Scoti is Gaelic for Irish, per research copied here
I continue to stake my long term historic position that the oldest I can find use of Scoti means and refers to Irish/being Irish/of Ireland.
Thus I use the analogy that "Scot Irish" in linguistics is the same as saying "Irish Irish" when translated.
The geopolitics of Northern Ireland are much later in history and are not considered at all in my older research dating back to Roman times.
I appreciate your comments but disagree to the extent I have just re-explained here. All points of view are welcome, but mine is driven in part by family history...circa 1400 an Irish priest named Gillis, which line my Mother was descended from, was sent to the Highlands.
There as was common in frontier priest postings he married and had 12 children, while continuing to practice his vocation as a Roman Catholic Priest.
My Great Grandfather Donal Gillis was a Cumberland Presbyterian minister in Elba, Alabama. After the Civil War his area had lost so many men in that war that his Presbyterian and a local "hard shell" Baptist Church agreed to merge to have enough people to support one unified church. Donal Gillis won over the Baptist minister in a coin toss, then as the Probate Judge of Coffee Co., Ala. Judge Gillis appointed the ex-Baptist minister he just defeated for the merged church pastorate as his Chief Clerk of the Probate Court!
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The earliest accounts of the Scotti are from Roman sources, particularly Ammianus Marcellinus who describes their relentless raids on Roman Britain. The Scotti are confirmed by later sources to be the Gaelic speaking inhabitants of Ireland.
Scoti or Scotti was the generic Latin name used by the Romans to describe those who sailed from Ireland to conduct raids on Roman Britain. It was thus synonymous with the modern term Gaels. It is not believed that any Gaelic groups called themselves Scoti in ancient times, except when referring to themselves in Latin
In the 400s, these raiders established the kingdom of Dál Riata in the Highlands. As this kingdom expanded in size and influence, the name was applied to all its subjects – hence the modern terms Scot, Scottish and Scotland.
The origin of the word Scoti or Scotti is uncertain. Charles Oman derives it from the Gaelic word Scuit (a man cut-off), suggesting that a Scuit was not a general word for the Gael but a band of outcast raiders.[2] In the 19th century Aonghas MacCoinnich of Glasgow proposed that Scoti was derived from the Gaelic word Sgaothaich
The Irish however helped Christianize Scotland
Mike:
Interesting theory...but Scotland was moved into Christianity by Irish coming up into Scotland, which otherwise was thinly people by ex-Scandanavians, the vikings and such.
George
PS - This whole "topic" misses the mark in that America's ethnic make up was done in phases...but at first we were people by "everybody"...Maryland was a Roman Catholic religious colony in the beginning...Pennsylvania was a Quaker colony....New York was earl on Dutch...the Carolinas and much of Virginia were Scot Irish...Georgia was largely, initially English bread thieves (some of my early on Singletons landed at Savanna and were 7 and 14 year indentured white slaves, bread thieves)...Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas were largely Spanish, then French, then "British"...more Scot Irish folks, etc. George.
But, the Scots helped Christianize Ireland ...
Hi George,
Patrick was born at Banna Venta Berniae, in what is today the county of Cumbria. Cumbria is about as close to Scotland as you can get without being a blue-woaded Pict. Now, I have stretched it a bit (a few klicks) to claim Patrick as a Scot. Some Scots claim him as a native of Sthrathclyde, which included Cumbria (see map in the Wiki). These Sthrathclydeans roughly correspond to the western Scottish Lowlanders, who have been a substantial input over the centuries into Ulster.
Patrick's church was very much centered at Armagh, Ulster - still a cathedral town to both the Church of Ireland and the Roman Church. Columba, of Donegal, Ulster, is the best known missionary to Scotland; although more came from the Strathclyde region (e.g., Ninian of Whithorn, Galloway) - the areas just south and north of Hadrian's Wall were centers of Christianity in Roman Britain. Columba (7 Dec 521 – 9 Jun 597) labored well before the Scandahoovians became a nuisance in Scotland.
Scotland was well enough populated by Gaels and Picts in Columba's time. We reach some firmer ground in seeing Scotland's as an organized entity in the time of Kenneth MacAlpin (ca.810-858), who probably was a Pictish-Gael mix (IMO; if he's your ancestor, feel free to stake out your own ground). The formation of Scotland was, therefore, a fusional process (the Vikings also hit the beaches in MacAlpin's time):
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The Pictish institution of kingship provided the basis for merger with the Gaelic Alpin dynasty. The meeting of King Constantine and Bishop Cellach at the Hill of Belief near the (formerly Pictish) royal city of Scone in 906 cemented the rights and duties of Picts on an equal basis with those of Gaels (pariter cum Scottis). Hence the change in styling from King of the Picts to King of Alba. The legacy of Gaelic as the first national language of Scotland does not obscure the foundational process in the establishment of the Scottish kingdom of Alba.
Now, this long circular digression does have a point - which is agreement with your ultimate point:
Quote:
from GLS
PS - This whole "topic" misses the mark in that America's ethnic make up was done in phases...but at first we were people by "everybody"...Maryland was a Roman Catholic religious colony in the beginning...Pennsylvania was a Quaker colony....New York was earl on Dutch...the Carolinas and much of Virginia were Scot Irish...Georgia was largely, initially English bread thieves (some of my early on Singletons landed at Savanna and were 7 and 14 year indentured white slaves, bread thieves)...Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas were largely Spanish, then French, then "British"...more Scot Irish folks, etc. George.
ultimately a fusion process, which still continues.
Regards,
Mike
Bellicosity/ethnic blends names, etc.
Mike:
Thanks for your very scholarly agreement...overlooking my many typos...arthritis in hands is worsening despite evening applications of good SINGLETON Single Malt Scotch!
One of our daughters (two degrees from Vanderbilt U. in Nashville) did her Vandy overseas, long 6 month semester at University of Edinburgh. She is a Shakespear Scholar but took some electives, too, in Gaelic History and Culture, which give her, more than me, an educated view of the era(s) and events in both Scotland and Ireland (one course she took at U. of Edinburth was about Gaelic Lingusitic Culture and History) long before the late 1300's migration of my ancestor, the Roman Catholic Priest named Gillis, my Mother's line.
Raw individualism and bellicosisty are in fact historic traits of the Gaelic speaking populations whereever found, including in coastal France.
One of the great tragedies of the American Civil War was the decimation of Northern and Southern Irish (Gaelic speaking) troops in major battles in Virginia, particularly. The South had very many Roman Catholic Gaelic speaking troops, as did the North.
My Great Grandfather Donal Gillis was wounded by a cannon ball to his right knee in Pickett's Charge at Gettysburg. He of course permanently lost the use of his right leg from the knee down.
His line of Gillises landed at Wilmington, North Carolina 1799, having sailed from Liverpool, England. I have the 1700's era key wound engraved silver watch his forebears had when they landed in North Carolina. These Gillises came from the Highlands of Scotland, with the oldest traceable one being from Ireland, the Gillis who was a Roman Catholic priest sent to Scotland in the late 1300s.
Some of my maternal Great Grandmother's line, Lightfoots and Brennen's, came to the US via Philadelphia, PA from England...and from Ireland.
We even have some Italian ancestors among another diminsion of my Mother's side of the family, who landed in Charleston, SC area well before the American Revolutionary War and changed their name to "Cox" from a name I can no longer remember how to spell in Italian. Likewise we had some Italian Bonsalls on Mom's side of the family, her Great Grandmother having been a Bonsall.
Melting pot we are...but in Afghanistan and Pakistan stand offish tribalism is a real problem, unable to learn how to cherish cultures while still learnign to live with and get along with others from different tribes, cultures, and backgrounds.
Have a good day.