth exposing operatives to get this guy. We can argue whether that was a good decision, but trust me it is no suprise to Mossad that these guys pics are being flashed all over the interwebs.

These 20 individuals are now in the process of transforming into Isreali farmers or shopkeepers where they will spend the rest of their lives. Mossad knew they could never be used in an international operation again.

Uboat509
03-16-2010, 02:48 PM
The bottom line on this is that none of us will likely ever know the full story behind this, and even if we did, we would not be able to discuss it in an open forum. They may have decided that it was worth the exposure, or they may have not realized the extent of the surveillance or they may intentionally exposed themselves as a message to their enemies that they will do what they deem necessary to protect the state of Israel. Speculation about it is really kind of pointless since we will never know.


pacifist, I find nothing surprising in your letter, but I do have a prediction: In a few years, the media equation will start to change AND the costs of blindly supporting Israel will accelerate until even the rich and powerful US will have to think twice before spending billions carrying water for Israel all over the world...then, these apparently "normal" views will change.
Dont take my word for it, just be willing to rethink assumptions and look around...you will see that this situation is not tenable forever. It is in the interest of the Israeli people to make a reasonable peace with the Palestinians. Trying to beat and bludgeon their way out of this will not work.

Omar, long before that happens, the Arab nations of the world will have to do something about the perception that these nations are, by and large, populated by people who hate America. As long as that perception exists, Israel will be looked on as our only ally in the region. You can argue about whose fault it is that the perception exists but it does not change the fact of the perception.

bourbon
03-16-2010, 04:04 PM
Until modern surveillance advances to the point where it can prevent these types of hits, or at least lead to quick captures of suspects, this type of operation remains an option for organizations like the Mossad.
The advances will come sooner rather than later; it’s a matter of if, not when. Dubai authorities now have the biometric data of 20+ operatives. It is not implausible that in the short-term future (if not now), that they’ll be able to run that data through years of video and pull up prior activity of operatives. That is going to expose more operatives and sources. Imagine if that info is networked with other countries.


Mossad isn't stupid. They knew that thier team members would be captured on film. They made the conscious decision that it was worth exposing operatives to get this guy. We can argue whether that was a good decision, but trust me it is no suprise to Mossad that these guys pics are being flashed all over the interwebs.
They took the risk potential exposure, yes; but they intended to make it look like a natural death. Being filmed does not matter if the authorities have no reason to go back and look at the tapes.

According to the LA Times article they injected him with succinylcholine which would paralyze him and then ultimately mimic a heart attack (delaying the time of death?). Something must have gone wrong and he was suffocated with a pillow. Coroners probably would have written it off as a heart attack, but they spotted puncture marks and an abnormality in the blood.


These 20 individuals are now in the process of transforming into Isreali farmers or shopkeepers where they will spend the rest of their lives. Mossad knew they could never be used in an international operation again.
Again, they took that risk; but hypothetically speaking if they knew that the direct cost was the exposure of 20 operatives, would it still be worth it?

Kevin23
03-16-2010, 05:06 PM
My question is with all of this though why is the finger only being pointed at Israel so far? Sure they are first suspect to come to mind in a hit on a Palestinian militant organization figure like the guy killed in the case we are talking about. However I feel that everyone speculating on this at large aren't considering other nations or entities being behind the hit like Egypt, Fatah, or someone else, as the fellow who was killed was in the arms business and I'm sure like the Israeli's spokesperson who commented on the Dubai hit after it occurred was that "an arms dealer could have many enemies" not just the Israeli's.

stanleywinthrop
03-17-2010, 02:03 PM
Again, they took that risk; but hypothetically speaking if they knew that the direct cost was the exposure of 20 operatives, would it still be worth it?

I don't know if it was worth it.

The point is that Isreal thought it was worth it.

Rex Brynen
03-23-2010, 09:41 PM
Britain Expels Israel Diplomat Over Fake Passports (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/24/world/middleeast/24dubai.html?ref=global-home)

By JOHN F. BURNS
New York Times
Published: March 23, 2010



LONDON — In a rare move by a friendly government, Britain expelled an Israeli diplomat on Tuesday to rebuke the government of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu for what it says was the fraudulent use of a dozen fake British passports in the assassination of a Hamas official in a Dubai hotel earlier this year.
Related

David Miliband, the British foreign secretary, said there were “compelling reasons” suggesting that Israel was behind the misuse of the British passports and called Israel’s actions “intolerable.”

“The fact that this was done by a friendly country only adds insult to injury,” he said in remarks to the House of Commons. “The actions in this case are completely unacceptable and they must stop.”

davidbfpo
03-23-2010, 11:27 PM
Here are two UK reports on the expulsion of an Israeli diplomat in London:


Britain's relations with Israel sank to new low as Mossad's top agent was expelled from the country over the use of 12 forged British passports in the murder of a Hamas leader in Dubai. Link:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/7507093/David-Miliband-Israeli-cloning-of-British-passports-was-intolerable.html

The BBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8582518.stm

Found elsewhere is an ex-CIA station chief, on Al-Jazeera:
...they are working from an old paradigm which simply is no longer relevant...The point is that in this day and time, with ubiquitous surveillance cameras, the ability to comprehensively analyse patterns of cell phone and credit card use, computerised records of travel documents which can be shared in the blink of an eye, the growing use of biometrics and machine-readable passports, and the ability of governments to share vast amounts of travel and security-related information almost instantaneously, it is virtually impossible for clandestine operatives not to leave behind a vast electronic trail which, if and when there is reason to examine it in detail, will amount to a huge body of evidence.

Tactical and strategic points made; link:http://english.aljazeera.net/focus/2010/03/20103191732842915.html

Seabee
03-29-2010, 10:24 AM
Here is the news regarding Iran's recent capture of the leader of Jundullah.

Now, imagine the outcry if the following changes were made to that quote...

When considering the prudence of (alleged?) Israeli assassinations, I think it is worth pausing for a moment to understand why Israel thinks that it needs to resort to assassination. It's not like they're going to get much help from their neighbors. I don't hear a lot of cries of anger from Dubai or Kyrgyzstan over military aircraft forcing a jet to land in Iran.


Israel has in fact forced a civilian aviation plane to land in the past to take of a passenger. Dont want to do the same thing over and over, it gets to be boring.

Seabee
03-29-2010, 10:38 AM
I think there is another fact to be looked at here...

I imagine most would agree that the bad guys dont think/act rationally.

A Mcdonalds as a symbol for the USA, or recently a German bakery in India :rolleyes:

So, after the event, it is known that Germans, French, Australians etc. Killed the bad guy...

If by some small chance there was a crazy in the ranks of extremists (Could very well be ;-) then there could have been a very good chance that somewhere in the world a German, French or australian tourist could have been made to pay the price.

Of the top of my head, i cannot remember a US passport being used... and there are plenty of older US passports in circulation, and pretty easy to fake..

Now, what nation could mount an operation like this... AND be so reliant on the USA that they would not dare using a US passport?

Anyway, whoever did it took into account and ignored the possibility of retribution against the citizens of the passports used....

Best
Chris

CloseDanger
03-29-2010, 11:25 AM
Ohh yes the PA was involved in this as well. The whole operation was intended to make a statement to multiple actors. "Yes, we did it though we won't tell you that and yes we did it in the daylight. This is how we treat our enemies and we are not afraid to show our real faces".

Rex Brynen
04-02-2010, 03:13 AM
Ohh yes the PA was involved in this as well. The whole operation was intended to make a statement to multiple actors. "Yes, we did it though we won't tell you that and yes we did it in the daylight. This is how we treat our enemies and we are not afraid to show our real faces".

I think that you're right that was the intended messaging.

I'm not sure--in part because of the post-facto efficiency of the Dubai police --that the message has come to be entirely understood that way in the region.

Tukhachevskii
04-02-2010, 02:11 PM
There was a time when Lebanon was the refuge of choice for the more shady types. Has Dubai now captured that niche market? I only ask because the killing of Ramzan Kadyrov's main rival for power (http://www.isn.ethz.ch/isn/Current-Affairs/Security-Watch/Detail/?lng=en&id=92075) in Chechnya Sulim Yamadaev (http://www.jamestown.org/single/?no_cache=1&tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=34878) didn't cause as much of a furore (obviously because MOSSAD/Israel wasn't intimated). Given that the "fugitive" (http://www.jamestown.org/programs/ncw/single/?tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=5101&tx_ttnews%5BbackPid%5D=169&no_cache=1) leader of Russia's Chechen unit (the Vostok Battalion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Battalion_Vostok)) was staying in Dubai (which has a notable community there) can it be reasonably postulated that Dubai now occupies an important "safehaven" for certain groups (thereby replacing Lebanon as the prefered "offshore" destination)?

davidbfpo
06-12-2010, 09:18 PM
A surprising development: BBC link http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia_pacific/10302022.stm and The Daily Telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/poland/7823637/Suspected-Mossad-agent-arrested-over-Dubai-killing.html

Fuchs
06-12-2010, 10:16 PM
I can't believe anyone of them was dumb enough to travel abroad.

Rex Brynen
06-27-2010, 01:40 AM
'Mossad Chief to leave post' (http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=179551)
Jerusalem Post
06/26/2010 00:21


Mossad Chief Meir Dagan is to leave his post in three months, Channel 2 news reported on Friday.

According to the report, Dagan, who has been head of the Mossad for the last eight years, requested to work another year in the role, but was refused.

...

The decision not to renew Dagan's appointment is likely related to the fallout from the recent attempt to assassinate Hamas commander Mahmoud al Mabhouh in Dubai.

...

JMA
06-27-2010, 02:13 AM
I can't believe anyone of them was dumb enough to travel abroad.

Agreed.

Rex Brynen
06-27-2010, 08:02 PM
I can't believe anyone of them was dumb enough to travel abroad.

Mossad isn't a large agency, and you can't replace clandestine operatives quickly. I doubt it is possible for all those identified with the Dubai operation to cancel all international travel for an indefinite period without seriously degrading the organization's effectiveness.

Sloppy tradecraft appears to have played a role here too.

davidbfpo
08-06-2010, 08:27 PM
Bearing in mind the past. From the BBC:
A Polish appeals court has upheld a decision to hand over to Germany an alleged Israeli agent wanted over the murder of a Hamas commander in Dubai.

Link:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-10883014

bourbon
10-15-2010, 11:17 AM
In Global Hunt for Hit Men, Tantalizing Trail Goes Cold (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704652104575493883093318088.html), by Chip Cummins and Alistair MacDonald. The Wall Street Journal, 8 October 2010.

It has been more than eight months since the murder of top Hamas official Mahmoud al-Mabhouh, whose body was found in a Dubai hotel room Jan. 20. Quick work by Dubai police and a diplomatic furor over the use of dozens of forged passports in the case fed early optimism that at least some of the 30-plus suspects would be found. But a string of apparent dead ends has frustrated international investigators, lengthening the odds that anyone will be caught or that definitive proof of Mossad involvement will emerge.

And despite an initial burst of tough talk from various governments, some international investigators are concerned that politics may be hampering cooperation from some governments that support Israel.

JMA
10-20-2010, 08:53 AM
If the US send drones into Pakistan to assassinate Taliban leaders without the permission of the Pakistan government and carries out a unilateral strike into the Sudan (around 1996) and thats OK but if the Israelis take out a sworn enemy in Dubai and it becomes a major international incident.

So what is the message here?

A so-called surgical strike by a missile (which may take out the target and his whole family) is fine but a bunch of assassins using forged passports and leaving no collateral is unacceptable?

What is the essential difference between the button pusher sitting on some Air Force base in the US and the Israeli trigger man in some hotel room in Dubai?

BTW I support both the US and Israeli actions... just can't see why the Israelis are being hung out to dry on this.

Tukhachevskii
10-20-2010, 08:58 AM
If the US send drones into Pakistan to assassinate Taliban leaders without the permission of the Pakistan government and carries out a unilateral strike into the Sudan (around 1996) and thats OK but if the Israelis take out a sworn enemy in Dubai and it becomes a major international incident.

So what is the message here?

A so-called surgical strike by a missile (which may take out the target and his whole family) is fine but a bunch of assassins using forged passports and leaving no collateral is unacceptable?

What is the essential difference between the button pusher sitting on some Air Force base in the US and the Israeli trigger man in some hotel room in Dubai?

BTW I support both the US and Israeli actions... just can't see why the Israelis are being hung out to dry on this.

I surmise that its not so much what they did as how (using fake Foriegn passports and thereby implicating, had investigators not been on the ball, a whole host of countires and/or their citizens potentially landing all concerned in the proverbial manure which in these delicate times would have reverbarations far outwieghing their actual import). Frankly, I too was impressed by the balls on them there Israelis.

davidbfpo
10-20-2010, 09:02 AM
JMA part post:
If the US send drones into Pakistan to assassinate Taliban leaders without the permission of the Pakistan government.

There is a thread on drones - mainly to do with Pakistan and IIRC this point has appeared there. Whatever the Pakistani state says they have give consent, as has been made clear in repeated reports and statements. After all the drones are based at a Pakistani air force base and many suspect that ISI can provide the intelligence that enables a drone strike.

Your wider point why is one state a pariah (no caveats) and another criticised is a good one. Some of the difference is political, some is legal (JMM's field) and IMHO the rest is imagery, wrong word, PR. Dubai had CCTV footage and it was swiftly made available, to run as a global story; drone hits in the FATA may get some footage, but it is not a global story. Especially when Mossad's cloak of skill is deftly removed.

bourbon
10-20-2010, 04:18 PM
What is the essential difference between the button pusher sitting on some Air Force base in the US and the Israeli trigger man in some hotel room in Dubai?

To be clear, the assassination of al-Mabhouh was to appear a natural death. So in the literal sense there was no trigger man. I don’t know if you were using the term euphemistically or not, but it raises another point.

Drone strikes in FATA are, or at least were, a covert operation; that is the sponsorship of the action was cloaked. The Dubai assassination was a clandestine operation in that it sought to cloak the action itself - make it look like a natural death.

However, I do not know the implications, if any, of this distinction.

By essential difference do you mean on the moral level? If so, I would suggest that counter-terrorism is an amoral endeavor.

jmm99
10-20-2010, 05:58 PM
under traditional international law and international humanitarian law.

Under traditional international law, intervention by a nation-state within the territory of another nation-state, without the consent of that state or outside of the exceptions permitted by the Laws of War (LOAC; e.g., hot pursuit or belligerent combatant presence), is a violation of international law; for which, the violated nation-state has remedies ranging from a diplomatic protest to nuclear retaliation.

Under traditional international law, an individual person damaged by such an intervention has no individual rights vs the intervening nation. However, the violated nation-state can, among its other possible remedies, send the intervening nation-state a bill for damages to its nationals. Thus, under traditional international law, the mere fact that an intervention violates traditional international law does not make that intervention a "war crime". That depends on other laws (e.g., international humanitarian law - see next) which may or may be found applicable by the various beholders.

Under international humanitarian law (including treaty, convention and "customary"), which varies greatly as accepted from country to country, individuals are recognized as subjects of international rights. This is a very fluid area of the law which has few definitive answers that are valid and accepted across the international spectrum.

Regards

Mike

JMA
10-20-2010, 08:13 PM
To be clear, the assassination of al-Mabhouh was to appear a natural death. So in the literal sense there was no trigger man. I don’t know if you were using the term euphemistically or not, but it raises another point.

Yes, I should have put the trigger man in inverted commas. OK so it was the "pillow" man. I am just a little surprised Dubai police are looking for 35 people by name. One, why so many needed in the team, and two, how have they been so easily identified? Its all a little bit strange.


Drone strikes in FATA are, or at least were, a covert operation; that is the sponsorship of the action was cloaked. The Dubai assassination was a clandestine operation in that it sought to cloak the action itself - make it look like a natural death.

Actually its worse for the US (not that I mind to be honest) with the guy sitting on some US Air Force base who pushes the button which fires the weapon which takes out the bad guy, his whole family and anyone else close by. At least the Israeli's only held Mahmoud's head into the pillow and counted to 100. No collateral damage.


However, I do not know the implications, if any, of this distinction.

By essential difference do you mean on the moral level? If so, I would suggest that counter-terrorism is an amoral endeavor.

No a legal level. I gave up the moral argument as a twenty year old when I saw examples of the end justifying the means committed in the name of freedom. The Israeli's use of the Old Testament (eye for an eye...) is probably the way to go IMHO.

I suggest that the US is honour bound to come out and state that Dubai was at fault to allow Mahmoud al-Mabhouh to visit Dubai as he would be likely to attract the kind of attention which would be bad PR for Dubai and embarrass the hell out of there security services in the process.

bourbon
10-21-2010, 06:52 PM
Yes, I should have put the trigger man in inverted commas. OK so it was the "pillow" man. I am just a little surprised Dubai police are looking for 35 people by name. One, why so many needed in the team, and two, how have they been so easily identified? Its all a little bit strange.
Bob Baer had an article (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704479404575087621440351704.html) that basically broke down how labor intensive operations like this would be, and how modern surveillance technology has tipped the scales against it. On the identification end of things, with the digital footprints people leave these days, it is amazing what can be done – privacy is essentially dead.


I suggest that the US is honour bound to come out and state that Dubai was at fault to allow Mahmoud al-Mabhouh to visit Dubai as he would be likely to attract the kind of attention which would be bad PR for Dubai and embarrass the hell out of there security services in the process.
The United States should not concern itself with an eye-sticking fight between two tribes of little strategic importance.

Further why would Israel want to punish Dubai? Israel’s economy is dependent on money laundering and the sale of diamonds & weapons; and as such it requires places like Dubai as a safe haven for shady financial dealings.

bourbon
01-13-2011, 05:42 PM
The Dubai Job (http://www.gq.com/news-politics/big-issues/201101/the-dubai-job-mossad-assassination-hamas), by Ronen Bergman. GQ, January 2011.

One year ago, an elite Mossad hit squad traveled to Dubai to kill a high-ranking member of Hamas. They completed the mission, but their covers were blown, and Israel was humiliated by the twenty-seven-minute video of their movements that was posted online for all the world to see. Ronen Bergman reveals the intricate, chilling details of the mission and investigates how Israel's vaunted spy agency did things so spectacularly wrong

The Price of Vanity (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ronen-bergman/the-price-of-vanity_b_806053.html), by Ronen Bergman. The Huffington Post, 7 January 2011.

Israel, notorious for being the country that turned targeted assassinations into an efficient and ruthless war tactic, has always idolized the men and women who serve in its most secretive intelligence units. In the eyes of the Israeli public, they can do no wrong -- and if they do wrong, they should be pardoned.

The embarrassing Dubai scandal did nothing to change that notion. If anything, it gave the Mossad a PR boost.

I must say that while I can often be critical of Israel, I do appreciate their sense of humor. I got a chuckle at this:

During the Purim festival, Israel's equivalent of Halloween, one of the most popular costumes was a tennis player with a gun.

AdamG
01-14-2012, 05:32 PM
A series of CIA memos describes how Israeli Mossad agents posed as American spies to recruit members of the terrorist organization Jundallah to fight their covert war against Iran.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/01/13/false_flag


The CIA took an internal poll not long ago about friendly foreign intelligence agencies. The question, mostly directed to employees of the clandestine service branch, was: Which are the best allies among friendly spy services, in terms of liaison with the CIA, and which are the worst? In other words, who acts like, well, friends?

“Israel came in dead last,” a recently retired CIA official told me the other day.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/spy-talk/2010/09/israeli_spies_pitching_us_musl.html

Bill Moore
01-15-2012, 01:07 AM
Glad to see this topic getting some air time as the election approaches. I'm getting tired of uninformed politicians making claims about how important our relationship with Israel our great ally is, when they should be discussing how dangerous it is and better define that relationship. They can easily drag us into a conflict with these false flag acts. This particular example is the tip of the ice berg.

bourbon
01-16-2012, 04:13 PM
F*@k, those f*@king f*@kers. I am sure American’s have been killed as a result of this.

Bob Baer said Jundallah were uncontrollable, so we cut things off with them. Whackos too focused on blowing themselves up to receive any real outside support and tasking; which makes you wonder what the hell the Israeli’s need them for. It sure as hell undermines our efforts to engage with Iran on anything, which is certainly an indirect benefit - if not the intent of this operation.

With “friends (http://www.christopherketcham.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/Gerald%20Shea%20Memo%20to%20the%209-11%20Commission.pdf)” like Israel, who needs enemies?

Fuchs
01-16-2012, 09:57 PM
With “friends (http://www.christopherketcham.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/Gerald%20Shea%20Memo%20to%20the%209-11%20Commission.pdf)” like Israel, who needs enemies?

Sometimes you get what you deserve.

Ken White
01-16-2012, 10:03 PM
Don't we all... ;)

bourbon
02-25-2013, 08:02 PM
This film looks very good. Six former heads of Shin Bet site down for a The Fog of War style documentary.

http://www.thegatekeepersfilm.com

Trailer Link (http://trailers.apple.com/trailers/sony/thegatekeepers/)


Short Synopsis

For the first time ever, six former heads of Israel’s domestic secret service agency, the Shin Bet, share their insights and reflect publicly on their actions and decisions.

Since the Six Day War in 1967, Israel has failed to transform its crushing military victory into a lasting peace. Throughout that entire period, these heads of the Shin Bet stood at the center of Israel's decision-making process in all matters pertaining to security. They worked closely with every Israeli prime minister, and their assessments and insights had—and continue to have—a profound impact on Israeli policy.

THE GATEKEEPERS offers an exclusive account of the sum of their successes and failures. In the process it sheds light on the controversy surrounding the Occupation in the aftermath of the Six Day War.

bourbon
02-25-2013, 08:06 PM
Israeli ex-security officials largely favor peace (http://bigstory.ap.org/article/israeli-ex-security-officials-largely-favor-peace), by Aron Heller. Associated Press, Feb. 20 2013.

JERUSALEM (AP) — Israel's Academy Award-nominated documentary "The Gatekeepers" has won rave reviews for the candid soul-searching of its chief protagonists — the six living former directors of the country's shadowy domestic spy agency — and their somewhat surprising conclusion: That force has its limits and Israel must ultimately take advantage of its military superiority to seek peace.

It's no surprise, though, in Israel. Top security officials have a long history of favoring dovish political parties and criticizing government policies toward the Palestinians after their retirements. Those who have battled Palestinian violence with the harshest methods possible are oddly those often most amicable to compromise.

Granite_State
02-26-2013, 01:39 AM
Saw it in LA a couple weeks ago, highly recommended. Great interviews with the Shin Bet heads, all of whom are incredibly candid. Some good info in particular about the Rabin assassination and what preceded it. The filmmaker could have been a bit more artful with some of the stuff that brackets the interview, the re-enacted stuff was a little hoky, but that's a minor quibble.

bourbon
02-27-2013, 05:30 PM
Saw it in LA a couple weeks ago, highly recommended. Great interviews with the Shin Bet heads, all of whom are incredibly candid. Some good info in particular about the Rabin assassination and what preceded it. The filmmaker could have been a bit more artful with some of the stuff that brackets the interview, the re-enacted stuff was a little hoky, but that's a minor quibble.
Thanks, that is good to hear. They don't by any chance get into Shin Bet's role in the creation and cultivation of Hamas do they?

ganulv
02-28-2013, 04:56 PM
Director Dror Moreh is going to be the guest on Fresh Air (http://www.npr.org/programs/fresh-air/) today (28 February 2013).

ganulv
03-31-2013, 06:26 PM
I caught The Gatekeepers at a matinée yesterday and much enjoyed it. I would not have minded it being a bit shorter but I did not find it tiresome. And it is not just a collection of talking heads as some reviews have suggested.

parvati
04-01-2013, 04:37 AM
Great documentary. Very talented!!!

They must be connected to Goldman Sachs and the Israel Lobby...what you say?

ganulv
04-01-2013, 05:02 AM
They must be connected to Goldman Sachs and the Israel Lobby...what you say?
FWIW, I do believe I was the only goy in attendance at the showing! ;) There were thirteen of us in the theater for a 1:40 showing in a rural New England town. Not a bad crowd for that kind of film under the circumstances, if you ask me!

I thought the decision to hold off showing any blood and guts visuals until near the end (with the photos from Yahya Ayyash's funeral and the aerial view of the bombed bus full of mangled bodies) had an interesting effect as opposed to showing some of that upfront and letting it set the tone. But Israeli and Palestinian viewers are so inured to that sort of footage that I have to assume it made little difference to them.

TV-PressPass
07-04-2013, 07:12 PM
Ah damn!

This came to my home town, I went and saw it, and I never posted a review here!

I found it immensely interesting. I appreciated that the interviewer was willing to ask tough questions, and definitely put some of the subjects on the spot. It's always tempting to slide past poor choices or failures, but that didn't happen here.

I found the 3D animation pretty enough, but largely unnecessary. There were a few times where "recreated footage" could have been slightly mis-represented as original source footage. It was vague to the viewer, which I'm not a fan of.

Most valuable of all: my girlfriend, who has only the vaguest idea of the middle east and its organizations, was able to watch, follow, and thoroughly enjoy the film.

For her: the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin was a surprise twist.

Overall, its something that I would buy and re-watch. Definitely.

davidbfpo
07-10-2013, 09:31 PM
The Gatekeepers is superb, well worth watching and it is amazing that six Shin Bet (internal security agency) directors agreed to be interviewed on film. Several times being pressed gently, notably over two PLO prisoners being murdered a long time ago.

Yes the reconstruction(s) of incidents, like the murder, are hard to quickly distinguish from actual footage - some of which is grim, notably of blown-up buses in 'The Second Intifda'. The use of overhead imagery, slides, file cards, maps etc is well done, although could be disconcerting - are you watching real images.

Fascinating remarks on the post-1967 Six Day War situation, with 1m Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank to monitor. Conduct a census and obtain a 'richer picture', supplemented by informants and arrests etc.

The morality of Shin Bet, if not Israeli actions is a constant theme. One director starkly stated "There is no morality dealing with terrorism".

The unexpected murder of Prime Minister Rabin by a Jewish extremist was a great institutional shock; the then director resigned and IIRC was replaced by an outsider, a senior naval officer. I'd forgotten the bombing campaign by Jewish extremists; those convicted effectively being released quickly after public and political pressure.

HUMINT was the key factor at the start, but after the Oslo Agreement gave the Palestinians Gaza and much of the West Bank Shin Bet became far more desk-bound watching screens.

At the end several directors admitted Israel was in a far more insecure position, one agreed it was fulfilling a "worst case" prediction as an "occupation state".

TV-PressPass
07-16-2013, 07:21 PM
At the end several directors admitted Israel was in a far more insecure position, one agreed it was fulfilling a "worst case" prediction as an "occupation state".

Most of the directors interviewed seemed eerily willing to admit certain failures and how things had shifted away from what they wanted.

Not common in most western intelligence agencies according to the docs I've seen.

ganulv
07-17-2013, 12:01 PM
Bibi apparently refuses to watch the film (http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.530580) (which may actually mean that he refuses to acknowledge having watched it). Par for the course. :rolleyes:

TheCurmudgeon
08-20-2013, 01:45 AM
I finally had a chance to watch it tonight as my wife, who generally controls the TV, was out for the night.

First, I would say that every 2LT ought to watch it for no other reason than to see how sometimes the military and security forces have to find solutions without clear guidance from the politicians - and those choices can have long range ramifications.

Second, I was reminded at the end of the documentary of one of the culminating lines of the first "War Games". It created a feeling that the War on Terrorism is a lot like Global Thermal Nuclear War - "the only winning move is ... not to play".

TheCurmudgeon
08-20-2013, 06:27 PM
Its also available through Amazon.com

The Gatekeepers (http://www.amazon.com/Gatekeepers-Ami-Ayalon/dp/B00AZMFM3I/ref=sr_1_2?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1377020768&sr=1-2&keywords=the+gatekeepers)

davidbfpo
08-22-2013, 12:04 PM
A remarkable Australian interview with the film's director, with splices of the film (10 mins):
....here's an ABC Radio National interview with the director Dror Moreh, spliced with some footage from the film. Quite remarkable that the film-makers captured all six living directors of Shin Bet calling for peace with the Palestinians....

Hat tip to Lowy Institute:http://www.lowyinterpreter.org/post/2013/08/22/Two-films-about-Israel-and-Palestine.aspx

ganulv
08-31-2013, 03:07 PM
I happened upon a September, 2012, interview of director Dror Moreh by one of my favorite authors, Mark Danner. Good stuff. [LINK (http://www.markdanner.com/articles/show/163)]

uwew
09-03-2013, 08:53 PM
Moreh will publish a book with the text of the interviews and additional material
in Germany in January 2014.

kowalskil
01-27-2014, 12:56 PM
Adolf Eichmann, one of the major organizers of the Holocaust, who was hiding in Argentina, was captured by the Mossad in 1960. How did this happen? This question is answered by Deborah Lipstadt, in her 2011 book "The Eichmann's Trial." The decisive information, she writes, came from three people: Lothar Hermann, a German half-Jew, who fled to Argentina in 1939, his young daughter Sylvia, who did not know about her Jewish origin, and a German Jewish lawyer, Fritz Bauer, who escaped to Sweden, in the 1930's. After the war Bauer returned to Germany and became an attorney general in Frankfurt.

One day Sylvia introduced her new boyfriend, Klaus Eichmann, to her family. Her father suspected he was a son of the famous Nazi criminal. But he decided to keep it to himself, in order to conceal his own Jewish origin. The suspicion was confirmed when he learned that Klaus refused give Sylvia his address, forcing her to correspond with him through a mutual friend. That prompted Hermann to inform the authorities. But Instead of approaching the German embassy in Argentina, where many Nazi sympathizers worked, he wrote to the Frankfurt prosecutor’s office. That how Bauer became involved. He felt that further investigation was warranted. But he was also afraid of Nazi sympathizers in the Adenauer's government.

Supported by the minister-president of Hesse, Bauer decided to inform the Israeli government. Preoccupied with other priorities, Israel's head of security services waited nearly a year before starting the investigation. An agent who was sent to Argentina was asked to visit Hermann. He was surprised to discover that the man was blind. He was inclined to dismiss the entire matter until he spoke with Sylvia. ... The investigation would probably have been abandoned without the active involvement of Bauer, who approach the Israeli Attorney General, Haim Cohen, in 1959. Then things started moving quickly. ...

A team of agents was sent to Argentina and they had no difficulties capturing the criminal. But they were not aware that the Argentinean secret police was also keeping close tabs on Eichmann, at that time. "On the night of the kidnapping, an undercover agent was tailing him. He saw three men grab, subdue and bundle Eichmann into a car. The agents followed the car to the save house where he was held. The secret police was also aware that, a few days before the kidnapping, a contingent of Israelis had arrived in the country and were engaged in some sort of surreptitious activity. Apparently, this much-touted secret action was anything but secret."

Ludwik Kowalski
http://csam.montclair.edu/~kowalski/life/intro.html

Firn
09-13-2014, 01:11 PM
Israel’s Unit 8200 refuseniks: ‘you can’t run from responsibility’ (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/12/israel-unit-8200-refuseniks-transcript-interview)


Did you feel your were violating people’s rights?

N: Definitely. In Israeli intelligence regarding Palestinians, they don’t really have rights. Nobody asks that question. It’s not [like] Israeli citizens, where if you want to gather information about them you need to go to court.

A: The only limitation is the limitation of resources. There’s no procedural questions regarding who can and cannot be surveilled. Everybody is fair game.

N: An 18-year-old soldier who thinks: “We need to gather information on this or that person” – that 18-year-old kid [in Unit 8200] is the one that decides.

A: It is well known that the intelligence is used. People are arrested in the Palestinian territories. Sometimes without trial. And even when they are taken to trial it’s often with evidence that can’t be exposed [in court] because it is classified. And the intelligence is used to apply pressure to people, to make them cooperate with Israel. These are all things that are known.....


A: I should say there are a lot of people who, when they leave the military service they start seeing Palestinians as people not just as sources of information, and getting a bigger picture of what’s happening and a lot of people … there’s very different levels of commitment and enthusiasm in doing the reserve service and a lot of people taper off.

D: It was clear from the beginning we wanted to do everything legally. We went to a lawyer and said we don’t want to commit an offence or say anything not allowed to can you help us figure out what we would be allowed to say.

N: We’re not telling secrets about what we did or the way the unit works. We don’t want to do that. We don’t want to hurt national security, we just want to say what is wrong with the things we did and the unit does.

We want people to know that being in intelligence is not clean, and to control a population of millions you can’t just do counter-terrorism and hurt the people who want to hurt you.It matches some of the issues raised in 'Gatekeepers' and casts another light on the difficult situation of citiziens willing to serve and protect their country but also playing their part in oppressing other:


A: I think we have said that some of the things that the IDF does really does deserve the title defence forces, but there is a significant proportion of what it is doing that does not deserve this title. It’s in the interests of perpetuating a regime that is oppressive. That is not democratic. It is these things we are trying to bring to the attention of Israeli public first and foremost. To create a discussion and think critically about it.

Mods Notice

This thread was created today from five separate threads and renamed. Given the significance of 'The Gatekeepers' documentary in 2013, I have copied most of the relevant posts - nineteen of them - to here.

This thread should be read alongside Watching the IDF (catch all) (http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/showthread.php?t=20224) in particular (ends).

SWJ Blog
11-21-2015, 12:50 AM
Pollard, American Who Spied for Israel, Released From U.S. Prison (http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/pollard-american-who-spied-for-israel-released-from-us-prison)

Entry Excerpt:



--------
Read the full post (http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/pollard-american-who-spied-for-israel-released-from-us-prison) and make any comments at the SWJ Blog (http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog).
This forum is a feed only and is closed to user comments.

davidbfpo
03-19-2016, 11:16 AM
Worth a read and the sub-title:
Head of Mossad who restored its reputation for daring and used terror tactics on Israel's enemies
Link:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/12196869/Meir-Dagan-Israeli-spy-chief-obituary.html

This photo explains much of his motivation
A famous photograph shows his grandfather on his knees before Nazi soldiers shortly before he was killed. Mr Dagan kept the photograph in his office and would show it to foreign visitors as an explanation of his devotion to Israel's security.
Link:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/12196877/Israel-mourns-former-Mossad-spy-chief-Meir-Dagan.html

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03596/grandfather_3596431b.jpg

davidbfpo
04-04-2016, 03:30 PM
An eighteen page paper 'Crucial Warning Goes Unheeded;The Story of a Forgotten Intelligence Episode, October 5, 1973' from the Meir Amit Centre:http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/Data/articles/Art_20839/E_115_16_1371730281.pdf

The author explains why it is important to talk, think and argue:
The great debates about the intelligence failure in the Yom Kippur War have highlighted the episode of the “special means.” Important as it is, it offers no particular lesson for intelligence. Another episode, however, was overshadowed, and many in the intelligence community are not aware of it. Known as the “roebuck item,” it occurred during the afternoon of Friday, October 5, 22 hours before the war broke out. It constituted a crucial warning of a very rare kind. Everything that occurred with regard to this warning reflects very clearly and painfully what happens when the intelligence research is under an “entrenched conception,” and what is likely to happen when there is no ongoing, intensive, intimate intelligence discourse between the intelligence leadership and the top decision-maker.


This event occurred over 40 years ago amid security, political, and technological circumstances that were completely different from those of today. Its lessons, however, are relevant both now and in the future because it concerns the essence of intelligence work, where nothing has yet changed: the mind of the human being and its tendencies. I saw fit, then, to expound on the episode and to try and make it as interesting to readers as possible. For our purposes, readers comprise anyone working in an intelligence capacity, anyone interested in the subject of intelligence, decision-makers, and academics dealing with the intelligence and decision-making field.

davidbfpo
06-20-2016, 10:23 PM
Via an Israeli paper an article based on the public comments of the Military Intelligence chief Maj. Gen. Herzi Halevy:
His speech gave a general overview of the region, but did not reveal any information not previously released by the Israel Defense Forces. He touched on the Syrian civil war, Iran’s nuclear ambitions, Hezbollah in Lebanon, Hamas in Gaza, terror in the West Bank and the Islamic State group.Link:http://www.timesofisrael.com/intelligence-chief-warns-of-growing-gaps-between-israel-neighbors/

davidbfpo
08-11-2017, 04:26 PM
A difficult paper to absorb 'The lack of in-depth understanding about objects researched by the intelligence community' by a former Israeli intelligence officer and author.
Link:http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/Data/articles/Art_21239/E_141_17_55734278.pdf

I expect the theme that a lack of professional understanding, assisted by cultural knowledge and skill in languages, can be found in other threads.

davidbfpo
11-23-2017, 09:50 PM
From Vanity Fair:
During a May 10 meeting in the Oval Office, the president betrayed his intelligence community by leaking the content of a classified, and highly sensitive, Israeli intelligence operation to two high-ranking Russian envoys, Sergey Kislyak and Sergey Lavrov. This is what he told them—and the ramifications.Link:https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/11/trump-intel-slip?

I recall the earlier reporting, this appears to be more detailed. Even devastating.

davidbfpo
01-28-2018, 05:24 PM
Ronen Bergman's new book 'Rise and Kill First: The Secret History of Israel’s Targeted Assassinations' is reviewed in WaPo, the thread title is the review's author's.

A taster:
But at what point does violence in the name of self-defense become an end in itself, so addictive to its practitioners, who in time become so adept at its use, that it undermines the very values it is meant to preserve? This question is the underlying theme of Ronen Bergman’s authoritative and exhaustive history of Israel’s targeted killings of its enemies, which he calls “the most robust streamlined assassination machine in history.”Link:https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/how-israels-secret-services-built-the-most-robust-assassination-machine-in-history/2018/01/26/c7053b34-f7ce-11e7-beb6-c8d48830c54d_story.html?

Link to book:https://www.amazon.com/Rise-Kill-First-Targeted-Assassinations/dp/1400069718/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1517160114&sr=1-1&keywords=ronen+bergman

Targeted assassinations of high value targets (HVT) has appeared on the Forum before, in two main threads, one on OBL and this one:HVTs/Political Assassination (http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/HVTs/Political Assassination) Whether this policy has actually benefited Israel is a moot point.

AdamG
01-31-2018, 09:13 PM
Ronen Bergman says that while Israel's shootings, poisonings, bombings and drone strikes against its perceived enemies were "tactical successes," they were also diplomatically harmful.
NPR Interview
https://www.npr.org/2018/01/31/582099085/journalist-details-israels-secret-history-of-targeted-assassinations

See also
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrGoWza1IfA

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/31/books/review-rise-and-kill-first-israel-assassinations-ronen-bergman.html

davidbfpo
04-30-2018, 05:52 PM
Following the suspected assassination in Malaysia of a Hamas scientist Al-Jazeera has a story that links Ronen Bergman's book 'Rise and Kill First: The Secret History of Israel’s Targeted Assassinations' to the murder.

Included here to show the scale of Israel's policy:
Bergman writes that, until 2000, which marked the beginning of the second Intifada in the occupied Palestinian territories, Israel had conducted more than 500 assassination operations that resulted in the deaths of more than 1,000 people, including the targets and bystanders. During the Second Intifada, Israel conducted 1,000 more operations, of which 168 succeeded, he writes in his book. Since then, Israel has carried out at least another 800 operations aimed at killing Hamas civilian and military leaders in the Gaza Strip and abroad.

Link:https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/04/mossad-carries-assassinations-180422152144736.html

The article also refers to other matters, e.g. the policy machinery that supports such a policy in Israel and the USA.

davidbfpo
06-18-2018, 04:36 PM
A short BBC News item that is self-explanatory and interesting to note Mr Segev was extradited form Equatorial Guinea, not Nigeria where he had been practicing. In the past Israel had good relations with Nigeria.
Link:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-44520850

davidbfpo
07-15-2018, 07:07 PM
An officially assisted Mossad burglary story in the NYT, although the documents may show that Iran had ceased nuclear weapon developments.
Link:https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/15/us/politics/iran-israel-mossad-nuclear.html

davidbfpo
08-22-2018, 03:01 PM
Cross-posted on the intelligence analysis thread. Note this is a free, online book (222 pgs) and not read here yet.:(

An offering from an ex-IDF officer via the ITIC and the recommendation is byMajor General Herzi Halevi, Chief of Defense Intelligence:
Itai Brun’s book deals with intelligence analysis – the process in which knowledge about the enemy and the environment is developed to serve decision-making in the fields of policy design, operational planning and force build up. Among other things, the book relates to the nature of intelligence analysis, the analysis methodology, the role of intelligence analysis in combat, and the impact of the information revolution on the analysis practice.

Having known him for many years, both as a commander and an intelligence officer, Itai’s skill at describing and explaining complex reality has always stood out. In his book, he provides up-to-date insight into the methodology and philosophy of intelligence analysis, an area hardly broached let alone written about. Brun presents his own experience and the best practices of the entire Israeli intelligence community, and he does so, as always, in a clear and concise manner.
Link:https://www.terrorism-info.org.il/en/intelligence-analysis-understanding-reality-era-dramatic-changes/

Bill Moore
09-01-2018, 08:40 PM
https://www.amazon.com/Rise-Kill-First-Targeted-Assassinations/dp/1400069718/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

Rise and Kill First: The Secret History of Israel’s Targeted Assassinations
By Ronen Bergman, 2018

This book has been discussed in cursory manner in other threads, but I still wanted to provide my take after finishing it.

Former CIA officer Robert Baer’s stated this book is hands down the best book I’ve read on intelligence, Israel, and for that matter the Middle East. Impeccably sourced and astoundingly well reported, this book is indispensable for understanding Israel’s fight for survival, with a revelation on every page.
I couldn’t say it better, so why try. The only thing I would add is it also a textbook on risk informed decision making and strategy with numerous examples of failures and successes. Perhaps needless to say, it is a also a great historic text on modern Israel. The range of operations covered disrupting Egypt’s advanced missile program in the 1960s by targeting the German scientists who were supporting it, targeting the PLO and other Palestinian terrorist groups to include HAMAS and PIJ, the war against Iran and its proxy Hezbollah, Syria, and numerous other events all covered in exacting detail on why certain decisions were made, and in many cases a detailed account of the operation itself. Throughout the book there are several lessons for both intelligence operatives and special operations personnel. It should be considered mandatory professional reading in some of these circles.

While Israel conducted assassination missions in hostile countries prior to the 1972 Munich Olympic Games attack on the Israeli athletes, it was the 1972 Black September terrorist attack that was the game changer. Even prior to this attack Israel would inform European countries such as France of impending terrorist attacks on Israelis in their country, and they refused to do anything about it. When the Israeli athletes were taken hostage, the Israelis immediately began planning a rescue operation but were denied entry into Germany. Two Israeli operatives sent to Germany to provide counsel to the Germans were rebuffed. They alongside as they watched the slaughter and the Germans failed to do anything until the hostages and terrorists arrived at the airport. The German rescue operation was poorly planned and executed and all advice from the Israelis was rejected. “Zamir asked the Germans why there was no force storming the terrorists. He was told that the police were waiting for armored vehicles that were stuck in traffic . . . they did not make even a minimal effort to save lives, or take minimal risks to rescue people—neither or people nor their own. . . A wounded crewman has crawled two hundred meters. He crawled on all fours, wounded, and no one made an effort to rescue him.”

“Once again Jews were slaughtered on German soil as the rest of the world continued with business as usual, as if nothing has happened.” Black September considered the operation a major success, it was like painting the name Palestine on a mountaintop visible around the globe. “If the Europeans wouldn’t even try to stop terrorists on their own soil, Meir and her cabinet decided, the Mossad would be given the green light to do so. On Sep 11, the cabinet authorized the prime minister to approve targets even in friendly countries, without notifying local authorities.” After that the intelligence services produced numerous Red Pages, the document submitted to the prime minister requesting authority to kill a target.

Moving into the future, when Israel targeted Palestinians and Hezbollah in Lebanon, one Mossad officer said, “with Sharon’s backing terrible things were done. I’m no vegetarian, and I supported and even participated in some assassination operations. But we are speaking here about mass killing for killing’s sake, to sow chaos and alarm, among civilians too. Since when do we send donkeys carrying bombs to blow up marketplaces?” Another operative said, “we were teaching the Lebanese how effective a car bomb could be. Everything we saw with Hezbollah sprang from what they saw had happened after these operations.”

This was a recurring theme throughout the book. Many of the operations were over reactions to terrorist attacks, exactly what the terrorist hopes to provoke to mobilize more support for their cause. To be fair, Israel failed to act out of fear of harming innocents and escalating in many cases, and at times this failed. The terrorist they failed to assassinate went on to murder many more Israeli citizens. There will always be a degree of uncertainty on the second and third order effects from operations conducted and not conducted. The decision making was explained in detail in many cases, and it is hard to find fault in most decisions made regarding targeted assassinations. Operations approved by Sharon on the other hand were often atrocities and acts of war that only made the situation worse.

Countering adversary nuclear programs was major topic throughout the book. Israel even conducted a sabotage operation in France (described in detail) where they used explosives to destroy nuclear reactor machines that took over two years to produce. These were intended to go to Iraq. Immediately following the attack, an alleged spokesman for Groupe des Ecologistes Francais telephoned a local paper to claim responsibility, but French intelligence correctly suspected Israel was behind the operation. Israel also authorized the assassination of scientists supporting Iraq’s nuclear weapon program. Many died from poisoning, and others received threatening letters resulting in panic throughout the community. Mossad informed the prime minister these actions would not stop the program, only delay it. The only way to stop it was from the air, which was an act of war. After the aerial bombing, Saddam became more determined and the $400 million project became a $10 billion project and 400 scientists became seven thousand. Israel only uncovered pieces of this large operation and disrupted what they could.

Sharon was increasingly disappointed how risk adverse Mossad became in recent years, so he appointed Dagan to be the director in 2002 to reform the organization. Dagan was hyper aggressive, but not careless. His first order of business was to fix the culture of the Mossad. He started with its case officer section. Dagan described it as a “complete system of falsehood, which deceives itself and feeds itself lies” to convince everyone of its success. For example, they recruit some guy who serves tea in some office near a nuclear facility and claim they have someone inside the Iranian atom project.

Once Dagan put Mossad on effective war footing, he narrowed its mission to two broad targets. One was any hostile country attempting to attain a nuclear weapon. Importation of equipment would be disrupted, facilities seriously sabotaged, and nuclear scientists co-opted, harassed, and if necessary killed. The second target was the Radical Front consisting of Iran, Syria, and their network of proxies, most notably Hezbollah. There was no plans for all out war with Iran or Syria, but the Mossad would target their supply lines.

For Iran, Israel thought through three options: all out war, regime change, or convince the leadership the cost of having a bomb outweighed the benefit. The third option was the only feasible one. Dagan realized their interests intersected with many Arab states who also feared Iran obtaining a nuclear weapon. He ordered the Mossad to ramp up its liaison with various Arab countries, and then directed a range of overt and covert activity to impose costs upon Iran, to include targeted killing of their nuclear scientists. For the killings in Iran, all of them were conducted by Iranian opposition forces.

It would take up multiple pages to replicate the tactics used to assassinate Israel’s enemies, they ranged from raids, sniper attacks, poisoning, car bombs, telephone bombs, explosive letters, etc. While mistakes were made in early operations, lessons were learnt the level of sophistication sky rocketed. Except for Sharon directed operations, most operations went out of their way to avoid harm to innocent bystanders. In at least two cases described in the book, the targets were valid, but they backfired strategically because of where they were targeted, and the Mossad took short cuts in their tradecraft based on the narrow window of opportunity to execute the target. In these cases, the Mossad was exposed and it resulted in serious damage to diplomatic relationships. I won't pass judgment, Israel is fighting for its survival, the Palestinians are fighting for a homeland, and number of external actors are supporting terrorism and hope to destroy Israel. While the measures Israel takes to defend itself may at times seem extreme, when we faced an existential threat we fired bombed cities and dropped atomic bombs. I realize when you kill one it is a tragedy and when you kill thousands it is a statistic, but something we should keep in mind before passing judgment.

AdamG
10-29-2018, 01:59 PM
Consider this part of the Palestinian terrorist “work accident” series.

A “work accident” is a commonly used term to refer to Palestinian terrorists who die by their own hand when explosives or explosive devices they are handling detonate prematurely. We have covered many such incidents.


Senior Hamas terrorist Imad al-Alami *accidentally* shoots himself in the head
Hamas explosives chief accidentally blows himself up
Palestinian rocket commander ‘accidentally’ blows himself up
Hamas terrorist killed when attack tunnel collapses on him
Gaza: Two PFLP terrorists killed when rocket they were firing exploded prematurely
Hamas Bomb Expert Blows Himself Up
We appear to have another member of the club, during Hamas-led attempts to breach the Gaza border.

These border attacks began last spring under the name of the “Great March of Return.” From the start, these were not mere protests, but military-style attempts to tear down the border fence, with minors often put out front for the cameras. Huge tire fires were set to create a smokescreen.

https://legalinsurrection.com/2018/10/hamas-commander-killed-at-gaza-border-when-hand-grenade-exploded-prematurely/

davidbfpo
11-14-2018, 09:15 PM
A review of Bergman's book by an Indian intelligence professional; it is sub-titled:
This is no starry-eyed study of Mossad’s acumen in assassinations, but a catalogue of its horrible bunglings and politically naive judgements too.

(He ends with) Israel Intelligence Community’s rec#ord “has been one of a long string of tactical successes”, says Bergman, “but also disastrous strategic failures”.
Link:https://www.outlookindia.com/magazine/story/caesarias-misdirected-stabs/300850