Having practiced - and experienced - the art in
both places, I'll simply say that in my view there's virtually no difference in practice with, if any difference, that of the Corps being slightly less tolerant of minor transgressions.
I'll leave the narrative construct definition to the scientific types...:wry:
Been kinda sitting out enjoying the discussion
but I'd like to throw something out there and see what comes of it. As Ken noted too often much of military writing is really overdone. By this I mean the same thing stated sixteen different ways with a few differences in vocabulary but in general presenting the same things. This may be effective in that it allows the reader several different ways of looking at the same thing and thus they are more likely to find something which reflects that which the themselves already believe to be the case. I think it may als be one of our greatest issues to overcome in trying to really address change in our perspective organizations. If you look at it on the outside it seems like what it really does is say what it wants to say without really requiring one to change their overall direction. Many of those here could probably bring out examples of how often revolutionary or even simply evolutionary ideas about how things should work have been sidetracked if not completely averted though a simple pick what you like approach at how to address doctrine.
(Here's where I really go out on a limb )
Narrative to me has always been about a general direction not really about any specific actions or guidelines. A common understanding if you would of Command Intent. Some of the other discussions have dealt with strategic policy or guidance and where it comes from and it is here where I think we really begin to work our way back to narrative and guidance through doctrine and /or manuals. What do you (the entities in question) believe your overall mission is. Then there must be a mutually accepted version of that what throughout all levels of the organization. Then such things as the hows and how much are determined and shared through release of materials such as manuals, directives, doctrine in general. Finally there is the perception and reception or rejection of said materials by those charged with it's implementation. How and if they receive it will determine what the end actions are in any given operation.
As long as a general direction that all parties can accept is found then it would seem that materials created along that vein will be more effective in sharing the overall vision and thus be more effective in the long run.
Of any organization out there one should probably accept the fact that defense is one area where the most undeniable need for being able to serve a purpose greater than oneself is not only recommended but in the end necessary to truly achieve the purpose for its existance.
I'll stop for now and give others a chance to straighten me out :wry:
I think that's exactly the point on both your counts
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Germ
Can you give an example of overdone doctrine/narrative?
I think commander's intent is not the focus here. Commander's intent is about visualizing the execution and end state of a plan. It's explicit. The cultural narrative I'm referring to should form the basis for guiding principal when commander's intent doesn't fill the bill. It's about common beliefs, guiding values, what makes us tick. If we were computers, commander's intent would be a computer program. Cultural narrative would be a big chunk of the operating system that allows the computer program to run.
This is one thing which I think constantly eludes the process of developing written guidance for operations. First yes as a soldier if I describe commanders intent it is as you say, however I would propose that when seeking to define the how too's and thus the basis for manuals, etc we need to go much deeper and actually think much more broadly about the who's and whats we are working with. Lets take religion for an example. Would you say that the narratives drive a given body of believers or the texts, or would it be easier to say that the texts more explicitly define the narratives.
We can go into example's if you would like but I would guess you know what I mean. Or in politics is there a greater following to an outcome or to a given set of talking points which are there to maintain a common (narrative) and what if anything defines what that narrative is.
I say all this to lead into where Marc speaks about informal narratives
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marct
Hi Guys,
Germ, let me toss out another distinction that may help with this oh so fuzzy term: formal and informal narratives. Formal narratives are projected by a culture into material/perceptual reality; think books, doctrine, public rituals, commercials, rules and regulations, etc. This is the type of "guidance" Ron is talking about. Informal narratives, which are often much "darker" and more powerful, are the stories and interpretations that are spread about, usually via oral culture.
Marc
Informal narratives such as those which reflect a direction for one's life or how to approach relationship's, what not to do in finance, literally stories which describe without detailing the ways forward carry much more weight in the real world than many would like to abmit. Tis may in large par be due to human nature in seeking the "easier" way to do things but personally I think it relates largely to our history and culture's. What if anything is language but a tool which offers more long lasting and definitive ways to express opinions, requirements, lessons, lifes mysteries to future generations. This doesn't change the necessity of having a guiding premise or standard (a narrative if you will).
If we try to separate the hows too's from the why's then it will constantly be a re-learning process. And when directions or instructions are provided without the context of why they are and what they represent (books withut pictures:D) then we have done exactly that.
This is a very round about way of saying you can't train to good narratives because you must live them. Orders and directives can be taught because they are developed. IMHO real narratives with the power to change simply exist naturally and the only thing we can do is teach ourselves how to see them and thus work with them.
I know that probably made less sense than before but at least I try :o
Got the link so I'll be reading it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Germ
Thanks gents. I saw the references at small wars journal don't include "Leading Marines." I'll leave off of the discussion for now, with the hope that while I'm furiously searching for a text that discusses narratives in the terms marc used earlier, the two of you will have a chance to browse "Leading Marines." I think you'll like it. (Ron, it's a mid 90's pub so you may not have encountered it before.)
Marc, if you have a single text in mind that discusses grand, core and cultural narratives, help me out!
http://www.fs.fed.us/fire/doctrine/g...ng_marines.pdf
I'll be reading it this week , but right off hand the Forward seems to identify it as a core narrative, meat to express expectations and consideration but without implicit directives.
I'll check back when I'm done with it.
Many assumptions are in place here...
1. we can control a narrative...
2. that it is received in the manner we intend it (even if our actions match)
3. that the narrative is somehow important to achieving success
4. some of the same principles used when selling soap apply here
I hear military officers say quite often that "..if we could only get the press to stop writing about the bad things..." My response to that is - if they stop, will that change what is happening?
The root of the problem is that a narrative is developed over time by actions, and the form it takes may not be the form we intend (sometimes it may even be better)...in our culture of instant gratification (or "I only have 15 months to make myself look like an innovative, adaptable, and successful commander"), we are not giving it time to develop... matching actions to a narrative will most likely accelerate acceptance (perhaps), but (and it is a big BUT)...we have no control (no matter how much we perceive we do) over how an individual will interpret our narrative...
What we need to do is rethink information...its uses...its interpretation...etc...this thread has sparked my interest enough to start to conduct some research on the narrative theme...I wonder what hard research exists on the topic?