Efficacy of punitive strikes?
I have been curious about this lately. What does the noble Small Wars Council think of the idea of using punitive missions in the future, in place of "regime change" and "nation building"? How about we replace "regime change" with simple "regime removal", meaning get rid of the bad guy, and let the people sort it out.
Many who contribute to this board understand the 4GW concepts of lose-lose situations that the US is forced into by getting involved in places like Iraq and Afghanistan. If we lose, we lose. If we win, we lose, because we're bullies, beating up on the little guy, and no one likes a bully. So why not conduct Operation Iraqi Freedom I, and then leave? Is it our moral responsibility to clean up the mess we make? I would say no. I would say it's the responsibility of the people of a nation to get rid of leaders who get their country into unwinnable wars, like conventional fights against the US. Does the democracy we've installed in Iraq and Afghanistan ensure our safety? Obviously not. They can vote in hostile regimes, as some other countries have (Venezuela). I also dont buy the idea that people like Hussein were so brutal that the people couldnt beat him. The Americans couldnt beat the British Empire during our revolution either. I know there are a host of differences, but you get my basic idea.
We could spend 100 years in Iraq and maybe accomplish nothing. We could leave, and the people could turn right around and elect a hard-line Islamic government that openly supports terrorism. And I would completely support the process that put them in place. But we would be right back at square one: a hostile regime that is employing violence against Americans. And if they did that, it would be a clear message: "We, the Iraqi people, violently oppose the USA, and want to see it's downfall." Or something to that effect. And there's nothing wrong with that. If thats what they want, I only ask that they make it happen democratically. Either way, such choices come with a price. Is it wrong for us to pummel them for that choice, and then leave them to try again? I say it isnt. People have to choose for themselves. Does such an approach still make us a bully? Probably. But life's tough. Id like to beat up Chuck Norris, but we all know that's not gonna happen because he can make water boil just by looking at it. It would be a waste of time to try to change that fact. Are we just wasting our time in Iraq?
So, I propose an end to nation building and regime change. In it's place, I put forward the idea of regime removal and punitive attacks. And not a couple cruise missiles. I mean ground invasion. But once the battle is won and the regime is smashed, leave. And let the people of that nation fix what they perhaps should have fixed in the first place. Will they put the same government back in power? Maybe. But they'll think twice about violently opposing the US.
1...2...3...discuss!
Understandable and in Some Ways Doable
Thanks for an interesting post!
Direct strikes--whether limited or large scale--have their own cosequence sets. In many ways, Desert Storm was just that; set objective matched with containment afterward. Some have termed that a strategiic defeat, an argument I do not buy as the set end state was achieved and the spill over was contained.
Other examples are less clear in their results. Punitive expeditions are historically common; one can almost hear Kitchner assembling the Camel corps to march on Sudan. Take a look at Dan Reiter's paper "Preventative War and its alternatives: the Lessons of History.: It is avaliable on the SSI page for download athttp://www.strategicstudiesinstitute....cfm?PubID=651
On the issue of nation-buidling: I believe nation-building is doable if there is a "nation" (people that see themselves as a nation). But nation building in the absence of such a nation is a risk.
Another interesting article today on this subject was by Ed Luttwak. see number 51 on the early bird "Will Civil War Bring Lasting Peace To Iraq?" His point is quite simple: sometimes the people have to fight it out among themselves to set the conditions for peace. Here is an extract:
Quote:
CIVIL WARS can be especially atrocious as neighbors kill each other at close range, but they also have a purpose. They can bring lasting peace by destroying the will to fight and by removing the motives and opportunities for further violence.
England's civil war in the mid-17th century ensured the subsequent centuries of political stability under Parliament and a limited monarchy. But first there had to be a war with pitched battles and killing, including the decapitation of King Charles I, who had claimed absolute power by divine right.
The United States had its civil war two centuries later, which established the rule that states cannot leave the union — and abolished slavery in the process. The destruction was vast and the casualties immense as compared with all subsequent American wars, given the size of the population. But without the decisive victory of the Union, two separate and quarrelsome republics might still endure, periodically at war with each other.
Even Switzerland had a civil war — in 1847 — out of which came the limited but sturdy unity of its confederation. Close proximity, overlapping languages and centuries of common history were not enough to resolve differences between the cantons. They had to fight briefly, with 86 killed, to strike a balance of strength between them.
And so it must be with Iraq, the most haphazard of states, hurriedly created by the British after World War I with scant regard for its rival nationalities and sects. The sectarian hatred — erupting during the Saddam Hussein era and at full boil since his ouster — is now inflicting a heavy toll in casualties.
The key element that I find lacking in Luttwak's piece is that he does not account for the reality of the 21st Century Information Age. Like it or not, instant world wide media coverage is an element of modern war. How it plays depends on who is involved and where it is happening.
Finally I would say that regardless of current or future events, the word 'never" never works, whether one is swearing off regime changes or nation building or large scale armored warfare.
Best
Tom
Punitive expeditions and leaving a vacumn
Blackjack Pershing's Punitive Expedition into Mexico was hardly a ringing success, especially if you thinking capturing and/or killing Pancho villia was its primary purpose, since we never found him. What we basically proved is that if Mexican bandits raid New Mexico, US troops can raid Mexico.
One little side note on the expedition, was Patton's "mechanized" attack on a ranch house, i.e. he got there is an automobile, where they got some of the bad guys. He later leveraged this action into a leadership position in the new tank corps in World War I.
The problem with decapitation without regime change is that you leave a vacumn to be filled by the strongest war lord. In Afghanistan that turned out to be the Taliban who later hosted al Qaeda.
"Perdicaris alive or Rasuli Dead"
Punitive expeditions make sense if there is an entity which can be held accountable for the behavior of its troops, agents, citizens or whatever. The idea is to communicate that the costs of state irresponsibility are higher than the internal political benefits of winking and nodding at difficult to control elements.
Launching a punitive expedition where there is no one who can effect changes desired may or may not make strategic or tactical sense.
Now we're getting somewhere
Quote:
I'd nuke the hell outa the Great Satan, and resort immedietly to guerilla warfare.
All right. How many nukes would you deliver? With what delivery system? A speedboat to the US fleet offshore? Or a tugboat full of "refugees?"
And in what way do you resort to guerilla warfare? How do you prepare your nation and your government for a guerilla struggle? What military techniques, tactics and procedures do you lay down for the troops to follow?
No we are not getting anywhere
Mr. Jones it was widely reported that Iraqi genrals were recruited to either act on our behalf(allow troops to surrender) or agree to do nothing(don't destroy oilwells). Why cain't we do it in Iran? Anybody answer that would like.
The Other Punitive Expedtion
To my understanding the original objectives of OIF were no sadam,no WMD,Democratic framework installed. That has been done!! Why don't we seize and control the Oil facilities until they figure out THEIR politics. Cordon and protect the oil and get a share of the profits to pay america back!! I think if there is some positvie economic benefit to america from OIF support for a long term mission could be established or at least accepted. Every american understands oil prices and oil supplies, tie us military missions to this and maybe we have a chance. Yes /No/Maybe anybody respond.
And since no one else will Red Team this exercise...
Some possible counter tactics.
1) Global terrorism. There are Shiite communities throughout the Arab world - Iran is probably in touch with their dissidents even if Tehran doesn't support them. These communities would provide ready support for terrorism and sabotage through Saudi Arabia, for example.
2) Trouble in Iraq. Many Shiite militias (who are the most powerful group there, right now) have significant backing from Iran. With a porous border, the Iranians can run weapons and agents through there with no problem. Currently, Iraqi militias lack the will and equipment to fight US troops. Given a motivation, and more advanced RPG warheads, small arms ammunition and body armor they could prove a major threat to our troops in most of the country.
3) Preemptive strike. Our forces take months to build up to strenght. The Iranians could easily decide to launch a suicidal ground, air or naval assault figuring they have nothing left to lose. Such an assault wouldn't have to be targetted at our soldiers to screw us, either: the oil infrastructure in the region can't take that many cruise missiles to shut down.
4) Continuity of Government. They'd certainly put a plan in place to keep their government operational. Unlike Iraq, which was a dictatorship, they can put such a thing together. Iran is governed by an elected leadership with a broad base of support - they can have enough successors on hand that they can replace whatever Mullahs we do catch. Moreover, they'll make efforts to hide their people and protect them.
5) Infrastructure protection. Camouflage, Hardening, redundancy and reparability. We can fly a plane over anything and bomb it. But of course, first we have to find it. Then the bomb has to actually destroy it. They have to care about losing it. And they can't just fix it two days later. This applies to pretty much anything you can name.
6) Consolidation of Power. They're not going to let a lot of insurgents hide our in their own population. In the run up to war, the smart move is to neutralize these people by whatever means necessary, because they're certain allies of the invader. Likewise, you're going to purge your armed forces of any disloyal, unprofessional or unmotivated elements ahead of time. The lessons from Iraq and Afghanistan should be obvious.
7) Preparation for guerilla warfare. This involves teaching troops infantry, hit and run tactics, sabotage and tradecraft. It also involves caching weapons and supplies throughout the countryside and the cities. Sniper training is a big deal here - most armies don't focus on it the way they should.
8) Scorched earth. They may well decide to destroy anything that could be of use to us. The road nets in and out of the country probably aren't good to begin with - once the enemy takes to them with everything from bulldozers to sledgehammers you're going to find the fuel, ammo and rations necessary for high intensity maneuver war a lot harder to supply.
9) Preparation for the latest US ground technology. Old style (single warhead) RPGs don't reliably get effects on US ground vehicles. Newer tandem warhead models are effective against Bradley Fighting Vehicle and Stryker with slat armor. Steel core AK-47 rounds can't penetrate Interceptor with SAPI. The ammo that can is a little hard to improvise or get ahold of, but not impossible. It wouldn't take much of this stuff in the right hands to make their snipers highly dangerous. Night vision gear is handy stuff, too. Older generation gear isn't as effective as what US troops use, but its main purpose is to show soldiers (in training) the kind of thing they're up against.
10) Preparation of citizen militias. These groups are there to help you regain control after US forces leave. Their job isn't so much to fight back, as to prevent whatever cheapass native forces we leave in place from being a problem later. Factional fighting won't happen if you murder all the factions anyway. They can also suicide bomb our troops on the side.
11) Evacuation of key personnel. What happens to your brilliant plan if half the Mullahs turn up in Moscow or Beijing? You think the Russkies will hand them right over? You think we'll invade Red China to get them? Or would you rather stick around and nation build in Iran to keep them from coming right back in. Hey, why stop at the Mullahs? Ten thousand Revolutionary Guards could suddenly go on leave in the third party country of your choice. What then? If they picks folks with clean backgrounds, who've never been implicated in any kind of war crime, they could even vacation in Europe!
That's eleven steps I'd recommend - and any one of them could throw a real kink in our plans for a short victorious war.
Hey, I'm your Huckleberry
I'll play blue team. My backround 3 years 82nd airborne,2 special assignments with 5th Special Forces. Semi-retired Police Officer. Went to college for a little while,fell asleep alot. Should take you 10 minutes to win. I fight unconventionally you do what ever you want. Keep it civil nothing personal learning experience for all. Deal?? I am work now may not be able to respnd fast.