Blasphemy: Article advocates afternoon PT
Good article in this month's Military Review:
Quote:
Afternoon PT: Key for an Army Flextime Battle Rhythm
Captain Mark Van Horn, U.S. Army
With great stress, commanders are seeking better ways to help. They
encourage Soldiers to spend time with their loved ones, but they must bal-
ance the requirements of reintegration with compressed pre-deployment
training. This is a notoriously tight rope to walk. Morning physical training
(PT) determines when Soldiers report for work. Close of business comes
when—as a member of a team, squad, or platoon—all the work is finished.
There is a more productive way to approach this routine and preserve the
cohesion of the unit: make PT an afternoon ritual. If commanders simply
shift the physical training time from morning to afternoon and empower
company-grade leaders to send Soldiers home when the work is done, the
Army will have a flextime schedule that works with regimentation. Soldiers
will get the opportunity to spend more time with their families, pursue
personal interests, and generally improve their quality of life, with reduced
stress, less commute times, and better health.
.....
Convincing case.
I don't see the current crop of CSM's ever allowing it - it just isn't done that way!
I'm not sure it's all the CSMs...
Not to defend them, many are guilty of a terrifying lack of imagination among other things but they are not alone in that. I recall reading in the International Edition of Newsweek in the mid-70s when the "Pro-Life" 2d Inf Div would have been unable to fight its way out of a paper bag but was an unusual sociological experiment the comment that if "...the North Koreans are smart, they'll attack the South at 0600 when the entire US 2d Division is out in shorts and T-Shirts running four miles on the road every morning."
Not to mention that said running did NOT equip the troops to climb those Korean hills with 90 pounds on their backs...
That said, there was a time before the Army developed its misplaced and not terribly productive PT and running fetish when units did PT before lunch, in the afternoons and even in the cool of the evening. It was a unit choice and there were frequent variations, even some days when there was no PT! -- that was back in the day when a Company could write its own training schedule and not be dictated to by an overranked Bn S3. The S3s are overranked to support OPM, not for any valid military reason and PT is vastly overrated as a conditioner and for development of the strengths, muscles and endurance required for combat. ;)
I've heard all the objections Schmedlap raised and more -- all are specious. Particularly the closing of roads, totally unnecessary unless you put everyone on the roads at the same time on some (not all) posts. Why not run cross country in boots and toughen the ankles. Or a fifteen mile cross country ruck and vest march. Better yet, why not an Obstacle or Confidence Course.. :D
If the Army really wants to develop flexibility, they'll return to that model. They might also consider going to a nine day on four / five day off (varying between the two in no set pattern) work period and occasionally combining two nine day 'on' periods for a more lengthy and realistic field exercise. That breaks up troops flooding town on weekends off, gets rid of the five day week syndrome and has several other benefits, not least scheduling ranges and training areas. It also mentally conditions the troops -- and their leaders -- for a war where there are no slack days or cycling to a FOB or the rear. Yeah, I know. But it also spreads out use of the Post Golf course...:D
Soldiering is an outdoor sport and it is not an eight to five plus structured early morning PT five day week sort of job. Too easy to forget that if one is not careful. Habits and mental conditioning can be dangerous... :o
Good for all of 'em. On the mod PT, that is...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MikeF
Over the last two years, some SF'ers and Seals introduced me to yoga, Cross-Fit, and kettle bells as additional workouts to help repair the lower back after long tours of wearing the body armor.
Yes. I'm waiting for my son to drop one his several Kettlebells on his head... :D
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The days of 8-10 mile runs are over even if we haven't realized it yet.
Long overdue, that.
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Plus, all that training was a good way to avoid the "thought police" (the Div CSM's minions that run around Ardennes looking for uniform violations!!!!).
Minions? Tommy doesn't need minions. Though I can understand why some of his predecessors did... ;)
Combatives were introduced to counter the fact that
kids today can reach age 18 without ever having been struck or striking anyone else. Combatives are mostly a way to let people hit others and get hit and learn that the world doesn't come to an end.
Various forms of combatives are used by various units and forces but few are really combat skills. The reason for that is the true infantry hand to hand combat skills are -- or certainly should be -- deadly. Literally. Few forces today are willing to impart such knowledge to average troops due to fear of misuse.
Schmedlap is totally correct:
Quote:
"...When you practice the wrong technique - which is more likely to occur when you first practice it while exhausted - then you develop motor memory of the wrong technique. Learn the technique, get it right (in other words, train). Then, when you're proficient, you can do it while exhausted for your day of conditioning.
That's important...
However, I think on this:
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We don't do stress shoots before basic rifle marksmanship."
We need to do the same thing -- get the basics thoroughly embedded using enhancements to this methodology (LINK) then go to stress shoots. Combat is a stress shoot..;)
All those are good reasons -- except this one:
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"...Serisoulsy, PT should be in the AM just because at least you know it gets done..."
The secret to PT 'getting done' is to hold people responsible for their fitness. The NCOs know who's fit and who isn't... :wry:
Having to do anything via a formation is an individual or a leadership failure; usually both. Treat 'em like children and they'll act like children. Treat 'em like adults and most will act like adults -- the few that do not are easily corrected or tossed. ;)
An even better reason for morning PT is that it gets the metabolism flowing. A good reason for occasional after lunch or late afternoon PT is that it varies the routine and provides a change of pace, particularly if it's a ruck road march or a cross country run -- or, even better an obstacle or confidence course with weapons.
Same can be said of a lot of
Quote:
Originally Posted by
infntryldr
Unfortunality some 18-19 year olds are not responsible. :)
forty and fifty year olds who lack the self confidence to trust or use their subordinates... ;)
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Are you serious, so all those formations I ran in boot camp where failures by my Drill Instructors.
I should have clearly stated in units, I didn't realize you'd just left Boot Camp. ;)That's a learning and conditioning experience, service in a unit is operating experience -- or is supposed to be, anyway. Different realities -- though I admit a lot of loud folks try to keep the Boot Camp or Basic/AIT mentality going. Quite wrongly in my view.
Quote:
Actuall formation runs build camraderie and unit cohesion. I cannot disagree with you more.
we can disagree. My experience is that only combat or really intensive field training build unit cohesion. All garrison stuff is superficial. To see the difference, watch who your troops in garrison hang with versus who they hang with in the field.
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They are corrected by making them PT with you after working hours. The way you fix that is making sure they PT, and you do that by getting them in formation and running the dog **** out of them.
We can also disagree strongly on that. If they're failing to do what they should, that's the first line leaders fault -- if you don't hold him or her responsible, you end up doing the fixing yourself. That, to me is micromangament, not leading. YMMV. On that line, I've yet to see a pushup or a long hard run clean a weapon, clean a head/latrine or instill a desire to excel in a Snuffy.
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Getting tossed? If you mean seperated from the service or the unit, good luck.
Why do I need good luck. Old age and treachery will trump youth and skill. :D I can recall people getting tossed out of the Corps -- that was during Korea, not peacetime -- and the Army -- VN, not peace.
Not hard, just takes a little effort and having your act together. It does get difficult if the chain of command screws up...
We can differ on almost all that...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
infntryldr
I know its hard to believe but there are individuals out there who would when individual PT was given would be off slacking somewhere.
Well of course there are -- the same guys will also sluff on keeping their uniform and equipment squared away and anything else their NCOs will let them get away with. So it all boils down to that first line leader.
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Now when the leader, who is responsible for everything that unit does or fails to do, collides with the human instinct to take the course of least resistance, then I think the leader trumps all to insure mission success and a certain level of physical fitness among his men.
Yep. Question is what leader are you speaking of. Tm ldr? Sqd Ldr? Platoon Sgt / Pl or PC? Co 1SG or Cdr?
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Now I am not saying that every PT session needs to be a platoon or company formation run, what I am saying is giving NCO's the responsibility to led their squads and fire teams on a daily basis builds leadership among those NCO's and insures a level of fitness among the troops.
Ah. Slight change. I can almost agree with that -- except the level of physical fitness HAS to be an individual responsibility. Even as long ago as I retired, smoking troopies for fun and profit was illegal...
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I just retired from the Marine Corps.
I know, I read your Intro post -- but that was too good a target to pass up... :D
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My experience tells me that its a combination of both. Field training no doubt builds unit cohesion, but the whole garrison experience builds it as well.
True but the Garrison cohesion is largely a different animal and not conducive to combat cohesion -- that's why I said watch who the Troops run around with in Garrison. In most units, only after extensive field work will they run around with sqd and platoon mates instead of others they have something else in common with.
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Agreed, there should be no room for micromanagement in a combat unit, but supervision from a distance is another story. Mentor, teach, and instruct.
I agree with the theory; I suspect we'd disagree on the distance.
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Hey I liked individual PT just like everybody else, but I do not think that letting individuals go out and do it themselves is the answer. Nor do I think it is the units respoinsibility to get you in shape. This is why you see the gyms on base flocked with individuals working out and such. But to just discard organized PT as some dinosaur because someone believes it micromananing, in my opinion is not the case.
We can disagree on that, specifically on whether PT as most in the Army and Marines conduct it today is a combat fitness builder or a cohesion builder of any real significance.
Proving yet again that good leaders make
good units -- and don't have bad NCOs or troops. Well, not unbearably bad, anyway...:D
Project Total Conditioning
The greatest and most scientific study that was ever done was done at West Point in 1975 by Arthur Jones. Which completely disproved all known theories of physical conditioning. The whole thing was actually filmed and not just documented. Since then the Army has done about everything possible to disregard the facts of conditioning that it learned in the study. As Ken said the best way in a pinch is to run an obstacle/fitness course, otherwise lift weights in a circuit fashion with no rests between stations. Link to short paper on the study below.
http://baye.com/wp-content/uploads/2...nditioning.pdf