It is at least a translation issue...
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Originally Posted by
Fuchs
I consider "nonsense" as a quite neutral word here. It's no description of a person anyway.
No but it was used refering to a statement by a person in an electronic forum where the nuances of body language, tone, inflection and other things aren't transmitted. Quite simply, the things one can say to another in person can be offensive on an electronic message board. I know that I and at least two others have suggested earlier that you be more careful, now another has suggested it. :confused:
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OK, I could have written "wrong" or used other weaker descriptions.
The appropriate description is in my opinion "nonsense", though.
Maybe it's just a translation issue. I can't imagine a German being offended by someone calling his statement "Unsinn" (=nonsense).
That would happen if "Schwachsinn" (=moronic) was used.
Well, aside from the obvious fact that we aren't Germans (even though many of us left there to come here), here in the US, depending on the tone of voice used and the expression on your face when you use either of those words in person, if the recipient decides he or she is upset by it, you'd be subject to being hit at worst or descending into a bitter argument -- or having no one to talk to because the recipient just walked off.
OTOH, if you were joking or mildly dismissive, you'd probably get a joke or equally dismissive response -- and as long as the tone stayed light, all would be well. If, however, one person got a little irritated; well, that would likely also lead to an argument...
The problem is the printed word doesn't convey those discriminators.
Russia won the battle...now what?
Russia’s recent actions in Georgia are troubling to say the least. According to Clausewitz, war is politics by other means. Putin is now flexing his military muscle instead of pursuing a peaceful resolution to the perceived threats around him. What is it about Georgia that troubles Russia?
Perhaps it is the BCT (Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan) pipeline. The U.S. has consistently supported the BTC pipeline because we believe in the project’s ability to bolster global energy security, enhance regional stability, and expand international investments. It is also of interest to us because it carries 1% of the world’s oil supply, which may not sound like much, but it is the only pipeline to the West through the Black Sea and 30% of it is owned by BP and American investors. It is important now more than ever to diversify our sources of oil/natural gas.
Perhaps it is the pro-western views of Georgia. Out of all the states in the Caucasus (Georgia, Azerbaijan, and Armenia), Georgia is the most pro-western and perhaps a logical place for Russia to seek a strategic decisive victory against perceived threats. Russia’s military appears to be organized for Napoleonic warfare which is built around strategically decisive battles. Clausewitz argued that operational success does not lead to strategic success. Russia has won the battle in Georgia, but it may well lose the war. Russia’s strong-arming Georgia into a cease-fire after violating its sovereignty is likely to spark 2nd and 3rd order effects that will cost Russia not only diplomatically, but economically and militarily as well.
What do you think will happen to Russia and its relationship with other regional players?
Major Andrew Hagemaster, U.S. Army; the views expressed are my own and do not reflect official policy.
I don't think you need to reduce your activity here
You are a valuable contributor. Most of us don't object to a Euro-centric view but most of us do have a US-centric view. Exposure to contrary opinions is good and is needed. To my mind the key is simply to avoid being dismissive of or overly abrupt with those who have different opinions. Like they say, we ought to be able to disagree without being disagreeable...
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Originally Posted by
Fuchs
An underground nuclear test quickly followed by a surprise coup against the Baltic states would be the maximum that I can imagine.
Heh. That would probably do it...
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Pre-deployment of troops is no real option because of its many negative effects. Some military assistance to enable the Baltic states to have some definately over-sized but defensive armies and some quick deployment NATO exercises (necessary anyway) might be a good idea.
Agreed.
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About the offensiveness problem:
About 6,000 posts on a German internet forum during seven years without problems tell me it's not about missing facial expression and sound only.
It might actually in part be a problem of languages.
I'm sure it's definitely both. Europeans in general are IMO more forward and blunt than most Americans -- that darn Puritan effect. So it's part writing, part language and part culture I suspect.
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Did you know that there's no such thing like cuzzword filters in German online software? I was quite puzzled when I encountered the first one I ever saw in an English online software. Tolerance and sensitivity towards such things seem to be quite different.
Didn't know that but it doesn't surprise me; I don't agree with them here but they're about in many places. Yes, the sensitivity is different. We shouldn't be so closed minded as far as I'm concerned but, unfortunately, we are.
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I can actually not remember many cases of German forum members feeling offended. The few cases that I remember were seriously drastic, such like accusation of being a Nazi or a liar.[
That''ll get people here as well. Boards here also differ; some are pretty free wheeling and almost anything goes but this one is run pretty tightly in order to keep it reasonably professional as opposed to an 'anything goes' sort of place -- we have a lot of those, this one just isn't.
I'm probably more arrogant by nature than you are so I have to be careful with what I say. Sometimes I mess up but I try to be calm, not dismissive of others and to be reasonable (even if it hurts on occasion :D).
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Anyway, I can simply reduce my activity, that helps to calm down.
As I said, I hope you won't; you're an asset. Just take the criticism on tone at face value; no one is faulting your positions (though we may disagree on some of them, that should be okay), just, sometimes, the delivery.
In looking at the long term
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Originally Posted by
Rex Brynen
3) A major issue in all of this, which remains unanswered, is what the hell were the Georgians thinking? No matter how much they might have been in the "right," it was a foolish move doomed to failure from the start. To what extent did US security assistance, and (rather foolish, in my view) efforts by Washington to promote Georgian membership in NATO play a role in fostering unrealistic expectations of Western support? Should the US have picked up on Georgian preparations for this offensive?
In attempting to review the situation-
Is or is not SO a part of Georgia, if it is then why would anything they are doing not require at the least Russia to notify the international community of what is happening and what it intends to do about it.
1- this would be indicative of actually giving a darn about the Ossetians
2- It wouldn't necessitate an IO compaign, propaganda blitz, and large scale cyber attacks
4) Policy responses need to think about the long term, and also recognize the need to factor in how things look from Moscow (even if we think Moscow is mistaken). [/QUOTE]
If policy is to become that any country who has a certain amount of former citizens within a population in a different sovereign country feels that it is unhappy with the ways it expats are being treated it is ok to just bulldoze your way in and light up the place.
The implications for this worldwide I sure anyone could readily see wouldn't be good for anyone.
As far as how they look from Moscow-
As of a short while ago:
They were a major part of several international organized leadership groups with a lot of sway in how things should be handled around the world.
They are making money like crazy with their exports.
They were given an opportunity to be the peace broker and big brother figure to Iran in their quest for nuclear energy vs nuclear weapons
They have been able to take part in major military and academic exercises with nations from around the world
They have had the opportunity to bring in many economic projects which could have helped to continue revitalizing their nation
Noone has violated their territorial borders
Etc
Long and short One would hope they might be revisiting exactly how they look at it :confused: