Ukraine: military (Aug '14 to mid-June '15) closed
Moderator's Note
I have decided to:
- Close the existing main Ukraine (catch all) thread (1991 replies and 99k views) and move all August posts to here
- Create two threads for current matters
- First the fighting and military aspects - this thread
- Secondly the wider non-military context (diplomacy, politicis, economics etc)
- The Russian Info Ops thread is now in the Europe arena (ends)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AmericanPride
So - duplicity is a trait of a rogue state?
AP---this is a good read as a beginning learner for you--even some inside Russia state close to what I am saying and I am not even Russian.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinio...ia/504196.html
The power behind the story?
Cited in part:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OUTLAW 09
The UK Independent reported this morning of a secret Putin/Merkel peace plan for the Ukraine---"gas for land" ie the Crimea remains Russian with Russia paying billions for lost Ukrainian Black Sea Fleet rents and the Ukraine gets a long term lower gas price for their economy.
Link:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...s-9638764.html
Outlaw09,
I find this story odd, first though this was a deal:
Quote:
However, these attempts by Ms Merkel to act as a broker between President Putin and the Ukraine’s President, Petro Poroshenko, were put on the back-burner following the shooting down of the MH17 plane in eastern Ukraine.
Does the fact that The Independent is owned by Alexander Lebedev, a Russian oligarch in exile in London a factor? He also owns the London Evening Standard, which is a free evening paper.
Wiki seems to think it is:
Quote:
The paper originally described itself as "free from party political bias, free from proprietorial influence"—a banner it carried on the front page of its daily edition. This banner was dropped in September 2011.
Link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Independent
'Ukrainian Rebels' Aren't Ukrainian or Rebels
At first this headline in 'The Moscow Times' puzzled me,, but they do explain they are a Moscow-based, independent English language newspaper:http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinio...ls/504197.html
No surprises in the content. more that this is available inside Russia:
Quote:
Rather than Ukrainian citizens carrying a legitimate grievance against the Kiev government's pro-EU outlook, they are outsiders and usurpers, men with either mercenary or imperial motivations. They are pro-Russian, yes. They are separatists. But these men are invaders — and they are not Ukrainians.
Ukraine: military aspects (August 2014 onwards)
On reflection I have decided to:
- Close this the existing main Ukraine (catch all) thread (1991 replies and 99k views)
- Create two threads for current matters
- First the fighting and military aspects - this thread
- Secondly the wider non-military context (diplomacy, politicis, economics etc)
- The Russian Info Ops thread is now in the Europe arena