CGSC Questions

[Cliff]

Howdy-

I recently found out that I got my first choice for PME and will be going to CGSC this summer.

I had a few questions about the courses there, and figured this might be a good place to get them answered. I am working on getting an AKO account up and running, so forgive me if the answers are available there. Here goes:

1. Is there a set curriculum, or do you pick classes?

2. Is a Master's offered?

3. Is a language offered/required?

4. Are there any TDYs/trips to the field?

5. Any advice on where to live while at CGSC?

I am sure I'll have a lot more questions, and any advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance for the help!

V/R,

Cliff

[John T. Fishel]

Hi Cliff--

It's "the best year of your life." Talk to Rob, Niel and others about living in Leavenworth. Some electives but a set curriculum. There are two versions of the masters program - both offer the MMAS (Master of Military Art & Science). The regular course MMAS takes 3 of your electives and requires a thesis. SAMS requires a second year, lots of reading, and 2 major research papers (40 pages each). My good friend, Dr. Bob Baumann, director of Grad Degree Programs, runs the MMAS and would be your best source of advice. Is there a particular reason why you want a second masters? From my experience, I have only found a couple of folk who got something significant out of second, third, etc masters. One was a Canadian exhange officer student at CGSC who already had a PhD from London School of Economics but wanted to write a book. He found the MMAS the perfect vehicle for that! I chaired his MMAS committee. He has now retired and is a civilian prof at Royal Military College of Canada where he proudly boasts of his MMAS on his CV. He also designed the very fine Canadian Forces College masters (their CGSC) along the lines of the regular Leavenworth MMAS. When I did their accreditation visit in 2006, I found their program to be even better than ours.

Anyway,PM me if you want more info.

Cheers

JohnT

[82redleg]

Currently in CGSC 10-01.



1. Is there a set curriculum, or do you pick classes?
THere is a set cirriculum, but the last third of the course is 2 elective periods- you must take a regional, and there are some other particular requirements possible, depending on your branch.
2. Is a Master's offered?
You can take an MMAS- it consists of 3 courses (which count as 4 of your 8 electives), an oral defense and an oral comprehensive exam. I started (until I was selected fo the second year for SAMS), and it was easier/less hassle than my peers taking civilian masters programs
3. Is a language offered/required?
Yes. You can take any language in the Rosetta Stone series, and there are programs from DLI for Iraqi Arabic and Dari. Both count for elective credit
4. Are there any TDYs/trips to the field?
Yes, there are several exchanges (Canada, UK, Germany, France, Australia, off the top of my head) and at least 2 staff rides (Gettysburg and the Indian Wars), but they are all optional- elective credit. You have to apply for the exchanges, and sign up for the staff rides.
5. Any advice on where to live while at CGSC?
Depends on your situation. If you have a family, I recommend you live on post. They are building lots of new housing, and have gotten rid of the worst of the old housing. Single? Most live over to KC, MO, in Platte City or even further- its only about 30 minutes. There are also some places in Leavenworth, if you aren't as interested in the night life.
I am sure I'll have a lot more questions, and any advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance for the help!

V/R,

Cliff

[John]

I believe that the basics have been covered. I would only add a sense of expectation management.

[Cliff]

Currently in CGSC 10-01.
THere is a set cirriculum, but the last third of the course is 2 elective periods- you must take a regional, and there are some other particular requirements possible, depending on your branch.
3. Is a language offered/required?
Yes. You can take any language in the Rosetta Stone series, and there are programs from DLI for Iraqi Arabic and Dari. Both count for elective credit
4. Are there any TDYs/trips to the field?
Yes, there are several exchanges (Canada, UK, Germany, France, Australia, off the top of my head) and at least 2 staff rides (Gettysburg and the Indian Wars), but they are all optional- elective credit. You have to apply for the exchanges, and sign up for the staff rides.


82redleg -

What are the electives like? Are the languages individual study, or is there a classroom portion too?

How long are the exchanges? I've heard about the staff rides here on SWJ, they sound like a pretty cool way to experience some important history.


I believe that the basics have been covered. I would only add a sense of expectation management.

John-

What do you mean by this? Is it more/less/about what you expected? If it is like most AF courses, the basics of what you get out of it are OK, but you have to go a little farther than that to get much more.

Thanks to all for the answers!

V/R,

Cliff

[John]

What do you mean by this? Is it more/less/about what you expected? If it is like most AF courses, the basics of what you get out of it are OK, but you have to go a little farther than that to get much more.



Cliff - that is exactly what I meant. I was fortunate that my peers (from my previous unit) were able to essentially provide me the answers to the questions you asked so the school is about what I expected. Of course having said that, your instructors and small group peers will play a role in your overall experience. I have had a positive experience overall. A good opportunity to "cool the jets", be a husband and parent again, and look at the academic side of things.

By the way, I live off post in Lansing, KS. It is about a 20 minute drive depending on traffic. The school district is better by Kansas testing standards so if that is a consideration....

John

[82redleg]

What are the electives like? Are the languages individual study, or is there a classroom portion too?

THere are electives taught by all the departments- History, Leadership, Tactics, Joint-Interagency. They vary alot. Send me a PM and I'll send you the course guide with the descriptions of each course. The DLI languages have an in-class portion. You can also get elective credit for completing one of the Rosetta Stone self-study programs on line.



How long are the exchanges? I've heard about the staff rides here on SWJ, they sound like a pretty cool way to experience some important history.

It seems like most of the exchanges are 2 weeks or so. I did not apply, and have deleted the detailed information (the application deadlines have passed).

[Cavguy]

82 Redleg hit most of the points I would raise. ILE is what you make of it. If you do the readings and work with the instructors you can learn a lot. You can also slide by easily with minimal work.

The offsites/staff rides are by application, you are eligible for 1x foreign trip and possibly others. Your public engagements (required for grad) can involve travel as well. As said before, electives are your chance to follow your dreams. As for language, there are a few offered yearlong (French, Chinese, Arabic) and the rest are Rosetta Stone based in electives.

Personally have been highly disappointed by the course. Mostly training, less education. Classes are geared to "checking blocks", and repeating the expected answers to the tests from doctrine.

That said, have enjoyed the history and leadership blocks especially, and tactics has been getting better with the later modules.

[Cliff]

Trying to work out a place to hang my hat while attending CGSC.

I will be unaccompanied (wife is also USAF and stays put for now), so on base is out.

Did a quick recon last weekend while in KC for a wedding. Seems like Lansing or Platte City are the closest decent housing. Opinions on them? How is the drive on class days?

My buddy who is guard said that the drive from Platte City might be a little bad but, and I quote "you probably won't get knifed or shot". Leavenworth itself did seem a little sketchy...

Anyway, any learned opinions would be appreciated!

V/R,

Cliff

[699guy]

Cliff,
As a geo-batchlor you can stay on post. I think the housing office has a list of other geo-batchlors who you can link up with and roommate with on post. Con-not exactly the social mecca of KS
Pro- you can walk ride a bike to class and save a lot of $ on gas and rent.

couple of my small group mates are G.B.s and it worked well for them.