ISR and business as usual
This one is really interesting when you place it against the Army/USMC versus USAF debate on COIN
Quote:
Pentagon battle breaks out over a spy plane
Defense Secretary Gates wants more unmanned Predator aircraft in Iraq. But the Air Force worries about the long-term viability of the spy plane program.
By Peter Spiegel, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
March 21, 2008
WASHINGTON -- Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates has ordered the Air Force to put nearly all of its unmanned Predator aircraft into the skies over the Middle East, forcing the service to take steps that officers worry could hobble already-stressed drone squadrons.
Pressure from the Defense secretary in recent months has nearly doubled the number of Predators available to help hunt insurgents and find roadside bombs in Iraq. But it has forced air commanders into a scramble for crews that officers said could hurt morale and harm the long-term viability of the Predator program.
Some officers said pressure from Gates resulted in one plan that could have taken the Air Force down a path similar to the German Luftwaffe, which cut back training in World War II to get more pilots in the air.
"That was the end of their air force," said Col. Chris Chambliss, commander of the Air Force's Predator wing. The Air Force plan, presented to the military leadership in January, eventually was scaled back.
and this last tidbit is just priceless:
Quote:
In the debate over control of the fast-growing fleet, the Air Force argues that only qualified pilots should fly airplanes that drop bombs and fire missiles. But Army ground commanders maintain they most need and use the streaming video to plan and execute their ground operations.
Heh. Once upon a time, I got tasked to
develop a series of options to modify a unit Table of Organization and Equipment. Did that; prepared four options, change nothing (which won; fancy that...) plus three others. One was far smaller than the current version, causing my boss to say "...you're suggesting to a General in the US Army that he should give up flags and spaces in peacetime? Ain't gonna happen!"
Some things appear to be universal... ;)
Not to mention that Bill Sweetman misses the mark.
The Army was playing with UAVs thirty years ago -- and has been since. the USAF didn't want anything to do with them for many years...
Yep, the Air Force did pick up the Predator from the CIA -- but Entropy apparently missed the fact that that the Army was the initial uniformed buyer of the Predator -- and DoD made them give it to the AF(LINK)...
The Army also took it a step further (LINK) --
note the buy is for 132 of the birds...
Oh and the Army operates its Predators with non-rated NCOs... :D
Sort of academic, isn't it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Entropy
Ken,
Predator was a joint program under DARO until it reached LRIP and the program was managed by the Navy, not the Army. Your link is incorrect. I'll troll my link archive for sourcing tomorrow if you wish.
Any DoD program is rife with misapprehensions and confusion not to mention a convoluted development history -- we can over-engineer anything -- but it's sort of irrelevant, we are where we are. Let's just leave it at the CIA saw the promise, weaponized the bird and the services, plural, came after while acknowledging that the Warrior is a Predator clone.
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As for the Warrior, it and the USAF Predator will be merged and managed as a joint program starting this October.
Pity if true and I don't doubt that it is. Whether it should be is another story because Joint Programs with wings seem to have a tendency to come under USAF control -- to the detriment of guys on the ground...
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...If the Army had a pilot surplus, they'd probably be using them instead.
Possibly but probably not. Still, admittedly state of the art dependent.
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Oh, and during Vietnam the Air Force ran a quite large and secret UAV program called Firefly that flew almost 3500 missions of various types including real-time data-link video. Unfortunately, the program died after the war from the hostility of the pilot mafia as well as the program's extreme secrecy. Still, what the Air Force has historically done with UAV's goes way beyond the "playing" done by the Army.
It wasn't that secret, pictures abounded at the time. I had to take a team to go recover one that fell off a DC130 northwest of Hue. We got to it before Clyde and sling loaded it out with a Chinook. That was not a good day...
As Slapout pointed out they all sprang from ADA drone targets; Firefly was derived from the Firebee which was both an Air Force and Navy bird. That too is academic. The issue is providing support to troops on the ground; as you also said:
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One might argue that everything is ultimately land-centric
True dat. :D