Army opens prep school for dropouts to fill ranks

Sounds like the plot of the comedy "Renaissance Man"

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"It's academic immersion," explained Col. Jeffrey Sanderson, chief of staff at Fort Jackson, home of the Army's largest basic training school. "Our studies show that with only three out of every 10 people of military age being capable of joining the Army, we are going to have to do something different."

That includes turning six World War II-era buildings at the base into a mini-campus of spartan classrooms and barracks. Under the yearlong pilot project, classes of about 60 soldiers will enter the monthlong program every week.

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I know this will never happen but; if we opened a recruiting office in Mexico and offered a green card or citizenship at the end of say...10 years satisfactory service, (or any other stipulations you cared to add) we would have a very large pool of people to choose from.

who is high on basic education, this doesn't sound like a bad idea.

Seems there had to be something like that in WWII - I'm on and off reading Ken Burn's book.

Also seem to recall a Korean War study that suggested that infantry had to be smarter than the average bear - and the smarter ones survived better. :)

If it helps recruiting - more power to it.

The stats (3 of 10) don't say much positive about the US school system, do they; and as to the physical and legal health of that age cohort.

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But Sanderson said the Army's own studies show that only 3 in 10 people ages 17 to 24 are eligible to enlist, with the remainder barred by health or legal issues, or the failure to earn a high school diploma or equivalent.

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Truth in lending: I have a small economic stake in seeing the recruiting programs of all four services do well.

1. Some of you will remember that when we actively signed up "losers" because we thought they were the only ones who would join the Army, we then tried to get them GEDs once they were already in units. Can't tell you how much disruption that caused, because every "down" cycle (post support, etc) a certain percentage of your unit went to high school. Cdrs were graded on their ability to turn drop-outs into grads. This new program, if at all successful, may scratch a huge itch.

2. When I worked in a "futures" office we looked at a similar solution to the upcoming language challenge (we don't have problems in the Army). In the not too distant future, a significantly large portion of the population will not have English as a mother tongue. Based on evidence so far, a large part of that population won't have meaningful English at all. Yet Army ranks will require recruiting in that pool, so the question becomes, how do you manage the language disconnect?

There are actually several potential solutions. One involves forming minority units with bi-lingual officers and NCOs. Another involves providing minimal ESL so the recruits can be functional, but not totally interactive. That solution was used in the 19th century in some multi-lingual empires. The third major option was to expand DLIELC or build a new schoolhouse and spend the first 6 mo to a year of each enlistment learning English. There are advantages and disadvantages of each COA -- no, really! The issue will not go away and the Army and possibly USMC need to be able to deal with it. The Jackson GED program may provide a model.

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Yet Army ranks will require recruiting in that pool, so the question becomes, how do you manage the language disconnect?

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When and how do recruits of the the French Foreign Legion learn French if they do not already speak it?

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Originally Posted by jonSlack

When and how do recruits of the the French Foreign Legion learn French if they do not already speak it?

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They have it literally beat into them. Plus they sing constantly.

See Mouthful of Rocks by Chris Jennings

There are two levels of bunkum to this discussion.

First, American K-12 education is only woefully inadequate if rated against highly selective metrics. When compared with the world population on a capita basis Americans are pretty smart. Select western world, deselect substandard economies, and then forget to correct for ageism and cheating and you put America really far down the list.

Second, I can't remember his name but last time there was a discussion about the lame, crazy, and stupid being recruited and going nowhere, a general quipped that he were one of them. What you do, and where you go is as much smarts as well as opportunities.

There is a thing happening and I've discussed it with other a few times and there are threads somewhere around here about it too. One of the principles of the K-12 education system (and the A&M Land Grant Universities) is the preparation of a soldier force. If those systems are not presenting a wealth of candidates that is one problem. if they are presenting no candidates that is another problem.

Perhaps, a more balanced view. Re-read it recently in connection with Horne, Galula and Trinquier.

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Amazon
Legionnaire: Five Years in the French Foreign Legion (Mass Market Paperback)
by Simon Murray (Author)
-excerpt-
.... With me were two Germans, a Spaniard, a Belgian, and two Dutchmen. Everybody was tense. The tape played in English, and I was informed that I was about to sign a five-year contract and that when l had signed there could be no turning back. The voice that came over the loudspeaker was solemn and had all the gloom of a judge pronouncing sentence of death. I wanted to talk to it, I wanted to talk to anybody who was English, but it was a one-way dialogue and it was decision-making time. We listened in silence and nobody said anything, nobody started shouting to get out, nobody cracked or lost their nerve or gave way to rising panic. Then we filed through into an office one at a time and signed the contract. It comprised three enormous tomes of unintelligible French. Attempts to read it were discouraged and would have been pointless, anyway.

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http://www.amazon.com/Legionnaire-Ye...ref=pd_sim_b_5

PS: selil. Not to start an argument since education is your department and not mine. The 30% figure has nothing to do with US ranking in world education (a separate discussion), but those that can meet Army standards. Perhaps, that figure has not changed since Mich State started as a land grant college. If so, you probably have the stats on that. Another point in the 30% figure is lack of physical and legal health. The article doesn't break out that stat. So, it is also possible that the same % that failed there would have failed in 1940, 1960. Don't have any stats there, but I suspect you do.

Regards
Mike

Further PS - selil. There is some stuff re: your inquiry in War Crimes thread, but I haven't had time to post it - maybe this weekend. Damn day job.

Murray is a bit dated since he signed up in 1960. Today the "kinder and gentler" FFL has formal classes in rudimentary French, both military and common, for non-Francophones while they are at Castelnaudary. As much as possible engages are buddied up with a French speaker in the section who helps during initial training. But one must also learn on one’s own in order to become proficient.

However, as Tom points out, le Caporal-chef will expect you to understand his orders tres rapidement, or there will be consequences desagreables. At a minimum you must quickly learn to be able to properly report to the company commander:

Engage volontaire Rollet,
Trois mois de service,
Premiere compagnie,
Section de Lieutenant Danjou,
A vos ordres mon capitaine.

Sloane's The Naked Soldier is one of the better memoirs of the FFL in recent times. Many books have been written by deserters who obviously have it in their best interest to paint the Legion in as poor a light as possible. However, Legionnaires are never accused of being either Boy Scouts or saints. :D

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Originally Posted by jmm99

PS: selil. Not to start an argument since education is your department and not mine. The 30% figure has nothing to do with US ranking in world education (a separate discussion), but those that can meet Army standards. Perhaps, that figure has not changed since Mich State started as a land grant college. If so, you probably have the stats on that. Another point in the 30% figure is lack of physical and legal health. The article doesn't break out that stat. So, it is also possible that the same % that failed there would have failed in 1940, 1960. Don't have any stats there, but I suspect you do.

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Now wait a second. If you don't tell me about what I do for a living I can't tell you about what you do and dang it.. That just wouldn't be fun.

I had considered the idea of physical fitness and health. With physical fitness there is a huge issue because (I'm told by the PE people) physical education is not about physical fitness anymore, and about life long love of sports. The first not a requirement for watching NASCAR. The second issue I have been told by a recruiter (consider suspect unless somebody can corroborate) is that asthma and other ailments are being diagnosed more now (better testing tools not more asthma) and that decreases the potential pool.

As to education and capability there are huge issues (no student left behind is horrible). It is hard for some people to remember that the school system in the United States is the equivalent of tiny fiefdoms with no real standards across the system. High stakes testing does not equate to standards and in some cases holds back innovation and education. The fiefdom concept is good for creativity, but bad for standardization. The other side of that is a school that produces a creative business entrepreneur who failed never gets credit while a school that produces A+ geniuses gets credit even if they eat out of the garbage can.

THis experiment seems IMHO to be a return to pre-1914 schooling in the UK, not for other ranks, but officers. We then had a plethora of private schools, mainly boarding schools, with Officer Training Corps and a good percentage joined up - for the military or colonial service. I am sure others have written on this theme, from non-military viewpoints.

After the Boer War the British Army had to think hard on the lessons learnt from recruiting a large field army from the industrial masses - who they found were physically weak etc.

Methinks someone has been reading up on the history of recruiting armies.

davidbfpo

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Originally Posted by Tom Odom

They have it literally beat into them. Plus they sing constantly.

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So cadences and an aggressive Combatives program. Problem solved. :D

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Originally Posted by selil

The second issue I have been told by a recruiter (consider suspect unless somebody can corroborate) is that asthma and other ailments are being diagnosed more now (better testing tools not more asthma) and that decreases the potential pool.

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I don't know whether it is better testing methods that is leading to increased diagnoses of asthma, but it was a frequent entry on applicants' medical histories when I was in recruiting (2000-2002).

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Originally Posted by CR6

I don't know whether it is better testing methods that is leading to increased diagnoses of asthma, but it was a frequent entry on applicants' medical histories when I was in recruiting (2000-2002).

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We see it quite often at the ROTC level, too. And all it takes to get someone disqualified is one occurrence of the 'a' word in a medical record...even if it was one incident when the applicant was four years old and has never appeared since.

I suspect that, like many other things, the definition of asthma has been broadened in a diagnostic sense.

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Originally Posted by CR6

I don't know whether it is better testing methods that is leading to increased diagnoses of asthma, but it was a frequent entry on applicants' medical histories when I was in recruiting (2000-2002).

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Which is ironic, because "asthma" in younger people is one of the most misdiagnosed maladies today (according to my children's doctor [an allergist, obtw.]).

Most often, it is a sensitivity or allergy to something, which children often grow out of. It's really frustrating to lose otherwise exceptional applicants to stuff like this. Apparently, the military medical profession has this freakish worst case scenario (which will never, ever happen, obtw) where "but what happens if the soldier gets an asthma attack when they're trying to carry their buddy 20 miles out of harms way, and the US Army has uninvented Medevac, or even ambulances?"

I know several soldiers, including myself, who have served 20+ years with disqualifying conditions, to include in combat, that just don't matter, in a "real" combat situation, versus some MSC doc's fantasy scenario.

Frankly, the medical quals are more or less irrelevant. (Short of terminal cancer).

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I know several soldiers, including myself, who have served 20+ years with disqualifying conditions, to include in combat, that just don't matter, in a "real" combat situation, versus some MSC doc's fantasy scenario.

Frankly, the medical quals are more or less irrelevant. (Short of terminal cancer).

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Thank you 120. Another is minor MH diagnosis. I served w/ ADD while on medications and know that ADD medications are part of the deployment formulary, since as a behavioral Health Section Sergeant I had to help order them. Yet when I went to re-enlist last year, I was told I could not since I was on those same ADD meds, regardless of the fact that my ASVAB score was before I was diagnosed with ADD and that I had already deployed since the diagnosis. I have had to quit my meds for a year so that I can re-enlist next month. Another factor that would really really help the military get quality personnel would be if they quit treating prior service like unwanted lepers. Why is it better to give a wavier to a H.S. drop-out with a criminal record, then it is to re-train a prior service soldier that tried the “real-world” and decided he preferred military service? Grrrrr, better step of my soap box and take a tranquilizer before I break something.
Reed

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Originally Posted by 120mm

Frankly, the medical quals are more or less irrelevant. (Short of terminal cancer).

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They could also stand to dump that damned PUHLES coding and get real with the current definitions such as

P - general physical capacity
U - range of motion and general efficiency
H - defects of the ear
L - range of motion and general efficiency
E - defects of the eye (assuming you only have one :eek:)
S - This factor concerns personality, emotional stability, and psychiatric diseases