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Jedburgh
05-03-2006, 03:06 AM
Gangs Claim Their Turf in Iraq (http://www.arthurmag.com/magpie/?p=1308)

The Gangster Disciples, Latin Kings and Vice Lords were born decades ago in Chicago's most violent neighborhoods. Now, their gang graffiti is showing up 6,400 miles away in one of the world's most dangerous neighborhoods -- Iraq.

Armored vehicles, concrete barricades and bathroom walls all have served as canvasses for their spray-painted gang art. At Camp Cedar II, about 185 miles southeast of Baghdad, a guard shack was recently defaced with "GDN" for Gangster Disciple Nation, along with the gang's six-pointed star and the word "Chitown," a soldier who photographed it said.

Of paramount concern is whether gang-affiliated soldiers' training will make them deadly urban warriors when they return to civilian life and if some are using their access to military equipment to supply gangs at home, said Barfield and other experts...

'Lowering our standards'

...Barfield said Army recruiters eager to meet their goals have been overlooking applicants' gang tattoos and getting waivers for criminal backgrounds. "We're lowering our standards," Barfield said. "A friend of mine is a recruiter," he said. "They are being told less than five tattoos is not an issue. More than five, you do a waiver saying it's not gang-related. You'll see soldiers with a six-pointed star with GD [Gangster Disciples] on the right forearm."....

Learning urban warfare

..."The Gangster Disciples are the most worrisome street gang at Fort Lewis because they are the most organized, Barfield said. Barfield said gangs are encouraging their members to join the military to learn urban warfare techniques they can teach when they go back to their neighborhoods. "Gang members are telling us in the interviews that their gang is putting them in," he said...

Jedburgh
02-04-2007, 08:21 PM
Two FOUO assessments of gang activity in the US Army have been uploaded to BCKS (AKO log-in required):

The National Gang Intelligence Center, 17 Jan 07, Gang Activity in the US Armed Forces Increasing (https://forums.bcks.army.mil/secure/GetAttachment.aspx?id=323828&pname=file&aid=25955)

This assessment explores the prevalence of US-based street gang members serving in the US military. Data for the report was obtained from FBI information, open-source documents, and from multiple law enforcement sources.
US Army CID, 1 Dec 06, Gang Activity Threat Assessment FY06 (https://forums.bcks.army.mil/secure/GetAttachment.aspx?id=313015&pname=File&aid=24974)

On 23 August 2005 the Chief of Staff of the Army tasked CID to conduct an assessment of gang activity in the US Army. An initial assessment was provided 30 September 2005, and a six-month follow-up was provided in June 2006. US Army CID continues to monitor, collect and assess gang activity in or affecting the US Army.

Bill Moore
02-04-2007, 11:02 PM
My main concern isn't that these guys will come back better trained, gangs have infiltrated the military for years to get training. My biggest concern is that these gangs will network with Iraqi criminal gangs or worse, which would extend the Iraqi terrorist/criminal network right into our back yard. We're still suffering from Rumfield's decisions, and lowering the recruiting standards is going to hurt us in ways we never saw coming.

Jedburgh
02-04-2007, 11:46 PM
Gangs have without a doubt had a long presence in the military - I could dredge up a laundry list of incidents that occurred during my years at Bragg, and not a few from Germany. However, I disagree with the dismissal of the potential negative effects of current training/experience for two reasons; first (and most importantly), the nature of the COE provides them with a greater spectrum of skills applicable to their home turf than did service in the pre-OEF/OIF Army. Second, the sophistication of many street gangs has evolved significantly in response to increased LE focus in recent years. This feeds right back into point number one.

Finally, in my personal opinion, I believe the potential for the homies to engage in operational networking with the bad guys we face in Iraq is minimal at best. Yes, soldiers with street gang ties/backgrounds never had a problem historically in linking up with indig criminal and smuggling networks in OCONUS garrison environments (i.e. Germany, Korea, Panama) - but that is a very different situation.

Bill Moore
02-05-2007, 05:21 AM
I'm not disregarding the training, rather I accept it as fact. However, the "new" and perhaps greater strategic threat to our security is that these gangs will network with Iraqi criminals (with ties to terrorists), and establish links that facilitate smuggling weapons and personnel into the U.S. from the Middle East (that is just one scenario).

I'm not gang members are going to convert to radical Islam and take up the Jihad, but rather that a low life will do business with the devil, and now we're putting the low life and the devil on the same city block.

There have already been suspected links between a street gang in Chicago and Libya. I know if I wanted to recruit to assets in another country to undermine their security, I would definitely consider their criminal elements. We already know that Mexican crime organizations are smuggling Middle Eastern personnel across the border for a rather expensive fee, again it is just business.

If you expand the notion of gang to include hate groups like the Aryan Nation, well we know they have known ties to the Hizbollah and who knows who else. Shortly after the 9/11 attacks the Aryan Nation website stated you're either with us and Bin Laden or against us. They had a picture of the plane crashing into the WTC and a bunch of garbage about Jews ruling the world. These punks end up in our ranks also for the same reason, to get training, and they have already expressed solidarity with the terrorists in spirit (anti-semetic) if not in deed.

We have to shake our old perceptions and wake up to today's reality, which is that there is an expanding network of trouble makers based on a variety of motivations and opportunities, all enabled by modern communications technology and globalism. Are we socially programed to detect a white male in business atire as a potential threat? If he is taking notes in an airport we would disregard it, yet someone else doing that would be reported for casing. Yet the uncomfortable realit is that sosphicated hate groups (yes their low lying fruit are a bunch of stupid, fat rednecks, but they have smart folks in the organization) can facilitate a ME terrorist attack on our soil, and they could justify it in their minds.

In summary, yes gang members are joining the service to get training. The gangs today are not are the gangs we knew in the 80s. Some gangs (I'm calling the Aryan Nation a gang) already have contacts with ME terrorists based on ideological agreements on certain items. Some gangs could form links with terrorists based on criminal interests (oppurtunity). Putting them on the same city block increases the risk.

Science fiction? I don't think so.

sgmgrumpy
02-05-2007, 09:22 PM
"Drugs and Crime Gang Profiles" obtained under FOIA from the National Drug Intelligence Center. All are marked "Limited Official Use -- Law Enforcement Sensitive."

http://cryptome.org/13gangs.htm

slapout9
02-06-2007, 12:59 AM
1-This is a link to the Intelligence report which is put out by the Southern Poverty Law center. I don't like the politics of the group in general but their reports are highly accurate and scary. Look at the map of hate groups by state!

here is the link.
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intpro.jsp

2-Bill Moore welcome back Bill. You make a good point about the Fat Redneck and gangs. Some hate groups are screening people like this out because they draw to much attention, the new model is David Duke. Short hair, well dressed, polite, and still full of the same lies! He is just getting better at suckering people in.

3-Tonight on Anderson Cooper 360 is the story of a former Hell's Angel that turned informant for the FBI. Now the Angel's are trying to kill him, big shock uh:confused: Should be a good story.

Stan
02-06-2007, 08:25 AM
In summary, yes gang members are joining the service to get training. The gangs today are not are the gangs we knew in the 80s. Some gangs (I'm calling the Aryan Nation a gang) already have contacts with ME terrorists based on ideological agreements on certain items. Some gangs could form links with terrorists based on criminal interests (oppurtunity). Putting them on the same city block increases the risk. Science fiction? I don't think so.


3-Tonight on Anderson Cooper 360 is the story of a former Hell's Angel that turned informant for the FBI. Now the Angel's are trying to kill him, big shock uh Should be a good story.


We are the people our parents warned us about
Slogan by Don Chambers, 1966

Scandinavia and to some extent the Baltics had severe problems with turf wars between the Bandidos (formed in 1966, Houston, TX) and Hell's Angels. The war eventually got serious when a Bandido member began employing Russian-made anti-aircraft weapons. The Estonian Criminal Police would later receive information for border control (Estonia was considered a potential transit point for Russian military weapons), that the Bandido was in fact an American trained in 1976 on various anti-aircraft weapons at Ft. Bliss, TX.

sgmgrumpy
02-06-2007, 01:40 PM
Slapout, Good link.

Here are some others I have collected.
I would be interested in any other urls you may have on EGs or gangs.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Preparing for the SHOOTING Culture War
http://rivrdog.typepad.com/paratus/2006/05/preparing_for_t.html

The basic premise of this post is that there WILL be a "hot" civil war in this nation, and it will be a Culture War.

Interlinked with NBPP
http://www.thetalkingdrum.com/index.htm

Very informative site
http://www.dc.state.fl.us/pub/gangs/index.html

Watchdog site
http://militia-watchdog.org/

Militias
http://www.rickross.com/groups/militia.html


kumbia-kings (gang forum)
http://www.topix.net/forum/who/kumbia-kings

tequila
02-06-2007, 02:39 PM
That "Rivrdog" post made me laugh out loud. Good to know that the paranoid psychos among us are still as nutty as ever.

sgmgrumpy
02-06-2007, 02:50 PM
Yeah, that guy is definetely not all there.

Possible he was the guy they arrested few weeks back with 238 weapons and 50,000 rounds of ammo in his house. :D

What's most scary is knowing alot more of these ERWs that don't come out and post on the internet

120mm
02-06-2007, 03:13 PM
What? I don't remember being arrested!!!:mad:

I must've had my brain wiped after the flying saucers inserted that anal probe and before I started wearing my tinfoil hat while I slept....:eek:

My wife keeps telling me I own too many guns. :o

Bill Moore
02-06-2007, 05:31 PM
While I agree this site was humorous, it obviously isn't met to be. I looked through some of the links on vehicle preparation, weapons, etc. and I'm not concerned about any of the low value TTP he/she is spreading, but none the less this site points to a relatively new phenomen, which is internet based networks of like thinking folks. In general (just like the extreme right and the extreme left) folks with strong points of view do not pursue the internet looking for counterpoints (and the truth in the middle), but simply search for information that supports their current point of view. This is a downside of blogging, because they're about as balanced as FOX entertainment, oh I mean so called news. In many respects the ability to select information you want and the angle you want it presented in is dumbing down society.

I don't want to change the discussion from gangs in the military because it is very important, so I will shift this discussion to another location, but I think Blogs and certain websites are a means (intentional and unintentional) to prepare the battlefield psychologically. They shape perceptions in a select audience (many in the audience simply opt in, you don't even have to reach out to them, and you put links on your site that link to like minded sites), then when there is an event such as the Waco Assualt, it can quickly be spun into a catalyst that leads to action such as Tim McVeigh's attack on Federal Building (lone wolf or small group, still TBD), or even mass action (anti-globalism rallies). I'll clean up my thoughts on this and post it in the appropriate link, but this isn't completely unrelated to gangs (and gang like entities), because we are addressing a method of recruiting for the gangs of the future.

Jedburgh
02-10-2007, 04:55 AM
...I don't want to change the discussion from gangs in the military because it is very important, so I will shift this discussion to another location, but I think Blogs and certain websites are a means (intentional and unintentional) to prepare the battlefield psychologically. They shape perceptions in a select audience (many in the audience simply opt in, you don't even have to reach out to them, and you put links on your site that link to like minded sites), then when there is an event such as the Waco Assualt, it can quickly be spun into a catalyst that leads to action such as Tim McVeigh's attack on Federal Building (lone wolf or small group, still TBD), or even mass action (anti-globalism rallies). I'll clean up my thoughts on this and post it in the appropriate link, but this isn't completely unrelated to gangs (and gang like entities), because we are addressing a method of recruiting for the gangs of the future.
Bill, I think the direction you're going here is very much related to gangs, white supremacists, OMGs, and other radical organizations. Blogs, message forums (in formats such as SWC as well as others), IRC, and other methods of net communications have become a key node in recruiting, networking and operations of these groups. Not in the future - now.

For example, there exist Norteno and Sureno message forums that serve as a virtual meeting place for affiliates not just in CA, but permit those who have moved throughout the country - and outside it - to keep in touch with the heartbeat of the lifestyle, no matter how far removed physically they may be. Much of the discussion may be nonsense about girls, cars, music and petty incitements to violence....but that shifts into drugs, real conflicts with rival gangs, and to bits and pieces of key tactical detail.

Monitoring this broad spectrum of virtual networking capabilities is labor-intensive, and can be very tedious and frustrating. Separating the wheat from the chaff, and putting together linkages - or simply identifying those golden nuggets of "actionable" intelligence is a truly demanding task. One useful tool I will mention here is a cheap software download: Copernic Tracker (http://www.copernic.com/en/products/tracker/). The damn thing is almost idiot proof, its so easy to set up and use. And once you load in the web sites you need to monitor, it ends up being a tremendous time saver - although it reduces the tedious work of sifting through the material, it doesn't eliminate it. If you are engaged in OSINT monitoring of that nature, I highly recommend it (there is a 30 day free test-drive). Copernic was originally recommended to me by a contact at Jane's.

sgmgrumpy
02-10-2007, 10:47 AM
Some links are already inactive (for obvious reasons). Still a good on line source for most the WSGs.

The January 15, 2007 release of the Hate Directory

http://www.bcpl.net/~rfrankli/hatedir.pdf

Bill Moore
02-11-2007, 02:39 AM
Now for some more depressing news on undesired networks based on perceived historical ties and common interests such as killing Jews and destroying the U.S. government. After you review these these links, let me know if you still disagree with my comments in first post on this thread.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/07/washington/07recruit.html?ex=1309924800&en=18e0e7dce2b8c8d3&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss


"They're communicating with each other about weapons, about recruiting, about keeping their identities secret, about organizing within the military," he said. "Several of these individuals have since been deployed to combat missions in Iraq."

"Light infantry is your branch of choice because the coming race war and the ethnic cleansing to follow will be very much an infantryman's war," he wrote. "It will be house-to-house, neighborhood-by-neighborhood until your town or city is cleared and the alien races are driven into the countryside where they can be hunted down and 'cleansed.' "

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/03/29/schuster.column/index.html


"I don't believe that they were the ones that attacked us," Kreis said. "And even if they did, even if you say they did, I don't care!"

Kreis wants to make common cause with al Qaeda because, he says, they share the same enemies: Jews and the American government.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/005303.php


I send a message of thanks and well-wishes to the methods and works of groups on the Islamic front against the jew such as Al-Qaeda and Sheik Usama Bin Ladin, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah and to all Jihadis worldwide who fight for the glory of the Khilafah and the downfall of the anti-life and anti-freedom System prevalent on this earth today.

Kreis continues by saying (sic), " I ask our Islamic fellow fighters against jewry to remember the co-operation between Mufti Haj Mohammad Amin al-Husseini and Reichsfuhrer Heinrich Himmler during the last century and to remember that all that is of the past it is our duty to surpass!"

Jedburgh
02-11-2007, 03:45 AM
Bill, I still disagree with your premise that the Iraq theater provides any sort of significant opportunity for any of these dirtbags to establish functional operational linkages with the terrorists. For the terrorists, it is much simpler, and operationally more secure, to establish those links domestically - with the homies and bubbas on US soil. I hold to my opinion that the greater danger from those who have managed to get into uniform is from the training and experience they receive - and the odds of it bursting forth bloodily and very publicly here at home keep narrowing.

However, I will qualify all that by saying that I do recognize the threat that the white supremacists, such as Aryan Nations, pose domestically. But from a LE perspective, these guys are easier to monitor than are the more widely dispersed sophisticated street gangs. This isn't to say that they are under control - their beliefs and operational intent pose a clear danger - but LE clearly sees that danger and has focused assets on the problem.

The rapidly expanding problem of transnational hispanic gangs has also received increased attention lately, as evidenced by the recent announcement of the establishment of a Transnational Anti-Gang Unit (http://www.usdoj.gov/ag/speeches/2007/ag_speech_070205.html) in close cooperation with El Salvador.

Of course, all this comes back to our root problem in the military: the lowering of recruiting standards, combined with all the negative actions that come out of the intense pressure put upon recruiters, is unquestionably resulting in increased numbers of gang members of all stripes in the armed forces.

slapout9
02-11-2007, 02:42 PM
For your listening pleasure and cultural enhancement.;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD3K_w3t70A

Merv Benson
02-11-2007, 04:27 PM
The rapidly expanding problem of transnational hispanic gangs has also received increased attention lately, as evidenced by the recent announcement of the establishment of a Transnational Anti-Gang Unit (http://www.usdoj.gov/ag/speeches/2007/ag_speech_070205.html) in close cooperation with El Salvador.



In that regard this post (http://prairiepundit.blogspot.com/2007/02/deported-ms-13-leader-escapes-and-may.html) on an MS-13 leader who was accused of terrorist attacks in Honduras is interesting. He was caught in Texas deported and then disappeared and it is believed that he is on his way back to the US.


Ever Anibal Rivera Paz, the alleged chief of the Honduran arm of the Mara Salvatrucha gang, was being extradited on charges of plotting a massacre that left 28 people, including six children, dead on Dec. 23, 2004.

Also known as "El Culiche," The Tapeworm, Rivera Paz was last seen boarding a deportation flight from Houston to Honduras on Nov. 17, 2005, according to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement records.

The FBI fears Rivera Paz may have returned to the United States or may be headed that way, according to a confidential May 2006 FBI bulletin obtained by the Chronicle.

"Officers should be aware that he has threatened to assassinate any officer that attempts to apprehend him," the bulletin states.

I have seen the gangs graffiti on buildings here in Texas.

Bill Moore
02-11-2007, 05:23 PM
Jedburgh I agree the street gangs are more sosphicated and definitely a greater criminal threat than bubba. However, the gangs for the most part are carving out niches of territory to operate in. They don't want to govern territory, they just want the government weak enough not to interfer with their businss. This is a serious threat, one that needs to be dealt with now, but the extremist hate gangs are morphing into an insurgency openly threatening to overthrow the government. It is time we stop monitoring them, go out and roll these overweight clowns up, put them on a diet, and then a reform program, and if there are any true believers in their ranks, put them away. How long are we going to let this grow go unmitigated.

Your comments about networking in OIF between the the extreme right and Islamists are "probably" correct, but I still don't like putting two together in the same sandbox. I see potential for ugliness.

One area we definitely agree on is the low entry standards for the Armed Forces is magnifying this problem expontentially. My wife just told me she was listening to an ex-wife of a military policemen on a news show, and she said her husband had a criminal record and now he is a military policeman? She said he called her from Iraq and told her that he has a gun, and that he can kill people and get away with it. Um? Obviously there is the potential that this isn't the full story, but the fact is we are getting more and more kids like this in our ranks. I was going to encourage my son to join, not now. You join the military to serve your nation and learn values, not associate with criminals.

Stan
02-11-2007, 06:07 PM
Hey Slapout,
Thanks for the cultural enhancement !
I have this feeling (the GPS Chip on my shoulder) you actually saw this as an LE.
Hats off to you !
Regards, Stan

bismark17
02-11-2007, 07:17 PM
We are already seeing the effects of well trained and experienced soldiers and Marines back in CONUS engaging in criminal activities. There have been several incidents of Police officers being shot by disturbed vets using assault rifles and CQB tactics out west. There was also a recent bank job in Seattle allegedly by several active members of the 2/75. Their "Actions on the Objective" were very professional but they neglected to think out a better infil/exfil plan and were quickly caught.

I don't think we have to worry much about any potential nexus between our bangers and the Jihadists. The bangers are looking for easy money and prestige/respect and there would be tremendous coordination problems between them and the more religious inspired extremists.

As for the white supremacist/seperatist movements working with any Jihadist groups, I also think it would be very difficult. While there has been mention of several groups that gave praise for 9-11 on their websites, those particular groups are marginalized even within their own movement and are very fragmented with dwindling numbers.

I think one of the main L.E. threats in the near future will be the proliferation of banger types who are well trained and experienced from their service time and back on the streets. They will have a lower reluctance to use force and will be far more capable in applying it.

slapout9
02-11-2007, 11:17 PM
Here is an interesting connection of the KKK to terrorism.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,236014,00.html

Jedburgh
02-12-2007, 12:27 AM
Here is an interesting connection of the KKK to terrorism.

KKK's David Duke Tells Iran Holocaust Conference That Gas Chambers Not Used to Kill Jews (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,236014,00.html)
...I would take care to qualify that. Duke's visit to that conference in Iran is only indicative of shared anti-Semitic ideology and a desire for publicity. To state factually that the KKK has active operational links to Iranian and/or Iranian supported terrorist groups/activities requires much more in the way of intelligence than the expected media reporting on an overt, highly-publicized and intensely monitored event.

slapout9
02-12-2007, 12:44 AM
Jed, I agree completely, it is more publicity and maybe feeling out a fund raising source than anything else. Duke is good at that. what I thought was unique and tends to prove your point (other posts) is he approached them!! Not the other way around. I don't think the Jihad wants anything to do with them because they are VERY WELL MONITORED in the US.

If their are international terrorist linkages between US located hate groups (I don't know myself) I think they would go through the Transnational Latin Gangs. It would just be to easy that way and many of them are nothing but stone cold killers. MS-13 has openly stated many times they will engage LE officers by any means necessary. They are close to being like the group called the "Weathermen" of the early 70's they shot a lot of Policeman just to do it.

In the end they are all gangs to me anyway drug,terrorist, insurgents,hate groups, some just have more money and operate over larger areas and have differant motives but a gang is a gang is a gang.


Forgot hi Stan, your GPS chip is right but anybody in LE sooner or later will run in this. People have no idea how big it is.

Jedburgh
02-12-2007, 03:06 AM
...I don't think the Jihad wants anything to do with them because they are VERY WELL MONITORED in the US.

If their are international terrorist linkages between US located hate groups (I don't know myself) I think they would go through the Transnational Latin Gangs. It would just be to easy that way and many of them are nothing but stone cold killers...
That talks to the point I've been trying to make, perhaps not clearly enough on my part.

As Bill mentioned in his first post in this thread, to date we have seen limited exploitation of the networks of both international organized crime and sophisticated transnational gangs by terrorists. The realization of the full potential for effective exploitation of such networks for logistics and other operational support by terrorists is a nightmare scenario that has had a significant chunk of the community concerned for a while. However, whether it remains limited to minor activities or becomes a key node in the development of a catastrophic terrorist attack, this doesn't mean that the criminals are actually allied with Al-Qa'ida, its imitators or any terrorist that makes use of them - in such a situation, they are simply conducting a criminal activity for a fee. Rarely are searching questions when conducting those transactions - as long as the money is good.

Both international organized crime and transnational gangs, by their very nature, can provide services-for-hire to an operational terrorist cell attempting to obtain or smuggle in weapons, explosives or people. Other support functions such as acquiring vehicles or small boats and aircraft with no paper trail, money laundering, and the provision of a wide variety of forged documentation are also readily available. A professionally-run compartmented terrorist organization, with dispersed and disposable operational cells acting under the guidance of disassociated leadership is already difficult to roll up. By exploitating such support activities that a more conventional-type terror organization would try to fill with its own support/logistics cells or by support from known friendly states or other known, allied non-state actors puts a degree of separation in the lead-up to a terrorist attack that it makes it even more difficult to detect.

Establishing these operational linkages with groups known to share elements of their ideology and goals is not only unnecessary, it poses a greater risk of operational compromise. It just ain't smart.

Bill Moore
02-12-2007, 03:33 AM
Jed, I found your points very interesting, but I wouldn't simply disregard a potential course of action because it isn't smart business. Our enemies make mistakes, just like the so called well trained Rangers who robbed the bank in the NW. None the less I concur with your analysis.

I can't recall if I mentioned it earlier, but the book "Illicit" is eye opening on the merging of various criminal and legal networks to facilitate smuggling (and other types of criminal/insurgent/terrorist activities). Friedman's book, "The World is Flat" is a must read for understanding the new world order, and then read Illicit to see how the underworld is adapting to globalism. Borrowing a phrase from John Robb, there are numerous centers of excellence that terrorists can outsource business to that will smuggle their weapons, people, knowledge, etc. to designated target areas. You're right, it is a potential nightmare scenario. Using cut outs and electronic fund transfers it provides both players with a relative high degree of security.

bismark17
02-12-2007, 06:54 AM
I could see the smaller scale, home grown, entities dealing with regular Organized Crime elements or street gangs as part of their normal routine. In most cases, they probably already are, either for operational purposes or for "fund raising." Illicit or illegal entities have to flock together to a certain extent. But, I can't see the varsity squads doing it for OPSEC purposes.

There is just too much at risk. The old adage, "that there isn't any honor among thieves" proves itself again and again. When faced with serious time almost all of them will roll. In a recent roll up, where I work, of a criminal group from a specific regional area one of the subjects fled back to a total hellhole in Africa instead of risking getting Federal time. No matter what your opinion is on our prison system, most suspects still prefer to avoid it.

There is a difference between people motivated by greed and people motivated by ideology. One of my more interesting arrests over the years was of several White Power people who had been in a simple incident. Their entire demeanor was different than your usual suspect. During search incident to arrest, several had numerous papers that appeared to be in code. They were very connected with various groups that were big during that time frame. They lawyered up right away and wouldn't talk discuss any specifics to why they were under arrest but were very happy to converse with us. I had just got out of the Army as an Infantry Officer and could see that these guys had some discipline to them. They would constantly talk to us and include our names into it. It was obvious to me that they were trying to develop a rapport and burn our names and faces into their memories. When you ran their criminal histories all were for serious felony assaults and malicious harrassment(hate crimes) and not the usual drug arrests. I was a little more cautious for the next few months.

Obviously, you can't discount anything, but I think our problems are not going to be from any coalitions of AQ and Hizbollah with our home growns. I hate to say it, but I would put money that Hezbollah has enough cells and support networks already here to even worry about that issue. :mad:

Bill Moore
02-12-2007, 04:44 PM
I don't think I would classify business deals as coalitions, unless it was long term strategic relationship, but your points are well taken. I owe some examples, but that will have to wait until I have time to pull my dog eared books off the shelf.

Jedburgh
02-12-2007, 05:10 PM
...along the lines of what we've been discussing, I recommend the following as a good read:

Methods and Motives: Exploring Links Between Transnational Organized Crime and International Terrorism (http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/211207.pdf)

goesh
02-12-2007, 07:47 PM
Aside from the obvious that home grown terrorists like the KKK and Aryan Nations don't have much to directly contribute to the likes of Al Qaidah, I think there would be some harsh cultural barriers that would inhidibit a coalition as well and would tend to keep them on a business level arrangement, cash for drugs, drugs for guns type arrangements. The Southern Poverty Law Center pretty much bankrupted the KKK and that isn't much to present on a resume' in seeking coalition partners with the likes of Al Qaidah. The KKK was easily infilitrated by the FBI too, another bad mark for any resume' for a proposed coalition.

tequila
02-12-2007, 09:52 PM
Count me as a major skeptic of U.S. gang-terrorist interaction. Sorry, this just strikes me as major Tom Clancy paranoid territory.

But when I saw these pictures, I thought perhaps I was wrong ... Fifty Cent in Beirut (http://www.waleg.com/photos/displayimage.php?album=420&pos=5). ;)

I hope I'm not the only one in here young enough to know who Fifty Cent is ...

Bill Moore
02-21-2007, 01:42 AM
Below is a link that Tequilla posted under the News section today, and one other supporting link. The story describes right wing terrorists attempting, a so called, WMD attack in Texas in 2003. I know 2003 was busy year for a lot of us, but I don't recall hearing about this. I think it is relevant, since we're talking about potential threat levels in this thread.

http://www.thememoryhole.org/terror/tyler-terror.htm

http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/1229/p02s01-usju.html

bismark17
02-22-2007, 05:18 AM
Yea, that was a legit deal. A lot of information was burning through the FOUO networks during that date/time frame. There has been at least another one group with the same type of ideology several years back that were involved in some plots but am not sure what can be discussed. They came to light when the bomb maker, thankfully for us, "scored an own goal" and blasted himself while building an IED.