Nope, it was the right wingers this time
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/11/gns_porn_071105/
Quote:
Dozens of religious and anti-pornography groups have complained to Congress and Defense Secretary Robert Gates that a Pentagon board set up to review magazines and films is allowing sales of material that Congress intended to ban.
"They're saying 'we're not selling stuff that's sexually explicit' … and we say it's pornography," says Donald Wildmon, head of the American Family Association, a Christian anti-pornography group.
And the left comes to the rescue, hell I might start donating to ACLU.
Quote:
Nadine Strossen, a New York Law School professor who heads the American Civil Liberties Union, says the law effectively censors what troops get to read in remote areas or combat zones. "We're asking these people to risk their lives to defend our Constitution's principles … and they're being denied their own First Amendment rights to choose what they read," she said.
Heh. Bull Halsey had it right...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Uboat509
Ridiculous... Personally, I have always that thought that it was either laziness or stupidity or a combination of both... SFC W
"Regulations were meant to be intelligently disregarded."
Took me about two years to figure out that what you say is too often the case and I gleefully proceeded to ignore a great many for another 40 plus years -- on both sides (even the dark side has a few party line hewers) -- and had a lot of fun doing it... :D
Hunter's out to lunch, like most Pols.
you can't pay much attention to anything those squirrels say.
The Armed forces are a reflection of the society from which they come; same percentage of crooks, liars, con-men, eagle scouts, gay, straight, totally irreligious, evangelicals, jews, catholics etc. etc.
There are a few such as Hunter describes, the vast majority are not. There are a few who are offended by gays, the vast majority could care less as long as it doesn't become an issue.
Tequila's got it right.
Aberrations always occur when humans are involved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CR6
Maybe I'm out of it since I spend my life at echelons above reality now, but as little as eight years ago hostility towards anything or anyone perceived as homosexual was prevasive. Case in point, the murder of PFC Barry Winchell at Campbell back in 1999.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...l,%20Barry%20L.
As long ago as the 1950s through the late 70s in a number of infantry units, both Marine and Airborne, there were always Gay guys around and they were never a problem. Best Mess Sergeant I ever knew was as as gay as the proverbial three dollar bill and was campy as well -- Everyone in the 504 knew he was gay, Colonel on down. He spent his weekends in Raleigh and his weeks feeding great chow.
I have known literally dozens of them, ranging from (probably) an Army three star through (certainly) an SF LTC, a couple of Army Majors a Marine Captain and a whole bunch of lower ranks.
Not one ever had or was a problem.
Winchell was an aberration in a Division not noted for the greatest discipline in the world (and in which I served twice when it was still on jump status).
There have been others elsewhere and such things will always occur; they aren't the norm.
I understand and respect your points...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ken White
As long ago as the 1950s through the late 70s in a number of infantry units, both Marine and Airborne, there were always Gay guys around and they were never a problem. Best Mess Sergeant I ever knew was as as gay as the proverbial three dollar bill and was campy as well -- Everyone in the 504 knew he was gay, Colonel on down. He spent his weekends in Raleigh and his weeks feeding great chow.
I have known literally dozens of them, ranging from (probably) an Army three star through (certainly) an SF LTC, a couple of Army Majors a Marine Captain and a whole bunch of lower ranks.
Not one ever had or was a problem.
Winchell was an aberration in a Division not noted for the greatest discipline in the world (and in which I served twice when it was still on jump status).
There have been others elsewhere and such things will always occur; they aren't the norm.
My point, using the extreme and disturbing case of PFC Winchell as an example, is that my short 15 years in the military I have witnessed or heard of more hostility towards the idea of openly gay personnel than acceptance of it. I'm not so naive as to think they are not serving. A guy in my platoon at airborne school went on to become the first openly gay member of the AZ state legislature a few years later.
That being said, when DADT was a big issue in the early 90s, the hostility towards the idea of openly gay guys serving brought out a lot of ugliness whenever I heard the topic discussed among soldiers at Bragg. 15 years and two wars later, maybe it's not such a big deal anymore.
The talk has been fairly consistent over the years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CR6
My point, using the extreme and disturbing case of PFC Winchell as an example, is that my short 15 years in the military I have witnessed or heard of more hostility towards the idea of openly gay personnel than acceptance of it. I'm not so naive as to think they are not serving. A guy in my platoon at airborne school went on to become the first openly gay member of the AZ state legislature a few years later.
That being said, when DADT was a big issue in the early 90s, the hostility towards the idea of openly gay guys serving brought out a lot of ugliness whenever I heard the topic discussed among soldiers at Bragg. 15 years and two wars later, maybe it's not such a big deal anymore.
So has the action -- virtually nil other than a very, very occasional eruption like the Winchell incident. That one, like many in the civilian world, as likely as not brought about by our incompetent media concentrating on a non-event on slow news days.
Troops talk, bitch and moan. Like civilians, they'll harp on the topic du jour. Like the civilian world, some will act on their ranting. They will also smokestack and talk a lot of trash -- most of it needs to be noted but it rarely leads to much action. What they do, as opposed to what they say, matters. In the Army, decent, sensible leadership contains it, that simple.
I've got a serving son and another who was a Falcon (his brother and I have never held that against him ;) ) and I live in a military town and talk to the kids occasionally so I stay reasonably abreast of the current attitudes. Todays kids are at least one notch above the 90s variant and about three or four notches above those around when I retired 30 years ago. You don't even wanta contemplate the 1950 version on the couth and acceptance scale... :eek:
Your last paragraph is very appropriate and correct, I think, attitudes are softening on the topic in the civilian realm, so too will they in the Green Machine. Reflection of the society from which they come...
The most significant problem with unfettered Gay acceptance, I suspect, will be on the subject and in the area of married enlisted quarters. Some of the more forceful wives can decide a bad example for their children is being set then the FSG and community honchos will really have fun... :D