GEN Clark's Comments about Sen. McCain
I'm sure everybody heard about it:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...n4217971.shtml
I won't lie, I haven't watched the interview, but heard some of the comments on the radio.
I know we have some very wise elders on this council and was curious if any of you personally worked for or with General Wes Clark. What was his reputation while in Uniform? Did his political aspirations begin while he was in the military?
Is the consensus that these comments were of his own accord or did the Democratic leadership put him up to it? (Did Bob Schieffer [sp?] lead him)
Is Clark a potential VP candidate? Did he ruin his chances? What has Obama said in response?
I try to stay as non-partisan as possible; which is ethical for all active duty military; but this is quite interesting...
Hey! I want a Combat Bicycle!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ken White
I'm still pondering the pandering and patent stupidity in that idea -- and how a bicycle rider is going to use a weapon. Talk about questioning the judgment of others...
This cannot really be serious...maybe we can put a turret on the handlebars?
I was serving on the Board of Visitors
of the US Army School of the Americas when Clark was CINC Southcom. I was seated next to him at dinner. My dinner conversation was pleasant but entirely non-substantive, not even about USARSA which was his purpose for being there.
I knew and had dealings with every Southcom Cinc from Dennis P. McAuliffe through Tom Hill. I respected all of them to a greater or lesser extent - save one. I particularly liked Jack Galvin, Goerge Joulwon, and Chuck Wilhelm. I established a friendly working relationship with Paul Gorman (on the USARSA BOV) and a strong personal friendship with Fred Woerner.
Wes Clark is the exception I refer to above.:rolleyes:
Cheers
JohnT
No wrath was involved. I advised Fuchs to avoid the
pure political comments first, Selil just added to my warning and clarified my rather poor attempt to suggest that this is not a political board. It is not, as I said to Fuchs, however, there are plenty out there for those who want to engage in that stuff.
Technically, the originating comment in this thread was broadly political -- but only because Clark himself has made that the case -- and thus was on the borderline of not being a good idea. However, the Poster is a relatively new member and Clark was a long serving member of the Armed Forces so I didn't wade in on it.
So you're correct that Clark is a political issue at this time but the original question to which most here are responding was this:
Quote:
"I know we have some very wise elders on this council and was curious if any of you personally worked for or with General Wes Clark. What was his reputation while in Uniform? Did his political aspirations begin while he was in the military?"
I submit that transcends the purely political and that few questions on Kerry would do so.
I'll also note Selil's comment with respect to the fact that many who post here cannot enter into a political discussion. Those of us who are out can; those still serving cannot. So, no wrath involved nor any surprise or humiliation, just a gentle reminder to stay apolitical while here.
I'm an American and I don't want
anything to do with any of our parties... :mad:
:wry:
Don't think anyone on active duty
has the slightest question -- Selil and I are long off active duty and merely mentioned there were some restrictions (details not deemed required) to some who may not have have been aware of that.
The issue is simply to avoid partisan or ideological commentary that has no bearing on warfighting.
Now let's all talk about Wesley... :D
Clark's version of his Vietnam combat time
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/fea...711.clark.html
Rhetorical question: So how is his experience at getting shot differ from McCain's getting shot down? :confused:
Good that it's rhetorical, I think you answered your
question in the asking if you'll just look...
They differ? Why yes, they do differ, don't they; one got shot, the other got shot down. Sounds different to me.
Immaterial, though, neither action has much effect on the professional reputation of Clark as a retired General. John McCain's getting shot down -- or his reputation in the Navy -- do not have the slightest thing to do with Wesley Clark's reputation in the Army. Nor does your question have anything to do with the question posed at the start of the thread.
Take the politics elsewhere, please.
On Clark and Political Craziness. . .
. . . I second Ken's remark of "I want nothing to do with any of our parties." Unfortunately, I also believe it is folly, and potentially dangerous folly, to claim that the military - and particularly the [senior] officer corps - is beyond politics. What the military does is political (one hopes), and thus will become fodder for partisan politics.
Indeed, I believe this can be a good thing. One needn't look far in history to find the consequences of a military hierarchy believing itself unaffected and unrelated to political sea changes in the country. A quick reading of Liddell-Hart's "The Other Side of the Hill" reveals innumerable German generals claiming innocence in Hitler's ascendence - when in fact they were duplicitous in their silence. That instance may be extreme, but would anyone suggest the services were better off with GENs Wheeler or Johnson's silence over Vietnam? Or Generals Myers, Franks, or others before OIF? On the flip side, Admiral Mullen's willingness to interject himself into a potential campaign issue (his comments on Iran the other day) or Generals Powell, Shilikashvili, and Shelton influencing the decision-making of the Clinton administration, I believe, have been important "interjections" into political decision-making and the political process.
Like you all, I believe the military and its personnel deserve the utmost respect. Where appropriate, their advice and role in our political and policymaking processes are important. I do not desire uniform worship, or the belief that military men are somehow infallible experts, or the stolid, stoic guardians of the Republic. Often lost in Once in Eagle is Anton Myrer's hidden warning of the "prestigious uniformed junta" that World War II created. The respect the military, and particularly the officer corps now commands comes with a price, and I do not believe we can afford a military entirely divorced from the political proceedings of the nation.
Ok, there's the soliloquy. As far as Clark's comments - if they were made in a casual conversation, I would say they were fair. As with the Kagan flap over at Abu Muqawama months ago, just as fair as questioning someone's lack of service is questioning the strategic insight one gains as a low-level serviceman.
But Clark's comments weren't made in some political vacuum - they were made in support of a candidate with no military experience on the campaign trail. They were inherently political and shouldn't have been made.
Don't ask me how to the two of those comments are consistent, but somehow, I'm convinced they are. . .
. . .and my apologies if in any way the above violated the clear and consistent political ROE of SWJ.
Regards,
Matt