The Fracture I describe is not about Left and Right
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Originally Posted by
OfTheTroops
Do I read you all correctly?
So Rome's empire resulted from a unified "total war" political will built on manifest destiny and Perseverance?
America's political will is fractured or has a foundation in at least two houses as described in the ariculate Rhodes analysis?
We probably are conducting FID but it seem to be more probably is less. Whats the alternative? Occupation, colonization, punish the innocent and the guilty in a country by leaving it destroyed, genocide.....FID under the guise of COIN and Stability and Reconstruction satisfies the political will and leaves USA to believe we are as great as we think we are. As my insightful interpreter asked "what gives the US the right to do these things (Iraq Afghanistan)?"
Nor is it about Democrat and Republican. Plenty on both sides of the aisle to support either position. The fracture is between who we collectively see ourselves as as a Nation in terms of our relations with others and how we actually engage others and the true effects and consequences of that form of engagement in this era of growing popular empowerment.
As to what gives us the "right"; well, it is our might, plain and simple.
As to what motivates our actions; I'd chalk that up to fear and ignorance. We fear what would happen if we didn't, and we haven't figured out a smarter way to address those same fears. We need to though, because what we are seeing, as others have learned before us, is that what once may have been a good "cure" can kill one over time if abused it or if the conditions change. Good bit of both of those going on, IMO.
Once again the wisdom of the Aged stands strong
oops, meant ages :D
Seriously all the points brought out during these discussions always lead me to step back and try to see what I may be too close to see in how I perceive those actions and teachings of those around me, let alone how those perceptions tend to shape approaches to life and learning.
From what I have studied I'd have to agree with Marc in that we probably reflect the Roman's more than we might be comfortable with, does however add to those things which we might be able to learn from some of the histories available.
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Originally Posted by
Xenophon67
Clearly there is a weakness when one tries to continually 'teach' by analogy.
The risk of oversimplification is too great - and then all that can be produced is a sweeping, thesis-driven conclusion. Which too easily satisfies too many people.
Indeed the very prospect of 21st century Americans being able to fully comprehend the intricacies of Roman culture and psyche would be difficult, at best. The facts/details.....well the Roman historical record is incomplete, therefore would not be able to make a point-by-point comparative analysis.
Then again - we produce scores of battle analyses, we encourage our people to read about the "Great Captains" - so there has got to be some value in analogy.
Regarding over-simplification while I can see the truth in your statement is it not still a fact that quite often in large organizations or societies it may require a pretty simple approach just to try getting everyone on the same page. Goal being that even if their on the "wrong" page good leaders should be able to direct them more to where they need them since their at least starting on the same page together.
Of course you knew I'd have to try using an extreme oversimplification to counter :wry:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Xenophon67
Napoleon's sixteen months of intensive study seemed to bridge the gap of experience he never accumulated, thus leading to 64 victories.
Patton felt as if 'he was there' and seemed to fully embrace the stories he heard read to him.
There are always those special few who for some reason or another are able to do that. Guess we just have to hope they find there way into the right places at the right time. And of course (since hope isn't a method) its probably a good idea to get those education/training issues you've all been talking about fixed so theres a greater likelihood you actually find them in time to get them where they need to be.
Prob doesn't hurt to be lucky occasionally either.