Why do liberal professors hate the military?
Hi everyone:D
Thank you for replying to my post before on "appreciation for the military from civilians." I learned that you folks in uniform work in beauracries like those of us in academia, and also have to earn a living to buy bread and eat:o
I just started reading Gen. Petraeus's dissertation on "The American Military and the Lessons of Vietnam: A study of Military Influence and the Use of Force in the Post-Vietnam Era." Gen. Petraeus's is amazing in his scholarship and depth of knowledge, but what surprises me more is the sense of realism in his work. I noticed that people in the armed forces, at least from what I understand on this forum, are a lot of realistic, seeing reality for what it is, instead of seeming to live in their heads like those of us in academia.
I like what Petraeus said about "perceptions" people have of reality, instead of what reality really is or "objective reality." Why can't those of us in academia have a healthy dose of reality? I will be honest: if I speak out against the liberalism so prevalent in academia I would probably be shunned by my peers. I feel I can be far more honest with you folks on small wars journal, then my fellow academics.
I don't like living in my head. I want to see the world for what it is. Maybe that makes me strange compared to other academics:D Here is my question for you folks in uniform: the situations of Iraq and Afghanistan are clearly different than Vietnam. You guys in Afghanistan are trying to help the Afghan people rebuild their lives, so that the conditions that give rise to war are stopped. That is real social justice and caring. I read in Time magazine last week that Admiral Mike Mullen, the Joint Chiefs of Staff was trying to help the Afghan people establish farming.
Could you imagine my reaction!? An admiral of all people, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, this nation's highest ranked military officer works with the Afghan people himself and cares about them! Why don't we academics or civilians hear about this kind of thing? Why do liberal professors continue to cling to outdated ideas of the military from Vietnam, instead of understanding that the military wants to help people rebuild their lives? The example of Admiral Mike Mullen proves what real social justice is. Thoughts? Comments? Opinions?
Naomi
Along the lines of Hacksaw's story
I took several courses in Pol. Sci. from a very liberal professor in the early 70s. Our classroom "discussions" became famous within the department. But he graded me on mastery of facts and reasoning, and I got Bs in his courses.
On the other hand, I also had several professors (even back then) who graded on ... if not "ideological purity," then on whether my work demonstrated an ability to regurgitate what they said. Hard to tell the difference - especially when you get hammered for predicting the USSR won't last out the century. :D
As to the OP, along the lines of Bob's post, I've noticed in conversation with friends (yes, really) who are liberal/left academics, that they don't understand or relate to conservative values, and the military is nothing if not the embodiment of conservative values.
I should've said "shouldn't be..."
You're correct, of course. And, in fairness, the pendulum swings and what is demonized today will be probably be acceptable in a few years and versey vicea. :wry:
Shame your response was so accurate -- but it is. :o
I sort of understand what you're saying
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AmericanPride
...it is IMO not any different than general opinions expressed by military personnel about those who are perceived to not understand national service as it is packaged and sold by the military establishment.
and I acknowledge that occurs with some. Most who serve, though do not really accept that and fairly quickly come up with their own reasons for serving -- or not (and most of those get out). Members of different tribes always suspect and tend to dismiss non-members, goes with the human condition.
The issue, I think, is whether and how firmly tribal identity is accepted and espoused as opposed to particular accepted belief models, then it becomes a case of defending the tribe against all others. Regardless of logic...
That applies to Academics and Military people. Or Cops, Butchers, Pashtuns, Anishinabe and the local Chapter of the GLBTHS -- any grouping of people. Even religious and pacifist groups. :D
Oh -- and people are not precise...
Meeting with the military science professor...
Wow, I just read all the posts here everyone left after visiting that military science professor:D Okay, to Marc, I think I'm finally learning how to see in color:eek: Seeing in black and white is inconvienent. If there is one thing the UC system in California is good at, its mental masturbation, LOL, especially those of us on North Campus in the liberal arts. We are all theory, flying off in the mental realms of imagination all day long:) People on the South end of campus who are more applied, or in the hard sciences, really do seem more in touch with reality. A friend of mine who does engineering says to me "Of course your absent minded, you live on north campus, lol."
And to the anthropologists lurking here, hello.
Okay, visiting the military science professor. I will admit what was echoed by someone previously, people in uniform who tend to embody fighting have this effect on (liberal) academics, lol. I just experienced it. I was really nervous visiting him at first, cause I thought as a civilian, he would force me to get on a Black Hawk, or airplane and make me jump out in a parachute. I know he's taken an oath to upload and defend the constitution, especially to protect us civilians, but the uniform is scary, lol. I think I'd be less afraid of a fire fighter cause as a civilian I would be more used to them.
Even in the military science department, the ROTC cadets were entirely different from the rest of the civilian students at my school. When the assistant professor came in, they froze in posture and replied, "Yes, sir!" and "No, sir!" to the professor/army captain. I found this to be an interesting anthropological experience, studying the ROTC department. I felt alienated at first, odd that they behaved so rigidly, but after a few minutes the people there were friendly. There was an honestly about them in how they described the annoying people who hand out fliers. One of them said, "Yes, that is annoying, they act like **%$#."
I was really intimidated by the professor at first, but then he welcomed me to the department and told me to finish my lunch. However, when I was talking to him in his office, no one dared interupt him. Someone wrote down something with a post-it note and slapped it on his desk in a way that seemed very kinetic. After about 10 minutes, when he looked up information about civilian jobs in the military, I felt comfortable, he was very nice, upright and helpful. I gave him information about the art history department, since one of his cadets coming in will be majoring in art history.
Although it was really intimidating at first, I'm glad that I met him and I hope the information that I shared with him helped him as well. After meeting with him, I talked to this other undergraduate girl about my experience meeting with that professor. She said, "There's something about military guys that makes them very sexy, something about that uniform and their toughness makes them attractive. But they are also really scary cause they use guns."
I agreed with her. Also what she said echoed what was said earlier in this thread, that service personnel in uniform embody fighting/violence, which can be very scary to academics or those unfamiliar with it. But I learned that even people in uniform, when they are out of uniform, they become ordinary people with families, who have the same worries and problems as the rest of us:D Anyhow, this was an interesting experience. I'll try not to be scared of guys in uniform who are supposed to uphold and defend the Constitution.
Naomi