If true, a report entitled 'Double drug-rape disgrace of CIA’s top agent in Algeria' and I can only assume the USA will not extradite their own to Algeria, not good PR - being blunt: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle5733513.ece
davidbfpo
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If true, a report entitled 'Double drug-rape disgrace of CIA’s top agent in Algeria' and I can only assume the USA will not extradite their own to Algeria, not good PR - being blunt: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle5733513.ece
davidbfpo
If these allegations can be proven in a court of law, you are correct in your guesstimation. I am chronically distrustful, however, of the media, particularly THE TIMES who are so timid as to not even use the term "terrorists."
I am a co-founder and past state chairman of the Chuck Colson Prison Ministry Fellowship here in our state. Islamic religious conversions among minorities in our prisons here have been very unhelpful, to put it mildly. The Malcom X "types" seem the outcome hereabouts.
Warmer weather here for tomorrow's Mercedes Charity Marathan, which we have two young adult children running in.
Hope UK snows have abatted, along with the flooding that news this week mentioned was ensuing.
And, I hope the news there turns out to be mere yellow journalism, but time and a proper investigation will tell the tale. Never underestimate the growing sophistication in media psyops "manipulation" by the terrorists and their "fellow travelers." Be good if this allegation can be slapped down publicly and quickly.
Cheers.
It seems to be an accurate report, sadly.Quote:
Originally Posted by davidbfpo
I, too, hope this is untrue. My only hope is that the guy couldn't possibly be that stupid. I mean, how could a CIA station chief not know any better than to leave the evidence of such a ridiculous crime on his computer? If he actually took the time buy a book on how these crimes are solved, you'd think that he put some thought into hiding or destroying evidence.
We all have to wait to know the facts. You in Canada nor I in the US know what has happened, if anything other than a psyops melodrama intended to smear the CIA fellow, over in Algeria.
Heresay is not how any of our democracies work. This we can publicly agree on until the hard facts are known one way or the other.
In such times of the worldwide war on terrorism any media tricks or misrepresentations are going to be tried by the terrorists.
Lying about anything was and remains an everyday characteristic of the poor, undereducated portions of the world where I served which happen to be Islamic...I was both in SW Asia as well as in North Africa during my younger years.
George, in this case you are making more assumptions and knee-jerk judgments than is the news media. Hell, it wasn't the media that initiated these accusations - they just reported it when it leaked. The story was broken by ABC News at the end of January, not The Times - which is just repeating it now that AQIM is exploiting the story with their particular slant. ABC also somehow acquired and made available online the affidavit for a search warrant in this case.Quote:
Originally Posted by George L. Singleton
And even if the accusations of rape turn out to be unfounded, it is clear that this guy engaged in activities that were just plain stupid, given his position. In no uncertain terms he compromised himself and he's an embarrassment to the Agency. What remains to be seen is whether he is found to be a criminal in a court of law, or merely an idiot who thinks with the other head. No matter how it turns out, its a propaganda victory for the bad guys - and its Warren's fault, no one else's.
The sad thing is, over the years I have observed several professionals experienced in an intelligence or security field that should have taught them better, willfully engage in self-destructive behaviors. All of them did this in a sloppy manner in which they appeared to have forgotten how they had been trained to detect when bad guys tried to hide or engage in deception to conceal their own behaviors. Almost all were of a sexual nature.Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmedlap
I am somewhat surprised by the rush to factual judgement by anyone on this very good website, SWJ, who is not in possession of any legal facts nor are any of us a part of ant formal investigation.
My comments, carefully read, say I certainly hope this is untrue and until proven otherwise, in a court of law, it is merely an allegation, no matter what ABC, the TIMES, you guys, or anyone else says. Saying something, repeating something does not create a single legal fact.
Allusions to experiences of others in the intel field is petty cheap shotting as well.
We are all on the same team, that of democracy and the American, UK, and Canadian way(s) of life, until we die, and no depression or worldwide economic crisis, nor terrorism, will change that to or for me until I breath my last.
You and I speak as we choose to on this form only because our basic democratic free speech principles are protected by our past and others current service to our nations. This includes not just us uniform wearers but the CIA, the FBI, Scotland Yard, the Canadian Mounties, et al.
I will wait to see what a court of law decides, and believe nothing true until it is absolutely proved, allegations and so called leaked evidence not withstanding. We don't yet try Americans, white or black, in the media, nor on a website, nor in either the US or overseas media, including the LONDON TIMES.
LawVol, if you are around I wonder if you could comment on the possibility of extradition to Algeria.Quote:
Originally Posted by davidbfpo
the probability of extradition to Algeria is virtually nil. Here are the relevant allegations from the search warrant affidavit:
The special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States creates a situation where the crime is punishable as though it occured in the US.Quote:
5. I am advised that 18 U.S.C. ' 2241(b)(2) makes it a crime to administer to another person by force or threat, or without the knowledge or permission of that other person, a drug intoxicant, or other similar substance and thereby substantially impair the ability of that other person to appraise or control conduct and then to engage in a sexual act with that other person, if the conduct occurred in the special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States. I am further advised that 18 U.S.C. ' 2242 makes it a crime to engage within the special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States in a sexual act with another person if that other person is incapable of appraising the nature of the conduct or is physically incapable of declining participation in, or communicating unwillingness to engage in, that sexual act.
6. I am also advised that with respect to offenses committed by a United States citizen, 18 U.S.C. ' 7(9) defines the term “special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States” to include residences in foreign States and the land appurtenant or ancillary thereto, irrespective of ownership, used for purposes of United States Government missions or entities or used by United States personnel assigned to those missions or entities.
The sentence under 2241 & 2242 is "any term of years or life" - links here.
Also, if the accused were under diplomatic cover (can't really tell from the affidavit), he would have diplomatic immunity in Algeria - but not here.
I'd wait for the indictment before getting too dogmatic about the procedure, much less the merits of the case - he admits the sex, not the crime.
Since Mr. Warren has been recalled to the US, whatever diplomatic immunity he may have had, has probably gone by the boards. Hopefully, Mr. Warren is being watched very closely - so that he does not leave the country until this mess is resolved.
A DoS chart on diplomatic immunity is here.
In the ABC story, cited by Ted, the DoJ stated the case would be submitted to a grand jury in the next few weeks.
Spies, rufies and compromising photos? Sounds like the Russians to me.
They have been making inroads in Africa, and Algeria in particular of late. Why not further advance your interests in Africa, by stirring up public opinion against America with a scandal like this.
The Russians have a psychotropic substance called SP-117, two drops of it into a drink and a person loses all control, give the antidote and they come back minutes later not remembering a thing. This is the substance that some believe was given to Russian Presidential candidate Ivan Rybkin in 2004.
In all seriousness, though I wouldn’t put something like that past the Russians, here is a take from Robert Baer:
The CIA Scandals: How Bad a Blow?, By Robert Baer. Time.com, Feb. 03, 2009.
jmm99, as Station Chief he would be under diplomatic cover.Quote:
The system is supposed to filter these people out, or at least catch them early on in their careers. Certain press reports have described Warren as a talented, aggressive officer, but some people who knew him considered him reckless and impulsive. I am told that he barely got through training, and it was recommended that he be permitted to work only under close supervision. The warnings apparently were ignored because of pressure on the CIA after 9/11 to put more people in the field.
And none of this is to mention that it was a serious mistake to send Warren to Algeria, a country that elected an extremist Islamic government and has absolutely no tolerance for rape. By the way, the fact that Warren, who had converted to Islam and is said to speak Arabic fluently, reportedly went to a mosque in Algeria to look for sources was an amateurish ploy that could only have drawn suspicion on him.
more likely than not; except there has been no formal acknowledgment that he was the agency's chief of station (nothing unusual in that). Whether he had diplomatic immunity in Algeria would depend on where he showed up on the diplomatic list.Quote:
from Bourbon
jmm99, as Station Chief he would be under diplomatic cover
A reverse honey trap[*] ? Who knows in that wilderness of mirrors; but often the more mundane (and less complicated) explanation is the more likely.
Bad PR, and in combo with the revived Nicholson (father and son) case, a reminder that the Chekists are still with us. However, Bob Baer has some sound advice (after your quotes from him):
[*] Let's parse this. Warren is into seduction. Cheka sets him up with two of its agents, whom it then drugs by whom and by what means ? A simpler explanation is that Cheka has two of its agents claim rape (falsely). Not a great disinformation plot - since Warren would do exactly what he is doing - admitting the sex, but not the crime.Quote:
Still, don't make the mistake of giving these cases importance that they don't deserve. Or worse, don't jump to the conclusion that the CIA is overrun with misfits. CIA employees are still some of the most closely and routinely scrutinized workers in government. They endure regular and intrusive security background checks and polygraphs. Also, the CIA has a history of cleaning up its own messes. It was the CIA that caught Nicholson, as it did the notorious KGB mole Aldrich Ames.
And the fixes are easy. In Nicholson's case, move him to the supermax federal prison in Florence, Colo., and keep him there in isolation for the rest of his life. As for Warren, if guilty, indict, try and send him to prison. It would go a long way in undercutting the outrage in Algeria.
Let's wait for the indictment.
Case closed - ending with just a couple of paragraphs in today's news: Ex-CIA official gets 65 months in prison for assault
Quote:
....A federal judge in Washington, D.C., handed down the prison sentence of 65 months for Andrew Warren, who pleaded guilty last year to illegal sexual contact after rendering the woman unconscious in 2008.
The CIA fired Warren in 2009 before he was charged in federal court with sexually assaulting the unidentified woman.
U.S. District Judge Ellen Huvelle also ordered that Warren, 43, be placed on 10 years of probation after completing his prison term and that he must register as a sex offender.
Warren also pleaded guilty to cocaine use while possessing a semi-automatic pistol last year in Norfolk, Virginia...