This is, after all, a nation that does not trust any of its own politicians...:D
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Bill:
In the medium to small size city and area I was familiar with officers would just respond and go to the sound of guns so to speak. There would be lots of citizens who would help them out. It would be more efficient if each officer were trained specifically for the situation but I think simple individual officer initiative coupled with citizen assistance would be good enough, not perfect, but good enough. Maybe it could viewed as something like a swarm attack in reverse.
Posted by Ray,
You forgot to add that we talk kids into wanting to conduct acts and then provide inert bomb making materials and put them in jail for an attempted terrorist attack. It is sort of a clairvoyant pre-emptive arrest type of approach.Quote:
I would think that more than the US Police being effective, the manner in which the US has 'wired' up the nation to keep a tab on all citizens to include their communications and the way the US has tightened up the entry of foreigners into the US, is what is keeping the US safe.
On a serious note I agree it is our intelligence more than anything else that keeps us safe. I don't the spying/observation of our own people is near as extensive as you're implying.
Carl,
I like your reverse swarm concept, and I agree it would work in a few minutes to a few hours, so once the police and people are mobilized the terrorists will be defeated. Keep our country strong, support the NRA :D
Key 26/11 conspirator Abu Hamza arrested at Delhi Airport
http://www.readability.com/articles/io2ksvf0
Also see Saudi Assistance and Pak Passport
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/i.../1/202430.html
Abu Hamza was in Saudi Arabia to gather funds for big terror strike; Pakistan tried to prevent his extradition: Sources
http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/ab...-his-ex-235989
Lashkar backer detained at US airport
Houston, June 28 (PTI): Former Pakistani minister Shaikh Rashid, known for his support for the Lashkar-e-Toiba, was detained at Houston airport on arrival for his possible links with Jamat-ud-Dawa founder Hafiz Saeed, the mastermind of the Mumbai attacks.
The JuD is considered to be a cover for the Lashkar-e-Toiba.
http://www.telegraphindia.com/112062...p#.T-2If7Ue7CA
In my opinion, Pakistan is as sane a country as any other.
The only problem is that it suffers from schizophrenia.
The Muslims of India created a new country because they felt Muslims would be swamped by Hindus of India. Very justifiable if you ask me, given their arguments of those time. However, that is where the rot started. The intelligentsia of what became Pakistan came from India, what are called the Mohajirs.
The Mohajir were the educated lot, the leaders in the field of education, commerce, law, governance and administration. The real sons of the soil of Pakistan (the area which became West Pakistan) were feudal satraps and military men who had jagirs and so on. Beyond the feudal lords there were mere rustics who were bonded labour and some.
This is where the jockeying started. Would the Punjabis ( the rich feudal and military) satraps be the ones who chalk the destiny or the refugees from India, the educated and commercially astute Mohajirs?
Mohajirs took over the govt (Jinnah was a Mohajir and a whole lot of others), administration, judiciary and commerce. To ensure that they were not uprooted, they engineered to drum in Islam as the raison d’être for Pakistan and brought in Urdu (the language of sophisticated Muslim of UP India) as the national language. The so called Pakistani ‘sons of the soil’ were outmanoeuvred!!!!
Kashmir came as a manna. The sons of the soil were the backbone of the Army. This allowed them to project themselves as the ‘saviour’ of Pakistan and cleverly using the Mohajirs’ ‘anti India and anti Hindu’ agenda. So, the Mohajirs were checkmated.
Ever since, this has been the lever for jockeying for power in Pakistan.
The anti India agenda is the core of Pak politics. They have used US and now they are using China.
However, Pakistan is at the cross roads.
They have alienated the US for reasons that is so obvious that it requires no elaboration. And now they are upsetting China because they are being unable to control the influx of insurgents in Xinjaing.
The unfortunate part of Pakistan, is that while the wanted to ensure no Hindu majority to impede the rise of Muslims of the sub continent, they failed miserably in this pursuit. They then added the tack to be the supreme leader of the Islamic world with the nuclear bomb and spawning terrorists calling them euphemistically as Mujahideen and Taliban and they too has backfired.
One should pity them!
An article based on a PBS Frontline broadcast two days ago, with lots of details:http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...umbai-attacks/
It will be a long time before the accused appears in an Indian criminal court and the allegations are tested Indian style.
Interesting commentary on Saudi Arabia first:and second:Quote:
For the last two years, Ansari lived in Saudi Arabia, where he had been “talent spotting” for another “massive attack,” an official with New Delhi’s antiterrorist police unit told Reuters, though he did not specify whether India was the target.
Quote:
Saudi assistance in turning over Ansari would be unusual because Saudi Arabia and India are not natural partners, according to ex-CIA analyst Bruce Riedel. “I’m puzzled by why the Saudis would do this, but it would make sense if they were being pushed by the U.S. and other countries who want Lashkar put out of business,” he told FRONTLINE.
He will sing like a canary! ;) :)
Another one Fasih is coming in thanks to a nudge nudge wink wink from the US.
Key 26/11 conspirator Abu Jundal arrested at IGI airport in Delhi
http://www.readability.com/read?url=.../267741-3.html
Yes, they definitely are but then again money talks. The budget of NYPD alone is more than the combined budget of two of the largest paramilitaries of India i.e., CRPF and BSF. Jurisdiction of NYPD is tri state area and has ~35,000 employees.
On the other hand BSF guards the nearly 7500 kms of border and CRPF's jurisdiction is entire India and have a total of 550,000 employees. And trust me these are the "well funded" agencies. Salary of a NYPD police officer (corporal) is more than 4 times than that of an Indian Assistant Supritendent (Captain equivalent).
Now you do the math.
Blueblood I agree, but I think advantage diminishes rapidly when you move to mid and small sized towns. NYC and LA police among others have incredible capabilities, but they don't represent most cities and towns.
Not likely Bill. I compared "well funded" police forces of both countries. Smaller police forces of US are equally well equipped while the weapon of choice of Indian police in smaller cities is a wooden cane and at the most a Lee-Enfield of the 1960's vintage. More than 80 percent of police members have never operated an automatic rifle. There were CCTV videos of CST, the Mumbai railway station where the initial onslaught took place. Many Railway police constables ran away as they had no weapons. Those who had tried to return the fire but they too jammed since they haven't been used and cleaned since god knows when.
The West jumped the gun when they criticized the performance of NSG during the whole fiasco. People were comparing them with the past performances of American SWATs, GIGN, GSG9 and whatnot, but how many of these forces have faced situation identical to this. These were not some teenagers attacking a high school. They were trained by ISI and SSG(N) and had more tech than your average jihadi.
NSG did more live room clearing drills with hostages inside in less than 48 hours than many forces did in their lifetimes. The attack was deemed as India's 9/11 and so it was. Complete breakdown of the security apparatus.
American SWATs though very well trained are not designed to react to the scale NSG is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operati...er#cite_note-5
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_Missions
I was dumbfounded when I first saw this show. SWAT members of smaller cities were demolishing the SEALs, Green berets, Deltas and Marines Recons.
Questions are being raised surrounding the sudden and secret hanging of Kasab in India.
From International Business Times India:The rumor of Kasab dying of dengue has become a hot topic of discussion on Twitter.Quote:
Ajmal Kasab a Victim of Dengue or Was He Hanged till Death? Soon after the news of Mohammed Ajmal Kasab's hanging was announced, several people started raising questions about the government's secrecy over his execution. While several people, including the victims' families supported the decision, many have raised doubts on the social networking sites asking whether the terrorist was actually hanged or he died of dengue.
Excerpt From OneIndia News:Quote:
Mumbai, Nov 21: The swiftness and secrecy in which the execution of Pakistani terrorist Ajmal Kasab took place have come as a surprise to many. People are wondering why so much secrecy was maintained before hanging Kasab? Kasab was hanged till death at Yerwada jail in Pune around 7.30 am on Wednesday, Nov 21. Kasab, who was held in Mumbai's Arthur Road jail, was then moved to Pune's Yerwada prison."We kept secrecy. It was important to maintain secrecy in this matter," Shinde said, adding that Pakistan had been informed of the execution.
Personally I have no problem with India's decision to execute this man, who gunned down many innocents at Mumbai's railway station, nearly four years ago.
The BBC's local reporter, in a good report, noted that:Link:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-20422270Quote:
many believe, the government, beset by allegations of scandal and inaction, timed the execution perfectly.
It came a day before the beginning of the winter session of the parliament, where it's primed to face a noisy and tough opposition. It also came five days before the fourth anniversary of the attacks when the main opposition BJP would have almost certainly reminded the government of its "failure" to execute Qasab.
Some of the victim's reaction are in another BBC article; this says it all:Link:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-20423470Quote:
...the sense that someone has been finally held accountable for the deaths makes the sense of injustice slightly more bearable than before.
A comment on the Indian Twitter surge:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-20426516 and the Indian press reaction:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-20440455
Sir,
The Dengue issue is all over the Indi-Pak mainstream(very mainstream) and social media. I think the Indian Government should not have done it in secrecy given South Asia's propensity towards conpiracy theories.
From the Indian Defense Forum:http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/p...ged-death.html
Nonetheless- one less terrorist on this planet, and it was long due!!!Quote:
Kasab died due to high BP and cholesterol, thanks to all the rich food served to him. After he was found dead, they hanged his dead body just to show that he did not die due to natural causes!
This anniversary has just passed (26th November 2008) and led to some local commentary. There is a short article in The Times Of India by Vappala Balachandran:http://articles.timesofindia.indiati...olice-response
It opens with:The author has written a longer article for an Indian magazine, Defence & Security Alert, which is not linked on the Web; it is too big to use an attachment, so PM me if required with an email address.Quote:
Security breaches can be prevented only through a combination of measures in which mental anticipation of the possible situation is cardinal.
The US security machinery's pre-9 /11 lapses were described as 'failures in imagination, policy, capabilities and management' by the Kean-Hamilton commission. Despite intelligence alerts since 2006 that a seaborne commando attack on multiple targets in Mumbai was likely, our resistance capacity was not strengthened.
26/11 villain Ajmal Kasab hanged, Pak stops journalists from entering his village
Pakistani national Ajmal Kasab, the sole surviving terrorist of the Mumbai terror attack of November 26, 2008, was hanged in a Pune jail at 7.30 am on Wednesday, after his mercy plea was rejected by President Pranab Mukherjee earlier this month.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-...e1-962152.aspx
What's disappointing is the western media's use of tag of gunman instead of terrorist and even more disappointing is the Pak media's tag of accused despite the CCTV footage and the confession.
Anyhow, it's better late than never.
For Mumbai, Justice If Not Peace
Entry Excerpt:
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Read the full post and make any comments at the SWJ Blog.
This forum is a feed only and is closed to user comments.
This academic study was published in March 2011, with the title 'Information control and terrorism: Tracking the Mumbai terrorist attack through twitter' and was discovered via Twitter today!
The study is behind a paywall:http://link.springer.com/article/10....796-010-9275-8
So here is the blog comment, first the author's bio:It starts with, my emphasis:Quote:
Patrick Meier (PhD) is an internationally recognized thought leader on the application of new technologies for crisis early warning, humanitarian response and resilience.
The study concluded, in part:Quote:
Those who are still sceptical about the value of Twitter for real-time situational awareness during a crisis ought to ask why terrorists likely think otherwise. In 2008, terrorists carried out multiple attacks on Mumbai in what many refer to as the worst terrorist incident in Indian history. This study, summarized below, explains how the terrorists in question could have used social media for coordination and decision-making purposes.
Link:http://irevolution.net/2013/02/14/te...-used-twitter/Quote:
...we conclude that the Mumbai Twitter page indirectly contributed to enhancing the situational awareness level of Mumbai terrorists, although we cannot exclude the possibility of its direct contribution as well....Because terrorists’ political goals function as interpretative filters to process situational information, understanding of adversaries’ political goals may reduce costs for security operation teams to monitor and decide which tweets need to be controlled.
Ah, controlling tweets - now there is a dilemma. I do not understand the technology, but know a tweet can be withdrawn and the system can hinder activity. One wonders if anyone has thought through an operating protocol. Plus I assume Twitter is not the only provider.
From an observer of the social media scene, with my emphasis:Quote:
The use of Social Media for Situational Awareness is a real issue and here is some evidence to back up what was suspected. I think the authorities are somewhat slow in thinking about the implications of this. I am just starting to see some interest from the commercial risk management sector but there needs to be much more momentum here. We are clearly somewhat behind the bad guys.
Yoo hoo. See also
http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/...9&postcount=46
The BIJ return with a lengthy article asking 'Four Disturbing Questions About the Mumbai Terror Attack':http://www.propublica.org/article/fo...-terror-attack
It ends with a lawyer's quote:Quote:
Q. Why doesn't Pakistan capture Sajid Mir?
Q. What was the full extent of the role of Pakistani intelligence in Mumbai?
Q. What risk does Lashkar-e-Taiba pose in the future?
Q. Why didn't U.S. authorities stop Headley sooner?
Quote:
Headley proved that for all our changes in security, we are not much safer.....It was too easy. When the real big bad terrorist showed up, no one saw him.
Psyops in Pakistan seem to be determined to make hay with a stupid Indian newspaper headline. This may not be smart..
http://www.brownpundits.com/2013/07/...umbai-attacks/
http://www.brownpundits.com/2013/07/...umbai-attacks/
Above link updated with explanation of sorts
That is rich.
Maybe the officer could explain how Hafeez Saeed and the LeT are part of the Indian intelligence!
The man is said to be on vendetta to get to some officers of his organisation who have, as per him, not given him a fair deal.
And then there is a whole lot of politics.
This is an election year.
The Govt has performed dismally to include total looting by Ministers including possibly the 'honest' Prime Minister (or helping his mentor) and so it has to organise issues that diverts the attention.
The simple question is that how does it help India to organise terrorism against itself?
Indeed, if it does, what are the motivations to do it?
Destabilise India and for who? Foreign interests?
Too outlandish to feel India is controlled by foreign interests.
And if it is true, then let us once again be a colony so that we know where we stand!
A NYT piece on the information and intelligence before the Mumbai attacks. A choice passage:Link:http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/22/wo...=67232673&_r=1Quote:
What happened next may rank among the most devastating near-misses in the history of spycraft. The intelligence agencies of the three nations did not pull together all the strands gathered by their high-tech surveillance and other tools, which might have allowed them to disrupt a terror strike so scarring that it is often called India’s 9/11.
Many insights are within the article and rightly an Indian politician ends with:Quote:
The key is the analysis, we didn’t have it.
But isnt this a bit of "grabbing the wrong end of the stick"? Modern intelligence gathering generates more data than can possibly be analyzed in real time by human analysts. The biggest problem is not that the human analyst did not pick up X out of all random bits; it is that the human analysts did not have a good idea of where they should have been looking most carefully.
That does not imply a fixed set of priorities, but it does mean having a constantly updated model that captures where the biggest problems are likely to come from.
In this case, it does not seem that neither Western analysts or Indian ones were fully awake to the possibilities.
Of course there will be surprises. But at that point, should this have been such a total surprise?
I dont know. I am not an intelligence analyst. But those who are: what do you think? in retrospect, should it have been such a shock?
btw, another judgement in Lakhvi's favor.
http://www.dawn.com/news/1153831/ihc...cks-mastermind
Being a Pakistani, I tend to suspect that "the fix is in" (i.e. the US and the GOP have agreed that low level Kashmir Jihad is the best option to siphon off various explosive young men who might otherwise explode in more sensitive locations), but what do more rationally trained people think? Happenstance? Coincidence? or enemy action?
A sharp review by Adrian Levy, a UK-based investigative journalist in an Indian website; entitled 'Despite Headley’s Warning, U.S. Prioritised Capturing Bin Laden Over Saving Mumbai'. Leaving aside Headley (who was eventually convicted in the USA) there are other aspects.
A stinging last paragraph:Link:https://sniwire.com/despite-headleys...saving-mumbai/Quote:
Of course the US did not carry out 26/11. And it would be wrong to accuse Western security agencies of even having exacerbated it. Criminal killers did that. But what Western governments and their agencies did do was —of course –act in their own naked self interest, elevating the targeting of Osama bin Laden, over the threat to Mumbai, an insight into the real world of hard knocks, where special relationships are no replacement for rigorous National Security.
He is a "lurker" and starts with:In the 'Indian Express': 'Securing India- A decade after 26/11 terrorist methodology has changed, state response remains woefully same.'Quote:
My analysis, from different angles, on whether we are prepared to face a similar attack like 26/11.
Link:https://indianexpress.com/article/26...india-5464060/
In 'The Tribune': 'So it may never happen again..Centre-State synergy is needed between police and Intel agencies to combat terror.'
Link:https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/co...in/688820.html
From 'The Mint: 'India is not better prepared than 2008'
Link:http://https://www.livemint.com/Opin...than-2008.html
He "pulls no punches" and what has not happened is a national political decision to simply "stay calm and carry on as normal".
Two articles, one by the LeT expert, Stephen Tankel via WoTR and the otehr by ProPublica retuirns - as Stephen - does to the lack of any penalty for Pakistani's role in the attack.
Stephen's last passage:Link:https://warontherocks.com/2018/11/te...ier-than-ever/Quote:
India executed Kasab in late November 2012, almost four years to the day after the Mumbai attacks began. U.S. authorities arrested David Headley, the Pakistani-American who conducted reconnaissance for the attacks, in the United States, where he is currently in prison. But their leaders in Lashkar-e-Taiba and the ISI handlers supporting them got away pretty much scot-free. The Pakistani authorities charged seven of the group’s members, including the group’s second-in-command, in connection with the attacks. Not surprisingly, none were convicted in Pakistani courts, or extradited to India. All are back on the street. The ISI handlers who supported the attack reportedly moved on to other assignments. Lashkar-e-Taiba leaders not only remain at large. They and the group their organization arguably have more influence in Pakistan than ever before.
Link:https://www.propublica.org/article/t...-mumbai-attack