Terms used by Bateson and Anti-Military
Marc,
At the sake of sounding stupid (granted, it's been 26 years since I read that book, but some of his terms are just plain old strange).
The "double Blind" is a tad easy, but Jung and later Bateson (or do I have that backwards) used "Creatura and Pleroma". Yes, I get the bit about living and non-living (you still push the ghost thing two days later herein :rolleyes: )
But Pleroma was no djinn or ghost, rather an eternal and/or divine principle (I attended a Catholic school for 8 years - go figure !)
Yep, I know this is all Greek (actually it is), and the Roman Catholics don't do Djinn, but they do at times do ghosts :D
Hey goesh !
Quote:
Exploitation of the spiritual is a hard sell at best and the Military is not known for fast adaptation - recall the hoopla over SF troops in Afghanistan being told to shave the beards off and get back in uniform
Dead on the money, the real Army is not ready. I am however happy to say that in Sub-Sahara DIA gave us room so long as our reporting justified such actions and didn't get us killed accomplishing said. That doesn't mean we did spooky stuff, but we went far beyond what most were willing to do, and at times at great personal risk. Then, almost all the other Americans there were Clintons and WE were "necessary-but-never-trusted evil as well as the only team that wondered into the real world (outside of the embassy walls).
Simply put, our results supported our less-than-conventional means and we were later recognized for doing it. Our successors would have some big shoes to fill.
Regards, Stan
Pleroma, Creatura and other obscure Greek terms
Hi Stan,
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Stan Reber
At the sake of sounding stupid (granted, it's been 26 years since I read that book, but some of his terms are just plain old strange).
The "double Blind" is a tad easy, but Jung and later Bateson (or do I have that backwards) used "Creatura and Pleroma". Yes, I get the bit about living and non-living (you still push the ghost thing two days later herein :rolleyes: )
But Pleroma was no djinn or ghost, rather an eternal and/or divine principle (I attended a Catholic school for 8 years - go figure !)
Yep, I know this is all Greek (actually it is), and the Roman Catholics don't do Djinn, but they do at times do ghosts :D
Hehehe. Technically, "pleroma" is the Greek for "afterbirth". In theological / philosophical terms, it's used to refer to the "real", phenomenal world as opposed to the "perfect" world of Platonic ideals (Plato... what a twit!). Anyway, Bateson grabbed on to the terms, as did Jung, and used them partly, I suspect, to confuse people :D.
Well, the RCs are pretty good (if you get a priest who can .... hmm, better not say that). I think that the Ortodox are probably better in this area - less of a tradition of bureacratic control.
Marc
Orthodox are probably better in this area
Marc,
That's even stranger. Estonians have little use for religion, but in the event they have some belief, it would be Orthodox. Darn Russians :eek:
The only time an Estonian attends church is to bid farewell to the old year. They don't often do Happy New Year, rather Happy end of the old year. That and the church can't officially perform a marriage, only the Estonian version of the Justice of the Peace can.
What if I were to now to ask them about Djinn ? Wooo Neli !
My 41 year-old girl friend (a tad beyond the Estonian benchmark :) ) is perplexed by things like MBTI and Psychology. She's a true introvert with such daily statements "If he'd just shut up, I'd be able to think about what he said; Why do we have to decide right now; I can' t give you a good answer unless I have some time to reflect on it!"
But dear, the building is burning down, would be my logical answer :cool:
It would appear we have gone way off the IO scenario and of course magic. Nevertheless, I've enjoyed it :)
Regards, Stan
Orthodoxy, Estonia and ???
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Stan Reber
Marc,
That's even stranger. Estonians have little use for religion, but in the event they have some belief, it would be Orthodox. Darn Russians :eek:
The only time an Estonian attends church is to bid farewell to the old year. They don't often do Happy New Year, rather Happy end of the old year. That and the church can't officially perform a marriage, only the Estonian version of the Justice of the Peace can.
What if I were to now to ask them about Djinn ? Wooo Neli !
Well, I ran into an Estonian folklorist about 10 years ago (about an 8.5 on the scale, but she was in her 50's :D). She mentioned to me that Estonia never really got around to converting to Christianity in the first place, outside of the easily accessed areas. If you copnverted "djinn" to "earth spirits", at least in the outback, I doubt you'd have problems (okay, he slver and onsidion knives *might* be a problem).
Quote:
QUOTE: Stan Reber: My 41 year-old girl friend (a tad beyond the Estonian benchmark) is perplexed by things like MBTI and Psychology. She's a true introvert with such daily statements "If he'd just shut up, I'd be able to think about what he said; Why do we have to decide right now; I can' t give you a good answer unless I have some time to reflect on it!"
But dear, the building is burning down, would be my logical answer
INTJ - definately - I recognize it <evil grin>. "So, why are you worried anout a little fire? Just walk through it!" <lolol>.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Stan Reber
It would appear we have gone way off the IO scenario and of course magic. Nevertheless, I've enjoyed it :)
Strangely, we actually haven't, although we have gone away from operation potentials / specifics.
"For behold, I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment; in the twinkling of an eye"
As an Anthropologists, especially a symbolic Anthropologists working in the esoteric field of "ooky-spookyness" (:D), I have to opearate as if all of this is real. Given that operational assimptuin, we end up with all sorts of interesting opportunities and, vide Goesh, limitations. As I mentioned in muy post to him, I'm not calling for a Crusade, but I think it would be a darned good idea to get people who know what they are doing involved in this aspect; especially since they are alreday available in the US forces.
Marc
INTJ - definately - I recognize it <evil grin>.
That would be a good guess, but she won't take the test :confused:
Quote:
Well, I ran into an Estonian folklorist about 10 years ago (about an 8.5 on the scale, but she was in her 50's ).
Yes, Folklore they have, but it depends on the age of the individual you are addressing. Under say the age of 30, they would laugh at you for even suggesting such a thing. Even then, mostly tales and sayings. I had to study this during my language training in Virginia.
There is one thing that comes to mind that ended up reality. Folklore had it that when enemies overpowered the Estonians in the 11th century, those gravely apposed would retreat to the forest and wait for a patriotic front and then join forces defeating their enemy. These so-called forest brothers are now what we call the "Kaitseliit" or in US terms, National Guardsmen. They created battle lines that the Russians didn't think existed. Now flanked and out gunned, the Russians retreated. The Estonian soldiers would return to camp and explain what had taken place and the commander would wonder if he should pass on such nonsense. He didn't but he would later form his own unit, then and even now know as the Kuperjonov Single Infantry Batallion.
In closing, sorry but no Djinns nor ghosts :mad:
Have a good evening, I'm outta here !
Regards, Stan
You had to start from the original place to get there anyway
Greetings Folks !
Slapout, Perhaps Bubba misinterpreted the 9.5 benchmark:rolleyes: . What I meant to say, is we begin at or use the benchmark as a base standard. 9.5's almost always have all their teeth :D In conclusion, we in Estonia use 15.0 as the highest or most prominent position of skirt-watching standards. This is a science and taken very seriously, and lastly by no means magic :D
Quote:
From the reverse angle, who are the groups at risk (I think describing their characeristics) that the enemy might be targeting as part of their own PsyOps? I think this is important because while we bring (and try to impose to some degree) our sense of order through science and technology we are competing with not only ignorance and fear (fear of lots of things), but in some cases practices that have lasted centuries because they either work or give the appearance of working.
Rob,
You managed to intuitively apprehend the inner nature of this !
Thanks for A Great Recap !
Regards, Stan
Magical Realism and the Contras
Interesting thread. I was reminded of an incident with the Contras in Central America. A fairly senior USG officer had flown in to harangue them about something. A big meeting was arranged. After the visitor finished haranguing, the top commander said he wanted to discuss a "special problem." He told the Washingtonian that the Sandinistas were training witches and that these women were infiltrating Contra units and putting curses on key commanders. The curses caused small animals to grow in their stomachs. "Julio, go get that thing that came out of the stomach of Wilfredo..." The gringo from Washington thought they were kidding, and he was laughing like a fool. I realized they were serious, and was trying to get him to stop laughing.
The commanders were Central American country folk, and those people have a lot of these kinds of beliefs. Before anyone gets too scornful and superior, it might be a good idea to consider how some of the rituals in OUR religions might appear to outsiders. Incense and holy water come to mind.
For more of this kind of stuff see http://www.contracross.com