that you side more with Wilf than Sageman...
Sageman was merely an academic taking a moment to diagnose the data that he had before him...Wilf is a soldier...He puts it all in context...
v/r
Mike
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that you side more with Wilf than Sageman...
Sageman was merely an academic taking a moment to diagnose the data that he had before him...Wilf is a soldier...He puts it all in context...
v/r
Mike
I just want to know how these two points-of-view can be integrated. They certainly seem contradictory to me at first glance. It seems that a basic lesson of the Civil Rights movement was that sympathy and empathy were major components of change. I am trying to understand how this point of view would have advanced the Civil Rights movement:
you'll have to discern for yourself what is truth...
Mike et al who disdain psyops and civil affiars, mere military power is not and will not by itself work. If you defy the reality of tactical, simple psyops used both against the Japanese in the jungles of the Pacific, simple loudspeakers...used both by the Japanese and our Allies...ditto same process via battlefield use of speaker psyops by the North Koreans in Korean War, then you are the get go are missing part of the total mix it took to win, only in the case of WW II where our commitment was nationally absolutely with the draft, etc., and go to the less absolute process of the Korean War where began the "incremental" 50+ year long Cold War mindset and process.
I'd like to resort to carpet bombing with no holds barred in Northern Pakistan and major areas of Afghanistan but it did not work, long term shortly after 911 in Afghanistan, and feeds the enemy's psyops if we tried it again now.
We all agree on one hard fact. Muslims are different and we are not about to change the goofy to us moraes and value system (whatever that means) of the enemy that runs across so many fabled, ficional, as well as factual histories of a tribal,ethnic, cultural level as to be like trying to hold your breath while taking an around the world trip.
Mere military power? I can think of countless campaigns and operations where PSYOPS and CA played no part, what is more there is not a huge raft of evidence that PSYOPS have ever consistently rewarded it's returns.
If playing cries of hungry baby or tortured animal over loud speakers, breaks will and makes sleep difficult then "hurrah" and we should do it, as long as it costs us very little and gets verifiable results.
We is relative. Many feel that there is an American living inside each and every person on this Earth. Maybe there is :D Just ask Paul Wolfowitz or GW.
Here's what Thomas Jefferson said about it...
"War is an instrument entirely inefficient toward redressing wrong;
and multiplies, instead of indemnifying losses."
—Thomas Jefferson, 1810
Right now, I would submit that we are going about things in the most inefficient way possible. In the end, it drives down to money. That concerns me. When I look around to where we've had success, often times I see small groups of advisors working under the radar. What they do is cheap, quiet, and it seems to work.
But, I'm just a tanker that ended up jumping out of airplanes. I'm probably just confused. I did bump my head a lot.
v/r
Mike
Military thinkers are generally very good historians, but they tend to marginalize literature as "just fiction." I think it's also important to study a culture's literature to increase cultural awareness. When I read Fouad Ajami's "Dream Palace of the Arabs" I was struck by his constant references to poets and novelists, e.g., the Syrian exile Adonis (pen name). After reading the poems of Adonis I do feel like I have a better of the alienation of the modern Arab.
Just to be certain the quote from me you provided is taken in context, from that same post of mine there was this:
""most of those times, the entire operation was fouled up partly due to said zeal overriding common sense, partly because we did not understand the major defining facets of the culture we were operating in, partly as a generic result of inadequate training and education precipitating strategic, operational and really dumb tactical errors -- and once we were there partly because people expended a lot of angst over the minutia of cultural differences that they were never going to really understand -- and did not need to...
...
Adequate cultural knowledge is not simple but it is easy, just recall everything learned in Kindergarten and apply common sense, read a bit, ask sensible questions and learn and heed the big issues -- realizing that one cannot ever answer some questions and does not need to do so.""
Just to clarify, all those comments apply to conventional military forces in combat in an alien culture. Note I said conventional -- those comments do NOT apply to forces, military or otherwise, that seek to bond with alien cultures for various reasons. In other words, in the US context, my comment applies to combat units such as Infantry or other Battalions and Cavalry Squadrons reasonably correctly employed for the mission, they do not apply to Special Forces, Civil Affairs, PsyOps and the like.
Most importantly, there is absolutely no correlation of the point of view I expressed with the US Civil rights movement. None.
Great essay on how we need to improve some of the terminology we use with the Muslim world.
IO Sphere, Fall 06: Choosing Words Carefully: Language to Help Fight Islamic Terrorism
This is an excellent point, and it is being used all the time in Iraq, say by RCT/BCT cmdrs who sit down with the sheiks and uses stories to convey a particular message they need to get across. One commander told the story of the king who had a magical sword over his head as he sat on his throne, where the sword was there to ensure he did right by his people. He was speaking to a local sheik, and trying to get the point across, subtly, that the sheik would be in store for a little pain if he didn't do right and the sword plummeted down.
We don't do as well when it is a mass-produced message though.
In contrast to bounded rationality....sorry if it makes your brain hurt :)
We routinely disqualify testimony that would plead for extenuation. That is, we are so persuaded of the rightness of our judgement as to invalidate evidence that does not confirm us in it. Nothing that deserves to be called truth could ever be arrived at by such means.
-Marilynne Robinson, The Death of Adam
There are times when you choose to believe something that would normally be considered absolutely irrational. It doesn't mean that it is actually irrational, but it is surely not rational. Perhaps it is suprarationality: reason beyond the normal definitions of fact or data-based logic; something that makes sense only if you can see a bigger picture of reality. Maybe that is where faith fits in. -Wm. Paul Young, The Shack
People who use (the words) I, my and mine have a greater risk of a heart attack," he said. "My conclusion is a more self-centered attitude makes our minds become more narrow and then even a small, tiny problem becomes unbearable. There are thousands, millions of people facing similar problems. Don't take oneself as the center of the world. Think of others, then your health will become better. That's my medicine. -Dalia Lama at Berkeley this weekend.
As a man in the Recon, paratroopers learn tried and true techniques to counter this fog and friction of life. When traversing through restricted terrain, when facing seemingly impassible obstacles, when the dark of night refuses to shed light, we stop, take a knee, listen to our surroundings, whisper amoungst each other lest the enemy hear us, pull out our map and compass, and determine our position. Then, we determine direction and distance to the next waypoint. We get back up and resume walking again.
v/r
Mike