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Hi,
This is a bit old happened a month ago with students protesting Gen. Petraeus's visit at Georgetown University. The video has over 14,000 views on youtube. What do you guys think? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Rc5rAoAoTM
When you see this video this is why I'm embarrased to be a student. Not all students are radical liberals like their professors (most professors).
Naomi
Let's put this in perspective.Quote:
Originally Posted by yamiyugikun
I'm not sure anyone should be particularly embarrassed by a mere ten protesters out of the 743 people (1.3%) that can be seated in Gaston Hall, or for that matter the over 15,000 students (0.07%) on the Georgetown campus.
Indeed, the reaction of the audience appeared to be very critical of the heckling.
Good (and encouraging) point by Rex about the reactions from most of the audience. I would also add that the amazing restraint and order among the audience and security personnel was admirable. Among the ten disrupters, I can forgive them for being clueless punks who have no life experience and who never learned proper manners. But I really wonder what kind of reaction this drew from the faculty. Were they embarrassed? Proud? Pleased? Upset? Disappointed?
Will any of these students face disciplinary action for this? Or is this public disobedience and misbehavior just "free speech"? Whether this happens to GEN Petraeus or Michael Moore, it astounds me to see this activity continue without any apparent repercussion. Why isn't this grounds for expelling a student? Or is it and I just haven't heard?
Hi Naomi,
Let me do a slightly different take from Rex on this. First, this was an extremely amateurish protest which, I believe, reflects the poor quality of the teaching / learning of political communications. Hades, Alinski must be rolling in his grave! I organized better ones when I was 13 :cool:.Quote:
Originally Posted by yamiyugikun
Second, it was an extremely ineffective protest; look at how they were being boo'ed by most of the audience at times and how a lot of heads were nodding when they were escorted out.
Both of these points were highlighted in the clip of the protesters outside; poor (and stupid) chants & signs, no information immediately available, no attempt to draw in the crowd, etc. These people are an insult to the New Left of the 1960's, and I hope that any professors who were "advising" them get slapped down by their elders!
Let me also make one, direct, comment about the "radical liberals". I deal with them all the time and, in most cases, they are a product of how academic hiring selections have worked over the past 40-50 years. Some of them are extremely intelligent and their critiques are extremely valuable, while others, quite frankly, are cynical manipulators of the system they live in. In other words, they are like all humans; some good, most middlin', and some who aren't even fit to make screech with.
The point I'm trying to make is that you shouldn't let labels become your reality. You need to listen to what they are saying regardless of their labels, and make your own decisions - that's "critical thinking" :D.
Okay, final point: my grandmother always used to say that "politeness was the vasaline of social intercourse", and that is a lesson these particular protesters just didn't learn. Of course, I think it would be a fascinating experiment for them to try the same style of protest at, say, the Quetta Shura and see where they get with it (drat,. now were is that "totally evil grin smiley....?)
A few moons ago now, GEN (R) Bernard Trainor, USMC spoke at Holy Cross in Worcester, MA. He is an alum and led a seminar in addition to his speech. Because I was an Army ROTC cadet I was able to get one of the seats in the seminar and got to talk with him. I had read his book on the Gulf War (The Generals' War) and he was very sharp in person. At the actual speech, some students protested outside and complained that a retired officer shouldn't speak and that ROTC was evil, etc... Thankfully no one interrupted his talk, but during the Q+A some students, professors, or residents of Worcester tried to sharp shoot or trick him. I can't remember what he said, but I do remember that he didn't take their crap and shot back some really good lines. I understand that these students believe in what they're doing, but since they can actually do so little, I hope this makes them happy.
HC is a Jesuit school and has its range of activists, but I remember they were either really out there, or thought they were really clever until proven otherwise, but never openly hostile or offensive. I did laugh after they announced weekly protests until the end of the Iraq War, and I walked by one day and there was no protest because it was raining. That memory made me feel good a few years later whenever it rained in Iraq. If this is as organized as the protests can get, Americans either really don't care or actually support what we're doing. Not sure which.
As a great fan of Alinsky, I loved the comment. We didn't organize when I was 13 but we did organize a strike when I was 14 and a pretty good demonstration when I was 16. In college, many of us picketed an appearance of George Wallace before he spoke and then went inside and listened politely to what he had to say, and departed unconvinced.
No way I can top your grandmother's comment!!! Was she, perhaps, related to Neville Longbottom's Gran?;)
Cheers
JohnT
Hi John,
I've got to say how shocked I am at the poor organizing capabilities of so many of today's students - I'm beginning to think there would be a great demand for an "applied poli sci" course in the area :D. I always suspected that we had a similar background ;)....Quote:
Originally Posted by John T. Fishel
Wouldn't surprise me. Her official bio is here, although it is missing a lot; I guess they just don't like putting in "sayings" :D.Quote:
Originally Posted by John T. Fishel
Hi patmc,
Well, protesting outside is fine - at least they had the courtesy to not interrupt his talk! It also sounds like he entered into the "spirit" of the debate as well - good :D!Quote:
Originally Posted by patmc
Well, for many of these groups, the protests do follow an ordered patternQuote:
Originally Posted by patmc
- tri-weekly
- try weekly, and
- try weakly
There are other alternatives including fear of reprisal and just sheer incompetence on the organizers' parts ;). I've had the former happen at one of the symposia I was at a year back where advertising of the event was strictly limited because of fear of massive protests; we ended up with 1 speaker, 2 bodyguards with concealed automatic weapons, and ~20 people in the audience. My gut guess in this particular instance is sheer incompetence :D.Quote:
Originally Posted by patmc
Hi Marc,
Thank you for the background on how hiring in academia has worked over the past 40 years. I didn't realize how poorly put together the student protestors were in that the crowd were. I guess it doesn't compare to the new Left of the 1960s:D
Naomi
Hi Naomi,
Nope, they should be embarrassed by how they act - totally, like, 1920's Dude! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by yamiyugikun
Kind of reminds me of this comical protest. Don't drink the "corporate water!"
Hello All,
As a Georgetown student myself, I can say personally that the response on campus to these protests has been overwhelmingly in opposition to the protesters. Multiple articles were written in our school newspaper, "The Hoya" condemning these actions.
Link to article here: http://www.thehoya.com/opinion/cold-...ienates-guest/
And following the protests, a counter-protest was held condemning the actions of those who so rudely interrupted Gen. Petraeus.
Link to that article here: http://www.thehoya.com/news/counter-...tful-dialogue/
As a University, we pride ourselves on being gracious hosts to some of the worlds foremost leaders. From Generals, to Presidents and Prime Ministers, and even many religious leaders, Georgetown is and will hopefully remain a great platform for important individuals to express their ideas publicly. I can say with confidence that when NATO General Secretary Rasmussen comes to campus to speak next week he will certainly be provided the welcoming and open environment he deserves.
I don't get it. Where are they? What are they doing? Who is objecting? Why? Who is the douche bag holding the camera and what the hell is he talking about?Quote:
Originally Posted by Entropy
Sorry, forgot to include the background. You can also google "kimmel occupation." Basically, a group of protesters took over a cafeteria at NYU and held it hostage for three days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmedlap
You just can not buy a good education.
Hilarious, were it not for the fact that they are squandering an opportunity at higher education that, literally, hundreds of millions of people throughout the world would treasure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Entropy
If I were a spoiled rich kid living a care-free existence at a university in NY and decided that I was going to trespass and destroy property, then I, too, would have done it at a cafeteria. And I would have held out for as long as it took me to eat all of the bacon.:D
Agreed. I only watched half before I figured I could learn nothing more - the ramblings of the Patraeus protesters left me confused as well. What exactly were they protesting?Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmedlap
Hi Wilf,
Well, it looks like the Kimell protesters at least had a better organization and commo structure. Just from the video and backgrounder, it looks like a recap of some of the New Left postures including the same mistaken idea that democracy = consensus.Quote:
Originally Posted by William F. Owen
Is the other classics being "Non violent" = immune to violence? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by marct
Tsk, tsk, tsk! "non-violenty" = "we can beat you but you can't beat us!" :DQuote:
Originally Posted by William F. Owen