Having written about shotguns before, nice - two thumbs up!
That little Frag round deserves it's own footnote
http://www.defensereview.com/1_31_2004/FRAG%2012.pdf
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Having written about shotguns before, nice - two thumbs up!
That little Frag round deserves it's own footnote
http://www.defensereview.com/1_31_2004/FRAG%2012.pdf
I think that, in practice, a marchausse or gendarmerie is not quite the same thing as the US military's Military Police or Security Forces.
A shotgun can be a good tool in the toolbox. Just ensure individuals are properly trained on it. I distinctly remember some folks who replaced me in Ramadi in '04 complaining that they only had a limited amount of shotguns...and one of their "moto" Majors insisted on carrying one of them himself. That's probably not the appropriate use of a shotgun, unless he was the primary breacher for the battalion.
Also, has anyone considered the Saiga-12? :D
http://en.ria.ru/mlitary_news/20120131/171045859.html
Quote:
Izhmash, the manufacturer of the legendary Kalashnikov AK-47, will supply Saiga-12 semi-automatic smoothbore shotguns to a number of police forces in the U.S., Izhmash reported on its web site on Tuesday.
The contracts were signed at the Shot Show exhibition in Las Vegas on January 17-20. The first Saiga-12 deliveries to U.S. law enforcement were already made in January 2012, Izhmash General Director Maxim Kuzyuk said.
At the exhibition, Izhmash also signed an agreement on exclusive imports to the U.S. market with Russian Weapon Company and an agreement with Fime Group as Izhmashs partner for manufacturing classic firearm models.
Really? The SPAS-12 dates back to 1979. And if you've seen the original Jurassic Park" movie from 1993, you've seen a SPAS-12. Works fine against dinosaurs.:wry:
I think the key here is training. I don't think that there are enough man-hours devoted to good-quality rifle/carbine handling and marksmanship now. Issuing weapons without issuing knowledge is silly.
The "value of life" conversation, as well as the "Iraqi Army/ANA in America role-reversal", definitely has been done quite a bit. However, in either case, I don't think that the majority of individuals will know exactly what to do in either situation, until they are actually confronted by it. Also, that exact moment when things go from "policing" to "combat" is often a bit fuzzy.
Even though I’ve never been one of those Americans—“Matthew’s a tolerable American!” as someone who isn’t quite clear on what the word ‘compliment’ means once proclaimed in my presence—but even I don’t know why an American would need to know anything about imported scatterguns. It would be like an Italian cyclist riding a Cannondale or something. :D
What about the Berettas, the Benellis, the Franchis? Italy is rightly considered to be a country of the shotgun, not the rifle, as a battuta di caccia was more about fowl or rabbits then deer.
Anyway a modern high-quality semi-automatic shotgun is as a modern full-suspension MTB a fine piece of modern technology, even an American one ;)
Hey Matt,
Actually, the idea is fairly sound if you consider why the folks at Colt put a "forward assist" on an (ahem) otherwise fully functioning semi and full auto weapon - the M-16 (most of us wondered about that since the early 70s). A semi-automatic shotgun is prone to jams for all the reasons Kiwigrunt posted and having the pump in place is remotely (ass-backwards) the same as having a forward assist. You can either slam the round home (bad idea if time is on your side), or choose to eject the jammed round (real good idea even if time isn't on your side :D ).
In closing, I wouldn't trade my Winchester 1200 for any of those fancy Italian or Russian works of art. If it ain't broke.... :cool:
I would not want a shotgun as my primary. Although there are shotguns that take magazines, ammunition management and reload speed would suck. Now, searching small boats, or small rooms with lots of people, ok, but I would think a sub gun would do the job better. I have only trained a few times in shoot houses, but it was enough to give me the opinion that a shotgun is big and heavy, and shells go all over when I get freaked out or excited, when I really just want them to go in the gun. I need to learn to load without flipping it over lol. Too bad about flechette rounds. Then, you would have something. I could not manage differentiating between lethal and less than, under stress. I mean, would you look down at the round? only have those rounds in certain loops on your gear? It gives me the creepy crawlies.
My original thought was that rolling two functions into one gun (a semi-auto for heavy loads and a pump for less lethal loads) could lead to unfortunate situations both ways. But it does make sense to think of it as a semi-auto that’s easier to clear.
You could also deal with the rate of fire vs. jamming dialectic by buying up some Ithaca 37s. Though I assume a different set of unfortunate situations might ensue.
At Aberdeen they challenged us to a skeet competition against the MPs on base, and the folks with over and under shotguns were less fatigued and had near perfect 25 target matches.
The 8-shot model 37 is essentially a Winchester 1200 minus the bayonet mount and a very respectable piece of American Iron.
The often mistaken myth about free recoil reduction. Some just get a dependable and very heavy weapon (approx. 10% reduction in recoil) and then there are others who cut the stock down and drill holes into every available area of the barrel and choke, effectively reducing the overall weight of the weapons and the felt recoil is in fact worse :D
Stan!
FPSRussia and the AA-12 Fully Automatic Shotgun on the YouTube :wry:
Hey Steve,
I was almost enjoying the video til he tried to cut the door in half and said that sierra :DQuote:
"Keep this mind, don't try this at home... I'm a professional Russian!"
I especially enjoyed the demonstration on how to install the barrel choke :rolleyes:
I believe WE have already had that patent design since 1898 however :cool:
Quote:
John Moses Browning, the legendary American gun designer, invented the first practical self-loading shotgun in 1898. It must be noted, that at the time the autoloading shotgun was something of absolute novelty, and the task of designing such gun was severely complicated by the fact that the switch over from black powder to smokeless ammunition was well under way, and general quality of shotgun ammunition was rather uneven,to say the least. Nevertheless, Browning managed to make his prototype model work, and work well.