In addition to the above...
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Originally Posted by
Culpeper
No, I don't think the Israelis were innocent. And I don't think the Americans were innocent as well...
We can probably agree on that. We'd probably disagree on apportionment -- I have no problem with such a disagreement and, as they say, we should be able to do that agreeably.
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...The bottom line is the USS Liberty shouldn't have been where it was...
However, not in agreement on that. International waters, the burden of positive identification was on the attacker. Period.
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...The fact that units of Israelis recognized the ship and other units didn't is no different than any other circumstances surrounding any other friendly fire incident...
Perhaps, we don't know. We do know very few friendly fire incidents with excellent visibility and surface contact occur over a two day period.
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...It is sensationalized because it involves Jews making a mistake. Any time Israel makes a mistake it conjures up all sorts of conspiracy theories and smear campaigns.
I've noticed that. I've also notice undue defensiveness on those topics. That does not mean I‘m disposed toward or agree with either course.
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Such is that the USS Liberty was deliberately attacked with extreme prejudice,...
Neither you or I know whether that's the case or not. You seem to not and I know I do not buy that; I think it was simply a screwup -- but a particularly egregious and inexscusable one.
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... The only elephant in the room whereas the USS Liberty is concerned is speculation. Something we try to avoid on the SWC [facetious and emphasis added].
Really? Hard to tell sometimes. Beyond speculation is the location of the ship and the time taken for the incident to occur; every source pretty much agrees on those two items.
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How many Americans were killed and maimed by friendly fire in Vietnam during the same days of the Six Day War?
A bunch, probably about the same number; who knows.
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What is fascinating is that there is enough information readily available to answer the number of casualties and damage of the USS Liberty. Researching friendly fire incidents in Vietnam during the same time period might be a little more difficult to obtain.
No question. Fortunately, we don't have to do that because it has absolutely no relevance. As you know, the stats are somewhere, it's just digging them out that is a pain.
Thus, I find it surprising that you cannot see the very significant difference simply due to the public nature of the Liberty incident. I've seen the biggest complaint voiced by most with whom I've discussed the whole thing revolve around the actions of Johnson and MacNamara. I know those two are my big gripe.
The US screwed up, the Isaraelis screwed up a bit more IMO and those two dangerous people at the top of the US power structure capped it all. I can understand comm glitches, I can understand overreaction in combat and I can forgive both those things. Dishonesty above the normal political BS in high places I don't accept.
It isn't the incident, it's the coverup.