None of my business, but I'm idly curious...
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Originally Posted by
VMI_Marine
...One thing that bugged me is the Lt Fick character repeatedly calling his TL, Sgt Colbert, by his first name.
Why is that?
Well, you agree with the book...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jkm_101_fso
Because it just doesn't happen, or it's not supposed to. PLs don't refer to their NCOs by first name. I think it's pretty unheard of...and unprofessional. Just my 2 cents. Maybe in SF units or Force Recon, it's acceptable, I wouldn't know, but for a line Infantry company, no.
Having spent a great deal of time in line units and having been called by rank as well as by first, last and unprintable names by Officers ranging from 2LT to BG I'd be inclined to say it depends on the unit and the people -- as well as the circumstances; level or intensity of combat can make a difference. I do not see it as 'unprofessional' (whatever that means) at all. You have to know your people and I can truthfully say that neither any Officer that called me by my first name nor I ever forgot who I was or who they were.
I suspect part of it is a self confidence thing. I think it interesting that you posit it may be acceptable in SF or Force Recon but not in line units. Seems to me it either would be okay or it wouldn't. Fire a few inert rounds and give a good line unit the extra training SF or Recon get and you'd get similar performance capability..
For Maximus I agree that in most Marine units it would be far less likely to happen than it would be in the Army -- for several reasons -- but I can truthfully say that back in my misspent youth as an 1811 in Korea my Platoon commander called me by my first name most of the time. That was the only place in the Corps that happened but it was handy, that way I always knew when I'd fouled up. ;)
there certainly is a double standard...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ken White
Having spent a great deal of time in line units and having been called by rank as well as by first, last and unprintable names by Officers ranging from 2LT to BG I'd be inclined to say it depends on the unit and the people -- as well as the circumstances; level or intensity of combat can make a difference. I do not see it as 'unprofessional' (whatever that means) at all. You have to know your people and I can truthfully say that neither any Officer that called me by my first name nor I ever forgot who I was or who they were.
Since being commissioned, I have always been called by my first name by officers senior to me. At least alone or amongst other officers, anyway; rarely in front of troops. As an enlisted Soldier, I was never called by my first name by anyone, from TL up to CO (although I was called many other things). I suppose it is a double standard, because I have NEVER referred to an NCO or a Soldier by their first name. Not one time, ever; because I was taught that it wasn't professional. Maybe I'm wrong. Additionally, I didn't say that is was correct that SF types call each other by their first name, I just heard from friends in that community that it was common and accepted.
Call it unprofessional if you will...
In nineteen months of command (12 in combat), I raised my voice only thrice.
I called my SSG's and above by their first names.
If they were called by their rank/last name, then they knew they were in trouble.
It builds a cohesive team specifically in the most tenacious times of trench/room clearing.
To me, this issue is as irrelevant and silly as the grooming standards commissioned by the Marine Battalion and expressed today by the PT reflective belts at LSAA.
Professionalism lies in the cleanliness of the weapons, the readiness of the equipment, and the response time to an action.
Brotherhood lies in the bonds shared throughout the tense times.
From my subordinates, I was always referred to as sir.
I am regular army. Only short bus special.
For me, I smiled throughout Generation Kill as I relived my time as a platoon leader on their western flank in 3rd ID.
I don't think it's unprofessional, though I'll have
to admit that in 27 years in a war suit and 18 as a DAC, the only time I ever got told I was 'unprofessional' was when a Hindquarters Co 1SG accused me of being that because I refused to have the troops wax and buff the floor in the Brigade 3 shop every single night. I was hard put to figure the 'unprofessional' part of that and I'm still confused on the issue, obviously. On the floor, didn't lose a lot of sleep over it -- nor did I change the cleaning SOP..:wry:
Long way of pointing out that different approaches are not all bad. For another example, that same book says we should "praise in public and condemn in private." That is generally true but some people get really upset when you praise them publicly and for others, the worst thing you can do to them, worse than any chewing, extra duty or a fine, is to embarrass them in public. Still another is the well known 'on the spot correction.' Sometimes necessary -- rarely -- but mostly, such corrections should be avoided because they subvert the chain of command. Heebly's bad performance won't improve unless his Squad Leader knows about it (and if the Squad Leader is the problem, the Platoon sergeant knows and so on, thus best to note the transgression and cue the appropriate echelons above old Heebly, METT-TC permitting)...
That said, no intent to denigrate anyone or any practice, just trying to point out that people and standards can differ -- and if they work for the time and place, none is necessarily wrong; they're just different. That and mention that even good books are just a guide; they are not the gospel. It really all boils down to knowing your people and what works for you...
After my mindless digression, we now return to our scheduled program; "Generation Kill" :cool: