Best Staff War Stories

Thought I would start a thread where real warriors could swap yarns about the center of modern warfare - the staff. COIN, SSTR, MCO, Thermonuclear War all share one thing: staff officers. Only one rule: no second-hand war stories. However, feel free to poach any found here next time you're sitting around the lobby of the Doubletree knockin' back a few appletinis.

Here's my favorite:

Back in the day, we were preparing to take on the 3rd Guards Shock Army at Hohenfels, when the brigade assistant S-2 got up to brief. Everything was going well when the brigade commander interrupted. "What was the basic load of AT missiles carried by the T-80?", he asked. The A/S-2 looked up from his notes.

"I don't know, sir."

The brigade commander was a good guy, not prone to torturing briefers, so he let it pass.

Next day, the same young intelligence officer got up to brief again. At the end of his briefing, the brigade commander again asked how many AT missiles the T-80 carried.

The captain took a deep breath and replied in a tone one normally reserved for dealing with slow children. "Sir, as I briefed yesterday...I don't know!"

He never briefed again.

Ok here we go...

In 1991 as we the Air Operation opened, the CSA decided he wanted a private brief at code word level with only staff principals. The normal brief in the ops center would go on as scheduled but we would hold the special brief downstairs adjacent to the intel SCIF. The new briefing area immediately became known as the Bat Cave.

The set up showed who was a prince and who was not. The CSA and Vice sat in high back leather chairs, The DCSOPs (3 star) sat at on end of the table and the AOC director (2 star) sat at the other. Their chairs were leather as well; the backs were not quite as high as those of the CSA and Vice. The other three staff principals (3 stars) sat in cheaper chairs along the back wall; these chairs did not even have arm rests.

There were rules: The brief started when the CSA's butt hit the chair (or the Vice if the Chief was gone); and everyone had better be there when the CSA sat down. An unspoken rule was only questions came from the CSA, the Vice, and the Ops (who generally did follow up questions after the CSA or Vice had asked something. The three principals along the back wall were there to answer questions, not to ask them. Their main rule was to stay in their own lane in answering such questions.

Well one of those guys just couldn't follow the rules. He showed up late. He asked questions about ops issues. He even suggested ops changes which sorta broke the camel's back. The next day I heard the Ops and the AOC Director exhange a few words concerning the offending principal, something to the effect "its taken care of".

The CSA was gone so as the Vice walked in and sat down I started talking. Only to stop as you know who walked in late. I noted that the AOC Director winked at the Ops as the late comer hurried to his chair and sat down.

Instead of just sitting comfortably, the late 3-star who was fairly short had to do a sort of jumping perch onto the chair and then immediately grab both sides to keep from falling off. Someone mysteriously had extended the chair as high as it would go. His feet could not touch the floor. He remained caught in a teeter-totter balancing act for the rest of the brief.

As the briefer I could see all of this but I could also see that the Ops and the AOC Director could barely keep from giggling while they watched me try not to laugh.

It was the last time the offender was late to a Bat Cave brief. And he always checked his chair before sitting down.

Generals will be boys too

Tom

It is with tremendous gratitude that I can say that I spent over 80 percent of my career at the company or platoon level. Thus, the nearest story that I have involves a company CP - but I think it is close enough to qualify, since their duties mirrored that of the TOC rats at our BN staff...

During OIF III, our company CP was run by our NBC NCO. He was an easily excitable fellow. At about the midway point of our deployment, we had managed to tame our city such that instead of 1 firefight and 1 mortar attack every day, we were seeing no direct fire engagements and we went about a month without a mortar attack. That is, until the the day of this story.

After a few weeks without a single mortar attack upon our small, humble patrol base, some new mortarmen arrived into the city and announced their presence with a salvo of 82-mm mortars that were among the most well-placed of any of the 100+ that we were hit by over the course of a 12-month deployment. In the past, such an incident would barely cause anyone to flinch. But, I guess that during the month of inactivity, my NBC NCO got a little complacent. The mortar salvo happened to hit while we were eating our twice-weekly hot meal. I am not exaggerating in the least when I say that, upon the impact of the first mortar round in the 5-round barrage, my NBC NCO flipped over backwards in his plastic lawn chair and literally threw his plate of General Tso's chicken no less than 8 feet into the air. The CP was covered in the foul-smelling, foul-tasting, wretched slime that is General Tso's cruel legacy. My commander and I were laughing so hard that I nearly forgot to go outside and check for casualties.

But as an analyst I was working in the staff section for about a week during which I completed my assigned tasks and then in the extra time found ways to make fancier and more detailed representations of said info.

Worked pretty hard and was kinda proud of myself till couple days in someone asked why I was doing that; it wasn't necessary, and silly. So I stopped adding to it put all in one folder and set it to be the screen saver.

Two days later had been sent somewhere else to work on a different project and recieved the first of two or three calls from various individuals asking "

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that thing on the computer where'd you get it?

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and

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How'd you do that again?

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:wry:

If you guys are going to do this, I'm going to have a start another thread entitled Real Professor War Stories. Like that tragic time I could find neither latakia based pipe tobacco or a decent dry sherry anywhere in town...

Perhaps Steve Metz could divine a good war story from the late, great Harry Summers since Steve's office at the AWC is Harry's old office. I think that is totally cool. The closest I can get to that is that my office on the first floor of Thayer Hall on the west side of it probably had Patton and his horse ride over the same spot when it was a horse riding stable back in the day.

My staff war story, unlike Schmedlap, but like other old staff hands like Tom Odom and Ron H, I have lots of time on staff. Let's see; OK, I remember in the BCT Toc when I was BCT XO in OIF1 in Tikrit within days after he took command we briefed LTG Sanchez on current operations. I remember him being really good with numbers, much better than me, but fortunately the Bde 3 was a lot smarter than I was and briefed the General and handled his numbers questions pretty well.

I was recently in a brief for an incoming BCT. The majority of the Comd and staff were on their second or third Iraq tour.

The 'cultural intelligence' expert takes the stage, adopts a suitably 'expert' demeanour ...and begins the brief with the pearl of wisdom that '97% of Iraqis are Moslem....'

The BCT commander immediately dead pannned back ' No ####! If only we had known that five years ago.....'

Back in my sordid past, I was a logistician (and terrible at it, but that is a seperate story). I was the S4 of one of seperate battalions, so I was routinely at the COSCOM staff briefs to the general. The CG, Brigadier General Larry Lust (no, I could not have made that up) had a reputation as being an ogre to brief. He routinely ranted and questioned the intelligence and competence of his staff and commanders in open forums. No kidding, colonels would sweat and tremble like they were about to fall out when they briefed him, his own staff was so scared of him that they told people to... finesse numbers in order to avoid upsetting him.

So there I was, 1LT Van, Bn S4, when BG Lust decided to go on a rampage about "why all these darn reports of survey don't move faster". I had recently completed two, but only just under the time limit. And then BG Lust turns the guns on me, why did these surveys take more than a month to complete? And there was an intake of breathe out of sympathy and pity for me. I looked him square in the eye, told him I screwed up, that I was new at this, admitted that I had lost a lot of time because I was learning the process, had learned a lot, and would do better next time. At which point BG Lust nodded, said "O.K." and moved on to the next issue. His own staff was stunned and amazed that he hadn't eaten me alive in front of the entire COSCOM command and staff. And on that day, I truly internalized the whole "make no excuses" thing.

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Originally Posted by Mark O'Neill

I was recently in a brief for an incoming BCT. The majority of the Comd and staff were on their second or third Iraq tour.

The 'cultural intelligence' expert takes the stage, adopts a suitably 'expert' demeanour ...and begins the brief with the pearl of wisdom that '97% of Iraqis are Moslem....'

The BCT commander immediately dead pannned back ' No ####! If only we had known that five years ago.....'

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That would make a great Guiness commercial....:D

A different title, I know, but you'll understand if you can get through to the end of this posting...

There I was sitting in an Ulchi Focus Lens exercise as an ADA BN S3 with the 101st AASLT (MAIN). I was a recently returned planner from 2ID, and I thought I had a pretty firm grasp of the unique challenges associated with conducting operations on the Korean Penninsula...

As I came on duty, I thought for sh!ts and giggles, I stopped by the plans tent to see what Corps had dreamt up in the middle of the night. As I walked in I saw a buzz of activity at the map board (1:25,000) involving the Chief of Plans, Div G3, and CoS. Sensing something big I asked the plans CPT for a copy of the FRAGO causing all the action. He quickly handed the hard copy to me, stating smuggly "Planning big Air Assault Op." Hmmm.... Despite the fact that this seemed unfeasible unless someone did some magic moves during the night, I read the order... I paraphrase....

Conduct AASLT to secure bridge at grid AB12345678 IOT pass 4ID, graphics due NLT 12 hours Seeing as I am not an infantryman, I focused more on the pass 4ID (deliberate river crossing) than I did the AASLT. Silly me!!! When I tried to pry the Chief of Plans (a good friend from SAMS) away from the map board, he informed me they were too busy planning the AASLT. I mentioned that a couple of CPTs could pick or at least recommend the LZs, and that they might want to start planning the deliberate river crossing and passage of a Heavy Division. I got a blank look and then, "We do AASLTs" they'll worry about the river." The graphics produced literally resembled a toilet seat in shape and had one contact point and passage lane for 4ID...

A little saddened, I ran into the previous year's G2 planner (and the Chief of Plans Wife) as I exited the tent... Her first words were, "did you see what they are doing?" When I nodded, she stated "he wouldn't listen to you either? The hell with it let him fail, it'll teach him lesson in humility."

Now that's harsh, but she was right and it did.

I bet Gian can figure out the names. :D

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Originally Posted by Gian P Gentile

Perhaps Steve Metz could divine a good war story from the late, great Harry Summers since Steve's office at the AWC is Harry's old office. I think that is totally cool. The closest I can get to that is that my office on the first floor of Thayer Hall on the west side of it probably had Patton and his horse ride over the same spot when it was a horse riding stable back in the day.

My staff war story, unlike Schmedlap, but like other old staff hands like Tom Odom and Ron H, I have lots of time on staff. Let's see; OK, I remember in the BCT Toc when I was BCT XO in OIF1 in Tikrit within days after he took command we briefed LTG Sanchez on current operations. I remember him being really good with numbers, much better than me, but fortunately the Bde 3 was a lot smarter than I was and briefed the General and handled his numbers questions pretty well.

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LTG Sanchez WAS pretty good with numbers. But sometimes he seemed a little challenged with "reality".

We were briefing him with a series of slides, and it always amazed us with how he was able to "zoom in" on a number as the slides whipped by him. But one day, we found out mere moments before the briefing started that one number was not correct. So, when the slide flipper (not me that day, thank God) got to that slide, he made a special point to mention that the numbers on the flatracks returned for the PLS was incorrect, the actual number was "umpteen" instead of "gazillion". Of course, LTG Sanchez zoomed right in on the "gazillion" number, and started grilling everyone in effective grenade range on why that number was "gazillion", despite being corrected every single time, that the "gazillion" number was misreported, and was not correct.

Between that and the constant input on slide color, I developed a certain dislike for the good LTG.

was getting briefed on something as down in the weeds and stupid at his level as the number of flatracks but I know the answer:

We've lost our cotton picking minds and the inmates are in charge... :mad:

Sheesh...

When I was a young Squadron S2, our Staff SGM once sent a newly-minted 96B E-5 out to find "soft-spots" on the armor of the M577. He gave him a ball-peen hammer and a piece of chalk, of course, but right after he left, the BDE CDR, a COL Ferrea (4th BDE, 3ID circa 1989) showed up unexpected. COL Ferrea was a bulldog, who was doing his "thing", and we'd forgotten all about the good SGT, until the tapping of the hammer started to be heard, followed by the squeak of chalk.

Our NCOs were turning a shade of purple, and COL Ferrea glared at me and said, "1LT, what the hell is going on here." Staff SGM had mercy on my tender soul, and nervously told the good COL about the 96B SGT, and the COL got the most evil twinkle in his eye, and excused himself. He confronted the SGT, and asked him what he was doing. The SGT decided to cover his ignorance of armored vehicles by "making #### up" to explain what he was doing, which was hilarious.

Later on in my career, in my first Troop Command, I had a TOC daddy that was a freaking genius. He kitted out our TOC like the Taj Mahal, complete with a full kitchen, stereo, and all the amenities of home. Unfortunately, the Squadron and higher staffs started figuring out that meal time around our Troop TOC would be the optimal time to "inspect" us, and obtw, they would graciously accept the fine meal my TOC Daddy had prepared. So.... initially, he would only give the grid location "offset", so that only Troop personnel would find it. This didn't last long, so he enacted "Operation Friskies". He went to Aldi's, where he purchased a flat of cat food, and a flat of potted meat, and swapped the labels, throwing away the cat food.

The next few times that Staff types showed up to "inspect" at meal times, they would pop a couple of cans of "cat food" which they'd be eating by the time the Staffer made it through our perimeter. Of course, my TOC Daddy would always be gracious enough to offer a can to the Staffer, saying that "Hey, this stuff is only 17 cents at Aldi's, and most of the cans are pretty good!!!"

I have more, but I gotta go back to work....

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Originally Posted by Ken White

was getting briefed on something as down in the weeds and stupid at his level as the number of flatracks but I know the answer:

We've lost our cotton picking minds and the inmates are in charge... :mad:

Sheesh...

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Actually, it's as simple as the Corps ran out of flatracks, because units were dumping them in the desert and leaving them. Same thing with shipping containers. Evidently, "real men" don't backhaul empty flatracks....:rolleyes:

There used to be a simple fix for that sort of stuff -- which is as old as war -- and it didn't need to involve a Corps Commander, who was told without numbers or naming units merely that it appeared to be the beginning of a potential problem and lower echelon Commanders fixed it before it got there... :cool:

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Originally Posted by SteveMetz

If you guys are going to do this, I'm going to have a start another thread entitled Real Professor War Stories. Like that tragic time I could find neither latakia based pipe tobacco or a decent dry sherry anywhere in town...

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Given that the Colin Gray book I'm reading quotes Fred Charles Ikle as saying that a good strategist's:

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. . .soul must be in harmony with this world of ours. He must not only appreciate different cultures and and good art, but also find nourishment in things that are beautiful and be endowed with a sense of humor. He might have an eye for architecture or painting, an ear for the best music; he must have a broad understanding of philosophy, literature, and, of course, history. And - why not? - let me have men about me that are sophisticated epicures.

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I wasn't so sure before, given your affinity for rattlesnake barbecue and the Gamecocks, but now - latakia based pipe tobacco (whatever the hell that is) and fine dry sherry - I am convinced strategic studies is indeed your proper calling.

I'll buy the new book now.

Regards,

Matt

Again, not while I was a staff officer, but this one occurred in our battalion staff room, as all company XO's met with the new battalion XO to give him an overview of our maintenance issues. Close enough.

The new XO had apparently been listening a bit too much to our 2LT BMO. The BMO's big thing was dispatching. He was a stickler for dispatches. Apparently he had convinced the new XO that any maintenance issues that existed in the battalion were due to dispatches - or lack thereof. To those of us who were scrambling to just repair critical battle damage, dispatches were not high on the priority list.

We had been in the meeting no more than 30 seconds before the XO asked me about my dispatches - or my lack thereof. I casually pointed out that none of my vehicles were dispatched, not realizing the outburst that was about to follow. The XO, whom I had only met for the first time 5 minutes earlier, pounded his fist on the table and unleashed a thundering rebuke of my performance as company XO and, with the accusatory point of his finger, declared that "you haven't had more than 12 out of 14 Bradleys FMC in two months! That is a direct consequence of blowing off dispatching procedures!"

My response: "Sir, I haven't had more than 12 out of 14 Bradleys FMC in two months because we've got 2 Bradleys that are in the process of being coded out due to battle damage, but they're being included in our maintenance status because they're still at our patrol base. They're still at our patrol base because the BMO won't cut us an M88 to drag them from the patrol base to the FOB. I'm not going to use my M88 because it is deadlined due to parts that have been on order for a month and we still use it pull pack and recover damaged vehicles everyday. I'm not risking any more wear and tear on it just to do the BMO's job. But I will dispatch the other 12 Bradleys if the BMO can fix his ULLS box and provide us with some 5988E's. We haven't gotten any since April, so we've been writing our faults on notebook paper, then copying them into emails and sending them to the BMT."

A very awkward silence followed for at least 3 or 4 seconds as everyone looked at the BMO in anticipation of some response. Instead, the silence was broken by my maintenance team chief who was sitting in the back, reveling in the moment. Unable to think of any other way to convey his thoughts about the exchange, or his pleasure at the "oh crap" look on the BMO's face, he simply shouted, "DAMN!"

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Originally Posted by Ken White

There used to be a simple fix for that sort of stuff -- which is as old as war -- and it didn't need to involve a Corps Commander, who was told without numbers or naming units merely that it appeared to be the beginning of a potential problem and lower echelon Commanders fixed it before it got there... :cool:

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Agreed. There is/was a definite lack of people held responsible for their lack of leadership.

Several of the active duty folks responsible for these kinds of failures were 'gently' moved to other responsibilities to allow more capable reserve officers to try to fix it, and then 'gently' moved back into the job just prior to the end of their rating periods, so they could get their "1" block.

As one of those reserve officers who took over a job from an active duty officer one grade my senior, I have since developed a healthy chip on my shoulder vis-a-vis the active component's officer corps.

Sorry way to do business. Had it not been for the Guard and Reserve in DS/DS, logistic failure would've virtually been guaranteed.

Both the then Chief of staff and the then DCSOPS tried -- very stupidly, IMO -- everything in their power to avoid a callup. Abrams had outsmarted 'em :D

We really need to repair that AC/RC disconnect, it's every bit as dangerous as the conventional force / SOF disconnect. Both are wrong and both need fixing.

As a NG Divison Cavalry Squadron S2, I watched the S4 write out a resupply message requesting amongst other things "50,000 gallons of cottage cheese and three lederhosen", just to prove to the Squadron commander that no one at G level was reading our reports. :D

The request, in it's entirety, was approved...

Grafenwohr WARFIGHTER, April 1999

Playing the part of the night shift BDE S2 (with someone else's NG Division), we were doing better than projected against a quasi-Iraqi OPFOR. I watched a young RA 2LT LNO (1st ID, IIRC) updating his Commander: "Sir, they're not like us... they're playing music and ordering pizza to the TOC. I don't know exactly what they're doing or how they're doing it, but it's working".

*snicker*

Fort Drum, summer 2000
As SQD S2, I laid out a Route Recon lane for the Scout Platoons. The PSGs in A Troop were both older (the oldest pushing 50), so I got an MRE box and set it under a bridge along the route. In laundry pen, it was labeled WHEELCHAIR PARTS. I'd also made up some the Blair Witch Project icons (out of W2 wire and straight branches, knitted togethor at the last Command & Staff meeting), which I hung in the trees just short of the bridge. See http://www.lovefilm.com/lovefilm/ima...2132-large.jpg

About two hours later, "Black 2, this is Red 4. Spot reports follows. Possible Satanic activity and age discrimination, vicinity A003..."

Same time period: an Infantry Battalion insisted on making up their own interpretation of the SOI and using the code page for how many days they had been at AT (rather than which day of the month it was, 1 thru 10). This put them on our Squadron push, and they failed to listen to reason.
The S3 gave me permission to chase them off our frequency, so it became a training opportunity (section drill, how to do your own MIJI mission). Every time they started to broadcast, we transmitted the Volga Boatmen song (track 8 on this very CD http://www.amazon.com/Cossacks/dp/B0000058FS) from our CD player (as well as rude comments in mock-Russian accent) until their TOC finally whimpered "All such-and-such, switch to alternate frequency".

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Originally Posted by AdamG

Grafenwohr WARFIGHTER, April 1999

Playing the part of the night shift BDE S2 (with someone else's NG Division), we were doing better than projected against a quasi-Iraqi OPFOR. I watched a young RA 2LT LNO (1st ID, IIRC) updating his Commander: "Sir, they're not like us... they're playing music and ordering pizza to the TOC. I don't know exactly what they're doing or how they're doing it, but it's working".

*snicker*

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Small world. I was playing Corps Rear G2 for that Warfighter.

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Originally Posted by Ken White

We really need to repair that AC/RC disconnect, it's every bit as dangerous as the conventional force / SOF disconnect. Both are wrong and both need fixing.

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I got a call up for Clinton's reelection and got sent to Germany as an MP. The actives hated us. The AD troops were one man to a room, they put us two in the cruddy barracks with the active guys they were throwing out (the losers were, of course, one to a room).

They were screwing with us every chance they got. They stuck us on twelves and made us fix stuff up for the active troops in the BSB, they used to bitch at us and threaten us every day. They had a change of command and made us march in it so their guys could party instead. Every little crap detail they could invent they did.

I really took a dislike to active army officers after that little joy trip. Those guys should be making general right about now, which....

After a 48hour patrol I was giving a debrief to the MSG(NG) that was in charge that night. I recapped that we were watching an IED site (overt patrol) and that we went into the village right next to it. ( it was about 300meters away). We did a simple drive around, presence patrol. I left a dismount on the IED site while we had eyes off. A Capt. (NG) who was listening asked why I patrolled the town. I calmly relayed that I chose to do that because I thought maybe the ones planting IEDs were from that town and that I would do more to accomplish the mission if I did the "beat cop" thing. I could almost see the light bulb go on over his head when he said "Yeah, that was a good call. Maybe we should do that". His unit was in charge of the towns and my unit was working the roads between the towns

I wish I was making this up.

As a side note, the FOB that I was on had about a 120degree "secure" perimeter. The rest was open. When the SGM (NG) that was in charge of security on the FOB was asked about this he said that the enemy only attacked from the front. (Yes he really said that. I grew up just south of Lake George and have been reading about Robert Rogers for a long time. I almost lost it)

Lack of Security on the FOB was confirmed by 3rd ID CSM (AD) who was in charge of AO at that time...he said that he would do his best to correct the issue. It was not corrected

I wish I was making this up.

I was NG (OIF III)

Before this degrades into an "us and them" AD vs. AR/NG thing, what's sad about it, is that both sides have different, complementary strengths and weaknesses, which should, and have resulted in very good units.

High level and CSS staffs tend to be better as Army Reserve formations. (There is no practical way to train an AD guy on how to do higher level logistics) The operational and mid- to lower level tactical formations are much better as Active Duty. (i.e., some BDEs, Almost all BNs, and most Companies.) Smaller level tactical units can be a wash, especially during peacetime, between AD and NG. And low density, specialty MOSs are almost always superior outside of the AD Army.

Back to the "war stories" topic. When I was on the way out of my second command (of a DIV CAV HHT) I was "rewarded" with an additional AT as an LNO to the 29th SIB in Hawai'i. Seems the 29th has never worked with their Cavalry Troop, and they wanted an experienced CAV officer to provide LNO services between the ad hoc 2 Troop Squadron they were plussing the unit up with for a JRTC rotation.

While Hawai'i was beautiful, the SIB staff didn't want a thing to do with me, (because I was a white mainlander) or my "crazy extra units." They wouldn't even give us a radio net.

So... 6 months later, when we went to Fort Polk, Yours Truly got together with all the additional units (1 x Australian LRRP PLT, 1 x Mech Inf Co, 1 x Tank Co, 1 x ATK helo Co, 1 x Light Recon Troop, and 1 x Air CAV Troop) and hammered out a deal, where, on our own hook, we formed a SuperBattalion that was completely independent of the 29SIB CoC. And because I had access to the BDE TOC, I was de facto commander.

Once the rotation started, as expected, the Hawai'ians excluded us from planning, support and radio nets, so we kept our ears open, and ended up killing upwards of 96% of the enemy in sector, on our own. The 29SIB flailed around and failed miserably in every thing it attempted, OTOH, including things like attempting to maneuver Battalions on 3-6 man ambushes.

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Originally Posted by 120mm

Before this degrades into an "us and them" AD vs. AR/NG thing, what's sad about it, is that both sides have different, complementary strengths and weaknesses, which should, and have resulted in very good units.

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Oh come on now... MY National guard experience with active duty was so great I transferred to the Marines...... :D

At a periodic MR-III Province Representatives staff meeting in 1973 Vietnam, I had just completed my briefing on the security situation in Gia Dinh Province with a gratuitous tidbit--a time-honored metric, the total number of RF ops--from squad-size to regimental--for the quarter, which was in the thousands--and the total number of contacts, which was five....Now, the Gia Dinh RF had long been notorious for their lack of aggressiveness...(Aside: yes, there was also habitual GVN underreporting of contacts and friendly casualties)..... This was important because that province's Territorials--equivalent to a division in troop strength--were concurrently the RF for the Capital Special Zone (formerly Capital Military District)...Anyway, my closing comment had detracted from a reasonable (in my view) presentation, and did not impress because this was entirely predictable, and the numbers would have been available anyhow through the DAO channel...

After each briefing, the bosses went around the table. They frequently tore into the presenter. In the event, the chairman, our Principal Officer, a State Dept. Senior Foreign Service type and former III-Corps DEPCORDS, graced me with a tolerant, disdainful smile--but no comment. Next, the Chief of the Bien Hoa CIA base, who had kindly feigned interest and offered reflex raised eyebrows, had no questions..

Then my immediate boss-the guy who ran us Prov-Reps in CORDS's much diminished successor organization, SAA/FO, offered an observation...This outstanding individual, Cliff Nunn, by then a civilian, was a former Lt. Col who had been recruited for Vietnam by John Vann in 1965 and served continuously in VN for the next decade, including many years as a PSA (head of a CORDS Priovince Team)...In a half-mumbled Southern Indiana ramble, he said, more in sorrow than in anger,

"Well, Mike....Five contacts...You know, really looks like enemy strength in your province has increased significantly...In fact, they are now so numerous that it's physically impossible to avoid running into them...!"

I just collected a "staff war story" last week:

Every day at 1000, we have a staff meeting, where we review the next 72 hours of operations. We come to a consensus on how things need to be adjusted on the schedule, and I am the responsible individual for making those changes in the tracking database.

Well, a gentleman comes up to me, and in a stage whisper, asks me how come I hadn't made this certain change from three days ago, and gives me the paper copy to prove it. There is still 5 minutes before the meeting, so I rush to the computer, bring up the database, and surprise! the change had been made in the computer, three days ago.

It's not unknown for the computer to take a dump, and print an old copy, so I go out, and grab one of the copies off the table, and upon review, note the change had hit the table. I then look closely at the sheet of paper idiot-boy had handed me, and was surprised to find that it was a sheet from 3 days ago. I point this out, and I can see what I am saying did not register in this guys brain-pan housing group.

So, the dude honestly believed, that when I made a computer change, it should automatically change the original, paper copy, he had in his possession. :(

I kid you not, the guy went away angry, that I couldn't make his paper copy change, via the computer. The good news: I get to work with this guy again.:eek:

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So, the dude honestly believed, that when I made a computer change, it should automatically change the original, paper copy, he had in his possession.

I kid you not, the guy went away angry, that I couldn't make his paper copy change, via the computer. The good news: I get to work with this guy again.

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Another walking talking Guiness commercial...:D

Brilliant!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by 120mm

I kid you not, the guy went away angry, that I couldn't make his paper copy change, via the computer. The good news: I get to work with this guy again.:eek:

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There is only one thing you can say to guys like that "You go first".

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Originally Posted by 120mm

Before this degrades into an "us and them" AD vs. AR/NG thing, what's sad about it, is that both sides have different, complementary strengths and weaknesses, which should, and have resulted in very good units.

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That was not my intent but I can see how that could be read. The NG guys that were cops, construction workers and EMT/Parametic in the civilian world are some of the best resources for current ops.

I am also shunning formal education and working on more goodly writing skills.

To keep the editorial balance, when I worked for CEXC as a civialian I was talking to a MSG(AD) in the TOC about leadership. He was aware of my military background. He was amazed that I still thought that I had to lead by example as an NCO. His opnion was that his guys "will do what they are told because (he) told them to do it" and that was it.

I will be limiting my military commitment because of soldiers like him.

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Originally Posted by selil

There is only one thing you can say to guys like that "You go first".

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I was thinking something like "Here's your stick...go check that field over there. You'll know you're done when you hear a loud boom.":D

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Originally Posted by Ranger94

...He was amazed that I still thought that I had to lead by example as an NCO. His opnion was that his guys "will do what they are told because (he) told them to do it" and that was it.

I will be limiting my military commitment because of soldiers like him.

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that guy and others like him drive more people out of the Armed Forces every year than should be tolerated...

I was a USMC L/Cpl in Viet. late 68 to Oct 69. Went to Army ROTC and got to B Co. 2/327 in 77. In early 78 we had a change of command with a newly promoted Cpt. G. He was already infamous for throwing his M16 25 feet up in the air and sticking the muzzle in the dirt, when he flunked the EIB test.
First thing he did was order the once a week company staff(Plt leaders and PSG's) meeting to go to every night M-F, starting at 6pm. Bn. had a staff meeting every night for company CO's starting at 5pm. Many the nights we waited for him till 8pm or later, kept our notebooks ready and went home over an hour later with no notes in the notebook.
Later as a civilian I was visiting an active duty friend at CGSC in the hallway outside the library. Surprise, heres comes Maj. G, and he immediatley remarked with no prompting, "I've changed". His next remark with no prompting was "I'm extended here for a year for the SAMMS course". Bet he's a general now. Golf Robert India Bravo Lima India Nora Golf. Wish I knew where he's at now. I think he was a VMI grad. class of 72.

fortunate (or unfortunate; choose one) No ....... Slack denizen. Good for you. "Above the Rest" and "Honor and Country" below the crest and all that. Clash of '66 here. :D

If that was Rick he was a COL in 01 according to Google.

No Slack,
Yep thats him.
Wonder what happened to B Co. 1st Sgt. Bossi? I heard he made SMG of one of the Corps in Germany in the 80's.
My excellent Bn. CO was Hugh T. O'Conner, anyone know what happened to him?
Had another Plt. leader with me named Bertolino, who was a grunt in B Co. in Viet..
Semper Fidelus and No Slack, whod a thunk it.
Tipy

In '07 I was an observer / adviser at a UK civil-military tabletop exercise, dominated by the Army, with a miltary aid to civil community theme, which evolved at the end to a miltary aid to civil power theme.

The brigadier wanted to deploy a small force (two platoons) to secure an objective, all the roads were snowblocked and the only four wheel drive vehicles were the ubiquitous Land Rover. Ah, says the logistic adviser, a major, under health and safety rules a Land Rover in snow can only carry two soldiers. Brigadier goes red and asks for confirmation of this crazy rule. Within minutes confirmed by our Ministry of Defence, two soldiers only in a Land Rover and they must wear seatbelts.

All this left me standing there bemused. What a situation for an Army to be in?

davidbfpo

to the Safety Officers assertion that driving vehicles with Protective Masks donned was unsafe...

Amazing what they can come up with.

Safety rules may be the greatest source of ridiculous stories.

In 2004, I was at NTC and an O-6 informed me that I was a sorry excuse for a leader because I did not care about the safety or welfare of my Soldiers. What was my crime? I was riding shotgun in a HMMWV, on post, at about 5 MPH. My driver and I were wearing seatbelts and helmets and we were even utilizing the ever-important ground guide as we drove across a relatively open patch of dirt with no obstructions or pedestrians. Each of us had our 2-quart canteens of water, which we were faithfully drinking and topping off on a regular basis. We were headed from the BLUFOR staging area across the street to the wash rack area.

It should help to underscore how slowly we were moving by pointing out that the Colonel came running after us from out of nowhere and caught up with the vehicle. He shouted, nearly out of breath, for the vehicle to stop, for my driver to turn off the engine, and for us to get out of the vehicle and "unscrew" ourselves before we moved another inch. I still have no idea who this Colonel was or what unit he was in. I had to go round and round with the Colonel, yes sirring and no sirring, as I attempted to figure out what it was that we were doing wrong. He was convinced that I was in on his secret and that I was simply playing dumb, but none of us had any idea what his panties were in such a bunch over. I took several guesses - was my ground guide supposed to wear a road guard vest? Should we have put our hazard lights on? Did I fail to notify someone about my one-vehicle convoy that would be traveling 100 meters in a garrison area?

Finally, he let us in on the secret: we were required to wear goggles, in addition to the other redundant/ridiculous safety measures that we had already succumbed to. It took tremendous concentration for me to refrain from rolling my eyes at such absurdity. But we gave one final "yes sir" and feigned respect for him. My driver and I then spent the next 10 minutes retrieving 3 sets of goggles while the ground guide "guarded" the vehicle, and then we were back on our way.

Now you all know why I have gray hair...

Wonder how many potentially good Officers that joker inadvertently (well, hopefully...) ran out of the Army. I'm becoming more convinced that the number of COL and CSM/SGM needs a long hard look; given their stated concerns, a lot of them seem to be underemployed. (Apologies to the many good one out there; you know who you are -- it's the others I have reference to -- and you know who they are...)

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Originally Posted by Schmedlap

Safety rules may be the greatest source of ridiculous stories.

In 2004, I was at NTC and an O-6 informed me that I was a sorry excuse for a leader because I did not care about the safety or welfare of my Soldiers. What was my crime?
*
But we gave one final "yes sir" and feigned respect for him. My driver and I then spent the next 10 minutes retrieving 3 sets of goggles while the ground guide "guarded" the vehicle, and then we were back on our way.

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I'm surprised he didn't demand you all wear full-body condoms and then swath yourselves in bubblewrap.
Safety First - even if you suffocate!

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Originally Posted by 120mm

I kid you not, the guy went away angry, that I couldn't make his paper copy change, via the computer. The good news: I get to work with this guy again.:eek:

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No doubt how the PTB deploy that nitwit.
http://www.theonion.com/content/file...69.article.jpg

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Originally Posted by AdamG

I'm surprised he didn't demand you all wear full-body condoms and then swath yourselves in bubblewrap.
Safety First - even if you suffocate!

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Hmmm. Sounds like what I endured in Bosnia. I recall doing a joint patrol with a Turkish platoon. They were wearing t-shirts and carrying no weapons (they put their weapons in one unarmored vehicle and locked it.) My platoon, in accordance with our highly complex force protection posture matrix was at (if I recall correctly) threat condition D-K-4. Maybe I am rearranging that number/letter combo, but we had some gigantic matrix of absurd guidelines symbolized with letters and numbers. A simple A through D threat condition or some confidence in the judgment of small unit leaders simply would not cut it.

While we walked alongside Turks in t-shirts, who were at ease with the locals and did not have a care in the world, we were hobbling along in body armor, helmets, full combat loads of ammunition (though we were forbidden from chambering a round), and protective masks. There were also requirements that we were to walk around with our weapons at the ready (but no round chambered, so we still looked friendly and approachable) and the Ground Forces Commander (O-6 billet) dictated our fire-team formations. They were to walk in a fire team wedge at all times (apparently, this formation is always appropriate).

It was a great place to operate. My job was made easy because every decision was made in advance by someone three or four echelons higher. The only thing left for me to worry about was how to alter the situation to fit their guidance. And if I was unable to alter the situation to fit their guidance, then my only task was to invent some fanciful rationalization to convey to my Soldiers, to assure them that their chain of command was not a bunch of boobs.

I just had a bunch of beer, and I am laughing my butt off over some staff Col dictating fire team formations.

Small wonder we are losing two wars. Not even the German Army was this crazy at having the general staff run every facet of WWII.

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Originally Posted by Ken White

fortunate (or unfortunate; choose one) No ....... Slack denizen. Good for you. "Above the Rest" and "Honor and Country" below the crest and all that. Clash of '66 here. :D

If that was Rick he was a COL in 01 according to Google.

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We all know who the best BN is in "Bastogne" BDE, Sir.

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Originally Posted by Schmedlap

Safety rules may be the greatest source of ridiculous stories.

In 2004, I was at NTC and an O-6 informed me that I was a sorry excuse for a leader because I did not care about the safety or welfare of my Soldiers. .

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This COL, another criminal perpetuator of the Army "Safety First, Mission and Common Sense last" culture, which I would argue, in many cases, has caused hundreds of deaths in Iraq because so many leaders are so obsessed with safety and "zero defects" that they will sacrifice the mission IOT "be safe". I'm obviously not a fan of the Army Safety culture...that is another Thread in itself!