Reintegrating Veterans

Critics and pundits are quick to point out the negative secondary and tertiary effects of how some men change upon returning from war; however, few solutions and recommendations are offered.

On the other hand, some organizations simply take action. This is one example. Yes, it is a Christian organization, but it is not pushing religion. It is simply an outreach for vets. They bring vets into their homes for a warm meal.

If y'all know of others, please share.

From talking to many civilians, most want to do something besides sending carepackages and putting yellow ribbons on their cars, but they don't know what to do. They haven't been asked to do anything by the government. So, I guess we can show them.

After experiencing it personally, I could only imagine what would happen if every family in America took one vet in for one night just to say thank you- one simple act of respect and kindness.



Pointman International

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Since 1984, when Seattle Police Officer and Vietnam Veteran Bill Landreth noticed he was arresting the same people each night, he discovered most were Vietnam vets like himself that just never seemed to have quite made it home. He began to meet with them in coffee shops and on a regular basis for fellowship and prayer. Soon, Point Man Ministries was conceived and became a staple of the Seattle area. Bills untimely death soon after put the future of Point Man in jeopardy.

However, Chuck Dean, publisher of a Veterans self help newspaper, Reveille, had a vision for the ministry and developed it into a system of small groups across the USA for the purpose of mutual support and fellowship. These groups are known as Outposts. Worldwide there are hundreds of Outposts and Homefront groups serving the families of veterans.

PMIM is run by veterans from all conflicts, nationalities and backgrounds. Although, the primary focus of Point Man has always been to offer spiritual healing from PTSD, Point Man today is involved in group meetings, publishing, hospital visits, conferences, supplying speakers for churches and veteran groups, welcome home projects and community support. Just about any where there are Vets there is a Point Man presence. All services offered by Point Man are free of charge.

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v/r

Mike

Sounds very worthy.

All I can say here is that since we are in the process of about to start burials at our new under construction Alabama National Cemetery in Montevallo...we have more individual and organizational volunteers than we know what to do with.

We are forming an annual calendar of celebration and commemorative events, Memorial Day, Fourth of July, Armistace Day (I use the old term as my Dad was the youngest American veteran of WW I, a corporal, age 14, wounded on his 15th birthday fighting in the Muse Argon, mustered out of the Army of Occupation of Germany at age 16).

We let the Birmingham VA Hospital Chaplain Service handle all religious requirements for programs, which avoids denominational preferences or favortism, but still we have volunteers coming routinely.

Our big upcoming project is to raise money for an Avenue of Flags, a standardized architectural feature at any new VA National Cemetery, but beyond that we are not yet focused.

George Singleton, USAF, Retired
Director and Treasurer
Support Committee for the
Alabama National Cemetery, Montevallo, Alabama

I'm not sure if it still exist, but SF used to have a program where veterans continued within the community working as civilians to share their knowledge with the next generation.

If the Army adopted this program, then wounded warriors or veterans would have an outlet to share lessons learned that can never be taught or derived in a field manuel from leavenworth or service school in benning.

Plus, it would help retain a sense of purpose and commitment for those that can no longer serve on the front lines.

Can you imagine a Vietnam Combat Medic or wounded Iraq Medic teaching combat life-saving skills to our soldiers? Now, that would be innovative.

v/r

Mike

1. Reintegration programs, especially informal ones run by us private guys are critical.
2. Formal veterans' organizations need to reinvent themselves to do the same.

BUT read the opening sentence of the article ----
most of the guys this cop was arresting were vets. Most, not some, or a few. MOST. No wonder we're considered threats to national security.

Regarding employment, state Vocational Rehabilitation Offices can often pick up the slack and fill the void when the VA comes up short. Voc Rehab offers all kinds of services, job placement being but one small component.

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Originally Posted by Old Eagle

1. Reintegration programs, especially informal ones run by us private guys are critical.
2. Formal veterans' organizations need to reinvent themselves to do the same.

BUT read the opening sentence of the article ----
most of the guys this cop was arresting were vets. Most, not some, or a few. MOST. No wonder we're considered threats to national security.

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Nah... most of us aren't threats to national security... Old Eagle on the other hand is clearly a threat to himself and the rest of us in the greater KC area... I on the other hand am only a threat to myself

Maybe I'm out of touch. I hear lots of talk about veterans having a tough time "coping" or "reintegrating" into society. But I don't see it. I and many of my peers certainly were surprised at life in the civilian world. Most of our new civilian "peers" seem much softer and weaker than the individuals whom we associated with in the Army. But that does not mean there is a need to help us reintegrate or cope. That would be like saying we need reintegration programs for Olympic athletes who wish to return to intramural sports leagues.

Today's military is dealing with PTSD better than ever before and the whole Human Resource packages available to military personnel IMO preps them better for reintegration, a better whole package to return to civilian life when the time comes. Secondy, military personnel these days are more highly regarded than the previous generation - there have been alot of genuine expressions of gratitude, acknowledgement and appreciation than the last generation received. The anti-war sentiment and rhetoric that has manifested has always had a caveat attached, i.e. our troops are good people, deserving of respect and maybe that is because of the nature of the enemy we have collectively grappled with this time around, I don't know but the sentiment is genuine. The current hard times makes it tough on many job seekers but an honorable discharge is still a big ace-in-the hole in many sectors of the job market. Sure, much of civilian life can seem petty and trivial, and it really is, but adjustment to that comes fairly quickly.

I'm more concerned about the long term resources for disabled Vets because my generation of baby boomers is fast approaching geezerhood and we are a massive bump on the demographic bell curve, but, that bridge will be crossed when we get to it. Semper fi.

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Originally Posted by Schmedlap

Maybe I'm out of touch.

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You're not out of touch; this is an issue that simply persist below the radar. Last year, I had trouble adjusting, and I wanted to know why. So I went out and asked questions to anyone I could find on the street or that I met through my social network.

I took a long, hard look at it. I interviewed numerous veterans from various wars and socio-economic statuses ranging from homelessness and gangs to upper-middle, rich classes. Moreover, I asked the opinions of social workers, prison volunteers, psychologists, and psychiatrists that work directly with veterans. The common denominator was that the individuals had some form of issue in coping for some amount of time after combat.

Sample Set (Direct Observation)
Topeka- 40 veterans
Salinas, CA- 10 veterans
Monterey, CA- 20 veterans
Orange County- 5 veterans

I applied the same techniques learned in tracking down al Qaeda in the Diyala River Valley- I simply went out and had honest conversations with them.

What I found was suprising to me. The suprising thread was that the men were bright, informed, and fascinating, but they were still stuck in their war. That's the only way I can describe it right now.

Just somethings to consider. I'm not throwing out generalizations when I make statements. I'm just particularly frustrated by the DHS and others that do.

v/r

Mike

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Originally Posted by Schmedlap

Maybe I'm out of touch. I hear lots of talk about veterans having a tough time "coping" or "reintegrating" into society. But I don't see it. I and many of my peers certainly were surprised at life in the civilian world. Most of our new civilian "peers" seem much softer and weaker than the individuals whom we associated with in the Army. But that does not mean there is a need to help us reintegrate or cope. That would be like saying we need reintegration programs for Olympic athletes who wish to return to intramural sports leagues.

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Very well put.

I don't know how well the Active Duty Component hands the transition. However, I know that when I came off my last deployment most of us National Guard guys were put back on the street less than 5 days after having left theater.

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Originally Posted by Schmedlap

Maybe I'm out of touch. I hear lots of talk about veterans having a tough time "coping" or "reintegrating" into society. But I don't see it. I and many of my peers certainly were surprised at life in the civilian world. Most of our new civilian "peers" seem much softer and weaker than the individuals whom we associated with in the Army. But that does not mean there is a need to help us reintegrate or cope. That would be like saying we need reintegration programs for Olympic athletes who wish to return to intramural sports leagues.

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Very well said.

Most of the programs out there are desigend to help veterans "overcome" rather than "transition" and I worry that we put too much emphasis on tossing out the baby with the bathwater.

Case in point here: http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?a...52&section=104

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Originally Posted by Courtney Massengale

Very well said.

Most of the programs out there are desigend to help veterans "overcome" rather than "transition" and I worry that we put too much emphasis on tossing out the baby with the bathwater.

Case in point here: http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?a...52&section=104

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I remember about a month or so ago a story about a returned soldier and his family who's kid( who was sleeping in a tent on a campground where they were staying while he looked for a job) had to go to the hospital after getting run over by the vehicle which ran over the tent when he went to start it up in the morning. Last thing I saw was him telling the news that he hoped to get a place for them to stay as soon as he could.

Question that ran through my mind was. how recently did he get back and was anyone in his former chain even aware of the circumstances his family was in to at least have helped find alternative options let alone job placement assistance?

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Originally Posted by Ron Humphrey

Question that ran through my mind was. how recently did he get back and was anyone in his former chain even aware of the circumstances his family was in to at least have helped find alternative options let alone job placement assistance?

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What does his 'former chain' have to do with the case as you relay it? What kind of alternatives could they have offered? What job placement assistance could they have offered. Do they have an obligation to do any of those things? Either way, should they have such an obligation?

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Originally Posted by Ken White

What does his 'former chain' have to do with the case as you relay it? What kind of alternatives could they have offered? What job placement assistance could they have offered. Do they have an obligation to do any of those things? Either way, should they have such an obligation?

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I guess the crux of my ponderings was more in the arena has this guy even tried to get in contact with anyone from the mil side to seek assistance in finding answers to those questions they might be able to answer.

Perhaps I have misunderstood its purpose but I coulda sworn thats what some of the push over the last few years has been in regards to making help available even if it's just some general direction assistance. (and whether it would be sought by those who need it).

Military One source
VA
about a hundred large scale vet support groups both private and publicly funded

just my .00000000035676555432 cents but
Mental health ain't the only arena in which many for any number of reasons don't seek the assistance they should. :confused:

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Originally Posted by Ron Humphrey

I guess the crux of my ponderings was more in the arena has this guy even tried to get in contact with anyone from the mil side...

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Once you're discharged, the Services can't do much for you -- that's what the VA is for. As I read your post, it appeared the guy was no longer in the service. If he got back from a deployment one day and was discharged the next, his former unit (not the people in it, they can do pretty much what they wish to support a former member but the legal entity that is the unit) has no relationship with him. Nor IMO, should it.

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Perhaps I have misunderstood its purpose but I coulda sworn thats what some of the push over the last few years has been in regards to making help available even if it's just some general direction assistance. (and whether it would be sought by those who need it).

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That's true but there are two categories; those still in uniform that the unit does have a responsibility for -- and units exercise that responsibility on a scale of from bad to great, just like they do on everything else. However, once one is discharged, if they need help there are plenty of places that provide it -- the VA, State Veteran Assistance offices and many private organizations

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just my .00000000035676555432 cents but Mental health ain't the only arena in which many for any number of reasons don't seek the assistance they should. :confused:

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True. In or out, Been in or never been in. Some ask for help, some won't take it, some will give help, some won't. Military or civilian, people are people.

I can't speak to the mental health issues, insofar as PTSD and the like are concerned. I do know that a lot of guys have trouble reintegrating into civilian society when they leave the military. My wife used to work at TRICARE and saw lots of retirees and I have known quite a few myself. The military is a fairly unique organization and many members have little to no contact with civilians other than spouses and family. They don't know how civilians think, how they act, how they interact with one another, how they work, etc. It is as foreign a culture to them as the military culture would be to the average civilian. I have known more than one DA civilian who first had a civilian job but couldn't stand working with civilians and spent all of their time trying to find a DOD job that allowed to work in a military environment again. I have also heard that it is not uncommon for senior career military members with 30+ years of active service to die not long after retirement. Apparently after that many years of service the change of lifestyle is depressing, sometimes very much so.
The other thing that seems to happen is that a lot of guys get out, either retire or ETS, without a plan. Many of these guys find that their military experience does not open as many employment doors as they believed. My wife saw a lot of these in TRICARE.

SFC W

Hung up my war suit with 27 years, worked for a civilian outfit for a while -- they were pretty good, as one of the Senior engineers told me "We're Hughes Aircraft, we can put a Cow on the Moon and tell you how we got it there." Probably true -- but they had just as many dummies in high places as did the Army. Probably more. I know they did equally dumb things and were as bureaucratic...

Left that for less pay and went the DAC route; neat, just like being in unigram except no one is too sure how to treat civilians so you can do pretty much what you want to get a job done.

Now been retired from even that for going on fifteen years. Still do not mesh well with the civilian society in which I live. Nor do I want to. Good news is I'm making a mockery of the old war horses die young bit. :cool:

Well, as of today, anyway... :D

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Originally Posted by Uboat509

It is as foreign a culture to them as the military culture would be to the average civilian. I have known more than one DA civilian who first had a civilian job but couldn't stand working with civilians and spent all of their time trying to find a DOD job that allowed to work in a military environment again.

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I'm living it right now. On my last job, during the interview, the interviewer stated that the job could be stressful and asked me how I would cope. How do you answer that without coming off as cocky or condescending? I still don't know, so I opted for cocky.

I got the job and stuck with it through the initial term, but just didn't like working in an office, didn't like working with civilians, and politely declined to remain after the initial term. My impression is that I wouldn't like civilian work outside of an office either. With a bunch of deployments under my belt (and the gobs of money that I had no choice but to save) I figure that I don't need to work, so I don't. Finish school, go back in the Army. That's the plan. Hopefully the cash doesn't run out before then because I really hate working civilian jobs.

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Originally Posted by Old Eagle

1. Reintegration programs, especially informal ones run by us private guys are critical.
2. Formal veterans' organizations need to reinvent themselves to do the same.

BUT read the opening sentence of the article ----
most of the guys this cop was arresting were vets. Most, not some, or a few. MOST. No wonder we're considered threats to national security.

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Who considers Vets a threat to national security? I mean besides the Obama administration (sorry about bringing politics into this). I can recall the same kind of thing being said at the end of the Viet-Nam war. Well it was BS then and it's BS now. Not to say some vets don't have problems and they don't deserve all the hepl we can give them.

Subtle hint: I bet Pointman International or any related organizations would be willing to take some money, or if you so choose your time.
/Subtle hint

Someone might have handly a demographic breakdown whichd:

1: Shows where in real numbers (or extrapolated numbers) the veteran homeless population is concerntrated.

2. The VA may have some on line data to help answer #1 above and to answer what types of diagnosis (plural intended) exist on those veterans being seen from the homeless veteran population.

After any and all shooting wars, which we are certainly involved in today, it is a matter of psychological adjustment to get away from the stress of battle(s). Over time most of us adjust routinely by simply "keeping on keeping on."

Other can only adjust partially, some few never can adjust, and I would suggest it takes an outreach program specifially for homeless veterans to work with the tough core of complicated problems psychologal (mental health) as well as literal physical needs (dental, illnesses, RX needs for to be established actual medical diagnoses).

The VA alone is not the data source on homeless veterans today vs. the not for profit and for profit hospitals and outpatient clinics, including psychiatric/psychological counseling programs, but I believe the VA remains the best single data source.

Perhaps the US Public Health Service might be a best secondary data source as they should (?) be able to add data to the VA homeless data base without double counting veterans by simply using screen out duplication via any veteran patient's SSN.