German occupation of France(1940-1944)model for regime change?
I was reading an article today in Military Review. Comparing the policies and outcomes practiced politically and military by the US in Germany after 1945 against Iraq from 2003-onwards vs. the German occupation of France 1940-1944.
However, as a perspective model for regime change and restructuring, I found France 1940-1944 to be the most interesting due to the parallels between Iraq to France during the Second World War. For example, rapid invasion and defeat, stark underlying social and political differences in society, anti-democratic and sectarian undercurrents etc, just among the few similarities that can be drawn.
In addition, could this instance from history provide possible lessons for state building, regime change, and nation restructuring? As the German occupation of France during WWII largely left the French to the day to day including the pre-existing governance and most enforcement(despite occupying most of the French heartland), including tolerating participation of individuals and entities with differing opinions across the spectrum so much as they didn't stand in the way of German objectives(this excluded Jews, Communists, many Republicans). All of which were taken in much part to avoid agitating the various elements and French society as a whole.
Overall, the German's it could said maintained the French state as it largely existed before the invasion, while directly influencing it to meet their needs. As well as partitioning France early on, to meet earlier objectives and reuniting the country to ensure ones later on.
While in comparison, the US-led invasion and nation-building venture in Iraq attempted to create n entirely new state from the ground up, without much regard to the existing, underlying, political cleavages and issues in Iraq pre-invasion.
Sorry if this all appears a little jumbled obvious, or even doesn't make sense as I was just drawing conclusions from the article I read.
Also here is the article,
http://usacac.army.mil/CAC2/Military...831_art009.pdf
So any opinions?
Kevin, you pick interesting topics
I suppose that comparison of 1945 Germany and 2003 Iraq is inevitable, given that 1945 Germany (and 1945 Japan) were held up by some as models for what we were to do in Iraq - and thence, in the entire Arab World (a 1000 democratic flowers blossoming !).
Since my own prejudice involves a three-step regime change process (unrelated to an long-term occupation): (1) Remove old regime by armed force (or by less violent means, if feasible - usually not feasible); (2) Remove armed force from country without a formal, legal occupation; and (3) Allow the natives (whether restless or not) to come up with their own new regime (or regimes). Chaos, anarchy, .... shouts the chorus in opposition. In short, I'm not the right person to critique nation-building (state-building) via military occupations.
As to 1940-1945 France, the picture was scarcely as rosy as the author paints. However, I'd be more interested in what M. Legrange has to say about that period in French history - as I believe his dad was an officer on the Charlie Gallstone side of the fence.
So, Marc-André, if your current travels permit, RSVP.
Regards
Mike
The non-German SS volunteers
I ran into a general overview of European pro-Nazi sentiment and those men who then joined Waffen-SS units, when I was researching the Finnish unit (including Lauri Torni, later aka MAJ Larry Thorne US SF) that at times was attached to the Waffen-SS (at other times, attached to the Wehrmacht or simply fighting as a Finnish Army unit).
Anyway, the general overview is found in Richard Landwehr (Wiki), The European Volunteer Movement in World War II (Magna Europa est Patria Nostra), in three parts - with great poster art (which is why I saved it):
Part 1, Part 2 and Part 3.
Be aware that Landwehr is a controversial figure; although I suspect his figures for the SS volunteers are probably accurate. He relies on Leon Degrelle (Belgian), of whom, Hitler said: ""If I should have a son I would like him to be like Leon." Nuff said, at Epic: The Story of the Waffen SS.
Take care when walking in this wilderness.
Mike
I believe I have to respond
Well, I will come back to Kevin post first.
The idea that French Government was not cooperating is wrong, unfortunately.
1) The French government from Vichy was one of the most supportive to the racist ideology of the Nazi.
2) The French government was not rebuilt. Actually Vichy government was ruled by the laws of French republique. Which makes a huge difference with Irak or Astan. The French government (against all imaginable possibilities) surrended and this was made by a handfull of politicians and not the majority of the parliament and even less the army. Historians just published an interresting book (only in French unfortunately) of politic fiction on what would have happened if France did not surrender by actually fought until the end.
3) The main actions taken against the civilian populations in France were the fact of the Milice, the French police. Especially if you look at deportations.
4) Finally the French army was not dismantled. Unlike in Irak.
But, to also give some credit to this idea, modern warfare developped during Algeria has a lot to see with what the Nazi (And not the germans as people/folk) did during occupation. This actually one of the critics of the modern warfare and COIN.
I will take more time to look at the issue in details as it is interresting: how to conduct COIN and not end up either as the Nazi or the French during Algeria... :o
Finally, Mike, you are right, one of my grand father was on the right side. While the otherone was prisonner in Poland as officer for 4 years.
Marc, you guys are too young ....
Well, I was a generation away from right:
from
Quote:
MAL
Finally, Mike, you are right, one of my grand father was on the right side. While the other one was prisonner in Poland as officer for 4 years.
Your grandfathers were of the same "vintage" as my father - and on the same side. :)
But I still have a 18-year old mentality. ;)
Colonialement
Mike