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View Full Version : Suspicions confirmed? Perhaps...



Ken White
07-31-2008, 04:47 PM
My belief has long been that the so-called Dayton Accords were a set up job by Wesley Clark and Richard Holbrook with a self serving quick fix in mind by two people who probably outsmarted themselves (neither for the first or last time...) -- and with no heed to long term US interests.

This LINK (http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/karadzic-alleges-deal-with-us/2008/08/01/1217097442331.html) might provide an insight to some interesting news over the next few months. We'll see...

Hacksaw
07-31-2008, 05:38 PM
Ken,

It would certainly be foolhardy to dismiss his claim without due dilligence, but this also reminds me of the NBA Ref (Tim Dunaghee sic) who alleged the NBA HQ influenced refs to help LA win a Western Conference Championship Game (game 6) against Sacramento. A compelling story/narrative after the fact, the performance of refs was questioned.

Not saying US is above making deals with unsavory people for the sake of expedience (perceived greater good) - we've been there and done that. Then again, always easier to build a compelling story/narrative after the fact weaving truth to provide credability to a false story.

That said, i can't imagine Holbrooke is so stupid as to leave fingerprints on something like this and he will win a he said - he said situation.

Unfortunately, I've experienced that the more senior people violate the basic principles that I used as a focal point for counseling new LTs as they in-processed.

1. You are here to learn, listen to NCOs - presume they know what they are talking about until proven otherwise

2. Don't assume they guy before you was a dumbass, fall in on SOP and adopt until you know enough to make an informed decision.

3. Most importantly - you are the moral arbiter of your platoon. Your job is to choose the tough right over the easy wrong - this rule takes precedence over the first two.



Live well and row

Rex Brynen
07-31-2008, 05:46 PM
Well, leaving aside the overall wisdom of the arrangement agreed/imposed at Dayton, it would hardly be the first time that large-scale human rights abusers have been given some form of amnesty (out of political necessity), only to see it eroded later (when it was politically feasible to prosecute).

Much the same could be seen in Chile, Argentina, Cambodia, and elsewhere. It is often a rather clever approach, satisfying both the short term imperative for political stabilization and transition with the long term need for justice.

Tom Odom
07-31-2008, 05:52 PM
Interesting that my former boss in the Pentagon made SES as part of that an ultimately Ambassador.

Tom

Ken White
07-31-2008, 06:33 PM
...Not saying US is above making deals with unsavory people for the sake of expedience (perceived greater good) - we've been there and done that. Then again, always easier to build a compelling story/narrative after the fact weaving truth to provide credability to a false story.Thus my wait and see altitude...
That said, i can't imagine Holbrooke is so stupid as to leave fingerprints on something like this and he will win a he said - he said situation.That I can agree with -- while pointing out that such a 'win' does not prove lack of culpability. Given the actors on all sides of that sad bit of history, the probability of wrongdoing (multiple type) and not paying for same is, I think, quite high on many levlels.
Unfortunately, I've experienced that the more senior people violate the basic principles that I used as a focal point for counseling new LTs as they in-processed.Yeah, I've noticed that also... :(

Stan
07-31-2008, 06:54 PM
Interesting that my former boss in the Pentagon made SES as part of that an ultimately Ambassador.

Tom

Well, we've seen almost all of it (I used to think)...


In 1998 President Bill Clinton nominated Mr Holbrooke as the next US ambassador to the United Nations but it took the Senate 14 months to confirm him in this job.

Mr Holbrooke says he has no moral qualms about "negotiating with people who do immoral things".

"And so I make no apologies for negotiating with Milosevic and even worse people, provided one doesn't lose one's point of view." :wry:

Ken White
07-31-2008, 06:58 PM
...It is often a rather clever approach, satisfying both the short term imperative for political stabilization and transition with the long term need for justice.that a clever approach often does the Petard hoisting thing. Most backfire eventually. Reminds me of the old saw; "There's never enough time to do it right but always enough time to do it over."

Noting that someone's imperatives frequently are not really that important and generally do not equal a benefit for most. Add to that that doing it over is almost universally more expensive in every respect and that the time lost between iterations frequently means opportunities lost... :rolleyes:

Yes, I know, reality intrudes -- but always a realist, I used to also think I was clever and could and do clever things. Most of 'em blew up in my face so I learned to quit that foolishness. :wry:

Dayton was yet another example, I think, of expediency and egos ignoring common sense. We'll see what turns up.

Ken White
07-31-2008, 07:08 PM
Well, we've seen almost all of it (I used to think)...

:wry:the dumbest thing in the world and would then find out that people could invent dumber ones really quickly and easily; now I just watch, shake my head and grin as ever more trundle down the pike... :wry:

One of the bad gigs about being an old NCO is that you get to the point where you can look at a guy for the first time and in five seconds pretty well judge his net worth as a hooman bean plus his general honesty and testicular fortitude. You get one wrong every now and then but mostly, you can look and know. Not conducive to a great deal of faith in mankind, makes you old before your time. :D