Nothing is as easy as it seems when one is in a comfortable chair elsewhere...
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Originally Posted by
JMA
Would you find enemy in any of those three photos? Discard the two where there are no soldiers. If you catch the enenmy out in the open there you don't need troops your just send out a few gunships to wrap that up.
True on the gunships. Yes, you would find enemy in all three of the photos. The two without troops were taken by my son on one of many vehicle patrols in the area south of Kandahar to interdict Talib travel routes -- the enemy found in those two would be moving through the area to reach an objective elsewhere.
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Are there really insurgents out there (on terrain like the photos)? Where to the hide out? There is no cover. Thermal would pick them up at night, yes? If they are out there by day don't send the fire force send a shrink.
By day they hole up, by night they move. Thermal cannot be everywhere at all times. There is a great deal of cover in small wadis which are the movement routes. All three pics were reduced significantly to be embedded in the post, at full size the folds in the ground are more evident. In the one with the Troops you can see the military crest of the hill about 400 meters in front of the sandbags; there's a drop down to a fair sized valley.
Below are two more showing a typical river valley and a vehicle parked in front of compound wall -- those walls are thick and around every inhabited area or dwelling. There's plenty of cover and concealment if one knows how to use it -- and the Talibs do...
Hill 31 Honde Valley - Rhodesia
For those who may be interested in some stuff on the 1976 3 Command call-out where 30 kills were made for the first time in a FF op.
If comes from the RLI Association website and is followed by the actual wording of the written contact report and includes some relevant bits and pieces about other stuff.
Hill 31 - Honde Valley
Some translations:
Lynx: Cessna 337
K-Car: Alouette III gunship with side-mounted 20mm cannon
G-Car: Alouette III trooper (4 men) - twin .303 Browning side mounted MGs
A63: VHF radio carried by stick comdrs (1 in 4)
4th Bat: Reserve Battalion on call-ups (were doing 6 weeks on ops & 6 wks at their civvie jobs. Also known as 4RR - RR = Rhodesia Regiment)
Bailiff Acorn: Police Special Branch
Intaf: Internal Affairs.
CB: Confined to Barracks
Frantan: Rhodesian made naplam - for the Lynx came is 18 gallon version.
SNEB: 37mm rocket for the Lynz - (French: Societe Nouvelle des Etablissements Edgar Brandt)
20mm canon: French Matra MG151 with floor mount.
Note that in this particular contact comment was made on near miss by RPG7, troops wounded in helo by ground fire and the general great deal of small arms fire throughout the day. and a helo was forced to land due to hits received from small arms fire. No need to panic though... the pilots were up and at again the next day with us as a captive audience in the passenger seats.
Enjoy!
Good for you. All of you...
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Originally Posted by
Rhodesian
Arrogant? Yes, came with the territory, an absolute must in the RLI, we know who we are, and our limits, and we fight accordingly.
That trait is IMO a must for anyone who's going to fight halfway well, so I've no problem with arrogance. Indulge in it myself -- and often. Got no problem with ignorance either, it happens, one tries to correct it. Willful ignorance OTOH -- like ignoring the political realities we and the British have to cope with is another thing...
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Casevac: No complaints about casevac times? . . mmmmm . . . probably because the comparison has never been made. I still go for 7 minutes and out, with a fully trained combat medic from my own Stick...
Did that time apply just to the Fire Force folks or to the entire Police and Military effort? If the former, most of our SOF raids can match or beat it; if to the total force involved, obviously we can't match it. Question of numbers, I suspect. As for Medics, we got bunches of 'em -- and we have the Combat Lifesaver program wherein Joe (your Johnny Bravo) gets to learn how to do IVs and other neat stuff -- stuff that 30 years ago, Medics weren't even doing. He gets the gear to go with the knowledge as well. That's not just SOF or hotshot units, that's everyone.
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I think we've already highlighted a problem: A tendency to want “tools” that go far beyond our requirements – too expensive, to costly to run, too high maintenance, over-kill. Keep it simple.
Wise words. I agree. However, while the guys out there doing the job would really like to keep it simple (and would really like different ROE...), they don't get the simple reliable tools they want, they get the overly expensive and not always reliable tools Congress buys. In the US, the Army doesn't get to buy what it wants, it gets to buy what Congress tells it to. Dumb system but it's reality. :mad:
If we cut down to essentials and keep it simple, it will cost US jobs -- our Congress doesn't like that idea. They never found a piece of exotic hardware they wouldn't buy, particularly if it's big and expensive enough to have parts made in multiple electoral districts. You folks in Rhodesia had to use what you had. We have to do the same thing, it's just bass ackwards.
Baboon 6 mentioned the USAF might buy a low cost turboprop. Likely won't be the Brazilian Tucano in other than 'trial' quantities. IF we buy one, it'll be made in the US (even if it's less capable) and that's a big 'if.' Buying it will cut into other 'more important' (Congressionally liked) programs...:rolleyes:
Everyone has problems of one kind or another. Your Johnny, their Tommy and our Joe just suck it up and keep on going...:wry:
Here's the fit for the UH-60 Medevac
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Originally Posted by
Rhodesian
... actually it would interesting to hear how the Chinooks or whatever are kitted out and what they can do for someone with say a gun-shot wound, while still airbourne and RTB?
LINK.
The Air Force MH 60 birds are equipped somewhat similarly, the Chinook with the Med treatment load has more, the pure Medevac a little less.