Commonalities and lessons learned between gangs and insurgencies
ALCON:
Seems to me after watching Gangland on The History Channel (great show on a great channel) that there are a lot of similarities between gangs and insurgencies...and a lot of lessons learned that can go both ways for counterinsurgents and law enforcement...does anyone know of any effort by the COINISTAS or DOD or anyone to reach out to the FBI or other bodies that have gang task forces to see what lessons can be learned/shared?
Thanks!
PK=COIN - Introduce yourself please
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Originally Posted by
PK=COIN
Would like to hear more about this--offline, probably be better--if anyone cares to share...
PK=COIN,
Please introduce yourself on SWJ, within OPSEC and personal safety. The thread is: http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/...ead.php?t=1441 You will find others like to know who is asking for help and adding comments.
davidbfpo
Was indeed started by truckers back in the 30s.
One blink was 'Hi.' Two was Cop ahead; three was danger ahead (road out, bridge out, icy bridge). A single flash when being passed was "I got you, okay to pull back in." Turning off the lights briefly was "thanks."
There was a time when a Cop witnessing a double flash to oncoming traffic would pull you over and harass you just for grins. Haven't seen that happen in the least 30-40 years.
Back to the thread -- you can bet there were and are literally hundreds of signals -- to include what the kids are doing and how they're playing. Also verbal cues that bystanders or even many Terps may pick up but not reveal.
Not just in this country.
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Originally Posted by
Schmedlap
I don't know what to do about it, but it seems like a self-reinforcing activity. ... I don't understand why people in this country find it so acceptable to help others break the law.
As your first paragraph above points out, it happens elsewhere. Everywhere in my observation.
Partly a 'we're all in this together; us against the man...' routine, partly rebellion against 'authority.' Partly a rather juvenile 'I'm violating the the rules -- look at me, I'm bad!' thing plus I'm sure a lot of other individual foibles wrapped up in it.
In the COIN-like scenario, I suspect there's also a lot of ethnic / neighbor solidarity plus a degree of fear that one might be able to fool or evade the foreigners but the local folks can get to you if they get angry.
Based on what I've seen, a lot depends on the attitude of the host nation or allied unit (or both) involved in the area; if they tend to get heavy handed or are perceived as excessively arrogant or even just rude (by local standards -- and most in the world are more polite than Americans. Further, the world over, all soldiers tend to sometimes be a little rough around the edges), they'll turn off the local folks and make them more inclined to indulge in if not actual help, at least a little passive resistance or passivity toward the bad guys.
Only solution to it I've found is absolutely fair and professional conduct or actions. People recognize competence when they see it and it garners respect even if one is not liked and fair treatment almost always draws a like response. I've seen that attitude provide information benefits from local populations that were of great value...
As an aside, throwing a lot of money about seems to me to have a negative effect; they'll take the money but you lose big points in respect. The more you throw, the more they'll take and the less you'll gain as it becomes a game to get as much of your wealth as possible.
I realize that throws one COIN theory out the window but I'm pretty well convinced that out profligate spending does more harm than good. Frequently and for many reasons, some spending is necessary but it is a mistake to think that buys any hearts or minds. Development will be accepted and used but it will not buy true friendship. Or loyalty -- or a a change of heart in the beneficiaries; we're still foreigners and fair game.
Prince meets gangs and says...
As the link words suggest a royal prince on gangs, after talking to them: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...eet-gangs.html
Added here, although other threads on gangs.
davidbfpo
Understand? Diverging approaches?
Bill,
A nice line:
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We have to understand this enemy in order to defeat him.
That maybe the US Army way, it certainly is not the UK police approach and I suspect other police forces rarely 'understand' their enemy.
Police officers deal with what I'll call DCI Detail: information, intelligence and above all evidence. Sometimes they gain Context: the why and the setting e.g. youth unemployment rates impact on property crime. Rarely we gain Insight, partly as so little studying is done (in the UK); it comes from informants, the rare defector, analysis and networking.
This police methodology may explain the diverging viewpoints in the (London) Metropolitan Police's Special Branch (intelligence) and Anti-Terrorist Branch (evidence) which lasted years and more recently the differences between NYPD offices.
How do the model(s) you know Bill differ?