I lived and worked there for a couple of years.
that was over 30 years ago but I still see and correspond with friends and acquaintances there and from there and know little has changed.
I believe the analysis significantly understates the various differences in attitude. The reactions cited are IMO quite prevalent and endemic throughout the ME and are generally correct without regard to class and apply to many, not all, who have obtained degrees in the west.
The military aspects of the behavior patterns are not to be discounted; exaggerating (or minimizing) in reporting, deferring to social if not military seniors, appointments based on who one knows instead of what one knows plus several others all have an impact on military performance.
Watching the region as best possible for a great many years,
I have come to the conclusion that no westerner will ever be an 'expert' on the ME and particularly on the more subtle cultural nuances that are endemic. I agree with much written by Bernard Lewis and some written by Juan Cole -- I also disagree with them on some points. My contention is that we all view the area and its people through the prism of our western cultural upbringing and thus gain a distorted view and that degree of distortion varies based on the prism each of has embedded as well as the length of time and depth of exposure to the total culture as opposed to a specific strata or locale of that culture.
For example, Rex says:
Quote:
"This is not to say, of course, that there aren't important cultural traits and tendencies--there are. But they vary by class, age, location, and education far more than the piece credits."
True in any society -- and true of any outsider viewing another society. I also agree with Marc, "Face" is not a good word for the cultural impacts highlighted by the CIA 'analysis' (which, like many of their analyses, is flawed on several levels IMO). It is far deeper and more pervasive than that.
He adds:
Quote:
"Having studied the region my entire professional career, and having worked both in the Arab world and with many, many Arab colleagues, I simply don't find the generalizations fit in any way that is useful. I've found no greater propensity to lie, for example--a centerpiece of the analysis."
Agreed. I'd go further; in my experience most Muslims are less prone to lying than are most Christians. However, most Muslims also have different -- not wrong, just different -- standards of both accuracy and personal accountability which can have the effect of seeming to be less than honest in the western sense.
Bakshish, a word known throughout the area (and a practice followed there and elsewhere) is a Persian word and those Persians at one time ruled the entire area for centuries. They believe there are two people in everyone, the zaher and the batin -- the public and the private and these can be two quite different personalities. The public personality is ruled by Ta'arof and is firmly inculcated with politeness which means people should be told what they want to hear. Most in the ME believe that to dissemble for personal or family gain is not a lie, it is an absolute and moral requirement. There are significant differences in our cultures, not wrong -- just different.
Folks in the ME are very proud – but the degree of fight they will show is predicated on who is in the audience. If a resident of the ME is accosted, he will scan for an audience, if there is none or there is no one he knows present, he will grovel. This is not seen as dishonorable, only sensible. OTOH, if he sees someone he knows slightly, he is likely to bluster but may still cave in; if he sees a family member he will fight.
A more critical aspect of the culture, one that impacts on diplomacy and warfighting is that the National Sport throughout the ME is Haggling. Any concession is viewed as a weakness and to be exploited. That factor deserves considerable thought...
The CIA effort is mildly flawed but IMO it is not totally out to lunch. It unduly simplifies many aspects, no question, however I believe it understates rather than overstates.
Slapout will appear momentarily and counseling will begin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rank amateur
Reminds me of Alabama. I've never had a knife shoved in my back more politely than in Alabama.
I've noticed that happens when folks come down South from up North. People in the South can be so doggone oversensitive to the slightest hint of anything even bordering patronization and suffer from their dogged (no pun intended) determination to get even... :D
Not to worry, NavForNorth will
be at Great Lakes while MarForNor will be colocated here (LINK) [conjecture on my part but as logical as the others]. Something for everyone, the American way.
I have ordered a pot for Slap from Amazon and it should be delivered in time for the book signing. Please, no applause -- it's the least I can do for an old paratrooper.
And an old author... :D
No, no -- No, don't cancel it...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marct
I'll go ahead and cancel that order for Depe..... Oooooops! :p
:eek:
With those, neither signings nor pool games need be interrupted for inconsequentials... ;)
Enjoy. Your turn will come.
Gives you at least one thing to look forward to... :D
If thats all I have to look forward to
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ken White
Gives you at least one thing to look forward to... :D
Then I think I'm going to work harder at being retrospective from now on
:D