Just a quick comment on semantics
Hi FM,
I haven't been involved in this discussion for a variety of reasons, including a dress rehearsal and concert last night and another one today in Montreal. That being said, I do want to make a point that, I believe, needs to be addressed.
"Semantics" is absolutely crucial to any form of communication; it is not a "joke" as it appears to be presented by many people. "Semantics" is about "meaning", and he opposite of it is Humpty-Dumpty land where words mean what the author says they mean. This is one of the reasons why I almost always attempt to provide operational definitions of terms in my articles and, frequently, put in material about the etymological derivation of words.
Having said this, I want to highlight one comment you made in an earlier post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fabius Maximus
I rely on primary sources almost exclusively, mostly media, NGO's, and government. When quoting officials and describing events, would you accept my personal observations, or prefer something with more credibility?
Every source you list is a secondary source, not a primary source unless what you are studying is media / NGO / Government representation of what is happening in Iraq. It is a secondary source precisely because it has been filtered through at least one, or more, interpretive schemas. In the case of the media, it is frequently a tertiary source when they are reporting on what someone else, such as a government, military or NGO figure has already analyzed.
In proper academic research, every layer of interpretation creates a new bias that must be resolved, and you do not do this. I think that this is one of the causes of friction here.
Anyway, I have to run - off to Montreal for another concert.
Marc
Yes, that was a too-quick post.
They are secondary sources, not primary.
For discussions about war zones we are to a large extent limited to these sources. Both sides of the debate can see them and assess their credibility. Also, for most of us they are our only sources through which to see the larger picture.
Anecdotal data – “annec-data” – can provide valuable context and insights, but is often difficult to build on.
a note about evidence, reply to RTK
I agree with this, when it comes to forming your own views.
But I was speaking about giving evidence in a debate. I say I saw "A". You say you saw "B." Will you believe me, and change your view of Iraq? Also, since we only see bits of the whole, we both could be right.
Also, it is useful to quote official statements (esp. by military and political leaders) -- which I find quite useful. Here we (or at least, I) can only quote using secondary sources.
Repeating what I said at greater length in an earlier post, everyone has their own preference in determining what is reliable knowledge. Debating which method is "right" will, I suspect, accomplish nothing.
Culpeper -- interesting post, could you explain?
I do not understand. I was expressing a preference in this kind of debate for secondary sources over primary experience. (both have value, of course). You speak of a "philosphy of nihilism." I don't see the connection.
As for "solutions", this text points to one. Not a promising one, in that I guess that we will not take it. The next few texts, as I said, discuss "solutions" at greater length. Just small steps.
What makes the grass grow?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fabius Maximus
I do not understand. I was expressing a preference in this kind of debate for secondary sources over primary experience. (both have value, of course). You speak of a "philosphy of nihilism." I don't see the connection.
As for "solutions", this text points to one. Not a promising one, in that I guess that we will not take it. The next few texts, as I said, discuss "solutions" at greater length. Just small steps.
Like this... I don't understand that you don't understand. Therefore, we could both be right.
You resort to a nihilist approach when backed into a debate corner by stating there is no possibility of an objective basis for truth because we don't understand in the same way. You write up a study, state it is based on facts, and resort to a philosophical defense mechanism under debate that completely abandons the facts. There is nothing wrong with being skeptical but when you become skeptical of your own work as a means to an end than we have a problem. Next time you watch the movie Full Metal Jacket you should pay careful attention to the scene where the DI asks Private Joker if he believes in the Virgin Mary and how Private Joker handled that problem.
Does objective knowledge exist? Yes, of course.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Culpeper
You resort to a nihilist approach when backed into a debate corner by stating there is no possibility of an objective basis for truth because we don't understand in the same way.
Thank you, that explains the confusion. I was refering to various ways of obtaining knowledge. Not that there is no objective knowledge.
Sometimes we use primary sources, sometimes secondary. Both have strengths and weakness. For example, two people can observe the same event and report it quite differently -- this is a classic first year law school lesson.
I do not see why is there is debate on this point.
Perhaps the most interesting comment in this thread!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jcustis
We got into trouble because "bringing democracy to the people of Iraq" was a noble idea to some. Perhaps it is time to stop that seed. The Green Revolution brought good crops to other parts of the world, but it also made the rich richer, and widened the divide between them and subsistence farmers.
That is out of the box thinking, the most radical insight I've seen in a long time. Much more so than anything in my text, which was pretty conventional thinking.
Thinking like that might lead to revising much of our foreign policy. IMHO, almost anything would be an improvement.
Worth it's own thread.