US Crime Stats vs. Iraq

[Strickland]

Per the US crime statistics that were just released today, the US suffered 16,900 homicides last year, and approx. 1,900,000 violent crimes overall. What is truly remarkable about the homicide figure is that the US has one of the most advanced emergency response and trauma care systems in the world, thus the same number of violent crimes committed in most other nations would result in many times the number of homicides we have.

Houston, a city of 2 million, experienced 334 homicides, or 1:5988 citizens. Philadelphia, a city of 1.5 million, experienced 377 homicides, or 1:3978. Using these figures against the population of Baghdad, you get the following number of homicides: 1002 (Houston figure) or 1508 (Philly figure). Again, taking into consideration the lack of superior emergency service and trauma care in Baghdad, in this light, things dont look too bad.

Given the figure of 1.9 million violent crimes, this means that Iraq could have 165,605 violent crimes, and still only be as bad or good as the US.

Food for thought.

[mustavaris]

I must say that this comparison isn´t quite fair. In Iraq there must be a huge number of lesser crimes which are not recorded because of the situation. I believe (guess) that most of the aggravated assaults are recorded in the USA while I would´t be so sure whether it´s done in Iraq, and then we got a lot of lesser violence which probably isn´t recorded at any significant level in Iraq while those crimes have rather good chances to go public in USA.

In my opinion better comparison could be made between Iraq and South Africa or Columbia.

[Stu-6]

I think a comparable survey of Iraq would reveal a much higher level of violence than the US. I think that large numbers of things like kidnappings for ransom and theft from illegal check points go unreported and resulted in no fatalities but still constitute violent crime.

To get a better picture of the situation you would also need to know something about the victims. If we were to look at the victims of violent crime in the United States the most vulnerable segments of the population (poor, elderly, live in bad neighborhoods, etc.) would make a large percentage than they represent in the population, as would people who engage in crime themselves (drug dealers, gang members, prostitutes, etc.) In Iraq the numbers would likely be more evenly distributed across the population, additionally in Iraq there are many more attacks against armed members of the government (police and army) and attacks against heavily armed coalition soldiers, which have no comparison in the US.

[Strickland]

I guess that I was trying to suggest that before we throw stones at the levels of violence and lack of civil society or civil discourse in other nations, to include Iraq, around the world, maybe we should look at problems here at home? Any nation that reports one violent crime per 157 residents, the US, must surely have a crime, insurgent, gun, etc. problem.

As pointed out above, crime in the US seems to target a select group(s), and is perpetrated by another select group of individuals. Is this not a pseudo-insurgency?

I think it is about time that we in the US admit that we live in a violent society. Case in point - I believe that we have had 43 presidents, I which 13 have been the target of a successful or unsuccessful assasination attempt.

[slapout9]

Major, do you or anybody else know if crime statisics are actually kept in Iraq?
I agree we do have a crime problem in america but the political leadership which controls funding lacks the will to do anything about it.
I think 5 million illegal mexicans is a pseudo-insurgency and a sleeping tiger we will have to face sooner or later.
Presidential attacks are such a unique crime that I don't think that is a good measure of violence in the US, plenty of other stats that would make your point.

[Jedburgh]

I think 5 million illegal mexicans is a pseudo-insurgency and a sleeping tiger we will have to face sooner or later.
The tiger ain't sleeping - and its not primarily the illegals that are the problem. Hispanic gangs are becoming a very large problem throughout the country - Surenos, Nortenos, Latin Kings, La Eme, Mexican Mafia, Los Zetas and MS-13. The majority of these gang members are legal immigrants, and they tend to prey on the illegals. They regularly steal from their own people, because the illegals are too frightened to come in and report the crimes.

This isn't to say that there aren't a significant number of illegals involved in the gangs - just that most illegals sneak across the border to work miserable jobs for low pay that are still better than anything on offer back home. They risk everything coming here illegally in order to send money home, or better yet (in their perception), to eventually bring the rest of the family here. The Hispanic gangs exert a lot of effort at exploiting the illegals in a variety of ways.

[Strickland]

Major, do you or anybody else know if crime statisics are actually kept in Iraq?
I agree we do have a crime problem in america but the political leadership which controls funding lacks the will to do anything about it.
I think 5 million illegal mexicans is a pseudo-insurgency and a sleeping tiger we will have to face sooner or later.
Presidential attacks are such a unique crime that I don't think that is a good measure of violence in the US, plenty of other stats that would make your point.

The MOI and MOH keep "good" records for major crimes in Baghdad. These are the only reliable figures I know of for any area in Iraq. I would imagine that the Kurds have some method of tracking criminal activities.

[Strickland]

The tiger ain't sleeping - and its not primarily the illegals that are the problem. Hispanic gangs are becoming a very large problem throughout the country - Surenos, Nortenos, Latin Kings, La Eme, Mexican Mafia, Los Zetas and MS-13.

Agreed. At some point, the DoS needs to designate MS-13 either a FTO, or place them on the OTL.

[slapout9]

While we are on this subject (for Jed and the Major) just a few weeks ago when all the demonstrations took place and I asssume some of the demonstrators were actually illegals, could that be taken as act of war since they were foriegn nationals on american soil threatening our government??

[Strickland]

I would imagine that regardless of their status as illegal immigrants, they still maintain the freedom to assembly peacefully so long as the march demonstrators had obtained the appropriate permits for the event.

In a similar fashion, supporters of the PKK (a designated FTO) routinely hand out material on the grounds opposite the White House (Lafayette Park). This is considered both protected speech and freedom of assembly until they begin asking for either material contributions or openly recruit members.

[Stu-6]

Illegal immigrants are not usually the problem. They are less likely to be part of the crime problem than their legal counterparts or native born citizens. By in large they want to stay out of sight and out of mind, for obvious reasons..